Children and Transition-A Discussion

We're moving closer to the medical community authenticating a transgender diagnosis in children via the DSM5 next spring, which will utilize the Gender Straight Jacket as a measuring tool on "normal" sexed behaviour. Granted there are already a few children who have exhibited behaviour that dared to reached beyond the confines of the GSJ and instead of praising them as rebels have been instead diagnosed with the Trans disorder (GID). And some of these children via their parents/doctors are being treated for GID by a combination of acquiescing to the child's confusion as well as placing them on hormone blockers.

Not that I put much stock in the homophobic Male Medical Machine, BUT even they have stated that nearly all children diagnosed with GID if left alone and made not to feel ashamed of their differences will grow up to be well adjusted gay and lesbian adults. The huge word in that sentence is IF! My question to the reader is given that a tick box diagnosis will be applied via the publishing of the DSM5 in a few short months, and given that that authentication will give doctors the legal rights to transition the child of any homophobic parent and, given that nearly every single child that is diagnosed with GID will grow up to be gay or lesbian, should quashing the legal medical legitimacy of GID and its barbaric treatment become the center piece for gay and lesbian politics replacing the current cornucopia of gay marriage?
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  1. Numbers I have seen indicate 60% become gay/lesbian about 30% gender nonconforming straight and the remainder are trans.

    Still, most will not transition.

    The idea of check boxs for a diagnosis instead of close interpersonal interaction with the therapist is a crime. You or I could be a psychologist with a simple check list diagnosis. The idea of working hard and doing indepth mental evaluation and psycological screening is gone, replaced with pre-boxed ready to deliver fast food mentality in the psychological world now.
    Many many children will fall victim to a diagnosis they should not recieve.

    Only about 10% of these children will transition if left to their own devices. With the new and upcoming system I think Lynn is right that many children will be button holed into a transsexual diagnosis.

    By the way: I am a transsexual.
    I may not agree with Lynn on the 'all transition is wrong' point of view. But I do think that when she says the gender straight jacket and a misguided medical comunity are sending way to many people to the surgeons ofice she is right. When some counsiling and investigation into what informs our feelings would be more in order than medical intervention.

    Investigate you're psyche and soul before you make any changes to your body.

  2. "...nearly all children diagnosed with GID if left alone and made not to feel ashamed of their differences will grow up to be well adjusted gay and lesbian adults."

    This is just poorly researched. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with whether or not someone identifies as trans.

    I've met plenty of individuals who have transitioned from female to male and are attracted to males and vice versa. This would mean that, if left alone and not allowed to medically transition, they would have grown up to be straight adults.

    That is, if they manage to grow up and don't commit suicide because blogs like this are telling them that they are confused and that the transition they seek is barbaric instead of approaching them from a point of compassion or an attempt at understanding.

  3. Anonymous,

    But these surveys of gender-variant children are bringing in a few people who do grow up trans, and a lot of people who don't grow up trans, and most of the latter grow up gay.


  4. Dirt, what makes you think thatall psychiatrists do is "tick-box diagnosis". I myself had 3 months of constant private therapy before even seeing my GP and then went through a second process with another 2 psychiatrists. If you think it is that easy to be diagnosed then you are wrong.

  5. Um....
    I was diagnosed after 2 visits. I had no intensive questionnaires, no in depth analysis of my family history, no in depth plumbing of my psyche.
    First she did the basic check box psychology. Literaly going down the list of symtpoms in the WPATH guide asking me if I had these various red flags. Any one who studies trans naratives could have given her the answers that would have resulted in a transgender diagnosis. After I was diagnosed we moved on to other topics.
    We talked about my spirituality and the potential hurdles transition would present.

    Never one time was my resolve to transition questioned or was I asked anything about my sexual orientation, motives to transition or why I could not live in my birth sex.

    Luckily, I had already done all the mental work and self examinations. But my therapist didn't know that and it was never even brought up.

    I did my needed 3 months of 'therapy' for my HRT letter and then another 9 months to get my surgery letters.

    Luckily, I am very happy with the changes and my transition. But if I had been a regretor I would certainly be very upset with my gender therapist. She is still working with the local transgender population. I worry some day she is going to green light someone who just needed some therapy.

    Dirt is not right 100%. No one is, but she is right on this if we modify the belief set a tiny amount and allow that there are a limited amount of cases that transition is the only answer. When we look at the GSJ she talks about it is very obvious. When she talks about male gaze harming young women, it is obvious. When she rails on about the MMM profiting from the trans comunity, one only need look and see she is right.

    To agree with Lynn is hard for me a transsexual to do. But I can not lie. I see what she is talking about clear as day in most of the transgenders. Young women are runing to transition to avoid being women. There are psychologists who are more than willing to give out the diagnosis these kids want. Then the surgeons are more than willing to also profit.

    I spent many many years in deep meditation and soul searching before I made my move to transition. Transition is not a fun thing. It is painful and soul altering.

  6. You can't agree with Dirt 100%. Okay.

    What percentage don't you agree with? The part where she accuses us of being child molesters? The part where she claims we are all depressed and suicidal? How about the part where she claims we are rapists of lesbians? That we are pathological liars. That our female partners are child molesters. That we are bringing AIDS into the clean lesbian community. That we are incapable of having loving, lasting relationships and will die alone and suffering. That none of us pass. That people who call us "he" are just humoring us. That testosterone "causes" cancer. What else do I need to dredge up here?

    I initially came to this blog looking to have meaningful, useful conversations about how transmen can responsibly deal with male privilege. I thought I would find people who believe we transition just for that male privilege, and I did. But I also found people who are sick with hatred for us. Women who would rather believe *any* shitty lie about us than believe any single good truth. Women who can't wait for us to die from hormones, so they can "sit back and watch the show". And Dirt, whose "love" for women somehow justifies her filthy hate- vomit of lies about us. Whose self-aggrandizement and martyrdom-complex sound more like Anders Breivik than the writings of any of the real activists I know.

    Are you afraid that transition won't be painful enough for these youngsters? That they might be believed initially, rather than have someone try to force them to be lesbians, or try to refute their transness? Is transition some sort of cultural equivalent of the Lakota Sundance? Should we have more painful rituals before we are "allowed" to become men? I admit that my character was somewhat built through my trials, but I'm not sure I want anyone else to suffer in the same way just because they are trans. Becoming an adult in this world is daunting enough without having your fundamental identity fucked with, especially by people with such an intense emotional investment in you being "like" them. What if it's not that special to be trans? what if it's WAY more common than we thought? Given the evidence that gestational hormones are having dramatic effects on bodies and identities, it might be much simpler than we think. I'd err on the side of letting people choose. Transition is not a tragedy unless you are a lesbian who has to grieve for the loss of her "people" who were never actually hers in the first place.

  7. "This is just poorly researched. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with whether or not someone identifies as trans."

    Is this individual referring to sexual orientation and gender non-conformity? By trans, does this person mean gender non-conforming behavior?

    While it's true that sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things, scientists and researchers have known for some time that a large percentage of effeminate boys and tomboyish girls if left alone do, indeed, grow up to be gay men and lesbians. Perhaps not all, but a large percentage do. That is, unless they are chemically and surgically castrated. First, compared to twenty or thirty years ago, children are being labeled GID or transgender at much earlier ages. Second, with puberty suppressing drugs, transitioning can start when children are pre-teens.

    “Homosexual adults tend to be more gender nonconforming than heterosexual adults in some of their behaviors, feelings, and interests. Retrospective studies have also shown large differences in childhood gender nonconformity, but these studies have been criticized for possible memory biases. The authors studied an indicator of childhood gender nonconformity not subject to such biases: childhood home videos. They recruited homosexual and heterosexual men and women (targets) with videos from their childhood and subsequently asked heterosexual and homosexual raters to judge the gender nonconformity of the targets from both the childhood videos and adult videos made for the study. Prehomosexual children were judged more gender nonconforming, on average, than preheterosexual children, and this pattern obtained for both men and women. This difference emerged early, carried into adulthood, and was consistent with self-report. In addition, targets who were more gender nonconforming tended to recall more childhood rejection.

    (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

    As our analyses demonstrated for both men and women, research has firmly established that homosexual subjects recall substantially more cross-sex-typed behavior in childhood than do heterosexual subjects."
    According to my,

    "Most children with gender dysphoria will not remain gender dysphoric after puberty. Children with persistent GID are characterized by more extreme gender dysphoria in childhood than children with desisting gender dysphoria. With regard to sexual orientation, the most likely outcome of childhood GID is homosexuality or bisexuality."
    An article in the Atlantic states,
    The most extensive study on transgender boys was published in 1987 as The “Sissy Boy Syndrome” and the Development of Homosexuality. For 15 years, Dr. Richard Green followed 44 boys who exhibited extreme feminine behaviors, and a control group of boys who did not... Green expected most of the boys in the study to end up as transsexuals, but nothing like that happened. Three-fourths of the 44 boys turned out to be gay or bisexual (Green says a few more have since contacted him and told him they too were gay). Only one became a transsexual. “We can’t tell a pre-gay from a pre-transsexual at 8,” says Green, who recently retired from running the adult gender-identity clinic in England. “

  8. A science daily article says,
    "Research which follows these children to adulthood shows that between 50 to 80 per cent of gender nonconforming boys become gay, and about one third of such girls become lesbian"


    Since children are being diagnosed with GID at much earlier ages, and with puberty suppressing drugs “transitioning” can start before kids hit puberty, perhaps we need to ask some rather uncomfortable questions. In order to diagnosis and support the few children who really might be “gender dysphoric” and might benefit from later “transitioning”, how many future gay men and lesbians are we willing to chemically and surgically castrate?

  9. "Are you afraid that transition won't be painful enough for these youngsters?"

    Yes, surgery is quite painful, and no surgery is completely risk free.

    The word "transition" has always fascinated me. How in the heck did what amounts to multiple surgeries and a life time of cross gender hormones came to be known as "transitioning"?
    Doesn't "transitioning" mean:

    (1.) Possibility of puberty suppressing drugs to halt normal adolescent development
    (2.) As to FTMs, (the surgical removal of both healthy breasts)
    (3.) A life time of testosterone
    (4.) Possible surgical removal of uterus and ovaries thus making this person sterile
    (5.)The surgical alteration of female genitals, and the creation of a "penis" that will never function exactly like a penis on a biological male.

    "Is transition some sort of cultural equivalent of the Lakota Sundance? Should we have more painful rituals before we are "allowed" to become men?"

    I certainly don't want anyone to suffer pain. Why do people have to suffer? I don't know where this strange statement came from? As a Native American, I'm offended by the reference to the Sun Dance. Moreover, I'm not aware of any tribe that gave puberty suppressing drugs to their children. Two spirit people did exist, but they weren't given puberty suppressing drugs as children, surgically castrated, or given chemicals on a routine basis.

    "Transition is not a tragedy unless you are a lesbian who has to grieve for the loss of her "people" who were never actually hers in the first place."

    This is my question. Unless we can say with all certainty that no woman ever lives to regret "transitioning" (surgery and testosterone for life) isn't this just another form of the mutilation of the female body? Unless we can say that cultural and family influences play no role whatsoever in "transitioning", isn't this just another form of the mutilation of female bodies? This isn't just about lesbians. It's about all women because the various forms of mutliation of the female body is certainly nothing new. It has existed throughout recorded history.

    There are some rather profound issues that trans activists constantly dance and dart around. The first issue that trans activists don't want to touch relates to the mutilation of healthy female bodies, and the actual erasing of female identity. The second issue deals with erasing gay and lesbian identity. Should all little tomboys be forced to take puberty suppressing drugs followed by testosterone, then have their females bodies surgically altered to scrape away female identity via a surgeon's scalpel? If these surgically created 'transmen' are attracted to women, then they outwardly appear heterosexual. Isn't this what society has wanted all along... happy heterosexual appearing couples.

  10. Um....
    I was diagnosed after 2 visits. I had no intensive questionnaires, no in depth analysis of my family history, no in depth plumbing of my psyche…Never one time was my resolve to transition questioned or was I asked anything about my sexual orientation, motives to transition or why I could not live in my birth sex..

    I feel compelled to answer this post. I was a tomboy when I was young. At least, this is what my parents called me. Indeed, I probably was the roughest tomboy on the block. I liked to play baseball with my brother, and I loved romping through the woods. At seven years of age, I probably was tougher than seven year old Chris at Trans Kids Purple Rainbow, I mostly wore boy’s clothes, and I probably could hit a ball farther than Chris. So, here is my question. Was I a tomboy, or did I have “gender identity disorder”? Were my parents negligent for not dragging me to a therapist?

    “This is Chris. His mom is Mary. Chris is a 13 year old female to male transboy. He transitioned when he was 12.

    Here is an excerpt from a poem he wrote when he was 12:

    “One day I will pass as a boy 100%, that day is a ways from now. But I will just have to wait until then, that will happen eventually and I will wait forever if I have to. I will go through anything just to be who I really am” – Chris, age 12”

    “Chris started last year as “Grace” and “she”. I had thoughts over the years that he may be transgender as he always dressed in boys clothes and “acted” like a boy. BUT I as most people figured he was just a “tomboy.” I really thought thought that he might be transgender when at around 7 years old. He said “Mom, I am supposed to be a boy would you care if I had sex change surgery when I was older?”

    According to this article, Chris asked about sex change surgery at around seven years old. I find it very difficult to believe seven year old kids have any understanding of sex change surgery.

    FACT: If Chris is a genetic female, Chris will never be 100% male. Perhaps someone should tell Chris this.

    FACT: Chris is already being referred to as “he” or “him”.
    By repeatedly referring to little genetic females as “he” or “him” at around seven years of age, doesn’t this just reinforce gender identity disorder?

    Greg & Jeanette are the proud parents of four children, Arial age 16, identical twins Sander & Griffen age 14, and Jazz age 11, who is their transangel. Jazz was born with Gender Identity Disorder, and diagnosed at age 3.
    How is it possible to diagnose “gender identity disorder” in three year old children?

    In this Washington Post video, the parents are already calling this five year old “transgender” girl “he”. Again, doesn’t this just reinforce the “gender identity” disorder?

  11. I don't care what anyone says, the diagnosis of "gender identity disorder" in five or six year old children is problematic. I wonder how much of GID is influenced by parental behavior, shame, disgust, or unease at having an effiminate boy who doesn't like sports, or a little girl who doesn't like dresses and won't play with dolls.

    To me, puberty suppressing drugs for "gender identity disorder" smacks of child abuse. As long as humans have walked upon the earth, adolescence has been a part of human development. Trans has turned this on its head all in the name of "gender identity disorder".

    Every week or so, Dirt has videos of teens from 14 to 17 years of age talking about "transitioning" and "T" (testosterone). These kids no doubt feel that they are different, but one thing is certain. They don't have the capacity to carefully analyze and weigh their options.

    "Maturation of the Prefrontal Cortex

    The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals.
    The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do.

    The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:

    •Focusing attention
    •Organizing thoughts and problem solving
    •Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
    •Considering the future and making predictions
    •Forming strategies and planning
    •Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
    •Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
    •Impulse control and delaying gratification
    •Modulation of intense emotions
    •Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
    •Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information

    "This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex."


    If the brain is only about 80% developed in adolescents AND THE PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX (JUDGMENT CENTER OF THE BRAIN) ISN'T COMPLETELY MATURE UNTIL THE EARLY TWENTIES, then how can people honestly say that teenagers are capable of making rational decisions about their health? Some "gender dysphoric" teenagers are already on puberty suppressing drugs. T

  12. Anon at 2:26,

    So you are saying if someone says some things that are detestable that everything they say is detestable? That there is no way they can be right on any single thing?

    I know Dirt is wrong as rain in the Sahara in August but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If we can not admit that every once and awhile we agree with the other side, we are not displaying true matureity and humanity. It is when we agree with our opponents that we have a chance at peace.

    Yes, on this Lynn is right. Diagnosing gender dysphoric children bassed on a check list is wrong and will lead to a number of mistakes. I understand that there are genuine trans people who need to transition, but damn it; not every child who displays the symptoms is trans. Most are not trans and will become gay or bisexual. Hell, some even may become breeders. But none of them will have a chance at parenthood and children of their own blood if they are sterilized as children. None of them will have a chance to see if they can over come their issues if they are all just diagnosed as trans at a tender age.

    anon from 1:33

  13. WOW Anon who had THREE whole months of therapy! Is this a joke??? Indepth therapy takes years, not months. And currently there is no therapy that works at helping females who hate their bodies. Its not profitable to help women love themselves, would put shrinks, big pharma, plastic surgeons ect right out of business.



  14. "If we can not admit that every once and awhile we agree with the other side, we are not displaying true matureity and humanity. It is when we agree with our opponents that we have a chance at peace."

    Yes, I understand that one must accept truth where it is found, but Dirt does not grasp that, or she would not be lying about transpeoples' lives. If she accepted truth, she would not have to lie about us to get her point out there. In this sense, she embodies the most cowardly and detestable of all classes of humans. She does not represent the "other side" of anything for me. She represents a disgusting, lying, creep who is filled with rage, and that rage is misdirected at a vulnerable population.

    I understand there is going to feminist pushback about transition. Strategically, they are going to have to use better tools than vilifying us, because that will just make us louder and stronger as "victims". Duh. She'll make martyrs out of us, and become the face of transphobia, thereby justifying more support for transition without scrutiny. We are sick to death of being "doubted" by some, when we are accepted by the world at large, at face value. Given the set of circumstances, I'd say she's doing our work for us.

  15. Dirt did you not read the part that said that after the 3 months therapy, that 2 further psychiatrists had to be seen? Obviously not because you only read the parts that make your point not the whole picture.

  16. "? If these surgically created 'transmen' are attracted to women, then they outwardly appear heterosexual."

    I wonder when the shaming of heterosexual women for not being attracted to those "males" (lol) begins.
    Cotton Ceiling 2.0

    I also wonder why I've never seen that supporters of these threatments talked about the children who are gay. I mean even if they "simply can go back" there are possible long term risks.

  17. "Transition is not a tragedy unless you are a lesbian who has to grieve for the loss of her "people" who were never actually hers in the first place. "

    What makes people think that only little tomboys who might grow up to be dreaded bull dyke lesbians are the only kids being slapped with a label of "gender identity disorder" then given puberty suppressing drugs? This is happening to sissy little effiminate boys too. Just google "Trans Kids Purple Rainbow".

    This little male child is already being called "she".

    "She was born a boy, but since age 6 she has lived full time as a happy little girl... Essie was born a boy. Essie transitioned at the age of 6, but she has known since the age of 1 that she was a girl."

  18. "Transition is not a tragedy unless you are a lesbian who has to grieve for the loss of her "people" who were never actually hers in the first place. "

    Historically, there have been periods in time in which sex reassignment surgery was used as a form of social control, specifically the erasing of gay identity. I don’t know if this still takes place in Iran, but there is overwhelming evidence that many gay men in Iran have been coerced into sex reassignment surgery. I’m sure the life of transsexuals in Iran isn’t pleasant by any means, but it sure beats being executed.

    “In Iran, it is illegal and considered sinful to be gay or to be involved in homosexual relations. The punishment can be death. A CBC report reveals what can only be called an unprecedented move: Iran deals with the crime and sin of homosexuality by offering fully-paid sex change surgery.
    This 'solution' came about when Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini declared sex change surgery permissible for 'diagnosed transsexuals'. This surgery allows homosexuals to avoid penalty and continue in their lifestyle without retribution . . .provided they can live with the physical alteration to their own body and the abandonment that may come from loved ones.

    Iranian-born filmmaker Tanaz Eshaghian made a documentary about the subject titled Be Like Others. In it, she covers many aspects of the situation including the discrepancy in attitude between the classes and the fact that many Iranian homosexuals prefer to remain in their own country and face the knife than move to a country with more toleration for homosexuality.”

    Iran's solution to 'gay problem'? State-funded sex change surgery

    November 13, 2010

    “Doctors in Tehran, often called the sex-change capital of the world, perform gender-reassignment surgeries in unprecedented numbers. The Iranian government promotes and even subsidizes the operations, which help people define themselves as a man or a woman.

    In the 2008 documentary Be Like Others, by American-Iranian film maker Tanaz Eshaghian, an Iranian cleric explains the government’s simple logic: If a matter is not specifically addressed in the Qur’an, it is not a sin.

    Transsexuals are not mentioned, so such changes are permitted, even encouraged. “You take wheat and turn it into flour and turn that into bread. That’s a change. You cut a tree down and make a table or chair,” says the cleric.
    Dr. Bahram Mir-Jalali is a Paris-trained surgeon and Iran’s leading specialist in sex-change surgery. “Iran is a paradise for transsexual patients,” he boasts in the documentary. Mir-Jalali performs more gender-reassignment surgeries in a year than all of France’s doctors have in a decade.
    The numbers tell a disturbing story, says Arsham Parsi, who runs the Toronto-based Iranian Railroad for Queer Refugees, a non-governmental organization that helps persecuted gays and lesbians in Iran find refuge in other countries, most through Turkey.
    Parsi says the country performs too many “corrective” operations. He estimates at least 40 per cent of the transgendered people in Iran should never have had surgery. Too many surgeries are performed on men and women who are simply gay, but submit to surgery to appease a family and society that does not accept them, he explains.”

  19. "Historically, there have been periods in time in which sex reassignment surgery was used as a form of social control, specifically the erasing of gay identity."

    Actually, that's not the responsibility of any actual trans person. You should take it up with the oppressive regimes (really, you *should*), rather than targeting trans people who SOUGHT OUT transition.

  20. " I don’t know if this still takes place in Iran"

    It never stopped!

  21. Transpeople are their own self-contained oppressive regimes.


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