Just because you don't transition doesn't mean you aren't trans.
"Just because you don't transition doesn't mean you aren't trans."Dirt is a sexy and beautiful butch. She does not need to transition to attract women who are interested in her identity and confidence...
LOL at you thinking we transition to attract women.
The trans disorder develops due to female self hatred, nothing to do with whom the female partners with.dirt
I'm extremely gender confused :(
Is it me of one has a flat duck dick?
I dn't know what the guy has on his dick but you don't want to suck him :(
I see what you're doing. You only choose the phallos that are the most visually unpleasent to post on here instead of showing phallos that have great visual results.
if you have examples of attractive ft'm' phalluses by all means, share!
I don't share photos of people's genitals publicly (even if they themselves have done so.
IF this is all due to misogyny then why do I hate my breasts so much? I don't really hate my female genitals but just my breasts.
to 5:01 PM"LOL at you thinking we transition to attract women."that's for sure you don't! It's a sure repellent
Do you know how long past-surgery this was? I am wondering if that arm scarring is permanent...
Not all women are crazy cunts like you all.
I'm FTM and 'bottom surgery' is actually disgusting... in my opinion anyway. I really don't believe there's such a thing as a 'good' phallo result.Sorry if this offends any transguys reading this. But at the end of the day they're only my opinions, just as Dirt has hers.Equally I don't believe this is 'female self hatred' either... just a misinformed idea of how dysphoria should be treated. Just my 2 cents. I think there needs to be more discussion here than other transmen saying 'OMGBITCHDIE' and Dirt getting the misogyny record stuck.
Sweet Jesus these Doctors should be put in prison.
OMG, but do they really need to remove all the skin on the arm? It looks like an horror movie! :/ And can this FTM use his arm and hand after the surgery or is it damaged?
That was probably a week or so after the surgery. The arm scaring will go fade out to barely visible over a number of years.
there don't seem to be as many comments when things are put plain- they like to discuss gender and sex in the abstract best, not like men at all
There are *way* better examples of phallos and metas out there. Dirt is just trying to induce hysteria, as per usual. Which is not very hard with this group!Personally, I'd love to have a dick. Your damn right I have penis envy! But I'm afraid to lose what I have down there now, which is on the larger side of what's possible from T and very sensitive. Besides, if I had all that money, I'd buy a house and start thinking about adopting kids with my wife.
are transexuals always allowed to marry? that's kind of twisted (since I'm not)
It's possible. Transsexuals are able to get married if they are in straight relationships. After SRS you can get your birth certificate changed to the opposite sex so now legally you are the opposite sex.
It's very rare transguys to say they do not need hormones or surgery to be a man or not transition in any way because they are a man already. Sounds like a goal to be reached to be a man/make me a man, doc. Passing tips (not just by looks either but mannerisms) They still want ideals of what society deems a man which isn't them in their natural body. Which is sad because you end up with situations like the pics above. Docs look like they are practicing on trans people!
In a few years I expect the results of phallos will be much better. Many surgeries have to start somewhere and eventually get refined.
Yeah And these many surgeries will start and be refined on transguys vs. biomen. When more than anything to ideal is for it to work for biomen. Unfortunately.
People can come here and say Dirt is taking the worse of the worse...BUT even with "good" surgeries out there...most FTMs still don't do it cuz most looking horrible. Bottom surgery isn't drastically more expensive than top surgery. But sadly some of these guys thought that they looked good and did it. The arm looks like a flesh eating virus ate it. The penis is nowhere near a bio males. And someone felt this looked so good because they took pictures of it. I'm sure the doctor was assuring them how great it looked and cash all that $$$ into their bank accounts without a care.
Not all trans guys feel the need for a phallo. Some are fine with just a meta. Genitals do not make your gender.
I thought it was the difference between 5k and 80k. That's a big difference.My comment is for the individual who, previously, posted that there is an increase in mental health issues in the trans community. There is no evidence of this. Please provide the study.
"I thought it was the difference between 5k and 80k. That's a big difference."it's not always that big of a difference and a lot of guys are able to get surgeries fully or partially covered by insurance. then again if something is important enough to someone, money doesn't mean much.
Trans people go through a lot of therapy to weed out other mental illnesses. I think that's a far fetch claim. Phallo can run you from $50k-$150k. Meta can run you from $2k-$20kTop surgery can run you from $2k-$10k.Thanks, Anon 10:19am. I gladly stand corrected. I read costs on a transfriendly website though. It only showed a double increase not 75x increase. Must've been for meta then.
I agree, these surgeries are rudimentary at best. But that doesn't mean I can't support someone's decision to change their body. Know why? It's not my body. It's theirs. And if they've weighed the outcomes and researched the results, and still wish to pursue it, that's up to them. It has no effect on me. I can exist and live just the same. What I don't understand is why you, Dirt, feel the need to belittle others for being different from you. Especially when you take pictures of people who are in no way involved in your life.If you don't want that kind of surgery, it's pretty simple: don't have it. If you don't like the way the surgeries look, there's another simple solution: don't look at them.I think there's an interesting parallel to be drawn between your disapproval, Dirt, and that of anti-abortionists. They argue that abortion is wrong, damaging, against religion and God, and women pursuing abortion need to be swayed to make "the right" choice. Well, you seem to have formed some pretty serious dogma against trans men. According to your blog, trans men are wrong. Their decisions to pursue medical transition are damaging. They are going against (your particular) beliefs about how the body should be treated or formed.I'm curious about why you refer to other people to make your point. Why not use your own life as an example instead? Why not talk about how you live, breathe, and exist as a butch lesbian or butch woman? Why not promote positive images of butch women, butch lesbians? Instead of fighting a community that is clearly not going anywhere, I would put my energy, efforts, and enthusiasm to better use. Just a suggestion.
kai, well said but it will never sway dirt, she's just too engrossed by trans people. Some might even say she wants to join us in our transitions.
Dirt isn't a transguy. Anytime any of you bring that up it just plays RIGHT into the things Dirt saying. She's a valid butch.
@ Anon, 11:09PMI doubt it will make a difference, but I think you make a dangerous presumption in your statement. I don't believe anyone should be told who or what they are, and it's not up to me to tell them, assume, or judge their identity. Which is why I pose the questions in my original comment.Why exploit the negatives of a different community when you can actively promote the positives of your own?
trans is a trend that has seen it's day. It's a relic of old 1950's conservatism.
What are your thoughts on someone who transitioned socially young, say 5 and was on hormone blockers and went on hormones so they only went through male puberty though they were assigned female at birth?
"trans is a trend that has seen it's day. It's a relic of old 1950's conservatism."You're right, so is homosexuality.
I totally agree with Kai. But I have noticed that any time Dirt speaks on non-trans stuff everyone goes dead silence. When she goes and puts up something controversial like those youtube screenshots everyone is all over this place! It makes it seem like no one cares unless its controversial and no one cares to just read or talk about women. So where's women's validity or rights in that? Kinda plays right BACK into what Dirt is implying. I'd still love to read women's stories on growing up butch. Maybe some of the butches could submit stories if they like. I dunno.
Lemme guess. This is about Dirt. http://transtastic.tumblr.com/post/4390635289/hypocrisy-of-the-anti-trans-feminism
What the fuck is a "valid butch"?
In this case, it describes a female who identifies as butch when others are trying to describe her as FTM. That's what the fuck I meant by a valid butch is. :D
@ Anon 11:35Perhaps because many of the people who comment or discuss Dirt's posts are actively seeking the negative material she currently posts? That would be my assumption. I have to say, that's why I started reading her blog. But if she were to gradually (or abruptly) re-direct her blog in a more positive manner, she would garner more readers willing to discuss their experiences. As much as trans men come here to defend their identities, so too must the butches--from the angry folks who are inappropriately policing butches as well. With less policing on both sides of the divide, it seems everyone would benefit.
Dirt, How would you know why it happens if you aren't trans? Only trans people possibly know. And clearly you're not trans. So you really have no say in why they transition.
Anonymous said..."IF this is all due to misogyny then why do I hate my breasts so much? I don't really hate my female genitals but just my breasts."This is such a good point. I have a friend who is undeniably femme. She absolutely hated her breasts as they stood and chose to have breast reduction surgery. She loves being a woman and she loved the rest of her being. She actually did get breast reduction surgery. She is definately attracted to extreme butches.
"trans is a trend that has seen it's day. It's a relic of old 1950's conservatism."Well, if this is the case, why all the hub bub about it? If it has seen its day, why the need to devote every breathing hour looking for the most negative things Dirt can find to post here?Why not worry about each of our own lives and quit worrying about what others are doing with their lives?
To all FTM here, the phallos you see here were done in a country where the Healthcare System is fully paid by the tax payers and so the surgeons do work in the best conditions ever: they only have one phallo patient per week and the patient are not billed so the result is not money-dependent.The person posted those photos publicly (you cn retrieve them from a simple url) and was proud of the result.
@ Radis:I'm not understanding what you're getting at. Would you mind clarifying?
I hope more people will try to understand what happens. Whether they are trans or non-trans especially when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. Just a thought. Misogyny and patriarchy are real reasons why females hate their body. Disputing its exist is ignorant. It's there we just have to do something about it. Whether we are trans or not.
"Valid butch" is a hilarious idea then. I don't see any reason why people would NOT call her an ftm, though I would not be proud of sharing that category with her. I don't trust the vitriolic rantings of a "butch" who is obsessed with ftm's and transitioning. I know "valid butches" who are secure enough in their butch identity that ftm's are simply another kind of person to them. Period. That fact stands alone and I have experience with those types of butches. I trust them above and beyond anyone like Dirt.
@Anons talking about breasts.This is a great point actually. I wouldn't say that I have body dysphoria per se, because if it came down to it, I could live with breasts(I'm trans by the way). However! I would want them as small as possible, because I don't exactly feel a mental connection with them. I like look at them and say," Oh look, I have breasts. Whoop de doo." Also, getting rid of them would probably help my back problems a great deal. I know someone who had a cup size...or was it two? Anyway, she had a breast reduction, for her back problems, and she's straight. Why can't I? And for anyone who might possibly say, oh you transman you, you just want to get rid of your breasts to be a man. Poser. I actually do have back problems. 15 degree scoliosis. Or however you spell it. I really don't care to look it up. So, not terrible back problems, but my back starts to ache everyday if I don't go to the chiropractor every month.Anywhosen....Just my two cents worth. Take it how you will. Also, I hope Dirt doesn't delete this comment like she has a few of my others. I really would like to have stimulating conversations with other people...
Some people say some phallo are successful. Ok, why not? But who cares about other transmales phallo? The guy who has this "flat dick" on the photo, he doesn't care. His phallo went bad and he can't use his dick the way he wanted to and it is not even looking like a dick. Even if phallo are 80% successful, as it is an important part of the body both for sexuality and functional (peeing), when it goes bad, you re really in deep shit.This surgery seems to work only on biomales who had an accident, but still have a part of their dick and must have partial re-construction of the penis.FTM are used as guinea pigs to help those surgeons doing a better job with biomales.The same way they use FTM on T to see the long-term effect of T on human body.
Dirt, what about metoidioplasty? You don't show it because you know FTM can have a beautiful functionning dick with metoidioplasty.
oh hai! I remember you from last year when I was reading, but you get a lot of readers so I don't expect you to remember me.Anyway, that's a strange looking penis. I've seen my fair share of biological males and that doesn't look right. At all. It looks neither circumcised nor uncircumcised, and it looks rather misshaped. I don't understand why anyone would want that.
Anonymous 2:05. I said she's a valid butch because someone was trying to invalidate her gender expression. How hard is that to comprehend? You may not understand how anyone would NOT consider her FTM. But someone may not comprehend how you or someone you care about is a man trapped in a woman's body! Invaliding someone's gender or gender expression wrong. It's the same thing many people have asked Dirt to stop doing.
You can't take the worst example of one kind of transition and say all transmen are self-hating misogynists. This photo is of a surgery gone pretty bad. And even though it looks bad, the person who had it may feel better about his body. It's HIS body, and though you would never dream of doing it to your own does not mean he can't be at least a little satisfied. Besides, not every trans person gets a phalloplasty. There is no such thing as "THE" complete surgery. Each transperson's journey is different, we each have our own goals that suit our own bodies. Not everyone wants or needs to have those skin grafts to attach a prosthetic penis. It's an identity, it's different than yours, and you have no right at all to tell anyone their identity is wrong.How do you feel when a Christian conservative tells you how wrong your "choice" was to come out as butch? You're doing the exact same thing to us.
I'd also like to re-direct attention to what Kai wrote April 6 at 10:52. I think it's a very valid point, and shouldn't be overlooked.Putting your efforts towards a more positive image of the butch lesbian community, or the lesbian community as a whole, would be a far better approach. You make a lot of people fear and dislike the butch community. You're not all angry, and you don't all hate transmen. I know that for a fact, I have several lesbian friends who proudly call themselves butch.I'm not trying to come off as aggressive, and I'm sorry for the transmen who do. It's hard to contain one's anger when a discriminated class discriminates another similar class. We're all fighting for our rights and I'm sorry but yours are no more important than ours. I try to represent my community as human beings who live their own lives as peacefully as we can. Again, stop behaving like the anti-gay hate groups who repress the GLBT community as a whole - it's them who are your enemy, not us. We'd gladly protest against them with you, if you'd calm down and let us.
This got smoothly ignored in the last post, so I'll go ahead and ask this again, since I'm curious to how your logic works here.What does that make male to female transition then? There are about as many transwomen out there (even though they aren't as visible on the internet) and they grew up in the same misogynistic society, the same Male Medical Machine is used to make their bodies look more female. How does that make sense?
Misogyny and patriarchy are real reasons why females hate their body. Disputing its exist is ignorant. It's there we just have to do something about it. Whether we are trans or not.April 7, 2011 1:57 AM____________________________What rubbish!I am a proud, strong, feminine woman, and I don't dislike parts of my body because I am a misogynist and it certainly has nothing to do with the patriarchy.You show me one woman who is 100% pleased with their bodys.I dislike my roman nose, to me its too big, but its part of me so I just have to put up with it, as I have got older, and my breasts have gone southwards, I have begun to dislike their shape. I have a saggy tummy due to bearing children, that I also dislike. It doesnt make me a misogynist and it certainly has nothing to do with the patriarchy. IT IS ME who is critical of my body, or dissatisfied, Its not influenced by anyone else. In fact my partner loves everything about my body, and doesn't understand my dissatisfaction and encourages me to see the positive in it. So your statement does not hold water.Women are sensitive self critiqueing beings, it doesnt always have to do with society that they are thins way, sometimes they just are.
I agree with Ryan and Kai in this post.Good on Dirt for being a proud Butch Lesbian, there's nothing wrong in being self assured and proud of who you are. I would stand next to Butch lesbians and the like to fight for their rights to exist in society with all the equal rights that should be afforded to them.Just as I would stand next to transguys and mtf's for the very same reason.It makes me very sad to see this division in our communtity, we should all be looking out for each other and fighting for each other.It seems there are some very short memorys here, can you not remember how hard it was to fight for our own homosexual identitys, to feel safe to live in our own environments without fear of being attacked. To have the same rights as everyone else. Some of which we are still fighting for.All this type of thing does is make it harder for transgendered people to be accepted, these men and women are being attacked both physically and mentally and it wasnt that long ago that we were having the same happen to us...and in fact it still does happen.So we should be able to relate to their struggle, instead of criticise it, or make their situation worse.It frightens me that some people in the community are doing this without a thought to what danger they are putting transgendered people in.That all this negativity breeds more negativity which is being aimed right at the transgendered community, which is putting them in a real danger. We should all be banding together and fighting for each other, against society that would shun us all.IMO
@ betty said-we do not all have the same rights! when ftm's transition- they become legal men. being a legal man has more rights than being a woman- much less a gay/queer womanand def more rights than a butch woman.they get male privilege. they get to marry their partner's legally if they so choose.
they also get to be 'invisible' walking down the street of life. they get to be viewed as a man. where as butch women are constantly on display for all to see- to be discriminated against. to be treated differently, less than.
agree with above. after they transition, they (ftms) also- in my experience, treat the butches like we are not butch enough, not radical enough, not brave enough, etc. the social circles shun us out (boys only club). suddenly us butches aren't nearly considered as 'cool'. which of course is a laugh.
Is the real issue with ftms is that they gain male privilege after transitioning? If they transitioned and stayed at the same social status would everything be okay?
there are SO many issues with the notion of FTMnothing about it, to me, could ever be 'ok'
agree with above. after they transition, they (ftms) also- in my experience, treat the butches like we are not butch enough, not radical enough, not brave enough, etc. the social circles shun us out (boys only club). suddenly us butches aren't nearly considered as 'cool'. which of course is a laugh._______________________________Your personal experience may be that but its not true for all butches.My partner and I know some amazing butches (as well as femmes). In my eyes (and my partners) their an awesome group of people. One of my partners best friends is a butch.Your are discriminating against a group of people because of a minority of people. Who may have treated your wrongly.Men treated me terribly, beyond what most women could endure or would endure. Yet I dont write off the whole of male society, just because a small group of men are abhorrent.Some of my best friends are male, and the sweetest most generous people, you will ever meet. They would never dream of treating women badly or oppressing them.To be truthful, its always been more from my own personal experience women that have treated me terribly. From being bullied at school (and put in hospital) to being bullied at work by my female colleagues (no men worked there), to such an extent that I nearly had a breakdown. Women can be vicious, and manipulative and can be just as brutal. The one job where I worked in a male dominated work place (engineering). I was treated amazingly by all the men I came in contact with. All treated me well, included me as part of the group, never spoke to my breasts, always was courteous.What I am trying to say is, that you guys (some of you) are being against a male society, be it bio male or transmales because you think they treat you badly or oppress you or some how have advantage over you but in actually, women can treat women just as appallingly and women often get advantage over men, or use their womanly wiles to take them places. It does happen.It has also been said that once transmen become men (through gender marker change) that they get to have male rights get married etc.This was fought for though, just as you fought for your rights, and is only a relatively new thing. Some countries do allow same sex marriage and rights also. Also to become male, they have to jump through a lot of hoops, including sometimes divorcing their current partners, and to do this they also have to have had some surgerys done be on hormones etc. So if a transman doesnt follow the rules they cant change their gender marker. So its not all as black and white.The thing is though, just because they suddenly become male, in society's eyes, doesn't mean that they somehow change their personality's. Not all men are nasty, oppressing individuals. Just as not all women are, by my own experience.It would be very short sighted of me to assume that all genders are nasty, oppressing bullys just because my own experience shows that, because I know in actuality that's not the case.I cant write off whole droves of people because of a minority of people.As for those surgerys, I think you will find they are the worst kind, not everyone has those experiences. A lot of transmen wont have bottom surgerys because they are not at the stage where they would be satisfied with the results. Medicine takes time. Progress takes time. This goes for anything, not just trans surgerys.
On the subject of discrimination and oppression- women are an oppressed group in our society. Men are the ones who have received privileges- rich white males are the ones who have screwed up the planet and have gotten our society into the mess it is in: war, pollution, greed, and destruction. Males of every socioeconomic group receive privilege relative to females. A woman who decides to "transition" is deciding to become part of that oppressor group that is given unfair privilege in the society. And FTMs do receive privileges that lesbians cannot access, such as the right to marry, access to better paying (male) job opportunities, being accepted by the neighbors if perceived as a straight couple, etc, etc, plus the ability to walk down the street with less fear of violence and rape. So basically the FTM is making a choice that "I'm going to go make a grab for the privilege, and too bad about the rest of you." Personally I don't see how they justify that. I know some FTMs seem to have a little bit of conscience about it, but evidently it's more important to have facial hair and a flat chest than it is to fight for the rights of the oppressed group you were born into. It's like a black person wanting to be white, and then saying it's just because they always felt affinity for a lighter skin color. If FTMs do pass as male, they are going to receive far better treatment in society than a butch dyke, and better treatment than ANY woman. If they don't pass, well, then maybe they will experience discrimination for not adhering to the sex role stereotypes. So basically, you have a member of an oppressed group (females), trying to join the oppressor group (males), and then saying they are discriminated against because they are trans???
@ betty-that's your experience i suppose. however- one does not need to site research to show that women are treated on a whole much different than men in this society we live in currently. not the idealistic one you speak of where everyone gets every little thing they want.your spew of how awesome men are in your life is great- FOR YOU. but really, men are the ones starting wars, killing people, raping people and the earth since the begining of time. just cause you happen to know some enlightened few doesn't change the fact that a girl/woman is getting raped/abused as we speak. so take your 'men are great & ive been treated worse by women' elsewhere, cause let me assure you that your experience with that is way in the minority.
Betty-"The one job where I worked in a male dominated work place (engineering). I was treated amazingly by all the men I came in contact with. All treated me well, included me as part of the group, never spoke to my breasts, always was courteous."wow being treated courteous, and not talking to your breats, how progressive. LOL. i bet you got paid less than they did.see: http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/engineering-pay-gap-glassdoor-reveals-many-women-engineers-earn-less-than-men/
mouse said...there are SO many issues with the notion of FTMnothing about it, to me, could ever be 'ok'________________________________People in many quarters would say that about homeosexuality, but I bet you wouldn't be ok about that point of view.Discrimination is wrong, in ALL forms IMOI wouldn't tell you how to live your life. I don't have a right, so what gives you the right to tell others how to live theirs?What gives anyone a right to suppress anyone?Transmen and women have fought for your equality, and would like to continue to do so, openly, so why is this wrong, why shun them?Transmen are feeling forced into living stealth to avoid discrimination not just by their own community but by communitys in general.Is not all support for the LGBT community valid? Are only people from the communitys support valid, so does this mean we should write of support from the hetero community as well? Does this mean that my partner, who has fought for the LGBT community in many many many ways, does this mean he should stop? Because you dont accept who he is?!Well I know he wont, because he believes in what you are fighting for, he belives in equality, he believes in equal rights, and he will help you keep fighting for them. Which he has ALWAYS and very actively done.Yet you wont fight for him, or support him.Very sad.
betty"Transmen are feeling forced into living stealth to avoid discrimination not just by their own community but by communitys in general."not fair to say this about transmen. you are generalizing just as you tell others not to do so. many guys i know strive to be stealth.
Betty-"The one job where I worked in a male dominated work place (engineering). I was treated amazingly by all the men I came in contact with. All treated me well, included me as part of the group, never spoke to my breasts, always was courteous."wow being treated courteous, and not talking to your breats, how progressive. LOL. i bet you got paid less than they did.see: http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/engineering-pay-gap-glassdoor-reveals-many-women-engineers-earn-less-than-men/_________________________________No, actually, I got paid more.Also.....Lesbians are always talking to my breasts, so should I feel offended? In fact the most lewd comments I have ever received were from Lesbian women (mostly butch I have to say). I could state some of them, but their too rude to publish. I was amused, not annoyed. After all I am femme, I have large breast's, they are 'out there', their a bit hard not to notice.@DM men are raped too you know, its not just women. In fact murders by women are on the up! Womens prisons are overflowing. Crimes commited by women are on the up. Its not just men who start wars, Look at Maggie Thatcher. There are female leaders in this world also. Its not just men who are rich, women are also, and there are some very powerful female business women out there.Also its not just the male medical machine, women are also at the forefront of this machine, they also are making discoveries and progression in medicine.I will also point out, if it weren't for this medical machine, many advances in medcine, that have HELPED people wouldnt have happened. Its not all bad. Just as not all men are bad.Not all men rape pillage and oppress. Your writing off a whole group of people for a minority..Some men have made valid and awesome contributions to society, but your so blinded by your hate, or dislike you cant see the positive sides of them, or the negative side of us women!!!
"agree with above. after they transition, they (ftms) also- in my experience, treat the butches like we are not butch enough, not radical enough, not brave enough, etc. the social circles shun us out (boys only club). suddenly us butches aren't nearly considered as 'cool'."Wah! If you were waiting around expecting any ftm to kiss your ass and praise your butchness, you should expect dissappointment.
It must be so tiring for Dirt to take comments from all of these people who don't even read her posts and know nothing whatsoever about basic psychology and sociology, let alone feminism. The CEO of the Patriarchy itself showed up to let us all know that it´s not necessarily patriarchal societies that make womyn self-conscious and unhappy with their bodies! That's just some womyn's NATURE! Nevermind the constant stream of TV shows, movies, songs, commercials, books, magazines, street harassment, beauty pageants, school bullying, peer pressure, etc. etc. that criticizes female bodies from their earliest years, try to sell womyn things to change their appearance, promote and mainstream plastic surgery, never refer to a womyn without also referring to how she looks, sell womyn's clothes designed to expose more skin and outline more body parts than men's clothing, etc. etc.! Whoever thinks that womyn are just as brutal as men is a damned fool. Who is raping, kidnapping, murdering, torturing, selling into sexual slavery, and prostituting human beings all over the world, going back centuries, men or womyn? Who is starting and fighting wars? Talking about some woymn bullying you or even attacking you, you are loosing sight of the big picture. Not only are men perpetrating the vast majority of brutality and injustice in this world, past and present, they create and sustain the sick, violent societies that acclimate others to violence and encourage everyone else to be violent as well.And LOL, how many posts are there on this blog that discuss the damage physical transition does to the body, the misogyny and gender conformity that some FTMs reflect IN THEIR OWN COMMENTS TO THIS BLOG AND IN THE SCREENCAPS DIRT POSTS, and somebody actually asks if the "real" issue is that they get male privilege and womyn don't?! What the fuck, are you not paying attention?It's almost like the MAJORITY of people commenting are trolls.
O__O what is this thing??? It looks horrible!!
betty,what world are you living in? cause it's clearly not the one all the other of us women are living in. sounds like you are so stuck defending your 'man' that you've forgotten what real men are like in the real world. when i read your experience- i mean really, you must be the luckiest girl in the world ever, to have been treated so well by all the men!sounds like some butch really broke your heart badly, cause you sound really bitter. take your butch hatred elsewhere.women do not abuse/rape/kill to anywhere near the percentage of men. you really sound delusional.
Betty sure is beating the odds on all fronts! Getting paid more than the men when most do not. Getting sexually harrassed by women and not men, when most say the opposite. Just how do you continue to beat out the majority on all fronts?!
Anon @ 12:55:""agree with above. after they transition, they (ftms) also- in my experience, treat the butches like we are not butch enough, not radical enough, not brave enough, etc. the social circles shun us out (boys only club). suddenly us butches aren't nearly considered as 'cool'."Wah! If you were waiting around expecting any ftm to kiss your ass and praise your butchness, you should expect dissappointment."where did that poster say they were expecting ass kissing? i've been kicked out of the "boys club" as they say as well. which of course is lame. but just goes to prove further that many times these transitions are influenced by peer pressure. and that those that are transitioning distance themselves many times from others---- not the other way around.then they wonder why the dykes just don't accept them anymore!
You always harp against the FTM crowd and MTF crowd but what of the androgyns? Those who are not easily identifiable as male or female. Do they have a valid gender expression? I ask because some of the androgyns take some steps to change their bodies that are the same as those ussed by the transsexual crowd. At what point does society restrict access to medical treatments that affect percieved gender?
BettyI don't even know who you are. I never called you a misogynist. I'm saying misogyny and patriarchy exist in our society just like racism and sexism. I'm not calling you racist or sexist when I meant it exist in society. We can't act like those things do not exist. I never said they were the only things that affect women. You read that yourself. We just need to do something about them. We all influence each other. We are all affected by how society treats us.
us = humankind not just us as in women,
Hey Dirt.In the past, I identified as a FtM. Luckily, I was pre-everything, so it was easy to go back to the woman that I used to be. There were multiple reasons why I identified as "male", although I had never felt "male" at all. I live in a really small town where it is not okay to be a lesbian. People will beat the crap out of you and make you the center for hate. That was one reason that I started identifying as trans. So, that I could be with my lover and be seen as a straight couple. Another reason that I like being able to identify as trans was because of my religion. Homosexuality in my religion is a sin and not accepted. Because of this, I was always nervous about being with a woman. However, I thought if I were male, it would be okay. Finally, I was ashamed of myself and of being a lesbian. I guess I had homophobia, in a way, even though I was dating a woman. I didn't like that I was attracted to women and I certainly did not like being butch. So, I tried to change who I was to make everything okay, to be in a "heterosexual" relationship. Now, I have let everything go and I am so happy. I can be myself because now I don't care what others think. I can be the proud Dyke that I am.
dirty, you're like those anti-abortion nuts who show pictures of aborted fetuses to scare and shock people, and you're a dumb cunt too.
another example of the hate displayed above. real mature.
betty"Transmen are feeling forced into living stealth to avoid discrimination not just by their own community but by communitys in general."not fair to say this about transmen. you are generalizing just as you tell others not to do so. many guys i know strive to be stealth.________________________________yes your right, I should have said 'some' transmen are feeling forced into living stealth.However, even 'some' transguys shouldn't feel forced to do that, rather than be discriminated against.
to bettyhonestly I'm not 'fighting' for any rights, and am not looking for 'support'- i never thought transexuals should be included with lesbians and gays and honestly i never even thought lesbians and gay men should be grouped together. i'm not much for groupings like that anyway...i'm just a quiet artist in the city, uninvolved in politics and very disturbed by the growing numbers of young ftm's i witness in my daily travels
@April 7, 2011 12:26 PM I dont know what your deal is, but you seem to want to guilt trip transmen for making the decisions they made, as you say "abondoning the oppressed group" and "grabbing the privileges". No apoligies whatsoever from here, for the decision I made for me.Maybe being unopressive and undiscriminative should start from you first, and realise that people do have rights to do what they like with their bodies and lives.
Anonymous said...betty,what world are you living in? cause it's clearly not the one all the other of us women are living in. sounds like you are so stuck defending your 'man' that you've forgotten what real men are like in the real world. when i read your experience- i mean really, you must be the luckiest girl in the world ever, to have been treated so well by all the men!sounds like some butch really broke your heart badly, cause you sound really bitter. take your butch hatred elsewhere.women do not abuse/rape/kill to anywhere near the percentage of men. you really sound delusional._________________________________Actually I have been equally treated badly by men in relationships, as I have by women. You dont know me and have made judgements based on what?The most violent relationship I was ever in, was with a man. The most emotionally damaging relationship I was in was with a woman.If you read what I said, you will see I said just because I have been treated badly by a minority of the male sex, does not mean I should write off the whole of the male sex. They are not all bad, they are not all oppressors, or nasty, or violent, or rapists, or warmongers. Just as I have been treated badly by women, not just in relationships but in my work environment. Does not mean all women are like that. Not all women are nasty, emotionally abusive, manipulative.The point you missed was that there are women in this world who can be just as bad as the men. I dont right women off because of bad eggs just as I dont with the men.I will defend my man, because he is wonderful and yes I am very very blessed to have such a good person in my life. I also have wonderful women in my life also, whom I am also blessed to have in my life.I didnt get to this place over night, I had to break a few eggs, to find a good one.Yes I have had a bad relationship with a butch (and actually also a femme), but I am not bitter about it. She was emotionally and physically damaged and sexually abused by her MOTHER (who was abused by her mother). She was a victim of her upbringing, Sadly she couldn't cope with it, and I bore the brunt of what happened with her through the bad way she treated me. However she learned lessons with me, that led her on to a wonderful relationship, with someone else who was also an abuse survivor and they are getting married next year (we have same sex marriage here). The lessons I learned was, I cant fix people no matter how much I want to, no matter how much I love them, its not worth the abuse, and I learned not to be a doormat and to speak my mind. She made me stronger.So bitter I am not.
i call liar! said...Betty sure is beating the odds on all fronts! Getting paid more than the men when most do not. Getting sexually harrassed by women and not men, when most say the opposite. Just how do you continue to beat out the majority on all fronts?!________________________________I didnt say I was an engineer I said I worked in engineering, and I was an office manager, on higher pay that most of the engineers! People shouldn't assume.I also never said I have never been sexually harrassed by men, but actually I haven't been. I am a fiercely strong and independent woman, perhaps men felt intimidated by me, who knows. I dont have the answers as to why, but its true, that I haven't had that experience.Thats not to say I havent been badly treated, if you read my posts you will see I do say I have been, and also above.Perhaps I am speaking for equality, instead of feminism, as I am a true believer in equality for all.Why I am a troll, just because I give you all a different perspective based on my life experience. If we were all the same we would be very boring.I am not a young whipper snapper. I have had a very varied life, full of very varied relationships.I have been blessed to have the positive relationships and I have learned and grown stronger from the negative ones.What I would put up with now, is very different from what I would have put up with 10 years or even 5 years ago!!I just see the positives in this life as well as the negatives, where as to me some of you seem to dwell on all the negatives. There is more to life than that though, otherwise, if its all negative, whats the point?I am not blind to the bad things that go on in the world. It saddens me to see it. I just refuse to write off a majority because of a minority and I believe in changing things through action, or by standing up and saying if I don't agree with something, and speaking my mind.Years ago I wouldnt have felt strong enough to do that. Through life lessons I have become stronger, and through the love of a good partner, who has help raise my confidence and helped mend my self esteem. I get more and more stronger every day.Why is that wrong, because of his gender?Also why cant I defend the person I love? Why cant any partner? Why is that wrong? Wouldnt you defend yours? Wouldnt you defend the rights of your partner? Wouldnt you defend your partner if they were being discriminated against? If it was your partner having their photographs exposed, like they are here, wouldnt you defend them?Of course you would, you love them, so you would do everything in your power to stand up for them, Because that isnt wrong. Its a good thing.Why should we stand silent, while you bash our partners?Why is it so wrong to show you a different, positive side. Is your stance so threatened, strong that you cant acknowledge that not everyones lives are filled with poop. You should be celebrating that women are having positive experiences.I am called bitter, but its not me who sounds bitter.
your right betty i don't know you- i am however basing my opinion of you based on what you yourself have written. as a feminist, i know that just because i may of had some men treat me nice, and may of had some women not treat me very nice- does not negate the fact that overall, generally speaking men are the more dominate, aggressive, oppressive, abusive ones out there when you compare the sexes as a WHOLE. your singular experience does not negate what the actual statistics are for women generally.the statistics speak for themselves.no one is saying anything about writing off a entire sex based on one man/woman. but for you to even mention women commiting violent crimes in comparison to men- is just really silly. as a butch lesbian myself- I am harrassed daily by men- as is my girlfriend. in all of my 34 years i have never been harrassed by a woman.
Sure, people have the freedom to modify their bodies. They even have the freedom to look like this guy if they want to:www.thelizardman.comWhat we are examining here is not whether people CAN modify their bodies, or have the "right" to, since obviously people do. We are discussing the social environment that leads to it, the whys, the political & social implications, how it affects people, medical ethics, social constructs, and the rest of the big picture.
dirt are you on http://www.transbucket.com/?
Anonymous said...your right betty i don't know you- i am however basing my opinion of you based on what you yourself have written. as a feminist, i know that just because i may of had some men treat me nice, and may of had some women not treat me very nice- does not negate the fact that overall, generally speaking men are the more dominate, aggressive, oppressive, abusive ones out there when you compare the sexes as a WHOLE. your singular experience does not negate what the actual statistics are for women generally.the statistics speak for themselves.no one is saying anything about writing off a entire sex based on one man/woman. but for you to even mention women commiting violent crimes in comparison to men- is just really silly. as a butch lesbian myself- I am harrassed daily by men- as is my girlfriend. in all of my 34 years i have never been harrassed by a woman.___________________________________See thats where you misunderstand me. I wasnt comparing, I was using them as an example of how there are women who are also responsible for wrong doing.You could then argue the nature versus nurture theory, about why men act this way. They are borne of women and for the most, (although not obviously in all cases) women are the main carer. So do women not have any blame. Look at the mother who will defend their serial killer sons etcWhat I protest about is that it is almost assumed, that because transmen are becoming mlae that they are suddenly lumped into a pile of 'men are oppressors, rapists, are more privaleged..etc etcThat's simply not the case. Especially if they are openly trans, they face discrimination. Not just from 'some' people in their own community, but the general community as well.Its said that they can be invisible, and go stealth, well this is exactly what some transmen are doing rather than face that discrimination. I find that said because some of those transmen are very active in our community, helping to fight for equality in the LGBT community, just as many of us are. To me were losing valuable members of the community. Many transmen I know, work very hard for the community, are they any less valuable because they are changing their.There are hetero males and females that fight for our rights.Isnt that what we wantI actually can see, to an extent what Dirt is trying to do. I just dont agree that by exposing people with photographs and Iding them is the way to do it. You see, as a lesbian, I was exposed to hate crime, on 3 occasions, because of my sexuality. By women in the place I lived, I had car egged, name calling, violence threatened, even my children were harrassed because of my sexuality. By word of mouth by these women, other people in the community I lived in, harrassed me, also. So much so I had to move.Your lucky to not have been harrassed by your female peers anon, but this is not the case for everyone.Transmen and women are receiving the same harrassment, and exposing them, so that others can then harrass them, is dangerous, and IMO irresponsible. We should relate to that, dont you think?
"You see, as a lesbian, I was exposed to hate crime, on 3 occasions, because of my sexuality. By women in the place I lived, I had car egged, name calling, violence threatened, even my children were harrassed because of my sexuality. By word of mouth by these women, other people in the community I lived in, harrassed me, also. So much so I had to move."---------------------------Is this why you became an ex-lesbian?
"You see, as a lesbian, I was exposed to hate crime, on 3 occasions, because of my sexuality. By women in the place I lived, I had car egged, name calling, violence threatened, even my children were harrassed because of my sexuality. By word of mouth by these women, other people in the community I lived in, harrassed me, also. So much so I had to move."---------------------------Is this why you became an ex-lesbian?__________________________________Who said I was an ex lesbian?
betty you said you were no longer a lesbian. that you were discriminated against as a lesbian so now you are with a man. lesbians don't partner with men. therefore you are an ex-lesbian.
This is tiring. Where do these arguments get us? It just creates a larger rift between our fellow people. Let me ask every internet blogger and commenter: Do you take these words into the public? When you're at the grocery store and you are served by a woman who, to you, seems clearly transgender, would you deliberately be rude to her? Do you take part in public events about your beliefs? (In other words, at pride events, feminist events, etc. do you set up and take part in groups that deny transpeople as part of the queer community? Do you scold kids on the street who you deem transgender? Are you a researcher working to disprove transgender people as having a true genetic, nuerological, or mental condition and prove that we're misogynistic, self-hating women chasing a privilege none of us actually acheive?Or do you limit yourself to anonymously posting slanderous, hateful, discriminatory, or rude remarks with the only gain of further establishing your own beliefs? Because no one on this blog seems to be convincing anyone but themselves and those already in agreement. This blog only makes everyone who posts look bad.Cheers,your friendly neighbourhood human-rights-loving transguy, Ryan.
All Betty is trying to point out is that we can make generalizations about groups of people (in this case men and women) which are known to be true, but we cannot say that every single person belonging to each of these categories will fit into the generalization. It isn't a hard concept to understand. YES there is rampant inequality in our society, YES it is men who have the upper hand. As someone stated above, no research needs to be presented to demonstrate this. When people make statements with the words "every" or "all", they are taking big risks. I think she is trying to emphasize that if you are going to present an argument that is opinion-based, it would look a lot better on your part to point out that you do not mean "all" or "every" male or female.
Ryno stop threatening Dirt, you obviously want to rape her.
Anonymous said...betty you said you were no longer a lesbian. that you were discriminated against as a lesbian so now you are with a man. lesbians don't partner with men. therefore you are an ex-lesbian.________________________________Where did I say I was no longer a lesbian? I have never said that.Why are you forcing a label on me, that isnt me. I am not straight, neither Am I a bisexual. If my partner and I were not together. I would never date a bio man. I would only date women.My partner was presenting as a butch female when I met him, and fell in love with him, as a butch female. I love him, and support him, more than anything, just as he loves and supports me. Am I supposed to dump his ass, just because you dont understand it? Am I supposed to dump him to remain true to lesbianism? Why on earth would I lose the one person whom loves me for who I am, just as I love him for who he is.Love is good not bad.To me he is still the person I fell in love with on the inside. He is still that person, his heart is still huge, and he loves me just the same. We still have the same things in common, we still love the same foods, smells, films music or whatever.Why do I have to change my sexual identity just because he is changing his gender?My partner doesn't have a problem with my identity, and thats all I care about.Trying to force a different identity on me, still wont change how I feel about myself on the inside. I will always identify as a lesbian, I fought hard to come out, at the risk of losing everything.Whether you like it or not, whether you understand it or not. Thats who I am, and who has a right to tell me otherwise.Certainly not you.
@ Ryno. Perrrrfect example of what I'm talking about. This blog makes everyone who posts look bad? If you're sticking by that statement then you look bad too. I highly doubt many will read your post and decide against ever posting again. Who knows, some may.. But I suspect most will just laugh it off. Sorry.
@hood internet...you totally got what I was saying. Thank you.
all I can figure is if someone says they're a lesbian whilst in a relationship with a ftm that means that this lesbian doesn't really consider the ftm a man but just indulges the fantasy of her being one for some reason
ok got it betty- you and your partner are lesbians. or is she the ex-lesbian?
Anonymous said...all I can figure is if someone says they're a lesbian whilst in a relationship with a ftm that means that this lesbian doesn't really consider the ftm a man but just indulges the fantasy of her being one for some reason_________________________________Explain where your logic comes from?Its a forced label. Your forcing a stereotype label on me which I dont agree with. Why do some of you force labels, where they are not asked for?I loved my partner as a woman and I love him as a man. Can you not see that my love is unconditional? There is no fantasy here, this is a slow process we have both gone through, its not something that was taken lightly, or quickly. He is not a young FTM, he took his decision in life much later.Are relationships that shallow, are they filled with so little substance, that you cannot comprehend that somebody can continue to love somebody, when they change their gender. Can you not understand that I am so sure of myself, so secure in my sexuality, that I am not threatened by his changes? My partner is not threatened by my sexuality its something that we have discussed a lot. If I am happy, and he is happy, where is the true harm to you?In fact my love for him has grown so much stronger, our bond is stronger, because I feel he is so brave to be true to himself, because in my own experience (when I came out in my 30's), it is one of the hardest things you can do.So I accept that you dont get it, I accept you dont understand. However how I feel is valid, and whom I identify as is valid, and wont change, just because you tell me it should.
betty-you said:"Transmen and women are receiving the same harrassment, and exposing them, so that others can then harrass them, is dangerous, and IMO irresponsible."butch dykes are 'exposed' all day everyday in the world. and others do harrass them regularly. they cannot hide behind facial hairs and flat chests and bodies that have been altered that better hide them from society. many (NOT ALL) transmen that i have encountered transition in large part because of this partly. they are tired- just as we butch lesbians are of being constantly harassed and judged for expressing ourselves differently than the social norm.
totally agree with DM. these people don't seem to get that we are not attacking them. we are questioning all of it. what is so wrong about that? especially when many of us had all of the exact type of feelings described by ftms over and over again. look people- just like we can't force labels on you- what about the label trans? what about people who are masculine presenting and don't personally agree with transitioning? believe it or not, many of these people are shunned socially because of their decision to NOT transition.
Anonymous said...betty-you said:"Transmen and women are receiving the same harrassment, and exposing them, so that others can then harrass them, is dangerous, and IMO irresponsible."butch dykes are 'exposed' all day everyday in the world. and others do harrass them regularly. they cannot hide behind facial hairs and flat chests and bodies that have been altered that better hide them from society. many (NOT ALL) transmen that i have encountered transition in large part because of this partly. they are tired- just as we butch lesbians are of being constantly harassed and judged for expressing ourselves differently than the social norm.++++++++++++++++++++++and its wrong, I agree with you, as i have said myself, I have been at the hands of homophobia and have had harassment myself. It actually made me really poorly. So I totally get where your coming from. Femmes get it as well, its not just butch women. People assume were straight ...I actually get more comments from women about being a femme lesbian...go figure... I have no idea why, its just how its happened for me ...because we look feminine, we get stereotyped (which annoys the heck out of me) and then we can get comments from men, not that this has happened to me, but I know it can happen.Its no more right that you get harassed, than it is that a transman gets harassed.This is what I am saying, try and to see it from this view, if you can, with honesty, with all due respect. If you saw a website where fellow butches were being exposed, as gay...and 'were losing our women to the gays' and then Id'd, especially people you know. How would you react? Would you think its right? How would you honestly feel? Wouldnt this site have endangered the people you care about, laid them open to 'gay bashing' or 'hate crime'. Wouldnt you do something, anything to stop them? Wouldnt you at least try to have a voice, wouldnt you defend them. Show them you care?I know I would...I know I would be in there fighting tooth a nail for that. I know that if my fellow lesbians were in trouble and needed my help, I'd roll up my sleeves and I would be in there ready to do battle. Against people who are doing that. Because to me its wrong.Like I have said, I dont have a problem with how Dirt feels, I respect her opinion, for which she is wholly entitled to have, just as you are.However I do not agree with using photos of transmen, and Iding them is the right or moral thing to do. These young men have done nothing to harm you, or Dirt. Even if you dont agree with their lifestyles (as many dont agree with ours). They deserve to feel safe.This kind of thing should not be coming from within a community who should no better. IMO.
"butch dykes are 'exposed' all day everyday in the world. and others do harrass them regularly. they cannot hide behind facial hairs and flat chests and bodies that have been altered that better hide them from society."There are larger implications for passing as male in the world and not all of them involve power. FTM's aren't just butch dukes with beards, and no one who had ever transitioned to "male" would ever think that way about it.
Betty what are you on about with all your "poor outed trans being endangered by being pulled out of the closet." What a load of hooie. First of all, the photos on this post have no faces attached. And anyone on here who HAS had their faces shown are NOT the closet cases you seem to think they are. Quite the contrary, the are self-appointed spokespersons for the trans-trend community, and thus they are open to discussion. Dirt hasn't hid in the bushes outside their home snapping pictures. Most of these ftms have their pictures and videos alllllllllll over the web. And thats just the way they like it! So stop your false concern trolling. No one's buying.
"There are larger implications for passing as male in the world and not all of them involve power. FTM's aren't just butch dukes with beards,.." Some of them are hetero girls with beards passing as male.
@Betty April 7, 2011 8:16 PM"You would defend a baby dykes right to be whom they want to be, no matter their age, so why is a young transman different?"The difference is lesbians do not have to alter their body or take hormones to be lesbians while trans people have to do both to express their "true selves"(How many times has this got to be said)"If their not old enough to know their own mind, then surely baby dykes arent either?"You cannot compare a young women experimenting with lesbianism to young "trans" people altering their body permanently and taking hormones. "Trans" people undergo permanent changes while young experimenters who dabble in lesbianism can back out of it if they come to see that it is not who they are.
@Anon"Is the real issue with ftms is that they gain male privilege after transitioning? If they transitioned and stayed at the same social status would everything be okay?"No that is one part of the issue.The other aspect is that by maintaining that they need to transition to be "their real selves" they are reaffirming and conforming to societal stereotypes of what masculine and feminine is and who can express those traits.
@ Betty and the Anon going back and forth--So, one of you has a ftm partner? I don't know how I'd handle that and I actually am bi. I've been with my female partner for like 11 years and I can say 2 things for certain on this matter.1) I would've fell in love with her regardless of gender; it's not that.2) I'd sure try if she was transitioning, even though in general I disapprove of the idea.But, transgender people take hormones and turn into someone else. I don't know how I'd continue to feel about my partner if she wasn't anymore who I fell in love with. Sure, I'm bi so it wouldn't at all be about protecting an identity.I think it would be very difficult to argue Dirt's core assertion that the narrow established gender definitions have contributed to this.In general, I'd say I feel tolerant toward transgenders at this time in life. Tolerance should not ever be confused with agreement.
trans people do not change when they start transitioning. Their physical appearance does but they are still the same person.
"1) I would've fell in love with her regardless of gender; it's not that.2) I'd sure try if she was transitioning, even though in general I disapprove of the idea.But, transgender people take hormones and turn into someone else. I don't know how I'd continue to feel about my partner if she wasn't anymore who I fell in love with. Sure, I'm bi so it wouldn't at all be about protecting an identity."This strikes me as being incredibly honest. I've questioned my own love for someone based on their continued identity or physicality. I have to believe that love is supreme. That being said, transition does change a person and I think that change can be untenable or unworkable. The disruption of a second puberty is inconvenient at best and I think only the best and truest loves can withstand it. I value and appreciate your contribution here."I think it would be very difficult to argue Dirt's core assertion that the narrow established gender definitions have contributed to this." I agree with you here. Humans are more complex than how we relate to our oppression.
"trans people do not change when they start transitioning. Their physical appearance does but they are still the same person."I don't think so because there are a lot of transguys out there (seeYT) who describe behavioral changes duu to their chemical imbalance changes like agressiveness or more sex drive or more dysphoria due to the upper surgery...So basically, you don't date the same person. And also socially you don't date the same person. It changes the way the social circle reacts to your couple. A lesbian couple is not valued the same as a straight couple.
"A lesbian couple is not valued the same as a straight couple."This is true. Let's call a spade a spade. I experience a much greater sense of safety in the world as I am now with my female partner than I would have before i transitioned.
Transsexuality cures Lesbianism.
Transsexuality is used to cure homosexuality in Iran. Homosexuality is illegal there. Transsexuality isn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXspR1iRlz0
I would believe transmen are real and are not lesbians in the closet once the so called straight guys ill stop dating women who self identify as lesbian or would simply stop go cruising in lesbian bars.
Do transguys who date women find dating lesbians contradictory to their identity and vice versa? I don't know any bio guys who date lesbians or vice versa. Most bio guys dream of it though. lol.
" Do transguys who date women find dating lesbians contradictory to their identity and vice versa? I don't know any bio guys who date lesbians or vice versa. Most bio guys dream of it though. lol.Sweetie, apparently the knowledge you have of biomales is limited to bad porn fantasy. Biomales partner with straight women because like any other human being on earth, they want to partner with someone who is attracted to who they are: male.
There are important issues in the lesbian community that need to be addressed. 1) there is a present segregation of race 2) a growing number of lesbians assuming femmes have to date butchs3) some lesbians thinking two butch women together are gross or the cause of to femmes together are butch women not doing their job4) growing number of lesbians taking on stereotypical heterosexual roles5) older lesbians discrediting younger lesbianThese issues have nothing to do with to do with ftms. It is lesbians who show these views on YouTube and sometimes even in public. We need to educate our own lesbian community and unite together.
6/ Lesbians transitioning to Males hence emptying the young lesbian community either through transition or by chasing lesbians
look betty you need to realize that your experience is YOUR experience and def not a popular one. i've dated many (25+ butches and ftms)- so i feel like i can have my say as well on all this. and i can tell you one thing. going through transition does change the personality. i've witnessed it time and time again. i can only of course speak from the ftms that id'd as butch lesbians prior to transition. i cannot speak to other outside of that because i am a lesbian, and straight girls were not really much of my circle.however, i can tell you than on more than one occassion transition has greatly changed a person. from even to what they themselves were attracted to. ive seen butch dykes who were never into men at all, turn into self id'd 'sissy' boys who want to be bottomed by bio men. tell me that that isn't change?! really. your lovely little perfect world sounds roses and rainbows for you- and really that's great.but you really need to recognize that that's just not how it's like for a lot of others.the other thing i can say is this. the ftms that i've had experience with are extreamly focused on themselves to like a obsessive degree. that it really makes it hard to have a meaningful, close, equal relationship in many ways. it's hard to be with someone that has such tunnel vision of focus that is only on themselves.
Betty - you are an idiot. Dirt please come back and delete this moronic deluge and put us all out of our misery!
Anon,No worries. Betty and whoever he/she really is clearly proved he/she is a troll. Pretty fucking pathetic I have to fucking babysit here the day we bury my nephew.Thanks to all the commenters who defended common sense in my absence. I wanted to get on here last night, but literally didnt have the strength to deal with any bullshit.dirt
@RynoPerhaps you are lost in translation? Where on this blog is the slander?Is the IQ vault of the FTM community really this poor? I only ask because time and time again it seems that questioning why women transition somehow equates to hate and tortious acts?? And to answer your question, I work in a place that caters to FTM and the queer community. No I would never be rude to these patrons as many of them I consider friends. However I don't agree with transitioning as I believe, like many on this blog, that there are numerous social and environmental factors that inform body dysphoria and transitioning is not the solution.So just because I don't agree with transitioning, should I hate my friends who have? Please friendly tolerant neighbourhood transguy Ryno - enlighten me, thanks.
Anon above-i agree. many lesbian feminists have issues with the sex industry. they don't hate the prostitute/stripper, etc- they hate the society that has limited these girls choices (many times) into having to go into that line of business.so as lesbian feminists we set up support groups, group homes and workshops to teach them other skills so that if they desire they can leave the sex industry. and we try to help the younger girls coming up to avoid that lifestyle.
I'm sure Ricky is looking down from heaven (or up from hell) at this blog and is glad that his face smothers the home page of this hateful shit. *insert sarcasm here*
Comments like this prove just where the "hate" lies, not only against the women you naturally are, but all women.dirt
"Youkbow what said"You are not a human being to write shit like this . Another proof transguy are mentally ill :(
Sorry for your loss Dirt.
@betty:@DM men are raped too you know, its not just women. In fact murders by women are on the up! Womens prisons are overflowing. Crimes commited by women are on the up.OMG BETTY! you're nuts sister. in the US alone, it's believed that around 99% of perps of rape are male (source: http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html). less than 10% of victims are male. the overwhelming survivors here: WOMEN.WAKE UP!
I don't agree with what Dirt writes either, but stop using her nephew's death as ammunition, it's sick, so shuthefuckup. Anyone else who decides to use this as an attack, you're a moron and a disgrace to our community...
anons above-again a beautiful display of yall's maturity.bravo. it's kinda funny cause all of these comments totally prove how childlike you still are. so infantile.
I've just come out of a terrible trans experience, and am looking for a little guidance...I was in the hospital for 2 weeks after seeing a photo of lynn...contact me at crazy-allergy-to-ugly-women.com
I post here and I am not Lynn or her friendsI am in NYC and have been trying to speak up against the FTM phenomenon for years before finding this somewhat upsetting but addictive forum
Alright, i admit this is disturbing because its super graphic and extreame. But Dirt. Its their bodies, let em do what they want yeah?
who else thinks dirty makes anonymous posts pretending to be transmen?
hey mouse! knew you were from new york, but thought you started monitoring this post after researching abuse rates against lgbt women in the US...thanks for the correction.
"who else thinks dirty makes anonymous posts pretending to be transmen?"I think so!
Why do people keep insisting that Dirt is a failed trans man, trans man in denial, or future trans man?A "masculine" haircut and "masculine" clothes do not imply a "male brain."She certainly seems proud to be a woman. I don't think many trans men are proud of that; if anything it's the trans women who are. [I'm sure someone is going to claim she's really FTM and all her female pride is reaallly AGP or some such...] I think she comes off as rough-edged because she is expressing herself, and trying to express her butch femininity in a culture that denies that butch is feminine.But the anti-transition essays don't help. They're only going to feed speculation that she is trans, one way or the other.
i never said she was trans, just a might handsome woman.
i post here as well and have never met dirt.i could just as easily say that the pro-trans anons are all one person as well...
You T addicts sure do have some nasty, nasty cases of testosterone poisoning. Just look at the hatred coming through. But these are all "happy," "healthy" people. Yes, the kind of happy, healthy people who are abusive and eventually kill their partners in a fit of testosterone-driven rage. We're so very impressed at how far you've "transitioned" into bright, shiny happiness.
"You T addicts sure do have some nasty, nasty cases of testosterone poisoning. Just look at the hatred coming through. But these are all "happy," "healthy" people. Yes, the kind of happy, healthy people who are abusive and eventually kill their partners in a fit of testosterone-driven rage. We're so very impressed at how far you've "transitioned" into bright, shiny happiness."LMFAO at this comment!
Wow, I've never abused my fiancee'!!! Now we're murderers too??? OMFG!!!
Anonymous said..." Do transguys who date women find dating lesbians contradictory to their identity and vice versa? I don't know any bio guys who date lesbians or vice versa. Most bio guys dream of it though. lol.Sweetie, apparently the knowledge you have of biomales is limited to bad porn fantasy. Biomales partner with straight women because like any other human being on earth, they want to partner with someone who is attracted to who they are: male.April 8, 2011 6:19 AM First don't patronize me. You don't know me or my knowledge of straight biomales. You are ASSuming too much. Second I never illustrated that biomen partner with lesbian. I illustrated a fantasy. A lot of biomen have fantasies about lesbians. How hard is that to comprehend? I just had this exact conversation with a guy last night! And no it was not my only conversation with a guy either on the same subject. But I guess its not too hard understand since you clearly just repeated what I said back to me.
Some young idiotic transkids and their friends decided to troll all over this blog at a time where Dirt is dealing with the lost/burial of her nephew. You nutjobs are only further escalating it. Some of you are sick! I have seen some hateful comments from non-trans people but some of the absolute WORSE comments have come from some of the nutjobs in the trans community. WTF!
And stop tracking ip adresses. It's fruitless, as most are competent enough to have an ip blocker.
I don't believe that she deletes comments because they are truthful. I think she really does want to hear some of what we have to say. I believe that she just deletes what she does not believe to be true. Or things that can not be backed up, like personal trans opinion.
"Anonymous said...Ryno stop threatening Dirt, you obviously want to rape her.April 7, 2011 6:24 PM"It's sad this comment was allowed and my defense wasn't. Throwing the accusation of rape around is not a very mature way of responding to a man you disagree with.To those who defend dirt, toy claim all us trans-allies are immature. None of you are any wiser.Unfortunately, I think Dirt likes the attention and hits she gets from all this arguing and promotes only the comments that prove her point. Reminds me of a video a crazy televangelist who interviewed the most retarded atheists he could find to prove his point.
'... a man you disagree with'too f'ing much!
People are going to focus on appearance, high risks of complication, and the lack of bottom surgeries done. It is to be expected. No matter if it looked like a biomales or terrible surgery the discussions here will still be the same.
@Curious April 8, 2011 3:48 PMAll web sites/blogs track your ip..not just dirt...Besides you can't tell squat from it except the city and the nearest access point for the ISP. The ISP itself does give out addresses etc unless the are forced to legally.
@RadicalesbianHowever, you are aware that those statistics are reported rapes correct? It is suspected that the majority of men do not report being raped. Which means that there is an even higher number of unreported cases, both female and male victims.Also, Dirt, i am very sorry about your nephew. Over the summer I also lost someone very special to me, and I know how bad it hurts. Stay strong! Who else is going rile up us transpeople? XD
You can easily hide even your IP with TOR or other anonymous proxy service. Be sure to also set your browser to clear cookies when you close it.
@Anon April 8, 2011 9:34 PM"You can easily hide even your IP with TOR or other anonymous proxy service. Be sure to also set your browser to clear cookies when you close it."It really does not matter at the end of the day because your IP tells very little, even if you hide it using a proxy, the ISP whtat hosts the proxy could be served with legal papers to reveal the originating ISP and that originating ISP could be served with legal papers in turn as well.Ultimately, the only way to be totally stealth is to go to an internet cafe and blog from there if you are paranoid about dirt or anyone...
@Ryan,There needs to be a serious study into FTM and corresponding IQ levels.I don't say this based on hate, but I really am beginning to believe that a large majority of FTM's are devoid of any critical thinking or analytical skills. Seriously, these are just the facts I see on this blog, it is littered with comments by FTM's that are so intellectually deficient that not only is it very sad but also frightening.As such Ryan, your little spiel about the rape comment makes no sense?? The commentor who wrote that was being sarcastic - Dirt often gets threats of rape from FTM's. That was a comment on your comment - basically from another FTM saying not to say your piece as Dirt will think you are threatening to rape her, ... she was being sarcastic and it was a 'tongue in cheek' comment. Your reply is merely evidence of the intellectual void in the FTM community I am talking about!Seriously, so much shit goes over the heads of FTM's on this blog. It baffles me how people who cannot understand simple reasoning and lines of logic are actually allowed to devastate their own bodies in such a way. Are they given IQ tests before beginning the transition process because they damn well should!
"Alot of men don't report being raped." Seriously, who is educating our young women that they grow up to believe shit like this? The U.S education system has ALOT to answer for!
And how exactly is Ryan going to rape someone with her vagina???
Actually, this stuff almost looks normal now since I recently discovered the distrubing 'tribes' of extreme body modification - including surgical castration, facial surgery to look like demons, big plates inserted into holes in cheeks, scarification and silicone implants etc. You think you've seen it all, I realise now I really havent...there are some really fucked up people up there. Like really.
yes is is similar to other body-modification weirdnessbut imagine if people who think they should have been born with tails or whatever were embraced by/forced their way into the homosexual community- that's about as much sense as LGB+T makes to me
Healthy arms have already been amputated by doctors treating BIID "Body Integrity Identity Disorder". People who call themselves Transabled. And have an internal disabled "identity". They call naturally disabled people "cis-disabled". And no, I'm not joking. Google it!
I've been a on again off again reader of this blog since it was mentioned by AlionsFear and I'm really on the fence(in more ways than one). I really don't like coming to this blog b/c you say silly things like "be careful that trans guy might rape you" but you do have the new and transitioning page and I love that.The age at which trans people are transitioning is ALARMING but if it makes them happy why not? Besides if you took count of all the ftms and transmen on youtube and elsewhere it would be maybe 4,000. To be fair lets just say there is as many as 40 to 100 thousand. That is just a minute portion of the population. Its really not that big of a deal.I think you are deadly correct about the eyes though. Its something that most transguys won't talk about b/c well it is hard for them to see this effect as negative. I was in a relationship with a trans guy once who did suffer from small acne and also a slight slanting of the eyes. She/He was still very beautiful but this was a noticeable effect.
@Everyone,Please dont feed the trolls, or your comments along with, will all be removed.dirt
"it is littered with comments by FTM's that are so intellectually deficient that not only is it very sad but also frightening."Have you not seen the ignorant rantings of trans-haters here? Are you intentionally ignoring the articulate and substantiated arguments of ftm commenters here? Do you only see what you want to see? I guess so. The suggestion that ftm's have no critical analysis or that we suffer from a substandard IQ is condescending. There may be a correlation between ftm's who are foolish enough to believe that anything will be gained by speaking their truth to people like you. Are you expecting that all of us graduated from some elite women's studies program paid for by her rich parents? Do you believe the importance of your critical analysis eclipses the experience of any single human? I'm starting to believe that all ivory tower "critical" analysis comes from the anger of privileged people's personal entitlement, not from any actual desire to change power systems. That's why so much feminist rhetoric doesn't speak to regular people.
@Anon April 9, 2011 4:52 PM"Are you expecting that all of us graduated from some elite women's studies program paid for by her rich parents? Do you believe the importance of your critical analysis eclipses the experience of any single human? I'm starting to believe that all ivory tower "critical" analysis comes from the anger of privileged people's personal entitlement, not from any actual desire to change power systems."The original poster spoke about IQ NOT education, those are to very different things. You took that and went on a tangent about higher education and priviledge and implied that the OP was elitist and entitled. That is projection of the highest order. Your post is ironic because on another blog entry on this site a pro trans poster stated that one should not comment on academic studies unless they supplied their "credentials". So it appears that some trans proponants are elitist too."Are you intentionally ignoring the articulate and substantiated arguments of ftm commenters here?"And"Do you believe the importance of your critical analysis eclipses the experience of any single human?"Okay lets look at these comments. On one hand you speak of "substatiated arguements then you imply that personal experience is just as important...which is it?Also, I have seen very little substantiation by pro trans posters beyond "this is my personal experience therefore it is true and all the proof anyone would need".
Anon @ 4:52pmI think you just proved my point.Nothing more to say but thankyou to Canadian for trying to explain how you did.Geez Dirt, Good on you for staying strong on this important issue, I would have thrown my hands in the air by now.
Thank you Clare.dirt
@ClareWhile I hate to ruin your argument, putting quotations around something generally means a quote. So when you put that I said:"Alot of men don't report being raped."When I actually put:"It is suspected that the majority of men do not report being raped."That seems to me, that you are trying to make me seem almost....presumptuous. Now, of course, I know you wouldn't do that, because on this blog we have civil discourse, correct? I eagerly await your reply. But, not too eagerly though. I have a life too.
Canadian and Clare, I don't think either have addressed my points or displayed the low IQ of trans posters.Feminism itself has had a bumpy trajectory and within my lifetime I have witnessed several mutations. We used to exclude butches from our consciousness-raising sessions and enforce androgyny. That was a terrible mistake and pushed away allies who did not feel androgynous. We invalidated butch-femme relationships. We ignored class and race for as long as we possibly could because we could not answer for our own privilege or address other kinds of oppression. It's been less of an upward trajectory and more of a wobbly cart path with a huge learning curve and alot of crow to eat. I have absolutely no reason to suspect that a feminist argument against ftm transsexuality is either enlightened, forward-thinking, radical, rational, or logical. If you spent less time angry about what you are personally being denied and more time trying to bridge gaps of identity across all fronts to make change, THEN your arguments might at least sound valid.
going through with transition is a privilege thing. being so preoccupied on ones own self - to this degree is a privilege. period. i don't get how anyone could be so focused on themselves to such a extreme and not call it a mental disorder. it's privilege plain and simple. get over yourselves! grow up and focus on someone else besides yourselves and your own self loathing- if and when you do, you will notice that maybe your body isn't so bad after all.
"going through with transition is a privilege thing. being so preoccupied on ones own self - to this degree is a privilege. period. i don't get how anyone could be so focused on themselves to such a extreme and not call it a mental disorder. it's privilege plain and simple. get over yourselves! grow up and focus on someone else besides yourselves and your own self loathing- if and when you do, you will notice that maybe your body isn't so bad after all."I would rather be "self preoccupied" than nose around other people's business and meddling in their lives and their decisions. No thank you, i choose the former.
@Rayne - another FTM proving my point. Yes babe, the main issue here is insuring you use the correct quotation marks while citing another blogger.*throws hands in the air*Anon @7:35pm - I'm not sure what your point is? Nothing you have written makes sense, sorry.
I do hope you realize I was also being slightly sarcastic? It tends to be lost when put in writing. Sarcasm that is. Anyway, I don't wish to argue, so I'll leave you all with a, "Good night!" : D
Follow-up to a past comment, a hateful one at that. Instead of posting this blog in a hateful manner. Why not try to simply vindicate the positive-ness as seen in your video about being butch. It would work much better than hating on these FtMs an the fact that an extent of transsexuality exists. IT HAPPENS. Calling all these transmen as she and cross out men. That's simply rude. You're not their brain. Indeed society does cause this transfad to continue, but really. Instead of constantly making yourself appear as hateful and disrespectful to a community that is obviously a sensitive bunch. Don't degrade; accept, tolerate, and spread the word on the power of being a butch comfortably.
"Instead of constantly making yourself appear as hateful and disrespectful to a community that is obviously a sensitive bunch."Look at the many death threats and insults directed at her. It's a sensitive bunch? No! It's just a bunch of crybabys who are whining if someone is questioning their actions.
@ Anon 11:59 PM "i don't get how anyone could be so focused on themselves to such a extreme and not call it a mental disorder. it's privilege plain and simple. get over yourselves!"Which is it then? Privilege or a mental illness?Listen, there are people with GID like myself who are willing to explore different possible causes. I guess we're exactly Dirts target audience because we are still open to the possibility of alternatives to transition. I feel frustrated every time someone says GID is unequivocally caused by X Y or Z (with no scientific backup) and even more frustrated when someone contradicts themself in the same paragraph!
The worst of this is that the taxpayers of the society, at least in some cases, are paying for this. To what end? It's a waste of resources. None of these people need their arms hacked up, rolled up and sewn over their pussies...WITH THE PUBLIC PAYING FOR IT. Meanwhile many people struggle to afford their homes, food and health care that's actually needed to live. This is a travesty of epic proportions. The public taxpayers should be more aware of where their money is being spent!!!!
About the IQ thing - IQ is innate intelligence, they don't teach it, you just have it. It's a fact of life, some people have low IQ's and that's why they can't comprehend certain concepts. I stand by my original IQ statement and how I genuinely that IQ is a big factor involved in people not being able to understand Dirt's point of view which, let's face it, is hardly the most outrageous, far fetched thing ever to be suggested. If you want to transition do, no problem, just admit you've been psychologically damaged to some degree. Let's let the truth stand at least.
"Anon @7:35pm - I'm not sure what your point is? Nothing you have written makes sense, sorry."Don't be sorry, it doesn't make sense because you don't want to hear or admit that feminism has been flawed and still is. What I'm saying DOES make sense if you have a critical brain and not just a brain indoctrinated by whatever phase feminism is going through. My point is, I'm not trusting yours or any other feminist critique of ftm transition because you will come to eat your words later, when you realize you are speaking of an experience you can not know. You have no humility.
HJK-"Which is it then? Privilege or a mental illness?"many times both actually. just as mental illness is certainly over prescribed so is this. sorry but if more people were more concerned with things outside of themselves- we wouldn't see so many people on antidepressants etc.plain and simple- it's just too much focus on self. and ego.
"If you want to transition do, no problem, just admit you've been psychologically damaged to some degree. Let's let the truth stand at least."Sure, I'll do that when lesbians admit they have just been hurt by men.
Anon @4:59Nup sorry, still don't see your point or what you're trying to say and I don't think the reason is a lack of humility on my part?I, like everyone else was born into a society. For me, feminism is the truest reflection of our society (for both men and women) of all the theories I've tried to comprehend and it is difficult to find 'flaws' in a reflection. You speak as if feminist theory is tangible entity on a pre-destined trajectory. This is what I don't understand.Perhaps you are confusing various 'women's' movemenets around the world with actual feminist theory, I'm not sure?
I was just reading this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/nyregion/11sexchange.html?ref=nyregionIt's about a transman who was fired from a job related to drug-testing urine from males in lavatories,It's a little bit interesting but this is what jumped out at me:“As long as I’ve been a person, I’ve lived as a man,” he said in an interview. “At age 5, I did everything a boy did: I climbed trees, I played football, I played with trucks. Most of the people in my life, all they know is I’m male.”I do think this is the reason given by the majority of FTMs and I do think the logic behind this is totally faulty.
I was just reading this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/nyregion/11sexchange.html?ref=nyregionIt's about a transman who was fired from a job related to drug-testing urine from males in lavatories,It's a little bit interesting but this is what jumped out at me:“As long as I’ve been a person, I’ve lived as a man,” he said in an interview. “At age 5, I did everything a boy did: I climbed trees, I played football, I played with trucks. Most of the people in my life, all they know is I’m male.”I do think this is the reason given by the majority of FTMs and I do think the logic behind this is totally faulty.(I posted this in the wrong place earlier)
Sorry for your loss, Dirt.
I pay for my own testosterone and syringes. When I have my top surgery I will be paying 100% of it and so on. I'd be more worried about what other things that tax payers are paying for such as housing and feeding inmates in every single prison in the country and so on.
"Perhaps you are confusing various 'women's' movemenets around the world with actual feminist theory, I'm not sure?"Wrote a lengthy response to this, but it disappeared. It's interesting that you say that it's hard to find flaws in a reflection. Do you think that could go for other people's reflections that give way to other ways of looking at gender? When you say that feminism is the truest reflection of society for both men and women, are you speaking for men?
"At age 5, I did everything a boy did: I climbed trees, I played football, I played with trucks."What the fuck! There are no boy or girl things! What's wrong with these people?? So a girl can't climb trees? That's so fucked up it's unbelivable. That's trans logic.
"If you stopped demanding that trans people justify their existence or feelings to you"They do the same with people who don't agree with them.
I can't respond to your responses if my comments are deleted. Too much truth-speaking Dirt?
@Brandon so what? That is not the case for trans people, both male and female transitioners, in europe. They are getting expensive unecessary disfiguring surgeries on the public dime.
Anon @12:04amI am speaking for myself. This is my opinion. Rather than reply with rhetorical questions??? We could have a proper intelligent discussion. Perhaps you could begin by arguing mt point? So if you don't think that feminism is the most accurate or appropriate theory to explain the way our society 'is', what 'ism' or 'ology' do you think provides a better analytical framework for explanation?And hun, at its core our society is about GENDER!! That's what feminism identifies and seeks to de-construct. Perhaps on this point too, you could tell me what it's about if it isn't gender? Seeing FTM's transitioning is all about GENDER, one would think that feminism IS an appropriate theory to employ to discuss or evaluate this trend. Hence, this is what this blog is about.DO you talk in circles much??And yes, feminism is appropriate to men as gender roles/stereotypes/delineation ... whatever you want it, affects them too!
The results would have been better if the entire arm had been transplanted, from the elbow to the fingertips. Also, if they had been able to reconnect the nerve endings so that the elbow and hand still worked. Imagine having something like that in your pants, a dick that can bend at will, wave, do sign language, and fist and fuck all at the same time. It could be no worse than having an undefined stump sewn to your crotch. As for the arm in the photo, I will not be surprised at all if it ends up requiring amputation anyway. It could have been better used, let's call it "the handy dick."
can i remind people that this guy is probably showing the first stage of his phalloplasty. There can be up to five operations before it is finished. I find it unfair to judge the guys dick without knowing the full facts about his surgery