Mid Week Dirt Discussion-The NCLR

What do YOU think the NCLR (National Center for LEBIAN Rights) should be for???



  1. For lesbian.

    And the staff :
    should be women only !

    It shifted from its original mission for the unique opportunistic reason to serve its FTM director's career...

  2. It should be Lesbian run and focused.

    To me, the NCLR is another example of Trans/Queer/Gay taking over Lesbian space.

    But they are giving some back at least to Femmes. Isn't that nice. They can't include those terrible butches. Darn them for not transitioning and being the males they really are. *Last paragraph is dripping with sarcasm, if it wasn't obvious.* http://trans-health.org/content/femme-programming

  3. For lesbians, of course. Lesbians deserve their own group(s) without all of these strings attached.

  4. Bear, Unicorn, Hyenas...

    Wait !

    It is a lesbian center after all : why not trying advocacy and actions for lesbian for a change ?

  5. BR,

    This says it all: "Negotiating transgender and/or genderqueer femme identities"...SERIOUSLY???? WTF!

    Femme has ZERO, NADA, NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with trans ANYTHING!



  6. Minter is clearly opportunistic, I wonder if all the gay males working their now is partially a result of Minter's T taking?

    We all know what happens when dykes take T, they wind up at the end of some guys dick. The only thing "straight" about dykes who've transitioned is that they go STRAIGHT to the next dick!

    Rude, crude, but true!


  7. hello Dirt, when the poll will be over, will it be possible to archive the result in a post with graphic like a pie chart for example ?

  8. Anon@12:12,

    Will do and will post chart and add chart tags to archive in tag cloud.


  9. Hmmm we have 26 NO votes in the poll, why arent those folks coming in here explaining what they think the LESBIAN center should be for?


  10. "Hmmm we have 26 NO votes in the poll, why arent those folks coming in here explaining what they think the LESBIAN center should be for?


    They don't have enough balls :)

  11. When I look at the crap being promoted by these organizations like NCLR, I have to ask why our community has imploded to the extent where it is no longer recognizable to those of us who are dykes.

    I think some of it has to do with our socialization to be "nice". We need to quit being so "nice" and stand up and tell people what we really think. I also think that the "do your own thing, do whatever you want to do" ethos that's left over from the hippie days contributed to this situation. It got to the point that no matter how outrageous, ridiculous, or even dangerous someone's behavior was, that no one would confront it, because after all, they're just expressing themselves and doing their own thing.

    Perhaps the biggest reason for FTMism is lack of feminist consciousness, especially on a collective/group level. There is a real loss of any solidarity or concern for women. It becomes all about "me".

    Another obvious man-ifestation of the lack of feminist consciousness is how the trans ideology totally buys into the male/female sex role stereotypes. And the trans apologists think they are somehow being transgressive??? They've bought the whole pink/blue, Barbies/trucks mentality- hook, line and sinker.

  12. That one anon with the bad punctuation that keeps insisting the NCLR should be "for lesbian" is awfully stingy. Just one lesbian, huh?

    And the reason those of us who voted "no" on the poll don't bother posting about it is that Dirt doesn't publish our comments.

  13. everybody. if they're an organization willing to help a larger portion of people and not just lesbians, let them. change the name for accuracy's sake but other than that why should gbtiq people end up with one less group that will assist them because it is a "lesbian" group?

    and this? "Negotiating transgender and/or genderqueer femme identities" means transgender femmes (as in male to female femme lesbians) and genderqueer femmes (meaning a genderqueer person who is also identifies as a lesbian). its not that ridiculous.

  14. It should be called the queer center or the lgbt center.

  15. 'change the name for accuracy's sake but other than that why should gbtiq people end up with one less group that will assist them because it is a "lesbian" group?'

    Why not? There are trans rights groups, and there are intersex advocacy groups. Gay and bi men are pretty well covered by Gay, Inc., and as for those who identify as "queer"...that's been discussed here extensively. It's lesbians and those bi women who are partnered with other women who are left twisting in the wind. You appear to believe that there shouldn't be any groups that exist to help lesbians, specifically, as opposed to the entire alphabet soup. Why is this? There are advocacy groups for everything under the sun, and many of them have a specific focus.

  16. You people are all fucking crazy. Drink a beer and relax.

  17. @BR: WTF is that link? That is some ridiculous shit. Genderqueer femme? Trans masculine femme? That doesn't even make logical, linguistic sense. If being trans and all that is about moving beyond boxes, maybe they can think of some new words instead of taking *everything* from lesbians / women. Good ol' fashioned Lesbian Femme isn't even on that list - maybe she's included in the Other, since that's where lesbians are at in the "queer" community anyway.

  18. I think they should be for whatever they decide to be for. I don't own them and I'm not a member of there. If I wanted an organization to be strictly for lesbian rights, then maybe I'd form one.
    It would be best if they'd change the name though, to reflect their change, but I honestly can't be against any group that works towards equality for "everyone" otherwise I'd feel like I was in Animal Farm.
    You know, "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." and all that.

  19. Anon 11:45,

    Well, unless I'm misreading Dirt, one of her points is that our bodies don't determine our personalities although our personal histories do. And we don't have to change our bodies just because someone mistakes [female] butch for [male] masculinity.

    That leaves me wondering how much of butch and femme draw on that shared female personal history and how much is gender-independent. I can't really imagine being butch or tweener or even myself if I was male.

  20. Obviously NCLR should actually focus on who their name implies: Lesbians.

    Since they hide behind the name yet show clearly in their mission statement that they support and advocate for the alphabet, they're misleading. Better just to call it like it is: They're fucking LYING.

    Were someone to of approached me asking for donations for the NCLR (without explanation), I'd of given money/time/whatnot.
    No way will I now.
    And since this has come to light, I'm going through all the organizations I'm involved with in some way and making sure who they are actually serving.

    I'm completely disgusted by them and the blatant contradiction between their name and their mission statement.

  21. Anon@10:11

    But Animal Farm is exactly what the NClR and all "queer" orgs are.

    Whether its MALEtf or ftMALE or gay MALE or MALE or f calling HIMself MALE or queers fucking MALES. Given all that MALEdom, do you REALLY think LESBIANS being naturally female are going to get an "equal" shake???

    Check the staff and past and present case loads at the NClR if you're unsure. My granny may have been an illiterate hillbilly, but even she knew "the proof is in the puddin"!


  22. 'I honestly can't be against any group that works towards equality for "everyone" otherwise I'd feel like I was in Animal Farm.'

    The NCLR doesn't work towards equality for everyone, it specializes in the legal problems of trans people and take on the occasional gay case.

    No sane organization, btw, actively tries towards the equality of everyone, for two reasons: no one has the resources to do that, and no one has the slightest idea how to make that a reality. (Saying "Everything will be perfect after the revolution" doesn't count.) Successful human rights organizations focus on the needs of specific groups. (If you ever watched Seinfeld, there's a reason George Costanza's fake charity was called "The Human Fund.")

    There's one group, women, that's always being told to put its needs behind those of everyone else. If they don't, they're considered selfish, or disloyal to their family, or their trade union, or their race, or their class, or even to fucking humanity itself. (How many hand-wringy middle-aged men have I talked to who scrunch up their sad eyes and say things like "But what I want is compassion for EVERYONE, and rights for ALL people, that's why I believe in HUMANISM, feminism is just so NARROW!") Lesbians get an extra dose of this with the expectation that we will carry water for gay men and "queers."


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