More Transmale Violations of Lesbian Spaces

 From a recent email, yet another violation of lesbian spaces by a trans/queer community member. What disturbs me more than this trans(man) using his queer (straight) wife to violate this lesbian parenting group is that when push came to shove, the lesbian parents as a majority acquiesced to the trans(male) shoving!

Trans(men) coming from a lesbian orientation clearly still see themselves as lesbians, and by the nature of lesbianism itself, women as well, despite all their protests to the contrary. I say this not to be a jackass, but because of the large number of lesbians who transition that refuse to leave the comfort of lesbian/women's spaces. Other than some total pervert, what real man do you know that prefers to spend all their time in women's spaces, women's spaces both private and public?

This certainly goes against the "standards of care" regarding transgender/sexuals, the whole point of transition IS transition! As in going across, not putting one foot in the water while the other foot stays dryly on land, thats called straddling, these women are straddlers. These are serious issues that need to be brought to the attention of the medical officials that treat this disorder,(yes I'm working on it) because clearly transition isnt working, at least with regards to the lesbians transitioning.

Now, that aside and more directly to the email, lesbians need to grow a damn backbone. There is nothing wrong with having LESBIAN ONLY spaces! Even if you are a lesbian who supports trans issues, it doesnt make you "transphobic" to demand bio lesbian only spaces, it makes you a lesbian and nothing more. How dare this trans(man) or any trans(man) utilize patriarchal tactics to abuse lesbians with in order to gain (remain) access(ed) to lesbian spaces. This trans(man) also added insult to injury by parading his "legal marriage" in front of this lesbian only group who do not have the legal couples/parental options that he has. That to me goes far beyond poor taste and well into the realm of straight male privilege, not exactly lesbian is it?

For as much as it pains me that there are females out there suffering due to being convinced that they are "born in the wrong body", I make no fucking excuses for those women who've transitioned who then utilize their new found "male privilege" to abuse/invade lesbian/women with. It isn't "transphobic" for lesbians to accept/view/treat trans(men) as men by expecting those men to stay the fuck out of lesbian (women) spaces. And its a sick fucking mockery when trans(men) use "transphobia" as a battering-ram to lesbian spaces when there are trans people out there who've actually been murdered/assaulted to due transphobia.

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  1. Why on earth this straight couple is invading this lesbian group ?

    He defines himself as guy,
    She dates him -> she is straight

    and they should go to a specific transgroup or a specific straigth couples support group.

    Shame on him ! What a bad name it gives to transidentity ! Straight guys will not even dare doing half of it....

    And the lesbian who approved are silly: a woman who dates a man is not a lesbian anymore, she is bisexual and here she is straight. Stop pretending elephant are unicorns :D

  2. More proof that the whole "trans" thing is a total and complete farce. No science. No reality. No brains.

    I've come up with this too often locally: if you are REALLY a farking "man", then why continue to hang out with lesbians?

    And if you are partnered with a woman pretending to be a man, why insist on the "right" to press your non-lesbian life into lesbian spaces?

    I just don't even take any of this seriously anymore. These women, whether pretending to be men or pretending to be lesbians who love men, are simply screwing with the rest of our very real, very personal, and very specific reality.

    They are playing all sides of the coin - demanding lesbian space and energy while insisting on male privilege, re-writing lesbian reality and history as if lesbians are still tied to "males" one way or another, and so on.

    Truthfully, I no longer buy the "but they are hurting" argument. I was hurting too. Lots of butch and andro lesbians are hurting too. But we manage to deal with that in ways that don't turn around and screw or hurt other people.

    As long as "trans" equals "wipe out the real experience of normal women", I'm seeing it for what it is: a modern medical invention that doesn't "cure" anything except reality.

  3. Ok, two things that just happened this past week, other than my partner taking sick and having to go to the hospital for a few days...
    Well, I'm a DYKE DADDY, and had said shirt on at a street fair, a mostly gay/alternative street fair, and 5 different gay men said 'You're no 'Daddy'' as in Dyke Daddy...not that I want to be a dude, not that I at all PASS as a dude, nor do I want to...they really made fun of me, on 3 separate occasions, once at the street fair, once leaving it, once in the Castro. Partly it's cuz I took up my space as a Dyke Daddy and as an obvious way I 'pass', my breasts and hips are simply too big, and for one rare occasion I wore a womonhood threatened their manhood.
    Their TWINK manhood. The leather gay guys understood, and didn't challenge me, the twinks did. This is partly because alot of FTM's without the bottom surgery(and after seeing Dirt's info, we see why they don't have it) are crashing gay male sex spaces trying to 'pass' as 'gay men'..and the gay guys aren't buying it. I think this was part of the hostility towards me, even though in NO WAY do I appear trans, I am completely totally Butch Female, as you see in my pic. They are threatened, in a way they've never been threatened before by these FTM's many who DO NOT PASS, who in fact as Dirt has pointed out, are FTM cuz in no way are many of them even Butchy, so to Butch it up they grow hair by hormones, and have body surgeries to cut off their breasts, but still with the female, in some ways even queeny feminine attitudes.....a true Butch is so Butch she wouldn't even need to do ANY of this, and as Butches, we don't want to do gay dudes anyway...I also got kicked out of another group on 'feminism' for calling out FTM misogyny and of course accused of being 'transphobic'.

    So this situation is the obverse of that....this is the 'pregnant male' syndrome. "He" isn't enough of a mensch to keep either him or his wife out of Lesbian spaces, and has to crash the last few lesbian spaces we have...and what REALLY burns me up is the 'male' privilege he's taken on by legally marrying her..when in many states Lesbians CANNOT be legally married still. Fortunately in California we squeaked under that in the 5 months we were permitted to same sex legally marry, and at the moment our marriages are still legal. But nobody else can, because of Prop 8.

    So is this individual a dude or a dyke? Certainly confused, as the rest of them CANNOT have your cake and eat it too...maybe lesbians need to card to allow ANYONE into groups anymore, but then that would surely allow the MtF's to waltz in...and the FTM's that haven't yet changed their driver's license, but short of a blood or pee test for XX chromosomes and matching FEMALE identity what are us Dykes to do?
    No matter what sector of the community we're in???

  4. Quoting MA "are crashing gay male sex spaces trying to 'pass' as 'gay men'..and the gay guys aren't buying it".

    Of course, they are not buying it (and they are right): they love a fully male body and male genetalia.

    Nobody will blame gay male for being true to themselves and their sexual orientation...I support them as a lesbo and, if one day, we together do a protest to protect our gay and lesbian spaces from the other twinks, I would be proud of it, like if it was my first pride parade ;)

  5. I found this article on a ftm blog.

    It's just awful.

  6. Dirt, I rarely agree with you, but on the subject of trans men in women's spaces we're on the same page. There is no rational reason why men - especially straight men, with straight male privilege - should have access to spaces that lesbians have set aside for yourselves.

    Memo to my straight trans brothers: You're men. You're not lesbians. This is what you wanted. Now deal with the consequences!

  7. @Evan, agree with the memo but can you tell us more why on earth the now transguy still want to go in the women/lesbian spaces ?

    Is it fear of the unknown or just habits or a mission to convert other butches ? Is-it to find sexual partners (but in this case among "lesbian", I don't get the point of claiming they are "male" then o_0) ? Why ?

    Why not going to the sport bar down the block instead ?

    Just curious, just asking as I have never read or seen or watched (on Youtube) a convincing answer to this question despite the numerous trans blogs, speeches, collaborative & individual youtube channel...

  8. In the meantime, some trans/straight women couples (here the Fechter-Legget Ethan and Molly his wife) "play by the rules" and try to have a baby like any straight couple around the block who may have fertility issue...So yes, it is possible when you are trans to get out of lesbian spaces and live your own life as a male...

    See there:

  9. @Anonymous, I actually can't tell you for sure. I've personally always felt acutely uncomfortable in women's spaces, and i can't relate at all to the desire to be in them.

    I suspect that it's a combination of four things, in differing degrees for different people:
    (1) fear- they're scared little boys, and the lesbian community has taken on the Mommy role. They feel safe and don't want to go out into the real world and compete with men with actual penises and a lifetime of experience being men.
    (2) privilege - they enjoy the privilege of being a man among women, of seeing women's private interactions and conversations, of having their sexism ignored or excused by misguidedly trans-friendly lesbians.
    (3) sex - they (apparently) manage to have sex with lesbians or women who call themselves lesbians, they don't have to compete with other men, and they don't have to learn how to interact with women in straight spaces or build trust the way that other straight men do.
    (4) not being men - any misguided lesbians who transition but continue to identify as lesbians most likely want to continue to hang around lesbian spaces. I think these exist, although I fundamentally disagree with Dirt about them making up the majority of trans guys.

    I can't think of any good or defensible reasons why trans men should be in women's spaces. As far as I'm concerned, they're being privileged, spoiled little jerks. But I doubt they're on some mission to recruit...I think their reasons are wholly and entirely selfish.

  10. @Evan.
    Thanks for your answer. Super interesting.
    It shows that the medical staff & support groups are doing a lot on the surgeries and hormon side but nothing on the psychological side. Nothing is done by medical staff or trans support group to have those Tguys reaching the step where they will be able to get out & play as males. It seems that they never develop the social experience they need to be ready to compete against bio-males and so fully embrace they malehood.

    About your points 2/ and 3/, if us lesbians are stupid enough to swallow sexism from transguys and ask for more or to claim that woman who date transguy are still lesbo, well shame on us, not on those transguys...I don't mean they are right. I mean the lesbians who tolerate sexism and transguy cruising at L places are the ones to blame...

    For (4), nothing more to say. On this point I do agree with Dirt sorry ;o)

  11. @ Last Anon "It seems that they never develop the social experience they need to be ready to compete against bio-males and so fully embrace they malehood"

    Apparently the only social experiences on "bio-male territory" for Transguy are well documented:
    1/ using men's room
    2/ buying male's clothes
    3/ passing at the gym
    4/ sharing sexist jokes with male's co-workers

    It is so documented it looks like it is a part of a hidden checklist they have validate to gain their "transguys id" and to receive respect from the trans-community...It deserve a whole post on this blog as it is so standardised...

    If you find other documented invasion of bio-male spaces by transguys, please post it. But I doubt you will find some ;)

    For example, I have never seen stuff like:
    *having a FTM explaining how he enjoys malehood at a local sport bar
    *or how he cruses at straight disco/bars
    *or how he makes fruitfil online dating on straight websites...

    The point is most FTM DO NOT HAVE THE BALLS to INVADE BIO-MALE SPACES and to LIVE as STRAIGHT GUYS and to LEAVE the LGBTQI coccoon....

  12. I don't understand this. I don't understand this at all. I am a ftm, and even I don't get why a transguy would insist on being in a lesbian group. He is not lesbian. He is a straight man. These groups are set up for a purpose, to gain support from like people as yourself. He is not like them and neither is his girlfriend/wife. She can't represent as lesbian now since she is with a man. He might not be a bio-male but he's now a male. What are they thinking? Absolutely absurd if you ask me and this coming from another transguy. He needs to man up and go where he belongs instead of trying to infiltrate the lesbian community..

  13. This seems to be a big problem. You women are not the only ones getting pissed off about this. Other FTMs are pissed off too.

    I remember before some of these guys transitioned they would get upset if straight people showed up in the lesbian bar. Or when a straight guy would hit on them especially after hearing they were a lesbian. Now they've transitioned and they're worse than the straight man. They think just because they don't have a dick that they have a chance with a lesbian, which makes them even more persistent and annoying. Idiots.

    Look, I'm an FTM. I don't go to lesbian bars, baby showers, dykes on bikes rides, or any other space that belongs to a woman. Just as I wouldn't want my night with the guys being invaded. I also don't hit on lesbians.

    I know this guy that's always hitting on his (lesbian) friends girlfriends. WTF! They're lesbians AND THATS YOUR FRIENDS GIRL. What a fuckin fool. Honestly, I wanna knock him out every time i see it. Excuse my hostility.

    I know a lot of you totally disagree with the fact that FTMs transition, and because of this trans trend thats going on you're loosing a lot of your butch community but I just want you all to know that some of us FTMs dislike a lot of people in our own community as much as you do. And several of us stand up for you to them and would have your back if something ever came up.

    I wish I could meet more Old School Butches (as I call them) like Dirt, or Femmes for that matter. The lesbian community would be so much stronger if they looked out for each other in the way that they used to.

  14. DIrt,

    Maybe I haven't done enough digging. I'm wondering how you feel about transmen who are involved in drag king shows?

    Seeing an FTM in a drag king show is one of my biggest pet peeves.


  15. Interesting : at least 2 FTM have commented on this post (and a lot are expressing same opinion on their own blog) ie some FTM do not understand why other FTM "invade" women-only space and particulary Lesbian space...
    It seems that there is a convergence here and that the "lost FTM in our women world" do not have a good reputation and certainly not support from their own community. Those extremists are just giving FTM a bad name and play against their own community...

  16. Dirtywhiteboi67,

    You have a few good articles that we both agree with. This is one of them. I especially liked reading the one on the subject of FTMs and drag kings.

    I have friends that are FTM and it annoys me that some of them are hitting on lesbians. Are they trying to make them straight or bi or something?! It obviously does not work because sexual orientation does not change! If they are really a man then why in the world are they hanging out in lesbian spaces?! This is utterly retarded! If they want to be treated as men, then they ought to hang out with other men and MAN THE FUCK UP! Yet I get accused of not being 'man enough.' Frankly, I think they are a bunch of babies. Heck, I even have more male friends than them and I don't have to act like a big fat sexist douche like a lot of them do to prove their 'manliness'. Reason why I don't like reading some FTM sites on 'how to present manly', which according to them I'd fail at since I'm not a macho douchebag.

    I agree that you deserve to have your lesbian-only spaces without trans or other men.



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