Transmen at Smith College

This on Smith College's website-Smith btw is a female only college.

Here is a cap of the link above:

Smith college was made possible in the 1870's by way of moneys left for its creation by Sofia Smith, who hoped to give young WOmen an opportunity for higher education that young men had enjoyed for hundreds of years. To that end Sofia Smith said:

"I hereby make the following provisions for the establishment and maintenance of an Institution for the higher education of young women, with the design to furnish for my own sex means and facilities for education equal to those which are afforded now in our colleges to young men".

Given patriarchy's self serving pathological desire to "naturalize" what is female and what is male through gender conforming "norms" and those who willingly conform to those "norms" by means of some form of "transition", perhaps there is a need for these "questions and concerns" of "trans" students, but clearly a WOmen's college is NOT the place. No matter how you slice or dice it, the M in Mtf and ftM stands firmly for MALE! There is no shortage of co-ed or male higher education schools that Mtf's and ftM's can pledge and raise their "special rights" concerns there.

Not only are those spaces more appropriate for "trans" students, young women arent having to be short changed in a space that is suppose temporarily protect them from the inequality and male violence they will ultimately face in the real world, a space where their "questions and concerns" as young female students will not be diverted to some form of male "concerns" (Mtf/ftM) or plainly and out rightly ignored while male "concerns" (Mtf/ftM) take precedent as is obviously happening at Smith and other women's schools.

Also make note, that for every Mtf/ftM occupying a chair/room at Smith (and the like) a young women is missing.


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  1. women's college butchMay 11, 2010 at 12:31 PM

    Just wanted to say I wouldn't necessarily worry about transpeople taking women's places as applications are somewhat down throughout the system. Most girls just don't want to go to a women's college. Also Mt. Holyoke was started by Mary Lyon as a seminary, now it's one of the most liberal places on the planet, doesn't mean it's gone off track, just means times have changed. Also shout out to my neighbors at Smith.

  2. MEN in WOMEN'S college isnt "off track", its male privileged misogyny!

    And like you admitted regarding your historical ignorance a moment ago in another post, you want to educate yourself on Mary Lyon surely!


  3. I am a SMITHIE! Yo, represent. And, my first gf was a Smithie too. But guess what? She's a trans man now!! This is, actually, why I am so passionately opposed to MALE appropriation of lesbianism. But this is not story time!

    What I don't understand is, even if you can get away with it, WHY would you live the rest of your life in FEAR that someone is going to OUT your trans-ness by virtue of something as undeniable as the COLLEGE you chose to attend?? It's kinda stupid, if you ask me.

    And I fully agree: MALES do NOT have a right to matriculate at WOMEN'S COLLEGES. It is a blatant violation of the founders' intent. I OBJECT!

  4. women's college butchMay 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM

    All I said was that the college started out as a seminary, explain to me what is factually inaccurate about that?

  5. WC(b),

    You imply with the juxtaposition of "seminary" and "one of the most liberal places on the planet" that the changes that have occurred are night and day, which clearly if you are versed in what Mary Lyon outlined for the school, nothing could be further from the truth.


  6. women's college butchMay 11, 2010 at 3:57 PM

    Based on my knowledge Mary Lyon did not set up her school to be the overly sexual, liberal, agnostic place that exists today. That is my opinion. She was extremely progressive with regards to women's rights to an education, I will not deny her that.

  7. I agree with Undercoverpunk. Since being trans is even less accepted that being gay. Why would a transman have a degree from a women's college? I know that transfering colleges causes issues with credits but I would think that "passing" would be a vital part of being trans. Why risk it? Just my 2 cents.

  8. women's college butchMay 12, 2010 at 12:11 PM

    "I would think that "passing" would be a vital part of being trans."

    This is true some of the time but not always. There are a subset of transpeople who continue to identify themselves as trans after they have transitioned. It is a community or subculture much like the gay community. When in new situations they often "come out" as trans the same way gay people "come out" to new people. For them, it's not about passing but living as authentically as possible.

  9. Dirt,
    I clicked on the link you posted to the page, but I couldn't figure out the context and I'm really interested in the back story here. Could you email me or share the details of what you know about trans happenings at Smith? TransGENDER is fine with me, but I am NOT interested in transSEXUAL males or Legal-Status MALES at my beloved alma mater. Grrrr!

  10. Per WC(b)-"For them, it's not about passing but living as authentically as possible"

    Authenticity requires being true to ones nature, not counterfeit, faux, inauthentic, mimicry, all of which occurs when one changes pronouns, legalities regarding ones NATURAL sex, taking drugs to alter the appearance of your NATURE, having cosmetic surgeries again to change the appearance of ones NATURE, using/practicing aspects not of ones sex found on websites designed to aid in trans make believe etc etc etc.

    In short, one CANNOT acquire authenticity through artificial means.

    Simone Weil said "there is but little hope for the individual and yet the individual is the ONLY hope", Butch women are the true individuals and yes, we are hope.


  11. Dirt,

    "Authenticity requires being true to ones nature, not counterfeit, faux, inauthentic, mimicry, all of which occurs when one changes pronouns, legalities regarding ones NATURAL sex, taking drugs to alter the appearance of your NATURE, having cosmetic surgeries again to change the appearance of ones NATURE, using/practicing aspects not of ones sex found on websites designed to aid in trans make believe etc etc etc."

    Where do we draw the line?

    I take meds to control my asthma. I had surgery to remove my appendix. I tried makeup a few times; that felt inauthentic to me, so I don't wear the stuff. But it isn't inauthentic for everyone.

    I find it hard to say that someone else is being inauthentic, or isn't being true to herself. Andrea Dworkin dismissed womonhood as inauthentic. Janice Raymond dismissed butch and femme as inauthentic.

    I hope that if we work to build a culture where people can be authentic, and don't feel pressured to conform to certain roles, then people will be authentic. And if we build a culture where people don't judge womyn on our appearance, then people will have less cosmetic surgery.

  12. "I hope that if we work to build a culture where people can be authentic, and don't feel pressured to conform to certain roles, then people will be authentic. And if we build a culture where people don't judge womyn on our appearance, then people will have less cosmetic surgery."

    I heartily agree with this Anonymous, about not feeling pressured to conform to certain roles..and for me my Butch WOMONHOOD is NOT a role, as I took on all those feminine boxes at a very young age, and in fact was in an all girls school from 1st to 4th grade. They were very strict, it was one level below a full Catholic school with nuns and all, instead we had very strict teachers that were allowed to cane and beat us. We had to wear school uniforms that was strictly enforced. HOwever, there WAS a strong female bonding that happened, and I had many friends in that school despite my 'peculiar' habits of going around and kissing girls on the head....ah...well way before I knew I was a Lesbian....

    We played together on the playground, we were equals in many ways, and once I ended up in mixed schools I did not do as well. The girls were incredibly cliquish, and the boys were even worse, and I was teased relentlessly. I never made the kind of friends I had at the all girls school. MOst of my friends were either still from that school, or in activities I participated in other areas of my life. I was always a bit 'peculiar' because I didn't conform to those hetero feminine stereotypes, a hardcore tomboy. There was another in the mixed school, even more of a hardcore tomboy than me, but like the true divide and conquer, we never got along, it was competition. Never that same unity I felt at the all girls school.

    I went to a mixed college, but I joined the Feminist Alliance and Lesbian Caucus, and we put on our own womyn only events and lesbian events, and I started to feel that same kind of solidarity again that I had felt at the all girls school, without the punitive environment.

    I'd LOVE to go back to an all female college, like Mills, but I don't care to share that with either side of trans...and certainly not with those sporting beards, male attitudes and insisting on male pronouns. That has NOTHING to do with being Butch, and everything to do with copying men. When I came out the Butches were PROUD to be Female, Dykes, strong, liberated and most of all POWERFUL. Many had to overcome the shame of Lesbianism, until they hit the Lesbian movement, out of the bar scene where they no longer had to hate themselves...those lessons and the value of Lesbian only and women only space resonate with me today, and I'm glad to be going to two women's events, one strictly women only, the other female centered, this weekend!

    The genderqueer and FTM's have done far more damage to women only space than anyone I've ever seen. The MTF's compromise it with their male attitudes and thinking, though they are desparately trying to pass as female, and 'fit in'. Some better than others...but the strident trans in either direction with the insistence of no female only bathrooms, sports teams, dorms, rooms, spaces or places, I have no use for....we STILL get discriminated against both as women, and as Lesbians, whether Butch or Femme. And Butches no longer have their very womonhood recognized...yet us Female Identified Butches are rising and taking back what is ours...

    If you can't identify as FEMALE, then you DON'T BELONG IN WOMEN'S OR DYKE SPACES OR A WOMEN'S COLLEGE! Sexism and lesbophobia are still very, very real phenomena. They haven't disappeared along with us bio females just because they say so!

  13. Alright, I'm really confused by your statements maybe you can explain them me a bit more. Reading some of your blog i've noticed a few contradictions. In earlier post you go on and keep stating that FtM transgenders are not men (which is wrong), and then now you are say they are men and can't go to woman's colleges. Believe me I'm really glad that you are starting to admit that these individuals are men because they're nothing else. I just can't really understand this blatant discrimination, with these contradictions you are stating that these individuals belong nowhere that they should neither be accepted by women or men.

  14. I've read alot of the campus "treatises" on the trans communities and jeez - the sense of self-righteous entitlement comes oozing out of every sentence.

    It seems like the campus LGBT's are all getting queer, meaning the gay men stay gay men and the butches transition to FTM's - and whatever dykes are left, have to fend for themselves.

    I grew up a dyke, I grew up different - and you know what - I took the hard knocks (and still do) that comes with keeping your integrity of who you are. Instead, nowadays everyone has to capitulate to trans issues. If we don't allow Ftm's into women's spaces - we're "hater's" or "transpohobic".

    I have heard a very small minority of Ftm's say to the group at large, to get a grip and stay out of women's spaces, since now they are MEN! & kudos to them, the small few who advocate for the right thing.

    The real world isn't like the gender queer science fiction that only seems to exist in magical places like campuses.

    Intellectual relativism - if enough high falutin' academics barf up abstractions like queer theory, maybe they can start a department that will impart knowledge about dragons and unicorns. Hmmm....$$$$$

    Like it or not, we live in a world composed of gender binary.

    You're man - doors magically open - you're a woman, too bad. If you're a lesbian - even worse. We all have stories that prove this point.

    By virtue of my struggle every day, as a woman, I earned the right to a women's only space - such a michfest, or a women's only college.

    Only self-centered, entitled imbeciles would knowingly disrespect (the same thing they accuse us of)and trod over space I fight for every day.

    Respect is a two way street -

  15. Anon,

    "By virtue of my struggle every day, as a woman, I earned the right to a women's only space - such a michfest, or a women's only college"

    I couldnt agree more!


  16. To the other "anon" who clearly hasnt bothered to read let alone comprehend my blog.

    You may carve a tree into a table, but at the end of the day it is still a hunk of wood despite that all who lay eyes upon it see is a table.

    And as such (a table) it cannot be planted back into the forest as a tree, nor should it.



  17. "By virtue of my struggle every day, as a woman, I earned the right to a women's only space - such a michfest, or a women's only college."

    "Only self-centered, entitled imbeciles would knowingly disrespect (the same thing they accuse us of)and trod over space I fight for every day.

    Respect is a two way street - "

    So very well said Anon. 100% agreed.

    FA x

  18. If you don't allow EITHER mtf's OR ftm's into your space, you're transphobic, most likely. I mean, they can't both be men. I agree that ftm's in a women's colleges makes no sense, but shouldn't that then mean mtf's are allowed? After all, if mtf's are not women, then ftm's are not men.

  19. It's a mixed up world isn't it, in LGBT nation? No wonder the straights have had enough of us....cuz we've been sold down the river. MTF's are pseudo 'women', as FTM's are pseudo 'men'. None of it is real, all hormone induced nonsense followed up with cosmetic surgeries....but appearance counts for alot, and energies change, especially once the FTM's start taking the hormones and begin heavily identifying with the male. Thusly they lose their female status, something they reject about themselves can they possibly connect with the struggles of other women with that kind of body and soul hatred?

    MTF's have the assumption of male privilege within them from all the years they were raised as male, with some or all of that privilege(especially the late transitioners who had male careers, married to women AS MEN with very real MALE PRIVILEGE).

    Personally, I go for bio female space with bio females of all stripes who are PROUD to be female.
    MTF's compromise bio female space with their assumption of male privilege, very few 'pass' as females anyway, whether by appearance, size, height or heavily made up mannish facial features, especially the late transitioners. The ENERGY is plain different.

    FTM's compromise bio female space with their entirely male identifications, thinking and appearance. Both compromise and silence bio females,Dykes and Butches in very real ways, because women have been so trained to cater to men of any sort, whether they are past, present or future males...just by living in 2000 years of patriarchy. The MTF's are the Castrati, and that is how they've taken over matriarchal cultures and Goddess rites....the same with these days, compromising our women's spaces, places and colleges, unless they completely 'pass' and are on the 'downlow' with their identities. FTM's are like those who took on male roles in the past, by burying everything female about themselves, including the struggles all females go through, and treating them in the same virulently sexist ways men do.

    I don't think the founders of women's colleges meant to cater to those who no longer identify as female and have actively rejected that identity/sex, or those who had and engaged in male privilege, who are now wolves in sheep's to speak. It's no longer safe space for bio-females to explore THEIR OWN ways of being separate from M E N, whether they be past, present or future M E N!

  20. FtM's can "lose their female status," but MtF's can never lose their male status. "Energies change" for an FtM, but not for an MtF. Male privilege can be gained, but never shed even when people see you as "woman". It's like testosterone, it works well going one way but going the other is much more difficult!

    I think the truth is more complicated, I don't think privilege works exactly like this. Yeah it can colour attitudes and behaviour and how we have been socialized counts for a lot (but not enough in the case of FtM's?), but socialization isn't something that is finished by the time we go off to college. It's ongoing...people change.

    Alternately, trans people of either biological sex are put into a third (and/or fourth) category that denies them the "privileges" of either gender.

  21. Then maybe they need to CREATE their OWN colleges to cater to their 3rd or 4th genders, rather than coopting women only space for their own selfish uses, and our time and energy WE NEED to connect with one Dykes, as women, as FEMALES.
    P.S. and personally I don't want to hear all the transitioning surgery/hormone talk either....genderfluid fine, but the whole business of breast bindings/taking 'T' or 'E' and the particulars of cutting off and sticking on body parts is not a conversation I want to waste my time around...I want to know what Dykes and women want out of life, how we can bond AS bio-Females and as Dykes, our pleasures, our ecstasies, our multi-orgasmic capabilities with our very intact bodies that aren't compromised for the sake of 'fitting in'. There is a psychic, emotional as well as physical integrity to keeping the body intact(with the exception of a car accident, cancer or other devastating disease one has no control over).

  22. That's what body dysphoria is though...your brain has one mental "map" of how your body is supposed to be put together, but your body doesn't match...resulting in pervasive feelings of physical "wrongness", "phantom" feelings etc. So the "integrity" of an intact body that you speak so highly of, some people never experience. You shouldn't assume things about "body and soul hatred" either...we should never assume that our experience is universal, or that we understand how others relate (or should relate) to their bodies.

    Most trans people do not identify as a third gender. The vast majority identify as women or men. But above all, trans folk are still PEOPLE and shouldn't be shut out of all social institutions. Legally speaking, gender is a class system, right? You have rights as a member of one class or the other. People who can't, or don't, claim membership in one class or the other have little space to exist in, legally and socially. If you're neither male nor female you don't get to join any sports teams or feel safe using any bathrooms or go to "men's schools" OR "women's schools."

  23. Poppycock...I've heard it all before. The militant trans movement has done just about everything it can to destroy women only space, and gotten young dykes/butches, ect to identify as 'queer' and want 'queer' space, rather than identify with the dreaded 'woman'. I don't want to share my bathrooms with M E N, I've done enough of that on the job and I see just how nasty they leave their outhouses, and the misogynist woman hating and homophobic writings on the wall, NO THANKS. Have your gender neutral bathroom if you must, but don't deny I might want one that is women only, and not come behind nasty M E N with it's pissed filled smell. They can't even let the toilet seat down!

    I don't believe in the whole 'body disphoria' thing, that too is learned. Believe me, I had it as a kid, it's called SEXISM. I in no way wanted to be a 'girl', because being a 'girl' meant wearing dresses, being powerless, not being the hero, having to play dolls and house and domestic chores, and the work world was limited, as well as the roles females could inhabit, otherwise they/we/I were thought of as 'unwomanly', 'unseemly', 'unfeminine' and 'don't you want to be a little lady?' NO. I crossed out the term girl and she and put he and boy in my textbooks. I hated that we were being trained to obsess on our bodies, on babies, on appearing feminine, when nothing was further than the truth for me. For me, Feminism, with it's promise of complete female EMPOWERMENT, fueled my mind, and gave me pride and hope that I could do anything a boy could do. Unfortunately, due to persistent systemic and overt sexism and homophobia(anytime we should leave the feminine box) this promise hasn't been kept. Women, Butches, Females are still only 2% of the skilled trades, and many, many women have tried, and been kept out by the male systems intact. There's still the worship of male religions and dieties that keep women throughout the world down, and even actively anti-feminist, willing to liberate themselves AS WOMEN from the chains imposed by men and 2000 plus years of patriarchy.

    You can talk once the patriarchy is destroyed, the boot is off my neck. Nobody is 'gender neutral', that is a phallacy, a true phallic lie. Yes indeed. Genderfluid maybe, but never genderneutral. The answer is not in cutting off and sticking on body parts, the answer is in expanding what a women or man can do, dress in, inhabit themselves in a world that denies even tiny differences from the male-macho, female-feminine norm, imposed by politicians, religion, society, cultural and educational institutions, as well as the family itself.

    Then much of this so-called disphoria would disappear. Maybe a tiny few would decide to take it further, but I simply don't believe that the young boyish/masculine/butch women that are transitioning, strapping down their breasts, taking 'T' in droves would feel they have to if they could FULLY be themselves, and felt FULLY empowered as just the kind of women they are. The same would be true of the drag queens and effeminate men that get shit on physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, made fun of or beat up for defying the male is macho role, so therefore they must 'be a woman'.

  24. Anon,

    It sounds like you are trying to explain a "gender dysphoria" but are mixing two DSM categories 1) Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) and 2) Gender Identity Disorder (GID).

    BDD is a psychiatric disorder characterized by excessive preoccupation with imagined defects in physical appearance. People with BDD may spend an excess of time looking in the mirror and they may make multiple medical visits or have surgical procedures to correct the imagined defect.
    (see Med Terms for more info:

    For the majority of those presenting with "body dysphoria" as you put it, BDD would be a far more accurate diagnosis. Doctors prefer to align themselves with hetero-normative perceptions of gender and sexuality, hence diagnose these body hating symptoms and behaviours as GID in order to “correct” what society sees as an abomination. The medical establishment needs to be held to task and the numbers of false positive diagnoses of GID must end. Sadly, too many people are willing to rehearse the GID criteria in order to gain access to hormone treatment and surgery. But if doctors bothered to ask their patients “WHY?”, then perhaps they would see that in 9/10 cases, it is not GID but BDD brought on by societal pressures and policing of strict gender roles, rules and expectations training them to hate themselves and their bodies because they are not a walking stereotype of their gender.

    That is why women like Dirt and the rest of us are vocal about this. We need to add an alternative voice to the white noise that is enabling this medical, queer theory & GLBTQ sanctioned gendercide.

    FA x

  25. MasterAmazon,

    Regarding bathrooms, I think most of the messiness of men's rooms comes from the idea that "real men" don't sit down. The best comparison is probably between bathrooms which womyn in general are using, ones which trans men are using, and ones which trans womyn are using. I also think there need to be more and larger womyn's rooms.

    Regarding everything else, so much of the study of transsexualism comes from trans womyn describing (and reinterpreting) their pasts. That includes trans activist narratives, medical/psychological ones, and tell-all books (since Lili Elbe's time). The medical/psychological narratives reflect what the therapists want more than anything else. Very little of the study of transsexualism comes from other people describing their pasts.

  26. To clarify, I'm not the same anon as the two of you were replying to.


    Trans activists and the psychological establishment don't seem to have much to do with each other. Both use the same terms, like "gender identity," but give them different meanings. Some trans activists emphasize the sense that their bodies do not, or did not, fit, and/or a sense of being more at home in their bodies after starting hormones. Other trans activists emphasize aspects of gender roles. So there is group telling one story to feminists (body didn't fit, hormones felt better, pre-transition depression, etc.), another group telling another story to the anti-feminist mass media (always very feminine/masculine, pre-transition depression, etc.), and both groups telling a third story to the therapists (whatever they want to hear - which can be either of the above or the sex fantasies that Bailey, Blanchard, and Lawrence are said to prefer).

  27. I'm the anon from 3:59 pm above.

    I've seen some really messy women's bathrooms in my time and I'm pretty sure it's not all from trans women. :P Gender neutral bathrooms don't exist in a lot of places, so you can't just say "well, you lot - who don't even identify as part of this third-gendered category I want to put you in - can go build your own bathrooms." Never mind that this really would only apply to those who are openly trans, or do not pass. I understand people feeling entitled to know the configuration of another's genitals because we're USED to being able to tell, but that doesn't mean we have a right to know what's in somebody's pants. And that's really what this is about - policing gender.

    I agree completely about the need for alternatives, there is often a real pressure to transition, but if anything that comes more from the trans community than from "mainstream society" telling Butch women that they must really be men.

    I also think it's kinda, I dunno, imperialist? to assume we know how others relate to their bodies, and why, and to say that they're confused or lying, or to assume our own experiences are universal. I hope that doesn't come off as an appeal to political correctness because that's not how I meant it.

  28. Let's get real. REAL MEN mark territory. Period. Whether bio male living male, bio male living as 'female', or trans male imitating bio-male...but 20 years in the trades having to use the outhouses of men, it's NASTY, and it's all about marking territory, the primate animal most men are. Get them around each other(at least the straight version, and in some venues, like gay street fairs, the gay version too), and they use their power of pissing thru their penises standing up to mark territory, sometimes that territory being each other, or the puddle on the floor. And then the territory of the outhouse walls, with it's nasty depictions of women reduced to tits and cunt and penises fucking them, or racial/ethnic slurs or homosexualizing those they don't like.

    Go to a women's outhouse on the jobsites which is LOCKED from the males, and it's pristine, smells nice and is clean with very little graffiti.

    Go to San Francisco and to a 'gender neutral' bathroom which used to be a women's room or men's room but no more, and it can be just as nasty.

    NO THANKS, I want my bio-female SPACE, even if it just comes down to bathrooms and once a year women's festivals!

  29. And trans women, being "REAL MEN", stand up to piss and mark territory? Give me a break!

  30. The ones that still have penises do...or at least the emotional equivalent if they don't...the prurient eyes in a women's hottub...I can't stand transapologists, who NEVER will confront the animal behavior of males, past, present or potentially future males....

    And yes, there are STILL plenty of MTF's who retain their dallywhackers, while on the outside having pumped up breasts and feminine clothing and makeup..but all those cosmetics don't change what's underneath!

  31. MasterAmazon,

    Judging by the top surgery thread, the cost, quality, and risks of any surgery might be more important than male penis-fetishism.

  32. Anon,

    Given your IP addy, thats interesting coming from you.


  33. I don't understand why an FTM would want to be at an all-female college. Maybe it's just because I, a transwoman, see no reason to go to an all-male school--or to be part of any all-male institution, for that matter.

    This isn't to say that I hate males. I just feel that, having decided to live as a woman, I just can't see being part of a male institution. And why would they want me, anyway?


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