Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, April 13, 2014

New Testosterone Studies-New Dangers for Transmen?

What does 27 long term studies on the effects of synthetic testosterone on males tell us about the life threatening dangers of "T" on trans females?

The Public Citizen recently petitioned the FDA to put black box warning labels on testosterone products "based on growing evidence of the risks of heart attacks and other cardiovascular dangers from many individual randomized studies going back as far as 2010 and a recently published overall analysis (meta-analysis) of 27 studies going back as far as 20 years. Although 13 of these studies, funded by the drug industry, collectively showed no increased risk, the 14 studies not funded by the industry collectively showed a highly significant increased cardiovascular risk."

"Despite all of these studies, the FDA stated on Jan. 31 that it “has not concluded that FDA-approved testosterone treatment increases the risk of stroke, heart attack, or death.”
“In the face of this accumulating evidence, this statement is reckless and is a betrayal of the FDA’s role as an agency in the U.S. Public Health Service,” said Dr. Sidney Wolfe, founder and senior adviser of Public Citizen’s Health Research Group.It is quite clear that testosterone treatment increases the risks of cardiovascular diseases, including heart attacks.”

More from the studies:
So what exactly does all this mean for transitioning females? We dont know, because clearly trans females arent being studied in the long or short term. But if low doses of synthetic hormones given to a portion of the male population who naturally produce this hormone in large quantities are having "cardiac events?" Can we not surmise then that HIGH doses of this synthetic hormone given to a portion of the female population who make small amounts naturally have the serious potential to produce cardiac (and other) UN-natural events?



Feb. 25, 2014 – ABC News: Group Wants Heart Attack Warning on Testosterone
Jan. 30, 2014 – NPR: Popular Testosterone Therapy May Raise Risk of Heart Attack
Jan. 29, 2014 – New York TimesNew concern about testosterone and heart risks
Jan. 29, 2014 – LA TimesTestosterone prescriptions linked to heart attack
Nov. 5, 2013 – Wall Street JournalTestosterone therapy tied to heart risks
Nov. 5, 2013 ABC News: Testosterone supplements tied to heart attacks, stroke, early death

 dirt
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25 comments:

  1. Thank you, Dirt.

    ReplyDelete
  2. They'll warn the men. Can't have more blokes dying. They don't want to warn butch women who've bought into the trans medical establishment because....they're WOMEN.

    Straight blokes in frocks are invading and dominating the LGB groups and pushing out the women and gays. The guys are probably delighted to hear this because this will kill women.

    Butch dykes are being brainwashed, injecting these toxic drugs. It's just one more step in the autogynephiliacs' attempted genocide on lesbians, other women and gay men.

    We were too accommodating in accepting the first T's into our community. Now, the T's we trusted have allied themselves with the transvestite sex criminals who want us dead. It's time to kick the misogynists out.

    The T, and the T's, are killing us.

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  3. Anon 2:07,

    I am an intersex trans woman, probably with pmds. Do you think I want anyone to take testosterone? I hate testosterone. Do you think I want those who do take testosterone to die from it? It's hard to get good medical care for *any* endocrine problems, docs don't always recognize what's wrong, don't always know what's healthy, or safe, or unsafe, and here docs were pushing something that turned out to be unsafe. I am scared, actually, because I have had health problems all my life, and what else will turn out to be unsafe?

    - Mary

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  4. I'm guaranteed to die of something and so are you. I'll be glad to have been true to myself. You will die in bitterness and fear.

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  5. Mary, I'm sorry to hear that you have had problems with your health. All I can say is see a doctor, and if he or she doesn't help you, get a second opinion.

    "So what exactly does all this mean for transitioning females? We dont know, because clearly trans females arent being studied in the long or short term."

    Good point and well said!

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  6. Dirt, good work on keeping up on this issue. Some girls start talking about "T" (testosterone) when they are 14 and 15 years of age. There is a paucity of long term studies on "transitioning" females who take testosterone. If they are taking enough "T" to grow a beard and develop muscles, that is far more testosterone than women naturally produce. Women naturally produce tiny amounts of testosterone.

    If there are cardiovascular isssues with males on testosterone, how is the female heart that different than a male heart? The basic underlying process is still the same. For both males and females, the risk factors for heart disease are basically the same.

    If Public Citizen is concerned, then this is coming from a group that has taken on Big Pharma before. Always consider the source. Public Citizen is a respected consumer rights group that has been around for about thirty years. They took on Big Pharma, the auto industry, and nuclear power companies.

    "A public advocacy group is asking the Food and Drug Administration to add black box warnings about heart attack and other cardiovascular risks linked to taking testosterone products.

    Public Citizen made the appeal on Tuesday, citing studies that have linked heart problems to taking the hormone.

    The black box warning is the strongest warning that the FDA can require companies to put on their products. It alerts users that the medication has a high risk of causing adverse health effects, including ones that can lead to death.

    In the face of this accumulating evidence, this statement is reckless and is a betrayal of the FDA’s role as an agency in the U.S. Public Health Service,” Dr. Sidney Wolfe, founder and senior adviser of Public Citizen’s Health Research Group, said in a press release. “It is quite clear that testosterone treatment increases the risks of cardiovascular diseases, including heart attacks.

    A recent UCLA study of 55,000 men showed that the risk of heart attacks in men over 65 doubles within 90 days of starting testosterone therapy. For men under 65, the chance of the adverse event triples.

    “Testosterone increases red blood cell production and red blood production can lead to cells that coagulate,” study co-author and UCLA epidemiologist Dr. William Finkle, told CBS Los Angeles.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/group-asks-fda-for-black-box-warning-on-testosterone-products-due-to-heart-risks/

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  7. They'll warn the men. Can't have more blokes dying. They don't want to warn butch women who've bought into the trans medical establishment because....they're WOMEN.

    Since when has medicine ever cared about women's health? One cure for "hysteria" (all women are hysterical) was hysterectomy.

    "An anatomical "reality" that persisted in Western medical lore since ancient Greece was that the female uterus becomes displeased and displaced, and wanders through the body, negatively influencing the brain. "Hysteria" is derived from the Greek word for uterus.

    In a fit of fury the female uterus went travelling through the body, causing all manner of emotional disturbances - hence hysteria, hysterical - and hysterectomy.

    http://EzineArticles.com/740381

    Sorry for going off on a wild tangent. Women's health is always neglected and ignored.

    ReplyDelete
  8. It's like smoking. We all know how bad it is and people still think it won't harm them. Ignorence and stupidity all over the place.

    F2T take more testosteron then men produce and it's all synthetic shit. We don't need studies to know how unhealthy it is. But even if there are studies, people will still take it.
    They go for the cool effects: body hair, muscles, a beard, a low voice, etc.
    Wow, that so f*cking cool, it's definately worth your life!

    ReplyDelete
  9. FTMs are pretty much in denial about the side effects of their drugs in general.

    According to Hudson's guide, Cypionate is the most prescribed form of testosterone in the USA, and one of the most prescribed in the world.

    Body builders, however, recommend staying away from it except for in small amounts as it causes hair loss and rapid aging. You know, the exact same things that FTMs suffer from but are constantly denying that it's due to taking hormones.

    http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=69990.0
    http://theotheropinion.tumblr.com/post/36872578121/ftm-fears

    I'd also like to respond to this:

    "I'm guaranteed to die of something and so are you. I'll be glad to have been true to myself. You will die in bitterness and fear. "

    My dad used to say this to me almost word for word back when I was teenager and constantly ragged on him for his smoking and rampant alcoholism. Then last year he was suffering from the end stages of alcoholic liver disease. He wasn't expected to live long, so I was in charge of getting his funeral ready. Somehow, he managed to survive, and his liver has repaired itself to the point that it can limp along.

    However, he currently lives with debilitating nerve pain in his legs and feet, is nearly blind in one eye, and seems to have had mild brain damage. His smoking also recently landed him the hospital and he's been diagnosed with emphysema; he was only a light smoker, too.

    What's my point? It's easy to talk like that when you're healthy, thinking that any health problems you'll face in the future are far away, if they ever come at all. When you're lying on what everyone assumes to be your death bed, however, your tune changes quite drastically.

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  10. About the fast aging effect of synthetic testosterone, watch this F2T. Charles Asher is 20 something, but looks like an old bald man. Almost then 10 years on testosterone and very shocking.

    Watch Charles Asher

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  11. @ Anonymous April 14, 2014 at 8:04 PM

    “For both males and females, the risk factors for heart disease are basically the same.”

    True, except that being male is in itself a significant risk factor for heart disease. This has always been known, and the only plausible culprit is testosterone or some other androgen, After all, our testicles don't literally travel around our bodies the way the uterus was imagined to do, and give our heart a good kicking.

    The biggest market for “T” at the moment seems to be middle-aged and elderly men who take it along with Viagra and the like so they can carry on fucking like 20-year-old jackrabbits when they should be crocheting romper-suits for their grandchildren, or teaching them to whittle, whatever that involves. Of course they drop like flies from heart attacks. The ageing male body is simply not an appropriate vehicle to carry the level of circulating testosterone that would be healthy in a 20-year-old, and nor, obviously, is a female body at any age.

    And as other posters have pointed out, the quantity of testosterone needed to transform a female body into a simulacrum of a male one is simply enormous compared to anything that could plausibly be given to a male as “therapy”.

    I hope it's clear that framing this as a “correction” to your post is just rhetorical. My real intention is to reinforce, if that were needed, the very clear and forceful points you make.

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  12. @ Anonymous April 14, 2014 at 8:04 PM

    The biggest market for “T” at the moment seems to be middle-aged and elderly men who take it along with Viagra and the like so they can carry on fucking like 20-year-old jackrabbits when they should be crocheting romper-suits for their grandchildren, or teaching them to whittle, whatever that involves. Of course they drop like flies from heart attacks. The ageing male body is simply not an appropriate vehicle to carry the level of circulating testosterone that would be healthy in a 20-year-old, and nor, obviously, is a female body at any age.

    Petre, good point and I liked the way you phrased it. I'm not male, and it's nice sometimes to get a male perspective.

    Heart disease kills women too. In fact, heart disease kills more women than breast cancer.



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  13. "Heart disease kills women too. In fact, heart disease kills more women than breast cancer."

    An excellent point, and a good corrective to mine. Importantly, heart disease more often goes undetected in women because the general public, family doctors and even cardiologists are more attuned to how it presents in men. My own cardio has strong views on this, and I'll pump him for information next time I see him (not till June, barring unforeseen events that I hope you don't wish on me).



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  14. Mary, your post is interesting, as always. I hope, if I appear to reply to it harshly as another male-born (or male-assigned, if you prefer that term for yourself) person with significant hormonal issues, you won't think too badly of me. Firstly, I must be as upfront about myself as I can: I was over-exposed to estrogen in the womb, with major effects on my genital development (severe hypospadias) and significant breast growth and other bodily “feminization” at puberty. As far as I know, I am otherwise anatomically male.

    In your case, you say you “probably” have PMDS. (For other readers, that is Persistent Müllerian Duct Syndrome, essentially the presence of a uterus in an otherwise male individual; I'm simplifying, so google it if you really want to know.) I don't know what country you live in, or how medicine is practised or funded there, but if any doctor has told you you “probably” have this syndrome, that is a wildly irresponsible half-diagnosis. If, on the other hand, you have come to this conclusion through your own reading, I must tell you that it is very common indeed for people like you and me to imagine, speculate and fantasize such things. Experiencing bleeding from the anus as a teenager, I easily summoned into existence ovaries that were causing me to menstruate; sadly, the actual source was nothing more exotic than internal hemorrhoids. I don't want to dismiss your experience as mere fantasy, but you're clearly intelligent and articulate, so if I've maligned you, you can reply.

    For the record, I share your negative view of testosterone. Even the “natural” level of it washing around the world cannot be good for human society, and I'm sure we'd all be happier if a moderate dose of androgen-blocker or estrogen were added to the water supply. Or perhaps we could just target those things that only macho men seem to drink or eat: English ale and Bourbon, or super-hot Indian curries or Mexican chilli. On a more individual note, as a young adult I was lucky enough to have a body that produced both testosterone and a significant (more than usual for a male, but less than female) amount of estrogen. As the estrogen diminished in my late thirties I felt the bleakness and disconnectedness that I think you have spoken of elsewhere: if that's what being a “real man” is, it is indeed tough. Now as I stagger toward old age and both are abandoning me, I confess I miss the “E” a litle bit more than the “T”.

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  15. Ftm's have testosterone levels in the normal range for males. It's true that xy men taking T are just trying to prolong the fun. Many transmen, myself included, are extremely aware of our health status. I don't smoke or drink, and I exercise for at least an hour a day,
    usually more. I can't say the same for any of
    you or for the average male. I could drop dead
    of an aneurysm tomorrow and so could you. I'd still be glad I lived true to myself. After all, if thinking about and criticizing trans people is how you spend your time, you may as well be dead already.

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  16. "Ftm's have testosterone levels in the normal range for males"

    Of course, that's the "therapeutic" goal. But you are not males, and that is only achieved by pumping vast amounts of the stuff into you. But I'm more interested in an honest answer to the question WHY you want to do it.

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  17. "I could drop dead of an aneurysm tomorrow and so could you. I'd still be glad I lived true to myself."

    But where is that "self" that you live so true to located? Apparently not in the body you treat as a consumerist commodity.

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  18. After all, if thinking about and criticizing trans people is how you spend your time, you may as well be dead already.

    Well well, isn't this a nice and sweet statement.
    I bet you think more about trans people then I do. In fact, you think about it so much that you started to believe this shit.

    BTW The dead comment is not cool.

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  19. "the quantity of testosterone needed to transform a female body into a simulacrum of a male one is simply enormous compared to anything that could plausibly be given to a male as “therapy”."

    Maybe you should take a look at dosages before making such ignorant statements.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686341/

    Take a look at the doses. They mention dosing up to 600 mg / week experimentally - an amount an FTM would not dream of taking! Later on, "a dose of 125 mg/week was considered to be the best trade-off of beneficial and adverse effects."

    40 - 100 mg per week is the general range that FTM HRT falls into.

    It is completely false to claim that FTMs require more synthetic testosterone than men with hypogonadism.

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  20. "Maybe you should take a look at dosages before making such ignorant statements."

    Stop making such reasonable suggestions. Stop telling the truth-nobody wants to hear it here.

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  21. Females taking ANY level of faux testosterone not in accordance to her body's natural production is DANGEROUS! And the levels required for the drastic changes for female transition, which each female patient will be on the rest of her life, go real fast from dangerous to deadly.

    And short of her getting hit by a bus, struck by lightening or dying in a plane crash all signs point to the fact that at some point in her medically induced quest for elusive "manhood" testosterone WILL be at the root of her premature death.

    dirt

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  22. It turns out Anonymous April 17 is right: some of the testosterone doses used in the trials reported on in the article s/he cites are indeed higher than usually given to FtMs. The article concerns the treatment of “hypogonadism” in older men, and the administration of such doses should rather serve to awaken our anxiety for that population, than to reassure us regarding the treatment of transsexuals.

    The article and the studies it reports rest on some very questionable assumptions, notably that “the criteria for low testosterone are the same regardless of age.” This “fact” leads, unsurprisingly, to the conclusion that “the prevalence of hypogonadism increases with advancing age”. Essentially, this research is the product of the same medical and pharmaceutical establishment that, a couple of decades ago, recommended that vast numbers of menopausal women should be taking estrogen (HRT). The aim is to pathologize both menopause and the more gradual diminution of testosterone in older men, opening vast new markets for the sale of drugs, or in this case, hormones.

    Nevertheless, despite their assumptions and their, or their masters', barely disguised goals, safety considerations and adverse effects oblige the authors to conclude that “at this time, testosterone therapy can not be recommended for the general population of older men.”

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  23. Same anon @ April 17, 2014 at 11:36 AM; Ignorant comments on dosing:

    Dirt, I agree that taking testosterone is dangerous for FTMs. We don't know the long-term effects, and we do know that there are specific risks even in shorter-term dosing.

    However, I think it's incredibly useless to try and prove that point with blatant misinformation. FTMs look at those exaggerations and see lies that have nothing to do with them. Misinformation takes away any legitimate truth behind those warnings. Misinformation tells an FTM that they needn't listen to some old stranger on the internet who doesn't know the first thing about HRT! Telling lies about the dangers of testosterone isn't scaring anyone away. It's giving them more reason to think that these warnings are just bullshit.

    My issue is with Petre's comment, not the original post.

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  24. Petre,

    "I don't know what country you live in, or how medicine is practised or funded there, but if any doctor has told you you “probably” have this syndrome, that is a wildly irresponsible half-diagnosis. If, on the other hand, you have come to this conclusion through your own reading, I must tell you that it is very common indeed for people like you and me to imagine, speculate and fantasize such things."

    In my teens, a doctor told me I probably had kidney problems, so that was the half-diagnosis. And referred me to other doctors for various tests, which led to no diagnosis that they would tell me. I later went on hormone replacement, and noticed bleeding during interruptions, which was what led to the self-half-diagnosis.

    - Mary

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  25. Oh, only trust the doctors re:intersex. Don't trust the doctors re:trans. Listen to me, don't listen to them, don't listen to yourself. You can't possibly know more about yourself than I know about you. Don't do what you want, do what I do, even though I'm evidently miserable and spend all my time watching 12-year olds on YouTube. AWESOME, YOU GUYS!

    ReplyDelete

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