Change Your World-NOT your Body

Monday, March 17, 2014

The Dangers of a Passive Femme

 Let me preface this post with this: If you are a Butch and the Femme you are dating doesnt actively take an interest in touching you beyond your clothes, sports bra, boxers or BC, then the person you are dating is NOT a lesbian.

I was recently asked from a reader about my feelings on "Femmes assuming a passive sexual role during sex with Butches." And by passive she didnt meant in a playful role playing kinda way, but either presuming all Butches have no sexual needs/desires (voiced or not) to be touched and/or a horror in touching Butch female bodies sexually. I briefly answered her, but told her I would expound on that answer with a public post.

Undoubtedly if your are an adult Femme you have encountered a Butch or two or three or...along the way whom has suffered from some degree of sexual/female shame. Equally without doubt, some of those Femmes erring on the side of caution have unwittingly harmed both the Butch partner whose feelings they were trying to protect and the healthy relationship they were trying to forge. Femmes new to Butch/Femme relationships and even some Femme veterans of them, whenever intimate expectations werent met and the relationship failed, Femmes often feel (in my best Ricky Ricardo imitation) "Lucy, WOT HOPPEND?"

What happens is the emotional intimacy born out of sexual intimacy within a potentially loving relationship is still born from singular sided sexual relations. And the lesbianism between a Butch lesbian and Femme lesbian empties into a dark cavern of nothingness.

Simply put, most Butches are going to protest to being touched sexually by a Femme no matter how bad they desire it. On the plus side, most Butches after feeling closer to a Femme will allow their Femme lover to make love to them. Sadly other Butches may suffer from female shame to such an extent they will recoil from a Femme's sexual touch and run from any possibility of a healthy intimate relationship, usually into the sterile bed of a straight woman in effort to deny their own womanhood.

But when Femmes do not reach beneath a Butch shirt or boxers seeking the lesbian connection both Butches and Femmes crave, its a rare Butch thats going to ask her to. And that touch both establishes and symbolizes the lesbian that Femmes are, and which is so often invisible in Femme make up. And that Femme touch when used in just the right way gives a Butch great pleasure while reassuring her this Femme hand or tongue cannot and will not UNbutch her.

This may seem to put undue pressure and responsibility onto a Femme, but until society is stripped from the Gender Straight Jacket, Butch lesbians will continue to develop female shame that requires Butch maturity AND a strong Femme hand to soothe.

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24 comments:

  1. So true

    Signed, a femme

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  2. I chatted with my ex about this post. We basically agree that a femme (aka Lesbian aka femme lesbian who desires physical and emotional relationship with butch lesbians) is a whole world apart from other women a femme-oriented butch might go to bed with. It can be potentially soul destroying for a butch lesbian to partner with any woman who has no interest in their butches physical pleasure and emotional needs. However we recognise that the GSJ and accompanying butch and femme invisibility growing up means that we have no road map. Its my experience, as a femme, that my sense of self was found not through positive role models (there has never been many available), but mainly through what I call a nameless unhappiness, endless soul-searching, and the courage to act on feelings despite encouragement from society to the contrary. I dont know if there are others who can relate to this??? So imagine my confusion when I arrive on butch-femme dating sites only to read queer femmes masculinising butches, and out-femming each other. It made me think I wasn't a femme! 10 years later I return to my feelings for butch women and through this blog learn that I was duped! Yes, their are butch lesbians who do want to be touched, who do want emotional intimacy, who dont require role-playing or a daddy role to be sexual with a femme, and yes, their are femmes like me who care about butches and want to make love to them and care about them enough to do that extra work and understand it all and create physical and emotional intimacy together. I want her to know alot more about my feelings than to just hear how much I desire and appreciate her... I want
    her to FEEL it in the most intimate of ways via physical love... Thats how I want her to Know my love for her. There is a reason why we call each other LOVER.

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  3. I wouldn't advocate non-consensual touching or verbal pressuring. Much less guilt femmes over respecting butch boundaries. A femme can state what she needs and walk away if she can't get it. Much harder to walk away from a sexual assault charge. Lesbian rape happens and is very underreported.

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  4. Anon @ 11:52 No one said femmes are guilty or should be ashamed. No one advocated non-consensual touch or verbal pressuring. Yes, femmes can say what they need and walk away if they can't get it.

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  5. This is a very good article, and this has been going on for some time. The older butches will tell stories of bisexual women who hook up with butch lesbians. They would never touch the butch because this would mean that they were "lez", or whatever. In their minds, if they are only on the receiving end, then they aren't lesbain. In essence, they would use butch lesbians kind of like the way males use females.

    Did anyone see the movie Pariah? Some straight girl from high school had a quick one night stand with the main character who is a lesbian. The next morning the girl acted as if she never knew her. So, she basically used the lesbian sexually, and then pretended she didn't even know her the very next morning. This is a great movie.

    Lesbians and butches have been used by bisexual and straight women for a very long time. It's nothing new.

    @March 18, 2014 at 11:52 AM

    I wouldn't advocate non-consensual touching or verbal pressuring. Much less guilt femmes over respecting butch boundaries. A femme can state what she needs and walk away if she can't get it. Much harder to walk away from a sexual assault charge. Lesbian rape happens and is very underreported.

    I have no idea what this individual is talking about. I don't think they have a clue, but felt compelled to post something for the heck of it.

    No one is suggesting non-consensual touching or verbal pressuring.

    "Lesbian rape happens and is very underreported."

    Because they are female, lesbians are far more likely to be victims of rape or sexual assault than perpetrators of these crimes. The same goes for bi and straight women.

    Males are responsible for at least 90% of all sexual assault. Compare the number of males in prison for sex crimes to the numbers of females in prison.

    "A femme can state what she needs and walk away if she can't get it. Much harder to walk away from a sexual assault charge."

    Since this person brought up sexual assault, does this include FTM Kael T. Block, or Christopher, "Jessica", Hambrook? Isn't it true that Kael fled the U.S. after charges were filed? "Jessica" Hambrook was convicted of sexually assaulting women in women's shelters along with other assorted sex crimes. As to people like transgender registered sex offender Paula Witherspoon, all people have to do is check the Texas registry of sex offenders.

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  6. @Samantha

    Yes, there are butch lesbians who do want to be touched, who do want emotional intimacy, who dont require role-playing or a daddy role to be sexual with a femme,

    Thank you for the post...well said

    Daddies as in the leather BDSM scene are NOT the same as butch lesbians. There is a big difference between the two.

    No one said femmes are guilty or should be ashamed.

    Absolutely, no one is saying this. I think it has more to do with bisexual women and the occassional straight woman. I don't have anything against bisexual women, but what dirt is talking about has been going on for some time. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but we know it occurs.

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  7. Hi Anon @ 4.56 pm. I am aware of this, its just Ive noticed (if online communities are any reflection of butch femme relationships in general) except I know now that it is not an accurate or diverse reflection) that their are alot of daddies. I was first reading these online forums in the early 2000s, I was in my early 20s, and I hadnt a clue back then what the blazes anyone on there was on about. Butches being dominants and/or tops put me off bcs as a young woman that equated to the same sexual dissasifaction and submission that dating men had been for me. Okay so Im not into the BDSM scene, but it is relevant. What young femme lesbian feels comfortable in a BDSM dominant forum when she's vulnerable and exploring her feelings for the first time. What she reads is what she's again being told she SHOULD be aka submissive.

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  8. To March 18 4:44 pm. Without a doubt March 18 11:52 IS dealing with stone butches and/or butches suffering from female shame.

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  9. No means no. Full stop, end of story. It is everyone's duty to respect that. To suggest that there is some "butch sexuality" that requires a partner to override "no" is repugnant. To misname the problem as a "passive femme" is a total mindfuck. Respecting no is the farthest thing from "danger."

    This very conflicted behavior--saying no, meaning yes--is not any kind of liberatory identity or sexuality. It is, however, par for the course for incest and other abuse survivors, and it can be confronted and healed. Please get help. Stop reifying and eroticizing the damage. It breaks my heart to see lesbians engaging in this destructive behavior.

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  10. How has butches who want and invite their femme partners to make love to them totally consenually been totally ignored, and instead, replaced with some belief/mythical statement that femme lesbians are potential rapists, in two anon posts??? I think u r the ones who r f***ing this all up, frankly.

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  11. If there is an interest/need for a post about the myriad of Femme LESBIANS raping Butch LESBIANS, simply write to me in private with your documentation of this and I will be more than happy to start a post on the topic.

    THIS post however has ZERO to do with rape to EVERY Femme and Butch who has read it. All further comments NOT on topic WILL be removed.

    IF you arent familiar with Butch/Femme sexual/romantic interactions simply ask for further explanations where your limited understanding fail you.

    dirt

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  12. Wow Dirt, great article! And kind of hot! thank you for writing about this issue. :D

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  13. Well said, Dirt. As a Butch woman I've felt intense shame for my sexuality, and have spent much of my sexual life "stone." Being "stone" didn't necessarily mean that I didn't want to be touched or didn't want to get off by my partner's hand/mouth, but that I felt so ashamed about it that I would never seek or ask for it. I was almost always entirely satisfied by the pleasure of my partner and happy to keep myself on the giving end.
    Indeed it was by the gentle love and encouragement of an understanding partner that I was able to begin working through this body shame and really start to come into my own sexually, and become open to receiving any sort of sexual touching. It's expanded my relationships 10000x fold. I've not had relationships with many women who identified as Femme, but I've certainly found wonderful women who want to be open and giving and who understand or at least respect the body issues that many Butch women carry with us.
    I respect Stone Butches, and of course no one should be touched at all without explicit consent, but there is so much truth to what you are speaking. Thank you. This is extremely important to talk about, especially because I think it's often that young women who experience these feelings of sexual disconnectedness tie them into the notion that they are "not female" because they do not relate to their genitals or sexuality in the same manner as the majority of females. I moved from Stone to trans-identifying, and then finally found myself again as female and slowly worked towards reclaiming and accepting myself sexually (with the indispensable help and love of other women). I believe it really is an important step in loving and understanding yourself.

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  14. @Zombie,

    Thanks...

    I've gone through some of the same things you have, but I never identified as trans.

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  15. @Zombie, you explain it very well.
    I aways enjoyed sex and can't imagine how it's like to be alienated from your own genitals.
    I had a girlfriend once who didn't want sex because of sexual abuse in her childhood. Her no was only her fear holding her back. A part of her wanted sex and with much love and patience she came to the point that she could have and enjoy sex.
    Little steps at the time and respect are keywords.

    Big

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  16. I'd like to bring up a complicating factor in all of this. I don't see it as problematic if a Butch (which is what I identify as) doesn't wish to commit a type of sex act that will make her feel submissive. Being penetrated with fingers (or other things as well) can undermine feelling like a strong person, since the GSJ has fed women the idea that they get penetrated in order to cater to male sexual desire. If I wouldn't want a man inside of me, why would I want a woman's fingers inside of me either? It's just going to seem like I'm being dominated. However, this is NOT the same thing as a Butch receiving sexual gratification from a lover. I can't get my mind around a Butch who wouldn't want sexual gratification at all, so long as that comes in the form of their lover touching the outside of the Butch's private part. Hands or mouth on the outside of the genitals isn't encoded to dominate, only internal penetration is.

    I could see a situation where queer femmes could be useful insofar as at least they wouldn't penetrate Butches. That's more than can be said for the males who want to commit reparitive rape against a Butch and penetrate her to show her what she's "supposed to do" in their minds.

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  17. Making love/sexual touching within a lesbian sexual relationship need not EVER have anything to do with penetration and it certainly wasnt something I was speaking of. There are plenty of Femmes who have no sexual interest in penetration as well.

    Even in the Lesbian community, we've lost touch with LESBIAN sex and cannot imagine sex outside of dominant man with erection shoving his cock in and out of submissive female.

    In a Butch/Femme relationship, there are no men.

    dirt

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  18. Hey you proud butch woman! lol- I don't know Dirt , I'm sad to see trans acceptance resulted into a where to piss issue , or a travel document and worse a fad!I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It bothers me there are little trans kids killing themselves because of being stripped of even their own creator.
    I myself dropped out of the alphabet a long time ago. I'm mighty fine being a no-sexual until I think about Pink and I still get all hot and bothered.

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  19. As a femme, i have always dated butches. As my ex began to open up to me, she told me that her former partners had reinforced her shame of her body, her sexual desires, and her physical needs...mostly through passivity. She said they seemed relieved that they weren't expected to go down on her. It was nearly two years into our relationship before she allowed me to taste her. She was the only lover I ever had who ever allowed it. It was another year before she stopped feeling ambivalent about it. It was cruel. She loved the physical sensation, but hated how ashamed it made her feel. She often wouldn't let me hold her afterward.

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  20. As a femme, i have always dated butches. As my ex began to open up to me, she told me that her former partners had reinforced her shame of her body, her sexual desires, and her physical needs...mostly through passivity. She said they seemed relieved that they weren't expected to go down on her. It was nearly two years into our relationship before she allowed me to taste her. She was the only lover I ever had who ever allowed it. It was another year before she stopped feeling ambivalent about it. It was cruel. She loved the physical sensation, but hated how ashamed it made her feel. She often wouldn't let me hold her afterward.

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  21. I've learned to always offer to touch her (by touch I'm including oral), to always show desire to touch her, but to never make demands. It is rare that my butch wants me to touch her, but when she does I am always more than willing, let's say desperate, to touch/taste her.

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  22. How interesting, I think I'd be somehow femme, well, I don't do heels but I consider myself a passive femme, but I don't really date butches, but as a passive lesbian woman, I can say, yes most of the time I won't do or start stuff, but I do have hands and I like to touch my partner and do her now and then :3 when I have one that is

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