Why is it that transpeople believe they are entitled to attack real women, especially feminists?
Because the constant drama, suffering (sic), whining, sobbing, suicide threats, demonatrations of the horrir of being misgendered, murder threats, are part of autogynephilia. It's part of the syndrome, it's the symptoms and check list of. You see that? You're seeing autogynephilia.
I have been trying to wade through the posts and comments to figure out what exactly the point is and frankly it has been lost.What I will say is that Transgender has absolutly nothing to do with feminism, being gay or anything else BUT Personal feelings of oneself.True Transgenders believe with every fiber of their being that they were born in the wrong body, period.That is why we now see children transgenders, we are now more aware of them.I am a femme that that was in a 20 year relationship with an unaltered FTM until his passing. I have now been in a relationship with an unaltered ftm for 5 years. If and when he transitions I would be considered straight. That does not matter to me because I love him and he Believes he should have been born male. My role is to support him in being happy. So you see everything you all are arguing about has nothing to do with true transgender people because a true transgender does not not see anything else being a part of who they were meant to be.
"My role is to support him in being happy."How very Phyllis Schlafly of you.
What I will say is that Transgender has absolutely nothing to do with feminism, being gay or anything else BUT Personal feelings of oneself.How can a human being born female from the womb of her mother not be of the female sex? FTMs carry part of their mother's nuclear DNA as well mitochondrial DNA which is solely inherited from the mother. They are nurtured and raised by a female. FTMs have sisters, aunts, and other female relatives in their lives. Before they transition, many FTMs spend part of their lives living as women. The rights that they have (voting rights, access to reproductive health care, access to education, laws that deal with equal pay, and discrimination) were fought for by first and second wave feminists. To state that FTMs have no connection to feminism is not very accurate. FTMs owe much to the women who brought them into this world, and to the brave women who fought tirelessly for the rights of women. There are other issues that are discussed at this blog. For instance, how much of one's decision to "transition" can be attributed to a real sense of "gender dysphoria", and how much is largely culturally based. By culturally based, I mean everything these young women read on transgender blog, trans website, see on youtube videos, or the information they receive from plastic surgeons ("top surgery", ("bottom surgery") "T", etc.) A person would have to be rather naive to not know that transitioning is being pushed on these young 14,15, and 16 year old girls. Teenage girls are already talking about "T" (testosterone), and they can't wait to get their breasts surgically removed. More and more young women, especially lesbians are being "transitioned". Many people have noticed this. Something is going on, and it's largely cultural.FTM "transitioning" does not exist in a complete cultural vacuum. I argue that it's impossible to completely separate internalized feelings of misogyny and deep seated fear of being branded a lesbian from the actual "gender dysphoria". Girls and women are universally devalued, and lesbians are on the bottom of social pecking order. I'm not saying all of this is going on with every FTM, but misogyny is so deeply embedded in most cultures, I could clearly see what a young woman wouldn't want to be a boy.
True Transgenders believe with every fiber of their being that they were born in the wrong body, period.Apparently, the doctors who performed the botched sex reassignment surgery on Nathan/Nathan Verhelst thought this person was a true trassexual.The Belgian woman who was so depressed after botched sex reassignment surgery that she begged a doctor to euthanize her thought she was a true transsexual too. She wasn't happy with the way her chest looked after "top surgery". She said that the skin flap taken from her arm that was sewn onto her female pubic area to fashion a "penis" had shown signs of rejection. If these grafts failed, what would she do? Would they take another graft from the other arm? People have no idea what FTM "transitioning" entails. These are ghastly proceedures by anyone's standards. By all accounts, Nancy/Nathat was an emotionally fragile person who grew up in a family where the boys were favored. They mutilated a perfectly healthy body. When that didn't work, she asked to be euahtnized. Apparently, Belgium has some liberal euthanasia laws. Other than the mutilated chest and botched "bottom surgery", she had no medical terminal illness. Sex Reassignment surgery should not have been pushed on this emotionally fragile and depressed person. Nathan Verhelst, 44, born Nancy, chose a medically assisted death after his sex change operation left him feeling like a 'monster.' Euthanasia is legal in Belgium, but a subject of controversy as more people are choosing it.http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/belgian-transsexual-dies-euthanasia-botched-sex-change-article-1.1473875
"Why is it that transpeople believe they are entitled to attack real women, especially feminists?"No one's entitled to attack another person. However, constantly devaluing, demonizing and essentially attacking an entire, diverse group of people is going to elicit this sort of response. People are people and some believe they have the right to express themselves more violently than others. It's human nature and realistically there isn't a single group of people out there who can say that an identifying member has never retaliated in such fashion. Undoubtedly, there have been feminists who have used hateful language towards others. Whether or not you agree with the validity of trans people is your opinion. You're entitled to it. But don't douse yourself in gasoline, strike a match and expect not to get burned. This isn't a blog about how wonderful the weather is outside; it's a blog that promotes hostility towards a group of people.
You just got schooled.
I don't think this blog promotes hostility, nor do I think most regular readers and commenters feel any hostility towards the believers in transsexualism. (Except maybe when dealing with those really creepy 'transwoman' dudes who harrass lesbians all the time, but that's more in other places online.)
Dear Dirt,Stop taking a few harsh and inappropriate words from a few rightfully angry trans people and applying your assessment onto all of us. I, being a trans person, commented on your blog when you told us all about your incident and wished you a speedy recovered with as little pain as possible. I am not a violent man and wish never wish death on anyone, even you someone who tells me that because I don't want my breasts and want them surgically removed that I shouldn't have the right or that what I feel is wrong, and that it makes me a misogynist; the truth could not be any further. No matter how much you vilify us, some of dare I say most of us wouldn't wish you any harm. Get well soon.~ Kevin
Well said kevin :-)
"Why is it that transpeople believe they are entitled to attack real women, especially feminists?"Because feminism is more threatening to patriarchy than transgender. Transssexuals just enforce the same old tired sex stereotypes.LOVE YOU DIRT!TAKE CARE,
"I don't think this blog promotes hostility, nor do I think most regular readers and commenters feel any hostility towards the believers in transsexualism. (Except maybe when dealing with those really creepy 'transwoman' dudes who harrass lesbians all the time, but that's more in other places online.)"I just wish it could be more clear then maybe? Not all of us are those people. If you saw me, you couldn't tell I'm trans. I'd never force myself onto anyone, nor say I am a lesbian therefore all lesbians must want to have sex with me... That's so ridiculous. I too disagree with much of how many trans people go about seeking acceptance. But, I also disagree with that fact that I have my identity trashed everyday because we're lumped in with them. It's like I said earlier, we're all people and we're all conveniently lumped into groups. There will always be a few in every group out there who portray the rest negatively. @ KevinI couldn't agree more with everything you said. In addition, I'm sorry to hear about the injury, Dirt. If it hasn't already healed then I wish you the best in your recovery! Please don't let some of us make you believe all of us are the same.
I love how Dirt/Lynn/BIGOT is surprised when righteous people take issue with her hate site. Every horrible word thrown your way is because for years you have devoted your life to hating on trans people. And for years you have been a complete and total failure. The trans movement is bigger and better than ever. We are winning winning winning and will only continue to do so int he foreseeable future. Real feminists categorically reject your hate and your hate site and see "lesbian feminism" as the antiquated dinosaur that it is. As trans people, we know who we are. YOU do not get to decide that for us. And we will fight you tooth and nail until you finally stop your hate-based activism.
Yea they are cuntosauras rex and dumb twats ..
Real feminists categorically reject your hate and your hate site and see "lesbian feminism" as the antiquated dinosaur that it is. As trans people, we know who we are. YOU do not get to decide that for us. And we will fight you tooth and nail until you finally stop your hate-based activism. AS WE ERASE FEMALE IDENTITY, MUTILATE MORE PERFECTLY HEALTHY FEMALE BODIES, AND DRUG CHILDREN WITH GnRH AGONISTS AND CROSS GENDER HORMONES (POSSIBLY STERILIZING THEM), WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS AND ISN'T "REAL FEMINISM".WE WILL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CO-OPT FEMINISM AND TRAMPLE ON THE GRAVES OF FIRST AND SECOND WAVE FEMINISTS WHILE WE PLANT THE IDEA OF "TRANSITIONING" (SURGERY AND "T") INTO THE MINDS OF MORE AND MORE 14 AND 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS.I'm not sure what "real feminism" is. I doubt that it is responsible for the mutilated and euthanized body of Nancy/Nathan Verhelst. Since this person brought up "real feminists, HOW CAN THE ERASING OF FEMALE IDENTITY NOT BE A FEMINIST ISSUE? FTM "transitioning" not only radically alters healthy female breasts, genitals, and reproductive systems, it erases female identity itself. If a human is born female she is still part of the female sex. I know people are going to say that these 15 and 16 year old girls who are already talking about "T" are really boys or tans. Are they really boys or trans, or is it everything they read and see online and from friends? Am I supposed to believe that "real feminism" has something to do with "top surgery" (elective mastectomies with the surgical trimming down of areolas and nipples). Loss of sensation is common. I fail to see how "real feminism" is related to "bottom surgery" whereby skin flaps from the arm, thigh, or wherever are sewn onto the female pubic area to fashion a "penis" that will never function like a penis on a biological male. What happens if necrosis sets in? Do they just get more skin grafts? They already carved up one arm. Verhelst was afraid that her "penis" (skin flap from arm) was about to rot off. IF THERE IS SUCH A THING AS "REAL FEMINISM", IT WOULDN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MUTILATING HEALTHY FEMALE BODIES.
Since this person brought up "real feminists, HOW CAN THE ERASING OF FEMALE IDENTITY NOT BE A FEMINIST ISSUE? FTM "transitioning" not only radically alters healthy female breasts, genitals, and reproductive systems, it erases female identity itself. If a human is born female she is still part of the female sex. I know people are going to say that these 15 and 16 year old girls who are already talking about "T" are really boys or tans. Are they really boys or trans, or is it everything they read and see online and from friends? Am I supposed to believe that "real feminism" has something to do with "top surgery" (elective mastectomies with the surgical trimming down of areolas and nipples). Loss of sensation is common. I fail to see how "real feminism" is related to "bottom surgery" whereby skin flaps from the arm, thigh, or wherever are sewn onto the female pubic area to fashion a "penis" that will never function like a penis on a biological male. What happens if necrosis sets in? Do they just get more skin grafts? They already carved up one arm. Verhelst was afraid that her "penis" (skin flap from arm) was about to rot off. As a female, I'm connected to every female who came before me. I know this might be a very difficult concept to grasp, but feminism didn't start with GnRH agonists for "gender dysphoric" 12 year old children. It certainly didn't start with FTM "top surgery" (elective mastectomies with the surgical trimming down of areolas and nipples). WILL FUTURE HISTORIANS VIEW FTM "TOP SURGERY" AND "BOTTOM SURGERY" AS JUST ANOTHER FORM OF FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION? THE MUTILATION OF THE FEMALE BODY HAS A THOUSAND PLUS YEAR HISTORY. IF YOU ARE WRONG, THE "ANTIQUATED DINOSAURS" WON'T HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THE MUTILATED FEMALE BODIES AND DRUGGED CHILDREN. NOTHING EXISTS IN A COMPLETE CULTURAL VACUUM, AND THIS INCLUDES FTM "TRANSITIONING".
Real feminists categorically reject your hate and your hate site and see "lesbian feminism" as the antiquated dinosaur that it is.Transgender activists have co-opted feminism to the point that they feel completely comfortable calling women twats and cunts.It's not misogynistic if it's coming from trans activists. Yea they are cuntosauras rex and dumb twats ..All of this is being chronicled.
The trans movement is bigger and better than ever. We are winning winning winning and will only continue to do so int he foreseeable future.Foreseeable future....Some of the most ghoulish experiments known to mankind were once seen as cool and progressive. Sooner or later there will be a reckoning, and the extent of the carnage in terms of FTM mutilated bodies and drugged infertile children will be tallied up.
This is another sad and tragic post "transitioning" suicide. My heart aches for these people who were told that surgery hormones could heal their tormented souls. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cathy-kaufman/my-life-with-david-danielle-kaufman_b_4072395.html "Antiquated dinosaurs" (lesbian feminists, second wave feminists, and any woman who questions trans activists) won't be held accountable for any future health effects from the GnRH agnosits and cross gender hormones trans activists and doctors have been pushing on children."Antiquated dinosaurs" won't be held responsible for the potential human rights abuse involved in sterilizing healthy children. They know full well that if the GnRH agonists are followed by cross gender hormones at age 16, future fertility can be compromised. People can even sterilize children as long as it's done under the general category of transgender. THERE IS NO WAY TO COMPELTELY SEPARATE CULTURAL INFLUNCES FROM THE "GENDER DYSPHORIA", ESPECIALLY IN CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS. THE CULTURAL INFLUENCES ARE NUMEROUS.(1.) Any and everything these 14 and 15 year old girls see, hear, and read on trans blogs, websites, youtube videos of how and where to get "T", breast binders, etc. (2.) Plastic surgeons who push "top surgery", "bottom surgery", etc.(3.) Endocrinologists who push GnRH agonists on children(4.) WHILE ALL OF THIS IS OCCURING, FEMALES ARE BOMBARDED BY CULTURAL MESSAGES THAT SAY GIRLS AREN'T AS GOOD AS BOYS. IT'S CONSTANT AND THIS CRUSHING MISOGYNY NEVER CEASES. IT REALLY TAKES SOME GALL TO LECTURE PEOPLE ON "REAL FEMINISM" WHILE PUSING "TOP SURGERY" AND "BOTTOM SURGERY". WE WILL:(1.) ERASE FEMALE IDENTITY ITSELF THROUGH A PROCESS CALLED FTM (FEMALE TO MALE) "TRANSITIONING"(2.) RADICALLY ALTER HEALTHY FEMALE BREASTS, GENITALS, AND REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEMS. IF THE BOTHCED SEX REASSIGNMENT SURGERY DOESN'T WORK, SOME COUNTRIES EUTHANIZE PEOPLE. (3.) THREATEN AND HARASS WOMEN WHO DISAGREE WITH US.(4.) DRUG CHILDREN WITH GnRH AGONISTS AND CROSS GENDER HORMONES(5.) WHEN WE ARE FINISHED DOING THIS, WE WILL CALL EVERYTHING WE HAVE DONE "REAL FEMINISM".
'...If you saw me, you couldn't tell I'm trans... I too disagree with much of how many trans people go about seeking acceptance. But, I also disagree with that fact that I have my identity trashed everyday because we're lumped in with them...'The thing is that every 'trans' person seems to think (or claim) that they 'pass' so much better and are so much more authentic than other 'trans' people.(I always get annoyed with the poster above with her long long comments even though I agree with the sentiment behind them)
We are winning winning winning and will only continue to do so int he foreseeable future.What are you 'winning' exactly? Why are body image disorders considered progressive now?
Hit by a semi truck? How sexist considering the semi truck probably represents a phallus on wheels. Misogyny! Any time a woman is called out it's misogyny!
Very well said, Kevin.I too think that's not fair to blame all trans for actions of a minority.I've no problem with trans people, if you're on that path, then I wish you all the best.But I do think that the trans path isn't right for most of the trans people. It's a trap and the grass is always greener on the other side.My goal is to prevent people from taking that path, people should hear the risks and other voices too. But in the end, it's everybody's own choice.Big
"Why is it that transpeople believe they are entitled to attack real women, especially feminists?"This cracks me up. What makes feminists feel they are entitled to attack transpeople? Is anybody "entitled" to attack anyone else?Do feminists really believe that they are beyond reproach? Are you just so used to trumping anyone else's opinion that you can't believe you are being questioned? Or did the patriarchy so successfully infantilize you that you can never mature and take responsibility for your words and actions. Don't get so wrapped up in your own victimhood that you can't see when you are the perpetrators. YOU CAN AND DO HURT PEOPLE. When you understand that, maybe you will be taken seriously.
This cracks me up. What makes feminists feel they are entitled to attack transpeople? Is anybody "entitled" to attack anyone else?What happens to the female sex does matter. It's not individual transmen (biological females who "transition"). I'm sure there are some decent and respectable FTMs. It's the process of "transitioning" and all the cultural factors that lead healthy females to get their breasts lopped off and give up their membership in the female sex. The mutilation of female bodies has a history. Even when we have a mutilated and euthanized body, they just don't get it. It could be that there are some women who are so "gender dyshporic" that surgery and hormones might be beneficial. However, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that something is going on, and it's largely culturally based. I see youtube video after youtube video of 15 and 16 year old girls talking about "T". An injectable drug just goes by "T" as in where is the easiest place to get "T". Again, I ask pose this question. HOW CAN THE ERASING OF FEMALE IDENTITY NOT BE A FEMINIST ISSUE? If we look at what "top surgery" and "bottom surgery" really entails, it does resemble female genital mutilation. We have something that drastically alters healthy female genitals and reproductive systems, and takes it one step further. We replace, at least socially, female with male. Of course, they are still biological females, but they cast off female identity. In a society that still values males more than females, and heterosexuals more than lesbian, we are supposed to believe that internalized misogyny, both subtle messages and not so subtle messages that girls constantly receive play no role whatsoever in the desire to "transition". Considering what girls go through, what girl wouldn't want to be a boy. Girls are so devalued that there are 163 million missing girls from India and China. They weren't even allowed their first breath. In a world in which girls are universally devalued, what does it mean to lose female identity?
@November 16, 2013 at 12:36 AMHit by a semi truck? How sexist considering the semi truck probably represents a phallus on wheels. Misogyny! Any time a woman is called out it's misogyny! This person is deluded, and didn't even take time to read anything. Did this individual read the screen shot? I'm assuming that this was a screen capture from an irate person. "Everything on this site makes me want to puke. You are a terrible person and I sincerely hope you are hit by a semi tomorrow"Dirt just underwent surgery. Now, this person says I hope you are hit by a semi.This is just how truly sick and terrified they are. They are terrified that people will start to see them for what they really are. No, I don't blame all trans folks for saying, "I hope you are hit by a semi" to a woman who recently had surgery. However, these comments are all to common. After they verbally bash women who disagree with them, then they start with the "I'm poor the victim"...boo hoo..boo hoo. Telling a woman who has recently had surgery that I hope you are hit by a semi tomorrow has to be one of the sickest things I've ever read. Dirt is one of the most courageous persons I know. She will be back, and I'm not going anywhere.
LOVE YOU DIRT!MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU..
These bigoted ideologues are amongst the most arrogant people on the face of the planet. Millions of transgender people all over the world are saying: this is who I am. And many of those are opting to utilize life-saving medical care to save their lives. For many the only other option is suicide. So apparently these "radical feminists" believe that trans people should commit suicide. Apparently they believe that trans people should not have full access to live-saving medical care. And apparently they think that by virtue of their hateful 1970s ideology, they get to decide who and what trans people are. Sorry, but you don't! And we are way more numerous than you, and way more successful, and way more powerful. Your little rag-tag bunch of "womyn" is the laughing-stock of feminism.
Women are victims because they made them self victims and stop refering to transmen as female its insulting you dumb twat..
transmen are female. no doubt you probably still have a twat. whether you fall into the `dumb`category is entirely up to you. one thing is evident: your comments are completely hateful. may you find peace somewhere on this earth that you scortch. anon:...and stop refering to transmen as female its insulting you dumb twat..
Im a man it shows how much you know you idiot
For many the only other option is suicide. So apparently these "radical feminists" believe that trans people should commit suicide.Nonsensical argument. Besides, from what I understand the suicide rate doesn't go down after 'SRS.'
Anon 7:23,It would be excellent if all trans people had access to mental health resources and adequate therapy, to the point where the medical part would become unnessesary. I've often thought some kind of a butch training camp would be helpful as well in raising the confidence level in some of these young lesbians opting for the ftm route. Germany
Butch Training Camp offers such seminars as:"How to Deny Your True Self" "Don't Want That, Want This!""Obnoxious Things Men Do are Cute When Done By Butches""Emotional Retardation: Status Quo for Us""Focus Group: Transmen"(Class duration is your entire life, so bring a couple bag lunches) "How To Emulate the Worst Characteristics of Men While Pretending To Not Want to Be One." "How to Shame Others Out of Wanting What They Want by Threatening Them With Loss of Community""How to Put Off Dealing with Yourself by Focusing on Others' Identities""Humility: Who Needs It? Certainly Not Us, Since We Know Everything"
In my Butch training camp there would be no seminars, no internet and perhaps no electricity. Just spending lots of time outside - running, swimming, fishing, hunting, learning how to fix and build things.Germany
What does this one mean exactly: '"How to Shame Others Out of Wanting What They Want by Threatening Them With Loss of Community"Does it mean that transsexuals need to be grouped with the lesbian/gay community?I get the rest of it, 'butches just want to be men.'Butches have been hearing that from the standard straights forever.-non-butch (though non-comforming), hardly feminist, logical thinker here, age 40
@Germany,Some great ideas. The problem is we live in a culture that constantly tells girls that they have to look like a thin Barbie doll and have the coolest clothes, makeup, etc. They are bombarded with these images all the time. Children as young as 13 are getting Botox injections in an attempt to seek out a quick fix for perceived beauty flaws.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1302519/Botox-boom-U-S-teenagers-receive-12-000-jabs-year.htmlIt's all about chasing the perfect image, and millions of dollars are spent on advertisement (hair, clothes, makeup, etc.). Girls who don't fit into the perfect Teen Vogue, pretty little princess image think their only options are being trans or becoming boys. They constantly see hyper-feminized images all around them, and they know that is not what they are. Because they don't want to look like Paris Hilton, this must make them trans. It's no coincidence that both hyper femininity and FTM "transitioning" emerged during the decline of second wave feminism. I've always argued that hyper femininity and FTM "transitioning" are just the flip side of the same coin in that both are fueled largely by internalized misogyny. In my Butch training camp there would be no seminars, no internet and perhaps no electricity. Just spending lots of time outside - running, swimming, fishing, hunting, learning how to fix and build things.GermanyThis is not a bad idea for any girl... Running, swimming, fixing things. Girls can do this without being butch. I don't know about the hunting.
Hunting is nasty hurting defenceless animals is cruel you are an nasty cruel woman germany!!!
Transman: do u have a twat or not?
Don't you know that their delusion allows for them to reimagine their female genitalia as some variation of male?
I often hear them calling it their male vagina. Very weird, because it's still a vagina.
@Anon Nov 17 2:58pm re: butch training campsthis is all of the bullshit that i used to think about butches before i grew up and realized that all of that was hateful garbage put on butch women by society at large and that it has nothing to do with actually being butch. everything there is a by-product of being beaten down continually by the world at large. you have to work your way through that shit and come out of the other end a whole individual. it's incredibly sad that some people get stuck in that phase rather than ever growing out of it, but the exact same could be said about ANY f2t individual (i.e. emotional retardation, being all of the worst things about "men", etc).stop throwing stones from glass houses and perpetuating self-hating myths of butch females. it's that type of shit that can push young butches to think that they're not butch, and are somehow male instead. it's just ridiculous.
Omg butch training camp is an awesome idea, id totes be a dope counselor
Transman: do u have a twat or not? They are called vaginas. I've never liked the offensive term "twat". I often hear them calling it their male vagina. Very weird, because it's still a vagina.Even when babies come out of their vaginas, they still don't call it a vagina. Some FTMs call their female genitals "junk" which is totally a guy thing. What normal woman calls her genitals or vagina "junk"? It's a "male box" or "front hole". "I refer to my bits with male language (and the extra hole is usually a boy box, front hole, bonus hole, the beast, manhole, cavern, void, male box, the chamber of secrets, the bellagio, cock pit, pr the business but other people like different words)"http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=99153.15;imode Transmen (biological females who "transition") have vaginas. Thomas Beatie, the "pregnant man" FTM gave birth to three babies through her vagina. This was AFTER she legally changed her sex to male. There are some transgender identified females (transmnen) who have regular old penis in vagina sex with males. When FTMs have sex with men, they call themselves "gay men". No, you can't make this **it up. That is the most screwed up thing I've ever heard. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting sex with men, but in their poor delusional minds, FTMs who have sex with men convince themselves that they are some sort of "gay" man with a "male box" "manhole", junk, or whatever. It's amazing how far people will go to convince themselves that something exists that isn't related to reality. How can any human born female be so utterly disconnected from their bodies?
I often hear them calling it their male vagina. Very weird, because it's still a vagina.It's still a vagina, but don't try convincing them otherwise. The FTMs who have sex with males sometimes call their vaginas "bonus hole", "front hole", or some other term. That really creeps me out to no end. Think about it for a while. A female having sex with men in her "front hole". If they can't find a cute guy, some gay men have been known to do a transman every now and then. Apparently, the gay dudes just consider it a "bonus hole". FTMs don't have a fully functioning penis even after sex reassignment surgery. FTMs end up being bottoms (the receptive partner) to gay men. When FTMs hook up with gay men, I often wonder about HIV. There are FTM porn stars like Buck Angel (aka "the man with the pussy" - that is what Buck is called, I didn't make it up) who have made porn videos with "shemales" with a penis. I don't like the term "shemales", but google Buck Angel and Shemales. The FTMs who screw men and call themselves "gay men" are the saddest thing to me. Because they are still biological females, FTMs WILL NEVER EXPERIENCE SEXUAL PLEASURE THE SAME WAY MALES DO. They don't ejaculate like a male, but when they have sex with men, they are "gay". It's crazy.Every FTM I've known was into women, or have had relationships with women. They get really uptight and offended if you call them lesbian. It's like the meanest thing you can say to them. Even if they used to define themselves as lesbian, they can get down right hostile when they are compared to lesbians. Truth be told, most transmen are just lesbians who have had their breasts lopped off. God, I'm going to catch hell for that comment. I don't care because it's the truth.
@The ZombieI know several butches who are handsome, chivalrous, debonair, caring, warm, generous, thoughtful, and at peace- practically in love with-their butch selves. Not a single one of them would stoop as low as to say or write the hateful, lying bullshit about transmen on this blog. You are the ones setting up a false paradigm of butch vs. trans. I also don't think you do butches or transmen any favors painting them as victims to explain their behavior. We all have the opportunity and responsibility to mature and come to terms with ourselves as individuals. I don't expect less from queers of any type.
I wonder where these hateful lies are on this blog; I've not seen them. And many gay men and lesbians do not consider themselves 'queers.'
The term 'twat' was mentioned in a thread way back. A transdefender continues to refer to other women as 'twats' and such. Meant to be taken as an insult,it amazes because the name caller undoubtedly has a vagina themselves. No end to the dillusion apparently.
I don't think your average ftm has all that much sex, and a lot of what they do seems to involve keeping their clothes on and using disproportionately large sex toys. Then there is the other extreme of the ones in porn, who pretty much just fondle their swollen clits and get f--ked by men.Germany
I beg to differ, as an FTM, my female partner and I have plenty of sex, 3-4 times which while we are both grad students is a lot. And we are both plenty naked during. My average male sized dildo works great for her and I get plenty of sensation as well. We are both happy and sexually satisfied by each other.
3-4 times weekly*
@Germany, you always are direct and to the point. I appreciate that...
I like to get totally naked with my partner. Since I had enough growth from testosterone to penetrate my partner, it feels great! You cannot possibly imagine how it feels to be inside your partner with a sensitive erogenous organ. That's not the only thing that goes on, of course. Now, I will say that we are not at each other 5 or 6 times a day, like we were when we met, but I'm not sure how that's different from any other couple. What's your fascination with our sex lives, Germany? What's your fascination with us in general?
Since I had enough growth from testosterone to penetrate my partner, it feels great!So it grew half an inch, good for you. Good that it feels great for you.But seriously, penetrating with half an inch? I bet she doesn't feel it at all. It sounds like an illusion to me.
More like 2" which is a laugh compared to most penises. Without getting overly graphic, I can tell you that she feels it. She also is turned on by overt physical signs of arousal in me, another human phenomenon. I don't dwell on what you consider to be my inadequacy. Thats a real losing battle-for anyone. Love is about love- as the gays have been saying for years, and I know what I am and all that I bring to the table. I hope you are not torturing yourselves either for your inadequacies- for being too fat, not smart enough, not making enough money, or whatever other comparison you are making between yourselves and other people. You have to work with who and where you are. I've said it before and ill say it again- what you say about transmen reveals more about you than it does about us. You should listen.
More like 2" which is a laugh compared to most penises.If two inches does it, then I say good for them. Unfortunately, if a biological female undergoes FTM "bottom surgery", there is no way to completely rule out the possibility of loss of sensation. The surgeon is cutting around very senstive areas. As to FTM "top surgery" (elective mastectomies with the surgical trimming down of areolas and nipples), loss of sensation to the nipple area is common. Males naturally have sensation to the nipple area while FTMs post "top surgery" can't always be guaranteed this. Again, who am I to ask about a person's private sex life. I'm happy if whatever works for them satisfies them.
I've said it before and ill say it again- what you say about transmen reveals more about you than it does about us. You should listen. More like 2" which is a laugh compared to most penises."compared to most penises"...interesting phrase..A slightly larger than average clitoris is not a penis. I hate to break it to this person, but it just isn't true. As to the "penis" on transgender identified females, the size of any biological female's genitals doesn't matter. They are all beautiful. Some might be a little larger than others. It's no big deal. I have listened, and there are somethings that I still don't understand. Human sexuality is exquisitely beautiful in its complexity. It's kind of hard for me to swallow the idea that a human born female can ever truly know how males feel when they are sexually aroused. No amount of testosterone that a female injects is ever going to change this fact. Yes, testosterone can increase the size of the clitoris about an inch or two and increase libido, but to say that FTMs experience sexual pleasure the exact same way as males flies in the face of logic and reason. It seems to me that FTMs or transmen (biological females who "transition") are denying their own female essence or sexuality. The female sexual response is different than the male sexual response. THE FEMALE SEXUAL RESPONSE IS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS ON EARTH. We have FTMs who, in reality, are biological females that call themselves "gay men" if they still like sex with males. Because the clitoris will grow a couple of inches with testosterone injections, humans born female call their beautiful clitoris a "penis". I can kind of understand it, but females who "transition" let a surgeon take a scalpel to their nipples and female genitals. If there is any loss of sensation, their sexual response is diminshed. No matter how we look at it, it does appear that transmen (females who "transition") are denying a part of their natural female sexuality. They are denying themselves something too precious to put in words. I don't mean to disrespect anyone's private sexual life, but somethings just don't add up. It seems to be based more on illusion than anything else, but there is something much deeper going on. The female sexual response is one of mother nature's most precious gifts, and FTMs seem so disconnected from it that it's kind of sad to me. No, a clitoris is not the same thing as a penis.
I don't expect less from queers of any type.What are "queers of any type"? I don't have anything against queer identified people, but I'm not queer. Queer folks are fine, but that is not who I am. Why are bisexual women and lesbians automatically lumped in with queer folk? Calling any woman who isn't 100% straight lanced, heterosexual "queer" is, in my opinion, something of an insult to women. I am a female, and queer doesn't define me. Females are half the population. I'm not "cis", binary, non-binary, zi/hir, or anything other than a woman.
:-) An FTM thrilled with her penis isn't much different then a she male pretending to have a "period". The key thing is leaping beyond reality. But sometimes the rest of the world doesn't want to drink their trans koolaide.
Anon @8:04, I'm happy for you if it's true you can get naked with your partner. But rubbing against your partner does not count as penetration. I watched the ftm porn because I was curious what "t" really does to the femsle genitalia (you hear so much about "dick growth" from ftm's), but the reality is it results in a somewhat enlarged clitoris.Germany
Um, maybe you should look up pictures of genital growth on T. It really does vary quite a lot and some females start with much more. When I say inside, I mean *inside* not rubbing up against. Its heaven to be inside the person you love with your sexual organ, instead of fingers or whatever. If you consider real sexual pleasure a delusion, i cant help you. You don't have to believe me or explain why you wanted to watch ftm porn. I already know you are very, very preoccupied with us.
@November 21, 2013 at 12:37 AMA two inch clitoris is NOT a penis. This is my point. Whether it is a slightly larger than average clitoris or not, the sexual response IS STILL NOT THE SAME AS HOW A BIOLOGICAL MALE EXPERIENCES SEXUAL PLEASURE. THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS, BUT HERE GOES. Despite the slightly larger than average clitoris and increased libido because of testosterone injections, FTMs STILL EXPERIENCE SEXUAL PLEASURE BASICALLY THE SAME AS OTHER FEMALES. "More like 2" which is a laugh compared to most penises. " November 20, 2013 at 11:23 AM If this individual can get her two inch clitoris "inside" a woman, then good for her. If it's satisfying, great. Go for it and enjoy! I'm really struggling to understand the physics of it, but whatever works. When in doubt, look at the physics. Physics doesn't exaggerate like humans. I guess it all depends on how we define "inside". From everything that I've read, testosterone increases the size of a female's clitoris about one to two inches, three at the most. In metrics, that is 2.5 cm to 7.6 cm. (1 inch = 2.5 cm). Males have an average penis size of is 5.6 inches (14.2 cm). I really should not be comparing MALE ANATOMY TO FEMALE ANATOMY BECAUSE A PENIS IS AN ACUTAL ORGAN THAT IS PART OF THE MALE REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM. http://www.albertatrans.org/ftm.shtmlhttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090418132413AAhDrWw"At three years on testosterone it was about 5.5 cm long. Most, if not all, of that growth happened within the first eight months so I didn’t expect it to get any bigger, solely due to testosterone. " (5.5 cm equals about 2 inches) http://www.ftmtransition.com/transition/faq/faqtranst.html#17Genital Growth: This varies immensely from person to person but the clitoris usually ends up around 1-3 inches or so.http://confessionsofanftm.tumblr.com/post/6317188351/changes-on-testosterone-answering-the-unanswerableI have never had any reason to measure the size of my clitoris because I know that it works very well. Indeed, it has never failed me yet. (1.) I don't have to worry about jeopardizing my health by taking an external source of hormones. There are side effects with all drugs. (2.) I don't have to worry about getting blood tests. During the first year of testosterone therapy, your doctor should perform blood tests every three or four months. http://www.ftmguide.org/tandhealth.html (3.) If I'm using testosterone gel, I don't have to worry about testosterone transference to my partner or children. READ THIS IF YOU USE TESTOSTERONE GEL:"Women and children should avoid contact with the unwashed or unclothed area where testosterone gel has been applied to your skin."http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/UCM294248.pdf Transference is really not an issue with injections, but it can be with the gel. Some FTMs have used the gels.
3.) If I'm using testosterone gel, I don't have to worry about testosterone transference to my partner or children. I don't have to worry about testosterone transference. This is what I meant to say.
Possible side effects of testosterone:PolycythemiaTestosterone usage has been shown to increase "erythropoiesis," or red blood cell production. "Polycythemia" is an abnormally high level of red blood cells. An excess of red blood cells thickens the blood, impeding its passage through small blood vessels and causing a number of potential health problems. There are a few different types of polycythemia: "polycythemia vera," "relative polycythemia," and "secondary polycythemiaElevated liver levels & potential liver conditionsTestosterone therapy can cause alterations in liver function tests, cholestatic jaundice, hepatocellular neoplasms (rare), and peliosis hepatis. Specifically, the use of orally-administered C-17 alpha alkylated testosterone has been associated with such complications, in addition to being associated with hepatocellular carcinoma and hepatic adenomas. Oral use of C-17 alpha alkylated testosterone is therefore generally discouraged, as injectable, transdermal, buccal, and pellet delivery methods are thought to significantly lower such risks. No matter which testosterone delivery method is being used, it is prudent to screen the user with liver function tests to monitor the overall health of the liver. Elevated lipid profile/High cholesterolThe higher an individual's level of cholesterol, the higher their risk of coronary heart disease. The lower your LDL cholesterol, the lower your risk of heart attack and stroke. It is also important to maintain a high enough level of HDL, or "good" cholesterol. Excessive total cholesterol contributes to atherosclerosis and subsequent heart disease.High Blood PressureHigh blood pressure, or "hypertension," directly increases the risk of coronary heart disease and stroke, especially along with other risk factors. Testosterone therapy can contribute to raised blood pressure levels. Because of this, and because of other potential risk factors for heart disease such as increased lipid profile or polycythemia, it is wise to monitor blood pressure levels throughout testosterone therapy.AcnePCOS and ovarian and endometrial cancers (PCOS can be a real issue with FTMs who still have their uterus and have been taking testosterone for years.)Some physicians recommend hysterectomy (surgical removal of the uterus) and oophorectomy (surgical removal of the ovaries) within the first 5 years of starting testosterone therapy. This is because there is some concern that long-term testosterone treatment may cause the ovaries to develop similar symptoms as those seen in polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). PCOS has been linked to increased risk of endometrial hyperplasia (a condition that occurs when the lining of the uterus (endometrium) grows too much) and thus endometrial cancer, as well as ovarian cancer.source: http://www.ftmguide.org/tandhealth.html#sideeffectsI'm not a physician, but it's important to get regular blood work.
:-) An FTM thrilled with her penis isn't much different then a she male pretending to have a "period". The key thing is leaping beyond reality. But sometimes the rest of the world doesn't want to drink their trans koolaide.The part about drinking the trans koolaid is true. Males don't menstruate and females don't have a penis. I don't like the term "she male" because to me it's offensive. I don't use the term. However, porn producers use the term "she male" to sell porn of FTM porn star Buck Angel having sex for profit with trans males "she males". You don't have to believe me or explain why you wanted to watch ftm porn. @November 21, 2013 at 12:37 AMIf they don't want people to watch it, then do they produce it? Google "Buck Angel" and shemales. Google "tranny porn" 3 million hits. Google "ftm porn" 30,000 hits. I don't watch porn myself. I don't go to porn sites. I google search phrases to see how many hits there are.
@ November 21, 2013 at 3:45 AM "3-4 times weekly*" Quantity is not better than quality. I hope this isn't turning into some kind pissing contest about who gets more than other people. My main points are:(1.) Females can never experience sexual pleasure the exact same ways as males. (2.) The surgical alteration of one's healthy breasts and genitals has to come with some risk. In FTM "bottom surgery" it's impossible to completely rule out the possibility of loss of sensation. "Top surgery" can result in loss of nipple sensation. It's just common sense. Surgeons are cutting around sensitive areas. Besides a possibility of loss of sensation, there are other risks involved with any surgery. (3.) As to testosterone, all drugs have side effects.(4.) Please keep in mind that in FTM "transitioning" surgery is being performed on physically healthy anatomy.
Y'all are driving yourselves insane. Seriously. Why did you decide it matters to me what a "male" sexual response is vs. a "female" one? I'm enjoying my body, you are saying the same irrelevant shit over and over. We are going straight ahead and living our lives the way we want to whether you say its possible or not. I know people with high blood pressure, cancer, liver disease, heart disease, and lots of other ailments. Not a single one is trans.
As to the quality of my sex life; I'm not doing more often because it ain't good... And yes we are all fully aware of the side effects of taking testosterone; it's why we take it. It's full consent. and none of care about whether we "experience sexual arouse like biological men", we just care about how we feel in our bodies. Testosterone makes me feel complete. It's not even about hating my body, it's about loving my loving and allowing my partner to love my body. I'm not understand why you all seem to think trans people are attacking the female identity. Ftms are simply taking control of their lives. No one is forcing it on us. I came out at 15 years old. Did I use the Internet? Yes, did the Internet force me? No, just came me information to make a better decision for my life. For wet home young FTM online coming out there are plenty of young butches still out there not transitioning. You can cite all the botched surgeries you want, we know the risks going in. We are happier people for it. Yes there was tht case of that poor soul who "choose" enthenization and there are thousands of other happy healthy trans people for that one person. Stop taking the extremes and applying them to everyone else.
Anonymous,":-) An FTM thrilled with her penis isn't much different then a she male pretending to have a "period". The key thing is leaping beyond reality. But sometimes the rest of the world doesn't want to drink their trans koolaide."I'm intersex, I have a uterus, a partially-developed penis, and nasty endocrine problems. I don't want to talk about all I've been through, but when you use porn slurs, and mock people for their bodies, and for how they understand their bodies, you do not help anyone struggling with body issues.Kevin,In my experience, the doctors don't always know all the effects of these hormones, so, at best, it's very important for people to educate themselves, and to remember what seems to be helping now may be hurting in the long run.Mary
I'm intersex, I have a uterus, a partially-developed penis, and nasty endocrine problems. I don't want to talk about all I've been through, but when you use porn slurs, and mock people for their bodies, and for how they understand their bodies, you do not help anyone struggling with body issues.Every major intersex (disorders of sexual development) organization makes a distinction between disorders of sexual development and intersex. DSD AND TRANSGENDER ARE NOT THE SAME THING. DSD are actual medical and genetic conditions whereas transgender is essentially all in one's mind. THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRANSGENDER IDENTIFIED PEOPLE HAVE NO DISORDER OF SEXUAL DEVELOOPMENT. THEY ARE BIOLOGICAL FEMALE OR BIOLOGICAL MALE. As an intersex individual, are you aware of the history of how intersex infants and young children underwent routine surgery on their genitals to look more "normal". The same surgeons who operated on healthy intersex children are some of the same doctors who pioneered sex reassignment surgery. Intersex organizations DO NOT RECOMMEND ROUTINE SURGERY ON INTERSEX CHILDREN. TRANS ACTIVISTS PLANT THE IDEA OF "TRANSITIONING" (SURGERY AND HORMONES) IN THE MINDS OF PERFECTLY HEALTHY 14 AND 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS. THEY STERILIZE CHILDREN THROUGH THE USE OF GnRH AGONISTS AND CROSS GENDER HORMONES. I KNOW MY HISTORY AND I RESPECT ALL INTERSEX. TRANSGENDER IS NOT INTERSEX, BUT TRANS ACTIVISTS CO-OPT INTERSEX LIKE THEY APPROPRIATE EVERYTHING ELSE.
I'm intersex, I have a uterus, a partially-developed penis, and nasty endocrine problems. I don't want to talk about all I've been through, but when you use porn slurs, and mock people for their bodies, and for how they understand their bodies, you do not help anyone struggling with body issues.I'M QUESTIONING WHY PERFECTLY HEATLHY BODIES NEED TO BE MUTILATED. THIS IS THE ISSUE. I'VE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT I FIND THE TERM "SHE MALE" OFFENSIVE. IT'S THE PORN PRODUCERS AND FTM PORN STAR BUCK ANGEL WHO USE THE TERM "SHE MALE" TO SELL PORNOGRAPHY.
I know people with high blood pressure, cancer, liver disease, heart disease, and lots of other ailments. Not a single one is trans. What does cancer have to do with elective cosmetic surgery on healthy tissue and sexual organs?Cancer and liver disease are actual medical conditions. There are lab tests, etc. It's is quantifiable. We can see cancer cells in a lab. How do we quantify "gender dyshphoria"? Transgender is essentially in one's mind, and thus at least partly culturally based. People who are diagnosed with cancer certainly don't choose to have the disease. In cancer surgery, diseased tissue is being removed. FTM "Top surgery", "bottom surgery" is the removal of healthy tissue and the alteration of healthy breasts and genitals.
Nancy/Nathan Verhelst didn't like the results of "top surgery", and expressed concerns that the skin flap from the arm that was sewn onto her female pubic area was about to rot off. Verhelst begged to be euthanized. I would call that serious depression. This individual probably was too emotionally unstable to begin with. According to everything I've read, Verhelst came from a home where the mother favored the boys. Why did doctors push "transitioning" on this depressed and psychologically fragile person? After the release of this article, trans activists started calling the mother all sorts of evil names. It was the mother's fault. The mother might have been a wicked witch for all I know. If a child grows up in a screwed up dysfunctional family, common sense tell us that he or she will have some psychological issues to deal with. Doctors pushed sex reassignment surgery as a cure for something that couldn't be fixed surgically. Did the euthanasia of Nancy/Nathan make trans activists rethink "transitioning". Heck, no. They blamed it on the mother.
When you write in all caps, it means you are shouting, grandma. Shouting at an intersex person in an attempt to bully them into judging and rejecting transpeople, which theydont seem inclined to do. Does medical research know everything about intersex? There are thousands upon thousands of people who's bodies reflect some combination of male and female and I have NO reason to believe that the brain is somehow magically exempt from the forces that cause that variety.
@November 22, 2013 at 1:01 AMI'm not a grandma. Does medical research know everything about intersex? Actually, real doctors and researchers know quite a bit about disorders of sexual development. There are thousands upon thousands of people who's bodies reflect some combination of male and female and I have NO reason to believe that the brain is somehow magically exempt from the forces that cause that variety. What does "there are thousands upon thousands of people who's bodies reflect some combination of male and female" mean? Is this person talking about culture, biology, genetics, or anatomy? The human species is male, female, and rare disorders of sexual development. All primates (human and non-human) reproduce sexually. Masculinity and femininity are culturally based. Please don't insult my intelligence and co-opt intersex people by implying that trans people have some kind of special lady like "intersex brain", or dude like "intersex brain". There is a major problem with this notion. Every major disorders of sexual development organization (intersex) makes a distinction between DSD and transgender.
@November 22, 2013 at 1:01 AMI get carried away with caps, and I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to intersex people. Perhaps the ultimate form of disrespect is appropriating someone's identity to prove some cockamamie notion that you are just like them.
Someone keeps bringing up Nathan and his sad tragic story, and it is very sad and tragic. His story, however, is not my story, and it is not 99% of ftms' stories. It's just a popular one on this thread. One another note, the topic of body mutilation keeps being brought up as well. People thought the same thing about tattoos, piercings, and scar modification. It's a choice to do those things and a choose to have surgery. Some people may not agree on whether it's a choice or not or whether it should be a choice at all. It's not your body, don't worry about how I'm making it work for me. I know I don't need to have top surgery, but I want it and it comes down to it being my choice.
Kevin, I wish you all the luck in the world. You seem like a decent person, and I apologize for giving you a hard time. Although they might not be as seriously depressed after "transitioning" as Verhelst, I seriously doubt that 99% of FTMs are completely happy after all the surgery and drugs. They might not be as depressed as Verhelst (you really have to be depressed to beg to be euthanized), but are they fully satisfied? I don't know what the percentage are. Is it 70% or 80%? Does anyone know? It's not that hard to find stories online of FTMs being unhappy with "top surgery". The thing about sex reassignment surgery is not something that can easily be undone. It's not the same thing as a tattoo or piercing. It's a fact that some doctors are all too eager to push the idea of transitioning. This happened at the first of the year."The London-based GP is accused of prescribing sex change hormones “to several patients” that were not appropriate and also ignoring restrictions placed on his practice. In one case reportedly under investigation by the GMC, the doctors’ regulator, a woman complained she regretted undergoing treatment, which included having a double mastectomy and taking hormones.In another case, it was alleged Dr Curtis, 46, prescribed sex change drugs to patients under 18, without the specialist knowledge or skills to do so. It is alleged that Dr Curtis, who provides private treatment to patients pursuing “gender reassignment”, failed to follow accepted standards of care. "http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9784545/Dr-Richard-Curtis-transsexual-doctor-faces-investigation.htmlAgain, I wish you well.
Actually, there are many, more cases of ambiguous genitalia at birth than are mentioned. Masculinization of "female"genitalia occurs at a much higher rate than any of us know about. Does this process magically avoid affecting the brain? I don't think so. I know more than a few transmen who had unwanted genital surgery at birth or in their youth. I'm one of them, and I cannot co-opt what's already mine.
Intersex is a biological reality, and trans is purely in the head.Germany
There's a reason that Dirt doesn't want the word intersex on her blog.It has nothing to do with transtrenders at all.Big
Oh? Does she not want intersex people to post here either? Are they not suitable to weigh in on the topic?
@November 22, 2013 at 9:18 AMAre you talking about CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia) which is a disorder of sexual development? I'm really confused. The vast majority of transgender identified females have no DSD. They weren't exposed to anymore testosterone in fetal development than other females. It's possible for a person with a DSD to identify as transgender, but trans and DSD (intersex) are NOT the same thing. @November 23, 2013 at 8:43 PMThe point people have been trying to make is that disorders of sexual development are not the same thing as transgender. Please do some research by going to some reputable DSD websites. @November 23, 2013 at 8:43 PMOh? Does she not want intersex people to post here either? Are they not suitable to weigh in on the topic?If I might ask, what disorder of sexual development do you have? I don't want to pry, but since you said you are intersex, I thought I would ask.I know more than a few transmen who had unwanted genital surgery at birth or in their youth Does this mean they had a disorder of sexual development or some other medical condition? I don't want to pry, but you brought it up? What is "more than a few" because physically, the majority of transgender identified females are no different than other females.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you are not qualified to theorize about the level of testosterone *any* transmen were exposed to in the womb. In anecdotal evidence, I've known at least three transmen who had ambiguous genitalia with NO chromosomal anomalies and many more who had natural levels of testosterone much much higher than the average for a female. I'm not knocking down the doors of the intersex club, but I will not accept your judgement regarding my identity or what I do with my body. You just have no idea.
CAH is the main cause of ambiguous genitalia in females. There are varying degrees virilization. The adrenal glands that sit atop the kidneys can't produce a certain enzyme to make corticosteriods. To compensate for this, the adrenal glands start pumping out androgens. Possible causes in genetic females Causes of ambiguous genitalia in a genetic female may include: Congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Certain forms of this genetic condition cause the adrenal glands to make excess male hormones (androgens).Prenatal exposure to male hormones. Certain drugs that contain male hormones or that stimulate production of the male hormones in a pregnant woman can cause developing female genitals to become more masculine. Examples include progesterone, which is a medication sometimes taken in the early stages of pregnancy, and anabolic steroids. A developing baby may also be exposed to excess male hormones if the mother has a disease or condition that causes hormone imbalance.Tumors. Rarely, a tumor in the mother can produce male hormoneshttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ambiguous-genitalia/DS00668/DSECTION=causesActually, I'm pretty sure you are not qualified to theorize about the level of testosterone *any* transmen were exposed to in the womb.I'm pretty sure you are not qualified to theorize either. Maybe I was exposed to more androgens during fetal development than you were. Maybe my neighbor was. Who knows? You seem to imply that you are an intersex individual, but when I politely ask what DSD you have, you don't answer. Have a nice weekend! Please take time to do some research.
Well, I'm not a medical doctor but I'm in the science field and rather than wishy-washy speculation of who may have been exposed to what, I'd like to see some numbers and sources. All we know for sure now is that modern medicine has a large volunteer group of females they can experiment freely on as to what the effects of testosterone in the female body are. Without the trans trend, this experimentation could never take place.Germany
About the time in the womp:The testosteron theory is old and overruled. Read the book Brainstorm from Jordan-Young. She puts it in a whole new perspective.@ Germany, you're so right about experiments on women with testosteron. Even I learn a lot about what testosteron can do to a mind by watching YouTube video's. Somehow I understand men better then I did before. It's kinda shocking what testosteron can do when it comes to e.g. agression and not caring about others.BigBig
"You seem to imply that you are an intersex individual, but when I politely ask what DSD you have, you don't answer." Not that its any of your business, but like I said, I had unwanted genital surgery as a kid. My genitals started to look more male than female in my childhood. If you look at "Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex" by Alice Dreger, you will learn about all the intersex conditions that occur at a much higher frequency than we thought and are not spoken about. I've never had my chromosomes checked because it doesn't really matter at this point, does it? For what- to gain approval from a bunch of skeptical and hateful lesbians who wish they were the gatekeepers of transition? You hold no power. Nor should you. All you write about is projected from your own experience, ignorance and fear. You have no humility or ability to imagine another's experience. That's pure hubris-like a child. You believe other people are just like you, perhaps your fragile ego is too large, or because you are too afraid to walk your own path in this life. You claim people as defectors who never belonged to you.
There are many surgeries which remove healthy tissue those involved in transition are not the only example of this. Breast reduction, liposuction, and lasik eye surgery are a few examples. Would you tell a biological female they cannot pursue these surgeries because they remove healthy tissue? What makes one elective surgery that removes healthy tissue wrong and others not? If you say it is the riks involved I say all of the above surgeries have risks including some which are very serious such as loss of vision (lasik), infection, severe scarring, and even death as all surgeries carry the risk of death during the procedure. Even though for some the risk is lower than others or even practically nonexistent it is still there. I merely want an honest answer free of rhetoric to this question, if you see one elective surgery that removes healthy tissue as wrong then are they all and if not why? What is the real concrete difference between transition and other elective plastic surgeries and would you deny all such surgeries to biological women? If not I do not see the validity of the current arguments against transition.
Are you saying, Fox, that so-called SRS is merely a body modification and not the life-or-death necessity that it's so often explained to us stupid 'cis' people as? I honestly don't care if people do nutty things to their bodies for the most part (though I know a lot of it is done because of assorted psychological and societal issues) but I must be permited to think of these FTMs that I see as just that- women with body mods (or the other way around with the men), because that is what they look like and that is the vibe they give off, with a palpable insecurity always.
I've also never seen any feminist say that she wants to 'deny' anybody any kind of surgery.
A body modification can be life or death, that's not the issue I'm concerned with here, I'm concerned with the assertion that it is wrong to get srs. My point is medically speaking srs and body modifications are similar so why is srs made out to be mutilative and not the others? As to denial of surgery many here have said people should not be allowed to have srs, many of these people have also claimed to be feminists, thus feminists have claimed they wish to deny people the ability to get srs.
Palpable insecurities? Like the overweight dykes stuffed into men's pants which don't flatter them ? Or the brassy, obnoxiously assertive or misogynistic butches who take up too much space to compensate for their insecurities? Or the ones who use femmes as props? Or wait, the gay men who starve themselves and make bitchy comments about people's appearances all the time? They seem so comfortable with themselves. How about regular old people who are short, fat acne-scarred, flat-chested, big-nosed, horse-faced,buck-toothed or plain old ugly? I mean, their insecurity is so palpable. It makes me so uncomfortable. I wish everyone looked like Barbie or Ken, because thats what I'm striving to look like. You may also do whatever you want with your body, but I must be permitted to think you are a useless shitbird. Goodnight.
What is concerning is the number of FTMs who have undergone some stage of transition ad are now truley suffering months and years later. Some are developing serious complications in regard to T levels and the effect on the body...and mind. Research is decided limited and a good majority of mistreated FTMs take to YouTube to solicit advice from peers in regard to their personal health.While understanding the radical social discomfort of functioning on the planet as female, the widespread confusion and experimental nature of transgender science should make any reasonable woman run like hell.
You can think I'm a 'useless shitbird' if you like, but that is not technically what I am, unlike 'transsexuals' who do remain biologically their real sex. And yes there are other people who have noticeable insecurities but there is a very particular type that transes all seem to share that, like it or not (and I don't), really jumps out at me. And I do think that a certain variety of 'butches' have a similar uneasiness about them and those are the ones who can easily be indoctrinated into the trans belief system.
(same anonymous from 8:07)also, I'm not just picking on people for being ugly or something; I am feeling their sadness.(and I'm not a big fan of other elective surgeries either)
I find it really interesting that not one person has actually answered any of the questions I asked.
Technically, hormones are biological and physical transition with hormones is a biological process. Secondary sex characteristics are biological, as is cessation if menses. People dont relate to the world through their chrosomes. Their identities are formed because of cultural, relational, and sociological forces. Because of the biological process of transition, I am recognized as male socially and that's how people relate to me. And have been relating to me for 12 years. That in itself forms a sociological meaning and history. It makes no difference to me what you think of me as, but it also has no relevance to my life. Not a single person here has been able to quantify what being female should mean to me because you can't agree on what it means to you. I can go around picking out tortured-looking women who seem to wish they had different bodies and I can identify those people as trans, but it has no meaning for anyone but me. And no, you cannot visually pick out everyone who is trans.
Fox, the health risks have more to do with taking testosteron for years, not the surgeries.The surgeries are different then breast enlargement or whatever, SRS changes the gender appearance and that's really something else. There are more and more transtrenders who detransition, it's not cosmetic surgery. I can't believe that you think it's simular.Big
Technically, hormones are biological and physical transition with hormones is a biological process.Technically, the hormones you take are synthetic.
Not a single person here has been able to quantify what being female should mean to me because you can't agree on what it means to you.Being female simply means being female! Nothing to do with how one thinks or feels or dresses etc. I think most people agree with that aside from the extreme gender conservatives.
it's the almost mystical attributes that trans believers ascribe to male and female that makes them seem more like members of a religious cult than anything
My point is medically speaking srs and body modifications are similar so why is srs made out to be mutilative and not the others? No, there are several major differences between sex reassignment surgery and body modification. (1.) Sex reassignment surgery doesn't actually change one's sex. Speaking from a biological perspective, people can't change their sex any more than they can change their species. SRS radically alters healthy breasts, genitals, and reproductive systems, but it doesn’t change a male into a female, or a female into a male. Taking on some of the physical outward characteristics of the opposite sex is NOT the same as actually changing one’s sex. The DNA isn't changed. Other plastic surgery procedures don't claim to turn a human being into something that is not physically possible. (2.) Sex reassignment surgery can drastically impact one's ability to reproduce. Does body modification do this? Are we to believe that castrating a male is just like "body modification". Is this what this individual is saying? When animals are castrated, does the rancher call it a "body modification"? I know that humans aren't animals, but castration is still castration in that male testicles are cut out and discarded. As to FTMs (biological females who “transition”), PCOS can be an issue with long term testosterone use if the ovaries and uterus are still retained. “Some physicians recommend hysterectomy (surgical removal of the uterus) and oophorectomy (surgical removal of the ovaries) within the first 5 years of starting testosterone therapy. This is because there is some concern that long-term testosterone treatment may cause the ovaries to develop similar symptoms as those seen in polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). PCOS has been linked to increased risk of endometrial hyperplasia (a condition that occurs when the lining of the uterus (endometrium) grows too much) and thus endometrial cancer, as well as ovarian cancer.”http://www.ftmguide.org/tandhealth.html#pcos(3.) In sex reassignment surgery, because the surgeon is cutting around sensitive genital and nipple areas, the possibility of loss of sexual sensation can't entirely be ruled out. This applies to both MTF and FTM.
Several ways SRS is different than body modification continued..(4.) MTF sex reassignment surgery doesn’t create a vagina and female sex organs. A vagina is an actual organ that is part of the female reproductive system. A vagina is attached to the cervix which is part of the uterus, and so forth. Babies emerge from the vagina. A neovagina isn’t attached to anything. It’s essentially an artificially created cavity whose sole purpose is for penetration. As to FTM, a phalloplasty doesn’t create a “penis” that is comparable to a penis on a male. A penis is part of the male reproductive system. A skin flap from the arm or other donor site that is sewn onto the female pubic area is not the same as a “penis”. Complications of SRS are common. Below is the story of complications of surgery that one MTF experienced.http://www.bilerico.com/2010/06/sex_reassignment_surgery_when_things_go_wrong.phpThis is an excellent article on some of the side effects of FTM “bottom surgery”. Taking the skin flap from the arm leaves scaring on the arm, and the arm and hand often need months of healing and rehabilitation. Does body modification involve taking about six to eight inches of skip flap from the arm to be sewn onto the pubic area? If so, this is a radical "body modification". I wasn't aware that surgeons called these types of skin flaps "body modification"http://ftmwillingtohelp.tumblr.com/“I had seen pictures from the arm graft so I sort of knew what to expect, yet the pictures I had seen where months post surgery, so I had no idea what to expect when they took everything off.I quietly sat as the nurse removed the the bandages, my skin was stained yellow underneath the foam from the cream they had put on, and finally the moment of truth arrived, the nurse cut off the foam around the staples which she would remove after.I sat there, bile rising in my throat, I was horrified, it was horrible, it looked disgusting. The layer of skin was so thin I could see the white outline of the bone in my arm, the skin was a red purple colour and the bits of the skin graft that overlapped onto the unaffected parts of my arm was black.”I hope these individuals are doing well, and wish them a full recovery. (5.) "Transitioning" is for all practical purposes a life time pursuit. Most people don't spend their entire lives undergoing some type of body modification. Cross gender hormones have to be taken for life. This applies to both MTFs and FTMs. There are other things that require a great deal of time. In MTF, dilation is required for the life time of the patient because an artificially created cavity in the human body tends to want to constrict and heal. If the neovagina on a MTF isn’t dilated, it will shrink and constrict like any wound tends to do. This has to be done for the lifetime of the patient. During the first months after surgery, dilation is more frequent, but frequency of dilation is shortened. “Why do you have to dilate? Several things are happening. The surrounding tissues, including the PC muscle, are trying to move back to their original positions, forcing the neovagina closed. The scar tissue that is forming is contracting, again closing the neovagina. As if this wasn’t enough, when the neovagina relaxes and contracts between dilations, it develops wrinkles. These wrinkles will actually start healing together, narrowing the diameter of the neovagina. This will continue until the tissue has enough time to heal, so adequate dilation must be maintained during the healing process.Obviously, you have to dilate frequently, for at least 30 to 45 minutes at least six times per day at first. You also have to pay attention to the quality of your dilations. Your dilators need to have several features to make absolutely certain that you are getting the best possible dilation for your time and effort:http://library.transgenderzone.com/?page_id=611
(6.) While both SRS and body modification can have botched results that the person is disgusted or unhappy with, sex reassignment surgery is very difficult to undo. Tattoos can be lasered off and piercing can be removed. How do we undo FTM "top surgery" on a female? FTM "top surgery" basically amounts to elective mastectomies with the surgical trimming down of areolas and nipples. This is FTM "top surgery" (Double incision mastectomy with areola and nipple grafting)http://www.topsurgery.net/resources/videos/dr-medalie-double-incision-top-surgery.htmIf you haven't seen this video, please watch the entire video. The areolas and nipples are literally cut off, resized, and then sewn back on after the mastectomy. If the nipple graft doesn't take, it's gone for good. Loss of sensation is also common. (7.) Nothing that I'm aware of makes a more radical alteration to healthy female breasts and genitals than FTM "transitioning". What actually goes on in FTM "transitioning" is more than simple "body modification". The goal of breast augmentation is to enhance the breasts whereas the primary goal of FTM "top surgery" is to get rid of every vestige of the female form or appearance. We aren't adding to the female form. Instead, we are trying to surgically erase female anatomy, and replace it with a facsimile of a male.
An example of botched "top surgery" By: SBOTTOM LINE: DON’T choose to have surgery with Dr. Leis. If you feel you have no other choice, WAIT. You will be glad you did. For those who want a more detailed explanation, read on. Dr. Leis is dishonest and incompetent. I speak from personal experience, having suffered a botched bilateral mastectomy (FTM chest surgery that he performed. Here is my story. Before the surgery, I had very tiny breasts; not even A cup. When I raised my arms high over my head, or looked at my reflection in dim light that cast no shadows, I looked flat-chested. Therefore, top surgery was a low priority for me, and I by no means wanted to rush into it. I was willing to wait to get top surgery until I could receive a letter from my therapist, because when I consulted Dr. Leis, I knew he was dishonest. Several of the answers he gave me about the laws and limitations regarding FTM reassignment surgery were flat out lies; I knew due to my internet research and discussions with other surgeons. Therefore, I had a very bad feeling about him from the start, but I ended up having to get my top surgery from him. (Because I wasn’t trans enough for my therapist, due to liking my hair long and occasionally cross-dressing in my old female clothes, she refused to write me a letter for top surgery and I had to go to Leis because he was the only surgeon I knew who doesn’t require letters. She also refused to let me move forward with my transition until I had my breasts out, but I won’t go into detail about that.) Anyway, despite all my better judgement and intuition, I had the mastectomy with Dr. Leis. While I recovered, I stayed in a rented room in his office building, which was filthy and disgusting. (I even found a soiled bed liner from a previous patient stuffed behind the headboard of my bed!) The surgery seemed to have gone well until a week later, when he removed the bandages to take out the drains. http://www.susans.org/Sex_Reassignment_Surgery/FTM_Surgeons/6924.html
Botched "top surgery" continued..Then I saw the scars were large and very uneven, and my nipples still looked female. He seemed perplexed about why “they” had not stitched the drain in on one side. (He never told me anyone else would be involved in the surgery, and denied that anyone was afterward.) He assured me the scars would fade to nothing and my nipples would flatten out on their own in a few months, then he taped my wounds (insufficiently), and sent me home a few days later… …without a prescription for antibiotics. By the time my designated driver took me home (only a few hours later), my wounds were aching and oozing, and I had to go to the emergency care clinic because they had become infected. After a little internet research, I discovered Dr. Leis has a long record of infections due to his unwillingness to prescribe preventative antibiotics after surgery. (As for the stipulation that he does not wear gloves, I can’t comment, because I don’t know.) When I went back for a follow-up appointment about a month later, he assured me my result was “beautiful” and healing perfectly, despite the scars becoming red, raised, and painful, and the nipples not flattening a bit. He refused to listen to any of my complaints or questions, dismissing me as a perfectionist. (For the record, I wasn’t expecting perfection, but even to my untrained eye I looked much worse afterwards than before.) At my time of writing this, it has been about half a year, and nothing has changed since that first month. My scars are still an angry red – very obvious against my white skin – and they cause me frequent stabbing pains. My nipples still protrude and look female. I cannot go shirtless in public due to shame and self-hatred. The few times I tried, people avoided me out of disgust, and several called me out as a transsexual because the scars made it so obvious what used to be there. I refuse to ever take my shirt off in public again until (or should I say if) I can get my scars revised, which so far is not working at all. I have frequently cried myself to sleep over my mutilated chest, as well as the death of my lifelong dream of finally being able to go shirtless without shame. I am trying to file a lawsuit against Dr. Leis for his incompetence and his dishonesty, in order to earn money to pay for my costly revisions as well as to put a much-needed dent in his undeserved good public reputation. If any of you who read this have had a similar nightmarish experience with this surgeon and are willing to provide evidence for my case, please contact me at the email address specified below (those underscores are supposed to be there; they are not typos) and put “Dr. Leis” in the subject line. It will be much appreciated. Date added: Jul 28, 2011
Because I wasn’t trans enough for my therapist, due to liking my hair long and occasionally cross-dressing in my old female clothesThis line is so odd. Not trans enough? Not trans at all!Good to hear that some therapists don't write that letter.
We have read this account before. Its a very rare occurrence. Dr. Leis has a bad reputation. I'm just wondering- does anyone here think we should outlaw abortion? I mean, there's a real statistic of regret there, and its not something you can go back on in ANY way.... Just wondering.
So I get rhetoric and no answers, medically speaking most plastic surgery is cosmetic and or body modification severity does not change its classification. Also could someone answer my question instead of going on about the specific description I used.
Do you think ppl read all way back to find your question, Fox? Yeah, right.
I know, what was her question? I thought it was something like 'why don't you think other elective cosmetic surgeries are mutilative?' I personally do think that they are. I became aware of this as a teenager when my Jewish friends started getting nose jobs. But the 'gender' thing is entirely different because not only are you pretending to be something you're not but demanding that other people pretend to believe in it as well. Also, of course, because of the absurdity of the new theories of gender which seem more supernatural than anything else but are presented to the public like some kind of proven science.
The same way that people who have had plastic surgery in attempts to look younger only look like older people with plastic surgery (my own mother is one of these people), those who have undergone 'SRS' simply look like people of their real sex who are trying to resemble the other.
So the vast majority of time in a transgender life is spent worrying about passing in public. What a drain on the spirit.
If that was the questen, we answered it. But Fox probably doesn't want to hear our answers. That whole passing in public thing is not worth to worry about. I pass sometimes, who cares? LOL For me it matters that I love myself and know who I am. When I love yself, others can do it too.Big
I spend no time worry bout whether or not I pass, I am man enough for me and that's what matters and I haven't had any surgeries. Though I plan to have top surgery.
I dunno. I pass completely and have for years. When I come out to people as a transsexual they either don't believe me at all or they thinkI'm an mtf who hasn't started transitioning. Most transmen only spend a short time not passing. Our spirits recover. ;-) How's yours?
personally,my spirit is vexed on occasion. and you will say I shouldn't bother, all is well in trans land,none of my business. but you can see from these pages hundreds of women believe that something is tragically and morally amiss regarding the ftm phenomena. it springs from very real prosecution and oppression over the ages.overall, my spirit is strong,fluid and brilliant, as is my hope for all.
When you've seen as many girls 'transition' as I have you notice them much more easily than the average person does (mostly it's around the eyes, the giveaway)- actually, the more media attention trans gets the more the general public will be able to pick out the 'transitioners,' so that should be interesting.