Change Your World-NOT your Body

Wednesday, March 6, 2013

Transmen and the Benefits of Joining Patriarchy

What are some of the critical ways has that trans females benefit from transition??? And do those benefits inform/aid in their transition?

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19 comments:

  1. Economics and male privilege....

    Even in industrialized countries men control industry, finance, the military, and most political institutions. Being male does come with its perks. Are there benefits associated with joining patriarchy? Some FTMs even say that better jobs is one reason they "transition". People should stop being so disingenuous by saying that the only reason females "transition" is because they are "men trapped in a woman's body". Misogyny and cold hard economics can also influene the desire to "transition". While people play along with this "gender identity" charade, people know it's happening. I argue that it is impossible to distinguish between "gender dysphoria" and internalized misogyny. FTMs trade in their female identity for male privilege. I wish people would stop pretending.

    "....for many female-to-male
    transsexuals, becoming a man brings increases in workplace respect, authority, and, in
    some cases, earnings..."

    “My transition went extremely smoothly. I was shocked at how smooth. No one even
    talks about it and it had no effect on my pay. If anything, I have been better accepted at
    work because people don’t see me as a dyke like before.”


    Before and After: Gender Transitions, Human Capital, and Workplace Experiences

    http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/wiswall/research/schilt_wiswall_transsexual.pdf

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  2. "While people play along with this "gender identity" charade, people know it's happening."

    I believe people have relationships to their own gender that go deeper and start earlier than issues of economics and privilege. Certainly no transwoman gets privilege by transitioning. I personally could not have given a flying fuck about getting privilege when I transitioned because I was too worried about losing my friends, my family, and my community. I was worried about being "found out" by hostile people, who are everywhere. In fact, I almost committed suicide before I transitioned. Society has nothing but contempt, pity, and hatred for transsexuals. We are the lowest of the low. And there's no way for you to separate your adoption of that hatred from your political analysis. That's why your shit falls on deaf ears.

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  3. I'm a transmen with cp. I still get treated the same. People with disabilities often get the same treatment regardless of gender. But it does not bother me. I'm just happy to be me. I can't relate to this topic. I don't agree with all that you say but I see where you're coming from with things except the whole not respecting thing, but hey that's you. I accept that. And I know ppl don't respect you and I'm sorry. I wish that they saw were youre coming from vista versa

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  4. "While people play along with this "gender identity" charade, people know it's happening."

    I believe people have relationships to their own gender that go deeper and start earlier than issues of economics and privilege. Certainly no transwoman gets privilege by transitioning. I personally could not have given a flying fuck about getting privilege when I transitioned because I was too worried about losing my friends, my family, and my community. I was worried about being "found out" by hostile people, who are everywhere. In fact, I almost committed suicide before I transitioned. Society has nothing but contempt, pity, and hatred for transsexuals. We are the lowest of the low. And there's no way for you to separate your adoption of that hatred from your political analysis. That's why your shit falls on deaf ears.

    Women are just as oppressed as transsexuals. Women are killed, raped, and brutalized every day. In fact, it's so common that violence against women is taken granted. It goes like this. Women are supposed to drop everything and focus all our attenion on transgender because they are the most oppressed people on the entire planet. Lesbians are hated just as much as transgender ever were. Transgender joke about bashing in the head of a lesbian with a baseball bat (Google Anthony Casebeer and Cathy Brennan), and make statements about planting rad fems (radical feminists) in the ground and eviscerating lesbians.

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/aeryn-fulton-post-doctorate-medical-research-pittsburgh-death-threats/

    I wish people would stop using the word "transition". "Transitioning"often involves surgery and hormones. SRS can never change one's sex. "Transitioning" or sex reassignment surgery is nothing more than cosmetic or plastic surgery on one's healthy genitals and breasts. Since when did surgery and drugs become "transitioning"?

    In fact, I almost committed suicide before I transitioned.

    I'm very sorry about this. If I had a dollar for every time I thought about killing myself, I would be as rich as Bill Gates. If someone did a survey and asked butch lesbians if they ever thought of suicide at some time in their lives, I bet 90% would say yes.



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  5. I believe people have relationships to their own gender that go deeper and start earlier than issues of economics and privilege.

    Nearly all females receive messages that they are inferior to males from the time they are born. Discrimination based on the biological reality of sex is a historic fact that spans thousands of years.

    By the way, economics and privilege have a great deal to do with it.

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  6. Most people who aren't at the root of the problem will not claim women are not oppressed. I would imagine butch women have a harder time. It sucks, nobody denies that. No sensible person will claim trans rights are any more important than women's rights. Each group of people have their own fair share of battles to be fought. Women are raped, killed and brutalized every day.. So are trans people. Women don't earn the same wages for the same work in the work place.. neither do trans people. Many here are under the false impression that trans people transition in order to receive male privileges and I argue that that's not the case.

    There are many people who take similar paths and get similar results but their motives are very different than the person who is truly suffering from severe gender dysphoria and in the end these people are not transsexuals.

    There are many sick, twisted and evil women in the world. Women who rape, torture and murder for any number of reasons. Why is it that when a trans person turns out to be some evil twisted sick fuck who murders, rapes, or kills someone it's seen as a bigger threat/problem? We are all human and no matter what our gender, sex or sexual orientation we are all capable of extreme goodness and and extreme evilness. No group of people is free of those who fit either extreme.

    anon @6:09 You may not realize it but you showed a good example of the risk many trans people take when they decide to transition. It is clear that person EXPECTED problems to arise at their work place as a result of their transition but those problems didn't happen. Wouldn't you be happy about that too? This person did not expect any privileges at all, in fact they expected problems. Not a lot of trans people have such a smooth experience while transitioning at work. I would argue that more trans people suffer from discrimination, mistreatment, hostile work environments, loss of their job and extreme stress in the work place than receive any of the male privileges you speak about.

    Anon@9:31, I'm not sure where you get all of your information but transition involves a whole lot more than hormones and surgery. And who in their right mind would even try to claim that surgery for trans people actually changes the persons sex? It's more about trying to achieve an outward physical appearance that matches ones internal identification. Now if you want to get technical about it the social security administration and most vital statistics offices believe if you have SRS than your sex has been changed and thus they allow a trans persons gender marker to me changed, but I don't know any trans person who believes that their sex is changes via hormones or surgery.

    anon@ 9:37 You stated "Nearly all females receive messages that they are inferior to males from the time they are born. Discrimination based on the biological reality of sex is a historic fact that spans thousands of years. By the way, economics and privilege have a great deal to do with it. " You talk as if you actually know something about the majority of trans people's experiences in the work place, their feelings concerning their gender, their struggles and their motives for transitioning. If you knew anything about it at all you wouldn't risk making such asinine statements. After all who would intentionally make themselves appear so ignorant. You also fail to acknowledge that there are many people who are refuse to acknowledge a trans persons transition and continue to see them as their biological sex regardless. Without a clean start at a new job and sometimes even city(post surgery, hormones and name change) most trans people never escape it. Ignorance is bliss.

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  7. I'm sitting in a specialist's office, and therefore thinking about My Trans Body for the first time in years... Generally I am working as a professor (teaching nothing about gender btw) and loving my husband and my life. My regular GP takes care of my allergies etc. Trans stuff no longer comes up.

    So this morning, as I said, I'm actually thinking about My Trans Body instead of just living in it. That thinking, plus a little research for my appt. has led me back, for the first time in a long time, into the online realm of idiots yelling at their computer screens whilst policing others' gender. Y A W N ! ! ! Y'all need to get outside more and breathe deeply & ponder why all (and/or any) of us are on this planet. It can't be for such mounds of vitriol & fury, signifying - in the end - nothing. - Not that gender is nothing. 'Course not! But living in a self-imposed anger bubble 24/7? Does, has, and will amount to nothing. Just noise that will fade as you do from the earth.

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  8. You also fail to acknowledge that there are many people who are refuse to acknowledge a trans persons transition and continue to see them as their biological sex regardless. Without a clean start at a new job and sometimes even city(post surgery, hormones and name change) most trans people never escape it. Ignorance is bliss.

    If a human is born a biological female non intersex which, as I understand it, represents the vast majority of female "transitioners", she can never fully be a male. With surgery and hormones, she can take on the outward physical characteristics of a male, but this is essentially all that happens. People can't change their DNA. People can never truly change their sex. It's not seen in primates, and isn't even seen in mammals.

    There are many ways for people to re-invent themselves without surgery or a life time of cross gender hormones.

    You also fail to acknowledge that there are many people who are refuse to acknowledge a trans persons transition and continue to see them as their biological sex regardless.

    I hate to say this, but the idea that it's possible to surgically create a female from a male human, or to surgically create a male from a female human was something that was forced on people. It's really not possible, but people just go along with it. In the case of FTM, female identity is lost. I see the erasing of female identity as well as the radical alteration of healthy female breasts, genitals, and reproductive systems as a feminist issue. How can the erasing of female identity not be a feminist issue.

    I'm also concerned with the way that the transgender community constantly promotes "transitioning". There are 15 and 16 year old girls who are already talking about "T" and are wearing binders. Even though it knows full well that breast binding can possibly deform the rib cage, trans girls on youtube talk about "T" and binding all the time. There are even used binder programs whereby older trans give used binders to teenagers.

    There are many people who take similar paths and get similar results but their motives are very different than the person who is truly suffering from severe gender dysphoria and in the end these people are not transsexuals.

    Transsexual is a social prescribed cure for something that might or might not exist. I've always said that certain people throughout history have always stepped outside of traditional sex roles. Before Chaz Bono "transitioned", I knew at least ten butch lesbians that were far more tough and rough in behaviors, dress, etc. than Bono or Thomas Beatie, the pregant FTM transman ever were. I think part of the reason that many people who "transition" is that they are influenced by everything they see on youtube videos and hear from their friends.

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  9. Jack Rabbit:

    Just noise that will fade as you do from the earth.

    All humans who are alive will eventually fade from the earth. Unfortuntately, some things never seem to fade completey away.

    The thousand year history of various forms of mutilation of the female body has never completely faded from the earth. In the link to the video below, notice how the areolas and nipples are surgically removed, whittled down to size, then sewn back on after the elective mastectomy.

    Some people don't want to see the violence being carried out against the female sex.


    http://www.surgerytheater.com/video/6423/Dr.%20Daniel%20Medalie%20performs%20FtM%20top%20surgery%20(double%20incision%20mastectomy%20with%20nipple%20grafting)

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  10. You talk as if you actually know something about the majority of trans people's experiences in the work place, their feelings concerning their gender, their struggles and their motives for transitioning. If you knew anything about it at all you wouldn't risk making such asinine statements. After all who would intentionally make themselves appear so ignorant. You also fail to acknowledge that there are many people who are refuse to acknowledge a trans persons transition and continue to see them as their biological sex regardless. Without a clean start at a new job and sometimes even city(post surgery, hormones and name change) most trans people never escape it. Ignorance is bliss.

    I was just quoting a few things from an economic study that says "....for many female-to-male
    transsexuals, becoming a man brings increases in workplace respect, authority, and, in
    some cases, earnings..."

    "On the other hand, for many FTMs, becoming men
    can bring an increase in workplace authority, reward, and respect, as well as new job
    opportunities and promotions (e.g. Griggs 1998; Schilt 2006a, 2006b)."

    Before and After: Gender Transitions, Human Capital, and Workplace Experiences


    http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/wiswall/research/schilt_wiswall_transsexual.pdf

    Males are more valued in society. This is nothing new. We really don't need economic studies to tell us this. Females who "transition" gain privilege by dropping their female identity and joing patriarchy.

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  11. Now if you want to get technical about it the social security administration and most vital statistics offices believe if you have SRS than your sex has been changed and thus they allow a trans persons gender marker to me changed, but I don't know any trans person who believes that their sex is changes via hormones or surgery.

    If it's true that "I don't know any trans person who believes that their sex is changes via hormones or surgery." then why do so many transsexuals demand that their sex be legally changed.

    SEX REASSIGNMENT SURGERY DOES NOT CHANGE SEX. IT'S COSMETIC OR PLASTIC SURGERY ON ONE'S GENTIALS AND/OR BREASTS AND A LIFE TIME OF CROSS GENDER HORMONES. THEREFORE, WHY ARE PEOPLE EVEN ALLOWED TO LEGALLY CHANGE THEIR SEX?

    I BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.

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  12. There are many sick, twisted and evil women in the world. Women who rape, torture and murder for any number of reasons.Why is it that when a trans person turns out to be some evil twisted sick fuck who murders, rapes, or kills someone it's seen as a bigger threat/problem?

    Yes, there are some sick and twisted women, but the vast majority of people committing rape and sexual assault are males. Simply because the male in question might wear a skirt doesn't mean that he can't be a rapist. Google Sherri Masbruch who, from the last time I checked, was in a women's prison. I know it's strange to have a biological male as an inmate in a women's prison, but we have trans activists to thank for this. Sherri Masbruch is a biological male who tied two women up, then sadistically shocked them with an electrical cord before raping them. Perhaps the women that were in the same prison with Sherri Masbruch don't want a male inmate next to them. Or, perhaps mothers don't want their daughters using the same restroom with transgender/cross dresser registered sex offenders Paula Witherspoon or Thomas Lee Benson. I am NOT saying all transgender are predators, but I'm sick and tired of transgender wail and cry "transphobia" because girls and women don't want to shower with middle age men like Colleen Francis, or to be forced to use a restroom with a biological male. The transgender community constantly denies the violence against women.


    http://www.csom.org/pubs/female_sex_offenders_brief.pdf

    The Center for Sex Offender Management from the U.S. Department of Justice states,

    March 2007


    "National criminal justice statistics reveal that of all adults and juveniles who come to the attention of the authorities for sex crimes, females account for less than 10% of these cases (FBI, 2006). Specifically, arrests of women represent only 1% of all adult arrests for forcible rape and 6% of all adult arrests for other sex offenses.

    Census and Caseload Data from Criminal and Juvenile Justice Agencies.


    In contrast to the approximately 140,000 men incarcerated in prisons nationwide for sex crimes, only 1,500 women are estimated to be imprisoned for these offenses (Harrison & Beck, 2005). They represent only 1% of all adults incarcerated for sex offenses, and 2% of all females in prison. Similarly, adolescent girls represent only 2% of the roughly 7,500 sex offenders placed in juvenile residential facilities nationwide, and they account for only 1% of all girls in residential placements (Snyder & Sickmund, 2006).


    In contrast to the burgeoning body of literature describing male sex offenders, the research on female sex offenders is considerably under-developed. Much of what exists is purely descriptive in nature and tends to be based on small samples of women and adolescent girls in clinical settings, making it impossible to draw reliable inferences about any defining characteristics, risk factors, or offense dynamics of female sex offenders as a whole."

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/female_sex_offenders_brief.pd

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  13. I think they do benefit on every level, even if they are at the bottom of the pecking order (small, wide-hips, strange hair patterns, and of course no male genitalia). As for getting a job easier- I guess we're talking about pizza-delivery-type jobs for the predominately very young FtM crowd. We'll see how they fare later in life, because if nothing else they have a lifetime dependancy on needing health insurance ahead of them.
    Germany

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  14. I might be wrong that they benefit on every level. For instance, I would be interested to know if FtMs can join the Boy Scouts or become priests.
    Germany

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  15. There is absolutely male privilege. I have lived it. As I have transitioned people all the sudden think I know more about cars and all sorts of masculine things. This is a fact of the society we live in. Yet resulting from the culmination of all of my experiences, I work tirelessly to use my new found privilege to promote feminist principles, both in the way I treat women and model that behavior for younger men I encounter, and by my non profit work. My transition has nothing to do with my feelings about females. I respect them and actually put them on a pedestal. I love women and believe society should be changed. Women should get fair pay. They should be safe from the threat of rape and other more subtle degradation. My transistion results from the fact that I am just not a woman. In every dream I have ever had from my earliest age I have been male. It is who I am. This is why I transitioned and privilege (I am also White) has been a by product that I have chosen to use as a weapon to wield in fighting for social justice. But, it is not the reason I had to transition.

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  16. "If it's true that "I don't know any trans person who believes that their sex is changes via hormones or surgery." then why do so many transsexuals demand that their sex be legally changed. "

    Well MAYbe because they don't want to explain themselves left right and center. For instance: SSN in Germany are gendercoded. So if someone starts a new job everyone would get to see the number and the person would have to explain themselves over and over again. Which is an annoying invasion of privacy. Same with the marker in the passport. Everytime someone crosses a border they would have to explain themselves. Yes I know you couldn't care less about any transgendered person's right to anything but guess what? A lot of people do and have far less problems with that.
    Oh and on the Germany note: ftms pay higher insurance premiums on car insurance after legally changing the gendermarker - Since Germany (the user Germany not the country) was asking...

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  17. I respect them and actually put them on a pedestal. I love women and believe society should be changed. Women should get fair pay. They should be safe from the threat of rape and other more subtle degradation. My transistion results from the fact that I am just not a woman. In every dream I have ever had from my earliest age I have been male. It is who I am. This is why I transitioned and privilege (I am also White) has been a by product that I have chosen to use as a weapon to wield in fighting for social justice. But, it is not the reason I had to transition.

    This individual respects women, yet thinks being a female is repugnant. How can a human being born female who comes from a womb of a woman say that she "respects women" when she can't even respect herself, and praises the economic benefits, perks, and privileges of being a man.

    To me, this statement is rather interesting:

    This is why I transitioned and privilege (I am also White) has been a by product that I have chosen to use as a weapon to wield in fighting for social justice. But, it is not the reason I had to transition.

    So, this individual admits that being male, especially a white male definitely has advantages, but this never entered this individual's decision to trade in her female identity.

    This is why I transitioned and privilege (I am also White) has been a by product that I have chosen to use as a weapon to wield in fighting for social justice. But, it is not the reason I had to transition.

    IF THIS IS TRUE, THERE IS NO ACTUAL WAY TO PROVE IT. The burden is not on this individual to prove that she is "transitioning" because it's just so difficult and suffocating to be a woman not to mention econommics and social standing associated with being male. We must go along with the idea that stepping up in status and social standing had no bearing whatsoever in "transitioning". Many FTMs enjoy the male privilege, and I wish people would stop pretending that they don't. I've always argued that it's impossible to completely separate internalized misognyny from a female's decision to "transition".

    Women getting their healthy breasts surgically removed and taking testosterone FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF APPEARING MALE, and willingly tossing aside their female identity for the advantages that come along with being male HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH FIGHTING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE. It would more appropriately be called capitulation. It's kind of like black folks putting on white face then saying that they are still in the struggle for civil rights. I was born black, but I'm not black anymore, but I'm still down with the struggle.

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  18. Anon 4:08,
    We're getting "gender neutral" car insurance in Europe - actually they are hiking up prices for young women.
    As for working/living in Germany, I think it might have the best protections for LGBT anywhere in the world. Yes, you should be clear what your sex is, date of birth etc. is on any form of identification, that should not be asking too much. Real life is not an exercise in a Gender Studies classroom, where border police want to chit-chat with you about pronouns or STP devices.
    Germany

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  19. They get to own public spaces and join in on terrorizing and intimidating women, if they so wish. They get to outwardly and openly express and project their internalized hatred onto other females. If they pass well, they can relax from being the recipient of most sexual assaults.

    They have laws on their side to force the public into playing their delusional genderized game. "Yes, you're really a man, a real manly man and not at all the female you were born as. Yes, sir!"

    -Sweet Cherry

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