Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, January 20, 2013

Silence = Subhuman

I read this morning that GenderTrender's Wordpress account has been frozen and her voice (at least there) has been silenced (for now). I immediately thought, virago. Not the patriarchically revisionist virago either, but virago in her true form- "a woman who demonstrates exemplary and heroic qualities." A word I learned in my teen years when I found the word applied to Ann Lee, a name I learned in those same years from the genius misfit ("the misfit is the one who is true and troubled and filled with shinning blood") Patti Smith.

I've been thinking a lot about Ann Lee today, thinking about how for all the HUGE technological advances, relatively little has changed for women. Virago women that is. For those unfamiliar with Ann Lee, Ann is known for her leadership role in the religious group The Shakers. Under Ann's leadership, the Shakers practiced equality between the sexes and celibacy, regardless of marital status. Both were reasons the Shakers were an attractive group, especially for women. Women could escape the sexual demands made/insisted upon from men, as well as have equal footing with males within the Shaker colony. But women leaving husbands to join the Shaker colony didn't fare so well. In 1774 Ann Lee and other group members left England, sailing to America in hopes of religious freedom.

Instead, what they found in the new land were more threatening, viscous and violent attacks from angry husbands. Husbands who viewed Ann as the pinnacle of all their greatest fears, a strong, proud woman who dared to command an authoritative role! Something regarded as unnatural, a word used to inspire fear in any woman who considered joining the Shakers, in efforts to maintain male supremacy. (Can you see a pattern?) Given the virago that was Ann, she ignored threats to her person and continued granting married women equality and a safe refuge within Shaker spaces. In 1784, at the age 48, Ann succumbed to injuries sustained after she had been kidnapped by an angry male mob, tied to the back of a horse and carriage and drug several miles in roads made of ice and cold.

Ann Lee was removed from the human race because she dared to have a voice, in a world where only men have voices. Having a voice relegates one to the Jesus star status of Human. In other words, Ann, like so many women before and after her, was murdered because she demanded to be Human! This is why our collective female voice is so dangerous, because you see, it doesn't really matter even what we say. We saw that last week, whether we say trans proper or improper, the fact that we spoke at all is the REAL problem! Feminists are not trees falling in the forest, which is precisely why Suzanne Moore, Julie Burchill and now GenderTrender were axed. When they opened their mouths, they committed the ultimate patriarchal sin, they gave rise to their female voice and by doing so demanded to be Human!

dirt
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38 comments:

  1. AnonymousX

    THE TRUTH CAN NEVER BE COMPLETELY SILENCED FOREVER. I WILL DEDICATE THE REST OF MY LIFE TO EXPOSING THE LIES PERPETUATED BY THE TRANS COMMUNITY. BELOW ARE A FEW OF MY CONCERNS.

    (1.) PUBERTY SUPPRESSING DRUGS THAT DELIBERATELY HALT NORMAL ADOLESCENT DEVELOPMENT WHICH IS A NORMAL PART OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT. IF CROSS GENDER HORMONES ARE GIVEN RIGHT AFTER PUBERTY SUPPRESSING DRUGS, FERTILITY CAN BE COMPROMISED. THIS IS THE DE-SEXING AND STERILIZATION OF CHILDREN.

    (2.) "T" OR TESTOSTERONE WHICH EVEN 16 AND 17 YEAR OLD GIRLS TALK ABOUT, AND SOME 16 YEAR OLD GIRLS ARE ALREADY TAKING. PCOS (POLYCYSTIC OVARIAN SYNDROME) IS ONLY ONE POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECT. DO PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE BODIES OF BIOLOGICAL FEMALES WERE DESIGNED FOR LONG TERM TESTOSTERONE USE?

    (3.) "TOP SURGERY" WHICH ESSENTIALLY AMOUNTS TO ELECTIVE MASTECTOMIES WITH THE SURGICAL WHITTLING DOWN OF AREOLAS AND NIPPLES. IN MANY CASES, THE NIPPLES AND AREOLAS ARE LITERALLY CUT OFF, RESIZED, THEN SEWN BACK ON. LOSS OF NIPPLE SENSATION IS POSSIBLE, AND EVERY NOW AND THEN THE NIPPLE GRAFT MIGHT NOT TAKE RESULTING IN LOSS OF A NIPPLE OR TWO.

    (4.) THE PRACTICE OF BREAST BINDING, ESPECIALLY ON DEVELOPING ADOELSCENT FEMALE BODIES AND SKELETONS. BREAST BINDING FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME CAN MIS-ALIGN RIBS AND CAUSE OTHER HEALTH PROBLEMS. THE TRANS COMMUNITY IS AWARE OF THIS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE WEBSITES THAT GIVE AWAY FREE BINDERS TO FEMALES UNDER THE AGE OF 21.

    (5.) THE CHEMICAL/SURGICAL STERILIZATION OF GENDER NON-CONFORMING GAY AND LESBIAN CHILDREN.

    (6.) THE MUTILATION OF HEALTHY FEMALE BREASTS AND GENITALS BY SOMETHING CALLED "TRANSITIONING" WHICH, BY THE WAY, THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY HAS ALREADY ADMITTED THAT:

    (a.) CULTURE, PEER PRESSURE MIGHT PLAY A ROLE IN ONE'S DECISION TO "TRANSITION"

    (b.) IT'S POSSIBLE TO REGRET "TRANSITIONING"

    (b.) AS TO FTM, INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY MIGHT PLAY A ROLE IN ONE'S DECISION TO "TRANSITION"

    PERHAPS THE READER SHOULD SEE EXACTLY WHAT "TOP SURGERY" INVOLVES. TO ME, THIS LOOKS LIKE A FORM OF VIOLENCE BEING CARRIED OUT ON THE FEMALE SEX.


    Dr. Daniel Medalie performs FtM top surgery (double incision mastectomy with nipple grafting)



    WARMING GRAPHIC VIDEO!PLEASE TAKE NOTE.IT’S CALLED FTM TOP SURGERY (DOUBLE INCISION MASTECTOMY WITH NIPPLE GRAFTING). THIS IS FTM "TOP SURGERY".

    http://www.surgerytheater.com/video/6423/Dr.%20Daniel%20Medalie%20performs%20FtM%20top%20surgery%20(double%20incision%20mastectomy%20with%20nipple%20grafting

    PLEASE LOOK AT THIS VIDEO AND NOTICE THE PERFECTLY SHAPED MEDIUM SIZED BREASTS ON WHAT APPEARS TO BE A YOUNG FEMALE PERHAPS IN HER TWENTIES.

    I POSE THIS QUESTION TO THE READER. HAS THERE EVER BEEN A TIME IN RECORDED HISTORY IN WHICH THE MUTILATION OF FEMALE BODIES HAS NOT OCCURRED?

    (7.) "BOTTOM SURGERY" OFTEN REQUIRES MULTIPLE SURGERIES AND 6 TO 8 INCHES OF SKIN GRAFTS TAKEN FROM THE ARM OR OTHER PART OF THE BODY. THE EXTENSION OF THE FEMALE URETHRA HAS ITS OWN UNIQUE SET OF CHALLENGES. LOSS OF SENSATION IS A POSSIBILITY PROVIDED THE SKIN GRAFTS TAKE.

    (8.) I'M ESPECIALLY INCENSED THAT A HETEROSEXUAL, 45 YEAR OLD, EX-MILITARY MALE WASN'T ARRESTED FOR EXPOSING HIS PENIS TO A 17 YEAR OLD GIRL. THE ONLY REASON COLLEEN FRANCIS WASN'T ARRESTED FOR PARADING HIS PENIS AROUND THE WOMEN'S LOCKER ROOM WAS BECAUSE THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY WAS SUCCESSFUL IN REPLACING SEX WITH "GENDER IDENTITY".

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  2. AnonymousX continued...

    (9.) ABOUT THE ONLY THING I CAN SAY ABOUT 6' 5" 180 LB. ROBERT (GABBIE) LUDWIG IS THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING WITH COLLEGE AGE WOMEN. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT THE TIME HE PLAYED ON A MEN'S TEAM DOESN'T COUNT TOWARDS THE TOTAL TIME HE IS ELIGBLE TO PLAY. IT'S A TRAVESTY AND A FARCE AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

    (10.) THE THREATS AND THE LEVEL OF UTTER MISOGYNY THAT THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY HAS DELIBERATELY USED TO INTENTIONALLY INTIMIDATE ANY WOMAN WHO DARES TO DISAGREE WITH THEM AMOUNTS TO HATE CRIMES AGAINST THE FEMALE SEX AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. EXAMPLES:


    ".....You are such a weak little old hag of a bitch. Get raped by a bunch of niggers you old crow."

    "You made this story up you fucking ugly OVER-THE-HILL sagging tits, fat ass ugly repulsive CUNT. You're just jealous that you're OLD AS HELL and can NEVER EVER transition successfully the way us young dudes do! We are the men you can never, ever be. Medical science, nanotechnology and genetic engineering is advancing in ways your tiny female, estrogen-dominant gossipy female brain can NEVER imagine. CUNT. And being 25 I will reap the benefits and you will just be a corpse. You're not even masculine, this shit you're doing here is totally female...gossipy manipulative psychological warfare. Why don't you take your fat, over-sized, child-bearing hips sagging cottage cheese ass back in the kitchen and cook your disgusting wrinkled, obese crew-cut trainwreck you call a "girlfriend" another Swanson dinner you useless OLD HAG. KNOW YOUR PLACE and stop treading on us. Stupid useless cunt. No wonder there is so much misogyny...it's because of bitches like you. Suck a fat one and get AIDS".

    SOURCE:

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/12/so-much-fear-and-hatred-from-this-trans.html

    "What I see here are typical asshole feminist bitches who know nothing about FTMs, what they go through mentally, physically and emotionally with their bodies and sense of self. ...ugly ass cow. bitch, bitch....BITCH...fuggly ass dyke. Fuck off you bulldagging bitch."

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2012/08/ftm-where-self-hating-women-and-hatred.html

    “Pimp slap is not enough here: a nice home run swing to the head with a 38-oz Louisville Slugger is more in order. There’s no brains in her head to destroy to start with. It’s personal, and if I ever saw her in my windshield, I’ll be wiping blood off my white Buick. But I won’t be using the brakes.”.

    http://gendertrender.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/monica-violence-1.jpg


    "I hope you die in a fire."


    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2012/05/another-frightening-article-on.html

    (11.) I FORGOT THE "COTTON CEILING" WORKSHOP WHICH EXCLUDED FEMALE ASSIGNED AT BIRTH. THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY KNEW THAT THIS WAS OFFENSIVE, BUT THEY DID IT ANYWAY. LESBIANS MUST LEARN TO LOVE THE LADY STICK (TRANSWOMAN'S PENIS) WHETHER WE WANT IT OR NOT.

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  3. AnonymousX continued...

    (12.) I THINK RICHARD MASBRUCH (SHERRY) IS WORTH NOTING. HE IS THE MAN WHO SADISTICALLY TIED TWO WOMEN UP, AND SHOCKED THEM WITH AN ELECTRICAL CORD BEFORE RAPING THEM. APPARENTLY, HE WANTED TO HEAR THEM SCREAM. HE HAD HIS PENIS WHEN HE DID THIS BARBARIC CRIME. HE WAS SENT TO A WOMEN'S PRISON. MORAL OF THE STORY...TORTURE AND RAPE TWO WOMEN, MUTILATE YOUR OWN PENIS WHILE IN PRISON, START CALLING YOURSELF SHERRY OR SUE AND BE SENT TO A WOMEN'S PRISON. IF HE IS IN A MEN'S PRISON, HE MIGHT BE HURT, AND WE CAN'T HAVE THIS.

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  4. AnonymousX

    We are just getting started debunking trans talking points and assorted propaganda.



    ReplyDelete
  5. This is so funny I almost fell off my chair watching it!

    http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e01-mr-garrisons-fancy-new-vagina

    South Park!

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  6. Censorship is horrible, no matter what form it takes.

    I was disappointed and shocked when I visited Gender Trender today and saw Gallus Mag's comments there, stating that she had been locked out of her own blog. But then I had a disturbing thought... how did she manage to post five comments in a blog that she was locked out of???

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  7. @ Anon January 20, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    Seriously? Allow me to explain then, if you can't get there by yourself...

    She commented, she didn't make a blog post. She did it just like you would, except that her comments aren't pre-modded because her email address is that of the moderator of the blog.

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  8. Well said Dirt and AnonymousX.

    Lady stick meet machete.

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  9. A penis has zero to do with ladies, please use proper words. Unlike other feminist spaces, in this one, words not only matter, they have meaning.

    Also I do not blame trans males or trans females for their condition. The Gender Straight Jacket and the Male Medical Machine are to blame.

    Dismantle the GSJ, and nearly all cases of the trans disorder would disappear.

    dirt

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  10. Again, if you cannot use proper terms, do not comment. If referring to a male who is injecting synthetic female hormones, you would say "trans male".

    dirt











    '

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  11. Comment has been deleted but I'll say again:

    Wordpress has taken action against blogs and websites hosted by them before. See Golden Dawn as an example. This reaction by Wordpress is not new, and they are within their rights to interpret any material hosted by them through their own Terms of Service. I assume it may have been frozen to this part of the ToS:

    the Content is not pornographic, does not contain threats or incite violence, and does not violate the privacy or publicity rights of any third party;

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  12. Wouldn't the simple solution be for Gallus to get her own domain and webhosting? (Which she could then install wordpress on.)

    When one has a controversial opinion, it's better to secure a form of hosting that's not subject to a very restrictive terms of service.

    To all the "transgender" people making stuff like this happen -- you're an embarrassment. Go away.

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  13. I hope people begin to realize that much of the trans 'activist' movement is another version of the conservative right-wing, from their belief in gender-roles to their silencing of all oposing views (which has been very successful due to misguided liberal guilt).

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  14. No Dirt, a male who is injecting female hormones is a trans woman, and if you keep up with this crap, your blog will be the next one we take down. Show some respect for your betters!

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  15. It's a good idea to move the blog to another webhost as suggested above, but it's also possible that whoever from Wordpress locked it because they got a lot of complaint from trans activists saying that they outed people's private identities on that blog (an accusation frequently levelled against GenderTrender and Cathy Brennan, and which many of the activists probably believe, though I've never seen a case). Before I knew of the threatening and abusive behavior a number of trans activists employ, I believed this to be the case. When I actually read the blogs, though, the context made it clear that this wasn't the posting of private information.

    Most of the Internet liberals who accept the brain sex idea of causation and rail against the "behind the times" radfems haven't actually read much of these blogs - once they get to an instance of misgendering, or just get offended by a blunt tone, the "transphobic!" flag comes up, and their mind is made up, even if they continue reading, that what they are reading is baseless, hatemongering, and vile. I know because that was precisely my reaction. So they believe you're targeting random trans people and outing them just so to make a blog post to ridicule them. They don't notice that the ones GenderTrender and such "out" are typically criminals with public records, people who make detailed threats to the blogger, or people insisting that prohibiting their male genitalia in a women's locker room is discrimination on par with Jim Crow.

    Of course, the dedicated trans supporters will have rationalizations for the last, namely that most trans people would conceal their genitalia and refrain from doing violence, ignoring the fact that women in a locker room or bathroom have no way to tell the difference between a genuine trans person and someone faking trans to get in the women-only space to assault or be a voyeur or similar. So, even if hypothetically zero trans people posed a risk to born women, it would serve as no evidence that the male-bodied person in the bathroom with bulges under his blouse as well as his pants is not a male predator.

    If one were to accept the premises that A) Trans males pose no more threat to born women than other born women, B) Brain sex theory is correct and they really are truly women, C) All women deserve access to women's locker rooms and bathrooms and other women-only space D) Based on (B), any male with a female gender identity is truly a woman, then you would still have problems with normalizing male-bodied person's entitlement to women-only space, because to confirm that someone truly has GID (in other words, truly has a female gender identity and isn't faking for sexual thrills/violence), you would need to bring extensive documentation from a psychiatrist just to use the bathroom. That measure would be far more oppressive of trans people than simply requiring them to use a private change room (and I don't advocate it, but it appears to be the logical conclusion of the trans rhetoric, provided you respect the boundaries of women, which is really uncommon in patriarchy, especially among men, obviously).

    You can even have removeable "Women-only" signs for the private change rooms (as well as the male-gendered equivalent) so that you fully acknowledge the validity of their gender identity. That would be bending over backwards to cater to their belief in intrinsic gender, but it would still be preferable to having no authority to kick out a male from a women's room just because they claim to be a woman inside. They rationalize that since you have to go through a lot of hoops for an official GID diagnosis it would be impossible to fake, ignoring that the women in the room have no way of knowing if that stranger has a diagnosis of GID, particularly when claiming that males with penis intact should be able to access women-only space if they are "legitimately trans".

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  16. I got a bit sidetracked – my main point is that even if Wordpress people initially did this because of a misunderstanding like this, they would likely not act to rectify it, as they fear bad press. Perhaps we ought to put the bad press on their decision to cave to the pressure of thought-terminating distortions employed in the service of silencing feminists (ugh, excessive alliteration). If there is more pressure not to censor than there is pressure not to criticize trans ideology, they will rectify this (or if not that, they would be more reluctant to pull a stunt like this in the future, at least with regard to this specific issue of trans-critical feminism).

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  17. I forgot to add (12:50-12:54), I love that South Park episode. I was thinking four months ago, just how well done the satire was. I felt so sorry for Kyle after the basketball tryouts. You don't have to be tall and black to be good at basketball, and you don't have to be a man to hate celebrity gossip or a woman to be sensitive and in touch with your emotions.

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  18. @ Dirt

    Nope. Tans male is female bodied person who injects testosterone.

    And stop deleting comments that you don't like, Dirt, if you want to complain about censorship elsewhere, stop censoring replies here that don't conform to your narrow and bigoted view of trans people. It makes you both a hypocrite and a coward.

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  19. @ 11.40 AM:

    (Because the last time, this comment was deleted, I'll say it again),

    So, it's okay to threaten horrible violence again a transwoman's body, is it?

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  20. "T(r)ans male is female bodied person who injects testosterone."
    This only makes sense if you believe in the Trans mythology that being a man or a woman depends on what a person wears, what a person injects, or how a person 'sees' him/herself. I call total BS on the whole thing. (and I also disapprove of threatening to cut 'womens'' (ha!) penises off)

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  21. The definition of trans male is the one trans people use, andwhich is the correct term.

    Glad you at least don't advocate violence towards trans people, though. That's something.

    For the record, I don't approve of calls for violence from the trans side either, though I can understand the anger that provokes those calls. Trans people have the right to exist without being called freaks, perverts, deluded girls (or boys), rapists, and other slurs like shemale and tranny, and to be recognised as the gender they identify as. Yet people like Dirt and so many haters won't leave them alone, despite their relative scarcity in any community.

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  22. But thinking and stating that somebody is their actual sex (no matter their surgery, hairstyle, or internal gender-ideas) is NOT a hate crime. A man left a comment on GenderTrender that 'misgendering' him is akin to RAPE. Is this Trans Logic?

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  23. @e

    There are a lot of butch lesbians here, some of which are commonly mistaken for men. If I believe one of these women to be a man, and I say that they are a man, and refer to them as a man, contrary to any correction I am given, because I BELIEVE them to be a man, am I not being equally as offensive?

    No, it is not akin to rape, nor a hate crime. (lol, I can't believe people would think, let alone say such an absurdity) At best it's a bit rude, especially since it's impossible to verify anyone's given sex through normal social interaction. Sure there are some cases of deluded transgender people who are never even going to approximate the opposite sex -- but those are clearly the minority.

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  24. I am occasionally mistaken for a man (a boy really)- it means NOTHING to me, I am not offended because my identity does not hinge on what other people think of my appearance or 'gender.' And, no, it is not the minority of transsexuals who don't 'pass-' people are just being polite most of the time when humoring the gender-believers. Besides, when people think I'm male they are only judging by the most surface of indicators, the things that seem to mean the most to the 'skin deep' and what I consider regressive trans movement (which is of course in step with many problems of today's drugged, body-image-focused society).

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  25. I'm not concerned much with whether or not people are offended/upset by other people's interpretation of their sex. If that's the thing that's going to unhinge your day, you have bigger fish that need frying.

    What I'm saying is that if I insist you are a man regardless of whether or not you are, is that not rude? It means I've made an assumption about you (that you're male) and you can't tell me otherwise, even though for the sake of argument, we know you're female. In the course of the day, if I miss'd a sir or sir'd a miss and was corrected, I would go with the correction, Whether or not the person is/is thought to be transgender. It doesn't mean anything to me either way.

    It just seems bizarrely point proving to act as if you are the be-all-and-end-all judge of who is what sex. Seems as if you'd be wrong more than you'd be right, which would just make you seem like a jerk. Unless I'm missing something of course, and all the transgender people you've met have some sort of secret "tell" that only you can see..

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  26. I don't think I'm the judge of what a person's sex is. I just know I'm a woman not because of what I wear, not because of how I think or how I am treated, but because I am physically genetically biologically female. I apply the same standard to everybody (and yes I realize there is a tiny number of 'intersexed'). I should add that I sort of think it's fun/funny to be 'misgendered,' because I'm glad to not fit into the standard mold. (and I am good at telling people's true sex; I've watched many attempts at 'transition' in both directions and know what it looks/behaves like)

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  27. (in nyc all the young f2t baristas (there are lots of them) seem to LOVE 'ma'aming' the females and 'dude-bro'ing' the males) ok, I'm done here!

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  28. I can always tell who the Lizard People from outer space are. I'm like, a professional lizard detector. Somebody should pay me.

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  29. @ 1:45 PM

    I've watched many attempts at 'transition' in both directions and know what it looks/behaves like

    No, you don't. The vast majority of fully-transitioned people, particularly ftms, look exactly like ordinary everyday human beings of the gender they present. Or are you in the habit of pulling down people's underwear to ascertain their 'real' gender?

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  30. First, me nor my work is going anywhere and not even death will silence either of us.

    Second, when I have time to read through comments I remove ignorance when I come across it.

    Third, I've NEVER threatened anyone, here or anywhere.

    Forth, unless you are interested and invested in dismantling the Gender Straight Jacket and the misogyny sewn into its very fabric, this feminist lesbian space is not for you.

    dirt

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  31. "No, you don't. The vast majority of fully-transitioned people, particularly ftms, look exactly like ordinary everyday human beings of the gender they present."


    As to FTMs, is this with the shirts on or off? The scars from double incision mastectomy can often still be seen. Sometimes they fade, but some are more pronouned than others.

    I noticed that they last two words in this post were "gender they present." Present is not the same as authenticity. The only reason they "present" is through an external source of cross gender hormones. If one who "presents" is FTM, they underwent mastectomies on both their healthy breasts, and most likely had their nipples and areolas cut off, resized, then sewn back on. Of course, all this "presenting" cost money which they eagerly hand over to the plastic surgeon or doctor. If they want to stay buff and masculine, they do this for the rest of their lives.



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  32. @ 1:26 AM

    If one who "presents" is FTM, they underwent mastectomies on both their healthy breasts, and most likely had their nipples and areolas cut off, resized, then sewn back on. Of course, all this "presenting" cost money which they eagerly hand over to the plastic surgeon or doctor. If they want to stay buff and masculine, they do this for the rest of their lives.

    Your biases are showing all too clearly Stop using emotive words like 'healthy breasts'. The health or otherwise or the best tissue of trans men is irrelevant. And not all trans men have top surgery anyway. Of those that do, most aren't bothered by scares that will eventually fade away or become pretty unnoticeable once they are older (some will be lost under chest hair anyway, and not all men like to take their shirts of (my brother never does). Some never have scars in the first place, if they don't have double-incision.

    Many trans men don't care about looking 'buff'. Trans men come in all shapes and sizes, just like non-trans men.

    T can be expensive, as is surgery. But so are fast cars, fancy holidays, big houses and luxury goods. Non-trans people sometimes have to have expensive surgery to correct problems with their bodies, or take medication all their lives, which may cost them money. What was your point again?

    Oh yes, you don't actually have one. You just keep repeating the same tired refrain.

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  33. Dirt, stop drinking.

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  34. Anonymous said...
    @ 1:45 PM

    I've watched many attempts at 'transition' in both directions and know what it looks/behaves like

    No, you don't. The vast majority of fully-transitioned people, particularly ftms, look exactly like ordinary everyday human beings of the gender they present. Or are you in the habit of pulling down people's underwear to ascertain their 'real' gender?



    Actually, it's mostly in the unchanging eyes and the body shape. Women and men have differently shaped skulls/skeletons. All the facial hair or silicone implants in the world don't disguise the truth. (but trans is all about delusional thinking)

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  35. Stop using emotive words like 'healthy breasts'. The health or otherwise or the best tissue of trans men is irrelevant

    The health or otherwise of the breast tissue of trans men is irrelevant.

    The health or otherwise of breast tissue of humans born biological female is irrelevant.

    Yes, we do know, but perhaps this is the problem. Why are female bodies irrelevant? How did we get to this point in time in which we can so cavalierly cut up female bodies as if they really are irrelevant? I know it's been going on for at least a thousand years, but it never ceases to amaze me. I know people get sick and tired of me saying this, but it's not like we don't have centuries of history to prove it.

    By healthy, I mean free from trauma, cancer, or another disease that could damage the breasts. This is the general definition of healthy. I suggest an experiment. Why not take the discarded breast tissue from "top surgery" (double incision mastectomy with nipple graft) and look at it under a microscope. See if it is in anyway different than healthy breast tissue from a woman who doesn't identity as transgender. Is there any difference? In mastectomies because of malignancy, cancerous cells can be diagnosed in a laboratory, and we have clear and precise science. We can see it, pick it up, and measure it. What kind of quantifiable tests do we have for "gender dysphoria" which is all in the mind? Unlike cancer cells which can be seen in a microscope, "gender identity" is much more subjective and open for interpretation. I know that medication is given for things like depression, but there is a great deal of research that neurotransmitters are involved. Also, it's not necessary to cut off a healthy part of the anatomy to treat mental illnesses like depression. Common sense tells us that gender identity is very much intertwined with culture, and I argue that it might be impossible to clearly distinguish between "gender dysphoria", or gender identity disorder and one's culture. Trans identified people don't live on an isolated island.

    I know that women have been getting cosmetic surgery procedures on their breasts for decades, so plastic surgery to enhance or change part of their physical appearance is nothing new. However, I'm not aware of anything that so drastically changes female breasts than "top surgery". Think about all the surgical procedures on female breasts. If we rule out surgery because of trauma or disease, which procedure changes female breasts the most? With "top surgery" (double incision with nipple grafting), we venture into new territory in that the explicit goal is to erase all vestiges of female form or appearance.

    After surgery, patients are sometimes left with two medical drains tubing that lines the length of the incisions, under the skin, that exit through a small incision under each arm, with a resevoir bulb attached at the ends to collect excess blood and lymphatic fluid. Drains are left in for about a week.

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  36. Some never have scars in the first place, if they don't have double-incision.

    For some reason, they rarely admit that there can be a loss of sensation to the nipples, and it's possible that a nipple graft will fail. Although rare, it has happened. Even with the keyhole procedure, nipples might be surgically resized some if they look larger than what a typical male would have on his chest.

    It's my understand that the size of the breasts and elasticity of the skin essentially dictates what procedure will be used. How many women have tiny A size cups? If a woman has very small breasts, why would she even want "top surgery" in the first place? Double incision mastectomy is used on women with medium to large size breasts. By the way, it's called a mastectomy as in removal of mammary glands.

    T can be expensive, as is surgery. But so are fast cars, fancy holidays, big houses and luxury goods. Non-trans people sometimes have to have expensive surgery to correct problems with their bodies, or take medication all their lives, which may cost them money. What was your point again?

    Is this person implying that "T" (testosterone for biological females) "top surgery" (double incision mastectomies with nipple grafting) are just part of the commerical quest to make people happy in a totally consumer driven society akin to buying that new car or house? This is what they say, so I have to take them at their word. "T can be expensive, as is surgery. But so are fast cars, fancy holidays, big houses and luxury goods. Non-trans people sometimes have to have expensive surgery to correct problems with their bodies, or take medication all their lives, which may cost them money. What was your point again." I think getting your boobs completely lopped off is a little different than buying a fancy fast car or other luxury goods.

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  37. @ 6:59 PM

    What in the hell are you on about? The health or otherwise of the breast tissue of trans men is indeed irrelevant to the fact that they wish the tissue to be removed, because they are not women, and do not wish to have breasts.

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  38. @ 7:01 PM

    What did I mean? Please, use your brain. You, or another anon, implied that there was something bad or wrong in having to pay for T or for top surgery, as if it wasn't pretty much like any other medication or surgical procedure. People have to pay for many things that they want or need. So they save up, or do without other luxuries. Why do you find this so extraordinary?

    Do you question the rights of diabetics, who have to inject daily medication if they wish to keep living?

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