Change Your World-NOT your Body

Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Pronouns-The Facts Ma'am Just the Facts

Far too often I hear and I'm sure you have to that those labeling themselves "trans" go from zero to sixty on the angry scale whenever they are, to use their term "misgendered". By this they mean that the pronouns being applied to them are wrong. Fortunately for you, you have an expert like myself to straighten out these simplistic issues twisted by the trans community into some strange grammerfied Gordian Knot.

Per the trans community, gender is what is between your ears and sex is what is between your legs. I wont delve into the codswallop of this buncombe, and will address the correct pronoun issue according to their trans-logic.

I will deal where the trouble lies by dealing specifically with the he/him-she/her pronouns as they seem to pose the greatest trouble to this already troubled community. 

Word Web (seen here) and other online dictionaries have similar definitions of the offending pronouns, all specifying the association with either the male sex or the female sex. None mention gender. Remembering per the trans community that sex is what's between your legs, the correct use of the pronouns he/him-she/her should rightly be applied to the biology of the trans person NOT the gender of the trans person. So unless dictionaries everywhere change the very definition of sexed pronouns to gendered pronouns, you now have the skinny on proper pronoun use for any trans person in question.

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47 comments:

  1. She - a female, or something regarded as female.

    In other words, a trans-woman.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The words male and female can be used to refer to gender too.

    Dictionaries don't change the meanings of words. The meanings of words change, and then dictionaries are updated. Dictionaries are usually years, if not decades, behind socially accepted standards for language.

    Do you think we started referring to homosexuals as gay because Webster updated it's dictionary to that meaning first?

    Basically, this post is even dumber than the last.

    ReplyDelete
  3. One of the problems with the "gender is what is between your ears and sex is what is between your legs" idea is that the new generation of trans folks don't believe that.

    Sex is a social construct, just as much as gender is.

    What would be awesome is if all the people who subscribe to outdated, bigoted forms of feminism would just go argue with the transsexuals who believe in the outdated, constricting gender binary and left the rest of us the fuck alone.

    You all can argue with each other all you want. Your arguments don't apply to me.

    ReplyDelete
  4. If nothing else, at least this generation knows what "pronoun" means. There are good reasons why trans people mostly end up paired with eachother.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  5. What? What does that even mean? We don't know what "pronoun" means? Wow, that was a sick burn, Germany.

    You can keep the meaning of "pronoun" to yourself. At least we know what tolerance and understanding mean.

    Is it supposed to be an insult that trans people end up paired together? You mean people with shared experiences find reasons to hook up? Fucking mind blowing. Holy shit. Are we supposed to seek out people who don't understand us and act like assholes? Is the problem that we can't score dates with you and dirt?

    Oh, I get it. If we're not hooking up with the people who hate us, clearly that's evidence that there's something wrong with us.

    Even if it is true that most trans people pair up with each other, there wouldn't be anything wrong with that.

    ReplyDelete
  6. You are no expert by any means toots!!!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous @ 9:51

    If nothing else, at least this generation knows what "pronoun" means.

    Germany's trying to say that this generation of transtrenders is quite idiotic in many ways of their thinking but at least they know to spout the definition of pronoun.

    They are also right in saying that trans people tend to only stay in relationships with themselves and its not because they choose to be with people with similar experiences but its because not many people aware of the idiocy of transitioning would dare date someone with screwed up views of gender. Who would want to live with someone like that forever??

    ~M

    ReplyDelete
  8. "What would be awesome is if all the people who subscribe to outdated, bigoted forms of feminism would just go argue with the transsexuals who believe in the outdated, constricting gender binary and left the rest of us the fuck alone."

    My sentiments exactly. I like your style, pal.

    ReplyDelete
  9. It's bullshit to say that trans people only hook up with other trans people.

    I started to put together a list of links to studies and personal testimonials about non-trans people in committed, long-term relationships with trans people. But then I realized, none of the trans-deniers here are going to care. No matter how much evidence is presented to you, you will never stop hating and discriminating against trans people.

    So fuck it. For those of you who aren't evil-minded assholes, just be aware that a lot of people love trans folks. Transgendered people find love from other trans people, from non-trans people, from straight and gay and lesbian people. There are a lot more people in the world who love than there are who hate, and you will find them though it will seem hard.

    The voices of the haters are loud, but they are not stronger if we don't let them be.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "Sex is a social construct, just as much as gender is."

    If (XY) and (XX) didn't exist, where would Homo sapiens be? Contrary to the myth or children's fairy tale, the stork doesn't drop us off at the front door.

    Sex is a biological reality, and gender is socially constructed. Anything that is socially constructed is open for interpretation, and we only revert back to a system that says I believe such and such, and the other person believes the opposite. In reality, we have conflicted viewpoints or realities in which reality is in the eye of the beholder.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "The words male and female can be used to refer to gender too."

    I suppose this could be true. However, because it's socially constructed, we could have conflicting definitions. For example, I say that MTF (male to female) transsexuals such as Robert Ludwig aren't female. Another person says they are. Who is right?


    The way biologists use male and female is different than the way gender queer folks use the terms.

    Before transgender politics, the vast majority of people believed that a person born as a male was male. Despite what the trans community believes, most people still think this way. Not everyone lives in a transgender fantasy world. Most people simply go about their daily business, and don't use words such as "cis gendered", or "cis".

    AS A FEMALE, I REFUSE TO HAND OVER THE TERM "WOMAN" OR "FEMALE" TO MALE TO FEMALE TRANSSEXUALS. I WAS BORN FEMALE AND I HAVE A UTERUS AND OVARIES.

    Some MTFs look so ridiculous as women that it's rather sad. FOR EXAMPLE, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ROBERT LUDWIG IS FEMALE. LOOK AT THE PHOTOS. IS THIS A FEMALE? MOST PEOPLE AREN'T BUYING THIS FANTASY EITHER.

    I don't mean to disrespect Mr. Ludwig, but most people don't see him as female. I'm sorry, but it's true. Read the other mainstream online blogs. Even at the Huffington post, people aren't embracing the idea.



    ReplyDelete
  12. "She - a female, or something regarded as female.

    In other words, a trans-woman."

    No, I say the following:

    "She - a female...

    In other words, a woman."

    Omit the "trans".

    By the way, what does "or something regarded as female" mean? This sounds rather strange to me.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "Sex is a social construct, just as much as gender is."

    The human species reproduces sexually just like all other primates and virtually all mammals. In vitro fertilization is just another form of sexual reproduction.

    Or, perhaps we were all found in a cabbage patch somewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  14. On Robert (Gabbi) Ludwig:

    In this article, sometimes they use the pronoun "he" and sometimes the pronoun she". It's also interesting that apparently Mr. Ludwig is both mother and father to the children. Yes, I know that this is scientifically impossible, but we won't bother with the small details.

    "one 19-year-old daughter who insists on calling her dad, two girls who insist on calling her Momma Gabbi."

    http://www.news10.net/sports/article/219854/3/PHOTOS-66-transsexual-basketball-player-makes-college-debut

    Question: If he is "momma", did he give birth to his offspring through his penis? I imagine that would REALLY hurt!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Trans folks talking about feminism and other subjects....it doesn't have to make sense....just go along with it.

    “cis gendered.... patriarchy/matriarchy how do we make this into a word. the cisarchy?

    ~ Indi RiotGrl Edwards, M2T who really should just shorten that nym to IdiotGrl and be done with it


    “I understand that while the fiction of a trans man deciding that being male is less othering than being a lesbian exists, it exists mainly for trans women, not men.”

    ~valerie keefe, a straight male who still believes his delusions of being a lesbian, even though that’s so 1982 ago

    “Feminism is about empowering all women, even those who may still have their penises intact.”

    ~ Jordan Gwendolyn Davis, M2TransMisogynist

    “the very idea that I propose challenges the idea that feminism is even about women.”

    ~ Antonia D’orsay, M2T (Misogynist to Transmisogynist) and self-described sociopath


    “I’m in favor of “The Cisbian Myth.” It pretty aptly states what’s wrong with this whole idea – the idea that only cissexuals are lesbians and that lesbians are only attracted to cissexuals.”

    ~ A Widdershins Girl, M2T and Translinguist (every cult needs their language police)

    “when you say things like ‘this harms women’ or ‘this is bad for women’ or post anything with a picture of a uterus or a vuvla [sic] cupcake or whatever and talk about women women women, you’re being a cissexist asshole.”

    ~ Cydne, Gender Delusionist at inflateablefilth


    http://mansplaintransplain.wordpress.com/

    Dirt, we don't need no stinking pronouns...we need descriptive words like the cisarchy.

    “the very idea that I propose challenges the idea that feminism is even about women.”

    Yes, they said it, and we had better believe it.

    ReplyDelete
  16. "What would be awesome is if all the people who subscribe to outdated, bigoted forms of feminism would just go argue with the transsexuals who believe in the outdated, constricting gender binary and left the rest of us the fuck alone."

    “the very idea that I propose challenges the idea that feminism is even about women.”

    ~ Antonia D’orsay, M2T (Misogynist to Transmisogynist) and self-described sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  17. " Contrary to the myth or children's fairy tale, the stork doesn't drop us off at the front door. "

    Yeah, nobody's saying that. Stop saying stupid shit.

    "I say that MTF (male to female) transsexuals such as Robert Ludwig aren't female. Another person says they are. Who is right? "

    The person who says she's female are right. You're welcome.

    Before gay rights, the vast majority of people believe that homosexuality was wrong. Not everybody lived in the gay fantasy world. Most straight people went about their daily business and didn't use words such as "lesbian."

    Holy shit, stuff changes!


    "AS A FEMALE, I REFUSE TO HAND OVER THE TERM "WOMAN" OR "FEMALE" TO MALE TO FEMALE TRANSSEXUALS. I WAS BORN FEMALE AND I HAVE A UTERUS AND OVARIES. "

    Yes, well, you're a terrible person.

    "Some MTFs look so ridiculous as women that it's rather sad."

    Oh man, telling people they look stupid. Great job at being a feminist. You're totally stellar at this.

    "I don't mean to disrespect Mr. Ludwig,"

    Yes you do.

    "Read the other mainstream online blogs."

    YOu mean mainstream media isn't accepting of minorities? Holy shit! Somebody fucking tell the liberal media about this!

    ReplyDelete
  18. "Question: If he is "momma", did he give birth to his offspring through his penis? I imagine that would REALLY hurt!

    Since my step-mother didn't give birth to me, does that mean I can't call her mom anymore? Thanks for clearing this up, super tolerant feminists.

    ReplyDelete
  19. @ 10:37 PM

    Thank god nobody ever makes up new words to describe things. Otherwise, we'd have some shorter, easier way to say "people who are attracted to the same gender" or something.

    ReplyDelete
  20. OK, listen up you super smart people. The word "sex" doesn't just refer to the act where an XY animal ejaculates sperm into an XX person and a baby comes out.

    When someone is talking about sex as in male vs female, they are not necessarily talking about where babies come from.

    Let me know if you need me to explain how sex can also be used to describe activities that have nothing to do with making babies. I don't want to blow your minds if you're not ready for it.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Ladies. Ladies. I just had the best idea.

    You know what we should do? We should go find a group of people who have really hard lives and are more likely to commit suicide than the average population, and then we should talk about how ridiculous they look, and how everything they say sounds stupid, and totally make fun of their attempts to find understanding from people.

    That is the best fucking idea ever. I mean, who doesn't want to drive someone to suicide?

    ReplyDelete
  22. I have more of a problem with enablers who go along with the charade.

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ 2:44 PM

    Yeah, you're right. It's like all those enablers who go along with making gay marriage legal. Fucking enablers. Having respect for equal rights. What assholes.

    ReplyDelete
  24. "Some MTFs look so ridiculous as women that it's rather sad."

    Before he transitioned, Robert Ludwig might have been an attractive and handsome male. However, he doesn't look female to me. I can say with all certainty that I’m not the only person who believes this.

    http://www.news10.net/sports/article/219854/3/PHOTOS-66-transsexual-basketball-player-makes-college-debut

    Look at the 18 photographs (scroll on down) and look at each and every photograph. To me, Robert Ludwig doesn't look like a woman. I'm NOT the only person to make this observation. I know that a person's physical appearance really doesn't matter, but why are we supposed to ignore the obvious when it's staring us in the face?

    “I'm sorry but if you are born a male or female an operation and hormone therapy will not change that fact. If you choose to be transgender that is your choice and i dont see an issue but do not try to convince me that you are now officially a woman because you think you are and modern medicine made it a reality.”

    “But at 6'8" tall and a former MAN, has the physical advantage over her youth competitors. “
    “it seems to me that this person would have an unfair advantage due to birth gender...”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/gabrielle-ludwig-transgender-basketball-player-debut_n_2250548.html

    “Personally, I don’t believe it’s fair that a transgender person who used to be a male play against women. Obviously the transgender male (turned female) has the physical ability to do much better than a normal female. I suppose in their minds they think it’s okay, but not in my book. The Olympics had an ‘allegedly’ female from Africa running against regular women, but the physique alone screams ‘male’. Even the way she runs and carries herself is indicative of a male physique. I just don’t get how transgenders who compete against the gender they have chosen to become can justify their actions

    A little unfair of him to go play basketball against girls. He grew into the 6 x 6′ monster that he is (speaking of his height only) & now to use that advantage against mostly smaller opponents seems to be the actions of a bully in my humble opinion.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/california-transgender-woman-plays-college-basketball/

    ReplyDelete
  25. Middle aged white male feels sooo oppressed...the needs of girls and women don't matter.

    We are all supposed to feel sorry for 6'6" 220 lb. Robert Ludwig because this fifty year old man who transitioned only three years now claims that he is a woman. He is taking up a spot on a women's basketball team that could be held by a female student. He towers over the female students. It’s doesn’t matter because his wishes count. By the way, I read that the time that he spent playing as a male basketball player doesn’t count towards the total time that he is eligible to play.

    Middle aged white male feels sooo oppressed….the needs of girls and women aren’t very important.

    Colleen Francis is discriminated against because he can’t walk around with his penis exposed in a women’s locker room. Yes, he really believes this. Do people really believe that Colleen Francis is a poor victim, or are the girls and women the real victims in this sad charade?

    ReplyDelete
  26. @ 4:19 PM

    You're right, she doesn't conform to traditional ideals of feminine beauty. Clearly, she deserves as much ridicule as you can pile on her.

    It's a good thing there are people here to explain to me that if someone doesn't look pretty enough, then we should be jerks to them.

    ReplyDelete
  27. @ 4:28 PM

    Is your plan to keep calling trans people sad so that more of them will commit suicide, and then your existence won't be inconvenienced by them anymore?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Since the subject at hand is pronouns, these are some of my thoughts.

    Question: Why are women the only historically oppressed group of people who aren’t granted the right to define themselves? This simply wouldn’t be tolerated by any other culturally oppressed class of people, or any ethnic group that I’m aware of.

    Why do men get to define who is and isn’t a woman? People who are born female aren't given that honor. I argue that nearly complete cultural appropriation is the most pernicious and destructive form of oppression. Robert Ludwig who spent forty years of his life as a man now says that he is a woman. Unlike the college age female students that this middle aged man plays basketball with, he didn't see, feel, or experience the subtle and not so subtle forms of sex based discrimination that these girls were privy to from birth. Does Robert Ludwig really understand how these young women feel and what goes on in the minds of young women? I say that it’s impossible to surgically construct a woman from a biological male. Why is Robert Ludwig right and I’m wrong? Could Robert Ludwig’s assertion be right because men are allowed to define nearly everything that surrounds us and everything that we interact with? This is so ingrained in every aspect of our lives that it's taken for granted. Or, in essence, it's so common as to be nearly invisible. It's there, but we don't see it because it encompasses everything we say or do. To have the audacity to define one’s self must be an empowering experience. Most ethnic minorities get to decide who is and isn't part of their particular group. However, females are denied this opportunity.

    For example, what would people think if a white, blue-eyed, Christian, non-native person decided to put on a feathered headdress, paint his or her face brown, and proclaim that he or she is Native American or First Nation? People would probably be stunned, and Native Americans would be outraged.

    What would people think if a white person applied stereotypical black face to their white features, and stated they are African American because they always felt that they were born into the wrong race? Yes, I know that I don’t have any African American ancestors in my family tree, but I’m black. I really was born in the wrong body, and I always felt as if I were black inside. Such black face and delusional thinking would be offensive to black people.

    Below is a link to a cartoon that is the perfect example of what I'm trying to argue.

    http://rancom.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/transgression/

    Robert Ludwig might be a fine person, but I do not believe this person who spent forty years of his life living as a male is now suddenly female. Why is Robert Ludwig right and I'm wrong? I was born female, and apparently my thoughts don't matter.


    ReplyDelete
  29. "Before gay rights, the vast majority of people believe that homosexuality was wrong. Not everybody lived in the gay fantasy world. Most straight people went about their daily business and didn't use words such as "lesbian."

    Why did this person bring up the subject of being gay as in homosexuality? Has Robert Ludwig who is twice divorced with three children ever identified as gay? I thought that gay meant a male who is sexually attracted to other men.

    "When Ludwig moved to Long Island at age 9, the struggle became more pronounced; his body was a mismatch with his spirit. Children picked on him daily, Ludwig said, and he felt intense personal angst. Ludwig said he wondered if he was gay, but he also wondered: How could he be gay if he didn't find men attractive? "

    "Ludwig grew to 6-8 by his sophomore year of high school. And by the time Ludwig entered Nassau Community College in the fall of 1980, he was a high-flying teenager who could throw down all sorts of dunks. Ludwig also discovered another allure -- women -- and knew he had a strong attraction to them."

    "As he lurked on the margins of global conflict, the one inside raged stronger. While stationed in Alameda, he felt most at ease wearing a wig over his short military haircut, lipstick and eyeliner and a sophisticated dress while hanging out at nightclubs with heterosexual Navy friends in San Francisco.

    The twice divorced father is an 8 year Navy and Desert Storm veteran now working as a Genetic Systems Engineer at Roche Molecular Diagnostics in Silicone Valley. Robert takes 12 credits of online community college coursework in order to qualify for the team."

    http://www.news10.net/sports/article/219854/3/PHOTOS-66-transsexual-basketball-player-makes-college-debut

    ReplyDelete
  30. "I say that MTF (male to female) transsexuals such as Robert Ludwig aren't female. Another person says they are. Who is right? "

    Answer:

    "The person who says she's female are right. You're welcome."

    "The person (born biological male) who says she's female are right. You're welcome."

    In other words, humans born biological male get to define who is and isn't a female. Humans born biological female have to accept it.

    No, we don't! We have just been brainwashed into accepting it.



    ReplyDelete
  31. @ 9:08 PM

    No.

    No, no one is saying that.

    A trans individual gets to define their own gender.

    No one else gets to define other people's genders.

    It's the patriarchy who wants to define gender for other people.

    You want to define gender for other people.

    Trans people only want to define themselves.

    When you, and I mean you as in the trans-denier, tell someone else what gender they are, then you are the one who is deciding to define male and female for other people. You are the one trying to force other people to accept your definition of gender.

    No man is trying to define your gender. You are trying to define the genders of other people, both men and women.

    So stop it. Stop imposing your values and your definitions on other people.

    ReplyDelete
  32. "A trans individual gets to define their own gender."

    Well, maybe in a perfect world, but we don’t live in a perfect world, or glamorized trans fantasy land….

    First of all, transgender is just a socially constructed term or word just like gender is. It’s not some kind of sacred human rights text or Holy Grail handed down from an omnipotent supreme being. Second, as we are seeing, in the real world, this is turning into an Orwellian nightmare for girls and women who appear to end up being the innocent victims in these grand gender experiments.

    People can define themselves however they choose, but it doesn’t mean that neither I nor anyone else has to accept it. Apparently, some believe that the right to define one’s gender supersedes all other concerns or interests. I don't believe that Robert Ludwig is a woman. He gets to define himself as a female even though he was born a male and lived at least forty years of his life as a male. Colleen Francis gets to define himself as a woman. Because he defines himself as a woman, he thinks that he has the right to walk around nude (he still has his penis) in women’s locker rooms.

    This would make sense if:

    (1.) Males and females are exactly alike as far as anatomy, biology, and physiology are concerned. We know this isn’t true, but we are supposed to pretend there are no differences.

    Middle aged males are exactly like females and have no size or strength differences whatsoever. Ignore the obvious, and let Robert Ludwig play basketball with college age women even though he towers over them, and has the bulk and size of a male.
    (2.) Both sexes are completely equal as far as access to economic power and authority, employment, housing, health care, etc.
    (3.) Trans individuals themselves are not influenced by cultural forces just like other people.
    No, why should trans individuals always be allowed to define their own gender if it conflicts with the needs and interests of girls and women?

    I argue that trans is just a socially constructed term to begin with. I still refuse to hand over the title or word of woman to males because I fail to see how it benefits women. I don’t believe that it’s possible to surgically create a female from a biological male’s body. If it’s possible to surgically create a female where none existed, then why can’t we just create females in a laboratory?

    ReplyDelete
  33. "No one else gets to define other people's genders."

    Not exactly...

    There are 163 million reasons why this is wrong. This is the approximate number of females lost through sex selective abortions. Sex is not the same thing as gender, but transgender often say it is. Sometimes sex and gender are of great social significance. At any rate, these are 163 million missing females who, by the way, will never get to decide what their gender is. I know that trans indentified people are really into letting people decide their gender.

    In Iran, there are credible sources that say that some gay men are coerced into sex reassignment surgery.

    "It's the patriarchy who wants to define gender for other people."

    Absolutely, but I fail to see how transgender fundamentally challenges this. All it does is exchange one set of stereotypical sex roles for another. Without "gender", transgender would fail to exist.

    ReplyDelete
  34. "So stop it. Stop imposing your values and your definitions on other people."

    Yes, please stop imposing your values and your definitions on other people.

    They really don't believe that there is something called the female sex. The female sex doesn't exist, or it's open for interpretation by males because females aren't allowed to define themselves. If females do exist, then they can be created surgically and/or chemically. In essence, female is a male creation. FTMs don't fundamentally challenge this assumption at all. Transmen simply jump over the fence so to speak to grab a slice of male privilege. They surgically/chemically erase the female form from their own bodies to become men.

    ReplyDelete
  35. The immediate problem here is that you can't always tell what an individual's genitals or chromosome are, based only on every day interactions.

    That's where Dirt's post falls to pieces. A petite and pretty trans woman or a stocky, bearded trans guy can't be pegged as their biological sex without taking their pants off and inspecting their sex organs or taking a tissue sample and karyotyping them.

    If you can't tell someone is trans, you're going to use the 'wrong' pronoun.
    Which is happening more and more as trans people transition younger and younger.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I'm not a "stocky, bearded trans guy" and have "passed" for male for over 40 years. Not too difficult to correct people and thereby challenge their narrow notions of patriarchy's "woman".

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  37. Dirt, by "pass" as male I assume that you meant to say "am mistaken" as male. Wouldn't saying "pass" indicate that you're making the effort to appear male when you, quite rightly, claim you are not. Or are you trying to claim that you are more "male" than transmen?

    ReplyDelete
  38. "No one else gets to define other people's genders."

    Or, I am because I say I am, and that is all that matters.

    QUESTION: IF PEOPLE GET TO DECIDE THEIR GENDER, WHY CAN'T PEOPLE DECIDE THEIR RACE OR ETHNIC GROUP?

    If there is nothing unique about being Black or Asian, and if anyone can say that he or she is Asian or Black, doesn't this essentially throw these identities out the widow? For some reason, this doesn't apply to the female sex in that the very identity of female is in question, or up for interpretation. The identity of female doesn't exist because any person can be female even humans born XY with a penis and male reproductive system. Female is all in the mind. A male gets to decide that he is a female, but when a white person paints on stereotypical black face it's considered offensive.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "The immediate problem here is that you can't always tell what an individual's genitals or chromosome are, based only on every day interactions.

    That's where Dirt's post falls to pieces. A petite and pretty trans woman or a stocky, bearded trans guy can't be pegged as their biological sex without taking their pants off and inspecting their sex organs or taking a tissue sample and karyotyping them.

    If you can't tell someone is trans, you're going to use the 'wrong' pronoun.
    Which is happening more and more as trans people transition younger and younger."

    This person does seem to have a point, but this is far more complicated than people would have us believe. As to karyotyping, most labs can do karyotyping which is not that difficult to do. Even a well funded high school lab can do karyotyping Karyotyping just doesn't relate to the sex chromosomes. For example, trisomy 21 is detected by karyotype. So, it's not like karyotyping is some kind of advanced high tech test. I do not believe that everyone needs to be karyotyped. However, in the case of male athletes who want to compete with female atheletes, or males who insist on using the women's facilities such as high school or college showers or locker rooms (Colleen Francis for example), I think karyotyping would be prudent. Doesn't karyotyping occur in the Olympics every now and then?

    "Which is happening more and more as trans people transition younger and younger."

    Yes, with puberty suppressing drugs, eleven or twelve year old children can essentially be de-sexed so to speak and not be allowed to go through puberty which, by the way, is a normal part of human development. If cross gender hormones are given right after puberty suppressing drugs, future fertility can be an issue. If children aren't allowed to go through puberty, then there is less healthy tissue or sexual characteristics to surgically remove later. Yes, the puberty suppressing drugs can be stopped, and normal adolescent development can start, but isn't it true that some "transgender" children go from puberty suppressing drugs directly to cross gender hormones? In many countries, testosterone can be started at age six-teen. "Transitioning" is in many cases just another word for chemically or surgically altering healthy genitals and reproductive systems. Because more and more trans people can "transition younger and younger" does this mean that transitioning is always necessary?

    "That's where Dirt's post falls to pieces. A petite and pretty trans woman or a stocky, bearded trans guy can't be pegged as their biological sex without taking their pants off and inspecting their sex organs or taking a tissue sample and karyotyping them."

    In most instances, one can tell the difference between a male and female just by looking. I admit that it is not always possible, but this does seem to case with Robert Ludwig, Collen Francis, and many other transwomen.

    If a human is born biological female, what is wrong with her stating that she is female, and thus the pronouns "she" or her" would apply?

    ReplyDelete
  40. "No one else gets to define other people's genders."

    "A trans individual gets to define their own gender."

    Do people get to define their gender at birth? I was born female, and I had no choice in the matter. I can't see that changing. Perhaps nature has something to say on the subject. No, nature doesn't exist because we can through the miracle of technology magically create males and females.

    Humans define and nature (everything that exists in the universe and all laws of science etc.) just sits there. Damn we are smart!

    ReplyDelete
  41. "In most instances, one can tell the difference between a male and female just by looking. I admit that it is not always possible, but this does seem to case with Robert Ludwig, Collen Francis, and many other transwomen.



    Gabrielle Ludwig and Colleen Francis are convenient examples of trans women who don't pass. Plenty do pass, which is the problem with Dirt's blanket "Looks like an X therefore is an X" statement.
    The reverse applies too - there are plenty of biological women who look like trans women. They get caught in the crossfire of this nonsense.


    If a human is born biological female, what is wrong with her stating that she is female, and thus the pronouns "she" or her" would apply?"

    Nothing? I'm not sure where this question is coming from. It seems like you're trying to say that the transgender people are forcing people to change pronouns or something.

    I like Dirt's red herring about correcting people though. Trans people won't correct people, because the 'wrong' pronouns are what they like.

    ReplyDelete
  42. QUESTION: IF PEOPLE GET TO DECIDE THEIR GENDER, WHY CAN'T PEOPLE DECIDE THEIR RACE OR ETHNIC GROUP?

    Another red herring.

    There is a roughly 50/50 chance of a zygote being male or female after conception.
    There is a zero percent chance of two Caucasians of European descent conceiving a zygote of African descent.

    It's the same with the "Trans people are like people who believe they are dogs or Napoleon" argument.
    Napoleon is dead. Your chances of being born 'Napoleon' are nil.
    Humans can't give birth to dogs. Your chances of being born a dog are nil.

    ReplyDelete
  43. This blog just gets more and more ridiculous. It used to upset me when I came on it, but now it's just like reading bad fanfiction or Twilight; you keep reading out of morbid fascination, while unable to decide whether or not someone is trolling you.
    10/10 for entertainment value, but I'm going to have to give it a 2/10 for actual interest or educational value.
    Still, carry on *gets out popcorn*

    ReplyDelete
  44. QUESTION: IF PEOPLE GET TO DECIDE THEIR GENDER, WHY CAN'T PEOPLE DECIDE THEIR RACE OR ETHNIC GROUP?

    “Another red herring.

    There is a roughly 50/50 chance of a zygote being male or female after conception.
    There is a zero percent chance of two Caucasians of European descent conceiving a zygote of African descent.

    It's the same with the "Trans people are like people who believe they are dogs or Napoleon" argument.
    Napoleon is dead. Your chances of being born 'Napoleon' are nil.
    Humans can't give birth to dogs. Your chances of being born a dog are nil.”

    “There is a roughly 50/50 chance of a zygote being male or female after conception. “

    TRUE, AND ROBERT LUDWIG WAS BORN A BIOLOGICAL MALE WHO FATHERED THREE CHILDREN. COLLEEN FRANCIS IS ALSO A BIOLOGICAL MALE WHO FATHERED CHILDREN JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER MALE REPRODUCES. SO, WHY ARE THESE BIOLOGICAL MALES ALLOWED TO CALL THEMSELVES FEMALES OR WOMEN? THIS IS MY POINT.

    I say that Robert Ludwig and Colleen Francis aren’t females. They disagree. Who is right? ***Most people would agree that both Robert Ludwig and Colleen Francis can never change their DNA or ancestry (ethnic group or race). This is ludicrous. However, it’s possible for them to change their sex. We are supposed to pretend it’s true. I DISAGREE. PROVE ME WRONG.

    This strikes at the heart of something that transgender refuse to address. How do we define female, or is there even such a thing as female? Can females be surgically constructed? If they can be surgically constructed, why not just create females in a laboratory? Females can be designed just like everything else.

    People would be utterly appalled if someone tried to surgically create an African American, but it’s possible to surgically create a female where one clearly didn’t exist before. We intuitively know that it isn’t true, but we are supposed to pretend it’s true.

    Not everyone is drinking the Kool- Aid.


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  45. "Dear reader discovering this blog for the first time,

    I want you to know that just because a lesbian is posting hateful things about trans people here, hers is the voice of a hateful minority. Most lesbians do not hate the trans community and are as happy to support you as you are them."

    "as you are them".........

    “Pimp slap is not enough here: a nice home run swing to the head with a 38-oz Louisville Slugger is more in order. There’s no brains in her head to destroy to start with. It’s personal, and if I ever saw her in my windshield, I’ll be wiping blood off my white Buick. But I won’t be using the brakes.”.
    http://gendertrender.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/monica-violence-1.jpg

    "I hope you die in a fire."

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2012/05/another-frightening-article-on.html

    "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Transwomen" because all lesbians need to love lady stick (a penis, but since it's on a transwoman it's lady stick)....get with the program... a penis really isn't a male organ if it's on a transwoman. Lesbians have to learn to like it....no, actually love it.....

    A PENIS IS NOT A MALE ORGAN....not if he says it's not.... understand that lesbians....Good!

    http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/tag/lesbian-transwomen/

    "What I see here are typical asshole feminist bitches who know nothing about FTMs, what they go through mentally, physically and emotionally with their bodies and sense of self. ...ugly ass cow. bitch, bitch....BITCH...fuggly ass dyke. Fuck off you bulldagging bitch."

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2012/08/ftm-where-self-hating-women-and-hatred.html



    ReplyDelete

  46. "People post a lot of awful things here, and a lot of lies. Please just remember:

    "You are a beautiful person."

    (Yes, women are exquisitely beautiful and intelligent)......this is why females need to surgically erase all appearance of the female form from their own bodies. Female anatomies are hideous to begin with.

    "You are a beautiful person."

    (Yes, and you will be fully empowered and far more attractive if we surgically alter your body.)

    "Top Surgery"

    Both areolas and nipples are literally cut off so that they can be reshaped down to size. Then, both healthy breasts are removed. After this, the reshaped areolas and nipples are then sewn back on. Or course, if areolas and nipples are cut off the female body, common sense says that there is a possibility of loss of sensation. Women don't need to feel their nipples. We can also take six to eight inches of skin from the arm or another part of the body and sew it onto the genital area of a female. It will never function like a penis and it might set you back $50,000 because of the multiple surgeries, but that doesn't matter. Remember, you are beautiful...

    WARNING! Graphic video

    Dr. Daniel Medalie performs FtM top surgery (double incision mastectomy with nipple grafting)

    http://www.surgerytheater.com/video/6423/Dr.%20Daniel%20Medalie%20performs%20FtM%20top%20surgery%20(double%20incision%20mastectomy%20with%20nipple%20grafting)

    copy and paste url

    ReplyDelete
  47. When did everyone let this get difficult? Well thankfully, you have Miz Know It All here to help!
    OK first things first! Pronouns are not chosen! They are assigned! They are assigned by other humans based on the outcome of their having "sexed" you! Sexing each other is something we do with every single person we meet. Something which is part of your genetic memory and in no way under your control!

    If the clues read in that split second add up to male, then you will be addressed as such, female, likewise! The ONLY thing which is under your control if you object to their decision is to correct the speaker, or you can alter your own appearance! That's it!

    You can resume the pointless squabbling now!

    ReplyDelete

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