Change Your World-NOT your Body

Saturday, November 10, 2012

Susan aka Buck Angel and the Violence Against Women


In continuing with my Violence Against Women series of posts and how female transition is informed by that violence, I received this picture of a young Susan Lee, whom most would know as the trans female pornography victim buck angel.

This picture I understand, comes from a 1993 music video called Cursed Female by Porno for Pyros (a sign of things to come for her obviously). Clearly this image of Susan predates her use of steroids and later testosterone and steroid use combined. While a video, yes, I think it safe to assume Susan is not merely just playing an insecure young woman uncomfortable (ashamed?) with herself, this video reflects Susan's own self hatred. From the clothes that are clearly wearing her, to her trying to cover her breast ashamedly. Something we see frequently from today's Trans Trenders in similar garb. Garb that isnt worn simply for comfort and fit, but garb that in the mind of the wearer is worn to reflect gender. In Susan's case, a male gender. When clothing is sported for the purpose of gender deception, the malaise of the person becomes magnified, as we see in the above picture. This malaise (a woman in male clothing) can also point, if not outright lead one, to the road to transition. A road that has been paved by far too many female victims of violence, just as Susan has been.

I also received this picture of Susan, which seems to be a later picture of when she was modeling:

I have no idea how long Susan modeled or whether she had any great success at it, I would wager though that through modeling she not only employed performing for the male gaze (for a price), she further ingrained that patriarchal demand within her. One it seems that played straight into her current role as a victim of pornography for profit. One thing for sure, if we picture her without the make up, without the model clothes and pose, there once existed a sad (perhaps lonely) woman who deserved much more than to have been turned into this:

This is Susan today, unrecognizable as Susan, but clearly still very much a woman. A woman lost, a woman in pain and a woman who epitomizes misogyny and the Violence Against Women. What this isnt and what Susan and her community of self haters would have you believe is that buck is well adjusted now. No longer using drugs and alcohol to ease/erase her wounded woman's soul, but out, proud and not afraid to explore her sexuality and make a nice buck for doing so.  But there is a HUGE difference between what she portrays and what Susan is and knows she is. Addicted to testosterone and steroids instead of coke/heroin/booze isnt exactly the same as being drug free and healthy any more than having her pussy violated by men for money is possessing a healthy sexuality.

Statistically we know that most females who wind up in pornography were victims of some form/forms of sexual abuse. Pornography is a way to punish the female body that let them down, rather than punish their abuser. Pornography is the TOTAL externalization of the internalization of the sexual violence done to the female victim! Susan isnt special because she is trans, she is merely another female victim of male violence, what separates her from other female victims of male violence is her utilizing the Male Medical Machine and male pornography to further apply male violence to her body.

dirt
Enhanced by Zemanta
Share:

152 comments:

  1. Since you are also a woman in male clothing, when can we expect to see you beginning your transition, Dirt?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Got nothing better to do than to trash Buck Angel? I'm sure he could care less of what you think about him.

    ReplyDelete
  3. So Dirt wants us to think "outside the Gender Straight Jacket," but a woman wearing men's clothing isn't OK? And a person redefining their gender isn't OK?

    I'm wondering something. I was an alcoholic, but with the help of anti-depressants, I've been able to stay sober for over five years. Am I addicted to the anti-depressants now?

    Testosterone is just a medication, with positive and potential negative effects, just like any other medication. Yes, medications are drugs. No, taking prescribed medications at the prescribed levels is not the same as drug abuse.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Buck Angel is fucking awesome!

    Do you remember when Dirt posted a "truth about testosterone" page, and she said something along the lines of most transguys will look like chubby midgets or something? And she said you won't look like a sexy built dude? Just saying.

    ReplyDelete
  5. It's gotta have something to complain and ramble on about.

    What about Dykes like Master Amazon beating other women with whips and shit? slef-hating lesbos and violence against women!

    ReplyDelete
  6. people who are Anti-porn are anti-female liberation!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Why do you insist on calling someone by a name they had changed years ago? a name they don't identify with as if it is their REAL name?

    Just another Bitch being a cunt, cunts love bitching.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Lynn Baker A.K.A. Squit, I mean dirt has nothing better to do than to bash someone who couldn't give two fucks about what she thinks about him.

    Buck Angel rocks!!!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Dirt has a personal vendetta against Buck, suppressed jealousy I assume, she cant stop talking about him and looking at his porn.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Master Amazons profile link that was sent to me:
    https://fetlife.com/users/109255

    Anyways....got anymore porn for us?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Some feminists feel that porn is a result of a misogynist society. While I don't agree, I do understand that point of view.

    However, I don't think it's fair to try to make a case against trans people because of some trans people in porn. If we're going that road, then logically, the gender identities of female bodied people who identify as women must be wrong, and male bodied people who identify as men must also be wrong. Because there are a lot more biologic men and women in porn then there are trans people in porn.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Dirt has true inner confidence, and I assure you, she is not jealous of the fucked up Buck Angel. However, I think quite a few trans people are secretly jealous of Dirt. If you're trans then you're not comfortable in your own body, so you keep coming back to her blog searching for the missing pieces of yourself. A person who has to go under the knife to "be themselves" is a weak minded, lost person.

    I found another blog article which I believe is relevant to this post.

    http://righteous-anger.blogspot.com/2012/07/feminism-sex-industry-and-sex-positivity.html?zx=470a71c23f1754c7

    ReplyDelete
  13. No trans guy is jealous of dirt. She is ugly on the outside as well as on the inside. We come to this blog because it's like a train wreck...gotta watch the drama unfold!!! It's a complete disaster!!!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Something we see frequently from today's Trans Trenders in similar garb

    Honey, I would not be seen dead in that beige getup. Got way too much taste for khaki pants.

    I'll have to give you a gold star for stating that Susan is unrecognizable as Susan. That might be because Susan isn't Susan - Susan is Buck. Really Dirt, go straight to the top of the class for that masterful observation.

    ReplyDelete
  15. It’s interesting to me that the Philadelphia Trans Health Conference would have a workshop for transmen (FTM) in the sex industry, or considering the sex industry as an occupation.

    http://www.trans-health.org/content/transguys-are-sex-workers-too-guided-discussion-ftmtransmales-or-considering-sex-work

    AVN (Adult Video News) Award ….Better than a Nobel Prize…..

    Buck Angel is a female-to-male (FTM) transsexual, adult film producer and performer, and LGBT icon. He is also founder of Buck Angel Entertainment, as a vehicle to produce media projects. He received the 2007 AVN Award as Transsexual Performer of the Year. Also in 2005, Buck performed in Allanah Starr's Big Boob Adventures, directed by transsexual Gia Darling, which included a pornographic first: a filmed sex scene between a male-to-female transsexual (Allanah Starr) and a female-to-male transsexual.[8] For that performance Allanah was nominated for two AVN Awards including Transsexual Performer of the Year and Most Outrageous Sex Scene.

    *In January 2007, he won Transsexual Performer of the Year at the AVN Awards,[18]
    *In 2008, 2009, and 2010, he was nominated for Transsexual Performer of the Year. He remains the only FTM transsexual ever to have been nominated for the award.
    *In April 2008 he was presented with a "Feminist Porn Award" for "Boundary Breaker of the Year"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Angel

    Please note the “Feminist Porn Award”. Where is Gail Dines when we need her? Read Gail Dine's book "Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality" then, if you can stand the utter misogyny and don't wretch, watch Buck Angel being screwed every which way imaginable.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I actually feel sorry for Buck Angel. To lose the ability to love one's inner female beauty must leave an enormous empty hole in very soul of a human born as female from the womb of a woman. I read somewhere that in order to “perform” in body punishing pornography women have to mentally and emotionally disconnect from their bodies. This is the only way that they can emotionally handle it. Again, I feel so sorry for the female that is Buck Angel because she knows that deep inside her there is an enormous empty gap where her soul used to be.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Gail Dines on the brutalization of women...

    "Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality"

    “One problem I knew I had to deal with as I was writing the book was the inevitable accusation that, because I am anti-porn, I must be an anti-sex prude who is out to police people’s sex lives. To criticize porn today is to be seen as criticizing sex, because–thanks to the porn PR machine–porn has now become synonymous with sex….This is a business with considerable political clout, with the capacity to lobby politicians, engage in expensive legal battles, and use public relations to influence public debate. As with the tobacco industry, this is not a simple matter of consumer choice; rather, the business is increasingly able to deploy a sophisticated and well-resourced marketing machine, not just to push its wares but also to cast the industry’s image in a positive light.”

    Gail Dines quoted in alternet.org

    GD: If you watch pornography you see that immediately. What you see is a woman being penetrated brutally vaginally, anally and orally. As that’s happening — three men at one time, four men at one time — she’s being called vile, hateful names, she’s being sometimes slapped, sometimes her hair is pulled… Even the industry said that many women have a hard time being in the industry for more than three months. Why? Because of the brutalization of the body.

    SK: Three months?

    GD: That’s what the article says in Adult Video News. Also, I’ve interviewed somebody who worked with AIM, the health care organization that takes care of the health of porn performers, and he was telling me just what happens to the bodies of these women. For example, he said one of the big things are anal prolapses, where literally their anuses drop out of their body and have to be sewn back in because of the brutal anal sex. He also talked about gonorrhea of the eye, and the latest thing — because you have something called [ass to mouth] — they put the penis into the anus, and then into her mouth without washing. They’re finding now that women are getting fecal bacterial infections in their mouth and throat. ”

    Gail Dines
    http://www.alternet.org/story/148142/should_we_worry_whether_porn_has_hijacked_our_sexuality?page=0%2C0



    ReplyDelete
  18. "Dirt has true inner confidence, and I assure you, she is not jealous of the fucked up Buck Angel"
    are you kidding? go watch a video by buck and then go watch a video by dirt, watch the body language, Buck is a confident, content and happy person, dirt is very cold and absent of emotion. Dirt is not a happy nor confident person.

    ReplyDelete
  19. A guy named Billy who met Buck in person says:

    (s)he stayed at the hotel i work at a few times and it was funny how obvious it was to me and the other people i worked with that it was not a real dude...

    kinda like how women can sniff out trannies...

    same shit, like i remember him coming in and walking past my boy and as soon as the door closing, him going, "man, that was a really weird dude" and me getting to go "THAT AINT NO DUDE"...

    so, the whole cigar smoking macho thing is a goof... basically, you got a mild mannered deepwoods lesbo type who took alot of hormones and cut her tits off... no macho dude vibes...

    ReplyDelete
  20. How can anyone take a comment with such atrocious grammar and bigoted language seriously? sounds like you are talking out your arse.

    ReplyDelete
  21. anon 5:24

    "I feel so sorry for the female that is Buck Angel because she knows that deep inside her there is an enormous empty gap where her soul used to be."

    Honestly, i have spoken to and met Buck Angel. i can promise you that HE does not have an "empty gap" if anything the whole that was in his heart while growing up is now filled, with happiness, confidence, and love. im and unsure of why you women feel the way you do about transgenderism. i am also unsure as to why other men feed into dirts OPINIONS. Shes entitled to her own opinion. By feeding into her thoughts and coming back with hateful comments is not the appropriate thing to do. Now while i do NOT agree with her opinions and thoughts. i am not going to bash her. If anything i feel sorry for her. i have never met a race, gender, orientation, religion that i have not loved and tried to understand because above all we are all HUMAN. yes we are prone to the feeling of hate but we are also prone to many more emotions. just stop fueling the fire. because the more you reply with anger, the larger her grin gets.

    ReplyDelete

  22. "November 10, 2012 5:24 PM"
    I cant stand people that talk in this vague bullshit kind of way, projecting their own emotions and opinions on to other people, not everyone is a prude, not everyone views sex the way you do.
    There is no such things as a soul, do you not live in the real world? Plant your feet firmly on the ground and talk like a normal human being, damn, weak sauce you twat.

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ 4:36

    Some of us come to this blog to provide a trans voice. We do it so that other people coming across this blog won't just see the anti-trans bashing and feel despair. Someone has to balance out your cruelty and misinformation.

    And some come because it's fucking hilarious how ridiculous trans-deniers are.

    5:24 PM

    No. No you don't know that. Have you ever talked with someone in the porn industry? You only know your personal perspective, you don't know how other people you've never met think and feel.

    Or you could go read things Buck Angel has said himself and see what a great, fulfilled person he is.

    @ 5:30

    There are feminists writing about how porn benefits women too:
    http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/mcelroy_17_4.html


    @ 6:30

    You're just being offensive to trans people, women, men, and lesbians by quoting that.

    ReplyDelete
  24. If you want to read more about feminism and porn (both philosophies for and against it), here's a couple of links:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_of_pornography

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/23/feminist-porn-sex-consent-and-getting-off/

    I really think that if people want to argue whether porn is good or bad or something in between, you should find a blog or forum where that's the main topic.

    This blog is about trans-bashing. Don't ever forget that.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Susan was so beautiful, now she's just a grotesque caricature of a man. If she had a pseudo cock surgically attached she wouldn't be popular at all. She's marketing the hell out of her novel product, her incongruent looking body. She captures the public's attention for the same reasons circus freaks do, people love to gawk at oddities. Yes, the new freak show is in town and for ten bucks the bearded lady will show you her pussy.

    ReplyDelete
  26. @ 1:05

    What hateful things to day. Buck is a beautiful person. The so called circus freaks you're comparing him to are beautiful people. Do you feel that only people who look like airbrushed models in the media are beautiful?

    Why do you insist on saying hurtful things about your fellow human beings? Why do you spread intolerance and hate?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Those faggy trannies are fucking ugly. Dirt has it right. These transgender cunts are gross. Somebody needs to fucking tell them that to their ugly cunt faces.

    They're cutting their tits off and pretending to have dicks. It's makes me want to throw up. It's unnatural, like their faggy friends all sucking each others dicks.

    We have to put up with fucking fags acting like they should be proud of themselves. No way should we have to put up with these stupid bitches who want to pretend they're men.

    Sex reassignment should be illegal. Stupid cunts don't know what they're doing. It should be illegal, just like abortion should be illegal. These women are fucking crazy, nobody should let them make a decision that is going to affect lives.

    OUTLAW ABORTION. OUTLAW SEX CHANGES.

    Abortion murders babies and sex changes murders real women.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Very mature nov 11th 228

    You have no idea what beauty is. Dirt at least doesn't put things like that. By the way you just murdered the English language. Also with the misogynistic comments. "bitches" "cunts" maybe its just the lack of intelligence or just the ignorance. I feel sorry for you

    ReplyDelete
  29. "Yes, the new freak show is in town and for ten bucks the bearded lady will show you her pussy."

    Maybe that's how much you charge to show your pussy...oh wait, you'd charge much less than that.

    To the Anon psycho at 2:28 AM...You need to do something about all that anger of yours. Maybe check yourself into a mental ward for a few weeks. By you call trans men cunts, you are also calling yourself a cunt. Go take a chill pill toots!

    ReplyDelete
  30. Have just come across this blog and have wasted an hour or so, reading this stuff. All that I see, is hate!
    I thought that the world was getting beyond this hate speech? shouldn't we all simply be the rich variety of the human experience and leave it at that?
    Won't be back !!!

    ReplyDelete
  31. Does anybody else find it really, really sad? Looking at the pictures makes me almost physically sick.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  32. Germany, I agree with you, it is sickening. Those trannies are disgusting. You and Dirt know what's what. Fucking faggy trannies. They're the ones who should be checked into mental institutions. Germany and Dirt know that it's disgusting what these people do with their bodies. Just as disgusting as abortion. They know that the trannies and the baby murderers are just crazy hysterical cunts.

    ReplyDelete
  33. @ 10:52 AM

    I actually wish Dirt would put things like that. Since that's the way she obviously feels.

    Honestly, Dirt, Germany, and the other trans-bashers are just as offensive to me as that person. They just couch their hate in rhetoric about trying to help people. But really, they're just full of hate.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I'm a transman and just so you know, I'm extremely happy, healthy and productive member of society (much more so since beginning my transition) I never feel the need or urge to hate anybody because of their identity or beliefs... Funny that!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Germany,

    I completely agree.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Yeah, other anon! You, Germany and me, we get that these trannies are abominations and sinners, just like the baby murderers who use abortion as birth control.

    ReplyDelete
  37. You intentionally used Buck's birth name repeatedly for the sole purpose of negating his identity. Because you are a pathetic, lost little girl who has nothing better to do with her time than stalk transmen.

    I don't give a fuck about Buck and his porn life. That's one guy. I can't even figure out why you are so incensed about his life. Why is he such a tragedy having consensual sex for entertainment when countless females have had their lives wrecked by nonconsensual sex and coerced porn careers? Why are you so obsessed with us? What is wrong with your life? Do you not have anyone that loves you who can save you from your unhealthy obsession with transmen? You are not doing good work, you are not helping anyone, and you are completely deranged. Just look at the company you keep....

    ReplyDelete
  38. I'm going to begin by saying that Buck Angel and I are far from homeboys. I find him misogynist and violence-apologist and a few other things.

    Now, while I can make a reasonable argument for my dislike for Mr. Angel using facts and reason, resulting in a well-thought-out argument, you seem to be devoid of this ability. Heck, grammar seems to escape you, as noted in your misplaced possessives, punctuation, and pluralizations.(vagina's, pussy's, ad infinitum)

    Your so-called case against Buck Angel involves invoking his dead name and basically saying "look at this freaky tr*nny". You also display graphic content in order to get a rise out of your readers, the majority of whom would rather eat flaming coals than see a natal penis. This image was purposely used, despite the fact that Buck works with women on a fairly regular basis. The image is designed to gross dykes out, and it's really inappropriate for a blog that is supposed to be Google searchable and all-ages.

    Now, on to the language. Inaccurate pronouns are used to erase Buck's chosen identity, to dehumanize, and to attempt to assert power over a man that you do not own. Buck Angel, for good or bad, does not belong to you or anyone else. Your poorly-written, uneducated, agency-thieving screed is not fooling anyone.

    You, Ms. B, are a terrible human being and an even worse academic. I leave you now to fester in the soil that only a mind as demented as yours can create.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. *slow claps*

      Thanks.

      Delete
    2. "Heck, grammar seems to escape you, as noted in your misplaced possessives, punctuation, and pluralizations."

      This kind of pedantry is pointless low-hanging fruit for people too lazy or stupid to refute the content. The purpose of language is the communication of ideas. If the grammar/spelling isn't blocking communication, then it's fine outside of a formal context.

      Being a grammar Nazi doesn't make you smart, just arrogant. Ask any actual linguist, and they'll tell you the same.

      http://allthingslinguistic.com/post/138371292374/linguistic-knowledge-versus-pedantry-a-graph-a

      Delete
  39. Anons @12:31 + 2:49,
    I meant I find it very, very sad as in opposite from happy, joyful. I did not imply anyone is an abomination, a sinner, etc. I know 99% of the world's population would agree with me that the person getting fu--ed in that picture is not male, and why can't we look critically at the "trans" question anyway? I admit, I find all Porn disgusting, and people who watch it very unimaginative and non-sensual.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  40. Those faggy trannies are fucking ugly. Dirt has it right. These transgender cunts are gross. Somebody needs to fucking tell them that to their ugly cunt faces.

    They're cutting their tits off and pretending to have dicks. It's makes me want to throw up. It's unnatural, like their faggy friends all sucking each others dicks.

    We have to put up with fucking fags acting like they should be proud of themselves. No way should we have to put up with these stupid bitches who want to pretend they're men.

    "Sex reassignment should be illegal. Stupid cunts don't know what they're doing. It should be illegal, just like abortion should be illegal. These women are fucking crazy, nobody should let them make a decision that is going to affect lives.

    OUTLAW ABORTION. OUTLAW SEX CHANGES."



    Wow, this bitch needs to take some midol or something!
    No, you sweetheart are the cunt!

    ReplyDelete
  41. Dirt is just showing disgusting pictures of trannies to shock you people into realizing what's wrong with you. She just has the balls to stand up for what she believes in. Just like the heroes who stand in front of abortion clinics with pictures of dead fetuses.

    Women who get sex changes are going to regret it, just like women who get abortions do. It fucks them up for the rest of their lives and it's MURDER.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anon@ 3:20- I think "Buck" does have kind of a "chubby midget" face and is not "a sexy built dude". A good tip is for you to compare these women on "t" with real men. Compare Buck to like the Hodge Twins (I'm sure I'd get thrown out of every feminest club forever for admitting I watch their videoes on current events occasionally to laugh.)
    Too bad when "Buck" was Susan she didn't spend all that time and energy at the gym, because she could have turned every head (and felt much better about herself)as a well-toned woman.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  43. @ Germany

    Not too long ago, 99% of people would have agreed that homosexuals were sick and needed to be cured of their gayness. Your 99% argument doesn't mean anything when it comes to an individual's identity.

    I don't know why you and other people keep asking why we can't look at trans critically. Besides the comments from people who are just here to spout offensive nonsense, looking at trans critically is all the commenters here have been doing. I want to know why you don't respond to the people who want to look at trans-denying critically. For example, I've asked repeatedly why people have a problem with testosterone, but they're OK with other drugs that have potentially dangerous side-effects (like anti-depressants). I've also asked why people don't think sex-reassignment should be done (due to the possibility of cultural influence, or the chance of regret), but they are OK with being pro-choice. Unless you really are like the poster who believes that sex-reassignment and abortion should both be outlawed.

    I don't care about anyone's opinion on porn. That doesn't have anything to do with the trans identity. There are as varied opinions about porn in the trans community as there are in any other community. So, again, I think if people want to talk about porn itself, they need to do that someplace else. Stop confusing your trans-bashing with it.

    Oh, I see you posted again. OK, so you think Buck has a midget face. 99% of people wouldn't agree with you (here, that 99% works because it has to do with a matter of opinion, not with someone's personal identity). Now I'm pretty sure you're just saying stuff to be a jerk. Or, actually, it's probably confirmation bias. You're seeing what you expect to see, no matter what the truth is. Confirmation bias plagues all humans, no matter what we believe.

    ReplyDelete
  44. @ Germany

    Haha, I just realized! It totally is confirmation bias!

    Dirt didn't say that trans guys had chubby midget faces. She said that testosterone makes your voice sound like a midget's, and she posted pictures of men who had nice chests and abs and said that trans men wouldn't look like that (instead posting pictures of overweight trans men).

    You just took something that a trans-supporter said in this thread, and said the opposite, because your perspective doesn't allow you to agree with a trans-supporter. It's not even a thing that Dirt or any other trans-basher I know has said.

    That's hilarious. Seeing confirmation bias in action like that.

    ReplyDelete
  45. @ Anon 12:31 -
    Yes, I thought of "chubby midget face" myself - what's your point?
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  46. @ Germany

    The point is that you didn't think of it yourself. I said something about Dirt saying that transmen looked like chubby midgets at "November 10, 2012 3:20 PM."

    You saw someone saying that Buck doesn't look like a chubby midget, and then you said that he does have a chubby midget face. This is what confirmation bias is about. You see someone who disagrees with you say something, and then your brain takes that and convinces you that you believe the opposite. Even if there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @Germany
    What you got against midgets?

    ReplyDelete
  48. Dear Government.
    Please create a new anti-female conspiracy to keep the hopelessly self opwessed feminists occupied so we can continue to live our lives without having to hear their constant, petty, nagging and whining.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @ 4:27 PM

    Haha, nice.

    The problem is that there are plenty of real acts of violence against women, there are rape apologists in our government, women across our country are being denied health care, there is real human trafficking going on every day. Instead of trying to educate people about these real problems, trans-deniers are spending their time coming up with "feminist" excuses to bash trans people.

    I don't think they realize that the damage they're causing. But they are actively participating to a culture that allows for the hate of trans people, which supports violence against trans people. This kind of intolerance makes you complicit in every beating, every rape, every murder that is perpetrated on a trans person.

    It's fine if you don't like the idea of transgender and transitioning. However, actively saying that trans people are disgusting or strange, comparing them to rapists, spreading this open disgust for them only spreads a culture of intolerance, and that culture is what helps people think it's OK to lash out against people physically.

    Trans-deniers are doing exactly the same thing that people who tried to "cure" homosexuals did. How they spread lies about how gay sex or the gay "lifestyle" was unhealthy, and talked about gay sex or posted pictures of it to disgust people. How they should openly attempt to shame gays in their communities. This creates and atmosphere in which it became OK to commit violence against gays.

    Trans-deniers keep asking why it's not OK for them to ask whether transitioning is bad. We keep saying, there's nothing wrong with asking that. But it's wrong to be abusive about it.

    So here's my questions, trans-deniers. Why are you not OK with people questioning how you choose to express your discomfort with transitioning? Why do you insist on using language to describe trans people as disgusting or innately bad?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Can you ablist swine stop using words like "midget" please?

    ReplyDelete
  51. @ Michel-Exildas

    Not super helpful to the discussion. You could have said, "Please be aware that 'midget' is an ableist term and should be avoided." Of course, not everyone is going to avoid it, because we clearly have people here who are not interested in being PC (I have seen a few rants against the idea of political correctness around here).

    But still, you calling people "swine" isn't going to change anybody's behavior. It's more likely to make people defensive and probably what's going to happen now is people are going to start using the word even more just in an attempt to troll you. They might start throwing in some more ableist words too.

    People are not going to be nice on this blog. That's too much to ask when emotions are running high. That doesn't mean you shouldn't point out the unkind things that people do here. I just believe that the more of us who try to remain civil, the less offensive language we'll see. It's not going away, but we have the power to reduce it through our own actions.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Indeed. My well-reasoned arguments have always been ignored here. My suspicion would be that the vast majority of the folks who troll this blog are not as well-versed in their first language as I am in my third.

    As for emotions, the only one I feel when I come here is an incredible sadness. It pains me to encounter folks like Nov 12, 12:08, who feel entitled to use anti-choice screeds in their supposed defense of so-called 'real' women. The ableism is simply the larvae on the cow patty.

    As for me, you wouldn't know I'm trans from seeing me in public. The vast majority of us just go about our lives and enjoy our families, jobs, and friends. We're not on YouTube giggling and primping and discussing our latest arse hair.

    I suppose the most terrifying thing for a person like Dirt is that we can contently live our lives without her express written consent. The trans-eraser, like most bigots, has no vision of happy coexistence, but of his or her group's superiority over another. Dirt, like the rest, gains a sense of esteem by belittling visibly trans individuals. Insecurity is at the root of all discrimination; a fear that if group X attains one right that they'll want more and the power balance will shift. It's the basis for the existence of the Tea Party, Men's Rights Activism, and, regrettably, The Dirt From Dirt.

    ReplyDelete
  53. @ Michel-Exildas

    It's true that well-reasoned arguments tend to get ignored here. Though, I have to point out that jabs at people for being less skilled at using the written word isn't a well-reasoned argument either.

    My emotions have ranged from sadness, to anger, to hurt. But I also have felt pride, love, and amusement for the trans folks and allies who do chose to post thoughtful, well-reasoned, and/or kind things here. When I first found this blog, it sent me into one of my darkest depressions in a long time, just knowing that people I thought I could count on (lesbians) hated me just as much as the straight men who have threatened to kill me because of who I love.

    But then I realized there were allies coming here, doing their best to make their voices heard, and offer their perspective. And I decided to be one of those voices, not for Dirt's sake, not to try to change the minds of trans-deniers, but to show other people who come to this blog that the anti-trans "feminists" are the minority.

    I totally agree with your analysis of Dirt and her power play attempts. That was better said than anything I've written along those lines.

    Thank you for talking with me about this all so nicely. I wasn't sure I should say anything and get us off topic, but... well I have strong opinions about a lot of things and it's hard to shut me up.

    ReplyDelete
  54. PS: Sorry I'm posting as anon. I used to log in to post, but Dirt removes my posts as soon as she sees them. She doesn't seem to look at the anon posts closely enough to find me and remove them.

    ReplyDelete
  55. 6:05 PM

    I would say violence and rape against men is what is truly being swept under the rug in our current society.
    many legal definitions of rape exempt men from being legally raped, and violence against men, particularly by women, is still regarded as humorous in western society.
    people can be rape apologists, they have the right to an opinion, what matters is law and human rights, of which women currently hold more of.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Michel-Exildas Galipeau

    If you stop to listen to the MRA's you might realize that they have been expressing some very valid concerns.
    They aren't the most PC group, but they tend to like to call a spade a spade.
    From what I have seen from mainstream MRA's, They do truly want equality between the sexes, I haven't seen them advocate taking any rights away from women like I have seen from so many feminists.

    I'm not saying a few fringe misogynists exist within the MRA, but in general it is an equality driven movement.

    ReplyDelete
  57. @ 11:47 PM

    It's not true that women hold more rights. Rape of all kinds are being swept under the rug in our society. Rape in general is considered humorous (I believe it was Dane Cook who was not too long ago getting a lot of flack for his rape jokes, but he is not an exception, he's an example of the rule).

    I am not aware of any still existing laws in which men can't be legally raped. I'd be interested to know what you're referring to. I wouldn't be very surprised to find out there are some old laws still in place like that. After all, it took a long time for us to define rape at all in a legal way. And it remains difficult to prosecute rapists because of the idea that the victim really wanted sex, or put themselves into situations where they could be raped (and should have known better, apparently).

    Rape is a crime that affects all people, male or female, straight or gay, young or old. However, it is a crime that is disproportionately perpetrated against women. Honestly, instead of complaining that men being raped doesn't get enough attention, we should be thankful that there are people who have struggled so hard to make the rape of women illegal, and to make it easier to prosecute rapists, because if they hadn't, then there would be no one believing men could be raped at all.

    Furthering the rights of women helps the rights of all humans. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked the other way around, historically.

    If you're looking for support as a male rape survivor, here's a potential starting point: http://www.pandys.org/malesurvivors.html

    But this is getting off topic again.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I just want to say that since I've started testosterone:

    -My chronic yest infections have gone away
    -My energy is improved, which has led me to exercise more, which increases my energy further
    -I've experienced less depression (absolutely no thoughts of suicide)
    -My anxiety attacks have gone away
    -I've lost weight (at a healthy pace of a few pounds each month)
    -I've gotten my sex drive back (it's been mostly dead since I had to start on anti-depressants)
    -I've experienced less anger and have found myself being more patient with people
    -I no longer feel horrible pain when I ovulate, because I don't ovulate!
    -I have been working with my doctor to monitor things like cholesterol, and have had no problems so far (bad cholesterol was slightly high last time, but that was probably more due to my diet, which I've made changes to)

    Of course, I've been on it less than a year, and I am aware of all the potential effects that you could find listed here (yes, including PCOS):

    http://www.ftmguide.org/ttherapybasics.html

    I'm also still looking forward to my chest reconstruction in January, and an end to the constant back pain I've dealt with for years.

    Since people constantly post their thoughts about why they think testosterone and top surgery are bad, I figured it's fair for me to post how my life is being positively affected.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anon@ 2:50 -
    I still don't understand your point - when I learned English, if you take a statement from someone else, you put it in quotation marks, which I did with "chubby midget", I then added the word "face" all on my own. I often do that to show the absurdity/offensiveness statements/words. None of this changes the fact that I think B. Angel in no way represents natural male beauty (which the original "chubby midget" anon implied)- he looks like the banker on the Monopoly board game. Let's lay "chubby midget" to rest.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  60. Rape and violence against women is nowhere near treated as humorous as violence and rape against men, Jail rape is a laughing stock in the US and "humorous" violence against men in the media is rampant and almost non-existent for women in the media.
    The definition of “rape” in many parts of the world excludes men.
    FBI:
    "For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?
    No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as “The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will” (p. 19). In addition, “By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury"
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_faqs

    “Honestly, instead of complaining that men being raped doesn't get enough attention, we should be thankful that there are people who have struggled so hard to make the rape of women illegal”

    So yeah, rape against men doesn’t matter as long as women aren’t being raped, its all good

    ohh and by the way, there have been laws against raping women for centuries, there weren't laws regarding men raping their wives, but there weren't laws against wives raping their husbands either, men are only just catching up to women regarding rape now, and its still hardly taken seriously.

    Rape against women has always been considered abhorrent due to women's reproductive power.


    ReplyDelete
  61. As a transman I'm reading all this crap about looking like a midget and "male beauty" and looks In general and I cant help but think.. who gives a shit?
    Then I realize that even though feminists protest against women only being worth their physical beauty, beauty is something they hold to a high standard of ones value as a human being regardless, women are obsessed with how good they look and are always the first to criticize others of how they look.

    In short, even though feminists act like women are more than tits and ass, they do hold physical appearance to a high standard, looking ugly is something that lays heavy on them, since they know personal looks is important to them, they expect it to be equally as important to trans men.
    personally, couldn't give a fuck.

    ReplyDelete
  62. These are a few reasons why I think it's important to look at the "trans" question critically, and I don't think this is bashing:

    1. We know the trans concept started (medical experimentation) here in Europe a bit over 100 years ago as a result of gay men desiring to be "normal"/straight.

    2. We know in the last few years, through internet, that the number of young Lesbians "transitioning" has sky-rocketed.

    3. We know minorities in society experience a desire for "normalization."

    4. We highly suspect that every gay person experiences some form of gender melancholy when coming to grips with how different they are to mainstream society.

    5. We know society gives us the message that Lesbains are basically worthless, and that 2 women can't even have sex together - who wants to be that and who can blame young Lesbians for such low self-esteem? Gay men stay gay men (society tells us Gay men have lots of sex.)
    I honestly don't think any amount of logic, etc. will stem the tide of FtM's at this point, but you can't blame us for trying. I think it will take a generation before we wil see it slow down, when the next generation of Lesbians sees how today's FtM's end up looking/living and decide they don't want to be that.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anon@ 2:46 - Why can't I disagree when anon@Nov 10 3:20 calls B.A. a "sexy built dude"?
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  64. The argument that people transition because of social pressures is a very flimsy one, no one has explained the mechanism that causes some people to feel they are trans gender when others don't, there's a huge gap there that needs to be filled in with great detail.

    I agree that transgenderism should be looked at critically, but the concept that trans people only feel the way they do because of social pressures to be normalized is full of holes, work on them.

    As for Germany

    You know very well that you started mocking BA, you didn't say "I disagree" you went on to describe what you felt he looked like, you attacked his appearance, don't try and wiggle your way out of it now, you are just like so many other women who judge a persons worth by their looks.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anon@ 5:47,
    In time, you will see I am right. Also, when you are older, you will come to realise just how much societal BS you actually internalized, as a woman, a gay person, whatever you are. I outlined the very basics for you. Yes, these "feelings" for which each young woman may have very different causes, are now all being called "transgender." I never said life is easy, and I further believe each trans person has 2 things in common:
    1. They are labile
    2. They have other problems as well

    Why do I care? Because testosterone and operations profoundly and permanently alter their healthy bodies, because they are masquerading as men, because they really find this a better alternative than their reality, Lesbian women.

    Yes, I talked about B.A.'s appearance as a response to the "sexy built dude" comment - sorry if that gets your panties in such a twist.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  66. "In time, you will see I am right."
    No I don't think so, your current explanation is again, flimsy, I have never put faith in such a weak argument and I'm not bout to start.
    Claiming you are RIGHT on a blog composed of 100% confirmation bias is a pretty good sign that you are not rational, truly skeptic or have the slightest understanding of how the scientific method works. (no scientist would ever claim that they are 100% correct)
    I understand what It is you believe, but you have yet to explain why it is correct, you haven't made a link, you haven't explained the mechanism, if you want people to believe you are "right" then go away, do some research, come back with a full explanation and supporting evidence, have fun.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anon @9:28,
    I am not your therapist, and I don't know your personal experiences. I do know what I wrote Nov. 13 3:06 are the basics of why I believe there is a sky-rocketing FtM population. Please read that post carefully, and then try to articulate your point of why you think you are really a man.
    Call me whatever names you want, but what I wrote was nothing new or revolutionary, I just put it together for you.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  68. "I am not your therapist, and I don't know your personal experiences"
    You don't need to be my therapist, just comes to show how little research you have done in to transgenderism, what it is, what the mechanisms are etc. you have no real explanations for what might cause someone to identify with the opposite sex due to social pressures, particularly in a society where women are constantly praised or viewed as victims, while men are constantly demonized.
    not to mention your theory falls flat when you use it on MTF's, so if you are like dirt, you probably believe MTFs are sexual deviants or some bullshit like that, because again, our feminist society demonizes men, while females are always victims.
    women cant even take up jobs in prostitution or pornography without being branded victims of their own life choices.

    Also there are many reasons why there might appear to be more transmen popping up in recent history, the rapid growth of human population, the internet, social networking, websites like YouTube that have been around for about 7 years.
    I know for me that even though I thought often about sex reassignment, I wasn't aware that it was an option available to me, transmen were never talked about, had I known earlier, I would have gone down the transitional route much sooner, so again, another reason people may be transitioning more is simply awareness.
    So many possible explanations, what makes you think yours is the correct one? again, you have no evidence to support your opinion.

    Lastly I'm not calling you anything, just making reasonable observations.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I know for me that even though I thought often about sex reassignment, I wasn't aware that it was an option available to me, transmen were never talked about, had I known earlier, I would have gone down the transitional route much sooner, so again, another reason people may be transitioning more is simply awareness."

      If you always knew you were secretly a man inside -- because that's your intrinsic and immutable gender identity -- how did the option of changing your appearance and living as a man never occur to you? This is my theory:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_contagion

      Delete
  69. Anon@ 11:10,
    You didn't answer the question. I agree that the internet is key in spreading the FtM trend,I've said that many times before. I don't see a huge rise in MtF's like we see in FtM's, and another big difference is when an MtF "transitions" they mostly go all-out and fully transition. I don't see streams of young gay men transitioning, like Lesbians are. I explained the basics to you earlier of why I think that is, and how these young women see "transitioning", even just partially, as a fix/better option. I really want to know why it's so important to you to "pass" as male, if you say society doesn't affect you.
    Just for the record, in general, you'll be hard pressed to find too many other groups looking as critically at events/trends in society (especially those affecting women) as older Lesbians tend to.
    Maybe we should agree to disagree.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  70. @ Germany

    I see you don't understand. I'm sorry you don't.

    OK, I'll respond to your questions, since they're slightly different than what I usually see here. But why aren't you responding to mine?

    "So here's my questions, trans-deniers. Why are you not OK with people questioning how you choose to express your discomfort with transitioning? Why do you insist on using language to describe trans people as disgusting or innately bad?"

    1. I don't know that. I've never heard that. Where are you getting that information?

    2. You see transitioning more openly talked about. That doesn't mean numbers have increased. Where are the studies that show an increase in the number of lesbians transitioning?

    3. Being trans isn't considered normal by our society yet.

    4. Who highly suspects that?

    5. I don't disagree with the main point that lesbians have traditionally been considered worthless and unable to have sex (that is changing very quickly, though). How do you explain the people who aren't attracted to women who transition? Your personal belief that FtMs are all lesbians who want to be "normal" doesn't stand up when you consider that there are huge numbers of FtMs who do not seek sexual relationships with women. Also, how do you explain that more people are transitioning now, when lesbians are more accepted than ever before?

    I can blame you for trying. First of all, you're not using logic. You're using false "statistics." I mean, you're not even giving real numbers. you're just saying words like "sky-rocketed" in order to make the number of people transitioning sound scary. You are explaining your feelings about transitioning, but you haven't made any logical points against it.

    Also instead of logic, you are making fun of how transguys look. You say we're "masquerading as men." That is bashing. Unlike the other anon, I am calling you a bigot. You need to be aware of the way you are hurting people, not helping them.

    It's fine to have questions. It's fine to not agree with it. But it's not OK to spread a message that being trans is bad, or gross, or makes people ugly.

    Another question. You seem to think that MtFs don't understand what we're doing because of our age. How old do you think is "older?" Just because you're focused on young people, it doesn't mean there aren't older people transitioning. I'm 33 and starting to transition now.

    And to reiterate, why do you assume that we're all lesbians? How do transmen who are only interested in men fit into your narrative? Do you think they're trying to be gayer? Do you think that they believe being gay is preferable to being straight in our society?

    ReplyDelete
  71. @ 2:33

    When I said that we should be thankful to women, what I mean is that no rape would be illegal if rape against women hadn't been made illegal. At no point did I or anyone else say rape against men doesn't matter.

    The UCR is bullshit. It also doesn't include anal, oral and statutory rape; incest; rape with an object, finger or fist. Which means not only does it not believe men can be raped, but it doesn't believe women can be raped in most of the cases in which they are. The problem here isn't that men are being discriminated against, the problem is that they're using an outdated definition of rape that hurts everybody (both men and women).

    Rape against women in history is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

    And to people who don't think men are considered victims, that's BS. The common rhetoric right now in the conservative media is that white men are the new minority, they're having their rights curtailed by the liberals who are putting other races, women, and gays ahead of them.

    While 300,000 women are being raped in a year, 93,000 men are raped (according to the department of justice). So while over 200,000 more women are being raped then men, you are acting like men are the bigger victims.

    Instead of trying to say men don't get enough attention, why don't we say that rape doesn't get enough attention? That we should be working to make it not OK to joke about, or do, no matter who you are or who you're victimizing.

    More info on rape statistics: http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/02/25-facts-about-rape-in-america/

    PS: People think prison rape of women is funny too. Or make pornos about it (because our society thinks women raping women is sexy)

    ReplyDelete
  72. @ Germany

    I notice you completely ignore people when they have a positive personal experience to share about transitioning.

    ReplyDelete
  73. November 13, 2012 12:04 PM

    We don't have women to thank for the outlawing of rape, men outlawed rape centuries before feminism, not to the standard it is outlawed now but our society was on its way there before feminism.

    also, regardless of the numbers, if rape against men isn't being taken as seriously, they simply aren't getting the care that female victims of rape receive.
    and yes, the UCR is bullshit, It might not be worded to your satisfaction, but at least women can be raped according to it, once again, male rape just isn't taken as seriously by our current society.

    I really cant watch TV without seeing white males being demonized, its not so much that white males are having their rights curtailed, but white males do come across as the last group of people who's demonization is socially acceptable, we just don't walk on egg shells for white males like we do most other groups and the double standards are really starting to show.

    "Instead of trying to say men don't get enough attention, why don't we say that rape doesn't get enough attention?"

    Because if men don't express their concerns their never going to be heard,
    If 50% of the attention is on female rape issues and 50% on general rape issues, male rape issues are going to be drowned out, all men are asking is that rape against males be taken as seriously as rape against females regardless of the numbers.
    I really don't see the harm of men expressing their concerns.

    Lastly I cant think of a single instance of the media perpetuating female rape of any kid as funny, maybe individuals have, and porn hardly counts, there's a fetish for everything.

    but lets be fair,humor in rape and violence against men in the media is considerably more rampant than the almost none existence of humorous rape/abuse against women in the media.

    ReplyDelete
  74. @germany

    sorry I'm going to end the conversation here just because since i have been posting as anon you are getting me confused with another anon which is in turn making me confused so maybe in the future i will use a screen name lol.

    ReplyDelete
  75. "These are a few reasons why I think it's important to look at the "trans" question critically, and I don't think this is bashing:

    1. We know the trans concept started (medical experimentation) here in Europe a bit over 100 years ago as a result of gay men desiring to be "normal"/straight.

    2. We know in the last few years, through internet, that the number of young Lesbians "transitioning" has sky-rocketed.

    3. We know minorities in society experience a desire for "normalization."

    4. We highly suspect that every gay person experiences some form of gender melancholy when coming to grips with how different they are to mainstream society.

    5. We know society gives us the message that Lesbains are basically worthless, and that 2 women can't even have sex together - who wants to be that and who can blame young Lesbians for such low self-esteem? Gay men stay gay men (society tells us Gay men have lots of sex.)

    I honestly don't think any amount of logic, etc. will stem the tide of FtM's at this point, but you can't blame us for trying. I think it will take a generation before we will see it slow down, when the next generation of Lesbians sees how today's FtM's end up looking/living and decide they don't want to be that."

    Germany

    I want to thank the individual from Germany for making a cogent argument. Sometimes we have to step back and look at centuries of history to see a pattern form. In my opinion, transgender is the epitome of myopic.

    "We know the trans concept started (medical experimentation) here in Europe a bit over 100 years ago as a result of gay men desiring to be "normal"/straight."

    In Iran, there are credible sources that state that gay men have been coerced into sex reassignment surgery. The Iranian government will help pay for sex reassignment surgery, but homosexuality is punishable by death. Transsexuals do not live pleasant live in Iran, but it's better than being executed by the state. As to lesbians, I believe that they give them so many lashes on the back for the first offense, ripping off their skin. Then, if they haven't learned their lesson, after the second or third offense, they are executed along with the gay men.

    Gender non-conforming people have existed throughout history, but on the very long time line of human history actual "transitioning" or sex reassignment surgery, puberty suppressing drugs, cross gender hormones, surgery on healthy breasts and genitals represents a tiny spot on the incredible long time of history. Testosterone was chemically synthesized around the 1940s, and testosterone for "gender dysphoria" in biological females was rarely heard of twenty years ago. "Chest masculanization" or "top surgery" in which both healthy breasts are literally surgically carved off a woman because of "gender dyshporia" is in a real sense an invention of our current time period.

    As to FTM "transitioning", the individual from Germany leaves out one important issue that I believe is central to FTM (female to male). That is, the role of internalized misogyny. Indeed, I believe that it is impossible to completely separate cultural factors that relate to the incessant devaluing of women from FTM (female to male) transitioning. I've always said that there might be a few rare individuals who are so gender dysphoric that they might benefit from surgery and hormones. However, I question 90% of what I've seen and observed, especially the increase in FTM. There are fourteen year old girls who already are talking about binders and "T" or testosterone. The various forms of mutilation of female bodies spans thousands of years. It's interesting to note that FTM increased during neo-liberalism economic policies and post modern doctrine. FTM transitioning increased as feminism declined.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Dirt, I would not have included the last photograph because I'm not into porn. Indeed, I think the entire world sees far too much porn as it is. Why include the bottom photograph? Isn't the internet saturated enough with porn? While I seriously doubt if I could ever include the bottom photo, I agree with your following comments.

    "This is Susan today, unrecognizable as Susan, but clearly still very much a woman. A woman lost, a woman in pain and a woman who epitomizes misogyny and the Violence Against Women....Susan isnt special because she is trans, she is merely another female victim of male violence, what separates her from other female victims of male violence is her utilizing the Male Medical Machine and male pornography to further apply male violence to her body."

    I think it's fascinating that we see both the following:

    With the decline in feminism around the 1990s, we see an increase in both pornography on a global scale, especially the most body punishing degrading pornography and an increase in FTM (female to male) "transitioning" (surgery on healthy breasts, testosterone, and surgery on female genitals).

    ReplyDelete
  77. "FTM transitioning increased as feminism declined."

    What decline in feminism? Feminism has evolved, but I don't see it declining.

    Here's other things you could say, using the same sentence structure:

    "FTM transitioning increased as acceptance of gay, lesbian and bi identities grew."
    "FTM transitioning increased as medicine has advanced."
    "FTM transitioning increased as information about transgender identities became easier to access."
    "FTM transitioning increased as society became more accepting of gender non-conformity."

    Or, you can position completely unrelated things:
    "FTM transitioning increased as the debt ceiling got higher"
    "FTM transitioning increased when Obama became president."
    "FTM transitioning increased as populartiy of MySpace has decreased."

    Also, how is it fair to compare the policies of Iran, where people are forced to transition, to transitioning in the US, where it's a choice? Are you saying that the US is so much better at being homophobic and misogynist than Iran that they've been able to "trick" people into transitioning?

    How is it fair to say that transitioning isn't legitimate because the medical advances in it have only happened recently? Is it fair to say that chemotherapy isn't good for treating cancer because in the majority of history, people with cancer just had to die?

    How is it fair to call female genitalia and breasts healthy, when the trans person who has them is depressed, suicidal, and unable to function in their daily life? Because this is the experience most trans people have (and yes, they do get therapy, and they do try anti-depressants).

    How is it fair for people who have no experience or credentials as a medical professional to look at people they don't know on the internet and decide that they're not truly gender dysphoric?

    Why do the people here believe they know better than the therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, families, and friends of people who transition? Why do they think they know better than those individuals themselves about what's right for themselves?

    Why do the trans-deniers offer no alternate solution to transitioning, other than to say that the people should be happy as lesbians? Why do you want to force an identity on a person?

    Do you remember coming out? Do you remember people telling you that you were sick, or going through a phase, or that being gay was a sin? I remember that. How can you experience that, and then tell other people that their identity is wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  78. "don't care about anyone's opinion on porn. That doesn't have anything to do with the trans identity. There are as varied opinions about porn in the trans community as there are in any other community.

    On an individual basis, I do NOT believe that trans identified people are more likely to be involved in porn or to promote pornography than people who don't identify as transgender. If we look at this on a macro level, it's interesting to me that we see both an explosion in pornography on a global scale, especially gonzo porn, the most degrading porn inflicted on women and FTM transitioning. Perhaps these are not related at all, but they did appear to emerge and expand at about the same time period. Moreover, I've yet to hear one prominent person from the transgender community speak out against how pornography damages women. At this time, about the only women who have spoken out against pornography are feminist like Gail Dines and lesbian feminists. Many trans identified people loath lesbian feminists with a visceral vengeance, and have no use at all for heterosexual feminists like Dines. It's a hidden secret that the transgender community is in some measure supported by the lucrative sex industry. Why would there be workshop at the Philadelphia Trans Health Conference entitled, "Transguys Are Sex Workers Too"? There are thousands of people who go to this huge event.

    http://www.trans-health.org/content/transguys-are-sex-workers-too-guided-discussion-ftmtransmales-or-considering-sex-work

    Apparently, Buck Angel believes that pornography is feminist in nature. Why else would "Feminist Porn" give Buck an award?

    "Good For Her" "Feminist Porn"

    http://www.goodforher.com/fpa_2012

    Again, individually I don't believe that trans are any more into pornography than people who don't identify as trans. However, trans as a whole seems silent on this issue. It might be true that there are as varied opinions about porn in the trans community as there are in any other community, but I have yet to witness any meaningful critique of the lucrative sex/porn industry from the trans community. Women who have courageously and eloquently spoken about pornography like Sheila Jeffreys and Andrea Dworkin are reviled and despised in the trans community.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Below is a brilliant video by Gail Dines in which she lectures for a little over an hour. The title of her lecture is "Neo-liberalism and the Defanging of Feminsim".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDcTt0emXhE

    ReplyDelete
  80. @Germany and 2:23: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus#Sex.2Fgender_controversy

    If you're not going to click it, here's a quote:

    He was described as having been "delighted to be called the mistress, the wife, the queen of Hierocles" and was said to have offered vast sums of money to any physician who could equip him with female genitalia.

    Just because there are now surgical techniques available now which aid physical transition doesn't mean people didn't want/need/try it in the far past.

    ReplyDelete
  81. I'm trans and I'm not silent on the issue of porn!
    porn is awesome.
    seriously though, women make the choice to go into pornography, they don't have to like their job, injury and illness is a risk in many jobs, not just pornography, in fact its some peoples jobs to put themselves in physical danger, people being hurt and not enjoying their work, or findig their work degrading, doesn't make it inherently evil or wrong, its called work, I understand that it is a fairly new concept to the majority of women, but men have been doing it for centuries. (I Kid)
    The anti-porn people don't dislike it because they are worried about women's safety, if they do, they are hypocrites that need to add a few thousand other occupations on to their anti-list.
    They hate it because they believe lustful sex outside of a loving relationship is degrading to women.

    These women tend to believe that no women would take up sex work if she had an option (which is BS)

    They believe that women are children that cant make their own decisions unlike men, who are always expected to take responsibility for their actions.

    As long as women have a choice in the matter, women will always seek out sex work, its the oldest profession after all.


    So I am really not concerned about trans people not speaking out against pornography, women make the choice to go in to pornography, They might not like it, but they don't have to like their job, if they find it traumatizing, they can quit, but if they like the cash and the lifestyle, they might find it worth their while.
    If the majority of the trans community is against taking away women's rights to work in the sex industry, then I would consider that a good thing.




    ReplyDelete
  82. @ 3:32 PM

    "Many trans identified people loath lesbian feminists with a visceral vengeance, and have no use at all for heterosexual feminists."

    Self-identified feminists on this site describe transgender people as disgusting, ugly, strange, fuck toys for men, perverts, delusional, and more. Who do you think is to blame for the fact that trans people don't like them?

    There are lots of feminists who don't have a problem with porn. So I'm not sure what your point is by saying that you've never seen a trans person who has a problem with porn. And there are plenty of feminists who don't like Andrea Dworkin. Really, there are just a lot of people who don't like her. So, I don't know what that specifically has to do with trans people either.

    ReplyDelete
  83. As a trans person, I do have problems with the porn industry, but not with porn in general. I don't consider this a transgender issue, however, so the back and forth about it on this site doesn't interest me.

    I'm interested in pointing out how the trans-bashers here are hurting people, and how flawed their logic is.

    ReplyDelete
  84. One of the main concerns people seem to have here is that young people are jumping into the decision of transitioning (apparently because young people don't have the ability to realize their identity? Which I suppose must invalidate kids who come out as gay too). I keep seeing people complain about the great number of young "women" who want to transition.

    There aren't a lot of studies done on the ages of people who identify as transgender.

    But in the studies that have been done, most people who identify as transgendered, or have transitioned, are in their 40s (or transition in their 40s). It's really hard to find the original studies with this info online, but here are some references:

    http://www.umass.edu/stonewall/uploads/listWidget/11925/tic.pdf

    http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6025192

    And one study about health care which references ages:

    http://transequality.org/PDFs/NTDSReportonHealth_final.pdf

    Only 19% of the respondents are under 25. The sample size for the survey was 6,450 people.

    Unrelated, but I just know someone will point it out: it talks about how suicide rates are higher among transgender people. But please note: less than half the respondents in the survey have had surgery. It is not making a connection between surgery and suicide.

    It's reasonable to assume that there are more young people who want to transition than there were even a few years ago. There are more people of all ages who want to transition than ever before. This is because transitioning is becoming more acceptable, transgender people are more likely to be protected in the work place and school, and access to health care for transgender people is improving.

    ReplyDelete
  85. A common battle cry from groups that want to keep a minority oppressed is "won't you think of the children?"

    Trans-bashers say they are just trying to help the young people who are hurting themselves by transitioning.

    Homophobes say they are just trying to protect children from a dangerous and deviant lifestyle.

    Segregationists said that black kids wouldn't be able to compete with white kids in school, so it was unfair to make them attend the same school.

    Those opposed to women's suffrage said that women wouldn't be able to stay home and take care of the children if they were involved in politics.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Feminists say they are just trying to protect young girls from FGM.

      Education reform activists say they are just trying to ensure children will grow up to meet their full potential.

      Yep, clearly anyone who says that they're trying to help children is evil. This is a really logical argument.

      Delete
  86. Trans-deniers like to pretend they're trying to prevent people from doing something they're regret. The number of people who regret sex-reassignment surgery is less than 2%, however. And that regret may have more to do with the fact that society is not accepting of transgender people, and the challenges related to health care, employment, and harassment.

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/commentary/2007/03/13/transsexual-regret

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12856892

    There really are people who regret having the surgery at all, and decide to transition back to their birth gender. Those people do need more support from the trans community. But that is not a reason to stop all sex-reassignment surgery.

    Also, to prevent the problem of regret in the very, very small numbers of people who experience it, there needs to be better health care provided to transgender people. Good gender therapists will tell people they don't have to have sex-reassignment, that there are many ways to transition. They will explain that a lot of transgender people never have surgery, or might have top surgery but not bottom surgery. There are a lot of options.

    Bad medical professionals will jump to the conclusion that sex-reassignment surgery should be done with little therapy, no attempt to deal with depression first, and little preparation for the transgendered person. These kinds of medical professionals fail because transgender health care is not well understood. And some transgender people go to these people because those trained to handle gender issues might not exist where they live, or they might not be able to afford to see them.

    Still, despite these problems, the rate at people regret transitioning is less than 2%. So while there are improvements that need to be made, none of this is an argument for not having sex-reassignment at all.

    The way to prevent regret from sex-reassignment surgery is to encourage open and supportive dialogue about transitioning. Not to try to scare people out of it.

    ReplyDelete
  87. The entire anti-porn feminist community, made up of shrill ideologues like Gail Dines, Bob Jensen, Sheila Jeffreys and Lierre Keith, are rabid transphobes. They make no secret of their seething hatred for trans people and their desire to see our community put out of existence. Is it any wonder that the trans community is not a fan of their work, and tends to align with the pro-sex/sex-positive feminists who are trans-positive and support sex worker rights? Radical feminism and lesbian feminism are throw-backs that are an embarassment to feminism as a whole. Luckily, these movements have been total failures, but sadly there are a few assholes hanging in there to satisfy their need to hate on trans folks and sex workers and uphold their prudish, white, anti-sex mentality.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anon@ Nov.13 4:00,
    I can't count the times I've said things like: "If only we had wings we could get there on time, if we had eyes on the back of our heads...if I could get a brain transplant, etc." It's not to be taken too seriously.
    But if you want to nit-pick, there is no proof he ever said that anyway, or in what context, etc. We'll probably never know. Maybe he wanted both male and female genitalia, the "quote" says nothing about removal of his male genitalia, so I don't really see a "trans" connection.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anon@Nov 13 11:54,
    I will answer, but admit don't know exactly what a "trans denier" is. I'm OK with people expressing their discomfort, from which ever angle.
    I use the word "masquerade" because I think it's appropriate. I don't take it personally when a Lesbian says she's transitioning to FtM "to correct a birth defect".
    By "older" I mean roughly 40+.
    1. No excuse for not checking that out.
    2. I doubt I will look for studies - I look at my circle of friends (6 "trans" now) and the bigger Lesbian community and compare to 10 years ago.
    3. You are not transitioning to trans are you? You want to be either male or female.
    4. I for one, no one can ask every Gay person.
    5. I don't know what testosterone does to women's brains. I said a few years ago that I suspected most "trans" will end up in relationships with eachother - 4 of my 6 "trans" friends are paired with eachother, it's not unusual.

    We will have to meet again in 10, 15, 20 years to see the outcome. I hope all works out for everyone, and that there will be advances in medicine to help.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  90. @ Germany

    A trans-denier is someone who believes that transgender people don't really identify as a different gender than they were born, and who tries to convince people that transitioning is inherently negative.

    If a person say's they're transitioning because they feel that their birth sex is a "birth defect," that has nothing to do with you. You shouldn't take it personally. When you say that I am "masquerading" as a man, you are being dismissive of my gender identity and my life choices. That is offensive.

    1. I'm not making an excuse for not checking it out. I'm asking where you got the info, because I can't find anything about it. Help me out here, or else I can only assume you're making stuff up.

    2. So you're basing generalizations about everyone on your personal experiences? Here's my personal experience: since I made my first lesbian friend 19 years ago, only one woman I know personally has transitioned. That happened over ten years ago. Now I'm transitioning. Based on my experience, there has been no increase in the number of people transitioning. When I look at the "bigger lesbian community" I see no more people transitioning than before.

    3. Actually, a lot of transgender people don't want to be either male or female. I identify as genderqueer. I feel about 75% male. I am taking testosterone and getting top surgery, but I'm not getting bottom surgery or changing my sex legally. Transgender is not as black and white as you think it is.

    4. OK, so YOU highly suspect that all gays experience some form of gender melancholy. That's a lot different than saying "we."

    5. You could read up on the effects of testosterone. The information is out there. If you don't want to read up on it, then you could admit that you are content discriminating against transgender people based on your own personal dislike. I don't know what your comment about trans folks pairing up has to do with anything. Of course that happens. They have shared experiences, travel in the same circles, go to the same support groups.

    If you hope it works out for everyone, why are you here trying to tell people why you think transitioning is bad?

    ReplyDelete
  91. PS to Germany:

    @7:11 PM yesterday has links to references about the ages of FtMs. In case you'd like to see some actual evidence, instead of just your gut feelings based on what you've seen on youtube.

    ReplyDelete
  92. There's an idea around here that people transition in order to be treated like a "normal" man. An idea that they are striving for a normalized life and giving up on the struggle for equal rights.

    That idea doesn't pan out.

    Transgendered people face discrimination and violence both before and after sex-reassignment surgery. You can expect to face even more discrimination if you do not identify as just male or female (as many transgender people do). The rhetoric of transitioning as an attempt to reject gender non-conformity doesn't make sense.

    Read more: http://inourwordsblog.com/2012/05/03/genderqueers-more-likely-to-experience-discrimination-violence-than-trans-people/

    ReplyDelete
  93. Anon@ 12:21,

    1) Have you never heard of Lili Elbe? That was one of the first sex-change patients. Look up names like Magnus Hirschfeld. I actually know of 2 sociology students who have recently written thesises (they were in the archives where the original Dr.'s notes, etc. are -of course in German- of this pioneering of the sex-change experimentation) about how "trans" comes from the medical community. I don't know how much of those notes have been translated into English, but it's just a question of time. I would say German Academics look at all things critically.

    2)Let's just take the Berlin drag kingz as an example. It started out as just basic Drag, then after a year or so, several members got too caught up in it, and it just spun out of control, and almost all became "trans". I think at one point they all were identiying as something other than Lesbian, but fortunately not all took "t".

    3)I don't know how we got from my pointing out that minorities in society have a desire for "normalization" to your fractionalized gender make-up.

    4) Do you disagree with my hypothesis that probably all gay people experience some kind of gender meloncholy when first coming to grips with how different they are from mainstream society?

    5) No one knows what the long-term effects of taking testosterone will be on the female body, now the medical community has a chance to find out with all these willing test subjects. That's why I'm hoping it all works out, and in 10,15,20 years everyone will still be OK. Because I think there's no stopping them by using logic or so. The next generation will have to see how they end up living/looking.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  94. Anon@12:53,
    Thanks for that tip, very interested in such info.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  95. @ Germany

    1) I haven't heard those names. I'll look them up. (PS: I would say most academics look at things critically).

    2) I'm not familiar with the Berlin drag kingz, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. That's something else I'll have to look up and get back to you on.

    3) What I'm trying to tell you is that transgender people aren't just looking to be "normal" males or females. Your original comment about normalization led me to believe that you think lesbians desire to become straight men, in order to be "normal." But that's not what transgender people are doing. Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say?

    4) I do disagree with that. If we're basing things off personal experience (as you seem to do), then none of my gay friends have ever felt anything but 100% male or 100% female. They might have masculine or feminine traits, but they have no memories of ever questioning what gender they should be.

    5) I still don't understand why you seem to be arguing agasint ttansitioning if you don't think you can stop it, and if you don't think we can know how it's going to work out for a couple of decades.

    ReplyDelete
  96. I just came out to my coworkers about being trans, and did a power point presentation about what transitioning may include, and about my own experiences. It was awesome. People were so kind and compassionate. Thank god that the people who really matter in my life are decent, empathetic people.

    ReplyDelete
  97. I'm trans and I'm not into porn. It's just not my thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with porn. I mean if people want to be porn stars and whatnot then so be it. I know plenty of women who sit and watch porn. I know straight couples who watch porn and so on. I don't look down on any porn stars.

    ReplyDelete
  98. "Actually, a lot of transgender people don't want to be either male or female. I identify as genderqueer. I feel about 75% male. I am taking testosterone and getting top surgery, but I'm not getting bottom surgery or changing my sex legally. Transgender is not as black and white as you think it is."

    Yes, I know that some people who identify as genderqueer are more fluid in their gender. My posts and this blog as I understand it deals mainly with FTM (female to male) transsexuals. Gender fluidity doesn't seem to apply to transmen who get "chest masculanizaiton" or "top surgery", take testosterone for years, demand on being constantly referred to as "he" or "him", and legally change their sex. When I say that FTM transitioning erases female identity, this appears to be true for most FTM transsexuals. For FTM transsexuals who go through complete "transitioning" (surgery, hormones, etc) and legally change their sex, for all practical purposes, it seems like a black and white issue. That is, they state they are male, and they invest a lot in being identified as male. If a FTM transsexual felt about 75% male as this genderqueer individual, this would mean that 25% of the transman was something other than male. If transmen are 25% of anything other than male, then they certainly shouldn't be allowed to legally change their sex? Of course, they can never change their genes and require testosterone for life in order to appear male on the outside, but we are told that doesn't matter. I know that people say that FTM transsexuals are really males trapped in a woman's body, and that gender identity is supposed to be innate, but when pressed even some members of the trans community admit that culture and peer pressure can play a role in FTM transitioning.

    ReplyDelete
  99. "I identify as genderqueer. I feel about 75% male."

    How can a genetic female be 75% male? I'm talking about females not intersex. Doesn't this person mean that they feel the gender based stereotypical view of what society says is masculinity and femininity?

    "I feel about 75% male. I am taking testosterone and getting top surgery."

    It's my understanding that surgeons take a scalpel and remove both healthy breasts on females based on "gender dysphoria". In industrialized countries, there usually has to be a letter from a psychiatrist or therapist stating that the person has gender dysphoria or GID. I wasn't aware that they placed a percentage number on "gender dysphoria". Do psychiatrists and therapists place a percentage on something as culturally sensitive as gender identity? If it's true that this person feels 75% male, does this mean that the person who posted this comment will only get 75% of her female breasts removed? Or, take enough testosterone to only appear 75% male?

    As to bottom surgery, a lot of transmen who have legally changed their sex don't have bottom surgery because of the cost, multiple surgeries, and pain involved, or put it off for years.

    "Actually, a lot of transgender people don't want to be either male or female."

    If a human is born female (XX), what is so shameful, disgusting, and horrific about being a gender non-conforming female? I'm talking about genetic females not intersex individuals. I know that genderqueer folks like to trot out intersex anytime someone points out the fact that females really do exist. Or, does this individual really believe that there is no such thing as female? I guess this person was cloned somewhere in a lab. Even if it were possible to clone humans, is this something we want to do?

    I am 100% female and gender non-conforming. I don't identify as either trans or genderqueer. I have no desire to surgically alter my exquisitely beautiful female genitals or breasts. I have no interest in taking an exogenous source of testosterone. I don't need surgery or synthetically produced chemicals to make me feel good about myself. By the way, the female body naturally produces tiny amounts of testosterone. I don't know if the human female body was designed for large doses of synthetically created testosterone.

    I don't mean to sound disrespectful to this queer identified person because there are certain elements of genderqueer that I understand and appreciate. Why do people think it is so repulsive to be called female or woman? What is so ugly and offensive about women's bodies that they have to be surgically altered to appear male? This makes no sense to me. It's possible to cast off tradtional sex roles of what society says is masculine and feminine without mutilating the female body in the process.

    Not all queer identified people want to "transition" (hormones, surgery). I don't see queer and trans as exactly the same thing.

    ReplyDelete
  100. "Radical feminism and lesbian feminism are throw-backs that are an embarassment to feminism as a whole. Luckily, these movements have been total failures, but sadly there are a few assholes hanging in there to satisfy their need to hate on trans folks and sex workers and uphold their prudish, white, anti-sex mentality."

    "Luckily, these movements have been total failures".....

    I knew that soon or later they would get around to bashing the nasty feminists. Let's briefly talk about the "total failures" and what they have and have not produced. Most of the major women's rights legislation was enacted before trans became a trend starting around the 1990s. Indeed, trans wasn't around when any of the following happened. Second wave so-called "radical feminists" and lesbian feminist were very active in fighting for women's reproductive health care, equal pay, and other issues. This was before "chest masculanization" and puberty suppressing drugs.

    ***BELOW IS A LIST OF WHAT TRANS HAS NOT DONE FOR WOMEN

    (1.) Voting rights:

    Senaca Falls Women's Rights Convention 1848

    These women were called suffragettes not transwomen. There is no reference in any historic document of Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia Mott, or Carrie Chapman Cat ever having penises. No, they weren't transwomen. Sorry, the word "trans" didn't exist then.

    19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution 1920

    (2.) Reproductive rights:
    Margaret Sanger wasn't a transwoman
    Griswold v. Connecticut Supreme Court ruling of 1965
    Roe v. Wade 1973

    (3.) Equal pay legislation:

    *Equal Pay Act of 1963
    *Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964
    *Schultz v. Wheaton Glass Co. 1970
    *Corning Glass Works v. Brennan 1974
    *Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act 2009 (By the way, Lilly Ledbetter is a grandmother. She isn't trans.

    ReplyDelete
  101. "Radical feminism and lesbian feminism are throw-backs that are an embarassment to feminism as a whole."

    ****ERASING FEMALE IDENTITY, SURGICALLY SCRAPING AWAY HEALTHY BREASTS, FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, A LIFE TIME OF CROSS GENDER HORMONES. If this is feminism, God (Goddess) help us all.

    (1.) Puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dyshphoria" in pre-teens and adolescents.

    If cross gender hormones are given immediately after puberty suppressing drugs, future fertility can be compromised. The use of puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dysphoria" is relatively new, and I don't even know if their use for "gender dysphoric" pre-teens is approved by the FDA. The standard trans talking point is that these drugs "buy time" for "transgender" teens to decide if they want to "transition" later.

    This assumes that (a.) the time to decide is the same for all children (b.) and that parental or peer influences play no role in the decision to transition.

    Whether they admit it or not, one of the major advantages of puberty suppressing drugs is that there is less healthy tissue to surgically remove later on. That is, boys don't develop masculine characteristics, and girls don't develop breasts and feminine characteristics.

    (2.) Slapping three, four, five, or six year old kids with a label of "gender identity disorder" or "trans".

    If parents really feel uncomfortable with a little tomboy girl (think butch lesbian) or effeminate boy (think limp wristed fag), then they can drag the poor kid from therapist to therapist until they finally find some trans friendly therapist who will apply the label of "gender identity disorder". Once the kid starts puberty, if they have enough money, they can once again drag the poor kid to a doctor who will prescribe puberty suppressing drugs. Common sense tells us that the diagnosis of GID in children is problematic, but we are called horrid transphobic morons for saying otherwise.

    "Greg & Jeanette are the proud parents of four children, Arial age 16, identical twins Sander & Griffen age 14, and Jazz age 11, who is their transangel. Jazz was born with Gender Identity Disorder, and diagnosed at age 3."

    http://www.transkidspurplerainbow.org/who-we-are/

    How do you diagnose a child at age three?


    ReplyDelete
  102. "Radical feminism and lesbian feminism are throw-backs that are an embarassment to feminism as a whole.

    I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT SO RADICALLY ALTERS HEALTHY FEMALE BREASTS, GENITALS, AND FEMALE REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEMS THAN FTM (FEMALE TO MALE) TRANSITIONING. IF THIS FALLS UNDER THE CATEGORY OF "FEMINISM", THEN PERHAPS WE ARE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

    (3.) "Chest masculanization" or "top surgery" in which both healthy female breasts are surgically carved off women.

    Women have been getting their breasts enhanced for decades. However, "chest masculanization" in which the idea is to surgically scrape away all traces of femininity or the female is something new. Upon careful scrutiny "chest masculanization" is essentially elective mastectomies in healthy women. Isn't it fascinating that when carrying out what are essentially elective mastectomies, the word "breast" is never used although it's clearly female breasts that are being surgically removed from women. The reason both healthy breasts are removed is "gender dysphoria" which, by the way, even some members of the trans community admit can be influenced by cultural and peer influences. Yes, when pressed, they admit this.

    (4.) As to FTM (female to male), a life time of "T" or testosterone is required in order to keep a masculine appearance.

    A life time of exogenous testosterone no doubt impacts female reproductive systems. For example, vaginal dryness and atrophy is almost a given.. Besides PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) which can be an issue for transmen who still keep their ovaries and uterus, elevated lipid profiles, and abnormal liver function, there can be other side effects. Is the human female body really designed for a life time of exogenous chemically synthesized testosterone? We don't see this in primates.

    (5.) Because of PCOS, some physicians recommend removal of uterus and ovaries within five years of starting testosterone.

    These women are sterilized based on something called "gender dysphoria".

    (6.) Phalloplasty often requires multiply surgeries, is painful by any standard, is expensive provided women find a good surgeon, and can never produce a penis comparably to a penis on a biological male. Depending upon the type of surgery and surgeon's skill, some sensation can be lost.

    I hope to holy hell people are right about FTM (female to male) "transitioning". If we look at the extent to which healthy female breasts, genitals, and reproductive systems are radically altered, if we are wrong, it looks like something we have seen before. It has an all too familiar appearance of female genital mutilation. When I look at the scars from "chest masculanization" or look at phalloplasty in a biological female, something just doesn't feel right to me. Why do people think the various forms of mutilation of the female body is something new

    ReplyDelete
  103. @ 10:00 PM

    You are incorrect. Genderfulid people do sometimes get surgery, and do sometimes prefer to e called by male pronouns. They may even legally change their sex.

    OF course people should be allowed to legally change their sex to something that fits better with their gender identity. Like I said, I identify as 75% male. I'm getting top surgery, and if I want to legally change my gender, I can.

    I am the person who said that culture and peers affect transitioning. I wasn't pressured. It's just a fact of life that everything we do is affected by culture and peers. I really with people would stop paraphrasing me incorrectly.

    ReplyDelete
  104. @ 10:05 PM

    There's a lot you don't know about gender identity now. Letters are no longer required in most of the US for testosterone or surgery. And therapists don't tell you that you're a certain percentage of male or female. I just choose to explain my genderqueer identity to people that way.

    I am having chest reconstruction surgery. The surgeon I'm working with leaves some of the beast tissue because biologic males have breast tissue too. But no, I am not asking him to remove 75% of my breasts. That is stupid, and you know it is. I prefer to present as male most of the time, and my breasts are uncomfortable for me, so I am getting a masculinized chest.

    There's nothing shameful about being a gender non-conforming female. A lot of people are. Transgender people don't want to be that. Because it's not right for them.

    Of course female exists. What are you even talking about? I never said that there was no such thing as female.

    That's great that you are happy as a woman! I'm happy for you! Why can't you be happy for people who have a different identity? We don't want you to change. We're not questioning your identity.

    You're right, you don't know if the female body was designed for large doses of testosterone. But you know who does know about that? Doctors. The people who trans people go to for help with this. We're not asking you.

    I and most transgender people don't think female bodies are repulsive. I'm physically attracted to women. A lot of trans people are. Trans people who don't identify as female just don't want to have female bodies for themselves.

    It's true, most queer identified people don't want to transition. Transgender-even genderqueer-people do not base their desire to transition on their sexual orientation.

    You seem to be arguing with an imaginary person who is telling you that all people should transition. I don't really understand where you're coming from.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "We're not questioning your identity."

      Actually, you are. Trans activists assert that there is some kind of a thing called a "gender identity" and that everyone has one. I don't have a "gender identity" and I don't think any such thing exists. Because I say this, I am forcibly assigned the "gender identity" of "cis", even though "cis" does not accurately describe me. A "cis" person is a person whose "gender identity" lines up with their birth sex, but since I do not have a "gender identity", it cannot line up with anything. Nor am I "neutrois" or anything like that, since that means that I have a "gender identity" which is is neutral, which is also incorrect.

      Gender isn't an identity, it's not intrinsic, it's not internal. It's an externally-imposed system. The problem with believing that gender is an internal/inherent "identity" and not an externally-imposed system is this: It implies that the reason "cis" women tend to wear heels, skirts, choose low-paying professions, etc., is because these are natural markers of the cis woman gender identity, and this is just how cis women naturally are. Socially-constructed differences between men and women, including those differences that harm women, are now just a result of our inherent identities instead of discrimination based on our biology. And if this is all just a result of people expressing who they really are, sexism isn't a problem to be fixed, just the natural order.

      When trans people assert the existence of a universal "gender identity", you are not only invalidating my identity, you're propping up sexist systems that harm women. This is why, even if you came up with a word that meant "has no gender identity at all", I could still not use it in good conscience.

      Delete
  105. @ 10:48 PM

    So, your point is that because there were no trans people who existed in 1848, and because many people who exist who have worked on rights for women aren't trans that... what? What the fuck is your point?

    You know what, there were no lesbians in 1848 either (because that identity didn't exist until later, just like trans). And plenty of the people you listed weren't lesbians. So does that mean... that lesbians are bad for women? Is that the kind of point you're trying to make?

    By the way, trans people can be grandmothers too.

    @ 10:56 PM

    ****THE RIGHT TO IDENTIFY OUR OWN GENDER, THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WITH OUR DOCTORS WHAT TO DO WITH OUR OWN BODIES***

    I can type things in all caps too.

    WE'RE HERE, WE'RE GENDERQUEER, AND WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

    @ 10:57 PM

    Do you know why the results of sex reassignment surgery doens't look right to you? Because it's not right FOR YOU. That doens't mean it's not right for other people.

    Nobody thinks that mutiliation of the female body is new. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID ON THIS BLOG THAT MUTILATION OF THE FEMALE IS NEW.

    however.

    SEX-REASSIGNMENT IS NOT FEMALE MUTILATION.

    That's what we're saying.

    Who the fuck are you people talking to? You just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over. When people reply to you, you don't acknowlege them. You just then repeat stuff again in all caps. Because apparently, that's going to help your case?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Oh yeah, point by your painfully stupid points:

    1: I still refrain from talking about stuff related to kids. I don't know what it's like for them, and there are a lot of people who know a lot better. I can say for certain that you're not one of those people.

    2: Parents are more likely to accept a gay child than a transgender child. I keep meeting more and more kids who say that when they try to tell their parents they're transgender, their parents try to convince them that they're actually gay.

    I don't know how you diagnose a child at age three. Why don't you ask a fucking doctor.

    3: AGAIN, NOBODY PRESSED ME TO SAY THAT WE ARE INFLUENCED BY CULTURE AND PEERS. We are all influenced by culture and peers in everything we do. Read my god damn words. Don't just make up what you want to see.

    Breast is said constantly during the chest reconstruction process. My surgeon said it every couple of minutes when I talked to him. My GP and therapist use the word whenever we talk about it. At least stop making shit up when you reiterate your same tired points.

    4: A lot of changes on T are permanent, and some people stop taking it after they have a deeper voice, facial hair, or other changes they desire. Some people don't mind being on it their whole lives. Vaginal dryness and atrophy is not a given, and easy to avoid. Most other side effects can also be easily avoided, through diet and other healthy lifestyle changes (like quitting smoking).

    What the fuck does primates have to do with anything? You know what else we don't see in primates? Hospitals. Doctors. Medicine. Schools. Repercussions for rape and murder.

    5: Some physicians might recommend that in very specific situations. However, PCOS can be treated in transmen without a total hysterectomy. Just like all the many, many more women who have PCOS.

    6: Yes, those are true things. People who get bottom surgery are aware of that, and make a choice to do it. So why are you butting in on their choice about their bodies?

    To address your offensively stated concern (sex reassignment surgery is not the same as genital mutilation), sex reassignment surgery has been going on for decades and has less than a 2% rate of regret. There are ways we could reduce that number further, by educating medical professionals better, and getting better mental health care for transgendered individuals. We are only going to see that rate of regret reduce with time, not increase.

    ReplyDelete
  107. I want to briefly reiterate

    I am the person who said that culture and peers affect transitioning. I wasn't pressured into saying it. It's just a fact of life that everything we do is affected by culture and peers. I really with people would stop paraphrasing me incorrectly.

    So again:
    CULTURE, FAMILY, AND PEERS AFFECT EVERYTHING WE DO. THEY HAVE INFLUENCE ON ALL ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES.

    This is not unique to the desire to transition.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anon Nov. 14 @2:10 -
    By "gender melancholy" I don't mean most gay people actually feel like the opposite gender. I mean they at some level wish for/long for/imagine what that would be like when first coming to grips with being gay and how different from mainstream society they are.
    Germany

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anon Nov.15 @1:05,
    What? No Lesbians before 1848? What about Sappho and the Island of Lesbos and all?
    Seriously, we find all through history evidence of Gay people.
    What is a "trans identity" anyway?
    Greece (just kidding it's Germany)

    ReplyDelete
  110. Hi Germany,

    I think you might like this article.

    http://theleftsideoffeminism.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/patriarchy-and-the-gender-concept/#comments

    ReplyDelete
  111. @ Germany

    First, I just want to say, I've really come to appreciate dialogue with you. I still think you're unfair to trans people, but at least you're intelligent.

    OK, now for gays through history. This has been discussed a little on this blog, but Dirt has removed a lot of posts about it, because she calls it "revisionist history."

    There is plenty of evidence of same-sex relationships through history. But gay and lesbian as identities didn't come into existence until this last century. The GBL community has redefined people from the past as gays or lesbians in order to create a narrative of a gay history (for example, Sappho, where we get the word lesbian from, but who did not identify as a homosexual because the idea of a sexual orientation didn't exist).

    There is also evidence of people throughout history who rejected the sex they were born as, and did whatever was in their power to live lives as the opposite sex. However, "transsexual" is a concept that also came into existence only in the last century. Just like the GBL community, the trans community is now looking back on history and defining individuals as transgender in order to develop a history we can relate to.

    Do you really not know what the trans identity is? That's a really important thing when you're on a blog complaining about transitioning. It's an umbrella term for a lot of different gender non-conforming identities. Learn more: http://www.critpath.org/thac/transidentity.html

    If gender melancholy is people wondering what being the opposite gender would be like, then I would say that most humans experience it. Many of my very straight, very non-transgender friends have admitted to me that they would like to know what it's like to have the body/lives/clothes of the opposite gender.

    ReplyDelete
  112. The idea that sex reconstruction surgery removes "healthy" breasts/ovaries/etc or changes "healthy" genitalia is faulty.

    If your breasts, genitalia, or female organs are contributing to a state of mental and emotional illness, then they are not healthy.

    Most trans people work with medical professionals to ensure that their issues aren't just a matter of simple depression, anxiety, or poor self-image. People who get surgery are unhealthy, and the parts that are operated on contribute to that state. Therefore, those body parts are not healthy for them.

    Please remember that this does not apply to the majority of people. Transgender people are still a small minority. No one is suggesting that all women have their breasts removed, or otherwise have sex-reassignment surgery.

    ReplyDelete
  113. November 15, 2012 10:44 AM

    First I would like to point out I am trans masculine.
    With that out of the way, I would like to disagree with your statement that,

    "If your breasts, genitalia, or female organs are contributing to a state of mental and emotional illness, then they are not healthy."

    This is an example conflicting opinions in definition which causes people to talk past each other.
    When they describe healthy tissue, I think they just mean the tissue is healthy, not so much how it might effect someone psychologically.
    And I agree, healthy breasts and genitals are healthy regardless of what someone feels about them.

    The problem occurs when these organs conflict with another perfectly healthy mental trait that is shared by most people, which is how people register social information from one sex or another.
    Humans are social creatures and it is in human nature to take social information from other members of our society and apply this information to ourselves in order to improve our social status, humans take this information from both sexes, but when it comes to personal presentation, we take much of this information from our own sex, males look to higher ranking males and will mimic their behavior from a very early age and the same for females. This is why celebrity advertising is so prominent, media researchers understand human instincts better than anyone else.

    Some people take this information more equally from both sexes and some from the entirely opposite sex (humans are incredibly skilled at recognizing males from females compared to some other creatures and less skilled than others)

    picture a young boy, he migrates to majority female groups, he begins to speak like and act like them as he processes more social information from them, and he becomes an "effeminate" male, very much the same way all the other girls are swapping social information.

    Now picture a male in his group with other males who he takes his social information from, he sees they all have flat chests, but he was born with extra female breast tissue (gynecomastia) he is likely to feel uncomfortable with his breasts and so might consider surgery to remove/reduce his breast tissue.
    Many FTMs feel very similarly, the instinct they have works exactly as it should, however its an instinct that evolved to benefit males, not females.

    These instincts don't take up the entirety of what transgenderism is, but its probably one of the most visible and controversial elements, it is also shared by butch women and effeminate men, this doesn't mean effeminate men want breasts and butch women want flat chests (though some do) It doesn't always go down to the flesh, sometimes it is a case of just social presentation and other times it is body image.

    People with social disorders like autism, sometimes will not share these instincts, rather than look to our society for influences on how they could dress for example, they might choose their clothing because of how it feels or what color it is, as we all would if we were exempt from these social instincts.


    To reiterate, It isn't that the tissue is unhealthy, or even that our instincts and drives are unhealthy, in most cases, they have developed exactly as they should have for the intended sex, however since these masculine and feminine traits sometimes overlap, it causes a personal conflict.

    Its really a complex topic that I cant explain in full here, but I hope I summarized it effectively.

    ReplyDelete
  114. @ 1:11 PM

    I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said. It is a very complex issue, and I think the subtlety of what you've said will be lost on most people.

    However, I still think it's fair to say that sexual characteristics which are not congruent with one's gender identity have the potential to be unhealthy. Health is more than the physical state of tissue, after all. A person can be physically perfectly healthy, but still suffer from emotional and psychological damage (which is not always measurable). Health is a much bigger picture than the state of one part of a person's body.

    The common narrative of trans-deniers on this blog is that we should look to the physical state of breasts, ovaries, etc and decide health from that. I'm saying that a more holistic view needs to be taken.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Great post! Keep up with the great work you're doing with your blog. Don't let these hateful comments let you down. You are helping many women with your words. Thank you, Dirt!

    ReplyDelete
  116. @ 4:00 PM

    Who exactly is Dirt helping?

    ReplyDelete
  117. November 15, 2012 3:47 PM

    I personally understand 100% what you are saying, I'm just saying that The definitions are slightly different which might cause you and the "deniers" to talk past each other rather than with one another.

    ReplyDelete
  118. @ 4:28 PM

    To be perfectly honest, I don't expect most of the trans-deniers to do anything but talk past me (or ignore me completely). There are exceptions, some people who seem interested in actual discourse. But for the most part, there's a couple of people who just post the same complaints about transitioning, over and over, with little variation. And they don't acknowledge the people who disagree (except, sometimes, to make fun of that person, or take something they said out of context).

    It's not for the benefit of those spammers that I made that comment. It's more for the benefit of people who are willing to accept that a transgender person may not be healthy if they can't have access to sex-reassignment surgery.

    ReplyDelete
  119. The thing that really gives me a belly laugh is that all the people decrying trans as the erasure of female have no response for male to female, other than that they must be perverts or worse. If female was so bad, and we really were dead set on "erasing" it, why would anyone want to give up the golden goose and be female?

    The other thing that makes me laugh is the assumption that all FTM people would be happier being what they "are", lesbian. Who says they're all lesbians? It's hilarious!

    I get a special laugh from the special person who always copypastes the genital mutilation, one case of a trans person attacking someone in a bathroom etc, ad nauseum. I'm not sure that person would be able to string two sentences together without a mouse and wikipedia at their side.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I get a special laugh from the special person who always copypastes the genital mutilation, one case of a trans person attacking someone in a bathroom etc, ad nauseum."

      A person's statistical likelihood of committing violent crime is drastically affected by their biological sex. Male people commit violent crime (murder, rape, assault) at nearly ten times the rate of female people. This does not change post-transition. As a group, MTFs are statistically just as violent as "cis males".

      http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885#pone.0016885.s002

      Gendered bathrooms were invented to protect women from predatory males. MTFs are not any less predatory than other males. Either you believe the risk of general bathroom assaults by males is negligible, in which case we should stop segregating bathrooms by sex at all, or you believe male violence is an actual problem, in which case there's no justification for inviting MTFs into them.

      BTW, MTFs have committed many acts of violence against biological women purely because they are biological women. How about that recent case where an MTF and her boyfriend abducted a pregnant woman because they wanted to take her baby and raise it themselves. Using a woman as your breeding machine, how is that for a brutal hate crime? Meanwhile, I've yet to hear of a single case of a biological woman attacking an MTF for any reason, let alone as a crime motivated by her transness.

      I don't know why you think male violence against women is funny. It's pretty fucked up.

      Delete
  120. The thing that really gives me a belly laugh is that all the people decrying trans as the erasure of female have no response for male to female, other than that they must be perverts or worse. If female was so bad, and we really were dead set on "erasing" it, why would anyone want to give up the golden goose and be female?

    The other thing that makes me laugh is the assumption that all FTM people would be happier being what they "are", lesbian. Who says they're all lesbians? It's hilarious!

    I get a special laugh from the special person who always copypastes the genital mutilation, one case of a trans person attacking someone in a bathroom etc, ad nauseum. I'm not sure that person would be able to string two sentences together without a mouse and wikipedia at their side.

    ReplyDelete
  121. @avid reader

    No society has ever tried to eradicate females.
    Females have always been the single most protected members of every society, when a tribe defeated another tribe, they might kill the men, they might kill the children, but they always kept the females, females have always been valuable to every human society.
    Men were the ones expected to die for women, men were the ones expected to go to war and to work back breaking labor, men have always been the disposable ones, not the females.
    The Idea that our society is trying to wipe out females is a joke, without females, and a good number of them, there is no society.

    But people will point to china and say ha! see? female genocide!
    But this is due to a faulty system and a financially strained nation,
    When you have a 1 child policy in a country with strong gender roles, the gender of your child will have a huge impact on your families financial future, females became a burden as females didn't produce income for the family, and even if they could, not near as well as men.
    So having a male child was a better option, you could put him in to labor and he could work like a mule for the family.
    The reasons for men being valued more than women in countries like china is an entirely financial one and an inevitable outcome of a faulty system.

    ReplyDelete
  122. A thought:

    The problem with arguing that transgender identities are a product of misogyny is that you can argue that about pretty much anything. You could argue that homosexuality is a product of a misogynistic culture, because men are encouraged to sleep only with men (who they think are more worth people than women). You could say that lesbianism is encouraged because a misogynistic culture wants to segregate women from men. Or because violence is encouraged in men, women feel the need to have intimate relationships with other women.

    Of course, those ideas are ridiculous. But equally ridiculous is the idea that a patriarchal medical community is pressuring women to become men, or that all transgendered people are only transitioning because of their poor self image, perpetuated by a misogynistic culture.

    Let's look at some points against misogyny being the cause of the transgender "phenomenon."

    -If men wanted to protect the power of male over female, they would try to prevent transitioning, in order to prevent losing that power to others.

    -If the medical community was pressuring women to transition, we would see a far higher percentage of people transitioning. The latest gallop poll on the subject found that 3.4% of Americans were gay, lesbian, bi, or trans. So that means that much less than 3.4% of Americans are transitioning.

    -By the way, if the medical community was trying to make money off of transitioning, then we'd see many more sex-reassignment surgeries (especially since more and more people can get that covered by insurance). Right now, there's an estimated 100-500 sex reassignment surgeries per year (including surgeries for babies born with male and female sexual characteristics). However, there were over 296,203 breast implant surgeries in 2010. That means that if a surgeon is looking for a way to make money, they aren't going to make much off of sex reassignment surgery.

    Resources: http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/Pa-St/Sex-Reassignment-Surgery.html
    http://www.makeherup.com/2011/03/23/how-many-women-got-breast-implants-last-year/

    ReplyDelete
  123. Thank you so much, Dirt, for telling the truth. So many accuse you of hatred, but the opposite is true. You have not given up on the possibility of women's freedom, and you tell the truth that you see. Exposing the systemic and personalized abuse of women, and revealing the enormous pressure on lesbians to renounce their femaleness are courageous and loving things to do. There are many parallels between addiction to drugs and/or alcohol and this whole "transitioning" stuff. it's the wrong word--they're not transitioning at all. These women and men who take these hormones and buy these surgeries are capitulating. They deserve so much better, as do we all. Thanks for being part of the better, Dirt.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Don't be fooled by fans like Erin, Dirt. You aren't telling the truth. You are ignoring the rights and identities of people who are doing you no harm. You are using hateful and hurtful language that encourages discrimination against a minority. You are abusing fellow human being and pretending that it's feminism.

    What we all deserve is the right to be accepted as who we are, and the right to decide with our doctors what is medically best for ourselves. It's the right to have control over our own bodies.

    I'm sorry that people keep confusing fear and bigotry with truth and love.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Damn Erin, Your nose is lodged so firmly up Dirt's ass, the smell is screwing with your rational thought.

    ReplyDelete
  126. @ Anonymous 1:35 AM

    "What we all deserve is the right to be accepted as who we are, and the right to decide with our doctors what is medically best for ourselves. It's the right to have control over our own bodies."

    You are correct. We all deserve the right to be accepted as who we are. I don't agree, however, that doctors will know what is medically best, especially in cases of "gender dysphoria". In any event,if you really want control over your own body, I think handing it over to the medical professionals for them to construct it as something resembling a version of 'male' that might conform to our current society's accepted ideal (at least at first glance) is the opposite of that expressed desire. sorry, that was a long sentence. For the most part, there is nothing medically wrong with the the bodies of women who wish to 'transition'. Until, of course, their livers fail from the testosterone and so on...Anyway, gender is a social construct, (as most people on both sides of this argument seem to agree), so the physical interventions of surgeons and doctors do NOTHING to alter, or question, or subvert gender. If you really don't like the gender you were raised into, (and I don't like a lot of what we're supposed to be as 'feminine', either), then figure out how to change that--organize, resist, relax about your body, it's just fine--this obsession with hormones and surgeries and 'passing' is a very effective way to divert women from political organizing. The "project of the self" is endless, and essentially not very satisfying.

    ReplyDelete
  127. @ Erin:

    Note that I say we have "the right to decide with our doctors what is medically best for ourselves."

    Doctors don't decide what is medically best for us without us being involved. At least they shouldn't be. That's a whole different issue.

    There is medically something wrong with the bodies of people who want to transition. Their bodies are causing them mental and emotional distress. That is a medical problem.

    Most people's livers don't fail from testosterone. People who have problems with testosterone can take measures to stop the problem, or will often stop taking testosterone.

    Transitioning doesn't stop us from political organizing. We do it a lot. That's why there are more and more places where gender identity is protected in the workplace, schools, etc. Just because not all trans people are feminist, it doesn't meant they're not politically active.

    Transgender people don't just have poor self image. Relaxing about their body doesn't fix our issues. We do organize and resist. We resist the idea that we have to be stuck with the gender we were assigned at birth. We resist people like you who tell us that we're women when we know we are not.

    The project of self is endless and very satisfying! We are never perfect, whether we're transgender or not, gay or straight, male or female. We should constantly be working to understand ourselves better. Transitioning is part of that process.

    Just because you're not transgender, just because you don't understand transgender, that doesn't mean that transgender is not a valid identity and that we don't deserve to decide for ourselves what to do with our bodies, as long as we're working with medical professionals to ensure we remain safe and healthy. And yes, transitioning is just as safe and healthy as any other medical intervention that requires drugs and surgery. There are risks, of course. We are aware of them and will deal with them if they come up.

    ReplyDelete
  128. @ Erin, you show a profound lack of understanding of what it is to be transgender and what it is to transition.

    I have well documented my transition, I have seen both private doctors and NHS funded clinics.
    Doctors NEVER tell you what you want, in fact they resist telling you what options are available, they want YOU to tell THEM what you want.
    Its much more a case of supply and demand, there is a demand for transition and so, doctors supply that demand.

    Its a huge misunderstanding that doctors advise you to transition, I have never been advised to take hormones or seek out surgery.

    As for gender as a social construct, yes, gender is not a real physical thing, however There are real ingrained instincts within the vast majority of humans with very few exceptions. scroll up to view a recent post I made about this under the name "catnip"

    ReplyDelete
  129. "No society has ever tried to eradicate females."

    163 million missing girls from China and India.....

    That represents approximately the entire female population of the U.S. I ask the reader to imagine all the women in the U.S. disappearing over a period of several decades.

    (Mara Hvistendahl, "Unnatural Selection")

    a well-researched book...actually, female infanticide had been going on in parts of India and other countries before this.

    ReplyDelete
  130. November 16, 2012 4:09 PM

    Did I not explain WHY china has lost so many girls in that very same comment?

    It's not that china is trying to kill off females, their intent isn't to exterminate females, hell if females brought in the cash it would be boys who were going spare.
    Its not due to any misogynist mentality, it is the result of a flawed and broken system and was entirely unintentional.

    Damn, did you just read my first paragraph and not finish the rest?

    ReplyDelete
  131. If the medical community wanted to assist with committing genocide against women, they could just say that anorexia was an identity, and that women have the right to starve themselves to death.

    There are a lot more young women killing themselves with anorexia than there are transgendered people. And transgendered people are seeking out medical treatment and ways to help themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  132. IS THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS COMMENT AN EPIDEMIOLOGIST? AT ANY RATE, THE LINK DOESN'T WORK.

    "By the way, if the medical community was trying to make money off of transitioning, then we'd see many more sex-reassignment surgeries (especially since more and more people can get that covered by insurance). Right now, there's an estimated 100-500 sex reassignment surgeries per year (including surgeries for babies born with male and female sexual characteristics."

    Let's break this down and really see what we really have. I suggest a complete epidemiological study that includes EVERY THING THAT I LIST BELOW. I ONLY WANT TO FOCUS ON FEMALE TO MALE. Many FTMs (female to male) don't undergo "bottom surgery" because of the cost and multiple surgeries.

    INCLUDE ALL THE FOLLOWING AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE:

    (1.) Prescriptions for "T" or testosterone in biological females for "gender dysphoria". Twenty years ago, this was very rare. Compare the number of prescriptions for "T" today to twenty years ago, then thirty years ago.
    (2.) If someone said the words "chest masculanization" or "top surgery" twenty years ago, people wouldn't know what you were talking about. Compare the number of "top surgeries" today to twenty years ago, then thirty years ago.
    (3.) Do the same for "bottom surgeries" or phalloplasties.
    (4.) Of course, puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dyshporia" didn't exist twenty years ago. How many biological females are prescribed puberty suppressing drugs for GID now? How many biological females were prescribed puberty suppressing drugs for GID ten or twenty years ago?
    (5.) Compare the number of females diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) or "gender dysphoria" today to twenty years ago, and thirty years ago. Also, compare the age at which patients are first diagnosed with GID.

    Again, I want to focus on FTM (female to male) or biological females. To state that there has been no increase in "chest masculanization" or "top surgery" is ludicrous on its face because the terms weren't even used twenty or thirty years ago. This also applies to the obvious rise in the use of "T" or testosterone in biological females. Do a complete epidemiological study with everything I've listed before you throw up a bunch of garbage.

    ReplyDelete
  133. @ 5:26 PM

    ARE YOU A GENDER THERAPIST? No. None of us are medical professionals here. We're all just talking about our experiences, opinions, and backing up what facts we do know with links we find online.

    Anyway, I was comparing the numbers for sex-reassignment surgery with the numbers for breast implants only. I never said anything about whether top surgery has increased or not. I assume it has.

    As insurance companies become more likely to cover gender reassignment, and doctors become more educated about it, and our society becomes more accepting, the number of sex change surgeries will increase.

    But the point that I was making is that the medical community isn't making big bucks off of gender reassignment.

    So, yes. The use of testosterone, top surgery, bottom surgery, puberty suppressing drugs, and the diagnoses of GID has increased. From what I've seen, nobody said it hasn't.

    Before you put up a bunch of garbage, maybe you should read my actual post.

    Also, which link didn't work? They both worked for me when I tried them again just now.

    ReplyDelete
  134. "However capable and skillful an individual may be, left alone, he or she will not survive. When we are sick or very young or very old, we must depend on the support of others. There is no significant division between us and other people, because our basic natures are the same. If we wish to ensure everyone’s peace and happiness we need to cultivate a healthy respect for the diversity of our peoples and cultures, founded on an understanding of this fundamental sameness of all human beings."

    -Dalai Lama

    ReplyDelete
  135. " Do a complete epidemiological study with everything I've listed before you throw up a bunch of garbage."

    Erm, If you are trying to convince us of something (not sure what that is from your post) The burden of proof is kind of on you, not the person you are trying to convince.

    If someone fails to complete a study for you and your theory, that doesn't mean you are right by default.

    Its like If someone is accused of murder, you don't ask the alleged murderer to do an investigation to prove they are innocent... and then when they cant prove it you claim they are guilty by default.. sorry, that's not how it works.
    Some real numb nuts in here...

    ReplyDelete
  136. PLEASE, KEEP THE UMBRELLA... I want to feel the rain on my face

    "Do you really not know what the trans identity is? That's a really important thing when you're on a blog complaining about transitioning. It's an umbrella term for a lot of different gender non-conforming identities." Learn more: http://www.critpath.org/thac/transidentity.html

    I know that trans is something of a so-called "umbrella term" used to describe anyone who might fall under the category of gender non-conformist. However, I AM GENDER NON-CONFORMING, and I DO NOT identify as trans. My parents just called me a tomboy when I was growing up. This was before they shoved puberty suppressing drugs down the throats of girls who stepped outside the boundaries of gender conformity. I'm sick and tired of being thrown under your &^*())++## umbrella.

    Butch lesbians don't want to be thrown under your precious, bedazzled, glittered trans umbrella. There is nothing wrong with the identity of butch lesbian. We are the gender renegades and outlaws who refuse to lop off our breasts, take testosterone, and crawl under any one's umbrella. We kind of like the rain on our faces, and the wind in our hair as we tear down the highway of life hell bent on conquering what life throws at us. Other women who don't identify as butch, or even lesbian, and refuse to buy into sex based gender roles might not want to be thrown under this trans umbrella either.

    Anything that is gender non-conforming DOES NOT always equal trans. If anything, trans just reinforces traditional sex based stereotypes. If we eliminated gender altogether, trans would become irrelevant. There has to be clearly visible culturally based differences of masculinity and femininity for trans to exist. Break these down, and trans is meaningless.

    As to transsexual, it generally implies surgery and hormones.

    ReplyDelete
  137. "PLEASE, KEEP THE UMBRELLA... I want to feel the rain on my face"

    What are you rambling on about? some vague bullshit in an attempt to make being butch or lesbian more noble than being trans, guess what, you don't have to identify as trans, no one is forcing you to, you seem to think that there is a conspiracy against you, there isn't, calm the fuck down.

    Again, you obviously didn't read my post like I advised to get a better understanding of transgenderism, Breaking down gender does not rid the world of transgenderism, as long as there are sexes there will always be transgenderism, as there will always be sexual orientation.

    Stop acting like trans is a threat against your butch identity, it isn't, and if you really wanted to break down gender, you wouldn't use words like "butch" or "fem" which acknowledge gendered behavior.

    ohh by the way, "butch" is an umbrella term, hows that rain feeling?

    Moron.



    ReplyDelete
  138. @ Germany

    Sorry this took so long, but I finally did some reading on Lili Elbe and Magnus Hirschfeld. I also looked for info about the Berlin Drag Kingz, but what I seemed to find were several different sites about potentially unrelated drag king groups. So, well... here's my impressions based on what I've read (it wasn't in depth reading, I have to admit. I'm spending a lot of time working on holiday stuff, so I haven't had as much time for reading as I'd like).

    From what I've read, Elbe seems to have been what we'd call transgendered now. And when sex change surgery became an option for her, she tried it. Unfortunately, the procedures at that time were experimental and the medical community then did not know as much as we do now, so they tried transplanting a uterus, and she probably died from her body rejecting it.

    From reading about Hirschfeld, it seems he was an advocate for the rights of women and homosexuals. If I'm understanding what I've read correctly, he came up with the term "transvestite." And he was interested in studying the varied ways that sexuality could be expressed.

    Originally, I believe your comment was that "We know the trans concept started (medical experimentation) here in Europe a bit over 100 years ago as a result of gay men desiring to be "normal"/straight." I asked who exactly knows this, and you asked me if I knew about Elbe and Hirschfeld.

    I couldn't find anything about gay men desiring to be straight. Also, the only "medical experimentation" I saw as the kind that happens whenever a new procedure was developed at that time. The way they used to test procedures was to try it on people first and hope for the best. A lot of procedures used today came from that kind of poorly planned out beginning (like open heart surgery).

    So I'm confused, basically.

    As for the drag kings, I'm not sure what lesson you wanted me to take away from that. Yes, some people who are drag kings end up coming out as transgender. I don't see why that's a big deal. Sometimes we start out doing the drag king thing as we start to figure out who we are and what makes us comfortable in ourselves. It was from drag kings that I first learned how to bind, and how to start dressing and acting more masculine.

    ReplyDelete
  139. @ 8:31 PM

    You don't have to identify as trans. The "umbrella" is for people who do. I don't believe every tomboy is transgendered.

    And not every tomboy these days take gender suppressing drugs. I don't believe anyone would have "shoved" them down your throat if you didn't want them either.

    We don't believe there is anything wrong with the identity of butch lesbian, and I don't think most people would consider you transgender. If a butch lesbian wanted to call themselves transgender, though, I think most trans people would be welcoming.

    Nobody gets "thrown under" the umbrella. It's just a metaphor for describing what transgeder can cover. That doesn't mean people have to be transgender.

    I never said that gender non-conforming equals trans. Though anything under the trans umbrella is gender non-conforming (it's like, not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles).

    Yes, if we eliminated gender completely, then trans would be irrelevant. If we eliminated sexual identity, then gay and lesbian would be irrelevant. If we eliminated racial identity, then black and white would be irrelevant. What's your point? Would you like to erase our identities completely? Perhaps you'd like us all to be exactly the same? Do you think the world can be a place where we're not all the same, but we can be considered equals? Because that last bit is what transgendered people want.

    Transsexual is generally understood to imply surgery and hormones. Well done on stating an uncontested fact.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Let me assure people of a few things:

    Trans people don't think all lesbians are trans.

    Trans people don't think tomboys are all trans.

    Trans people don't think that all butch women are trans.

    Let me explain something about humans, though. We each live our own experiences, but we have a tendency to project on others. For example, I had a friend who was diabetic. I had some symptoms that she thought could have been symptoms of diabetes, because they were similar to her experiences. So she was convinced I was diabetic. My doctor tested me every year, and every year I was fine (still am). But she was convinced that the doctor was doing it wrong. Even after I saw three different doctors about it, and they all said I was not diabetic, she still wouldn't believe it.

    So why am I telling this story? We tend to see ourselves in other people. So it's not uncommon for a trans person to see someone else who is gender non-confirming, and think that person might be trans. That doesn't mean they're right. But it's not any kind of maliciousness or an attempt to force other people to be trans either.

    Lesbians do the same thing. I, and many of my lesbian friends, have made assumptions about other women's sexuality. Again, no harm meant, but boy have I seen some straight women get really upset about that.

    And I think that some lesbians see transmen and assume that these are actually just butch lesbians who aren't comfortable with themselves. They see shared experiences, and believe that the transguy must feel the same as them. But that's not true.

    Both transguys and lesbians could benefit greatly from trying to empathize with each other, but not make any assumptions about anyone's identity. Our identities are for us to figure out on our own, as individuals. We all need to respect that.

    ReplyDelete
  141. If anyone gets a chance, I recommend either buying Gail Dines book, "Pornland: How Pornography Has Hijacked Our Sexuality" or checking it out at a local library. I was able to find it at a library close to where I live. The extreme gonzo porn has been described by Dines as making hate towards a woman.

    Warning!!!

    I found it difficult to get through this book because parts of it were so disturbing. A lot of women aren't aware of how brutal and extreme some porn has become. This book is well researched, and I like her writing style. It's like staring straight into the face at a level of misogyny that words can't properly describe.

    Q&A with Gail Dines...

    http://gaildines.com/2009/09/so-you-think-you-know-what-porn-is/

    (1) If I understand your position correctly, you acknowledge that some women choose pornography — young women who want to be the next Jenna Jameson — and obviously many modern women choose to be ‘empowered women’ like the Sex and the City characters. Given that these women feel free and powerful, without appeal to either of these, how is being a radical feminist better for women?

    Gag on My Cock, Altered Assholes, Human Toilet Bowls, Ebony Sluts, Oh No Theres a Negro in My Daughter, First Time with Daddy and so on.

    These are just some of the titles of popular porn websites and movies. Behind the soft-focus façade of porn – a façade constructed by the media in large part – lies a world of cruelty, violence and degradation. Most people I know who claim that porn is empowering for women have never actually seen what mainstream Internet porn – called gonzo by the industry – looks like. For the uninitiated, I will list some of the most common acts:

    •Vaginal, anal, and oral penetration of a woman by three or more men at the same time
    •Double anal in which a woman is penetrated anally by two men at the same time
    •Double vagina in which a woman is penetrated vaginally by two men at the same time
    •Gagging in which a woman has a penis thrust so far down her throat, she gags (or in the more extreme cases, vomits)
    •Ass-to-mouth in which a penis goes from a woman’s anus to her mouth without washing

    These acts are played out on a living being who, like the rest of us, has certain bodily limits. The goal in gonzo is to push these limits to the maximum. I would bet that few of the women who enter porn know fully what is expected of them or that they have a short shelf life as the body cannot take such punishment for long. Even the industry admits that gonzo porn is hard on the woman’s body.[i] According to the Adult Industry Media Healthcare Foundation women in porn are at risk of contracting diseases that few women outside of the industry will ever experience: chlamydia of the eye and throat, gonorrhea of the eye and throat, herpes of the eye, and herpes of the nose."

    ReplyDelete
  142. I don't understand why people voicing their opinions can't without resorting to insults, name calling, etc. If you don't like what this blog has to offer find one that mirrors your own ideas concerning gender etc. It seems pointless to insult and abuse anybody who doesn't share your opinion. I'm a girl and while not exactly being delicate do not enjoy sifting through a bunch of quasi trans butch etc trading insults. It's just sad.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Good write up Dirt , your right on the money.
    That is exactly what I see here.

    ReplyDelete
  144. it's a shame when someone who is lucky enough to be born beautiful like she was , throws it all away.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Honestly, shut the hell up dirt! your a stupid lesbian running your mouth thinking you know shit. You just hate Transmen because we don't buy into your feminist bullshit! Its funny how you Demonize both men and Transmen but you don't pay women who abuse men or other women or trans women in general. Go back to your safe space and deal with it!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. By calling me a "feminist" you clearly do not know anything about me or my work. Until you familiarize YOURSELF sweets, YOU shut the fuck up!

      Dirt

      Delete

Copyright © The dirt from Dirt | Powered by Blogger
Design by SimpleWpThemes | Blogger Theme by NewBloggerThemes.com | Distributed By Blogger Templates20