Change Your World-NOT your Body

Saturday, September 1, 2012

FTMISOGYNIST-The Proof is in the Pudding

Why is it that whenever and where ever a feminist points out the gross misogyny behind transitioning females or the gross misogyny spewed straight from the mouths of trans females, instead of calling the female hatred of that particular woman into question, more hate and more misogyny are poured onto the fire? Why is the misogyny vomited from trans females towards women so sacrosanct among other trans females? Why isnt the medical community and Lesbian community rightfully drawing the common sense conclusion from that level of internal misogyny to see with open eyes EXACTLY why these women choose transition as the answer to their troubled lives??? Lives clearly that not only remain troubled, but worse, increase in troubles!!!! Ans why is the mirror feminist like myself holding up to trans females sooooooo bloody frightening to them???

A few things for you to ponder while I head over to my uncle's for a BBQ. As I'll be the only female there, perhaps the trans females who have concluded I "hate men", should tell the men there.

dirt
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69 comments:

  1. I don't care how many men you know. Whoopti-do, asshat.

    Here's a perfect example of transphobia: suggesting that transpeople are child molesters. Any negative response to you is entirely appropriate and well-deserved because of that.

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  2. Still waiting for an explanation as to how you can call FTMs female and then deny that you are committing a gross act of misogynistic yourself hate by writing about them in such a manner. Either FTMs are male or you are a flagrant misogynist. Which one is it?

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  3. ^^^^@5:06 nothing Dirt says on here is misogynistic to ftm. It is critical but it is not misogynistic. There's a difference you know. She doesn't call them bitches, ho's etc.

    What are you referring to exactly?

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  4. Being critical of a female is not misogynistic. Is this more Transinsanity where EVERYTHING is transphobic? Where a female says "I'm a female" and they're transphobic?

    Some of us know the difference between a critique and prejudice.

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  5. You know what? My endocrine system is totally messed up. I'm feeling sick, I'm stressed out and right now I want to say I hate men even though it's only some men who screwed up my body with bad medicine [not trans related] and screwed up my mind with beatings. not all men.

    - Mary

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  6. Most of us probably have a lot to be angry over. I don't want to hate men, but sometimes it's hard to focus the anger on the institutions and cultural norms that did me harm, and do other women harm, and do all of us harm, instead of men.

    - Mary

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  7. 5:13: I don't understand how the concept of Dirt constantly referring to FTMs as female and then belittling them is not misogynistic by her own definition. Yes, be critical of medical practice etc, but Dirt goes beyond being critical and crosses the line into antagonism, confusion and half-baked arguments.

    Take this as an example:
    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/silence-equals-lesbian-violence.html

    Followed by: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2191664/Charlie-Rogers-Lesbian-charged-lying-claiming-masked-men-tied-beat-carved-anti-gay-slurs-body.html

    To create posts like Dirt did and then completely ignore the outcome only to go on and call all Trans people liars is not being a responsible blogger. How many people will come to Dirt's blog, see her post and not get the full story here? How can we debate and discuss things like violence against lesbians when she ignores major stories such as this? It's as though the facts didn't turn out to suit her crusade, therefore it was ignored in favor of posting the same things about trans people over and over and over again.

    And I said nothing about transphobia and most certainly didn't accuse Dirt of being so. I don't believe she is transphobic, I just think she's not a very nice human being who isn't that hot at debating anything.

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  8. Who is this "Dirt" person, and why are they so convinced that to be FTM means that you automatically must hate women? I don't get it... Maybe I'm just 17 and naive, but none of what she's saying makes much sense. I love women, I have nothing against them in general, but I just don't see myself in the world as one. That's all. Why should my own personal feelings garner such negativity and antagonism as what I've read today on this website?

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  9. I have been told many things about Dirt from people who have the pleasure of knowing her more personally than I do. I have heard she is a bat-shit crazy alcoholic with few friends, who spends alot of time at a specific bar, drinking alone. Now, with all the grammar mistakes in her "blog" and general lack of logic, coupled with emotional vomiting, I'd say the drinking part is true, at least. Something else I heard is that someone she dated is dating a transman now and it pisses her off. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned is something I've also heard. Who knows? Who cares? The whole thing is really sad.

    I would say she has some painful delusions of grandeur and a martyrdom complex. The only thing I know for sure is that she invents and propagates LIES about transpeople and their lives. One such lie is that we are likely child molesters. Another nice one is that our partners are child molesters. Could be particularly painful and triggering for anyone who actually has been molested as children.

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  10. "And I said nothing about transphobia and most certainly didn't accuse Dirt of being so. I don't believe she is transphobic"

    Really? Dirt has accused transpeople of being child molesters. If I were to say that same thing about, say, gay men or lesbians, I'd consider that to be homophobic. Certainly there are multitudes (hundreds of thousands) of young people who have been molested by homosexuals, but it would still qualify as homophobic if I were to characterise gay people as ANY one negative thing, wouldn't it?

    Is the qualifying difference that transpeople actually don't exist, so we can't be slandered as a group? What's your thinking?

    For the record, I've yet to hear of ANY litigation or accusation involving sexual molestation of a minor by a trans person compared to the numbers of homosexual molestation on public record. Just sayin. How's that feel to the gays reading here? Get back to me. I'm anxious to hear from you.

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  11. Oh, Dirt. We don't think you hate men.

    We think you hate TRANS men.

    Actually, no. Pretty sure we KNOW that.

    Oh, and just another friendly reminder that you still haven't taken my face off your blog. Guess it slipped your mind!

    Thanks!
    -Jared

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  12. @Anon @September 1, 2012 8:13 PM
    My psychology professor has read her shit and pegs her as being sschizophrenic with borderline personality disorder.

    Sometimes you just have to shake your head and ignore what a mentally disturbed person has to say.

    I agree with you on the whole alcoholism point. She must truly have one crappy life. Few friends, mental disorders, and alcoholism.

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  13. DIRT) "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance....

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  14. No Dirt, you *should* rest your case. Really.

    You really fucked up with the whole "transpeople are child molesters" thing. Any person with integrity would withdraw that whole blog post and apologize profusely for such disgusting and malevolent, bigoted lies. Yet, you've not replied once anytime I've brought this up. I've never told you you should "die in a fire", because what I'm saying is true and you have NO REPLY. You cannot answer for yourself because you are a coward. I strongly sense that you know how fucked up and crazy your accusations are, that you've discredited your ENTIRE PLATFORM by combining your personal hatred with a true feminist concern. Your words and actions are unconscionable. You deserve no respect, and you have no self-respect. I think I'd rather die in a fire than have to live with myself if I'd done the things you've done.

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  15. Maybe she's the one who is a perdophile seeing as how much she seems to "know" about it and pointing fingers at a whole community of people. Just for the record, my now 14 year old cousin was raped by two lesbians at 9 years old.

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  16. Maybe...sorta like an anti-gay preacher who solicits handjobs in the men's bathroom. I've never seen such vehemence without the presence of guilt and self-hatred.

    To read her words, you'd think lesbians are not capable of being perpetrators of sexual violence, but everyone *knows* that some are. Where's the good in keeping silent about that kind of thing?

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  17. Unless invested in fighting the misogyny that creates the trans disorder, find somewhere else to post ignorant nonsensical comments.

    thank you

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  18. character deformation is not an argument. It strongly suggests you have no rational and logical reply to Dirt's arguments.

    Also, if this is a 'political tactic' (lol) ya all use regularly...at some point you will annoy the wrong person and get sued for slander. Good luck with that.

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  19. @ Lisa M

    "My psychology professor has read her shit and pegs her as being schizophrenic with borderline personality disorder. "

    Your professor, that is if you're not lying, which you probably are, is irresponsible and unethical my dear.

    A diagnosis is a very serious matter and takes indepth sessions. Also it is unethical to discuss any conclusions with you, or anyone else.

    "schizophrenic" is a particularly laughable amateur diagnosis btw and leads one to think you're actually a liar and should ask a therapist about that sometime!



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  20. "I don't understand how the concept of Dirt constantly referring to FTMs as female and then belittling them is not misogynistic by her own definition.........."

    Reminding someone of basic biology (they're female, and always will be), isn't misogynistic, and it's only belittling if you have a problem with biological facts in the first place.

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  21. Oh, and before you jump down my throat about being called a woman being an insult-

    I was talking about being called a misogynist, mentally ill, or a pedophile. Not a woman.

    I don't correct people when they assume I'm a gay man or a woman because there's nothing wrong with either of those things. The only time I correct people is when I have to work with them or interact with them regularly.

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  22. "Here's a perfect example of transphobia: suggesting that transpeople are child molesters. Any negative response to you is entirely appropriate and well-deserved because of that."

    I am NOT saying all transpeople are child molesters by any means. Again, NOT all transpeople are child molesters.

    However....

    Transwoman Paul Witherspoon who snuck into women's restrooms in Texas is a registered sex offender.

    Sorry for mentioning this.

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Transgender-Woman-Convictions-Irrelevant-to-Citation-149923975.html

    When he still had his penis, Richard (Sherri) Masbruch, tied two women up, stripped the insulation off an electical cord, then sadistically shocked the two women with the cord before he brutally raped them. The last time I checked, Sherri (Richard) was in a women's prison.

    http://prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/transgender-inmate-faces-complaint/

    Besides Buck Angel, FTM porn star, a few other transmen have made money by eroticizing BDSM. Transman Califia's has made a handsome living eroticizing S&M.

    One of transman Patrick Califia's books is Macho Sluts, a collection of sadomasochistic erotic fictional short stories. One story, titled "Finishing School," is about a lesbian mother who submits her 13-year-old daughter to sadistic homosexual torture. In the story, the mother whips the daughter until she bleeds. I wonder how many pedophiles have masterbated to the "erotic fiction" Patrick Califia has written.

    I am NOT saying that Patrick Califia is associated with NAMBLA, but this quote is still on their website.

    "The NAMBLA Web site includes a quotation from Califia, attributed to an interview she gave in October 1980 with the magazine The Advocate:

    "Boy-lovers and the lesbians who have young lovers are the only people offering a hand to help young women and men cross the difficult terrain between straight society and the gay community. They are not child molesters. The child abusers are priests, teachers, therapists, cops and parents who force their stale morality onto the young people in their custody. Instead of condemning pedophiles for their involvement with lesbian and gay youth, we should be supporting them."

    http://www.nambla.org/califia.html

    Pat Califia, lesbian author and activist,
    in The Advocate, October, 1980.

    "I think Buck Angel is a real sweetie and he is a fantastic example of how transmen can love female parts of themselves."

    Very interesting....there is nothing unique or revolutionary about pornography...

    I'm sure transman Buck Angel GETS PAID for 'demonstrating' how transmen can love the female parts of themselves. Buck does a lot of 'demonstrating' for money in front of cameras.

    For people who don't know who Buck Angel is, google him.

    Again, I am NOT saying that transpeople are child molesters, but there have been a few transwomen who ARE child molesters.

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  23. "Here's a perfect example of transphobia: suggesting that transpeople are child molesters. Any negative response to you is entirely appropriate and well-deserved because of that."

    Question:

    Since some people are so concerned about children, should children be watching "Buck Angel" perform for money? Should children read "Macho Sluts" by Patrick Califia, or any of Califia's books?

    It's amazing how close the trans community as a whole is to the lucrative pornography industry. At the last Philadelphia Trans Health Conference, there was even a workshop for FTMs interested in the sex industry. About the only people who have consistently spoken out against pornography are lesbian feminists, and they have been reviled and called sexless, old prudes for doing so.

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  24. Females in pornography have zero to do with loving their bodies, and Buck angel is in porn in order to further abuse herself as a woman. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to see she has clearly been sexually abused when she was a girl. One has to wonder if it is even possible to hate yourself as much as Buck hates herself and keeps on hating herself. Very sad.

    dirt

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  25. "character deformation is not an argument. It strongly suggests you have no rational and logical reply to Dirt's arguments.

    Also, if this is a 'political tactic' (lol) ya all use regularly...at some point you will annoy the wrong person and get sued for slander. Good luck with that."

    Hey brainiac, it's character DEFAMATION not "deformation". It must be hard for you to attend law school with no grasp of vocabulary *while* working at the caramel corn stand in the mall all day.

    Furthermore, Shart doesn't have "arguments" per se that would warrant any reply. She suggests trans people are child molesters and that their partners are child molesters too. What response is needed to such a hateful and disgusting charge? How do you respond to people thinking you and all your lesbian and gay friends are child molesters JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY?

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  26. "I am NOT saying all transpeople are child molesters by any means. Again, NOT all transpeople are child molesters."

    Gee, thanks for that. Shall we compare your two cases to the numbers of homosexual pedophiles who have been prosecuted? A person on this blog already mentioned a relative who was raped by two lesbians at the age of 14.
    As far as the stretch to implicate Califia and Buck Angel, I really think you are grasping at straws. But what I really want to know is what you think. Do you think we have defective morals as people? I'm not interested in what Shart thinks, because she doesn't.

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  27. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2191664/Charlie-Rogers-Lesbian-charged-lying-claiming-masked-men-tied-beat-carved-anti-gay-slurs-body.html

    As to this woman, she apparently fooled a lot of people in the beginning. Dirt, was NOT the only person fooled by this person. Right after the incident in question, there was even a candle light vigil for this woman, so this person had fooled many people at first. Yes, this woman does need help, and there was no excuse for her behavior. In my opinion, if this really was fake, this does a great disservice to all women because violence against women IS real.

    Since lesbians are still women, they ARE raped and assaulted. Unfortunately, the actions of this individual make it harder to convince people that the violence is real.

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  28. "Unless invested in fighting the misogyny that creates the trans disorder, find somewhere else to post ignorant nonsensical comments."

    Translation: "I can't account for my despicable words and actions. Could you just stop bringing it up so I can pretend to be an honorable person with a worthy cause?"

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  29. "As to this woman, she apparently fooled a lot of people in the beginning. "

    I hadn't heard about the turn of events. Why would a person do something like that? Furthermore, why didn't Shart ever mention that her story was found to be totally false? There is ample evidence of violence against women and lesbian women. Is the woman mentally-ill? If I remember the original post, Shart tried to blame transpeople or attention paid to LGBT *again* in some circuitous way for the attack, or the lack of attention it got. It must have been hard for Shart to swallow the news about the case. Yet, she lacks the moral strength to admit when she's wrong. It seems to me that it's just another way that victims of misogyny perpetuate their own victimization. As long as people like Shart AND this Nebraska woman perpetuate lies and won't hold themselves accountable, it's easier for the the patriarchy to discount them as "hysterical". You can't abuse the truth when it's inconvenient and then expect to have it at your disposal when you need it.

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  30. "Gee, thanks for that. Shall we compare your two cases to the numbers of homosexual pedophiles who have been prosecuted? A person on this blog already mentioned a relative who was raped by two lesbians at the age of 14. "


    It's a fact that all women are far more LIKELY to be victims of rape or childhoold molestation that to be perpetrators. Since I'm a female who happens to be lesbian, I can't speak for homosexual males or males in general.

    Center for Sex Offender Management

    March 2007

    A Project of the Office of Justice Programs,

    U.S. Department of Justice

    In contrast to the burgeoning body of literature describing male sex offenders, the research on female sex offenders is considerably under-developed. Much of what exists is purely descriptive in nature and tends to be based on small samples of women and adolescent girls in clinical settings, making it impossible to draw reliable inferences about any defining characteristics, risk factors, or offense dynamics of female sex offenders as a whole.


    http://www.csom.org/pubs/female_sex_offenders_brief.pdf

    "National criminal justice statistics reveal that of all adults and juveniles who come to the attention of the authorities for sex crimes, females account for less than 10% of these cases (FBI, 2006). Specifically, arrests of women represent only 1% of all adult arrests for forcible rape and 6% of all adult arrests for other sex offenses."

    Question:

    Should transwomen who raped women when they still had their penis be placed in women's prisons? Should transwomen registered sex offenders be allowed to use women's restrooms?

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  31. There is, always, the inconvenient fact that sexual abuse of males is far, far under-reported due to social pressure. If it's homosexual abuse, there is the fear that revealing it will implicate the victim as homosexual. If it's heterosexual abuse, young boys and men are indoctrinated to believe that they are lucky to have gotten "experience" so young. Furthermore, since there is probably statistically less involvement of a phallus-type object in rape perpetrated by a lesbian, rape is harder to prove and may even be harder for a victim to identify what the exact violation was.

    Personally, I don't think sex offenders should be in public bathrooms, but they are. Heterosexual, homosexual and trans, though the statistics on trans-rape are extremely low at this point. I do not consider women to be "safer" by any means, so I have a hard time conceptualizing a useful bathroom or jail segregation strategy based on genitals. I do support your right to feel safe, however.

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  32. I don't care what anyone says. There are some serious ethical issues that no one dares to even whisper. Is Dirt the most eloquent person to outline these issues? Perhaps not, but many of her points are cogent. I want to discuss "gender dyshporia", FTM, and "transitioning" What happens if we are wrong? How many female bodies are we willing to surgically mutilate? I hate to sound so crass, but if we are wrong, Isn't this just another form of mutilation of the female body? Historically, has there ever been a time in recorded history in which the mutilation of female bodies in one form or another hasn't occurred? Now, let's think about this. Since some people seem so concerned about children, there is also the issue of slapping five year old children with labels of "transgender" or "gender identity disorder". Moreover, to state that denying children adolescence, a normal part of human development since the very beginning of our species, all in the name of transgender has nothng at all to do with ethics is most disturbing to me. Well, heck yes these are ethical questions that no one will touch at the risk of being branded transphobic.

    Sorry, but I do have problems with five year old girls being slapped with a label of "transgender", and already being addressed as "he" or "him". I refuse to drink the Kool Aide and to go along with this insanity. This is a Washington Post article about a five year old "transgender" female child.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/transgender-at-five/2012/05/19/gIQABfFkbU_story.html

    Because she didn't play with her sister's tinker bell doll, this five year old girl is being called "he" by her parents. Doesn't this just re-enforce "gender identity disorder"?

    Have people gone totally insane? I have a hard time believing that seven year old children really understand what sex change surgery means. Now, let's discuss puberty suppressing drugs. These drugs are given to pre-teens. This is something being DONE to children, and they probably don't even understand what is happening to them.


    "Chris started last year as “Grace” and “she”. I had thoughts over the years that he may be transgender as he always dressed in boys clothes and “acted” like a boy. BUT I as most people figured he was just a “tomboy.” I really thought thought that he might be transgender when at around 7 years old. He said “Mom, I am supposed to be a boy would you care if I had sex change surgery when I was older?” "


    http://www.transkidspurplerainbow.org/transyouth-stories/meet-chris/

    Biological females are talking about having their breasts removed before they develop breasts. How in holy hell can we say that seven year old females fully understand what sex change surgery means?

    What exactly is gender identity disorder? Whether we want to admit it or not, this diagnosis is not an exact science. Is this something we can quantify? Twenty different therapists or psychiatrists might twenty have different answers. Culture plays a major role in gender identity, and to state that the diagnosis of gender identity in five year old children isn't problematic flies in the face of common sense and logic.

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  33. ***My Questions:

    Do we know what goes on in the mind of a five year old biological female who is already being called "he" by her parents? Can we say with all certainty that we are right? What happens to pre-teens who are given puberty suppressing drugs for "gender identity disorder"? What if we are wrong? If we are going to arrest normal adolescences in twelve or thirteen year old children, shouldn't we be DAMN SURE OF WHAT WE ARE DOING? This is something being DONE to children. Do these pre-teens on puberty suppressing drugs completely understand what is being done to them all in the name of "gender dysphoria"? If surgeons are going to take a scalpel and surgically remove healthy breast tissue in females, or surgically alter their genitals, shouldn't we be damn sure of what we are doing? If biological females take testosterone for years, don't all drugs come with side effects?



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  34. Plenty of women have their breasts and genitals surgically altered for aesthetic reasons, We have been modding, piercing, tattooing, branding and scaring our bodies for thousands of years, might these people regret their decision? sure, I'm sure many people have scarred their bodies with their ex lovers names branded across their ass, but Its their choice, we shouldn't ban these things because some people might regret it.
    as for the children, i don't think anyone is pressuring their children to transition, The children are probably being asked to be called by male/female pronouns.

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  35. "Plenty of women have their breasts and genitals surgically altered for aesthetic reasons."

    Unfortunately, this is absolutely true. In Africa one practice is called female genital mutilation. It's believed that the anatomy a female is born with is not very aesthetic, and girls who aren't circumsized are harder to marry. In Africa an estimated 92 million girls 10 years old and above have undergone FGM. There is another practice called "breast ironing" in which women flatten adolescent girls' developing breasts, intending to protect the girls from the dangers of sex, consensual or otherwise. Yes, it's true that women have had their breasts surgically enchanced for decades, but I still think these women can nurse, and most of their breasts are retained. Because essentially all healthy breast tissue is surgically removed, I don't even know if FTMs are capable of nursing children. I would have to research this subject. Some transmen have gotten pregnant. Enhancing or modifying female breasts is not the same as surgically removing almost all healthy tissue.

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

    "We have been modding, piercing, tattooing, branding and scaring our bodies for thousands of years, might these people regret their decision? sure, I'm sure many people have scarred their bodies with their ex lovers names branded across their ass, but Its their choice, we shouldn't ban these things because some people might regret it."

    I have no problem with piercings or tattoos, and I know tribal societies have practiced tattooing and piercing.

    However, "transitioning" is more involved than getting one's body pierced or going down to the local tattoo parlor. People don't have to have a letter from a psychiatrist before they get a body piercing. They simply stroll on down to the corner tattoo parlor.

    (1.) Does a tattoo or piercing involve the chemical or surgical castration of an individual rendering him or her sterile?
    (2.) Does a piercing or tatoo involve puberty suppressing drugs which halt a normal part of human development?
    (3.) Does a piercing or tattoo involve a life time committment to testosterone? Are prescription drugs always safe? Below are some possible side effects of long term testosterone use in females.

    *Polycythemia
    *Elevated liver levels & potential liver conditions
    *Elevated lipid profile/High cholesterol
    *High Blood Pressure
    *PCOS (poly cystic ovarian syndrome)

    (4.) Piercings and tattoos don't require major surgery, and no surgery is without risks. When a person wants a new tattoo, he or she doesn't check into the hospital.

    A tattoo can be lasered off if people get tired of it, but getting both healthy breasts removed is permanent.



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  36. 8:21: I don't think Dirt is transphobic simply because she can't grasp the basic concept of what it means to be trans. She's trying to hate on and debate something she very obviously doesn't understand. It's quite sad, really. Most folk who would get a little nudge from people going "Hey, what you're saying... It sounds awful like transbashing..." would stop for a second and think about it before rambling on like a stuck record. The fact that Dirt seems incapable of having a discussion about the one thing she seems so passionate about really does leave you wondering over the strength of her own argument. The only thing she ever seems to follow up on this blog is her little mosaics of people from Youtube which to me makes it look as though she's fast running out of ideas, especially when she is given ample opportunity for debate in these threads. I see plenty of reasonable comments here, yet the most she can muster in response is something which reads like it was found carved in stone at the top of a mountain.

    Not only is she missing the point of the what the overall subjective experience of individual trans people actually means, she's also missing the point of critical thinking. Criticizing something doesn't mean being negative about it - it means to point out its faults. Dirt doesn't do just that. She goes further and attacks her subject with flowery language, but as I said at the beginning - it's so blatantly obvious that she doesn't understand trans enough for me to honestly think she's being transphobic. "Not nice" seems like a good catch-all, since if I was going to call her transphobic I'd also have to call her chronocentric and incompetent, so it's easier just to call her not very nice.

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  37. Anon 9:01: The Anon mentions modding; I urge you to look up the following:

    Meatotomy
    Hood Splitting
    Genital Frenectomy
    Glansectomy
    Penectomy
    Nullification
    Subincision

    I believe these may be the sort of modifications that the Anon was referring to.

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  38. "Plenty of women have their breasts and genitals surgically altered for aesthetic reasons."


    What exactly is "transitioning"? Let's break it down.


    (1.) After they are diagnosed with "gender identity disorder" at age seven or eight, some children might be given puberty suppressing drugs. As long as humans have walked upon the earth, adolescence has always been a normal part of human development. Well, transgender has turned this on its head. If cross gender hormones are given after puberty suppressing drugs, there is an issue of future fertility being compromised. As I understand it, the use of puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dysphoria" isn't even approved by the FDA specifically for this disorder. This is being DONE to children.

    (2.) As to FTM, a surgeon takes a scalpel and removes both healthy breasts.

    (3.) A life time of testosterone is required if transmen are to retain masculine characteristics. If a transman still keeps his ovaries and uterus, there is an issue of PCOS and testosterone.

    (4.) Female genitals are sometimes surgically altered. This can require multiple surgeries, and can never produce a fully functioning penis comparable to a penis on a biological male. If a penis is surgically created, tissue usually is grafted from another part of the body.

    (5.) Because of PCOS, some physicians recommend removal of uterus and ovaries shortly after taking testosterone. These people are sterile.

    Again, I would have no problem at all with FTM "transitioning" if it were as simple as a tattoo or body piercing. Since cross gender hormones have to be taken for life, "transitioning" never ends.

    I haven't even touched the surface of WHY women feel compelled to so drastically surgically alter their bodies in the first place, and the role that culture plays.

    "The children are probably being asked to be called by male/female pronouns."

    Watch the Washington Post video of the five year old "transgender" girl. I serioulsy doubt if kids that age know who or what they are. By calling a five year old girl "he" even in the prescence of others outside the family, doesn't this just re-enforce "gender identity disorder"?

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  39. Meatotomy
    Hood Splitting
    Genital Frenectomy
    Glansectomy
    Penectomy
    Nullification
    Subincision


    As to hood splitting, most women have no problem achieving orgasm without surgically altering the clitoris. Perhaps the real problem is with the lover not the woman herself. To me, it's always interesting that throughout recorded history women have always felt compelled to surgically alter their genitals to please men who don't take enough time to get to know a woman's body, or the patience to sexually stimulate her. At any rate, I hope that infection never sits in because that wouldn't be a good place for an infection. I know that people who are into body modification never want to hear about things like infection which can occur any time the skin is piereced in such a dramatic way. By the way, there have been a few hospitals that have had a couple of cases of drug resistant bacteria. No sane person wants to contract a drug resistant strain of bacteria. There is also the issue of Hep B, Hep C, and HIV any time blood is involved. Hep B and Hep C can wreck the liver, and humans have only one liver. I should know because my sister's husband died waiting for a liver transplant. He had Hep C. He wasn't that old. I think he was about forty years old. This is my suggestion, if you are female, ask a gynocologist. I'm not familiar with most of these body modification terms.


    What does all this have to do with FTM "transitioning"? I don't understand why "hood splitting" was mentioned? Do these body modification practices involve the complete removal of breasts, a life time of testosterone, or the possible removal of uterus and ovaries? Do these require cross gender hormones for life?

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  40. I was just wondering what the person who mentioned "hood splitting" thinks of female genital mutilation whereby the clitoris is completely removed. Why was this carried out for centuries, and why does it still occur? Or, what does this person think of the practice of "breast ironing"? Without the belief that there is something intrinsically unattractive and, indeed, repulsive about the female body that must be physically altered these barbaric practices wouldn’t be possible. Misogyny fuels these practices. What is so repulsive about the female body that it has to be surgically modified? Globally, the surgical alteration of female bodies is very profitable. This could NOT exist unless women were so insecure about their bodies to begin with.
    I would like to revisit “hood splitting” because someone brought this bazaar subject up. If there is nerve damage or scar tissue caused by improper “hood splitting” wouldn’t this just make orgasm more difficult?

    According to Web MD, the most common complications associated with genital piercing include:

    *Bacterial infection
    *Bleeding
    *Nerve damage
    *Allergic reaction to the jewelry
    *Thick scarring at the piercing site

    http://www.webmd.com/sex/genital-piercings?page=2

    A common type of female genital piercing is known as the vertical clitoral hood or VCH. Why pierce or alter a healthy female clitoris? What is the purpose? This supposedly results in direct stimulation of the clitoris during sexual intercourse. That is, intercourse is what most women need. Gee, where have we seen this before?

    Question:

    Why can’t a woman’s partner sexually stimulate her with something other than a penis? For example, with mouth or fingers? It’s been known for centuries that most women need clitoral stimulation to orgasm. This is nothing new at all. If a woman can’t orgasm through intercourse, just slice her clitoral hood. If there is infection, scarring, or nerve damage, then she sure as hell won’t be very orgasmic.

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  41. I know that people who are into body modification never want to hear about things like infection which can occur any time the skin is piereced in such a dramatic way.

    If you still believe all the modfications listed are piercings, you clearly have no concept of what you are talking about. Many body modifications at their core do involve irreversible removable of healthy tissue. A man having a penectomy does not make him transsexual. A woman having her breasts removed does not make her transsexual, yet still plenty of women willingly do it and yes, a lot of them are lesbians. It does not take a lot of internet searching to find this.

    And it really shows that you go straight in with the clitoral stimulation comment. If you can't see how a lesbian practicing nullifaction on her own body (which I'm going to spell out: is the voluntary removal of body parts up to and including the clitoris) is relevant to the FTM debate, you're really not doing your homework very well.

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  42. Dirty you are naughty!
    Now then ... the first central only thing that should and needs to be remembered by everyone who bangs on about feminist values ... the central premise is .... we are ALL equal ...ALL...and we shouldn't be reductive of each other.
    The premise is concerned with growth...healthy loving growth.
    So ... Dirty ... my poppet take care as you do slip up a bit every now and again.
    Porn by the way is not something the feminist movement wants or wanted to stop. Rather, intelligent thought moved towards regulation to keep workers safe. By the way Dirty poppet I don't think any self-respecting feminist would assume that sex workers were abused children.
    Lastly, Buck Angel and Pat Califa are very different people and discussing them in the way you do shows you could do with doing a little more research.
    Lots of Love
    Vinegar. (honey)
    PS. I think Buck is a top geezer.

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  43. I am fully aware of what genital mutilation is, women still force their baby boys to have their genitals mutilated here in the west without good cause (though I am aware that sometimes it is necessary)

    I do not condone any kind of body modification forced on to anyone, including ear-piercing, many girls I grew up with had their ears pierced when they were toddlers because their mothers thought it would be “cute”

    “I have no problem with piercings or tattoos, and I know tribal societies have practiced tattooing and piercing.”¬¬¬

    Yes, sometimes against their will! It wasn’t uncommon for people to be FORCED to be pierced, tattooed, scarred and even branded against their will, That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t choose to have these things done to themselves, but you, dirt and others seem to make the case that because certain acts have been used on people against there will in the past that we shouldn’t have the choice to do it now (which is why I think you brought up genital mutilation earlier,), so I thought I would point out the hypocrisy.

    So lets nip this on the butt now so we don’t have to bring it up again.
    Just because something was forced on people in the past, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to willingly do it now, I’m sure you agree.

    The rest of your post concentrates on piercing and tattooing, despite the fact that I included more invasive surgeries which often do require a psychological assessment, blood tests and health checks before you proceed.
    I have heard on several occasions of people being recommended to see a physiatrist or counselling before making a final decision on cosmetic surgery, but that isn’t a good reason to ban it.

    “Since cross gender hormones have to be taken for life, "transitioning" never ends”

    Biological males have to take the exact same hormones transmen do If their body stops producing it, It isn’t the case of “you take this and AFTER you will have finished transition” That’s not how it works, that’s not even how trans people view it, Its just transmen being given the hormones their bodies cant produce naturally, transmen aren’t doing anything non-trans people haven’t done thousands of times before.

    Men can produce too much estrogen and go out of their way to remedy it, even if the only side effects are those that make them look more feminine, these are traits biological males often feel very uncomfortable with, and again, go out of their way to change it, transmen feel the same way, and feel the drive to do the same.

    Hysterectomies and vasectomies take place all the time outside of the trans community, again we have the right to undergo these surgeries weather we are transgender or not.

    Do trans people put themselves at risk of illness? Yes, just like most people do when they don’t eat the right foods or exercise enough, or when they drink, smoke and do drugs (Personally I don’t drink alcohol, smoke or take drugs)
    See, we have the right to damage our bodies and put ourselves at risk of illness, None of these are good reasons not to transition, people do worse outside of transition every day.

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  44. I would lastly be interested to know what your position is on abortion, because I would be really interested if you are supportive of women not using any of the umpteen methods of contraception and opting to kill their pre-born babies and destroying everything they are and could be in the future, while denying trans people to remove body parts they don’t want or need that at least belong to themselves.

    (I am pro-abortion btw)

    So yeah, I haven’t heard a single good case for why trans people shouldn’t or shouldn’t be allowed to transition.

    We (as in ALL human beings) have the right to modify and in some cases remove body parts surgically.

    We as human beings have the right to put ourselves at risk of illness and death.

    We as human beings have the right to permanently sterilize ourselves.

    These are things none-trans people have been doing for thousands of years, if you are truly against these things, its time you go and protest against anything and everything that may damage the human body.
    The rest of your post concentrates on piercing and tattooing, despite the fact that I included more invasive surgeries with often do requite a psychological assessment, blood tests and health checks before you proceed.
    I have heard on several occasions of people being recommended to see a physiatrist or counselling before making a final decision on cosmetic surgery, but that isn’t a good reason to ban it.

    “Since cross gender hormones have to be taken for life, "transitioning" never ends”

    Biological males have to take the exact same hormones transmen do If their body stops producing it, It isn’t the case of “you take this and AFTER you will have finished transition” That’s not how it works, that’s not even how trans people view it, Its just transmen being given the hormones their bodies cant produce naturally, transmen aren’t doing anything non-trans people haven’t done thousands of times before.
    Men can produce too much estrogen and go out of their way to remedy it, even if the only side effects are those that make them look more feminine, these are traits biological males often feel very uncomfortable with, and again, go out of their way to change it, transmen feel the same way, and feel the drive to do the same.

    Hysterectomies and vasectomies take place all the time outside of the trans community, again we have the right to undergo these surgeries weather we are

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  45. Sorry, there seems to have been a glitch between when I copied and pasted my comments from my word and I cant figure out where it went wrong, so sorry that it repeats at the end!

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  46. "We (as in ALL human beings) have the right to modify and in some cases remove body parts surgically."

    This post is very interesting. I especially was intrigued by the words "body parts".

    (1.)Does this include lobotomies, half our brain, whole arms, whole legs, an entire hand, both our ears, our entire nose, the entire penis and scrotum, or the entire clitoris along with both labias?

    (2.) THIS ASSUMES THAT PEOPLE ARE NEVER INFLUENCED BY CULTURAL, FAMILY, OR PEER PRESSURES. THIS ASSUMES THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE RATIONAL AND ARE OF SOUND MIND. THIS ASSUMES ALL PEOPLE KNOW EVERY SINGLE RISK, SIDE EFFECT, OR CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR DECISION. I would be more likely to agree with this statement if I knew that all people are rational to begin with. We cannot take a human being and completely separate him or her from the culture he or she is raised in.

    (3.) Does this include female genital mutilation, the practice of breast ironing, or Chinese foot binding? It's very interesting to me that when female genital mutilation is mentioned, the trans community suddenly becomes silent. Millions of women have had their genitals mutilated essentially for cultural reasons, but what they heck they are only body parts.

    (4.) Aren't children human beings? So, does this statement: "We (as in ALL human beings) have the right to modify and in some cases remove body parts surgically" include children? Should children be allowed to remove healthy parts of their anatomy? PUBERTY SUPPRESSING DRUGS ARE GIVEN TO SOME CHILDREN FOR "GENDER DYSPHORIA", and since the pre-frontal cortex of the human brain isn't fully developed until the early twenties, how can these children fully understand what is happening to them. Of course, puberty suppressing drugs don't surgically lop off body parts. Rather, they prevent NORMAL sexual development in children. That is, girls don't develop breasts, and boys won't develop male characteristics. In this way, there is less healthy tissue to surgically remove when they "transition" later. I haven't heard anything from trans activists about the chemical suppression of normal adolescent development. Indeed, trans activists praise something that isn't even approved by the FDA for this specific purpose, but what the heck. In some countries, sex reassignment surgery is carried out at age six-teen, but what the heck.

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  47. I love this sentence. Read this again so it will all sink in.

    "We as human beings have the right to put ourselves at risk of illness and death."

    (1.) Some people who are at risk to themselves are considered mentally incompetent. Sometimes these people are locked up in a psych ward somewhere.

    (2.) If a surgeon botches a surgery to the point of mutilating a human body, or even killing someone, should this surgeon be sanctioned or lose his or her license?

    (3.) If "We as human beings have the right to put ourselves at risk of illness and death." WHY EVEN HAVE LICENSED PHYSICIANS. LET ALL PEOPLE TAKE THE CHANCE AND PICK THE CHEAPEST PHYSICIAN THEY CAN FIND TO PUT A SCALPEL TO THEIR HUMAN FLESH.

    (4.) If this is true:

    *We as human beings have the right to put ourselves at risk of illness and death.

    Does this include suicide? Why not just walk in front of traffic, or fall asleep on a rail road track?

    (5.) Aren't children humans? How does this statement apply to children?

    Again, this assumes that everyone is fully competent to begin with and that NO one is ever influenced by cultural or family pressure.

    "We as human beings have the right to permanently sterilize ourselves."

    I love this sentence. READ THIS AGAIN. There are ethical issues involved in sterilizing incompetent people, or people who don't fully understand the consequences of their actions. IF WE ARE GOING TO STERILIZE HUMAN BEINGS, THERE ARE ETHICAL ISSUES INVOLVED. Didn't Hitler sterilize a lot of disabled and feeble minded people before he got around to exterminating the Jews. Most human rights organizations frown on sterilizing incompetent people. Developmentally disabled people have been sterilized, and states have been sued for doing so.

    "Its just transmen being given the hormones their bodies cant produce naturally, transmen aren’t doing anything non-trans people haven’t done thousands of times before."

    FACT: While it's true that some biological males might need testosterone, NO TRANSMAN produces the same amount of testosterone that a biological males produces naturally. The human female body really isn't designed for large amounts of testosterone. What is happening to genetic females as far as years of testosterone levels equal to what is seen in males is not observed in primates. Females produce very small amounts of testosterone naturally, but never the same level as biological males.

    "I would lastly be interested to know what your position is on abortion"

    I would love to answer this question. However, I won't give a simple answer because this is a complex issue. I've ALWAYS been pro-choice, and have fiercely supported a woman's right to choose. In my opinion, contraception is vastly superior to abortion which should be a last resort. All women should have access to contraception. I support a woman's right to choose, but I think abortion should be a last resort. Now, we turn to what I see as A FEMALE HOLOCAUST. Since this doesn't directly impact the trans community, I doubt if they are even interested. According to a well researched book entitled, "Unnatural Selection", approximately 163 million girls are missing from China and India because of sex selection abortions. Sex selective abortions are an abomination. What social and political forces created something akin to a female holocaust? This wouldn't be possible without societal views of women and girls, and devaluing of women. So, here is a clear case in which CULTURE INFLUENCED THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. I've never heard one tras person mention this, or speak honestly about female genital mutilation. After all, it's only female bodies.

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  48. Question:

    Time and time again the transgender community remains silent on the issue of female genital mutilation. Why do they dance and dart around this most uncomfortable issue? Millions of females have had their genitals surgically scraped away essentially for cultural reasons.

    "I would lastly be interested to know what your position is on abortion, because I would be really interested if you are supportive of women not using any of the umpteen methods of contraception and opting to kill their pre-born babies and destroying everything they are and could be in the future, while denying trans people to remove body parts they don’t want or need that at least belong to themselves."

    BAZAAR AND STRANGE....AND VERY TELLING

    In my opinion, this just shows how ignorant and utterly misogynistic some people are. Take time to read this carefully. Because women can die in childbirth, or their fetus can die, reproductive health care is essential to all women. What the holy hell does this have to do with anything?

    Women's issues don't mean diddly squat to these people...

    I suggest women listen to this and listen carefully.

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  49. "I would lastly be interested to know what your position is on abortion, because I would be really interested if you are supportive of women not using any of the umpteen methods of contraception and opting to kill their pre-born babies and destroying everything they are and could be in the future, while denying trans people to remove body parts they don’t want or need that at least belong to themselves."

    In other words, trans issues matters and women are only the sum of their body parts. The fetus is not part of the female. Reproductive health care is a women's issue.

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  50. Time and time again the transgender community remains silent on the issue of female genital mutilation. Why do they dance and dart around this most uncomfortable issue?

    How do you know the people who have been discussing female genital modification/mutilation on this thread aren't trans themselves?

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  51. *facepalms* I love that you brought up all the stuff I was going to elaborate on just in case you were stupid enough to misinterpret what i was saying, I thought, naa, no one is that stupid, but I was wrong..

    When I say "put ourselves at risk of illness and death" I was referring to things like, drink, smoking, drugs and a generally unhealthy life style, we know these things can cause illness and death, yet it is legal to do so, these things you can draw a comparison to when you talk about things like the use of testosterone, but you cant draw a comparison between testosterone use and suicide.

    As for the body parts, again, I was going to say "that don't leave an individual dependent on others or the state" I didn't think you would actually go in to amputation of limbs, which is nothing like the removal or reduction of breast tissue, but anyway.. people have removed parts of their ears or made their ears disfigured, there noses too, people are pushing the boundaries of their body modification all the time. The line is usually drawn when the mod may effect your mobility and dexterity.

    again with cosmetic surgery, you are putting yourself at risk of illness and death, these are situations we have the right to put ourselves in, again, you have no argument, trans people aren't doing anything none trans people have done a thousand times before!

    You cant wrap people up in cotton wool, yes people might regret their decisions, that's life.

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  52. Female genital mutilation, I don't think any form of body modification should be forced on anyone, but if a women or man wants to modify their penis or vagina, I have no problem with them doing so, plenty of people do, from splitting, to skin removal and even bead implantation, Its their choice aslong as that is what they want.
    Men's genitals are still mutilated to this day as common practice, on babies! for cultural reasons, I think that needs to stop, but if he wants to be circumcised when he is older, he should have that right, and since I am for equal rights for men and women, so should women also have that right.

    "THIS ASSUMES THAT PEOPLE ARE NEVER INFLUENCED BY CULTURAL, FAMILY, OR PEER PRESSURES. THIS ASSUMES THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE RATIONAL AND ARE OF SOUND MIND. THIS ASSUMES ALL PEOPLE KNOW EVERY SINGLE RISK, SIDE EFFECT, OR CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR DECISION"

    Yep, people do some stupid shit, some people get tattoos and mods they regret, some people drink smoke and do drugs because of the pressures of culture of family/friends, that is life, we cant go around policing everyone, lucky for trans people they have to go through counseling and physiological assessments and are made aware of all the current possible side effects.

    As for children, I am one of the people that believe children can wait till they are 16 (Though I have heard of young boys asking to be circumcised, I've talked to a man who wished to be circumcised and was when he was nine, though Id rather he had waited till sexual maturity before making that decision) I think children's rights is a totally different subject I have little to no interest in, I am not an activist, nor a child.

    As for my comment on abortion, You will have to explain in detail why it is misogynistic, I believe women have the right to an abortion, I think women have the right to murder their unborn baby and deny it life, I am all for that, but you have to understand that the consequence of a women's decision to end an unborn babies life has a much greater consequence than someone removing their own breast tissue.

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  53. "FACT: While it's true that some biological males might need testosterone, NO TRANSMAN produces the same amount of testosterone that a biological males produces naturally"
    Yeah no shit, that's kinda why trans people take testosterone.

    And although Its possible there may be long term negative effects, there's long term negative effects to eating unhealthily, smoking, drinking alcohol and drug use.


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  54. "We (as in ALL human beings) have the right to modify and in some cases remove body parts surgically."

    Question:

    Doesn't this assume everyone is rational and capable of understanding the full impact of their decisions?

    Question:

    By her own words, the woman in the following link to the video is mentally ill and bipolar. She says this not me. Somehow and somewhere she heard that transgender or FTM was something she thought might be cool. Will “transitioning” (surgery and “T” as in testosterone) do anything for her mental illness or bipolar disorder? Isn’t it possible that this woman has no idea who she is or what she wants? She heard something about FTMs, and thinks this will solve all her problems.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/BecomingLynch

    I urge the reader to look at the young faces of the young girls from the ages of twelve to seventeen that Dirt posts. Some can’t wait to go on “T”. Testosterone is now “T” as in “I can’t wait to go on “T”, or my voice is lower now that I’m on “T”. Isn’t it interesting that a prescription drug is known by the first letter of the word instead its full name as if it has some sort of magical properties. Are we so naïve or swayed by the same trans talking points that we really believe that these kids know who the heck they are or what the heck they want? Do we really believe that seven year old girls understand sex change surgery? Google Trans Kids Purple Rainbow. Look at the young faces. The pre-frontal cortex in humans isn’t fully developed until the early twenties. This has been called the judgment center of the brain, and it’s the reason teenagers think they know everything, but lack clear judgment. Still, children are given puberty suppressing drugs to halt normal adolescent development. I wonder how many truly understand what is happening to them.

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  55. "We (as in ALL human beings) have the right to modify and in some cases remove body parts surgically."

    I would like to revisit female genital mutilation. Apparently, some in the transgender community believe that culture has played no role whatsoever in how and when female genitals and other parts of the female anatomy have been surgically altered.

    Historically, we know this is not true and, indeed, it’s ludicrous to state that culture plays no role in the way society views women, or the way women view their own bodies.

    The WHO estimates that 100–140 million women and girls around the world have experienced the procedure, including 92 million in Africa. The practice is carried out by some communities who believe it reduces a woman's libido.

    The WHO has offered four classifications of FGM. The main three are Type I, removal of the clitoral hood, almost invariably accompanied by removal of the clitoris itself (clitoridectomy);

    Type II, removal of the clitoris and inner labia; and Type III (infibulation), removal of all or part of the inner and outer labia, and usually the clitoris, and the fusion of the wound, leaving a small hole for the passage of urine and menstrual blood—the fused wound is opened for intercourse and childbirth. Around 85 percent of women who undergo FGM experience Types I and II, and 15 percent Type III, though Type III is the most common procedure in several countries, including Sudan, Somalia, and Djibouti. Several miscellaneous acts are categorized as Type IV. These range from a symbolic pricking or piercing of the clitoris or labia, to cauterization of the clitoris, cutting into the vagina to widen it (gishiri cutting), and introducing corrosive substances to tighten it.

    Types I and II

    Type I is the removal of the clitoral hood (Type Ia); or the partial or total removal of the clitoris, a clitoridectomy (Type Ib). Type II, often called excision, is partial or total removal of the clitoris and the inner labia or outer labia. Type IIa is removal of the inner labia only; Type IIb, partial or total removal of the clitoris and the inner labia; and Type IIc, partial or total removal of the clitoris, and the inner and outer labia.

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  56. Female genital mutilation continued...

    Type III

    Type III, commonly called infibulation or pharaonic circumcision, is the removal of all external genitalia. The inner and outer labia are cut away, with or without excision of the clitoris. The girl's legs are then tied together from hip to ankle for up to 40 days to allow the wound to heal. The immobility causes the labial tissue to bond, forming a wall of flesh and skin across the entire vulva, apart from a hole the size of a matchstick for the passage of urine and menstrual blood, which is created by inserting a twig or rock salt into the wound.[15][35][36][37][38] There is another form of Type III called matwasat, where the stitching of the vulva is less extreme and the hole left is bigger. Momoh describes a Type III procedure in Female Genital Mutilation (2005):
    In Type 3 excision or infibulation ... elderly women, relatives and friends secure the girl in the lithotomy position. A deep incision is made rapidly on either side from the root of the clitoris to the fourchette, and a single cut of the razor excises the clitoris and both the labia majora and labia minora.
    Bleeding is profuse, but is usually controlled by the application of various poultices, the threading of the edges of the skin with thorns, or clasping them between the edges of a split cane. A piece of twig is inserted between the edges of the skin to ensure a patent foramen for urinary and menstrual flow. The lower limbs are then bound together for 2–6 weeks to promote haemostatis and encourage union of the two sides...
    Healing takes place by primary intention, and, as a result, the introitus is obliterated by a drum of skin extending across the orifice except for a small hole. Circumstances at the time may vary; the girl may struggle ferociously, in which case the incisions may become uncontrolled and haphazard. The girl may be pinned down so firmly that bones may fracture.
    The vulva is cut open for sexual intercourse and childbirth. Momoh writes that, in some communities, when a pregnant woman who has not experienced FGM goes into labour, the procedure is performed before she gives birth, because it is believed the baby may be stillborn if it touches her clitoris. The risk of haemorrhage and death from FGM during labour is high, she writes. During three six-month studies in the 1980s, Hanny Lightfoot-Klein interviewed 300 Sudanese women and 100 Sudanese men, and described the penetration by the men of their wives' infibulation:
    The penetration of the bride's infibulation takes anywhere from 3 or 4 days to several months. Some men are unable to penetrate their wives at all (in my study over 15%), and the task is often accomplished by a midwife under conditions of great secrecy, since this reflects negatively on the man's potency. Some who are unable to penetrate their wives manage to get them pregnant in spite of the infibulation, and the woman's vaginal passage is then cut open to allow birth to take place. A great deal of marital anal intercourse takes place in cases where the wife can not be penetrated—quite logically in a culture where homosexual anal intercourse is a commonly accepted premarital recourse among men—but this is not readily discussed. Those men who do manage to penetrate their wives do so often, or perhaps always, with the help of the "little knife." This creates a tear which they gradually rip more and more until the opening is sufficient to admit the penis. In some women, the scar tissue is so hardened and overgrown with keloidal formations that it can only be cut with very strong surgical scissors, as is reported by doctors who relate cases where they broke scalpels in the attempt.

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  57. Female genital mutilation continued..

    Type IV

    A variety of other procedures are collectively known as Type IV, which the WHO defines as "all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, for example, pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterization." This ranges from ritual nicking of the clitoris—the main practice in Indonesia—to stretching the clitoris or labia, burning or scarring the genitals, or introducing harmful substances into the vagina to tighten it. It also includes hymenotomy, the removal of a hymen regarded as too thick, and gishiri cutting, a practice in which the vagina's anterior wall is cut with a knife to enlarge it.



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  58. "Question:

    Doesn't this assume everyone is rational and capable of understanding the full impact of their decisions?"
    trans people have to have their mental health assessed, they must undergo counseling and psychiatric help.
    There are already barriers in place. Each individual has to be assessed to make sure that their decisions are not being influenced by any other mental disorders they may have.
    But they still have the right to go drink themselves to death.


    "indeed, it’s ludicrous to state that culture plays no role in the way society views women, or the way women view their own bodies."

    Society has everything to do with the human physical form, we are social animals, I never said society plays no role, infact, I believe society has everything to do with human behavior and trans people aren't doing anything the opposite sex wouldn't do in a similar situation, if a male had breast tissue, he might want it removed, if he had his penis amputated or was born with no penis, he might want a phalloplasty, if a male produced too much estrogen and looked feminine, he might take testosterone to bring back his male features, its human nature to do these things as we are in competition with other members of our society, It is ingrained in to our human instincts.

    Social pressures aren't just something that effect women, they effect everyone, our instincts constantly put us at competition with other people around us, Women aren't being forced to wear high heals, skirts and makeup, nor are men pressuring them to do so here in the west, But women that do so are more likely to get the attention of suitable mates, whereas the women who does nothing to her appearance, wears sweat pants and a T-shirt isn't going to attract as much attention, so women are always trying to improve on their appearance, its ingrained in to our human nature.

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  59. In the middle east, both men and women are forced to wear a particular kind of clothing, this is due to a religious gone cultural ideology and is not instinctual behavior, though I know (since I have family in the middle east) that these people often dress in more western style clothing behind closed doors.

    I don't need to look in to the faces of those people,
    You cant sway me with emotion, you don't learn anything about truth by following your emotions. Human emotion is very deceiving.

    "Isn’t it interesting that a prescription drug is known by the first letter of the word instead its full name as if it has some sort of magical properties"
    I didn't realize we name things with "magical properties" by their first letter.

    don't read too much in to it, it is just an abbreviation

    I haven't looked in to the child aspect yet, but the rights of children shouldn't influence the rights of adults so lets keep this to adults for the time being as I have little interest in children's rights, I may look in to it in the future.

    ok genital mutilation.

    at this point we seem to have gone off topic with genital mutilation and I'm not entirely sure where the line is being drawn between genital mutilation and trans people.

    But If I had to make a stance, It would be as follows.

    all genders have the right to modify their genitalia, So many women in the body mod community have had things done to their vaginas and I don't want to live in a world where our lives are so controlled by the government that we cant do these things.

    The issue with genital mutilation in countries like Africa aren't that these surgeries are available, its a problem with the culture, the culture needs to change so men and women are not forced in to such practices, America needs to catch up too and ban male circumcision on babies.

    I already stated that I don't think any kind of body modification should be forced on to anybody, that should be a decision the individual makes.
    In most cases, banning doesn't work, you only force the procedure under ground, by denying people these things, they will turn to more dangerous alternatives.

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  60. I should point out that males had also undergone castration in many cultures, "Eunuchs" for example, and in the wast, as I have mentioned, women still force their baby boys in to circumcisions they don't need, genital mutilation isn't just a women's problem.
    I don't think you should be focusing on female mutilation, but genital mutilation as a whole, regardless of gender.

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  61. "at this point we seem to have gone off topic with genital mutilation ...But If I had to make a stance, It would be as follows.

    all genders have the right to modify their genitalia, So many women in the body mod community have had things done to their vaginas and I don't want to live in a world where our lives are so controlled by the government that we cant do these things."

    My point was to emphasize the fact that historically there have been times in which the way female genitalia and various parts of female anatomy have been surgically altered was greatly influenced by cultural factors. We simply cannot deny this. We even see this today with the millions of dollars spent on plastic surgery etc. If all women didn’t feel some level of discomfort with their bodies, then the lucrative cosmetic surgery specialties would exist.

    ISSUE ONE: THEY ADMIT "SOCIETY HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE HUMAN PHYSICAL FORM, we are social animals,

    “Society has everything to do with the human physical form, we are social animals, I never said society plays no role, in fact, I believe society has everything to do with human behavior ...”

    So, is this person stating that “transitioning” can be influenced by cultural factors. Now, we are finally getting somewhere as to the WHY people “transition” and what forces might INFLUENCE transitioning. That is, instead of “gender dysphoria” being something that is inherently uncomfortable and distressing that is unique to each individual, the very meaning of “gender dyshporia” can be subjective, and can be influenced by culture. In other words, strong societal pressures can influence a person’s decision to “transition” (surgery, a life time of hormones). Isn't it true that during the process of "transitioning", people have to see a therapist or psychiatrist to assess the "gender identity disorder"? I'm sure that this person would want to know WHY a person might want to "transition". I imagine most therapists would be reluctant to write a letter that would allow a patient to undergo surgery if he or she KNEW this person was being heavily influenced by family or cultural views. Let's think about this for awhile. I can't think of anything that more radically alters a female body than "transitioning". Indeed, a surgeon takes a scalpel and scrapes and cuts away healthy female tissue along with female identity. Both healthy breasts are removed, and multiple surgeries to surgically create a "penis" must be very painful. Sometimes the uterus and ovaries are kept, but if testosterone is prescribed for years while the uterus and ovaries are intact, there is an issue of PCOS (poly cystic ovarian syndrome). If this is true as this person stated: "Society has everything to do with the human physical form, we are social animals", then how can we honestly say that people "transition" based ONLY on their own beliefs without any influence whatsoever from cultural values and beliefs, family pressure, or peer pressure? If culture plays a role, then how can we say there is full and complete free will? Moreover, it does appear that culture has historically played an enormous role in how society views women, and the ways female bodies have been surgically altered. Culture might play a greater role for some people, and a lesser role for some, but it still appears to always be present.

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  62. ISSUE TWO: IF "SOCIETY HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN PHYSICAL FORM, WE ARE SOCIAL ANIMALS", THEN WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF COMPLETE FREE WILL?

    One person already stated:
    “Society has everything to do with the human physical form, we are social animals, I never said society plays no role, infact, I believe society has everything to do with human behavior.."
    If it's true that cultural and family pressures can influence the diagnosis of "gender identity disorder", and act of "transition", then how can complete free will without interference from others exist in such a state? Of course, the amount of cultural influence varies from individual to individual, but we can't completely separate people from their culture and family. If a person is influenced by cultural or family pressures, free will doesn't exist, and isn't this just another form of the mutilation of the female body based on a cultural belief system. The fact that culture CAN influence decisions, specifically as it relates to women and female bodies is something that is so profound that, in my opinion, we need to constantly remind ourselves of it's significance.

    ISSUE THREE: HISTORY OF UNIMAGINABLE BRUTALITY

    THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES IN WHICH CULTURAL VIEWS OF THE STATUS OF WOMEN, AND HOW THEIR BODIES SHOULD BE ALTERED TO MEET CERTAIN STANDARDS THAT HAVE RESULTED IN HORRENDOUS SUFFERING ON A GRAND SCALE.

    This is why I brought up the ancient subject of female genital mutilation. I wanted to give an example of culture influencing the manner in which female bodies have been surgically mutilated, and how the status of women forms these practices. History is filled with examples of how various cultures have exerted enormous pressure on women to surgically alter their bodies in various forms. This is NOTHING new because it's always existed. This is why I brought up the horrific ancient practice of female genital mutilation in which the clitoris and labias of millions of girls and women were brutally scrapped off all based on the low status of women, and the false belief that these women are more desirable.
    Ancient and modern cultural views of the social and political status of girls and women has lead to: female genital mutilation, the horrific practice of breast ironing, Victorian corsets which often misaligned ribs, the horrific practice of Chinese foot binding, female infanticide in which female infants are killed, sex selective abortions in which female fetuses have been aborted. This is a partial list of these brutal practices. Of course, this does not include the lucrative cosmetic surgery industry which only survives because few, if any, women truly feel comfortable with their own bodies. With cleaver marketing techniques, women are made to feel uncomfortable about their own bodies, and only surgery, cosmetics, etc will make them feel once again good about themselves.

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  63. ISSUE FOUR: INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY

    There is also the issue of internalised misogyny that might play a role in "transitioning". Do young girls gravitate towards FTM because they really feel as if they are 'boys trapped in a man's body', or do they want the status and privilege of being seen as male? Even in industrialized nations, girls are often made to feel inferior in many ways. Is FTM transitioing "gender dyshporic", or is this a means to escape an extremely misogynistic society that constantly devalues women?

    ISSUE FIVE: WITH MORE AND MORE PEOPLE "TRANSITIONING", SOONER OF LATER SOME PEOPLE WILL LIVE TO REGRET "TRANSITIONING" (SURGERY AND HORMONES FOR LIFE)

    Besides culture influencing decision making, unless we can say with all certainty that no one ever lives to regret "transitioning" , isn't this just another form of mutilation of the female body. As more and more young women "transition", then logic tells us that sooner of later some are going to have some regrets. Perhaps not all, but some will eventually live to regret their choices. When both healthy breasts are removed, they are gone for good, and when ovaries and uterus are removed, they are gone for good, and this individual is sterile. "Transitioning" (both healthy breasts removed, life time of testosterone, removal of ovaries and uterus, and often multiple surgeries to create a "penis" that doesn't completely function like a penis on a biological male) drastically alters a human's female body in that it surgically cuts away healthy female tissue along with female identity itself. So, these are profound chances. What happens if we are wrong, what happens if surgery doesn't have a desired effect, or is bothed? What happens if some people live to regret "transitioning" ? If more and more people are "transitioning", and "transitioning" can start even before puberty with Puberty Suppressing Drugs, common sense tells us that sooner or later some people will live to regret "transitioning". As to the question "WHAT IF WE ARE WRONG", apparently, the transgender response is no response at all. That is, hide or ignore the surgically scarred female bodies, ignore that anything is wrong, and go back to business as usual. Simple toss the surgically mutilated female bodies aside, and pretend it never happened, or directly attack the person himself for his own predicament, or attack Dirt, and anyone who brings up the touchy subject of transitioning not working for everyone.. Unless we can say with all certainty that no one lives to regret "transitioning", then isn't this just another form of the mutilation of females bodies. It's not like mutilation of female bodies in one form or another is anything new. It's been around for centuries

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  64. What exactly is "transitioning"?


    (1.) After they are diagnosed with "gender identity disorder" at age seven or eight, some children might be given puberty suppressing drugs. As long as humans have walked upon the earth, adolescence has always been a normal part of human development. Well, transgender has turned this on its head. If cross gender hormones are given after puberty suppressing drugs, there is an issue of future fertility being compromised. As I understand it, the use of puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dysphoria" isn't even approved by the FDA specifically for this disorder. This is being DONE to children.

    (2.) As to FTM, a surgeon takes a scalpel and removes both healthy breasts.

    (3.) A life time of testosterone is required if transmen are to retain masculine characteristics. If a transman still keeps his ovaries and uterus, there is an issue of PCOS and testosterone.

    (4.) Female genitals are sometimes surgically altered. This can require multiple surgeries, and can never produce a fully functioning penis comparable to a penis on a biological male. If a penis is surgically created, tissue usually is grafted from another part of the body.

    (5.) Because of PCOS, some physicians recommend removal of uterus and ovaries shortly after taking testosterone. These people are sterile.


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  65. “ I believe society has everything to do with human behavior and trans people aren't doing anything the opposite sex wouldn't do in a similar situation, if a male had breast tissue, he might want it removed, if he had his penis amputated or was born with no penis, he might want a phalloplasty, if a male produced too much estrogen and looked feminine, he might take testosterone to bring back his male features, its human nature to do these things as we are in competition with other members of our society, It is ingrained in to our human instincts.”

    No, it’s not exactly true that “trans people aren’t doing anything the opposite sex wouldn’t do in a similar situation”. A genetic female FTM is NOT a male, and biological males are NOT females. Males who have had an injury to their reproductive system is NOT the same thing as never having a male reproductive system to begin with. A male might have something wrong with a part of his reproductive system, but the rest of his reproductive system might function fine. Some biological males can’t father children, but NO FTM who is a genetic female ever produces sperm. A biological male wants to treat a condition to improve the health of the body he was born with. Whereas, FTMs take testosterone and undergo surgery to appear male based on a psychiatric diagnosis of “gender dysphoria”.

    "if a male had breast tissue, he might want it removed,"

    I suppose this could be true, but how many biological males do this? I don't think it's that common. FTMS get their healthy breasts removed because the estrogen in their female bodies developed the breasts.

    "if he had his penis amputated or was born with no penis, he might want a phalloplasty,"

    Well, this is probably true, but nothing can change genetics. We have to remember that the male reproductive system is complex, all the organs are connected, and simply because one part of the anatomy doesn't function doesn't mean that other parts won't.

    In a biological male, all these organs work together. Does a FTM have a prostate gland or a Vas deferens? Look at the organs and glands of the male reproductive system. How many FTMs have any of these organs or glands?

    *Penis
    *Scrotum
    *Epididymis
    *Vas deferens
    *Seminal vesicles
    *Prostate gland
    *Bulbourethral glands

    I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but biological males and biological females are different. In my opinion, the statement, "and trans people aren't doing anything the opposite sex wouldn't do in a similar situation" is only partially true at best.

    ** I know FTMs have heart, strenght, and courage, and they identity as male. Some have hearts of lions and walk proud. I appreciate this. However, they aren't male. Sorry for bursting your bubble!

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  66. I think you missed the point 8:22

    FTMs feel the same drive to do the things they do that males (on average) feel.
    Every drive and feeling humans have has developed over millions of years, our environment has changed quickly but the instincts remain.

    Trans people cant suppress these instincts in the same way sexual beings cant suppress their sexual instincts.

    Trans people can choose not to "transition" the same way sexual people can choose not to have sex, but the drive remains.

    Take homosexuals for example, there is nothing new about their sexual attractions, however their particular sexual attraction is a trait that benefits the opposite sex (for reproduction) a sexual attraction to a female is a masculine trait, and by that I mean, it evolved to benefit males so they could pass on their genes, the same trait in females only decreases her chance of passing on her genes.

    The instinct for males to take social information from other males to improve their social status is another trait that evolved to benefit males, but this is one of the traits FTMs have. The Majority of women also take social information from other women, the difference is the gender they take the social information from, the same way the difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals is the gender they have a sexual attraction to, and like sexual beings, these traits can over lap quite a lot.

    Note though that both males and females take social information from both males and females, but the majority of humans take their social information that determine personal presentation from members of the same sex.

    Although the way we talk and dress is a social construct, the drive to take that social information and apply it to ourselves is not.
    don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that everyone that does this is trans, and it doesn't mean everyone takes the same amount of social information from a particular sex.

    effeminate boys tend to spend a lot of time with female friends who they learn their feminine characteristics from, They will often mimic gestures and speech patterns from their female friends and apply it to themselves, these things are learned by our interactions with other people.
    although they often grow to be gay men, they wont necessarily grow to be trans women.

    This trait wouldn't benefit the effeminate boy, they significantly decrease the boys chance of reproduction in the future. (remember, the environment has changed a lot, but our instincts still think we are living in caves)

    I'm not saying this is the full explanation for transgenderism, but I believe it plays a large part in why trans people choose to change their outwardly appearance via, clothing, hair style, hormones and surgery.











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  67. "** I know FTMs have heart, strenght, and courage, and they identity as male. Some have hearts of lions and walk proud. I appreciate this. However, they aren't male. Sorry for bursting your bubble!"

    You keep doing this, you keep pointing out that FTMs are female,pointing out the biological differences, guess what? They know all to well, They live with their bodies every single day while their minds are in conflict.

    They cant change that, they cant change how their minds work.

    and you pointing it out and pushing it in their faces isn't going to help them.

    THEY KNOW, THEY ARE AWARE.
    do you have no compassion at all?

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  68. You are fighting a losing battle dirt. I'm curious if you could even PRONOUNCE the title of this article. When I hear you say the word feminist is sound like "flemnnist".

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