Change Your World-NOT your Body

Wednesday, August 1, 2012

Trans Regret-The Ultimate Shame!

In lieu working on a post about trans regret:

Point blank, there has never been, nor is, nor will there be a single trans person whose core self does NOT regret their ultimate life's mistake, despite the noise coming from the trans peanut gallery.

To transition is to KNOW and LIVE regret!

dirt
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47 comments:

  1. Wow Dirt, what did you eat for breakfast, a big bowl of stupid???

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  2. Pure ignorance. Unforgivable degrees of childishness. You can tell you haven't been within miles of any sort of school or intelligence-prompting facility of any sort.

    Pseudo intellectuals such as yourself are a science case all of their own. You are very ill and you have my pity.

    Keeping you in my prayers, Dirt.

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  3. Well, to me it looks like the hormones people put into their bodies alter their brains and make them think that they did the right thing, especially testosterone which has always been known to have that effect on men. This is why testosterone is marketed to men as a way to regain the 'confidence' they lose with age.

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  4. Hm, I don't know about that one, Dirt. I've been on HRT for 4 years now and I've never genuinely desired to detransition. Could it be what e said it was? Perhaps.
    All I know is that the thought of detransition, or having never transitioned, makes me genuinely upset and panicked.
    Do I wish I could live happily and confidently as a female? Of course I do. And I'm far more supportive of gay/lesbian rights than I am of transmen and trans women getting their injections and surgeries 'easier'. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that the 'new' Standards of Care have opened the doors wide to chaos and lawsuits regarding transition. They've made it that much easier for people who will be okay with their transition, yes, but they're also tempting in people who haven't done any sort of research or critical thinking on something that is permanently altering to the mind, body and soul (or the equivalent, if you believe in such).

    Though I think it would be best to avoid such finite ways of thinking. You can't speak for every trans* person in the world. I think genuine happiness is rare, no matter who you are and no matter what sex you were born as. Few people fit into the 'box' we define as normal, and even those who present as such have underlying chaos.

    However, I do really like this blog because it helps me think more deeply and in a different light than is normally shed on such a hush-hush topic.

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  5. I speak for common sense and core selves. The realization of the ultimate mistake happens daily with EVERY "trans" person.

    dirt

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  6. What is a core self? Like a core sample of sedimentary layers? Why try so hard to convince us of something only *you* seem to experience?

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  7. Its that self that feels shame every time you touch your pussy or the breast tissue still remaining or the scars across your chest or view your still very womanly hips and thighs. In a nutshell the female you have so desperately tried to bury who refuses to die.

    dirt

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  8. Oh! Then I'm in the clear. I don't feel that shame, nor do I have any scars, or womanly hips at all. On the other hand, I know so many dykes who do feel shame about their hips or breasts, so much so that they diet, starve themselves, or squish their breasts under too-tight sports bras.

    It's a null-sum argument.

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  9. Your misogynistic hatred speaks from within. And if you're a female then biologically it is impossible for you not to have child bearing hips. Nature doesnt lie.

    And it isnt dykes who suffer from the internalized misogyny you mentioned, but all women. This is princely why you've tried to opt out of being a woman yourself. Tried of course being the operative word.

    dirt

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  10. (I'm not the anon you were just speaking to, but I'd like to butt in here, if I may.)

    I don't feel shame when I touch myself in any of those ways. I don't like penis. At all. I don't even want one for that exact reason.
    I also don't feel shame nor do I feel I tried to kill off the female aspect of myself. I know she will always be there, because she was how I was born and she's not going away. I would never try to delude myself into thinking she would.

    I also know what you mean about internalized misogyny all too well. I sometimes think about it deeply, in fact. It's strange to me that males of all shapes, sizes and flavors are accepted far more readily than 'masculine' (for lack of better word, my apologies) women. In fact, women that look and appear that way get so much hate that it would destroy me from within to walk even a day in the shoes of many of the women I admire so much.
    What's sad is that I used to want to be like that. I used to point out lyrics in songs that were sexist and misogynistic and become repulsed by them, I used to drive my (extremely misogynistic) father absolutely insane because I demanded to sit at the head of the table over my younger brother and was unable to be moved or swayed. But something in me changed. There is -so much- to be angry about as a woman. It's an absolute fact.
    I know I'm not like other transmen. I never try to be. I never invade their circles, and I try not to invade the circles of women -or- men because I feel like I just don't fit any of those in one way or another. Yes, I was born female, but I know my presence is not wanted in female spaces and I respect that. (And I appreciate you, and other women such as yourself, allowing me to talk here in a place that belongs to only you.)
    Women-only spaces mean that your time living, socially or otherwise, as male should be effectively zero. Trans people can not make that claim, no matter what direction they are going in.

    But back on topic, I know that if I wasn't so terrified of the viewing the world through female eyes, wasn't made so angry and bitter by the unfairness of the world in relation to female experience, and somehow not allowed to transition, I would probably be the biggest dyke in all of existence. I never, (even after 4+ years on T) want a man to touch me or even desire touching me. It gives me chills (the bad, nauseating kind) to even think about.
    and here, where I live, there is an absence of strong female role models. There's nothing but silence. It's such a shame. When I presented as a dyke, I felt it was me against the world. The burden was too much to take. I sometimes wonder if the reason I don't feel ashamed to have transitioned is because I feel like the weight of the world is off of my shoulders. It feels so selfish to think that may be the reason, but I can't keep the idea out of my head.

    Anyhow, I think you're absolutely onto something about the decline of feminism and the sudden emergence of what you deem the 'trans trend'. I look forward to more posts on this topic, among other topics, from you. It gives me a lot to think about and I like that. Not many other blogs can do that for me.

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  11. Joe,

    Had you not felt ashamed of being a woman, you wouldnt have tried erasing her. Seems you also have some intense internalized lezbophobia.

    I wonder, if no female shame why you call yourself "joe"? I wager you use and insisted on others using male pronouns for you. You legally changed your F to an M. You dont embrace your womanhood. You've have your chest butchered. You dont refer to your genitals as pussy or vagina or clitoris.

    All signs of shame. And every time to inject more T you reaffirm that shame.

    And before saying what would society think, remember who you are talking to. A woman who has nearly always "passed", but remains firmly a woman regardless of the GSJ, what others think or the potential violence that can come to me.

    Were "transition" merely about feeling comfortable in your body, it would end there. It doesnt. It doesnt even begin there. It begins with "choosing a MALE name and changing pronouns. There is a whole lot more going on here that has nothing to do with feeling comfortable with your body. Misogyny. And one cannot "transition" misogyny.

    dirt

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  12. I find 'Joe''s take very interesting.

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  13. I was an out lesbian before I transitioned, but I'm not going to make excuses. Anything I could say is as solid as the 'I'm not racist because some of my friends are black' excuse.

    "I wonder, if no female shame why you call yourself "joe"?"
    Joe is, at least where I come from, both a female and male name, much like Terry, Charlie, etc.

    "I wager you use and insisted on others using male pronouns for you."
    Most around me do use male pronouns because that's what they see. Those who know only use male pronouns if they are comfortable with it. My mother and step-father still use female pronouns most of the time and I don't 'correct' them. They aren't comfortable with it, so I don't push it. It's not fair to them and not worth hurting their feelings. My family still views me as a lesbian despite telling them about being trans, and that's fine.

    "You legally changed your F to an M. You dont embrace your womanhood."
    I can't argue with that because I see your side of the story and agree with it. If I truly embraced my womanhood, then I wouldn't have run from it. I agree.

    "You've have your chest butchered. You dont refer to your genitals as pussy or vagina or clitoris."
    While I have had top surgery, I do still refer to my genitals in that way. It's not a dick and balls; I'm fully aware of my vagina and I appreciate it for the pleasure it gives me. It's never done anything wrong to me. External forces have done unforgivable things to it.

    "And every time to inject more T you reaffirm that shame."
    Again, I won't argue with that. If I didn't feel some sort of shame, then I wouldn't be taking external drugs to socially cover myself.

    "...remember who you are talking to. A woman who has nearly always "passed", but remains firmly a woman regardless of the GSJ, what others think or the potential violence that can come to me."

    I do think of that, and I admire you for it. This is a terrible analogy, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment: It's much like trying your hardest, all your life, to lift something (in this case, what felt like the weight of the world) and only injuring yourself repeatedly in the process. There comes a time where you simply give up because the risk of self-inflicted harm or death is too great. Then you see others tackling that same thing and being able to easily lift it, one-handed, and walk around with it like it's nothing. I know how much strength it takes to lift that, to carry that burden around, but I couldn't do it. My life was being utterly destroyed by it. And why wouldn't it be? Society has created an unequal (huge understatement) divide.

    The world is utterly and completely misogynistic and it's killing and enslaving females in every way imaginable. This fact makes my blood boil.
    I know, the first step should be comfort in my own skin and in my own brain, but I gave that a shot for 20 years. Does this make me a misogynist? I don't know the answer to that since it's all somewhat subjective. I do know my move was cowardly. I tucked tail and ran because it was hurting me in every way imaginable. I was too clouded by anxiety and anger to even confront the world before transition. I wouldn't leave the house for weeks, couldn't hold a job, and I ran off into a world of fantasy. In hindsight, I replaced one fantasy with another, but the former was far less productive than the current. I constantly felt that the world was against me, I was the target of rape and violence no matter what I did (just as every female is) and every male was my enemy because they were the source of it. I don't hate females, I don't even hate my female self, I hate what society has done to females and I couldn't take it any longer.

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  14. And thank you, E. I find your comments very interesting and thought-provoking as well.

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  15. Joe's comments are interesting. I often have tried to identify what the differences are between those who go the trans route vs those who do not, in terms of women such as myself who do not fit the sexist stereotypes. Joe is more honest & less defensive than the average transitioner about this stuff.

    I predict that twenty years from now, maybe even ten, we'll see much less transitioning. I see the trans trend as having all the characteristics of a fad- young women jumping on the transwagon- and many are undoubtedly heading for future regret. I think that transitioning doesn't fix the underlying problems, and people will eventually realize this.

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  16. " I don't hate females, I don't even hate my female self, I hate what society has done to females and I couldn't take it any longer."

    Considering what the female of the species has struggled with since the beginning of recorded time, women must be the most resilient humans on earth. Perhaps it takes a great deal of courage just to be female.

    "There is a whole lot more going on here that has nothing to do with feeling comfortable with your body. Misogyny. And one cannot "transition" misogyny."

    Very true and insightful.

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  17. Every story is different. I've always lived in large cities where there are large and varied lesbian scenes. I was never gay-bashed as a woman, nor did I hate my body-even my breasts were perfect and even unobtrusive. My friends and family were accepting of a lesbian identity. I've always had sex with men and women, though I had to hide my attraction to men in lesbian circles because of the judgment and policing. As a "masculine" woman, I rarely felt targeted or victimized on the street or in any other place. I am constantly surrounded by strong female role models. If anything, in my town, people put butches on a pedestal for being so "brave". Femmes used to flock to me, which felt untrustworthy, embarassing. Looking at it from my perspective now, I can see that certain women fetishize and idealize butches to the point that aggressive and controlling butch behavior in relationships is accepted because butches are oppressed. Joe, I'd agree with you if I felt the way you do. I just never felt targeted to the extent that it would make me undertake something as huge as transitioning, which was SO SO SO much more scary to me than staying as I was. I was accepted. My friends, when I first started talking about it, were violently opposed. But when I listened to them talk about transition, all they could talk about was their own feelings about their gender. Not mine. There was no healthy psychological separation and they crossed boundaries trying to tell me what I should do and feel. After sitting on that awhile, I realized I wasn't going to get answers from *any* other people about what I should do in either direction- it had to come from me. The topic is *way* too emotionally charged for some people. If misogyny irrationally informs the entire world's perspective, then I witnessed the vehement reaction to that as irrational as well and I don't trust it. The truth is somewhere in between (where no one gets to be fully comfortable). I never tried to be a woman or a dyke, but that's how I presented for 30 years. I don't feel shame when I take T. I don't feel like a woman at all. I never have.

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  18. "Its that self that feels shame every time you touch your pussy"

    I read that while I was fondling myself and LOLd

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  19. Maybe you can explain what 'feeling like a woman' means exactly?

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  20. You are very honest Joe.

    "In hindsight, I replaced one fantasy with another, but the former was far less productive than the current."

    This is exactly what trans identity was to me. Replacing one set of denials and delusions with another. Its so complicated...of course there is a ton of self hatred involved in wanting to mutilate your body but theres an element of self preservation too.

    I don't regret going through that phase in my life because I wouldn't have survived otherwise. Some realities are so awful that our minds bend and break trying to accomodate them. Better for the body to break, but how WRONG is it that it comes to that bleak choice? I knew the decision not to transition was the end of ALL fantasies, not just the 'male' fantasy and that was terrifying.

    Everywhere there are open discussions about drug abuse and self harm as coping mechanisms NOT cures, but when the drug is T and cutting is done by a surgeon theres a big silence.

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  21. "I've always lived in large cities where there are large and varied lesbian scenes."

    I wonder where you grew up, and where would I find a large and varied lesbian scene? Where I live, the GLBT Center has three transgender groups (transgender group, SOFA-T - Significant Others, Friends and Family of Transgender), and a FTM group. Also, the last time I checked, there were three groups for queer identified individuals.

    The Women's Group is just another transgender/transssexual group because women means self-identified women which might or might not include a person with a penis.

    There are ZERO groups for lesbians at this GLBT center. This city has a population of 470,956. If one ads in the outlying areas, the population is at least half a million. Again, where will I find a large and varied lesbian scene?

    "As a "masculine" woman, I rarely felt targeted or victimized on the street or in any other place."

    I'm not exactly sure what a "masculine" woman is. Isn't it possible that "masculine" essentially is whatever society says it is, and that masculinity and feminity are roles dictated by whatever society one lives in. As to "transitioning", one takes on the stereotypical appearance of a societal influenced role of what is appropriate appearance and behavior.

    "If anything, in my town, people put butches on a pedestal for being so "brave".

    Perhaps this person does, indeed, live in a very special town. I've identified as butch lesbian for twenty years, and I can say with all certainty that I've never felt as if society as placed butches on a pedestal. Of course, I've had dear lesbian friends who respect butch lesbians, and are proud lesbians, but society does not put butch lesbians on a pedestal for "bravery". I've been called "lez", "dyke", or "bulldagger" too many times to count, and by the tone of voice I knew it certainly wasn't a term of endearment.

    As I recall, one person posted on this blog that he or she would rather have his or her daughter grow up to be a transman and get the respect from being a man than be steered to being a carpetmucher who gets no respect. This comment was seared into my mind, and I never forgot it, and probably never will.

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  22. "If misogyny irrationally informs the entire world's perspective, then I witnessed the vehement reaction to that as irrational as well and I don't trust it."

    In all honesty, I don't understand this sentence. Historically, the mutilation of the female body in one form or another is ancient. From Chinese footbinding to female genital mutilation in Africa, it appears to be a constant throughout history. Moreover, how can any female completely separate herself from the culture in which she is raised and nurtured? If there was full and complete equality between the sexes, then I would be more willing to accept the idea that internalized misogyny plays no role in FTM transitioning. It simply does not because girls are bombarded with images of female inferiority from the craddle on. The majority of trans identified individuals I've come across won't even entertain the possibility that internalized misogyny might play a role in the large increase in female to male "transitioning".

    "I don't feel shame when I take T. I don't feel like a woman at all. I never have."

    To me, it's interesting how the words "transition" and "T" have slowly crept into our vocabulary. Since I'm over forty, I can say with certainty that I've seen a dramatic increase in the use of "T". Indeed, its use is becoming so common that it's just called "T" now instead of what it really is. Testosterone is produced by the testes in males, and is part of the male reproductive system. Females produce very small amounts of testosterone naturally, but never in the amount that males produce. As to "transitioning", this usually means surgery (elective masectomies in healthy young women) and "T" which, by the way, some women have had to stop because of side effects.

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  23. Dirt, you said this: 'Its that self that feels shame every time you touch your pussy or the breast tissue still remaining or the scars across your chest or view your still very womanly hips and thighs. In a nutshell the female you have so desperately tried to bury who refuses to die.

    dirt'

    Well I'd just like to say that I'm 'transgendered' and I don't feel any shame at all, I'm very happy with my body shape. I'm a qualified personal trainer and my body shape is far more 'masculine' than a lot of my male friends!
    Biological males have 'tissue' where their chest are (some more than others!)
    Before hormones I spent every day hating my body. I remember being literally about 5 years old, I would cry to my mum every night because I knew I was a boy. I'd hit myself in the chest in the hope that breasts wouldn't go there and other crazy things!
    I've never felt more at peace with myself or the world now. So I think it's wrong to say that you know for SURE every transgendered person regrets their decision. For some people (like myself) it's the best decision they've ever made. If it makes me happy then that's all that matters, we only live once. :)
    Lew

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  24. Just to add, I've browsed through your other blogs and noticed you had similar issues with 'breasts' when you were younger too. If I belittled what you went through then I apologize for that. Probably not the best reference to use!
    Was just trying to express my desperation for the male physique. It was more than just hatred for my 'breasts' obviously, that was just one example. That hatred for my body lasted up until my late teens and it faded away when I started to feel comfortable with my body as I worked hard at the gym and started hormones and developed secondary male characteristics.
    It wasn't a miracle cure for my life in general, there are other things to worry about like jobs, money, relationships etc! It just put me at peace with my body, and I could never regret that
    Lew

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  25. "If there was full and complete equality between the sexes, then I would be more willing to accept the idea that internalized misogyny plays no role in FTM transitioning."

    I can't accept the idea that your opinion is formed from anything but your own personal struggle. What you experience as a woman may suck but it does not negate the existence of transpeople.

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  26. I'm impressed at your ability to read the minds of every single trans person and know exactly how they feel regarding transition.My only regret is that I didn't transition sooner and that I was born before hormone blockers were possible. We all know that we will never have a standard male body, but through hormones and surgery we can make our bodies as close as possible and live socially and legally as men. It's not perfect but for me, testosterone literally saved my life and it's saved the lives of many others.

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  27. "My only regret is that I didn't transition sooner and that I was born before hormone blockers were possible."

    As to puberty suppressing drugs for "gender dysphoric" twelve and thirteen year old children, the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria" or GID in children is problematic as it is. At this age, how is it possible to distinguish between GID and parental disgust at having a sissy little boy or tomboy girl? How much is cultural influences? Do nine, ten, eleven, or twelve year old kids really know who they are? Children are being diagnosed with GID at much earlier ages.

    If cross gender hormones are given immediately after puberty suppressing drugs, it's my understanding that future fertility can be compromised. The issue of sterilizing children all in the name of transgender does, in my opinion, entail some serious ethical issues that no one has the courage to dare whisper. Puberty suppressing drugs are used for early or precocious puberty and a few other medical conditions, but their use for "gender dysphoria" in children is a new phenomenon. If we are going to experiment on children, we really need to know what we are doing.

    When I was a kid, I was a bit of a tomboy. I used to play baseball with my brother. I am very HAPPY that my parents didn't drag me from therapist to therapist until they found someone who would slap a label of "gender dyshporia" or GID on me. Then, start with the puberty suppressing drugs right before I started puberty, followed by testosterone and surgery. This tomboy who used to beat my brother at baseball loves her female body. I'm very thankful that I didn't get my breasts surgically removed.

    By way, "transitioning" never ends because cross gender hormones have to be taken for life.

    "If there was full and complete equality between the sexes, then I would be more willing to accept the idea that internalized misogyny plays no role in FTM transitioning."

    In reality, how many women in our society or most cultures really feel good about their bodies? I don't see how any rational person can state that the majority of females don't to some degree constantly internalize a barrage of negative images of women. Historically, the mutilation of women's bodies in one form or another certainly isn't new. How is it possible to completely distinguish between “gender dysphoria” and internalized misogyny which no doubt does occur? Is it possible to completely separate a young female from her culture? Moreover, some FTMs have said that they transition because they want the status and privilege of being seen as male. In many cases, it does appear as an escape from a misogynistic society that constantly devalues women. Do we dare ask this question. Is transitioning just another form of the mutilation of female bodies? It's not like the mutilation of female bodies hasn't repeatedly occurred throughout recorded history. There are some very serious ethical issues that transgender simply refuse to acknowledge.

    I dream of a day when women no longer have to take chemicals or undergo surgery to feel good about themselves. In all honesty, I seriously doubt this day will ever come, but this is my dream.

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  28. "In many cases, it does appear as an escape from a misogynistic society that constantly devalues women."

    but one that truly values transsexuals? Why will no one answer this? Because your logic is flawed, that's why.

    What does male-to-female transition represent then? Oh, that's right, those are just men trying to co-opt authentic female-ness, whatever that means.

    You can't reduce a person's experience in this world and in their body to purely social factors. Do not discount the physical experience of inhabiting you body just because you don't know how that feels personally. Do not discount an individual spiritual connection to physical masculinity or femininity just because you don't experience that. I refuse to acknowledge or accept an oversimplified relationship of pure individual to society when there are countless other ways we exist and relate in this world as people. Also, transitioning does not preclude the countless other ways we exist and grow as humans, despite your fixation on the physical process.

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  29. transsexualism or transitionism seems then more like a religious belief-system than anything

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  30. ...but one [society that constantly devalues women] that truly values transsexuals? Why will no one answer this? Because your logic is flawed, that's why.


    I don't think most transsexuals are tying to 'pass' as transsexuals but rather as the opposite sex. When it's women trying to be perceived as men a great deal of their goal seems to be avoiding being 'treated like a woman' which does indeed generally mean not treated very well.

    What does male-to-female transition represent then? Oh, that's right, those are just men trying to co-opt authentic female-ness, whatever that means.

    From what I've learned about male-to-female transitioners, they seem to be mostly middle-aged men who eroticize the idea of themselves as a usually twisted notion of what a woman is 'supposed' to be; the younger ones are either discouraged from 'sissy' behavior from youth (more aligned with the common trajectory of the FTM) or are 'chicks with dicks' who provide sexual service to males who pretend to be straight.

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  31. "transsexualism or transitionism seems then more like a religious belief-system than anything"

    "From what I've learned about male-to-female transitioners, they seem to be mostly middle-aged men who eroticize the idea of themselves as a usually twisted notion of what a woman is 'supposed' to be;"

    Neither of you have any desire to learn or know anything other than what you already think and believe, which is a product of your putrid disposition towards self-righteous judgment and condemnation. That is a specific kind of hell to be trapped in. If you cannot question yourselves, or what you "learn" from the internet, you are *already* corpses.

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  32. I don't learn these things from 'the internet;' I have a lifetime of experience watching people 'transition' and learning first-hand their reasons they believe they were 'born in the wrong bodies.' And it is indeed a belief system.

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  33. I have always seen MUCH more 'self-righteous judgement and condemnation' coming from trans-believers toward non-believers than the other way around. Most skeptics usually only try to use reason to discuss the topic while the (trans)genderists very often hurl a great deal of invective. There is a lot of cult-like behavior. Questioning is forbidden.

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  34. (I mean any questioning of the ideas behind transsexualism is forbidden, considered 'hate')

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  35. Oh, so you are some kind of inside operative? Are you pretending to be some kind of friend to your trans friends, while privately putting yourself in the position of judging, exposing weaknesses to haters? Tell me, do any of your trans friends get to be in the position of judging your life, your sexuality, your body, your choices, your feelings? Are your words carefully measured against someone else's ethical/ logical matrix? I hope not.

    The reason there is a great deal of invective is that we exist in a time which does not accept or understand us to be *fully* human. You reduce us to some kind of "religious" belief while we understand of lives and selves to be fully human and whole, separate from gender also, as all humans should be allowed to exist. You cannot use "reason" to dissect us when your "reason" is indoctrinated. Have you ever actually wondered if it might be, in fact, totally fine to be trans and transition? If there is any problem in it besides your discomfort? If your discomfort could possibly be informed by society's pre-existing disparagement of transsexuals?


    Of course you are free to question, but don't act like such a victim when you get it shoved back in your face. I could "reason" that there is no biological basis for the amount of homosexuality that's occurring nowadays, and no biological purpose for these kinds of couplings, but I'd sure expect to hear from gay people about the truths of their lives and loves, in which my opinion has no meaning. I witnessed a cult-like attachment to lesbianism and the desperate cries of lesbian superiority to other loves reeked of falseness. Especially when so many loud converts ended up with men in then end. I believe dogma is for weak minds, but I also don't need to spout or believe dogma to be who I am, to have transitioned, to live as I see fit. And it is fit.

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  36. I don't like nose jobs, not even crazy about hair-dye- all narcissistic, all about deception- I see no difference between a person looking in the mirror and thinking there's a person of a different gender inside and an older woman (like my mother unfortunately) looking in the mirror and deciding she's supposed to look younger and so undergoes a face-lift (or a thin girl who looks in her mirror and thinks she's fat) (or any kind of psychotic who believes falsehoods created in the brain are real) were my beliefs indoctrinated? no, by whom? my theories are my own. I don't ascribe to any 'feminist' platform either. and of course I think you're human. I'm not sure what 'fully human' means. 'trans' people have not been my
    friends, just people i've met over the years. there would be much conflict for me in repeated close contact with people with whom I have such ideological differences, like I'm not friends with republicans, and I don't get along with my mother.

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  37. my discomfort (with transsexualism) could possibly be informed by society's pre-existing belief in people fitting into gender roles and my disbelief in the same.

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  38. Jeez kid. Call your mother. You only get one per lifetime, whereas your judgemental opinions may change.

    As far as gender roles go, I still find it hard to believe that so many people here are willing to publicly reduce transition to a pure relationship between a body and society. Aren't you basically revealing that you have no intimate relationship with your own body? Do not discount the physical experience of inhabiting one's body just because you haven't been so lucky.

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  39. The idea of 'inhabiting' one's body as though it is some kind of machine separate from the almighty (and gendered) Mind which controls it and alters it to make this Mind as 'comfortable' as possible within this body Is very bizarre to me and sure doesn't seem 'lucky!'

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  40. I am a musician and I rely on my body (my hands especially, but the whole thing in a way) to cooperate with my thoughts in order to make music- does this count as 'body habitation?' Or does inhabiting one's body exclusively mean as a gender or sex? I realize that the mind/body disconnect is the common view these days (and, I feel, why so many people are medicated); transists claiming this disconnect and the accompanying body customization as progressive seems backwards to me. (My mother has many mental problems, her body-image obsession is one manifestation of these problems.)

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  41. I am a musician too, and an artist. I'm not one to go in for platitudes, so I don't think presenting two choices of 1)gendered habitation of the body or 2) non-gendered habitation of the body is exactly in good faith on your part. Like I have stressed so many times before, you, along with so many others here are mentally stuck in arguing with the physical process of transition for much longer than we actually transition! I accept that this is who we "are" to other people who don't experience what we do, but it is just as reductionist to see gay people as a only a function of the gay sex they are having. If you are inclined to think you should judge other people's lives, then you will get stuck on the one thing that separates people from your norm. If you focus on trolling YouTube for videos of trans teens, who are very much focused on physical transition, than you will inevitably end up with a negative picture of all transition. Many teens are annoying in so many ways, but when you judge trans teens, you hold us all accountable to a level of superficiality we do not all possess. This is a very dangerous, bifurcated way to present things to your own mind.

    I never felt particularly at odds with my physical form, but I also don't fall for alarmist language that calls my transition "mutilation". I've always felt pretty integrated but not female. We are all just one thing, aren't we? I give my body the chance to express a biological, physical reality that represents how I feel. I can respect that you are alarmed and think of it is backward, because maybe you want to preserve the sanctity of your body, but I don't feel that I've sacrificed the sanctity of my body in any way.

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    1. Naw, it's not about 'samctity' of anyone's body to me- just seems generally regressive for society at large to cling on to this putting 'I like to wear/ do (or think) these things therefore I'm male/female' above nature and freedom to wear/do/think whatever one likes without these things being 'gendered' either by oneself (usually with a very cut-and-dry childlike mindset) or by others- basically I don't think people are in need of any 'correction' - not fittimg the mold doesn't mean something is 'wrong' with you- if amything tramssexualism looks like it's stemming our human evolution beyond these limiting ideas

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  42. and isn't transitioning essentially endless? I know if a transman goes off testosterone her body's female functions resume

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  43. "Naw, it's not about 'samctity' of anyone's body to me- just seems generally regressive for society at large to cling on to this putting 'I like to wear/ do (or think) these things therefore I'm male/female' above nature and freedom to wear/do/think whatever one likes without these things being 'gendered' either by oneself (usually with a very cut-and-dry childlike mindset) "

    I think, in some cases, young trans people may have a limited conceptual matrix from which to judge their gender. I cringe when watching some of those YouTube videos too. I'm not in a position to deny their identities, though. I'm more worried that they grow up to be conscious, sentient, compassionate humans, rather than what form they take. I don't have any vested interest in their bodies, in and of themselves. There is no virtue in either transitioning or not transitioning. The way I see it, there is absolute virtue in constantly questioning your assumptions, holding yourself to your own standards, and in humility-which is to say not believing yourself superior to others before further investigation.

    In considering transition, I thought, "Well of course it's what i want". Fuck a gender based on "boy's" clothes, toys, activities. I did all that stuff as an adult "female" but that didn't make me trans any more than it made my butch female friends trans. Besides, so many of my friends were queeny ftm's that I felt, if anything, unpopularly masculine and boring.

    My questions to myself before transition were:
    "Are they gonna kill me because I'm transsexual?"
    "Will my parents disown me?"
    "Will my friends leave me?"
    "Can I deal with the hatred this world has for transsexuals?"
    "Will I ever, EVER be able to let this go if I *don't* transition?"
    "What are the responsibilities of gaining all that male privilege?"
    "Do I only want this because of privilege or is it really who I am?"
    " Can I deal with being a dickless man?"
    " Will anyone ever love me?"
    and
    "What if I lose all my hair?"

    As far as people needing correction for not fitting the mold, I just don't see that the evidence bears out. Just because some people transition doesn't mean all people are forced to transition. Jesus, *nobody* fits a mold where I live, regardless of gender, body or anything. I get that you consider it a regressive idea. Just keep in mind that, in a few years, the pendulum will swing back and it will be wildly popular to NOT transition, and people will hold non-transitioning, gender-nonconforming people high up on pedestals. And that will be just as much bullshit as any kind of popularity garnered for transitioning is now. And the pendulum will keep swinging back and forth, and everyone will eventually have to live with themselves and their decisions as their own.

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  44. Most transmen opt for hysterectomies when they can. The body does not produce much estrogen when the ovaries are gone, so going off testosterone will not cause much feminization, but some effects of testosterone will lessen. I think maybe beard hair gets less coarse. Voice may go up a little. It's essentially the same as a post-menopausal woman. It's not good because testosterone and estrogen maintain bone density, so one probably should have one or the other. I have heard that you can cut back on T if you want after a hysto.

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  45. I'm a transman and proud of my "child-bearing" hips. They give me better balance, I'm less likely to be knocked over and have a more solid foundation. Plus, better leverage. heh

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  46. To the person above saying the voice will go up when you stop testosterone, you're a moron. The voice will be set at whatever it is, and the only way to make it higher again is through voice training, if that is what said person wants.

    Also, a large amount of transmen opt to keep their reproductive system (if there is no health issues) because otherwise, having it removed they will then need to take oestrogen supplements to keep their hormones in balance (yes, everyone needs both oestrogen and testosterone in their body).

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