Change Your World-NOT your Body

Tuesday, June 26, 2012

Transmen, Childbirth and a New Baby-Boom?

According to some in trans health fields, we are on the verge of a trans baby boom. Meaning more and more trans females are giving or seeking to give birth. While there were a handful of trans females who had given birth before Ms. Beatie became ignorantly known as the "pregnant man", it was after her fifteen minutes of fame that other trans females seeking a similar fame got themselves pregnant. I suspect this potential trans baby boom is a combination of attention seeking trans females and trans females who have in their warped trans minds convinced themselves that after giving birth they can further validate their manhood by being viewed as fathers.

In and of itself you might think, as women, besides the obvious feminist issues this disorder and its cruel treatment evoke, trans females having children really has little to nothing to do with me. Wrong. Because this specific function, the ability to create a life within and give birth to that life, is wholly a female experience. And as such, herein lies the problem when it comes to trans thinking, if only female humans have the ability to give birth, and a trans female (transman) gives birth, is the birth experience no longer a female experience?

From a recent article: Within the needs of trans people in pregnancy and birth is the challenge of addressing what seems like an obvious connection: between pregnancy and femaleness. Trans people are often neglected in the arena of pregnancy and birth because of the strongly-held notion that only female-identified people experience pregnancy and birth. While not all trans people, whether they were assigned female at birth or not, can experience pregnancy (because of infertility or hysterectomy), some can and do, prompting the need for our pregnancy and birth providers to accommodate.

Feminists have long fought against trans males (autogynephiles) aggressively co-opting female spaces, calling into question the female experience and currently calling into question the very notion of female. This in hopes that by undermining female legitimacy they can linguistically slip their maleness into the newly hollowed female in some Silence of the Lambs like way, giving trans males the female legitimacy they lack as men. Add this insanity to trans females whom are legally (visually) recognized as men having babies and now combining their efforts with the efforts of autogynephiles, further destabilizing not merely the semantics of female BUT the very NATURE of female!

I am the first to scream that female needs to be released from the Gender Straight Jacket that continues to bind and gag her, but subverting the nature of female and the female experience is clearly no way to go about it! Female doesnt simply have a her-story, she has an undeniable biology that nothing can weaken, no amount of drugs to her system, no removal of any healthy body part or parts and certainly no post modern semantics! These are indisputable truths sealed in the seeds of nature, but the laws of man unfortunately do not comply with the laws of nature. And in a civilized society we're conditioned to eschew the laws of nature for the laws of man (patriarchy). It is these laws, man's laws that have the potential to bankrupt female, thereby fostering a greater misogyny creating more self hating females and the circle goes 'round and 'round.

I'll save the harmful effects testosterone use (short and long term) have and can have on a growing fetus and button my lips on the high number of autistic children born to trans females already and avoid making any comparisons to trans baby boom babies being the thalidomide babies of the 21st century.

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29 comments:

  1. Thank you. Clear, concise, logical. Just the way women think.

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  2. Dirt, you are brilliant. If there were any justice, you would have a book deal.

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  3. Just the idea of this leaves my jaw on the floor! To be so utterly and completely delusional that you could initiate, then follow though with what has to be the penultimate and defining role of female.

    All the while saying to anyone who will listen to your idiotic rantings that you're a dude? Owwww... Give me a moment! Every time I try to say that my jaw hits the floor again!

    There, we are back in socket, so now, let me get this straight... You, "the dude" are going to be impregnated with a MAN'S sperm, (you know, that icky white stuff men make in their testes and prostate and that comes out of his penis when he orgasms?)

    So, that when you are ovulating, (you know, ova, menstrual cycles, being in sync with the moon, fertile those three days of the month, etc etc) and then, after implantation of the now fertilized egg in your womb. You will carry the foetus to term, and then, you will deliver said baby through your vagina. After which, if you have not lopped em off yet, you will then breast feed your baby...

    But despite this, you still want me and everyone one else to think you're a dude and you want me to act out this charade with you, calling you him and he and dude, lest I be branded as one of them thar transphobic hating bitchs!

    Ahhh yeah right... Why I always say dude to any one I see nursing a child from their breast, and when I am done that, can I also buy that bridge you are selling?

    MKIA

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  4. Actually, they are just people who want to have babies. I've met a few of these kids and they are perfect. No autism, no missing limbs. For that matter, autism is on the rise in the general population. What a huge load of bullshit you speak. Whatever your outrage is about, their right to procreate, have families, and live their lives the way they see fit takes precedence. Sorry.

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  5. I don't know... I'm a trans man and even I have a problem with this concept of trans men having babies. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but how does one reconcile viewing one's self as male with being pregnant at the same time? I couldn't do it. Childbirth is a biological female ability but one you shouldn't be too glad about having if you're female. It should be a female-only experience I guess and trans women unfortunately can't experience it (although I've no idea whether they want to or not)... Now I feel like I'm telling people how to be trans, which isn't a thing that can/should be done, but damn it if you're ok with the most female biological process that exists, you can't be having debilitating body dysphoria... I just don't know anymore...

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  6. *Shouldn't be too glad to have if you're a trans man I meant, as it would conflict with your other beliefs (I would think)

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  7. "I don't know... I'm a trans man and even I have a problem with this concept of trans men having babies."

    I think you are fine to feel whatever way you want to about it. Honestly. It won't change the fact that these people are working with what they have. Our lives are bigger than gender (no matter that some people want to reduce us) and we have our whole life processes to go through as humans-besides being trans. Sometimes that means wanting a family more than anything else. Some people have always wanted children and their partners can't have them. I can't relate *myself*, but I am far from telling other people what to do with their bodies.

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  8. 11:44 PM
    You nailed it!

    "damn it if you're ok with the most female biological process that exists, you can't be having debilitating body dysphoria..."

    That right there is the entire problem with "trans" in a nutshell! For those rare few who actually do suffer from an incurable physical dysphoria. Those oh so rare for whom the palliative medical treatment of transition is justified as a humanitarian act. Why, just the very idea of something so completely female would be utterly abhorrent! To actually carry through with it would be nigh unto impossible!

    For all the rest? That they are not only untroubled by the idea but actually supportive of it is proof positive they are shamelessly using a stolen narrative to justify this illogical idiocy called "trans!"

    Look! The word is "transsexual" and they thank god, are damned rare! Thankfully so, because all the ones I know would give their eye teeth to not be so cursed! Transgender on the other hand, is an obfuscation term created by a man to justify an utterly male fetish run amuck in a world where aping the female would jeopardize his and others male privilege! A word that was and is about as misogynistic in intent and in deed as is possible! That this ugly word has been shortened by the legions chaffing at their gender roles, not their sex, but their gender roles to become "trans" does not in anyway lessen the misogyny that lies behind it!

    Trans = The erasure of female!
    MKIA

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  9. "Now I feel like I'm telling people how to be trans, which isn't a thing that can/should be done, but damn it if you're ok with the most female biological process that exists, you can't be having debilitating body dysphoria... I just don't know anymore"

    Question: If you can't tell someone 'how to be trans' then what does trans even mean?

    If debilitating dysphoria is optional... And identifying as the opposite sex is optional (genderqueers)... And modifying your body is optional (non-op, no-ho)... And wanting to pass socially as a member of the opposite sex is optional... (FtMtF - seriously, google) Then what is it?

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  10. It's the "trans" women that have the autism, not just the children of these women.

    Autism is the only explantion for the astounding disconnect these women have from their bodies. I have known many women who suffered sexual abuse as children but who still accepted their own body parts. They may have gained weight, or kept themselves covered, but they did these things as a way to protect their parts from further abuse. For them, weight gain and hiding the body were acts of self-love.

    The bizarre disconnect of paying to have healthy body parts removed because they bother and annoy you
    sounds autistic to me. I am sympathetic to autism, by the way, and do not judge the condition, but I do blame the medical establishment for profiting from such a disability.
    I do feel for Chaz Bono, and am sad for her lifelong isolation from society and her own body. But I will not accept her fantasy of being a man, and I wil always view her as a saddened woman.

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  11. "For all the rest? That they are not only untroubled by the idea but actually supportive of it is proof positive they are shamelessly using a stolen narrative to justify this illogical idiocy called "trans!"

    Ah, the word that killed us all! A stolen narrative! We should be policing these people better! There should be a review board of feminist lesbians in control of whether or not people are legitimately trans enough to transition! One must be on the brink of suicide before they are allowed to transition. There should be a review board of straight men in control of whether or not lesbians are really lesbian, not just those who have been "hurt by men", those who have been with men and actually enjoyed it but think lesbianism is some kind of "safer space". That's a stolen narrative! Citizens rise up! More policing is necessary

    Like I said before, I'd be happy as a clam if the word "trans" was replaced with "NONEOFYOURFUCKING BUSINESS". Which it is...none of your fucking business.

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  12. if it's none of anybody's fucking business why exactly is it grouped with being gay? if gay people aren't allowed to discuss or even think about ir?

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  13. "It's the "trans" women that have the autism, not just the children of these women.
    Autism is the only explantion for the astounding disconnect these women have from their bodies."

    Autistics are definitely not more separated from their bodies as normal people, where'd you get that bizarre idea from?

    However, it is true that autistics don't incorporate societal ideas and societal role-play (like gender) as much as normal people do. That's like part of the condition, being blind for social and often subconscious societal pressure and indoctrination. (Btw, that's a really nice part of it.)

    But, yes, as such, a problem *will* occur when society suddenly starts to demand certain behaviour that the autist in question totally can't relate to - from which they, given current societies ideological framework, may infer they have the wrong body.

    But, that still means the problem is with *society*. Duh.

    And I don't believe trans are autistics, they act too "homo sapiens"-group-like aggressive for that ("hur dur let's hunt one person with a group of 10+ !!!1!") and their ideologies certainly don't have enough logic for that.

    Also, autism is societally defined (like 90% of the DSM-IV) and since social roles have become stricter while the social sphere has expanded greatly since the last decade, I dare to say it has not anything to do with *biology* that "autism" is on the rise. Don't you see how strict and narrow social bullshit(including gender) has become? And therefore now like 80% of elementary schoolers has some "disorder" (including those pertaining to gender). Rrright.

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  14. "if it's none of anybody's fucking business why exactly is it grouped with being gay? if gay people aren't allowed to discuss or even think about ir?"

    Maybe the assumption was made that trans was just a tiny phenomenon. You could feel sorry for us. Maybe you liked us better when we didn't take up space. I'd take a good, long hard look at that feeling.

    You'll have to form a gay separatist movement I guess. Personally I question the wisdom of that, in a time when other divisions amongst humans such as race and class will probably take precedence in the coming decades. I think our identity subdivisions are bourg-y, and a luxury afforded to us in times of relative peace and prosperity. But go ahead! You will never convince me that trans is a threat to gay, or that we are stooges for the machine. I just see too much contradictory evidence in the trans community every day.

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  15. "And I don't believe trans are autistics, they act too "homo sapiens"-group-like aggressive for that ("hur dur let's hunt one person with a group of 10+ !!!1!")"

    What the fuck are you even talking about?

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  16. Testosterone and fetal development..
    Something to think about

    A new study offers some clues into the mystery of why autism is four times more common in males than in females.

    The results show that testosterone and estrogen have opposite effects on a gene nicknamed RORA. In neurons, testosterone lowers the ability of cells to express, or turn on, the RORA gene, while estrogen raises it.

    "Autism has a huge sex bias, and it's been proposed that higher levels of fetal testosterone may put a fetus at risk," said study researcher Valerie Hu, professor of biochemistry and molecular biology at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. "We've provided an explanation of how this works."

    Normally, RORA's job in cells is to turn on several other genes, Hu said. When a cell has high levels of testosterone, RORA levels run low, which affects every gene that RORA is supposed to turn on. The researchers based their findings on tests of neurons growing in lab dishes.

    The research does not show that low levels of RORA cause autism, only that they are associated with the condition, Hu said. But other research has suggested that a RORA deficiency could explain many of the effects seen in autism.

    The findings fit with ideas about autism proposed by researchers led by Simon Baron-Cohen, the director of the Autism Research Centre at the University of Cambridge in England, Hu said. Baron-Cohen proposed that high levels of testosterone in a fetus were correlated with autistic traits, and his work has demonstrated that high testosterone levels in the amniotic fluid are associated with the condition.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41671269/ns/health-mental_health/t/testosterone-may-bump-autism-rates-males/

    Elevated levels of testosterone in the womb are thought to contribute to the development of autism. However, if the RORA gene is faulty in a female fetus, it would be less susceptible to a build-up of testosterone because the fetus has higher levels of oestrogen to begin with. What's more, female sex hormones are likely to promote any RORA that is expressed, rather than further repress it.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20143-faulty-testosterone-cycle-may-explain-male-autism-bias.html

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  17. "What the fuck are you even talking about?"

    LOL I was wondering the same thing about that comment. The only thing I can think of is that it may be a reference to the recent NYC Pride discussion/confrontation between a trans-critical radfem (I forget which one) and a group of trans people?

    Re. gay separatist movement -- there are a few radfem dykes who are for this, including dirt it seems. I'm a separatist too but not based on sexuality; I discriminate and separate from (or connect with) people based on their human character, not their label, physical characteristics, or what they do or don't do to their bodies.

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  18. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists on breastfeeding

    "The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists strongly supports breastfeeding and calls on its Fellows, other health care professionals caring for women and their infants, hospitals, and employers to support women in choosing to breastfeed their infants."

    Wait...transmen don't have breasts although they get pregnant. Can they nurse their babies without any breasts?

    http://www.acog.org/Resources_And_Publications/Committee_Opinions/Committee_on_Health_Care_for_Underserved_Women/Breastfeeding_Maternal_and_Infant_Aspects

    I read somewhere that Thomas Beatie's wife breast fed one of "his" children through chemically induced lactation. Thomas Beatie was the biological trans female or FTM who got pregnant not once, not twice, but three times.

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  19. "the recent NYC Pride discussion/confrontation between a trans-critical radfem (I forget which one) and a group of trans people"

    Ah, I see. I just watched the video. I had no idea that this had happened. I don't know the full story, but it seems as if perhaps this wasn't a strategic venue for Brennan to be creating "female-born only" space. Attacking her will only increase her sense of martyrdom.

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  20. @ Anon 6:39: I didn't know there was a video of it, I'll look for it. I think it's great that the trans group approached Brennan in hopes of dialogue and it's too bad that the communication broke down/was unable to happen (I don't know all the details either, just going by the info I read on a couple radfem blogs).

    It's the most uncomfortable conversations that need to be had if we hope for things to ever change or foster some sort of understanding and RESPECT between the "community". For that to happen though, I think we all need lessons in how to be Human before we start talking "politics", if the personal is indeed political.

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  21. It's not because there's been a massive increase in transsexualism that I don't think it should be connected to the gay-rights movement; I just feel that they are unrelated things and I always have. Nobody has ever convinced me that LGB+T makes any sense.

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  22. Yeah, LGB+T doesn't make much sense except I guess when T's identify as L, G, or B, which brings us back around to this blog and radfems who reject the T identity fullstop. And round and round it goes.

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  23. why is not believing in the Transist theory considered 'radical?' is that just a way to make belief in reality above fantasy or gender-obsessed narcissism seem extremist/nutty?

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  24. In my opinion, this is nothing more than having one’s cake and eating it too, or having the best of both worlds with some calculated, added benefits. For FTMs, they get a slice of male privilege and status, and at the same time they expect people to pamper and fuss over them during the nine months that they carry a fetus. In essence, they denounce their womanhood or female sex, legally change their gender, then expect women to dote over them and lovingly attend to their needs in the way that women have always supported and nurtured each other during pregnancy. Thomas Beatie delivered three babies after he legally changed his gender to male. “He” made a decision to deliberately keep his ovaries and uterus just so “he” could get pregnant. Who is Thomas Beatie? If one googles his name, early photographs of “him” in long black hair and wearing a brighty colored blouse and skirt pop up. When Thomas the “pregnant man” FTM was young, “he” was a strinkingly beautifu,l dark haired teenage beauty queen. Thomas certainly didn’t look the least bit masculine in those earlier photos. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I read somewhere that one of the reasons that Thomas decided to “transition” and legally change his gender was because he wanted to legally marry Nancy, his ex-wife. Few states allow same sex marriage.
    It is simply is illogical to claim that you are male and at the same time keep your female organs then get pregnant three times. Motherhood is inheriently a female experience. Ten years ago, pregnant FTMs were a rarity. Now, all a person has to do is google it, and hundreds of sites and blogs appear. Even babybump in the UK has a group for pregnant FTMs.
    http://babybump.alt12.com/community/groups/92-general-pregnancy/posts/1699156-uk-ftms

    Although I’m not a physician, no doctor is going to give any pregnant woman testosterone. Some doctors say that testosterone should be discontinued at least 6 weeks prior to pregnancy.
    “In conclusion, testosterone should be discontinued at least 6 weeks prior to pregnancy in order to prevent its negative effects on a potentially female fetus.”
    (source: http://jamespatemd.com/blog/?p=574)

    This is my question. What happens if an FTM, or any woman for that matter, gets pregnant while on testosterone? Some transmen still have sex with men. Indeed, this is more common than people think. Some transmen even have sex with gay men. There are safe sex booklets just for transmen and the men who love them. As I understand it, testosterone is usually the first stage in “transitioning” before breast surgery. So, it makes sense that some of these young women might still be sleeping with men.

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  25. In my opinion, this is nothing more than having one’s cake and eating it too, or having the best of both worlds with some calculated, added benefits. For FTMs, they get a slice of male privilege and status, and at the same time they expect people to pamper and fuss over them during the nine months that they carry a fetus. In essence, they denounce their womanhood or female sex, legally change their gender, then expect women to dote over them and lovingly attend to their needs in the way that women have always supported and nurtured each other during pregnancy. Thomas Beatie delivered three babies after he legally changed his gender to male. “He” made a decision to deliberately keep his ovaries and uterus just so “he” could get pregnant. Who is Thomas Beatie? If one googles his name, early photographs of “him” in long black hair and wearing a brighty colored blouse and skirt pop up. When Thomas the “pregnant man” FTM was young, “he” was a strinkingly beautifu,l dark haired teenage beauty queen. Thomas certainly didn’t look the least bit masculine in those earlier photos. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I read somewhere that one of the reasons that Thomas decided to “transition” and legally change his gender was because he wanted to legally marry Nancy, his ex-wife. Few states allow same sex marriage.
    It is simply is illogical to claim that you are male and at the same time keep your female organs then get pregnant three times. Motherhood is inheriently a female experience. Ten years ago, pregnant FTMs were a rarity. Now, all a person has to do is google it, and hundreds of sites and blogs appear. Even babybump in the UK has a group for pregnant FTMs.
    http://babybump.alt12.com/community/groups/92-general-pregnancy/posts/1699156-uk-ftms

    Although I’m not a physician, no doctor is going to give any pregnant woman testosterone. Some doctors say that testosterone should be discontinued at least 6 weeks prior to pregnancy.
    “In conclusion, testosterone should be discontinued at least 6 weeks prior to pregnancy in order to prevent its negative effects on a potentially female fetus.”
    (source: http://jamespatemd.com/blog/?p=574)

    This is my question. What happens if an FTM, or any woman for that matter, gets pregnant while on testosterone? Some transmen still have sex with men. Indeed, this is more common than people think. Some transmen even have sex with gay men. There are safe sex booklets just for transmen and the men who love them. As I understand it, testosterone is usually the first stage in “transitioning” before breast surgery. So, it makes sense that some of these young women might still be sleeping with men.

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  26. "What happens if an FTM, or any woman for that matter, gets pregnant while on testosterone?"

    I wonder the same thing.

    I assume that Thomas Beattie went off synthetic testosterone when s/he got pregnant, and I would assume that doctors would advise FTM's to go off T during pregnancy. Another thing I wonder is if this 'extra' (synthetic) testosterone has the same effect on the fetus as naturally high levels of testosterone on natal pregnant females compared to average natural levels of testosterone?

    Re. breastfeeding: It is a shame if FTM's have to use formula for their babies if their breasts are gone, since natural milk is so much better (and cheaper!) for the child. "Chemical induced lactation": How much of/do these chemicals stay in the body and get passed to the baby?

    This ever growing tech-no-logic world opens up so many doors and questions...

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  27. I agree with many points that are made about the T not necessarily fitting in with the GLB part. And, (being of that "T" identity) I can also say that sometimes we don't particularly like being clumped in there either. But at the same time, I also have to wonder...is it really bothering you THAT much? Is it like...taking up THAT much of your energy to think that sometimes, when people talk about GLB issues, they occasionally throw in a T issue as well? You don't have to give a shit about it. You don't have to listen, pay attention, or do any damn thing. You don't have to have T friends (shoot, if you're gonna be this way, they probably don't want you either) and you don't have to read about T issues. There are a million ways that the world is severely messed up, and this is just not that big of a deal...There are so, so many problems that are prevalent in the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Queer communities (as well as the Trans community) that are MUCH bigger than worrying about where the T goes. Seriously.

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  28. no, EVERY gay or lesbian issue (at least here in NYC) is called an LGBT issue. it does matter to me. thanks for your 'just ignore it' advice though.

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  29. You're 100% right on this one. I identify as mostly trans, but I think it's ridiculous for anyone who claims to be a man to want to give birth. That is for women, naturally, and only for women. If you want to be pregnant, there is no way you are actually a MAN.

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