Thursday, June 7, 2012

Removing the L from the Queer Alphabet

As a lesbian, what do you think is the best way to remove ourselves from the queer ever growing alphabet?

How do you think regrouping and a sincere lesbian focus will help our lesbian youth? And the future of the lesbian community?

How has being drowned by the queer tide harmed us?



  1. When I was a kid just realizing I liked girls I didn't even understand why gay men and lesbians were grouped together since the men seemed to be coming from such a different (and usually extremely sexual, penis-centric) place. But I'm not really one for being part of any politicized 'group' anyhow. (Most of my friends have been gay men all my life by the way.)

  2. Whenever I post a comment on a website that calls gay/lesbian issues LGBT issues (simply suggesting that trans could be unrelated) my comments are never approved, while 'fudge-packers burn in hell' kind of things make it through...

  3. I fall under the "T" end of the spectrum, and have fully believed for a very, very long time that the "queer alphabet" needs to be dismantled entirely. I see acronyms like 'QUILTBAG' and I cringe. (queer, questioning, unidentified, intersex, lesbian, trans, bi, androgynous and gay -- doesn't it just make you want to toss your cookies?)

    What on Earth do all of those types of people (accepting that they all actually exist in great enough numbers to 'qualify' for a letter) have in common? Lesbians and gays have basic constructs such as marriage denied to them, and fight for equality. What rights does an androgynous person need to fight for? How are they discriminated against, denied equality? Unidentified?? Excuse me while I collapse into gales of laughter.

    Lesbians, to be topical, are never going to have their issues, concerns or even rights moved forward or taken seriously with 1,000 other non-lesbian voices chiming in with their two cents.

    It's ludicrous.

  4. I don't even think the idea of this 'spectrum' is real- it only enforces the straights' idea that 'trans' is some kind of 'ultra-gay.'

  5. At the Sacramento GLBT Center, there are three transgender groups, three queer identified groups, and not one single support group for lesbians. In reality, this is a GBTQ center. About a year ago, a young queer identified woman changed the women’s group to all “self-identified” women which now includes trans women and anyone who “self-identifies” as woman. In essence, the women’s group is just another trans group. It appears as if lesbians are an endangered, if not extinct species, at this particular center. The careful, astute observer will note that the youth groups are “queer youth”. The fact that some of these “queer youth” might eventually grow up to become gay, lesbian, or even heterosexual never crosses anyone’s mind. Everyone is thrown under the catch all, trendy, queer umbrella whether people like it or not.

    Below is the actual calendar of support groups and events at the GBTQ Center (sometimes called the GLBT) Center for May/June 2012.

    The calendar of support groups and activities can be seen by going to this URL:

    While glancing over this calendar of support groups and services, I noticed that the word “queer” was used approximately nine of ten times. I lost count of the number of times queer was used. The word “transgender” was used several times. The word “lesbian” was used zero times. The word lesbian is never used in any of the group descriptions or in the titles of the various groups. Of course, the letter “L” is still included in the title of the L Street Center out of sheer habit, but actual services or support groups for lesbians do not exist.

    Three transgender groups:

    (1.) Transgender Support Group
    (2.) SOFFA –T (Significant others, families, friends and allies of the transgender community)
    (3.) FTM Writing Group (female to male) transsexual

    Queer Identified Groups:

    (1.) Queer Women’s Events
    (2.) Queer Youth (Q Spot)
    (3.) 20 Something (Q Spot)

    Number of Lesbian Groups: Zero

  6. In an earlier post, I listed all the queer groups and trans groups at this particular GBTQ Center. Now, I would like to describe the women’s group. Below is the description for the Women’s Group. According to,

    Women’s Group:

    “The Women's Group is a peer support counseling group with emphases placed on the unique experiences of LGBTQA identified women. The group is welcoming of all self-identified women of all orientations, gender expressions, biological sexes, ages, abilities, ethnicities, relationship status, political views, and spiritual beliefs. The only requirement for participation is that an individual self-identifies as a woman, is looking to grow emotionally, and is open to supporting other women in the growth process.” (source:

    What this really means:

    Essentially, this means anyone who walks through the door and “self-identifies as a woman” is a woman. The letter “B” definitely would mean bisexual and the “Q” would mean queer. Yes, there are already three queer groups, but one can never have enough queer peer support groups. I suppose the letter “L” is in reference to lesbians. This single letter “L” is the only reference to lesbians that appears anywhere in this calendar of events and support groups. Unlike the words “queer” and “transgender” that are actual titles of support groups, the word “lesbian” itself is never used. However, they throw in the single letter “L” as a small token of inclusion, or as an attempt not to appear completely lesbian phobic. Of course, it all depends on how one defines the word lesbian. I have no idea what the “L” in this particular group description actually means. For example, some people might define lesbian as a human being with a penis, or a human being who used to have a penis. Please don’t laugh. Some people really do believe this. This definition of lesbian is more common than one thinks. For example, some MTF transsexuals who still have sex with women do, indeed, define themselves as lesbians. Again, I’m not sure about the letter “L”. Below are a few examples of MTF lesbians.

    Hi all!

    Name: Zoe
    Age: 43
    Location: NY, USA
    Gender ID: MTF
    Sexual Orientation: Lesbian
    Operative status: HRT, Pre-op
    Relationship Status: It's complicated

    Name: Melissa
    Age: 18
    Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
    Gender ID: MTF
    Sexual Orientation: Lesbian
    Operative status: pre-HRT and pre-op
    Relationship Status: Single

    Simply google “trans lesbians” or “MTF lesbians”. If a woman might or might not have a penis, does this also mean that a lesbian might or might not have a penis? This is an excellent question that could need some clarification. At any rate, I do not always assume that the “L” in LGBTQA means a genetic or biological female who is attracted to other women.

    The group description states, “the unique experiences of LGBTQA identified women” as if genetic males and genetic females share the exact same history and life experiences. I’m not sure what “A” means in LGBTQA. Also, I’m not sure about the “T” in LGBTQA. I suppose this means transgender. So, in addition to the possibility of women being genetic or biological males, I suppose some women are transgender. Please note that there are three transgender groups at the center on L Street. These include one transgender group, a SOFFA-T group, and the FTM group. So, it’s possible for individuals who use the services of the center on L Street to self-identify as BOTH transgender and women. It’s interesting to me that transgender is both a distinct community and at the same time self-identified women. As to the “Women’s Group”, there is no distinction between a pre-op MTF transsexual and a post-op MTF transsexual.

  7. (1.) In my opinion, the first thing lesbians have to do is to get as far away as possible from the GLBT centers. Most of them don’t give a rat’s patooty about us. It took me about two years to finally realize this.

    (2.) Lesbians also have to stop supporting the GLBT centers financially, and stop volunteering our time to organizations that literally don’t believe we even exist. I was a fool and volunteered at the Sacramento GLBT center.

    Every year at the pride parade and annual festival in downtown Sacramento, the Sacramento GLBT center fences off an area. They charge everyone $10 just to get into this fenced in area. Almost all the money goes to the GLBT center. They have the audacity to charge lesbians $10 to get into their fenced in area. What do lesbians get for their money? Why support organizations that don’t even know we exist. This is what should have happened.

    Let’s say that one hundred lesbians paid to get into their precious fenced in area. If all these lesbians pooled their money, that would be $1,000. With that money, we could use the money to have a nice party, meeting, or have a dyke march. Lesbians need to stop supporting organizations who can’t even say the word lesbian.

    (3.) People who don’t know their history are lost. This is why it’s imperative to keep our history alive. We have a proud history that is different than the queer folk. I’m not saying that the queer folk are bad people, but I’m so damn tired of being tossed under the catch all phrase of queer.

    By the way, Sappho didn’t live on the island of Queersbo. She lived on the island of Lesbos in the Aegean Sea.

  8. Here in NYC is just as bad. (Very masculine) gay men are of course the most catered to- Seens like the only people who call themselves lesbians anymore are senior citizens and men. I get out of town during 'LGBT Pride' events, even the Dyke March which has become trannified too. (And I went to the first one as a teenager)

  9. Same anon from 1:06pm here. I really should give myself a name or something to stop being anon.

    Responding to anon @ 4:08pm: If you want to entertain yourself, suggest to any of the male transitioners that claim to be lesbian that they may find a partner in another male transitioner.

    Make sure to bring your BS shield though, because it will get ugly. As one myself, I have suggested this to many other male transitioners -- my argument is if you don't consider your fellow 'people' female enough to date, you're beginning to understand on a very very small scale why the lesbians might not want you hanging around.

  10. Dear Sacramento,

    I go to the SAC Center. If Lesbians want a group Lesbians can certainly have a group. All you have to do is coordinate and and take the initiative to start one. All groups are there because "someone" took the initiative to start one. They did not get there by each interest group sitting there going ::snivel snivel snivel:: there is not one for me.. Stand up and be a leader! The rest will follow. What happened to proactive Lesbians who forged the way? Besides they are dying off and it is your turn to come up to the plate.

  11. 6:20 etc
    you also are 'hanging around' in a lesbian (virtual) space- how is that different? same male entitlement. and telling us how to be feminist? piss off

  12. @5:48

    I am a huge supporter of what Dirt is doing, as it's opened my eyes to a perspective I'd never seen before.

    I believe that as a trans person, I am *not* female, and therefore *cannot* be lesbian. I see the damage that overzealous, deluded trans people are doing to both feminism and female as a whole, and believe it needs to be stopped.

    I read this blog regularly because I'm fascinated and learning in equal measure. If commenting from my perspective isn't wanted, I'm happy to not comment, and apologize if it is an invasion of the space.

  13. "Queer" is male. A woman who wants to be queer, wants to be accepted by the boys. So queer women are already lost to themselves. The solution is to ground young women in being women. I believe this is more important than defining "lesbian" culture. Without women, there are no lesbians. If young women know they are women, the queer thing will disappear.

  14. to the male transitioner
    you seem like a decent person
    but i believe you are the one who posted in the previous thread about how women should be more how women are 'supposed to be-' softer, less aggressive, more tolerant (putting others' imterests first)
    this to me just sounds like another man telling women how to be
    no different really than the male strangers who tell me i should wear lipstick and dresses so i'm 'prettier' for them
    or being constantly told to 'smile'
    (blogspot stinks on the iphone!)

  15. @e

    No, that wasn't me. I've only ever commented on how I don't believe trans people belong in female/lesbian spaces -- how anyone should or shouldn't present themselves is far outside my wheelhouse. :)

    To keep things on point, I still believe the entire alphabet needs to be dismantled. There's forming a community around shared experience, and then there's hammering a square peg into a round hole. The only letters that even someone "fit together" are L & G (and to a lesser extent, B), but even they are so far divergent on so many issues that I can't even see that.

  16. I don't think I have ever been to a GLBT center that wasn't all about the men. And I agree that GLB and T never did belong together either. Too bad there are trans jacktivists like Leslie Feinberg who claim to be both trans and lesbian, because they cloud the issue in the public's eye, even worse than the het boys who put on a dress and high heels and claim that somehow makes them a lesbian.

    By all means, remove the L from the alphabet soup, and let the gay men have the trannies all to themselves!

  17. Wrong. I am the poster from the other thread. Does this mean I pass as "male" to have passed as mtf?

    I try not to make any comments in threads that aren't explicitly targeting trans people, but then, any discussion about women or lesbians on this blog inevitably leads to widescale demonization of trans and queer people. Have you considered that perhaps you *did* get lazy and focus all your efforts on getting that Subaru Outback instead of staying the course with lesbian feminism? Perhaps you thought all you were fighting for was the right to that nice house or good job? Did you tell yourself it was revolutionary enough to just be a woman and be working in a "male" field? Maybe that's why feminism is failing, because it's, in fact, been about the needs of a bunch of white, upper middle class lesbians. Forget about all the women in the world who do such tasteless things as love men, have babies, stay in the house, or embrace their traditional cultures to their own detriment (according to you). You *wanted* to step in and liberate them back in the 70's, but you forgot and got sidetracked by your mortgage and your precious, white, turkey baster baby. Now you have the audacity to whine about having to see trans people at the bar or at the GLBT center. They are the ones stepping up and shaping the culture according to what they want and need because they are the ones with energy and a critique of what has failed in the past: namely you. These kids make fun of you and your second-wave uselessness, your judgement, your policing of identity and sexuality. If you are obsolete, it's your own doing. So stop whining and work on re-shaping the world according to your needs. I would advise you to completely ignore trans people, though. Targeting us will only be a complete SHITSTORM for you and it will destroy all of your efforts, get you completely vilified, and undermine your efforts. I know you are pissed, and I think you have a right to be (sometimes) but unless you *have* an island that you can all move to, you are stuck with this culture.
    Coming right out against trans people is going to look like straight-up oppression coming from biased people who only desire to see more people like themselves around them. Queer activists believe strongly and passionately that they are fighting for people's *freedom*. You can't successfully come up directly against that. Maybe because politics is popularity, or maybe because they are right. Either way, any direct reaction to that will be a waste of time for you and backfire. If you want to find out for yourself, consider tabling at a queer event with a "You are not trans, you are a woman" platform. Please, do this.
    Jeez, it's almost like none of you have *had* teenagers or something.
    If you ignore us and be strong role models, unapologetic women, proud, strong, fierce AND tender, I think you might turn some of this around eventually. Start your lesbian groups, have lesbian only events. Don't bother getting distracted by a few transwomen wanting in. It's a non-issue. Let em in and focus on your "real" women. You can take a few hits in the effort to do greater good.
    That is if you care more about women than you do about your own ego and righteousness. Which is questionable.
    There, I have spoken. And since you don't consider me a man, you'll have to call it "transplaining" or "womansplaining".

  18. I'm only 30 years old- am I already outdated? Sorry for thinking you were a male- but any kind of transism is built around reinforcing gender norms, isn't it? Women are like this, men are like that.
    Good threats of SHITSTORM though!

  19. "Let’s say that one hundred lesbians paid to get into their precious fenced in area. If all these lesbians pooled their money, that would be $1,000. With that money, we could use the money to have a nice party, meeting, or have a dyke march. Lesbians need to stop supporting organizations who can’t even say the word lesbian."

    This has been bugging me. Instead of investing this money into strengthening the Lesbian community you would prefer to blow it off on a march or a party? Why not use that money as seed money to make a difference. This is the difference between the dykes of many years ago and the Lesbians of today. The ones who volunteered did not go for instant gratification. You are right.. If you were to take all the money Lesbians spent that day, you could make a hella difference in something you believe in. Now I will tell you what else bugs me.. All the straight people coming in and capitalizing off the LGBT community with their wares and food. Oh wait.. I guess I cold have sold there too.. I chose not to, so who do I have to blame? um me?

  20. I don't see why the lesbians who pool their money shouldn't spend it on a party. That's not frivolous, it's people spending their own money on themselves and their own community. What do you think they should do, send it to some organisation in the 3d world? You do know, don't you, that most of that money goes to warlords to finance their wars? You don't care, as long as women keep throwing money at every cause but our own.

    Also, the other commenter who ranted about the selfish white lesbians who wanted a real career and a nice car: so what? This is not only gaslighting, it's also racist. I see this constant anti-white bashing, even from people who should know better. People have to bash white people, just because everyone does and doesn't say anything. Well, I'm saying something--I'm white, and there's nothing wrong with that. Anyone who rants againsts white feminists is a racist. And if I had the money, I'd buy a Subaru. They've always been there for us, before every other auto manufacturer had lesbians in ads. I think some of the people who hate people who have nice cars, do so because they are on disability for their gender issues, and since they don't have to work, they despise people who actually need a car to get to their job, unlike some of you tranny parasites.

  21. Anon @7:00 pm, I withdraw my reference to the 3d world warlords WRT your comment, I see you want the money to stay in the lesbian community. Ok, I agree, my little rant was directed at the social justice sallies who are always hustling lesbians for money for corrupt international organisations. However, I still don't think lesbian parties are frivolous. One, it builds community and heals people who can't relax in other social situations, and two, people's money is their own, and if we can't spend it on something fun and personal, that's too grim. Bread and roses and all that.

  22. You are missing the point. I am all for parties. But what happened to good old fashioned potlucks? Save that money and get the appropriate actions into place to claim Lesbian Awareness in Society. Time and time again, this is where the ball is getting dropped. We all want to be seperated but we all want our rights too.. Correct? Take 10% of that money and have fun and take 90% of that money and start placing it into action to achieve your goals. Be a visionary. The Dykes of the 60's and 70's were visionaries who ran these things. More than 90% of any organization are followers and let the 10% left lead. Look at Lesbian Herstory.. It is awesome.

    It does not have to stop with those who have retired out. It can begin with you!! There are more resources available today then there ever dreamed of being back in the 60's and 70's. Back then bars were just about the only options. That is not true today. $1,000.00 could launch you today. I am not trying to be a yuck or anything but delayed gratification does not mean you cannot have fun.. But think of how fun it will be if you invest in your futures. Even Robin Tyler was not about the Lesbian community. She was an opportunist and capitolized on it. Bar owners back in the day exploited Lesbians with door cover charges and outlandish drink prices in some of the worst neighborhoods society has to offer. But there were many who were in it for the right reasons. Some stayed with those reasons while others sold out. No matter what having Lesbian Space and Lesbian Awareness is going to cost money. The question is are you a leader or a follower? Are you in it for a good time for yourself, or are you there to make a massive difference for all? If you want to break away from the alphabet, that is fine, but how is the future of Lesbians going to be funded?

  23. I agree that lesbians need to separate from the alphabet soup. It didn't really matter in the past that lesbians were part of this, in my experience, as there were so many women and lesbian only things happening. But nowdays it is like we are fighting for women and lesbian only space all over again. And I think we should be honest about this and say, we are putting lesbians first.

  24. " I think some of the people who hate people who have nice cars, do so because they are on disability for their gender issues, and since they don't have to work, they despise people who actually need a car to get to their job, unlike some of you tranny parasites"

    Wow. Defensive much? I don't hate you for your nice car, I hate you for your do-nothing whingy attitude towards political change. Buy all the status symbols you want, but don't expect that to change the future of lesbian communities.

    As for me, I've worked since I was 13. Never once been on unemployment or food stamps. I have no health concerns, so I'm not on disability either. I have two cars and a career. Your assumptions about tranny parasites prove that you are an ignorant, worthless piece of shit.

  25. " I think some of the people who hate people who have nice cars, do so because they are on disability for their gender issues, and since they don't have to work, they despise people who actually need a car to get to their job, unlike some of you tranny parasites"

    Wow. Defensive much? I don't hate you for your nice car, I hate you for your do-nothing whingy attitude towards political change. Buy all the status symbols you want, but don't expect that to change the future of lesbian communities.

    As for me, I've worked since I was 13. Never once been on unemployment or food stamps. I have no health concerns, so I'm not on disability either. I have two cars and a career. Your assumptions about tranny parasites prove that you are an ignorant, worthless piece of shit.

  26. I'm going to chime in from Germany. I think there are 2 major contributing factors to the trans trend, where Lesbians are especially succeptable.
    The first is the desire for "normalization" that all minorities in society face, and I think all Gay and Lesbians people experience a gender meloncholy/dysphoria when they are young and begin noticing how different they are from the mainstream.
    The second factor is that Lesbians are at the absolute bottom of the barrel in mainstream society - and in the LGBT scene. In society,a young Lesbian is still seen as a freak, not really good for anything and most mainstream people think 2 women can't even have sex together.
    With this trans trend they are offered a cheap cure - why not just become male? Nevermind that you won't have a dick, you'll have body hair and a male balding pattern so society will accept you as male in public (although usually a strange insecure small man, still better than a Dyke).
    Definately power and sex has a lot to do with it - Gay men don't fall for the trend.
    As a Lesbian in my mid-40's (with the typical feminist backgound) it's really sad to see what is becoming of this generation, including some of my friends. I'm afraid it might take about a generation before the trend stops, when the next generation can see how these trans people end up looking/living, etc. and not want to end up like that.

  27. It's Germany again - I forgot to mention Ellen, who I think is doing more for Lesbians than many may realize. Just look what she's managed to do in a country where 46% believe in Creationism.

  28. "The second factor is that Lesbians are at the absolute bottom of the barrel in mainstream society - and in the LGBT scene."

    What is your ranking based on? Can you describe an ideal situation for lesbians? What is it that would satisfy you regarding lesbian status in the GLBT scene?

  29. “These kids make fun of you and your second-wave uselessness, your judgement, your policing of identity and sexuality. If you are obsolete, it's your own doing.”

    Lesbians, especially butch lesbians are almost an endangered, if not extinct, species. Does this make the trans activists and queer identified folks happy? If butch lesbians completely disappeared from the face of the earth, I can assure the reader that this would make heterosexuals and patriarchy very happy. Whether we have the courage to say it out loud or not, perhaps trans activists and queer theorists are complicit in the erasure of lesbian identity.

    While the obsolete, useless, and tottering old fools, the earlier feminists, fought for totally obsolete and useless things such voting rights, reproductive health care, and equal pay, gender queer and trans activists brought us puberty suppressing drugs for “gender dysphoric” twelve year olds, and an explosion in the number of FTM transsexuals. Gender queer and “trans feminism” emerged during a period in time in which neoliberals attempted to roll back prior gains for women and minorities. This also ushered in globalization and a rapacious form of capitalism that swept the globe. Along with gender queer and “trans feminism” the lucrative sex industry expanded. When any rational person compares what the obsolete and useless earlier feminists have done compared to what gender queer and trans activists have done, there is no comparison. As gender queer and trans activists gleefully trample on the bones and graves of women who fought courageously to give them the right to walk into a voting booth and cast a vote, I pose this question. What would have happened if these useless, irrelevant, old fossils never existed?

  30. Whether one wants to admit it or not, I firm believe that touchy, sensitive issues surrounding transgender and transsexual do rub up against feminists issues. When lesbian feminists attempt to bring up these issues, they are publically reviled and ridiculed as if they are the most vile and insensitive people on the planet. Well, I’m way past the point of demurely sitting still and remaining silent. Who is and isn’t a female? This is a very interesting question, but one constant has always held true throughout recorded history. Women’s lives are devalued, and the various forms of violence against women are too barbaric to fully describe in this little blog. Is being female based on outward appearance? I’ve repeatedly heard transwomen state that they are “more woman than any woman”. What is and isn’t the essence of being female? With puberty suppressing drugs, young males don’t even have to go through puberty, and they don’t develop any male characteristics. They are essentially sexless beings in that they don’t have any external gender related sexual characteristics. If cross gender hormones are given after the puberty suppressing drugs, by outward appearances these transwomen can make physically attractive women. This is probably why people say the Miss Canada transwoman and the sixteen year old trans woman singer in Germany are so physically attractive. If a little boy never gets to go through puberty, “transitioning” to a female is much easier. Moreover, with the custom man-made neo-vaginas, what man in his right mind wouldn’t want a new and improved female that doesn’t get pregnant (no child support), and menstruates? So, are females really necessary? How is it possible to chemically or surgically alter females (XX) any more than they already are being altered? Young women (XX) who lean heavily towards being heterosexual are constantly barraged with advertisements to appear as feminine and alluring as possible to attract males. They are starving themselves, getting liposuction, buying a ton of cosmetics etc. Girls who are a bit on the masculine side, and don’t feel comfortable with all the makeup etc. are convinced that they are men, and can’t wait to get their breasts removed and start testosterone. This removes the lesbian identity along with her body parts. At the rate at which the female body is being altered in one way or another, I wonder what future females will look like. That is, if they will still be necessary. I wonder what future historians will say. What exactly do transwomen mean when they state, “If you are obsolete, it’s your own doing.”? Today, this is directed towards lesbians. At the rate in which the female body is currently being chemically and surgically altered, what will people say if this statement is directed towards women (XX)?

    On the subject of transplanting ovaries,

    “I often wonder, when the day does come when this is possible, will we be looked upon in a better light. Because, then they cant say we cant do anything a born female can do.”

  31. Lesbians, especially lesbian feminists have never received the financial backing and support from two powerful patriarchal driven industries. This is no accident. The medical establishment benefits from puberty suppressing drugs, cross gender hormones, and sex reassignment surgery. Since “transitioning” really never ends in that cross gender hormones have to continue throughout one’s lifetime, I imagine that the medical establishment benefits handsomely from everything trans related. Of course, the average heterosexual couple with their distaste for feminine boys and tomboy girls now have a way to “fix” their gender-nonconforming children.

    The other patriarchal industry that has always supported trans activists and gender queer folks is the lucrative pornography industry. Of course, no one comes right out and says this, but we know it’s true. Indeed, at the Philadelphia Trans Health Conference, there were two workshops just for trans identified people in the sex industry.

    “Don't bother getting distracted by a few transwomen wanting in. It's a non-issue. Let em in and focus on your "real" women”

    How has this benefitted lesbians? Why is it a non-issue? Well, it’s a non-issue because transwomen say it is. At the workshop “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women” at Planned Parenthood of Toronto of all places, FAAB (females assigned at birth) were excluded. The “cotton ceiling” refers to sexual access to females by transwomen and gender queer males. So, in discussing ways to “overcome” and “break down” lesbians, lesbians shouldn’t even be allowed in the front door. Or, at Vancouver Rape Relief, where a transwoman simply would not take no for an answer when he (sorry for being transphobic) wanted to be a volunteer counselor to rape victims. By rape victims, I mean genetic females who were sexually assaulted. I am aware that trans individuals also experience sexual assault. This issue involved the rape of females (XX) not transwomen. A trans woman who transitioned at age thirty couldn’t understand why females who had been raped wouldn’t want to be counseled by him. As I understand it, a higher court in Canada upheld Vancouver Rape Relief’s right to exclude transwomen from being volunteer rape crises counselors for women. Before the appeal, Vancouver Rape Relief told this individual that he (sorry for being transphobic) could volunteer at some other capacity at their rape crisis center, but this was not good enough. For having the audacity to stand up to something that potentially created an unsafe and uncomfortable environment for women, Vancouver Rape Relief is still harassed by transwomen.

  32. “I would advise you to completely ignore trans people, though. Targeting us will only be a complete SHITSTORM for you and it will destroy all of your efforts, get you completely vilified, and undermine your efforts.”

    When sweet, effeminate boys are slapped with a label of “gender dysphoria” and their homophobic parents can’t wait to push puberty suppressing drugs on their peculiar little sissy boy, it’s very difficult to ignore the issue of transgender. Or, when tomboyish girls can’t wait to get their healthy breasts lopped off because they see Chaz Bono “Dancing With the Stars”, and are convinced that they too are trans men, it’s very difficult to not bring up the subject of transsexual. Since transwomen appear to be completely ignorant as it relates to women’s history, please listen carefully. I mean carefully listen. The mutilation of women’s bodies is certainly nothing new. Perhaps, just perhaps, the explosion in the number of FTM who can’t wait to have both their healthy breasts removed and to embark on a life-long regimen of testosterone does entail a great deal of misogyny. And, perhaps the new found interest in Trans Kids Purple Rainbow does have something to do with both internalized homophobia, and parental revulsion at having gender non-conforming children. I admit to being a nasty, radfem lesbian for bringing up these most delicate issues that no one wants to hear.

    To me, this reference to a SHITSTORM, appears to be another example of how transwomen feel the need to control, intimidate, and coerce females. All woman kind should be afraid of the SHITSTORM from males, or people who used to be males. In many ancient cultures, the function of male eunuchs was to control the haram and manage females. As to eunuchs in ancient cultures, I really do feel sorry for these people, but they did serve patriarchy very well. If we bring this subject up, this makes transwomen very uncomfortable. Women as a class of people have little, if any power. Women were bought, sold, and bartered. How does this relate to transwomen, patriarchy, sexism etc? In some ancient cultures, the powerful males in charge used to let the eunuchs corral the women. Isn’t it interesting that in 2012, trans women still think that they need to control females, and occupy every inch of female, and especially lesbian space. I’m sure the eunuchs who were in charge of controlling the harams thought they had the duty to bring down a SHITSTORM upon any woman who stepped out of line.

    "There is a long tradition of eunuchs who were used by rulers, heads of state, and magistrates as keepers of women…

    …it thus appears that eunuchs, to some extent, always attached themselves to women’s spaces and, most frequently, were used to supervise women’s freedom of movement and to harness women’s self-centeredness and self-government…

    …Will the acceptance of transsexually constructed lesbian-feminists who have lost only their outward appendages of physical masculinity lead to the containment and control of lesbian-feminists? Will every lesbian-feminist space become a harem?"

    Janice Raymond, Transsexual Empire

    When a transwoman confidently threatens a SHITSTORM to be rained down on rebellious dykes who have the audacity to step off the reservation, I always think of this passage in Transsexual Empire. There is no way in holy hell that transwomen will ever openly declare that a SHITSTORM be rained down on their patriarchal masters. No, they will never do that even as the straight, transphobic, homophobic, dudes beat the heck out of them. Lesbians don’t physically attack transwomen. It’s the straight dudes who are the perpetrators of the hate crimes against transwomen. Lesbians are threatened with a SHITSTORM for the crime of speaking words that some don’t want to hear.

  33. (1.) Don’t question the use of puberty suppressing drugs, cross gender hormones, and sex reassignment surgery that essentially are chemically and/or surgically mutilating a whole generation of future gay men and lesbians.

    (2.) I believe that some FTM might really be “gender dysphoric” and could benefit from actual “transitioning” through testosterone and surgery. Having said this, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that part of the underlying explosion in the interest in FTM has a great deal to do with utter misogyny, the decline in feminism, fear and loathing of lesbians, and societal views of lesbians, especially butch lesbians. This is why stray people out in cyberspace have told Dirt that “they would rather have their daughter grow up to be a transman and get the respect that comes from being a man than having their daughter be a carpet muncher who gets no respect.”

    I will never be silent. If this, as you say, creates a “SHITSTORM” from trans activists, then so be it. I’m a very peaceful and patient person. I might bitch and moan, but I’ve never caused physical harm to any trans individual in my life. Lesbians aren’t the people who are physically bashing trans people. It’s usually the cocky, young teenage straight dudes doing this. Lesbians are just sick and tired of queer folk and the transwomen occupying every inch of lesbian space. When we bring up some uncomfortable subjects that trans folks don’t want to hear such as puberty suppressing drugs, or the touchy subject of misogyny as it relates to FTM, we are the ones who are threatened with a SHITSTORM. It’s not lesbians who are the perpetrators of the hate crimes against transwomen. Why haven’t trans activists threatened a SHITSTORM against all the transphobic straight men who actually do physical harm against transwomen? It’s much easier to intimidate and threaten women who are powerless. It’s much easier to threaten a SHITSTORM against lesbians than a six foot tall straight man. This requires a lot of courage to do this. This is how much transwomen respect lesbians. For the crime of speaking some unpleasant truths, lesbians deserve a SHITSTORM. I understand completely.

    I will be persistent and dogged in bringing up some rather uncomfortable facts that trans activists would rather not hear. Two spirit people or gender variant individuals have always existed in various cultures throughout recorded history. These people weren’t surgically or chemically mutilated. The difference between these cultures and today is this. Today we have puberty suppressing drugs and Trans Kids Purple Rainbow to deal with.

    As long as I’m alive, I will speak. If I die in SHITSTORM, then so be it. The truth cannot be silenced forever. Perhaps we are living in one of the most female and lesbian hating periods in history. It’s not like lesbians haven’t been shit on enough. As for me, I’m way beyond caring what others think.

  34. THIS is lesbian space and you're comments cannot abide with reality then they will be deleted. When referring to a female on T or a male on T use either female transitioner/male transitioner or trans bio-female or trans bio male. The eradication of reality/language isnt going to happen here.


  35. Thanks for explaining that Dirt. I am so used to my comments not appearing if I use FtoT on other blogs that I tend to use FtoM, even though I know you can't change sex.

    And for the poster who said how angry Dirt was in early posts - I'm not surprised. I am angry that young lesbians are being encouraged to take drugs and mutiliate themselves, to make them more acceptable to wider society. How can we ignore this or be indifferent when we see young lesbians haring themselves like this?

    I don't understand why more lesbians aren't angry about this. I guess they just accept the lie that you can be another sex. This doesn't make me Trans, just a lesbian who wants other lesbians to be happy with who they are.

  36. You are mad at women who were not brave enough to follow the path you took. Not every one is strong as you are.
    Stop attacking the weak ones who couldn't fight and instead focus on the patriarchy that whooped them into submission.

    Not exactly sisterly or feminist when you attack women. Especially when it is the women who didn't have the strength to fight back against the mansociety.

  37. Firstly you might want to get better acquainted with the word "attack".

    Secondly, enabling isnt something I've ever practiced, in life or here. And will certainly not start now due to ignorance and fear. The only balm for both, is truth.


  38. Anonymous - No not everyone is brave. But transitioning isn't a way of dealing with this either. Lots of out lesbians who are older have been scared teenagers and young adults. But they didn't mutiliate their bodies.

    So when they got the courage to be themselves, they still had their female bodies, then didn't have the health problems associated with taking T and everyone recognises them for what they are - women.

    How do you think we can help young lesbians be braver and avoid transitioning?

  39. and it's really not just a lesbian problem- many many 'straight' young women are doing it too, and then living as 'gay men' or partnering with male transitioners in a reversed hetero relationship.

  40. Most of the female transitioners I've known that had started out as 'lesbians' ended up having sex exclusively with men after a few years on testosterone.

  41. The almigjhty Gender outranks all! All hail Gender! Five year olds understand how boys and girls are 'supposed to be.' At 5 I wanted to grow up to be a dinosaur (a bronfosaurus to be exact, a creature since debunked);. I also thought that age was cyclical and I'd get to be little again after growing big (so I could wear my favorite shirt again).

    1. (sorry for spelling brontosaurus wrong- posting from phone without glasses on)
      seriously though children often have very confused and strict self-imposed gender ideas as they're figuring things out

  42. This Germany for Anon@June 10 4:00 -
    I'm basing that on several factors, I tried to make it as simple as I could.
    There are no easy answers. I would like to see women, but especially Lesbians become more confident+secure and know they are OK how they are. That's the root of it. That's hard, partly because actually most Lesbians are "invisible" in society - they look just like straight women and we only notice the ones who fit at least some of the Lesbian stereotypes (look like we expect them to look).
    I'd like to see all FtM remove themselves from Lesbian groups, along with FtM. They need their own groups for their own issues. (Everyone can all get together sometimes for parties, whatever.) I also was up until this trans trend very against Lesbian separation. Also think no one should care what kind of sex Lesbians are having together - imagination is the limit. It makes me almost physically sick to think about how these really young women and girls willingly mangle their bodies, especially their erogenous zones.

  43. I'm sorry, I meant I would like to see MtF remove themselves from Lesbian groups.

  44. Agreed that young children do not understand the difference between sex and gender. Very young children often literally think if they wear "girl's" clothes they are a girl and vice versa. Their understanding of these concepts is very very superfacial.

    A child at 3 is incapable of understanding the concepts involved for anyone to claim they are Transgendered.

    And as noted above, many many young children want to be dogs, cats, robots, etc when they grow up and can honestly believe that is a possibility. We recognise these as the childish fantasies they are.

  45. & this gender-(self-and of others)-policing of course often stretches through adolescence which is how so many kids who don't follow the rules learn from their peers that they're somehow 'wrong' (aside from whatever they're learning at home) it all stems from the same conservative and simplified childlike views of gender. to label these restrictive beliefs as progressive and people who don't ascribe to them as bigoted is absolutely 'ass-backwards'