Change Your World-NOT your Body

Friday, June 8, 2012

Lesbians and an Angry Fearful Trans Community

As a lesbian, why do you feel any time without fail, when lesbians even mention centering our time, money and efforts on issues specific to us, we get attacked on varying levels from those who deem themselves trans? If we look at others under the queer umbrella: gay men, the Intersexed (as they too have been dragged under), the supposed bisexuals and those claiming to "question" (question what I have no idea), none have ever batted an eyelash when lesbians talk of removing ourselves from the queer soup mix.

We've witnessed it here repeatedly and aside from a mostly lesbian readership, most other readers are trans bio-females. If as they claim, to have been "born trans", meaning either straight men or gay men all along, why on earth would they worry so much about what lesbians do? Why get so angry and up in arms? They either partner with straight women, have sex with gay men or partner with each other. Again, lesbians do not even enter into to it.

Lesbian Opinions?

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31 comments:

  1. I think it has something to do with psychology. I don't want to say anything good about Freud and that lot, but I think they were onto something. Men who think they are women, are trying to kill and impersonate Mom. Films like Psycho didn't come out of a vacuum. There are many men like this. When the tranz try to silence us, they are killing mommy in order to take her place. If mommy lives and has free speech, they are too aware of how fake they are. Remember the good old days when people like this were called "female impersonators"?

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  2. Anon @1:07... You really are clueless, aren't you? Maybe you should have someone educate you before you go spouting off again.

    Really, what you wrote is as dumb as someone claiming that butch lesbians are trying to imitate daddy.

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  3. Anon@ 5:56 am, telling me I'm clueless isn't much of a critique, but it does tell me something about you. Since I'm a kind person, I'll give you a hint: civil, well-reasoned discourse can be persuasive. The other kind, not so much. BTW, when I read on so many MtT blogs about how they're more "real" than regular women, that tells me that they want to replace us.

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  4. Thats interesting that you get a lot of Trans bio females here. Perhaps a part of them misses being part of a lesbian community? Certainly connecting with other lesbians and feeling accepted for who we are, is very powerful. And if you have felt that in the past, I can imagine you would miss that when you transitioned.

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  5. I've noticed on a few trans bio-female tumblrs that some of them really dislike women and post misogynist jokes and videos. Only some of them do this, but it's definitely a pattern for some. Maybe their hostility toward lesbians is that they resent the fact that some strong women like being women. It refutes the standard argument that, "when I was little, I couldn't stand dresses, so I knew I was trans." Many lesbians have the same history but didn't transition, and that causes such cognitive dissonance for some people, they have to attack.

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  6. @ 2:16 pm, many lesbians are female-centric, their entire lives revolve around women and very little men, if any. so calling trans people misogynic just for identifying with an individual sex that may differ from your own centrism doesnt make a whole lot of sense

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  7. Or maybe deep down they know they are not really a man but a lesbian woman. I imagine if you had transitioned from bio female, but knew deep down inside that you were really a woman but struggled to live as one because of sexism and anti lesbian hate - then someone pointing out to you the fallacy of what you did/were doing, is going to make you pretty angry. Not because it is criticising what you are doing, but because you know it is really the truth.

    It has always struck me with Trans people that for some individuals their anger and hurt at being told that no I or others don't really think they are a man or woman, seems way disproportionate.

    If someone said to me they didn't think I was a lesbian, I would ask them why. But I wouldn't get angry or upset, because I know I am a lesbian. But if I secretly doubted it, then I can imagine I would get very angry and upset at someone questioning this.

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  8. Dirt, great blog. Its your blog and its up to you, but I would love to see you doing a post on what is great about being a lesbian. In spite of discrimination, I think there are lots and lots of great things about being a lesbian. Just thought it might be good to say this openly.

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  9. "Not because it is criticising what you are doing, but because you know it is really the truth."

    But what I see is lesbians becoming angry about ftm's transitioning. I think the great majority of transpeople just feel sorry for Dirt because she's obsessing about trans and not able to focus on women. If you look in some of her older posts, her anger seethes , and the *hatred* of some of her readers for transmen is palpable. It's way beyond the point of worrying for the future of butches or the gay community. It's personal. Some women take this shit straight-up personal. They feel left behind, not good enough, or worse, they are paranoid that people are trying to force them to transition. It is necessary for these women to take a huge emotional step back and realize that they themselves are the problem. Women, even butches, who are comfortable being women don't react like this. So I think the complete opposite of what you are saying. I think alot of women are secretly wondering if they are trans. And there is no way of really knowing that without doing some soul-searching. You don't find out who you are by hating some one else for saying who they are. A person can lose alot of friends, family, community when they come out as trans, and the fear of that can drive some people crazy. I think it is heartily inconvenient for some to feel confronted by this kind of introspection. And many who say how much they love being a woman will never actually be sure that that's who they are.

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  10. Many kinds of people- women, men, gay, straight, gender-conforming or not, have a huge problem wirh the theory of transsexualism. It does not make them 'trans' especially for people who do not believe such a diagnosis is even possible or based in any kind of reality- it's basically saying that anybody who disagrees with you shares your disorder and it's illogical.

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  11. Not anybody, but certainly some. Many hateful preachers who have a huge problem with homosexuality end up getting busted having sex with men.

    Feel free to have a huge problem with the "theory" of transsexualism. I'm the reality of transsexualism and I'm not going anywhere just because you don't "believe" in me. I'm not the fucking Easter Bunny.

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  12. I never said I wanted YOU to 'go anywhere,' and
    I think the constant comparing of homosexuality to transsexualism is extremely damaging. One has nothing to do with the other. It only benefits transists by clinging onto the gay rights movement (which is now called the LGBT movement) and straight people who already think that gay people who don't do their gender 'correctly' just want to be the opposite sex.

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  13. So people who argue against the idea of transsexualism will be 'busted' doing what exactly? Putting rubber dicks in their pants and drawing on mustaches? Homosexuality is a behavior, involving whomever one is attracted to; transsexuality is an IDEA and a delusion, based on how one perceives oneself and is perceived by others.

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  14. Anon @ 6:45.... "when I read on so many MtT blogs about how they're more "real" than regular women, that tells me that they want to replace us."

    If you only knew how close you are to the truth. I found this on another blog...

    "Don't you see, it's all part of their insidious plan. Females have been deemed troublesome, so trans women are being groomed to become the de facto women of the western world, while females will be lobotomized and become nothing more than incubators for the children of men. The systematic de-humanization and erasure of females. This is why trannies are steadily gaining ground, while women's rights are losing."

    If even a portion of this is true, then we have a real problem.

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  15. There is a point of reference that links trans people and gay people. Most people think that both trans people and gay people are misguided and that something negative happened to make us who we are. Straightness is the rule, gay is the somewhat "tragic" exception that needs to be explained away, even by nice people. Meanwhile, gay people know there is nothing wrong them, their loves, their lives. They know they are being pitied and vilified for no reason. Even despite the fact that their unions are not technically biologically useful in any way, they continue to assert their right to live and love as they see fit. Despite the fact that "gayness" in humans *far* exceeds that seen in any other species proportionally. I can see clearly how misjudged gay people are, yet you believe you are "real" and I'm delusional. There are very real lives associated with our "delusions", and I have yet to see any batshit craziness that's out of proportion with a sample from straight culture. So what's the point of continuing to assert that we are delusional? Does it make you feel better?

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  16. If you did not have a mental disorder you would not need to be 'treated' for it. Not saying that to make me feel better, it's simply true.
    Straight people who are unable to have children also have no 'biologically useful' reason to be together.

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    Replies
    1. (or people who don't WANT to reproduce)

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  17. Homosexuality/lesbianism isnt a "behavior". I was a lesbian child/teen/adult. I'm a lesbian single or coupled. I'm a lesbian even sitting still. Lesbianism isnt about "doing" it is about "being". Trans however is nothing BUT about "doing", rather than "being". Thats the critical difference.

    dirt

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  18. I meant 'behavior' in the way that people are 'busted' for engaging in homosexuality. While one can not be busted for being 'trans,' since it lives exclusively inside of one's head.

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  19. Dirt is trying to save lesbians from mutilating themselves. I think that is a worthwhile thing to do.

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  20. To Dirt
    Do you only believe in two genders? In your opinoin is sexuality a spectrum or is it a clear cut non ambigious entity? In your own words what is the relationship between gender and sexuality?

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  21. Obviously there are females, males and intersexed (of which still lean primarily towards either male or female).

    Some are heterosexual and some arent.

    A wooden chair may no longer be a tree due to be manipulated by external factors, but nothing will ever change it from being wood.

    dirt

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  22. "Supposed bisexuals"

    Oh for goodness' sake.

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  23. to anonymous at 2:18. feminists belive in ZERO genders. NONE. this is what the alphabet soupers just can't seem to grasp. y'all talk about a million genders and deny that SEX exists!

    this is a REALLY basic concept, but i will go over it again even though Dirt has covered this ad infinitum. sex and gender ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. THING. sex is biology. or what you soupers like to call "parts". sex is about sexual reproduction. there are ONLY two sexes.

    male sex is determined by the production of male gametes, sperm. the ability to produce male gametes is determined by several factors. a person must have 1/xy chromosomes. 2/ testicles to produce sperm. in addition to that, in order to be fully functional for reproduction they will require a prostate, seminal vesicles, a penis. this is the male sex.

    in order for a person to be female, they must produce female gametes: ova. the production of ova requires several things 1/ xx chromosomes 2/ ovaries 3/ the ovaries must have sufficient pre-ova material within them to develop one into an ovum.
    in addition to that, in order to be fully functional reproductively a woman must have a uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, vagina, vulva, and a fully functioning female endocrine system for the regulation of female hormone production and usage, a functioning pelvic cage and floor and a pair of breasts with all related internal lactation structures intact.

    this is sex. you can be one or the other. you can NOT switch. you CAN be neither. whether because of being born with a disorder of sexual development, or intersex, or because one has in some way been de-sexed, through castration. one certainly can be sex-less. those who have undergone a penoplasty and orchidectomy (removal of testicles) for instance, are not female. they can choose to consider themselves to no longer be a male, as they are no longer reproductive, but they are not female, they have no female gametes.

    Now gender however, is entirely made-up. It is simply arbitrary rules about how a sex is imagined to be required to behave. those rules frequently change and even reverse themselves from place to place and time to time. since they are entirely arbitrary social constructs, there is literally no limits to how many there can be or what they might look like or how they are tied to physical sex. HOWEVER. and this is the BIG however. in patriarchal societies, gender is used as a strictly enforced means of oppression of the female sex by the male sex.

    If gender wasn't so incredibly harmful to women, if gender wasn't policed and enforced so strictly, so violently, it might be a fun concept to play with. Certainly those who don't understand what gender IS have been functioning under the mistaken impression that gender is simply play. And when they suffer the enforcent of gender policing, they mistakenly blame the people who are fighting to END gender, feminists, rather than the people who police gender, males and their lackeys.

    So, anonymous. we believe in ZERO genders. we want NONE of it, we refuse to perform and we defy the gender police, especially the gender police who want to pretend that women don't even exist! we recognise ONLY the female sex. and we want to end the oppression of those people who are seed female. and we KNOW that those who are not sexed female don't understand or care about our oppression. so we don't want to let those who are NOT sexed female get in our way.

    Get it?

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  24. Cassaundra hit the nail on the head. I do feel sorry for the women who have jumped into the trans abyss, I'm sure there are moments of absolute horror when they realize there's no going back, and yet no real way forward.

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  25. Anonymous - Just for those reading this who have transitioned and regetting it, women have transitioned back. It is possible.

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  26. Excellent post Cassandra!

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  27. Yes, excellent post Cassaundra! You should post that on 'GenderTrender', Gallus Mag's blog! Or if you'd let me, I could post it on mine! Very, very well articulated. There is real concern about bio females' safety, when any born male can imitate a female and go into a bathroom in drag and 'claim' he is female, especially predators just out of prison who preyed on women/young girls and claim they are 'now women' and when you look at them IN NO WAY do they even begin to pass as female. Just dudes in dowdy clothes and dresses/makeup, with no clue at all what femaleness, being a woman is all about.

    But I think the trans community gets angry at Lesbian flight, cuz so many were Lesbian and see coming out as a Lesbian as a stepping stone to the more hip trend of now becoming 'genderqueer', then FTMing, ect. to gain some sort of male privilege, but also 'to be in' with the queer bio female community. Because these days everybody's 'queer' nobody is anything else, cuz there are no boundaries, and anybody can have sex with anybody and consider themselves to be any 'genda' that they want to be! And Lesbians have VERY DISTINCT boundaries on who we sexually and emotionally relate to and put first: other bio females! Well, except those Lesbians who are sellouts! And if we leave, the FTM's/Genderqueer won't have 'accepting' queer females to date. And they DATE FTM's because it's in and BECAUSE they are bio-females, NOT bio male! You wouldn't believe all the ads that some Lesbian or Femme says they want someone who is Butch/FTM or 'masculine of center', but in no uncertain terms THEY MEAN Bio-Female, NOT MTF's or bio male, thus the whole 'cotton ceiling' debacle from the MTF's at feeling 'left out' by the Lesbian/Queer women's community!

    -M.A.

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  28. I personally hate how Butch and FTM have become so interchangeable within the Lesbian community...perhaps it's a spectrum and some are on this side of it, some on the others, and some just don't know who they are, but are more Butch than feminine, but ALL are bio females with bio females essentially. And they KNOW that they'll never ever have to fear pregnancy with them, or deal with the lifelong being raised and acting male that bio men possess. And they still get to be 'queer', even if they may no longer call themselves Lesbians while dating an FTM. In fact Lesbian has become somewhat of a dirty word of late, because it is a word they cannot as easily coopt.

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  29. And BECAUSE we have those boundaries!

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