Change Your World-NOT your Body

Thursday, May 31, 2012

Another Frightening Article on Transitioning our (gay/lesbian) Children

See article here.

As we move closer to the next version of the DSM we are seeing more and more media reports of children being transitioned. The next version of the DSM  will contain the addition of diagnosing children as trans as well as those children being treated by parents/family/schools etc by changing the pronouns of said child and then "treating" them as the sex said child perceives himself/herself to be based on external factors. Or worse being treated by the parents as said parents perceives/desires their child to be. After the brainwashing of the child, begins the injection of hormone blockers which stunts growth for starters and as of yet has no studies (short or long term) of what said drugs might do to children in the immediate, mid or later as adults.

Not so dissimilar to misogynistic anti abortion tactics which claim fetus autonomy/rights, there is an early stage trans-political movement suggesting children have a right to do whatever they choose with their tiny bodies, regardless of age. Or at least whatever they choose so long as it is in line with pro trans politics! Keep in mind these are girls who do/play boy things and boys doing/playing girl things, all in the playpen of homophobia of course. What I find most interesting about adults/the male medical machine/the trans community in giving complete liberty to a child as young as two or three years of age with regards to transition is adult women suffering from anorexia having their autonomy stripped from them and are if need be force fed. Just as those who suffer from BIID who believe they should have been "born" without a leg or an arm desire to have said limbs removed and are denied.

Why would parents, the male medical machine and society in general be seemingly okay with drugging and later mutilating a child/teen/adult suffering from the trans disorder, yet hell bent on saving (even against the persons will) those who have an eating disorder or drinking/drug addiction or desire having a healthy body part removed etc? Because most parents, most in the male medical machine and most in our general Gender Straight Jacketed society are hell bent on eradicating gays and lesbians while we're still in fucking diapers!

dirt


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75 comments:

  1. I hope you die in a fire.

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  2. "With my burnt hand I will write of the nature of fire. IB

    dirt

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  3. transsexualists always seem to wamt women who disagree with then to die in a fire. why is this? i don't see them saying the same thing to men.

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  4. It seems to be a way to eliminate all natural variation within the sexes, get rid of the sissies and the tomboys. It's a terrible shame that it's considered 'freedom' and that disagreeing with it is considered 'radical' or 'feminist'- why?

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  5. (It's usually 'male to female' people that want women to die in fires.)

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  6. You mean male transitioners, males cant become female.

    dirt

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  7. Ever since gender studies and transitioning has become popular this strange term "performing gender" has popped up everywhere. Everything pretty much went to hell here in the German Lesbian scene about 10 years ago when they started giving workshops about "performing gender" and the Kings of Berlin (which started out as a pure drag show) spun out of control, the performers got too caught up in it and many transitioned. It snowballed from there.
    It's really sad to see healthy kids being influenced by this wishy-washy concept which in the end will leave them very comprimised and with a life-long dependency on a medical system. What parent really wants that for their kid?

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  8. Anon,

    Parents who would rather have a "compromised" son or daughter rather than a son or daughter who is gay or lesbian.

    dirt

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  9. "Or worse being treated by the parents as said parents perceives/desires their child to be."

    Just want to say this is in no way far fetched. Letting a child believe he or she is the opposite sex, even for a short time has lasting effects, I know first hand. Its NOT like you can take it all back at a later stage without causing extreme confusion and insecurity. Its too late for the girl who won't even remember who told her she was a 'boy' - in her mind she will just 'know' that she is.

    There was a case of two female transitioners who claimed their 7 year old (?) daughter was trans too and were pushing for her to use the male toilets at school. Come on if thats not Munchausens syndrome I don't know what is, but I guess its a-okay under these new guidelines.

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  10. Well, transitioners actually go on to lead happy, healthy and productive lives after their transition, whereas many people with eating disorders ruin their health through starvation. Transitioning is not suicide. In many cases it's the end of suicidal thoughts, illegal drug use, alcoholism, eating disorders, and other escapist strategies to avoid facing transition. People like you and your collection of half-witted harpies are trying to make this harder for us because you need desperately to see yourselves and your gender non-conformity reflected around you. I feel your pain, but you are overstepping your bounds. If you focussed on uplifting butch and gender-nonconforming women you would be so much more powerful. I just wish you would stop being so dumb about this. Focussing on transsexuals really is a very effective way to dilute your power and I can't believe you still fall for it. Completely ignoring us and re-invigorating the sisterhood would actually serve to draw so many more of these kids away from transness.

    Since we always have been here and always will, that cow is out of the barn. Young women looking for answers in the gender question need strong, proud, dignified, compassionate role models who CAN accept that these issues have complexity, because that's what's true. And young people are acutely aware that older people giving them advice are hardly unbiased. As it stands, most transpeople need to *really* insist on transitioning and face alot of shame, judgment, and discomfort in doing so.

    I don't think you can get women's power back by pissing on transpeople. It makes you look like a stupid, frothing bully who, incidentally, doesn't spell very well, has poor use of grammar, and can't admit when she is wrong.

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  11. Really, 5 year olds are suicidal and abusing drugs as their parents encourage their 'transition?'
    Do you honestly think it has NO societal influence?
    Do you honestly think these kids' bodies are 'mistakes' and their brains are 'correct' but of the opposite sex?
    Do you see that this makes no sense to rational people who are not even feminists and not even lesbians and not even women?
    And 'get women's power back?' When did we have it before?
    Also, your spelling is not exactly top-notch.

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  12. There isnt a single person in the perpetual state of "transition" that is happy, not one. And the females suffering from BD, once the trans high wears off, that dysphoria will return again and again and again.

    dirt

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  13. I'm going to chime in again from Germany. It was over here that the whole trans concept started a little over 100 years ago. Dirt's Blog is a place to look critically at it, which is important (and rare in politically correct USA) especially now that children are being affected. In the end it will take someone like J. Butler to rewrite the reality of the situation; I think the only group really looking critically at it are the intellectual Lesbians. Trans call that hate.

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  14. Actually Germany, it was JB's circular post-modernistic bullshit that help birth nihilistic Queer Theory. Which is behind the extinction in academia of Lesbian Studies and the soon to be extinction of Women's Studies via Queer/Gender studies. Both of which promote the anti-feminist notion of "gender fluidity" and transition.

    A feminism based solely in reality rather than reality tv is what is needed and what is always found here!

    dirt

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  15. "There isnt a single person in the perpetual state of "transition" that is happy, not one."

    Strange, that. You don't seem to be too happy either. Guess it shows that it ultimately doesn't matter if you're trans or not!

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  16. I have never taken mental or physically changing drugs nor had any healthy body part mutilated from my person, nor desired to nor desired to be anyone BUT me. In regards to happiness, I've never been so ignorant to strive for the fleeting, it comes in beautiful waves and my perpetual contentedness is apparent to all privileged enough to know me.

    dirt

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  17. Hidden in your poetic reply, you took the word right out of my mouth. "Privileged". Smacks a bit of hypocrisy, methinks. Either that, or someone changed the meaning of "happiness" while I wasn't looking.

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  18. I merely repeat what I have been told.

    Regarding your notions of happiness, hence my using of the word "ignorant", but if you're in the US, you are in plenty good company.

    Happiness isnt something marketed or sold, it cannot be found on store shelves, in pill bottles, clothes racks or at the end of a butcher's scalpel. It comes from within and is supplied from what we place within.

    dirt

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  19. You are correct! It ultimately doesn't matter if you are trans are not! Transition is not a cure for the human condition which brings all levels of despair and joy for all kinds of reasons at different times to all humans. Including trans people. Because we are humans. Today, I *am* happy because I'm doing well in my classes and because I'm getting a sweet ass 76 ford truck next week. Plus I've been riding my bike alot and working out so I'm feeling fit. My marriage continues to grow in intimacy and trust in ways I wasn't sure I was capable of having. And summer is here so the season of camping and river-swimming is upon us. So yeah! I'm happy! Fuck yeah! And fuck YOU Dirt for suggesting that's impossible. But,honestly, I'm so happy that I hafta admit I love you at this point. You are dead wrong about certain things concerning trans people but I do want a world where butch women thrive, where all women thrive so I admire your stalwart efforts. You are a staunch character.

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  20. Happy "trans" women (I'll assume you are an adult female) do not read nor seek out such blogs as mine. The very fact that you claim to be "trans" and yet are here, desperately trying to prove your happiness by illustrating how "happy" your life is, only proves my original statement in leaps and bounds.

    Humans also, have all you outlined as making you "happy", without medical intervention.

    There is no possibility of fleeting happiness, when there is no love of self.

    "The vase reconstructed/houses the elusive rose" SP

    dirt

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  21. Again with this. I explain over and over why I come here. You are spreading lies about our lives to other women who would sooner believe your lies than learn the truth from actual trans people. I consider it my duty to humanize trans people to bigots. Because I do love myself and I love this world. I'll spend my time making it a nicer place to be. Distrust from the lesbian community is sad to behold because it's a product of your marginalization. If you had everything you needed in this world, if you weren't so deprived, you wouldn't be a paranoid lunatic. And that's sad.

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  22. As a lesbian, that BS doesnt wash here. Gays and lesbians are bashed all over the world, both real and online, if comfortable being gay or lesbians we do not seek out those or sites that ignorantly refute or despise us. Logic therefore dictates you are here for an entirely different reason, perhaps one you cannot even admit to yourself.

    dirt

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  23. Most arguments against trans people's existence consist of people shouting "freak" at us. I don't seek out that kind of discourse because it's not discourse. Those people *also* find you and your kind disgusting and an abomination.
    Here, I find lesbians and others using their well-developed critical minds to critique something they feel threatened by. Some of the critique is interesting to me. Many things that are said here I used to say myself. I find watching people's process fascinating. Certainly some people who come here will later go on to realize that they, themselves, are trans and that their hatred was fueled by self-hatred and denial. Same reason why closeted gay men bash and murder other gay men. That's interesting to me. And as long as you're allowing me a forum, I'll probably come here. I can convey that we are not a bunch of victims, morons, or stooges.

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  24. Merely self hating women brutalized by the male medical machine, its nothing new. Been going on for centuries. But fortunately it stops here.

    dirt

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  25. I am uneasy about the media attention this "trans kids" bs is getting. It is a trend, but one with horrible consequences. I am afraid a "tipping point" will be reached and take something that so far is just a problem on the most fringe element of hipster parents and religious fundamentalists, and push it into a full-blown epidemic. Very frightening to watch.

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  26. "Here, I find lesbians and others using their well-developed critical minds to critique something they feel threatened by."

    I suppose we shouldn't be threatened by the fact that child brainwashing is being advocated? I'm not a child and I don't have children so I should be cool with children getting thrown under a bus, right? 

    I think that sans childhood brainwashing, a small number of people will still have a pathological desire to modify their bodies. I'm not calling it 'trans' anything because I don't believe you can change sex and I don't believe in gender, but you get the point - some people will probably want a hand off/arm off/testicles off till the end of time. These people should be treated sanely and humanely.

    Its possible to believe this and be against *creating* neurosis, dysphoria and dependancy on the medical industry where there need not be any. The two arent mutually exclusive.

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  27. The real "threat" is viewing these matters through a feminist lens. Something few, especially (trans) females dare to do.

    dirt

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  28. A whole generation of future gay men and lesbians are being surgically and chemically castrated and altered. No, I’m not afraid to say it because someone must have the courage to speak the truth. When I sit down and carefully think about this, it’s like a ghoulish nightmare to me. This silent, mind numbing nightmare is slowly creeping up on the gay and lesbian community. Still, we as proud gay men and proud butches, dykes, and lesbians remain silent. We are conditioned to not upset the transgender community for fear of being labeled transphobic. Even as puberty suppressing drugs are given to eleven and twelve year old kids, we remain silent. Some of these sweet little “sissy” boys and tomboy girls are branded as transgender at six or seven years of age. Simply google “Trans Kids Purple Rainbow” and see all the young twelve and thirteen year old faces. Then, they are given puberty suppressing drugs to halt normal adolescent development. It’s believed that puberty is so frightening to these children that they aren’t allowed to undergo normal puberty. If cross gender hormones are given immediately after puberty blockers, these children can be sterilized. Af ter the puberty blockers, they are started on cross gender hormones at sixteen or seventeen. Finally, at eighteen they begin sex reassignment surgery.
    While most well-informed and educated people are aware that gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same, scientists and researchers have known for some time that many gender non-conforming children do grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Let’s say we have a slightly effeminate little boy. His parents are worried about him so they drag him to therapist who is eager to slap a label of gender dysphoria on him. They search the web and see “Trans Kids Purple Rainbow”, or a see an ad for a trans summer camp for kids from five to twelve years of age. The puberty blockers start followed by cross gender hormones. Some might say, well, this kid really is gender dysphoric. Perhaps he is, or perhaps the real problem is parental fear and disgust at having a little sissy boy. If this little boy goes through puberty blockers followed by cross gender hormones. Then, finally sex reassignment surgery when he is eighteen. He never gets the chance to become a gay man, or to love another man as a man. In essence, he is by outward appearances what his parents always wanted. That is, a heterosexual appearing adult. This is how Iran handles its homosexual problem. In Iran, homosexuality is punishable by death, but the government will pay for sex reassignment surgery. It’s the appearance of homosexuality that is terribly frightening and threatening, especially a slightly effeminate gay man. I’m fully aware that gender dysphoria does exist, and some people might need to transition. However, I’m also aware that homophobia is deeply entrenched, and some parents would do just about anything to keep from having a sissy boy or a tomboy little girl. In my opinion, the glorification and new found interest in all things trans related is just a comfortable way for some parents to deal with some serious underlying homophobic and lesbian phobic attitudes. Now, the little tomboy or sissy can be “fixed”.

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  29. I pose this question to trans activists. Please review all the studies below that show that many gender non-conforming children do, indeed, grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual. This is something we intuitively know, and see with our own eyes. Yes, many sweet little boys who are a little too sensitive and effeminate do, indeed, grow up to be gay men. Little tomboys do grow up to be lesbians. Perhaps not all, but a larger percentage do. To be honest, this is a no brainer. People understand this. So, this is my question. How many of these future gay men and lesbians are the trans activists willing to chemical and/or surgically alter in order to identify and help the few children who are really gender dysphoric, and might actually need to transition? To me, it seems clear that a whole generation of future gay men and lesbians are being thrown under the bus in order to accommodate parents who are terrified of having a little effeminate boy, or a girl who would rather play with trucks or baseballs than dolls. We don’t want to admit it, but it’s happening whether or not we choose to accept it. Lesbians, especially butch lesbians are almost an extinct species. The decline of feminism coupled with the glorification of gender queer and everything trans related has caused an explosion in FTM transsexuals. They can’t wait to get their breasts lopped off all in the name of “gender dyshporia” and trans. After all, Chaz Bono looked so awesome on “Dancing With the Stars”. This is another question for the trans activists. Have two women or two men ever gone “Dancing With the Stars” like Chaz Bono? I mean on national TV. Well, of course not because that would look so gay or butchy like a lesbian. See, if they look like a normal heterosexual couple that is all that matters. Two dykes “Dancing With the Stars” would never do. Here is another question for the trans activists. Isn’t the total destruction of the most feared and loathed rebellious female, the butch lesbian, the wet dream of patriarchy? Someone needs to come right out and say this because it’s happening. Trans activists are doing what lesbian phobic parents and misogynistic males and sexist society have always wanted to do. That is, destroy the very identify of lesbians because lesbians don’t fit neatly into the little heterosexual mold. Deconstruct the very identity of lesbian, and surgically alter the lesbian so that she is now a man. It takes a great deal of internalized misogyny to do this just like it takes a great deal of internalized misogyny to literally cut out the clitorises of young females in centuries old practice of female genital mutilation. The mutilation of female bodies is certainly nothing new. Simply ask African women who have had their clitorises removed in this barbaric practice if they believe that there is something unique or special about destroying, cutting out, or mutilation females bodies. In FM, the lesbian is destroyed along with her body parts. Butch lesbians threaten patriarchy more than FTM ever could. People intuitively know this, but we just don’t admit it. Who else benefits from the destruction of future gay men and dreadful lesbians? In the process of altering and mutilating the little sissy boys and dykes and butches, the medical establishment rakes in the dough from the puberty blockers, hormones, and all the surgery. See, everyone does well and the dykes and faggots are dealt with to boot. No one wants to be branded transphobic by saying anything, but I will speak the truth.

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  30. According to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981931,

    "Most children with gender dysphoria will not remain gender dysphoric after puberty. Children with persistent GID are characterized by more extreme gender dysphoria in childhood than children with desisting gender dysphoria. With regard to sexual orientation, the most likely outcome of childhood GID is homosexuality or bisexuality."

    An article in the Atlantic states,

    The most extensive study on transgender boys was published in 1987 as The “Sissy Boy Syndrome” and the Development of Homosexuality. For 15 years, Dr. Richard Green followed 44 boys who exhibited extreme feminine behaviors, and a control group of boys who did not... Green expected most of the boys in the study to end up as transsexuals, but nothing like that happened. Three-fourths of the 44 boys turned out to be gay or bisexual (Green says a few more have since contacted him and told him they too were gay). Only one became a transsexual. “We can’t tell a pre-gay from a pre-transsexual at 8,” says Green, who recently retired from running the adult gender-identity clinic in England. “

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/a-boy-apos-s-life/7059/3/

    A science daily article says,

    "Research which follows these children to adulthood shows that between 50 to 80 per cent of gender nonconforming boys become gay, and about one third of such girls become lesbian"
    (source:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110707173319.htm)

    Guess What! Some little tomboys do grow up to be lesbians. That is, unless they are surgically mutilated to become Trans men.
    Of course, then they aren't nasty lesbians and butches. See, the problem is easily solved. So, parents shouldn't worry after all.

    Sexual orientation and gender conforming traits in women are genetic

    http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/51225.html

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  31. Dirt, when you said the real threat is to view this from a feminist lense, you are correct.

    Trans women will never do this. The parents of these five year old "transgender" kids couldn't possibly comprehend it. Of course, nothing threatens patriarchy to the core as butch lesbians. Also, societal attitudes towards sissy gay men are centuries old.

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  32. Anon@ 3:42 a.m., Israeli Dancing with the Stars did have a female couple competing. Out lesbian sportscaster Gili Shem-tov paired with professional (straight) woman dancer Dorit Millman, and they were well-received, although they didn't win. Not because of discrimination, but because Shem-tov isn't a very good dancer.

    http://youtu.be/Jg6EjkvRCPA

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  33. "Certainly some people who come here will later go on to realize that they, themselves, are trans and that their hatred was fueled by self-hatred and denial. Same reason why closeted gay men bash and murder other gay men."
    I don't think that discussing theories behind the growing transsexual trend is akin to 'bashing' or murder. And I find the repeated assertion by transsexualists that doing so indicates latent 'transness' rather insulting.

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  34. I don't think butch females threaten the patriarchy at all. That seems rather like a delusion of grandeur. Straight men barely give a shit about women who aren't useful to them sexually. Why would they care if women they aren't attracted to are sleeping with other women. They also just assume that butches want to be men, since they often wear clothing designed for men, have haircuts that are traditionally male etc. Men have *power*. Butches do not. Men feel sorry for butches. Believe me. What would be truly threatening to men is if all women embraced the true strength and power of their bodies, their particular emotional intelligence, their particular physical abilities. Men cannot give birth, so they can't singlehandedly create the stooges for their corporations and wars. Men will never stop wanting sex with women, so I'd call for a worldwide armed straight sex-boycott to get some goddamn collective bargaining rights. Refusing to raise their progeny, clean their houses, work at their shitty corporate jobs in a any capacity. That's dangerous.

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  35. Butch lesbian have remain the largest threat to patriarchy, hence why out of all under the queer alphabet umbrella, Butches remain the ONLY lesbians who are invisible.

    dirt

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  36. Realistically, it doesn't seem to me that parents are particularly joyous about having a trans kid. There is usually a fair amount of trying to get the kid to accept their sex and assigned gender-role. In all the stories I've heard of young kids being trans, there is alot of grief expressed prior to acceptance. There is also a fair amount of suicidal thought/ideation. I know that you know there is a difference between sex and gender. And I know that statistically it's likely that some kids are asking to transition who might have grown up to be gay people. But these kids are talking about their genders, not their sexuality. It's fair to say they might have been gay but it's also fair to say they might think they are trans just because they feel different from other kids for a million other reasons. In any case, we have a situation where gender is being addressed separately from sexuality. Period. Many posters here did not grow up in a world where those two things were seen separately. A "drag queen" was "gay", though their gender performance has little to do with man on man sex. Now that it's a different world, I don't think you will be successful in setting back the clock to one where people *aren't* able to define their gender separate from their sexuality. It doesn't seem to me that the world works that way. Once an identity category is out there, you can't really take it away, even if you don't believe it's "real". You must deal in reality to be effective, and simply saying we are not real, or not able to have happy or successful lives or loves will not work because it's not true and it only resonates with those who would prefer to believe those things.

    In reality, many trans people identify as gay and appear as gay to the outside world. That is gay visibility, regardless of whether you accept it. If we are getting bashed alongside with gays, I don't really see what difference it makes. Many transpeople are visibly gender-nonconforming and make straight people very uncomfortable. The point is, if this was the plan of the patriarchy, it is not working to the patriarchy's advantage.

    I do see the appeal of the queer point of view. We don't have to police each other's bodies or desires to show strength and solidarity. I think young people are more drawn to that than being militaristic about staying isolated in a group. I may be wrong, but I maintain that you will have to change your strategy somehow to accept the reality of the situation. Since I spent a long time considering transition, my regrets are nil. But I don't want anyone else regretting this decision.

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  37. The grief is in the parents fears of homosexuality.

    dirt

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  38. little kids know as much about gender as they do about sexuality or anything else- it's all learnt by observing what's around them. why does 'queer theory' give 'gender' this special unassailable status?

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  39. Do you think queer theory believes sexuality should be assailable? I think that perhaps what queer-theory wants to be unassailable is people's sense of themselves and their right to live as they see fit.

    This is a truly weird philosophical question. You can't point to a trans person and claim to know who they are or who they would have been if they hadn't transitioned. So if you are claiming them for your group, you'd have to identify who the victim is in this "crime". Are the victims really gay people who do not get the comfort of seeing their own choices and bodies reflected as often in the world around them? Are we the theoretical victims who do not feel victimized? Can you assure us that if we had not transitioned we would have eventually come into comfort with our bodies, our sexes? No, you can't. Because you just don't know. You can *project* based only on your own experience.

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  40. I do not identify with a particular 'group' or wish that transsexuals would be part of my group. I do not think that 'comfort' should be life's primary goal. I simply believe in the correctness of nature and in Reality- the kind that exists beyond one's almighty Brain.

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  41. "They also just assume that butches want to be men, since they often wear clothing designed for men, have haircuts that are traditionally male etc."

    I don't buy it. Of course some men SAY this - but females wanting to BE men don't threaten these men, cus no penis = not male in their minds. What shakes shit up is females TAKING things that have been designated the sole preserve of men without without claiming to BE male. Short haircuts werent always traditionally male. When status was determined by how many servants you had, men incapacitated themselves with high heels and massive wigs to show off how they must have a ton of lackies to do stuff for them.

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  42. Just being homosexual these days unfortunately 'groups' you with transsexuals. (How many times a day do I hear 'LGBT' on the news when the story is about gay marriage or something?) I honestly don't see the logic there. It only confirms the belief that some lesbians 'want to be men' and gay men are 'like women.'

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  43. "Are we the theoretical victims who do not feel victimized?"

    I don't see why not since you don't have to 'feel victimised' to be the victim of a crime.

    "Can you assure us that if we had not transitioned we would have eventually come into comfort with our bodies, our sexes?"

    I agree that the answers no. But also I don't think transition guarantees it, and sexism and homophobia are the reason MOST people seek SRS and why theres a disproportionate number of gays and lesbians seeking it. The small number of people drawn to extreme body mods by mental illness, curiosity, being bored and rich etc. could be considered victims of those things too.

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  44. It wasnt too long ago that Butches were regularly raped by police officers because we dared to have a short hair cut or wear clothes the GSJ deemed "mens". In fact not so long ago women not having at least three articles of "female" clothing on, could be arrested. These things in fact still shake many males to their GSJed core.

    dirt

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  45. "Are we the theoretical victims who do not feel victimized?"

    I don't see why not since you don't have to 'feel victimised' to be the victim of a crime."

    Okay, sure. But then how do you quantify our victimization? Measure it up against the relative happiness of people who are gender-nonconforming and who don't transition? Freedom? By what measure? Because we have one element of dissatisfaction in our lives and seek to remedy it, and then believe that we successfully have, does that preclude our having full lives and a fully human process? What is the measure of a life well-lived?

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  46. "What shakes shit up is females TAKING things that have been designated the sole preserve of men without without claiming to BE male."

    I don't think so. At least I haven't really seen it done successfully. So far it looks like the very worst characteristics of male behavior are amplified in those females who try to "take" things in the sole preserve of men. Competitiveness, taking up too much space, volume, aggressiveness, violence, yuck. I don't like it in men and I don't like it in women. It's unfortunate that the WAY in which things are done in power can't change, rather than changing the character of the human trying to participate. If a female doesn't have to change her personality to compete in male pursuits, then she may be successful because she already exemplifies the more unpleasant traits of testosterone-dominant people. I'm far from finding an obnoxious, loud, competitive personality charming or sexy just because it has a vagina attached to it. And I've had access to the fragile, vulnerable side of men for long enough to know that they are constantly misread by females. Other aggressive men are not the only reason men are hesitant to show their feelings.
    I don't about any specific person's gender or body. What I care about is that we start changing the *way* power is held and wielded. There is something so strong about wielding softness, vulnerability, co-operation.

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  47. Transition isnt a "remedy", its a brutal life long "treatment" for a social disorder.

    dirt

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  48. Sounds like someone doesnt know any Butch lesbians.

    I've seen the same thing too, for decades in the BF community by dykes who ignorantly believe they are Butch and ignorantly believe Butch=male mimicry.

    These lesbians are usually those who wind up transitioning not surprisingly.

    dirt

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  49. Yakkity-yak Dirt. The real butches I know are secure enough in their identities to not try and fuck around with transmen.

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  50. “I don't think butch females threaten the patriarchy at all.”

    The person who posted this statement apparently failed to read all the utterly lesbian phobic hate filled words directed towards Dirt. Below are a few of the milder examples of the hatred of butch lesbians.

    "I would much rather see my daughter grow up to be a trans man and receive the respect that comes from being a man, rather than be steered into becoming a carpet muncher and someone who gets absolutely no respect in our society."

    This was directed towards a butch lesbian.

    "I hope you die in a fire."

    This was directed towards a butch lesbian. These statements are truly frightening.

    “In reality, many trans people identify as gay and appear as gay to the outside world. That is gay visibility, regardless of whether you accept it.”

    In this post, I’m not sure what “many trans people identify as gay” means. Does this mean MTF transsexuals or trans women? Well, MTF transsexuals don’t have penises. Perhaps some gay men really do want a human with a penis. Or, perhaps not all lesbians have a desire to wake up in the morning next to a person with a beard. If a little boy is slapped with a label of gender dyshoria when he is eight or nine, given puberty blockers followed by cross gender hormones, and finally SRS when he is 18, he doesn’t grow up to be a gay man. How can MTF transsexuals love men as men? By outward appearances, trans women are women. If a MTF transsexual lives with a man, based upon outward appearances, this happy couple could resemble any traditional heterosexual couple. The same would apply to FTM transsexual. For example, the neighbors of Thomas Beattie, the famous FTM who got pregnant three times, said that he and his wife appeared at first glance to be just another normal, heterosexual couple. He, masculine and sporting a beard, and she the perfect housewife were like the typical heterosexual couple. So, I’m not sure what to think of the statement, “In reality, many trans people identify as gay and appear as gay to the outside world.” Perhaps some do, but overall MTF and FTM is an actual erasure of gay and lesbian identity. This is an uncomfortable fact that trans activists and gender queer choose to ignore.

    FACT: According to Wikipedia, “As of 2008, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand. The government provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance, and a sex change is recognized on the birth certificate.”

    The government of Iran has repeatedly stated that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Yes, they really mean this. After all, homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran. However, the government will pay for sex reassignment surgery. Isn’t this the total erasure of gay identity? By outward appearances, these are now people who easily fit into society. In essence, they are no longer men loving men in a man’s body. So, to state that transgender is never related to the erasure of gay identity is false. The trans activists conveniently ignore the Iranian state sponsored coercion of the mutilation of gay men.

    “And I know that statistically it's likely that some kids are asking to transition who might have grown up to be gay people.”

    Is this person stating that he or she doesn’t have any problem with chemically and/or surgically altering future gay or lesbian children? For some reason, this individual can’t say the words “puberty suppressing drugs”, “cross gender hormones”, or “sex reassignment surgery”. When someone mentions puberty suppressing drugs, the trans activists become silent.

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  51. Let’s review what we do and do not know.

    First, if left alone, many of these young gender non-conforming children will grow up to be gay men or lesbians. Second, compared to twenty or thirty years ago, people are being diagnosed with “gender dyshporia” at much earlier ages. For example, Trans Kids Purple Rainbow and summer camps for trans children from the ages of five through twelve did not exist twenty years ago. Am I supposed to believe that cultural, parental, and environmental forces play no role whatsoever in this new found fascination with all things gender queer and trans related? The myopic view of trans activists is rather frightening to me. Trans activists can’t seem to be able to look at trends in culture or medical practices from a historical perspective. They only see what is in front of their eyes at the present moment. Only when we are able to step back and carefully observe what has and has not occurred over long periods of time do we start to fully understand where we stand at the present.

    “In any case, we have a situation where gender is being addressed separately from sexuality. Period. But these kids are talking about their genders, not their sexuality.”

    This can’t be proven one way or another. It also demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge related to history and culture. In reality, the very concept of gender is totally a cultural construct. For example, some native tribes and various cultures embraced two spirit people. They did not, however, attempt to mutilate or alter the bodies of their two spirit people through drugs or surgery. Unlike western medicine which seems to be more receptive to the idea of chemical and/or surgical alteration of the “gender dysphoric,” puberty suppressing drugs for “gender dysphoria” did not exist in these cultures. This is a new phenomenon, and perhaps we need to fully understand it. To casually throw the word gender or gender identity around without putting it into a cultural perspective is rather frightening. The very concepts of both gender and sexuality simply cannot be separated from the culture in which individuals are born, nurtured, and mature. Please google “Trans Kids Purple Rainbow”. Now, look at these young faces. Some don’t look much older than twelve or thirteen. Or, watch the Washington Post video of the five year old transgender kid. Are these children really talking about gender, or something that their parents put into their minds? I don’t want to sound disrespectful, but these kids have no idea who they are or what they want. So, to state that five year old children “are talking about their genders” is ludicrous on its face.

    “I do see the appeal of the queer point of view. We don't have to police each other's bodies or desires to show strength and solidarity. I think young people are more drawn to that than being militaristic about staying isolated in a group. I may be wrong, but I maintain that you will have to change your strategy somehow to accept the reality of the situation.”

    So, here is another gender queer/ trans activist that states that we must accept the reality of the situation. That is, the chemical and surgical mutilation of future gay men and lesbians.

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  52. “Many transpeople are visibly gender-nonconforming and make straight people very uncomfortable. The point is, if this was the plan of the patriarchy, it is not working to the patriarchy's advantage.”

    It literally makes my skin crawl when trans activists start talking about patriarchy. It’s a historical fact that most of the major women’s rights issues such as voting rights, reproductive health care and contraception, and equal pay were enacted before the 1990s when gender queer and trans became all the rage. As to FTM, the surgical mutilation of women’s bodies which gender queer and trans activists view as somehow therapeutic, trendy, or actually “revolutionary” is centuries old. No, it’s not new and it’s not revolutionary. Throughout history, it has taken various forms, but it is a constant that seems to disappear and then reappear. From Chinese foot binding to female genital mutilation, it never ceases. I do believe that some FTM really might be “gender dysphoric”. However, knowing the history of how women’s bodies have been mutilated throughout recorded time and knowing full well that misogyny isn’t dead, I’m simply not buying into the idea that misogyny and an utter revulsion of lesbians plays no part in the explosion of FTM transsexual. Moreover, The deconstruction of lesbian identity certainly is patriarchy’s wet dream.

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  53. When I glanced through this article, the tone of it made it seem as if transgender and transitioning (puberty blockers, cross gender hormones, surgery) was kind of like a fun trip to the mall. Instead of shopping for cool skinny jeans or the latest electronic gadget, you can try on a different gender. It’s all cool and exciting, and gender is something that can be purchased just like any other commercial product.

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  54. "So far it looks like the very worst characteristics of male behavior are amplified in those females who try to "take" things in the sole preserve of men."

    I was talking more about things like sturdy clothing, low maintenance haircuts, a neutral expression.

    "Competitiveness, taking up too much space, volume,
    aggressiveness, violence, yuck."

    I'm not saying these traits are essentially 'good' - just pointing out that they are VALUED by society, seen as status symbols, and the tolerance level for these traits in women is much lower. To many people, a woman sitting with her feet slightly apart is as 'gross' as a bloke sitting with his legs wide open scratching his nuts.

    "There is something so strong about wielding softness, vulnerability, co-operation."

    Co-operation: ok. But this weakness is strength stuff sounds kind of orwellian to me. Submission is an end-game survival strategy, much like animals play dead, not the actions of a free human being.

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  55. Yes, if you're a woman you should be soft and vulnerable, otherwise you're really supposed to be a man and should take steps to 'become' one.

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  56. "It literally makes my skin crawl when trans activists start talking about patriarchy."

    Because we are trans, we don't get to talk about the patriarchy? We don't get to have any cultural context as people, as thinkers, as anything but trans. Niiice.
    Dehumanizing, anyone?


    "Submission is an end-game survival strategy, much like animals play dead, not the actions of a free human being."

    Are the actions of a human being "free" if they have to be more aggressive, dominant, combative than they naturally might *just* to get along in this world? If all you do is only a reaction to someone else's action, then you are still enslaved. Would it not be better if we tried to get some wisdom from other ways of being than the one way we fucked up this entire planet and it's people? Why am I even having to argue this point here? I'll tell you: because you have the luxury of taking this personally. You think I'm trying to tell you (and all women) to lay down and be nice because you are female, but I am talking about the power structure. It's way more important than how *you* act or what you do with your body.

    "Yes, if you're a woman you should be soft and vulnerable, otherwise you're really supposed to be a man and should take steps to 'become' one."

    Sure, same old boring-ass critique. It's all about you, babe. From the same bunch of combative, angry, and self-involved dykes or whatever who *always* have problems with transpeople. You can't stop thinking we are out to destroy *you* or tell you who *you* are or tell you * you* are trans or you should behave a certain way because you are women. Know why? Because you can't stop thinking about yourselves in the first place for even one second. What I'm saying is that there are certain behaviors linked to hormones. If ya can't admit that, then you need to read more. Since men are in power, the behavior associated with their "strength" is celebrated and perpetuated. No, women and men do not have the same strengths, or hormonal makeup. If your platform is that we are all the same, maybe that's why feminism has hit a major hiccup. So maybe we should try learning from the strengths that many women have shown (NOT YOU, NOT YOU, NOT YOU!), such as co-operation, prioritizing community over self, maternal instincts,
    to lead us forward. Instead of scaffolding onto their system, create a new one and recognize the power of that. Take a leap with me and imagine that I am not talking about you at all, but the future of humanity. Like I've already said, I don't think it matters whether a person is male, female, trans, or a flying pear with a vagina for a face and two penises coming off their butt: If they are aggressive, combative, selfish, domineering, controlling or egocentric, I would rather not be around them and I don't think they should be in power. Especially that pear, because that would be unnerving at this point.

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  57. Personally I (as the anonymous poster quoted above regarding women not all being naturally gentle and yielding or whatever) am not at all combative- I am a quiet artist who is generally non-political but have had it with seeing so many young women saying that since they don't do 'female' correctly that they must imitate 'male' instead. If this is your idea of the future of mankind, where women are only very traditionally feminine and passive and men all super-''manly' and agressive, it sounds quite dystopian to me- ultra conformist. Why eliminate natural variation within the genders through medicine and surgery? Why does this enslavement look like freedom to you?

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  58. And I believe that Transism is extraordinarily egocentric by nature; classically Narcissist.

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  59. wouldn't all these females pumping testosterone into their systems only be adding to the problem of hornonally-caused aggression? the pear image is amusing- but what is everyone else required to think of and address it as without offending this pear and being accused of a hate crime?

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  60. "If this is your idea of the future of mankind, where women are only very traditionally feminine and passive and men all super-''manly' and agressive, it sounds quite dystopian to me- ultra conformist. Why eliminate natural variation within the genders through medicine and surgery? Why does this enslavement look like freedom to you?"

    I am also a quiet artist. I don't think you are hearing what I've been saying at all. Are you intentionally misreading me and preferring instead to believe that I am trying to tell people who they are or what they should do with their bodies? Transition doesn't have the power to "eliminate" natural variation within the genders. Transition doesn't change your gender. It changes how people perceive your sex, it changes your body, and it can change, through hormones, some aspects of your behavior. Some of that is even temporary. Transition cannot take away natural variation within the genders because transitioners still have their own genders. And the genders of transitioners are usually far from standard manly men and girly-girls. What looks like freedom to me is neither transition or not-transition. It's a wider human concept than gender. Freedom to me is accessing your true nature without inteference or warping it to try to meet someone else's expectations. People on this list believe that because some of us transition, we give up our rights to any other human process. That's because you have successfully allowed mainstream culture and society to dehumanize us for you. You see a fulcrum point of transition because that's what you want to look at. I see transpeople with full lives involved in all kinds of growing and learning. My wish for the future of mankind is for more gentleness, more co-operation, more eyes-on-the-prize type of thinking. It does seem to me, and I'm not afraid to say it, that females *can* tend to be better at this. I don't see what's wrong with saying that . For god's sake, I'm not trying to turn you into the earth mother so I can rape you with my "plow". My utopia would involve many people subverting their churlish egos and looking at what hasn't worked for us. Subverting *people* hasn't worked for anyone. Enslavement creates enemies.

    I am also a quiet artist. I don't think you are hearing what I've been saying at all. Are you intentionally misreading me and preferring instead to believe that I am trying to tell people who they are or what they should do with their bodies? Transition doesn't change your gender. It changes how people perceive your sex, it changes your body, and it can change, through hormones, some aspects of your behavior. Some of that is even temporary. Transition cannot take away natural variation within the genders because transitioners still have their own genders. And the genders of transitioners are usually far from standard manly men and girly-girls. What looks like freedom to me is neither transition or not-transition. It's a wider human concept than gender. Freedom to me is accessing your true nature without inteference or warping to try to meet someone else's expectations. People on this list believe that because some of us transition, we give up our rights to any other human process. That's because you have successfully allowed You see a fulcrum point of transition

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  61. How can someone's 'true nature' be accessed through externally sourced chemicals and mutilative surgical procedures?

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  62. "People on this list believe that because some of us transition, we give up our rights to any other human process"

    I support transitioner's human rights. I do not associate with people who think transitioners are subhuman.

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  63. Of course I also support all rights of people who call themselves transsexual, including their right to attempt transition; I just don't believe they are the sex or 'gender' they are trying to resemble and I also have the right to that belief.

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  64. "People on this list believe that because some of us transition, we give up our rights to any other human process"

    I support transitioner's human rights. I do not associate with people who think transitioners are subhuman.

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  65. Anon@4:51,

    This space is here to work towards dismantling the patriarchal structures and misogyny that create the many disorders female develops as a result, including the trans disorder.

    dirt

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  66. "How can someone's 'true nature' be accessed through externally sourced chemicals and mutilative surgical procedures?"

    I don't know. Is this a quiz? Because I never said it could.

    Also, I'm kinda hoping I'll expire before I hafta learn what to call pears with vaginas for faces and two penises coming out of their butts.

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  67. "So, here is another gender queer/ trans activist that states that we must accept the reality of the situation. That is, the chemical and surgical mutilation of future gay men and lesbians."

    It's possible that not only gays and lesbians will be sterilized and all this horrible crap. I once read a book about men who absolutely couldn't relate to other boys in during their childhhood and wished they were girls. These men are called "loveshys" I don't know if you ever heard about them. They also show signs of gender identity disorder in early childhood but grow up to be heterosexual men. So perhaps some of the gender nonconforming children who are currently facing or will face such "treatment" are heterosexual.

    Imagine the face of a homophobe father who supported the transition of his child when he learns that his "daughter" loves a girl.

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  68. "It literally makes my skin crawl when trans activists start talking about patriarchy."

    I’m truly sorry if this statement offends anyone, but when I think of puberty blockers given to twelve and thirteen year old children it does, indeed, make my skin crawl. Or, when I think of five year old “transgender” children, it also makes me rather uncomfortable. When I think of transgender, I sometimes think of Buck Angel the FTM porn star. I don’t want to sound disrespectful, but all the pornography/BDSM that emerged alongside queer theorists and trans activists does make my skin crawl. Am I supposed to apologize or feel guilty for feeling this way? Moreover, could anyone please explain to me what trans activists have actually done for women? That is, beyond the testosterone, puberty suppressing drugs, elective mastectomies for healthy young women, genital mutilation, and FTM/MTF/BDSM porn. The courageous women who fought for voting rights for women were called “suffragettes” not transwomen (MTF) or transmen (FTM), In terms of things that actually matter to women such as voting rights or reproductive health care, trans activists have contributed little, if anything. The various forms of violence inflicted upon women throughout recorded history is simply too horrendous to properly describe in this blog. So, trans activists are certainly free to talk about patriarchy all they want, but certain aspects of “trans feminism” do make my skin crawl. I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but this is how I actually feel. For some reason, I can’t seem to wrap my mind around the concept of elective mastectomies for healthy young women, or years of testosterone. Please forgive me for being so callous and insensitive. I must be one of those pesky radfems that trans activists always have to correct. After all, feminism should be led by MTF transsexuals (XY) or trans women because us poor, ignorant genetic females (XX) don’t know what is best for us.

    ”Sure, same old boring-ass critique. It's all about you, babe. From the same bunch of combative, angry, and self-involved dykes or whatever who *always* have problems with transpeople. You can't stop thinking we are out to destroy *you* or tell you who *you* are or tell you * you* are trans or you should behave a certain way because you are women. Know why? Because you can't stop thinking about yourselves in the first place for even one second. “

    Isn’t it so selfish for nasty dykes to think of our own needs? Women have been conditioned from infancy to think of the needs of others before our own needs. Now, we must address all our attention towards MTF transsexuals or trans women. They play on this guilt, our nurturing instincts, and our natural tendency to think of others firts. Trans activists act as if they are the most oppressed people on earth. At the Philadelphia Trans Health Center, thousands of people attended. They get government and corporate support. Trans women can’t stand the fact that lesbians want a couple of days a year to have a conference or a women’s music festival so they pout, throw a hissy fit, and get their was as usual. Camp Trans camps outside the fence at the Michigan Women’s Music Festival. Trans women just won’t take no for an answer when they are told that perhaps female rape victims don’t want to be counseled by MTF transsexuals. They continue to harass and intimidate Vancouver Rape Relief. Trans women even have workshops at Planned Parenthood of all places entitled, “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women” which excluded FAAB (female assigned at birth). At the GLBT Center close to where I live there are three transgender groups and a couple of queer groups, but not one single support group for lesbians. I mean not one group for lesbians.

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  69. "At the GLBT Center close to where I live there are three transgender groups and a couple of queer groups, but not one single support group for lesbians. I mean not one group for lesbians."

    Are you able/willing to start one?

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  70. Trans Kids Purple Rainbow says,

    “Chris started last year as “Grace” and “she”. I had thoughts over the years that he may be transgender as he always dressed in boys clothes and “acted” like a boy. BUT I as most people figured he was just a “tomboy.” I really thought thought that he might be transgender when at around 7 years old. He said “Mom, I am supposed to be a boy would you care if I had sex change surgery when I was older?” Of course it stunned me but I calmy said “No, I wouldn’t care. I love you no matter what”

    “Essie was born a boy. Essie transitioned at the age of 6, but she has known since the age of 1 that she was a girl.”

    http://www.transkidspurplerainbow.org/transyouth-stories/meet-chris/

    Do seven year old children really understand what sex change surgery means? Where did this idea come from? If cross gender hormones are given immediately after puberty suppressing drugs, there is the possibility of making these children infertile. Could sterilizing children be construed as child abuse, or a human rights issue? The trans activists and the trans community dance around this issue and cleverly throw up a smoke screen or diversion to keep inquisitively people from questioning anything done in the name of transgender. Can anyone say that none of these children will ever live to regret the puberty blockers, cross gender hormones, or surgery that surgically castrated them and made them infertile? No, I don’t see how anyone can make such a claim. Since we are talking about human rights of transitioners, shouldn’t we talk about human rights of children?

    Another touchy issue that makes trans activists and the trans community automatically throw up smoke screens and diversions, and wail to high heaven ”“transphobia” is the very touchy subject of literally erasing gay and lesbian from the face of the earth. We can’t even imply that this might be happening for fear being screamed at and branded as transphobic. Most knowledgeable people know that gender identity and sexual orientation aren’t he same thing. Having said this, scientists and researchers have known for some time that a large percentage of these sweet, little effeminate boys and over active tomboys, if left alone, eventually grow up to be gay men and lesbians. I am convinced that some of these young children might really be “gender dysphoric”, and might be better off transitioning. This is the problem. At age eight or nine, or even sixteen, there appears to be no way of knowing who is pre-gay or pre-lesbian or actually pre-transsexual. These children don’t get to be gay or lesbian. These are children who never grow up to love men as men, or to love women as women. Is erasing gay and lesbian identity a human rights issue? Once again, I pose this question. In order to identify and treat the few children who really are gender dysphoric and could benefit from transitioning, how many future gay men and lesbians are people willing to surgically and/or chemically castrate?

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  71. "People on this list believe that because some of us transition, we give up our rights to any other human process"

    "I support transitioner's human rights. I do not associate with people who think transitioners are subhuman.”

    I firmly believe that all human kind including men, women, intersex, transgender, gay, straight, bisexual, or lesbian deserves respect and dignity. We are all human beings. For some strange reason, trans activists have great difficulty even acknowledging human rights issues and concerns that don’t directly impact them. Before I discuss some of these issues that trans activists and the trans community have repeatedly shied away from, or cleverly danced and darted around, let’s discuss “transitioning”. What do people mean when they say, “I support transitioner’s human rights”? What is “transitioning”? To me, it’s very interesting how this word came about. Isn’t “transitioning” just another way of saying chemical and/or alternation of the human body? Sex reassignment surgery, puberty blockers, and cross gender hormones do seem to come with more risks than say simply getting one’s ears pierced, or getting a tattoo. Isn’t sex reassignment surgery considered major surgery that involves removal of healthy tissue? The very concept of “transitioning” which includes drastically altering the human body through surgery and hormones is different than being transgender or gender variant. The idea of “transitioning” and gender identity can’t be separated from culture. For example, some native tribes and cultures had no problem with their two spirit people. There is a difference between these ancient cultures and today. Not all of these cultures thought it was necessary to fix or surgically alter their two spirit people. Today, puberty suppressing drugs are given to our two spirit people. So, I don’t see how it is possible to separate the concepts of “transitioning” and gender variance from culture and the specific period in time in which people live. Trans activists and the trans community seem to believe that transitioning and transgender is somehow immutable, fixed, and certain. It’s the same for all people everywhere, and culture, family or parental influences play no role in transitioning. Instead of stubbornly insisting on transitioner rights, or the right of people to chemically and/or surgically alter their bodies, why not focus on ways to make people more comfortable with their own bodies. Or, focus on questioning societal pressures to surgically alter bodies to conform to some traditional view of how men and women should appear.
    Since some people are so concerned about “transitioner human rights”, let’s discuss human rights. Don’t children have human rights too? Children are being slapped with a label of transgender at much earlier ages. In most countries, people have to be eighteen for sex reassignment surgery. However, there some doctors in Thailand who have reportedly been performing this surgery on children as young as fourteen years of age. German teenager Kim Petras underwent sex reassignment surgery at sixteen years of age.

    According to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1135724/From-Tim-Kim-German-pop-star-16-worlds-youngest-transsexual-sex-change-op.html

    “The pop singer - born Tim - is well known in Germany for having started hormone replacement therapy as part of her gender transition by the age of 12…The costs of her procedure were covered by health insurance as her condition was officially diagnosed as an illness.”

    One would think that Germany of all countries would be a tad uncomfortable with experimenting on children, and in the process sterilizing them. So, the government of Germany apparently pays to sterilize its own children. That is, just the little boys who might be a bit too effeminate. That is very interesting. These sweet little boys don’t deserve to have their testicles, or to father children. I can only imagine what they do to little tomboys.

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  72. "I feel your pain, but you are overstepping your bounds."

    For me, this is the white hot center of the heat that is the transgender debate in circles like this. Do you find this overstepping of boundaries plays out all around us and with so many other issues? I do – how could it not, it’s the nature of the culture!

    But like all so-called great empires, this one too shall crumble because trampling the boundaries of everyone and everything on earth in any way/shape/form = annihilation; first of Others, and then of Self.

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  73. When I said "I support transitioners human rights" I meant full legal protection for those who have altered their bodies to look like the opposite sex. Its disgusting that being gender-critical carries the implication of being pro- discrimination/harassment/genocide of people who have had plastic surgery, but thats the card certain activists like to play so lets nip that shit in the bud.

    Theres some major questions whether transitioning itself is a human right and like you say, in some cases advocating medical transition is literally breaching human rights.

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  74. Whats next, anorexic rights? BIID rights? Lobotomy rights? FGM rights???

    Human rights are FEMINIST rights and drugging and mutilating those who develop social disorders is NOT a right, it is misogyny in disguise.

    dirt

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  75. Dirt, obviously my wording was crap. I didn't mean the right to transition (or starve yourself or cut your arm off) I meant the rights of people who have had SRS not to be threatened, beaten or murdered.

    Just sick of pro-transitioners making out that gender critics advocate trans beatings and killings.

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