Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, April 15, 2012

Transgender Fear and Loathing of Truth and Reality

I received this warning last night that someone or ones were trying to hack into my email:
note the time....When this amateurish attempt at hacking fails she (we can reasonably assume it is a she since this is a femalecentric blog and nearly all my readers are women) then googles hacking me. See below:
Can you imagine the insane insecurities this woman must possess by trying to hack into my email account? The simple truth is regardless of what any of these fools do, dirt isnt going anywhere anytime soon. And rest assured I will be one of the primary people responsible for putting an end to the unhealthy drugging and mutilative "treatment" of the trans disordered by replacing the barbarity by treating this exactly where it lies, the mind!

dirt
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85 comments:

  1. "And rest assured I will be one of the primary people responsible for putting an end to the unhealthy drugging and mutilative "treatment" of the trans disordered by replacing the barbarity by treating this exactly where it lies, the mind!"

    I look forward to your follow-up studies on how to cure gay people through electroshock therapy and "hysterical women" through isolation.

    Or, you know, maybe not, but that's the kind of company you're keeping when you make claims like that.

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  2. the difference between homosexuality and transsexuality is that the former requires no 'cure' or 'treatment'

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  3. The comparison (a very common one) is illogical.
    It implies that NOT wanting people to 'cure' themselves of being 'defective,' being the 'wrong' sex (because they are not the wrong sex, because it's a nonsensical idea) is the same as WANTING people to cure themselves of being 'defective' (gay, hysterical)

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  4. Erin, who do you think drugged and performed ECT on gay men and coined the term 'hysteria'? Hint: the same industry that does the 'sex changes' of today.

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  5. You seem to know some history, but missed that in the countries where gays and lesbians were "criminals" they still encouraged "transition" because they saw it as a cure for homosexual deviance. In Japan any girl who had unapologetic lesbian feelings was thrown into asylums... now if this sick pseudo-science takes hold they'll be legally funneled into transition to "cure" them of their terrible lesbianism. Conservative types are waiting in anticipation of how to use this to scientifically slam people into their "proper" gender boxes (while making a profit doing it). You couldn't measure how much fear and control people could milk this for especially with a greedy pop psych industry and mindless cheerleaders like you helping them do it. The lucky lesbian will find herself back in a closet at best. How do you not get this. You're the one whose "keeping that kind of company" not Dirt.

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  6. "And rest assured I will be one of the primary people responsible for putting an end to the unhealthy drugging and mutilative "treatment" of the trans disordered by replacing the barbarity by treating this exactly where it lies, the mind!"...

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
    Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
    Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
    Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
    Requires excessive admiration
    Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
    Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
    Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
    Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
    Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

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  7. @ 4:54 PM


    You do know you just defined what most of us have complained about and experience regularly with gender-obsessed trans people right? Using your DSM quote someone could easily shred the entirety of the trans cult philosophy, their strategies and that psychotic wishlist they made taking each of those diagnosis requirements one by one and using it revealingly against them.

    I really hope that was the point of your comment.

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  8. It would be funny if it weren't so sad. You'd have to be paying quite a bit of attention to any trans person to "experience regularly" *anything*.Do you seek us out? I find plenty of reason to suspect that many gays suffer from narcissistic self- involvement, but I just steer clear of them. Do you know how to do that? Are you simply annoyed that another group has come along to depose you of your spot on the righteousness throne? Were you okay with trans people until we started demanding rights? Did you feel kinda sorry for us until we started taking up real space? you should pay attention to those feelings. What I was referring to above came from an article about the diagnosis of Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian who shot 77 people, claiming self-defense against the encroaching liberalism and multi-culturalism in Norway. He believes he has acted in solidarity with a far-right movement. I'm not sure you have had time to read the news in between looking for ways that trans people are "hurting" you. Dirt reminds me of this guy. She's convinced of her marytyrdom, and her righteousness, but is utterly without self-critique and so fired up against transsexuality that she can hardly think clearly (much less write well or spell correctly). Yes, I do think she is delusional, as do most people I know, trans and non-trans alike. When I originally looked at this blog, I thought that some topics were worth consideration. Trans people NOT EXISTING is not one of them. Nor is it a worthy or achievable goal. We have always been here and we always will be. Feel free to waste your life in the tireless pursuit of an utterly pointless and self-motivated battle. The rest of us will be out here doing real work against real evil. Ever hear of hunger? Modern-day slavery? Human trafficking? Oh, nevermind.

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  9. @Anon 8:32pm

    Like so many male and female transitioners that one way or another find dirt's little space, you miss the broad side of the barn by miles. As a male transitioner myself (m2t for those that haven't yet read dirt's post about terminology), the behaviour of the collective internet tranny posse simply blows my wheels -- each time I think I've seen the lowest of the low, my wheels get blown off all over again.

    This blog isn't about hating on transitioners as PEOPLE. I think you'll find many of the regular commenters here aren't rounding us up with pitchforks and torches held high while building gas chambers to lead us all into. What they're dissecting is transgenderism (?) in general. If it weren't for misogyny, the gender straight jacket, homophobia and the willingness of the male dominated medical machine to mutilate otherwise healthy people, transgenderism could be treated as a disease of the MIND and not the BODY. Body dysphoria is something suffered by a surprising (to me anyway) number of butch lesbians. Body dysphoria is not something unique to those that identify as transitioners, and hormones + surgery seems barbaric when you look at it from the long view. Conform, conform, conform to the GSJ!

    Dismantling and discussing the very things that allow transgenderism to exist is very valid, and for the love of all that is good in the world, NOT PERSONAL. Feelings don't enter the equation.

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  10. " I think you'll find many of the regular commenters here aren't rounding us up with pitchforks and torches held high while building gas chambers to lead us all into."

    Right!

    To all those who think we want you gone: recently I saw an elderly male transitioner being assaulted by a young man and I intervened without a second thought. So I think sex is reality and gender is fantasy? I'm ready to defend your flesh and blood, any time. Tell me why thats not enough?

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  11. "Dismantling and discussing the very things that allow transgenderism to exist is very valid, and for the love of all that is good in the world, NOT PERSONAL. Feelings don't enter the equation."

    Trans disordered often do not get this because they were raised with postmodernism and in postmodernism everything is personal and just that.
    No cultural influences, no brianwashing, no biologic matter that define you. People exist in a vacuum and are purely individual in the minds of these people. Therefore, all criticism is interpreted as a personal attack, and generalizing over classes of people is impossible.

    It's as if a poor worker anno 1870 got offended by Marx when Marx would have told the worker he was oppressed and his religion was like opium. "But it's my personal choiiiice!" the worker would say if he were pomo.

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  12. I don't believe that people exist in a cultural vacuum OR that they exist *purely* as the result of the culture. People do have relationships with their bodies that can exist in the realm of the intuitive, the spiritual, the physical. Why must your thinking be so polarized? Who are you and what is it that makes YOU so ready to discount a connection between the mind and the body? Transitioning is in fact a biological process and hormones affect a person on a molecular level without having Marx or Dworkin or Friedan present. The results are desired *physical* results and actually can bring a sense of hitherto unattainable peace, calm, and happiness to people who are truly suffering. Why do you believe you have the right to discount what they report as their personal experience? I will say, here, that I think passing can be a major part of this and I know not everyone gets to experience that. I will never be convinced, though, that dismantling *all* socialized gender is possible or even necessarily desirable. Socialized gender is, at least partly, built on physical realities and physical differences between the sexes that exist biologically. That will never change. As a species humans have been differentiated for specific purposes. I think nature will always have a say in what humans try to change with their theories.
    Regarding your Marx example, I think the liberal savior-complex model is tired. The worker is capable for figuring out for herself whether her life is satisfying, whether she is a mental slave, a stooge or a dupe. It's your delusions of grandeur that cause you to believe that you have some access to "the truth" that other people don't. A serious case of self-importance. Stop undervaluing people's personal lives and experiences in favor of *your* ivory-tower idea of what kind of "freedom" people should want.

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  13. wait, what type of thinking is MORE polarized than belief in Transsexualism? (I'm not a proper woman so therefore I'm a man etc)- and what belief is more built upon delusions of grandeur? (I am what I SAY I am, not what nature has made me, therefore my thoughts outweigh all physical reality)

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  14. Many transsexuals are actually quite well-versed in reality, despite your predjudiced assertions. I know I wasn't born a biological male. However, physical transition was and is desirable to me. I rarely *say" I am anything anymore because my physical reality speaks for itself and not much more needs to be said. There is no "grandeur" in that. It is what it is. I'm not begging for your respect for my identity, and I don't necessarily just dole out respect for others' identities, such as "gay", "lesbian", or whatever. Historically, there has been great outrage and resentment for transsexuals for being "selfish" and whatnot. Basically, this outrage reduces to a human need to control and reject what is different. That gays are doing it to trans people is no great surprise because *actual* humility has been learned by very few people in the course of their lives. What has been reinforced is that "gay" is the very last kind of different that will be tolerated. People were having same-sex sex for hundreds of years before "gay" was put forth as some kind of actual identity. That should give you pause. "Gay" is not necessarily a real identity, it may be simply a sexuality in the future. Scarcity thinking has caused gay people to believe that trans people are capable of taking something away from gay people. Self-involvment and oppression has caused gay people to have only a single gay lens through which to view the world. This causes gay people to claim young trans people as "future gays" without a chance to develop. It's incredibly myopic to project this kind of identity based on your own experience in this world. Not to mention slightly creepy to project an adult sexuality onto a child who exhibits their gender at a far younger age than sexuality presents itself. Were we not all affected by oppression and marginalization, we might have access to thinking outside of scarcity.

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  15. How does a child 'exhibit' his or her 'gender?'
    Do you really think people are opposed to the theory of transsexualism simply because it's different?

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  16. Honestly, I am a 14 year old transgender boy and you people are ridiculous. My friends who are the same age as me and even younger can understand the concept of being transgender or transsexual while you all being adults cannot? This appalls me though I am not surprised that adults can be so closed minded. I just hope that you all know that most of you can be the reason that a transgender or transsexual kid or adult commits suicide. Just know that.

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  17. Some of us "adults" have been through the same thing and thats how we know exactly what the fuck we're talking about tiny. And knock off the manipulative emotional blackmail baby shit. Do what I want you to "or else" is so fucking disgusting youve got no shame and youve got no argument. If I do myself in tomorrow it's because I alone chose to for whatever reason and I need help not everyone enabling me. Besides, how many Lesbians do you think have felt suicidal over all this shit because of the trans and their brutal ways of doing everything? "I just hope that you all know that most of you can be the reason that a LESBIAN kid or adult commits suicide. Just know that." Right back at you fuckhead.

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  18. Riiiigght. Lesbians feeling suicidal because of trans people? More like repressed transmen feeling suicidal because others are moving forward and addressing their issues. Or feeling suicidal because their lesbian " friends" are unable to grow up and be supportive of people who differ from them.

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  19. you really shouldn't call a 14 year old girl a 'fuckhead'
    just because she's a kid who is swept up in this gemder nonsense that nobody is apparently allowed to question

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  20. At 14 I was still learning how to talk to people I had a crush on, and focusing on my homework and getting by in school. I didn't have a single clue about who I was, or what I was doing. Absolutely no way can I give any credibility to a child who has not experienced enough of the world (and no, regardless of "what you've been through", you haven't experienced enough of the world) to understand who they truly are to the very core of their being.

    When you have grown up, seen a little bit of life, and maybe have some understanding of the fact that transgenderism is a sickness of the mind, that should be treated in the mind, not with mutilation of the body, I think your comments will have more credibility.

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  21. Your lack of human emotion is showing (oops didn't mean to compliment you) trans disordered victim. Your little paragraph is based on the idea that the universe revolves around Trans; it does not. Ah, internalized this and that, people noticed the new cult move leaving no escape (oh no, now we're all trans no matter who we are, what we say or what we do!) and it's as delusional and laughable as everything else. Still, your snide little "Riiiigght" sounds exactly like a typical, immature cocky little man-boy. Guess the hormones are working. Maybe you can join a Men's Rights Group - I'm sure they'd just love to have you... you go, 'girl'.

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  22. And how is it that trans people are causing lesbians to feel suicidal? Spell it out for me, because I thought we were all responsible for our own actions. I'll ignore your weak personal taunts just in case you are one of these "victimized" lesbians.

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  23. There are 100s of genderist spaces out there on the internet. Can't gender atheists have this one space to discuss whats relevent to US? Being ex trans-ID'd, left simply as a human with a biological sex, I am not welcome most places to discuss my ongoing issues sans Genderism.

    Anon 5:38: step back and look at what this article is about. Gender atheist blog gets hacked by genderists. Its there, black and white who tries to get rid of a different point of view by force. Reversal is the oldest tactic in the book.

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  24. I don't think the poster was actually claiming that transsexuals make leabians kill themselves but that it's just as silly as transsexuals saying that homosexuals make them commit suicide

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  25. 5:38
    I came back hoping for an answer to 'How does a child 'exhibit' his or her gender?'
    Guess I'm not surprised there was no answer because there IS no answer.
    Well, the standard answers are things like
    playing with the 'wrong' toys
    being friends/identifying with the 'wrong' people
    thinking the 'wrong' thoughts
    etc

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  26. "I will never be convinced, though, that dismantling *all* socialized gender is possible or even necessarily desirable. Socialized gender is, at least partly, built on physical realities and physical differences between the sexes that exist biologically. That will never change."

    Except the very biology that you seek to base gender on is unchanged and unchangable, whatever surgery or hormones or wishful thinking.

    So, I'm NOT saying that women don't require/deserve to be treated differently in certain circumstances based on facts of their biology (like the fact that SOME biological women are capable of getting pregnant and NO biological man is!). But saying that we extend beyond that is EXACTLY the argument the patriarchy uses to support womens oppression on grounds of their SEX -- women ARE physically different, they say, hence it's logical that they be treated differently (because our baby-bearing brains are less able to do hard, demanding jobs, hence why we earn less..............).

    "Transitioning is in fact a biological process and hormones affect a person on a molecular level.." Transitioning is a physical and chemical alteration/intervention with a persons functioning, but won't change their actual biology. Okay, hormones are molecules - but so is ANY substance we ingest or inject.

    No amount of wishful thinking will alter the fact that injecting hormones for years WON'T change your basic biological sex, although it may screw up the functioning of the system that you started with.

    This is just voodoo pseudoscience, the vain belief that if you take male hormones for long enough, then your body somehow attains a magical 'male' essence after enough time. Nope, you just end up with a female body with female genes and female organs operating under a gross hormone inbalance, not a male body, with male organs or male biology, however hard you try with surgical simulacra of male organs...........

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  27. "Why do you believe you have the right to discount what they report as their personal experience?"

    Because its incredibly naive (as well as rather stupid) to say that we HAVE TO accept everyones personal interpretation of their own experiences as the only valid interpretation.

    ""Gay" is not necessarily a real identity, it may be simply a sexuality in the future. Scarcity thinking has caused gay people to believe that trans people are capable of taking something away from gay people. Self-involvment and oppression has caused gay people to have only a single gay lens through which to view the world. This causes gay people to claim young trans people as "future gays" without a chance to develop."

    AM I the only one who spotted this? Seems to be saying that young people who show gender variance (as many people who later turn out to gay do) are perhaps not REALLY gay (gay not being a proper identity), but really trans people who have mistakenly coped with their sex/gender variance by assuming the invalid 'gay identity' instead? And that us adult gays are somehow WORRIED that if trans becomes more prominent, then we won't have so many gender-variant kids deciding they're gay..............

    "Not to mention slightly creepy to project an adult sexuality onto a child who exhibits their gender at a far younger age than sexuality presents itself." Heteronormativity at it's BEST, whilst trying to accuse gays of being delusional (not a real identity), and paedophiles at the same time!

    Of course, the REAL problem is society projecting its SEX-BASED roles onto children, and then policing their attempts at 'doing jenduh', and drugging the ones who don't do it right.

    I don't give a flying fuck if 'gay' is a proper identity or not, because I'm not the one who is obsessed with 'identity' and trying to get others to accept my own interpretation of my own feelings of identity.

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  28. precicely, BD
    I've never thought of my gayness as my 'identity' but since TRansism is all about 'identifying' as male or female, believers assume homosexuals are doing the same sort of thing, being in the same 'community' and all

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  29. Let's face it, homoSEXUALITY isn't an 'identity' or something you can identify AS, it's just that you're one sex (unchangable), and romantically, and spiritually, and hence sexually attracted to other members of the same sex as your own. It's something you. So, some people ARE homosexual, just don't 'identify with' one particular brand of the gay lifestyles on show around them.

    Homogenderism, on the other hand, like gender, is soemthing that you can 'identify as', just as people 'identify as' being male or a man without actually being male. It's all about who you claim you are, and YOUR interpretation of who/how you love. Hence, if you take any of this seriously, you can have a male that 'identifies as' a woman, and then 'identifies as' a lesbian.

    But just as 'identifying as' a woman can't actually change your sex, so identifying as a lesbian won't actually make you a lesbian if you're not actually of the female SEX. So, just as trans are appropriating the label 'woman' and trying to claim it means gender not biology and sex, so they're also trying to appropriate the label lesbian, and claim it's about gender and not sex.

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  30. "Stop undervaluing people's personal lives and experiences.."

    Rather rich when it's the trans crowd steamrollering their way over the lives and experiences of women and lesbians when they keep saying that they're a sex NOT a gender, and attracted to the SAME sex not the SAME gender. Nope, we'll just keep ignoring you, and scream 'transphobe' whenever you protest.

    "You'd have to be paying quite a bit of attention to any trans person to "experience regularly" *anything*.Do you seek us out?"

    It's NOT ABOUT YOU, the danger is in the ideology, not the people.

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  31. "I've never thought of my gayness as my 'identity' but since TRansism is all about 'identifying' as male or female, believers assume homosexuals are doing the same sort of thing"

    This can be extended to the whole 'cis' thing - the trans assumption that non-trans have a mystical gender identity AT ALL, let alone one that aligns with their sex. I bought into this for years and used it to justify my own 'identity' trumping biology. When I stopped and asked non-trans instead of ASSuming, it turned out their 'gender identity' was no more than observing the reality of their biological sex with their 5 senses.

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  32. Hilarious that you would take offense at the suggestion that who you presume is a future gay might actually be trans. The presentation of gendered behavior at a young age has no bearing on future homosexual desire. The two are completely separate.

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  33. gendered behavior- now that's hilarious!
    care to explain what that means exactly especially in children?
    i would never presume any child is a future gay or (of course) any kind of trans

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  34. If trans and gay are 'completely separate' why on earth is T included with LGB?

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  35. There is a good reason why children who have same-sex crushes might feel extra alienated from their sex role and even question their physical sex. Presented with the straight model of prince + princess since day one, I can remember thinking 'one of us must really be a boy' when I had a mutual crush on the girl next door.

    Of course not all kids question their sex/sex role over a same-sex crush but I think thats the reason for the trend.

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  36. i'm not sure romantic interest usually plays a role in kids thinking they're 'supposed to be' the opposite sex though it likely can have an effect- most kids say it's 'identification' with the opposite sex or having play-patterns more often associated with the opposite sex or disliking the clothing etc. expected to be liked by people of their boological sex

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  37. "The presentation of gendered behavior at a young age has no bearing on future homosexual desire."

    Really? A statement of belief, I think, from someone who is desperate to present 'gendered behaviour' as innate (rather than influenced by social conditioning).

    And surely you mean homogendered there, there was me thinking you thought gender trumps biological sex................

    The facts at the moment, anyway, seem to be that many kids who display what adults will persist in labelling as gender inappropriate behaviour turn out to be gay in later life. I think you'd prefer it if they were instead seen as poor, failed trans...........

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  38. I'm talking about children and yet you still manage to bring into it the idea that crushes are somehow ubiquitous at such an early age! Is your mind so *gay* and myopic that you cannot imagine a child presenting some gender that aligns with some established norm BEFORE they are sexual? Or is everything related to gayness and the victimhood of gays? Hello? Why, then, do feelings of cross-gender identification persist after same-sex relationships have been achieved? Why so many people coming out as trans *now* when acceptance for gayness is at the highest point it's been. Gay people have communities, support, organizations, bars, churches, neighborhoods, jobs, and higher-education that bends over backwards to be supportive to gay people. Why so many trans people who identify as gay and partner with people of their same gender, if it's internalized homophobia that caused their gender issues? I'm not saying we are totally where we should be as a society, but it defies logic that transness was invented to breed to the gay out. Why are there so many transmen who physically transition at a time in history when women have more freedom than ever to define themselves-to work, to be financially independent, to partner with women, to dress, act and be how they want? Why so many transitioning in big cities, if the homophobia of small towns is causing transition? Does anyone want to think rationally about this? Seems incredibly self-involved as a community to take a whole damn group of people who DON'T identify with you and find a way to relate it back to you and your oppression. To BLAME US for your oppression. WE ARE NOT AN OFFSHOOT OF GAY! GET IT THROUGH YOUR GAY HEADS!

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  39. "Hilarious that you would take offense at the suggestion that who you presume is a future gay might actually be trans."

    Actually, I'd 'take offence' at the suggestion that anyone IS trans (which assumes, before you even start, that innate gender identity is TRUE, and that links between sex and gender are TRUE).

    I don't think that BEING gay (i.e., is gay innate or not) matters either, being gay/becoming gay, makes no odds as long as we have a situation where people can recognise that gay isn't an illness, or morally wrong, or a sin.

    But BEING trans (as opposed to BECOMING trans) -- BIG difference there, because all true believers in gender must see that gender as innate, a unalterable part of your identity. And then also accept the links between sex and gender (else how does anyone get mis-gendered apart from the basic fact that we supposedly ASSUME gender based on sex).

    Anyhow, it's just the same ole boring game of trying to make false analogies between trans and homosexuality.

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  40. why do you accept the premise that presenting gender that aligns with certain norms means that a kid is 'trans?' why can't kids just not match those (actually ever-changing) norms and simply be what they ACTUALLY are?

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  41. "To BLAME US for your oppression."

    Don't get your knickers in a twist, I KNOW who to blame (the patriarchy, for the hard of thinking) -- just that the DAFT trans beliefs as regards gender and sex and biology don't exactly help, since they are, in essence exactly what the menz have been saying to women all along -- that we're different in the head to men.

    You may think acceptance for gayness is at a high, but the gender straightjacket is tighter than it has been for years. Girls now have FEWER options that they did even twenty years ago, or has the avalanche of pink miseed you.............

    "BEFORE they are sexual?" O, you're REALLY desperate to keep on with this aren't you, that sexuality and development of sexuality can be SEPARATED from lovely innate gender, which somehow precedes everything else!

    There is only ONE thing that is really innate, and that does precede everything else, and thats your SEX.

    Everything else, even the magical innate gender that you believe in so desperately, happens after society has started mucking about with your little head.

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  42. i agree that trans and gay have nothing to do with one another and have been upset for many years that everything gay has turned into LGBT (like the nyc pride parade, political orgs etc) i've always thought that trans would fit better with people with other kinds of body image disorders or similar kinds of delusion built around image

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  43. You hit the nail on the head again, BadDyke
    She was 100% female before she was even born, well before she started doing the 'wrong' behavior for a girl (since if it's an established norm, it's unassailable)
    I don't think young people are even aware that this ideology is utterly conservative; they've been taught this stuff since they were little
    And seriously, toys for boys and girls have become way more polarized over the past couple of decades (have you seen the new girls' Legos?) and gosh even toothpaste is 'gendered' now; girls get Barbie toothpaste and boys get something cool like airplanes

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  44. I agree that it's time to clearly separate and distinguish the concept of being homosexual from the idea of being transgender. I think the LGBT started with the "Pride" parades (which used to be Lesbian & Gay Liberation) and now the alphabet soup acronym LGBTQQI, etc, etc, has somehow become attached to everything gay. Being lesbian or gay is completely different from transgender.

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  45. "I'm talking about children and yet you still manage to bring into it the idea that crushes are somehow ubiquitous at such an early age!"

    1. They aren't ubiquitous and I don't see where that was claimed.

    "Is your mind so *gay* and myopic that you cannot imagine a child presenting some gender that aligns with some established norm BEFORE they are sexual?"

    2. I'm asexual and formerly trans-identified so I don't have to imagine, I know the score. There are still many, many other explanations for defying sex role other than 'innate gender'. 3. Im going to re-word it one last time: some kids who have same-sex crushes (not gay!!1!!1 take note!) may over identify with the opposite sex as a result of trying to fit their experience into the heterosexual model. This might account for
    the trends we see.

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  46. "I don't think young people are even aware that this ideology is utterly conservative"

    You know why? Because actual trans people are not telling anyone else who they are. Most trans people see gender as a spectrum and fully support everyone's right to express that- up to and including physical transition if deemed necessary and appropriate. It is completely taboo and oppressive in my, very large, queer community to suggest to *anyone* who or what they might be. You don't go around saying, "oh you dress like a _____, you must be a _____". Because we are surrounded by people who present in all types of ways and dress however they want. People fully support women's right to dress and behave and love how they want. Plenty of people consider themselves transgendered but don't feel physically incongruous. It's only in these paranoid, out-of-touch little forums that people feel like "genderists" are out to get them. YOU ARE THE CONSERVATIVES IN THIS DISCUSSION.
    Am I oppressing young people by presenting an example of a happily transitioned person? Even if I were, how is that even my responsibility? Should I ask that gay people make themselves scarce so that my child does not become exposed to *gay* as an acceptable lifestyle?

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  47. The author of this blog is mentally ill, and so are you conservative lesbians. Your cognitive dissonance is astounding. I'm truly embarrassed and ashamed that you people exist. Thank God no one cares for your marginalizing "opinions" that you somehow present as fact...haha. Embarrassing. Live your own lives...better yet GET ONE! Now there's an idea. Stop shaming butch lesbians this way. You people are the decay of the community.

    -30 year old butch dyke who supports all walks of life

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  48. @ anon april 18 9:02p

    AMEN !!!!

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  49. "The author of this blog is mentally ill, and so are you conservative lesbians."

    You ain't convincing no one with this nonsense -- disagreement with an ideology being presented as a 'mental illness' is something that an actual gay person would know not to mess with, given the history of gay people (who presented as disagreement with the heterosexual ideology, if you like), were so often presented as mentally and/or physically ill.

    This is just the ole 'not all gay people think the same way therefore you're an unimportant minority' line in a new disguise.

    Just shows that SOME people still think that being RIGHT depends on how many 'converts' you have, or that we'll all wither and DIE if someone points out that not everyone agrees with us.

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  50. P.S.

    Saying '...better yet GET ONE!' (i.e., get a life), displays your probable age straight off.

    Supporting all walks of life (even those with mutually contradictory ideologies) is a logical impossibility, although supporting someones RIGHT to have whatever belief system they choose isn't. And that's what is the issue here, not someones RIGHT to argue that gender is innate etc, but my right to DISAGREE with that ideology, and argue against it.

    And being disagreed with don't kill you (despite the attempted emotional manipulation we've all seen many times), so you trying to play the 'they all disagree with you' card won't work with me.

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  51. "And that's what is the issue here, not someones RIGHT to argue that gender is innate etc, but my right to DISAGREE with that ideology, and argue against it."

    This. We have a problem when people think disagreement is oppression and censorship is liberation. The hacking attempts on this blog are proof of that mentality.

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  52. I don't think common ground can be reached
    when one 'side' (mine, I suppose) thinks that transsexual ideology is a very conservative and limiting view, with people locking themselves into what is thought to be a regressive and simplistic view of what it means to be male or female
    and the other 'side' considers my beliefs conservative since it thinks I am trying to deny people their freedom (which I am not), and that even questioning their theories is akin to burning crosses in their yards, emblematic of some kind of 'hatred' or 'phobia'

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  53. "We have a problem when people think disagreement is oppression.."

    Yes, we're not saying that trans people shouldn't have the same civil rights as everyone else, or shouldn't be 'allowed to exist', or any of that nonsense.

    The problem isn't you, it's your belief system. Believe what you want, just don't expect me to agree with it.

    So, for instance, I think that a male transitioner (to use Dirts new terminology) shouldn't lose their job because of that, but if they DO, I'll object to them claiming that it was because of SEX discrimination (they sacked me cos I'm now a woman).

    So, just as I'd support someone who claimed that they were sacked because they were a christian (irrespective of anything they did or didn't do because of that belief), whilst at the same time thinking that their belief system is daft (being an atheist), so I'd support someone who has sacked for their 'innappropriate' gender presentation, whilst still remaining an atheist as regards innate gender.

    So out disagreement need not have ANY detrimental effect on the civil rights of trans people (unlike, say, rightwing objections).

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  54. I also do not think there is a solution. And while it may not be *your* goal to stop people from being able to transition, it certainly *is* Dirt's goal. She would prefer us to disappear, which won't happen. Also I think there is a willing part being played by some here to intentionally misrepresent some kind of giant, unified trans agenda. I see no evidence of any unified agenda amongst trans people themselves, other than perhaps believing that we all have the right to dignity, safety, and freedom to express our genders in what ever way we want-up to and including physical transition. Most of us see ourselves on a spectrum, like I said before. There is no unified trans theory. Check out the film "Against A Trans Narrative" if you are curious about the breadth of belief and experience amongst us. Every single trans person I know would fight for the same rights for gender-nonconforming females to embrace their female-ness, for butches, queens and everyone else. We do not all have the same story to tell or beliefs about our genders. We are not trying to shoehorn others into boxes or make them transition. We are against the idea that there is one single way to be trans or only two genders to fit into. It is testament only to your fear and paranoia that you would willingly portray us as only victims or unwitting perpetrators. Your readiness to judge all based on the comments of a few says more about you than it does about us. You would pit yourselves against us when we do not come looking for fights with you.

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  55. And as far as "hacking" goes, do you think an actual hacker uses Google to figure out how to hack something? LOL! It was probably one of these unfortunate 14 year olds whose picture was taken out of his YouTube account and would like to not have it on display to you people.

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  56. "You would pit yourselves against us when we do not come looking for fights with you."

    It's not about YOU, it's about the ideology of gender.

    " freedom to express our genders in what ever way we want"
    Except if no one believed in innate gender to start with, they're be nothing to express! You'd be left with some people who wanted elective plastic surgery to modify their bodies (people already do all sorts of stuff after all!), and people with body dysmorphia, but you'd stop having gender being used as an explanation, and SRS being touted as a 'solution'.

    Trans wouldn't always exist, if ideologies changed. Trans would stop existing if no one believed in gender, and what would be left, perhaps, if people with similar experiences, but a different interpretation of what those experiences meant and how best to address any problems caused by those experiences.

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  57. " We are not trying to shoehorn others into boxes or make them transition."

    I'm going to take this quote specifically, because this one struck a chord. Disregarding the rest of the comment, let me share a little bit of experience I viewed a la the online trans community.

    I don't recall the forum off the top of my head, I'm sure I could go and find it if I had to.

    There was a young person there, can't have been more than 17. And they were making posts of very obvious confusion and distress. That they were dressed in a manner society perceives as female, as is their natural born gender, and that they felt kinda good about it. They liked the way they looked in the dress they were wearing. And they asked for help.

    Any sensible person at this point, one would think, would say, you know, it's okay to feel that way, if it is causing you distress then I suggest you speak to your doctor or your therapist about it, since this person had already stated they were in the process of beginning their "transition". Sensible advice, seek a medical professional's help if it's causing you the distress you are expressing.

    Instead, I was horrified to read on and find others telling this person that it was normal, and that they wouldn't feel that way after they had started T, and not to worry too much about it, because it didn't change their gender identification.

    You personally might not be trying to shoehorn people. But you go looking, there is PLENTY of peer pressure in the transyouth online community. I experienced a LOT of it myself. Thankfully I had good friends who helped me find who I really am before I hit a needle or a surgeon's knife

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  58. I'm sorry BadDyke but you are sounding a little sad at this point. You cannot force your utopia into existence right now just because you want it to be that way. The body will always have its say, and I believe that the body itself is often responsible for what we consider "gendered" behavior. Much of what we think of as our "selves"- our impulses, drive, desires, and psychology comes from hormones themselves. You won't believe me because you haven't experienced it from both sides. But I have.
    Our hormones have, for whatever reason fair or unfair, a huge say in what we do and why we do it. They exist in our bodies for archaic reasons that are mostly outdated, but they are still there. You cannot wish them away, or separate our minds from our bodies completely. I believe social structures have been completely unjust and wrong about women's strengths. I think if we valued women's bodies and minds the way they should be valued the world would be a much better place. But that won't make gender disappear and it won't make transsexualism disappear.

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  59. but transsexuals DON'T have the hormones of the opposite sex until medical intervention, so how do they assume they're 'supposed' to have whatever effects they will later force into the mind and body?
    and why is it considered 'utopian' to have a world in which biological sex and gender are one and the same? it was always like that before 'queer theory' supplanted all other theories, or rather there WERE no gender 'theories' prior, just simple reality

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  60. Technically, we all have a mixture of all the hormones that are predominant in both sexes, but I'm sure you know that. I'm sure you've also seen examples of people who have much higher levels of one sex while presenting the genitals of another. I'm not talking about what we know of as "interesexed" either. I'm saying that I think there is a real physical spectrum already present in the world and that does effect people's behavior and possibly sexual preferences. I'm guessing that people who find the effects of cross-gender treatment intolerable will stop treatment. You've got to have a handle on how you want to present to the world. Personally, I don't believe in any of this, "I'm transitioning to male but I will never call myself a man" bullshit. That's just taking male privilege and turning up your nose at the responsibility it comes with. If you are passing as male, you are getting privilege.
    I'm not sure that there were no gender theories before there was queer theory. But there was a push to recognize the gifts of femaleness as separate from maleness. Now it seems some people on this list are trying to say that there is no difference. I'm not sure if that is unique to followers of this blog because many here might feel disconnected to their femaleness. I'm not sure where that comes from but it doesn't seem to come from reality. Whatever happened to celebrating the differences? Uplifting the unique strengths of females? We can do *that* AND not tell people who they are, what they must or musn't do with their bodies. You don't have to eliminate US to be who YOU are.

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  61. What does that mean to 'feel disconected to femaleness?'
    I believe that only Transists think that people are supposed to have this constant awareness of their 'gender' and how right or wrong it is.

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  62. and nobody's trying to 'eliminate' you

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  63. "Now it seems some people on this list are trying to say that there is no difference"

    WhatwhatWHAT?! Who said there was no difference? Also, I agree that sex hormones have an influence on behaviour but science finds that the link is a complex one which results in very loose trends rather than two distinct behaviour models.

    "I'm not sure if that is unique to followers of this blog because many here might feel disconnected to their femaleness."

    How is one supposed to feel 'connected' to their femaleness apart from observing their biological reality?

    "Whatever happened to celebrating the differences? Uplifting the unique strengths of females?"

    Like recognising that female is a reproductive sex and
    that pregnancy and childbirth are unique female experiences?

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  64. A loose trend is enough for me to see that men start wars. If we were smart, females would govern. I think there is more to a female biological makeup than capacity for childbirth. Not trying to gain a foothold so I can oppress females, just observing that co-operation was an archaic necessity for women in communities and that skill would serve the larger world community better than man's predilection towards dominance by force.

    Are you quite sure that there are no women or men who feel connected to their femaleness or maleness? Even if that were true and you could once-and-for-all debunk the whole trans "ideology" (which I don't think exists in the hegemonic way you believe), do you think that will cause people to stop wanting the physical characteristics of the sex they identify with? You could potentially solve this "problem" for yourself, but the effects of hormones are powerful and quite satisfying for many.... How can you debunk something like that?

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  65. " ...do you think that will cause people to stop wanting the physical characteristics of the sex they identify with?"

    Yes and no. I think people would stop 'identifying' with a physical sex. But no, it wouldn't end body dysphoria.

    Im not trying to 'debunk' the fact that drugs are powerful. I abused drugs for a while and believe me, the effects of those drugs were very satisfying. Its two different things saying "hormones have no effect on the brain" ("drugs dont make you FEEL like you're escaping, short term") and "hormones effect people very much but we ought to stop promoting them as 'sex change drugs' for people who want to escape their biological sex, because thats not possible." ("We should not advocate drug abuse for people who want to escape reality.")

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  66. The only thing this blog works to "eliminate" is misogyny and the structures perpetuating it.

    dirt

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  67. Um, I'm not trying to escape from reality, like I said. The reality is that hormones don't affect your brain in any way like actual drugs do. Why would you even claim that in your argument? Are you currently high on estrogen? I never felt high on estrogen nor do I feel high on testosterone. I don't find myself craving testosterone, using more than I need, stealing from people to get my hormones, or neglecting my responsibilities, my friends, or my family in order to maintain my testosterone levels. The reality is that testosterone has given me many things I want and a few things I don't want, the same way that estrogen did, except in reverse proportions. I don't understand what the personal stake is in this of anyone who is not transsexual. Save *yourselves*!

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  68. "The reality is that hormones don't affect your brain in any way like actual drugs do. Why would you even claim that in your argument?"

    A drug is any substance that, when absorbed into the body, alters normal bodily function. I didn't invent that, its science.

    Thats why theres a difference between testosterone/estrogen levels which are regulated by their brain, i.e. Normal bodily function, and those that are introduced artificially. Hey, I'm not saying drugs are all bad and should be banned. I'm saying lets be honest about them being drugs and not the magic essence of manhood. Lets be honest that people don't change sex. Lets be honest about why people want the illusion of changing sex. Perhaps you are quite grounded in reality but there were two f2t suicides when I was part of the community, both because they hadn't escaped their sex through transition. Does that bother you?

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  69. Suicide of any kind bothers me. I'm wondering how you can be sure of their reasons and how you can be sure these people would not have committed suicide if they had not transitioned. Seems like far too many vectors could be involved to establish direct causality. Untreated depression, lack of support, other mental illness, or just not being able to deal with being trans could all be considered. After all, just because you don't transition doesn't mean you aren't trans. Furthermore, some people will never pass for various reasons and I think that would fucking blow. From my perspective , testosterone IS kinda the magical source of male essence, whatever that's worth to you. I was pretty well aware of the physical implications. Considering that I was feeling fairly suicidal with the guilt and shame of *wanting to* transition, I feel much better now. The only thing worse than having that desire and having the reality meet not all your expectations would have been continuing to stew in self- hate and self-rejection, thereby getting nothing that I wanted. I'm always careful to be painfully honest with ftm's that I mentor. You must always be careful to pay attention to your whole life- not just your gender...

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  70. Trans is a medical fabrication originally utilized created to eradicate homosexuality.

    dirt

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  71. "testosterone IS kinda the magical source of male essence, whatever that's worth to you"

    Your spiritual beliefs are just that. If they put you in denial about reality - uh oh! for yourself and the young transitioners who look up to you. T is produced in the bodies of both sexes. It only has to do with maleness (testicles, sperm cells, penis, prostate) in conjunction with the Y chromosome - after all, grown women have a higher T level than little boys.

    Reducing reproductive sex to secondary sexual characteristics which can be purchased as an 'essence' is a LIE. Those who believe the lies eventually find themselves in the same predicament as before, but often poor, unhealthy, stigmatised for looking like an SRS case... hence the suicides. The fact that disallusionment played a part even, is enough to be
    concerned about peddling pseudo-science and lies.

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  72. There's not much more to discuss between us, though I respect your position. I believe all religion is a lie, personally. Yet millions of people have been murdered in the name of religion. Such an incredible outrage for what are essentially *cult members* to have affected the lives of innocent people in this way for thousands of years. Such an incredible injustice, yet you choose to worry about a few people you consider to be "women" who change their bodies and believe themselves to be male. Statistically, I've seen almost no evidence of rampant suicides or even regrets about having transitioned. You expect me to kill myself over a frickin' prostate when I have almost *all* of the physical characteristics I wanted but never believed I could have? Not to mention support from friends, family, partner, community, and the legal system. I would never proselytize to young transmen-they come to me. So I don't know, I tend to think that people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. If you believe that you corner the market in "reality", then I hope that is satisfying and meaningful to you.

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  73. Anon, why end racism when famine? Why famine when genocide?

    If you believe that existentialist shite why are you spending YOUR time telling people not to waste THEIR time on 'unworthy' causes?!?

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  74. ".....yet you choose to worry about a few people you consider to be "women" who change their bodies and believe themselves to be male."

    It's NOT about you, sorry to disappoint you, it's about the ideas about gender that the trans cult espouses, that harm ALL women (whoops, over 50% of the human rave there, so hardly a few people now is it?).

    I know WHY people keep trying to present this as nasty feminists etc poking into the private lives of other people, but that isn't it at all. It's the WHY behind it that matters, and trans spreading means something, because it tells us about how these damaging ideas about gender are spreading.

    "I tend to think that people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be" Well, whoopee and bully for you, try telling THAT to third-world women stuck with marriage at an early age, and year after year of pregnancies.

    It ain't your SEX that's the problem, dear, and how MEN treat you based on that, you just have to make up your mind to be happy (so it's all YOUR fault).

    Individualistic, narcissistic, and reactionary, but that's the trans mind set for yah!

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  75. Like I said already MNDR, we have nothing more to say to each other. Except, are you working to combat racism and famine?

    You'll pardon me if I take it personally when a highly suspect group of "women" tries to assert that myself and so many friends don't *exist* because they feel threatened by the "ideas" my existence brings up for them. I see so many things on this list that I used to say to myself to self-soothe. I find watching the process fascinating...

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    Replies
    1. i find this 'self-soothe' comment most interesting

      Delete
    2. i think she's implying that we're actually men

      Delete
  76. Just because a trend is disturbing it doesn't mean it's 'threatening'- but that's part and parcel of Transism belief, that everyone else is just scared.

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  77. Ha! I'm not sure what you are, but I do know one thing: people who claim to know what make a person transition are only revealing why *they* would transition.

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  78. What I know about what makes people want to transition I have learned from people who try to transition or think they have transitioned.

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  79. "You'll pardon me if I take it personally when a highly suspect group of "women" tries to assert that myself and so many friends don't *exist* because they feel threatened by the "ideas" my existence brings up for them."

    Before anyone has a go at anon for this - when you start coming down off the trans high, the idea of not existing strikes the fear of god into you. I dont mean physically not existing, I mean its hard to imagine what will be left of you without a grounding identity, if not an empty shell.

    Anon, I know you have nothing more to say but if you change your mind theres no hard feelings on my part.

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  80. Hmmmm. Cricket......cricket. I've been waiting but no one has wanted to have a go at me for my comment yet MNDR.

    Like i said, I don't think I experienced a trans high. If anything, I felt I lost my "grounding identity" years ago when I realized I was trans and that sadly it would potentially put me at odds with my "community" at the time. And it did, because people had really poor boundaries. But I had to follow my own path. When you go along assuming that being a ____ or a ____ or a _____ is enough to make up your identity, that's when you are really left with an empty shell when something brings that into question. That's the existential despair that I think is freaking people out so much about the trans thing. If other people who they assume are "just like them" are actually identifying differently and sometimes looking different, then where does that leave everything them? Underdeveloped? In denial? A very inconvenient thing to feel forced into addressing! If you can't really know who you are in the face of that, you are fucked.

    Now I know my identity is made up of other things like the art I make, who I love and spend time with, who I am with my friends, and all kinds of things that make me human besides my gender. Gender is such an infinitesimally small part of the equation. But when something feels really wrong, sometimes it needs to be addressed.

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  81. Addressed yes, but there is never a need to "change" it. Only a thinking there is a need based on a strict indoctrination and adherence to the GSJ.

    dirt

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  82. Thanks Dirt. Says you, though. I remain convinced that all the mental gymnastics/social re-conditioning in the world wouldn't make me wish for my breasts back. or to have less muscle mass, hair, or a higher voice. In fact the only thing I miss is that beautiful smooth estrogen-supported skin. I guess I still get to have it in some ways because my wife has such beautiful skin.

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  83. No, says you with your comments. Happy female transitioners would not waste there time here. Clearly you arent happy and are looking for help with your mistakes.

    dirt

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