Change Your World-NOT your Body

Friday, April 27, 2012

Trans Drugging and Mutilation is NOT a Cure for Dysphoria!

From a popular female transitioner list:
First let me say, good for this doctor for having the medical ethics not to wily-nilly dole out dangerous drugs to the mentally distressed. Clearly this doctor is familiar with WPATH's guidelines:
This doctor may also take issue with the contradictory message set forth by WPATH that utilizes treating dysphoric patients with drugs that have no long term studies:
and drugs which are clearly harmful:
And she along with ALL medical professionals should take issue with the WPATH's conflicting brutalizing treatment of dysphoria when these medical professionals swore to uphold the elemental maxim primum nil nocere-FIRST DO NO HARM! 

Drugging and permanently mutilating a healthy body IS doing HARM! Especially when there is ZERO proof that that harm is a cure-all for the dysphoria its claimed to be treating!


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48 comments:

  1. This post is almost laughable because you are trying to argue with people who dwarf you intellectually to the point that it isn't even worth entertaining.

    You're pathetic.

    Oh, and what safe space (that you clearly do not belong in) did you rob these screen shots from, child?

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  2. Whats laughable is you hanging on to my every word with every post.

    dirt

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  3. No, youre Pathetic, Anon 9:00. Anyway, I read "mexico"? My older brother and some of his asshole friends talked getting illegal anabolic gear once. How many of these poor girls have gone that route? I dont wanna know. Locked up is the last thing these girls need. And homemade might equal dead. Oh, the bit about a fetus. Reminder, I saw whats her name in the paper with her divorce. Those poor kids. Who knows what might be wrong with them and we wont find out for years if ever. They could have been a happy lesbian family but now theyre just a media circus show thats over. When is this shit gonna stop.

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  4. Well, this IS about the 'FTM', of which there are no such studies. All you've got is the harms of androgen's on women and girls from eastern, Asian and other athletic doping programs. Female bodybuilders don't count, as soon as soft tissue injuries add up they retire. We do know however that even male athletes get fucked up from steroids. Some of them wont use straight T either because they think it's outdated, dangerous and prefer exotic stacks. So, yeah, FTM. Laugh now shithead.

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  5. Male bodybuilders are getting fucked up because they already have enough T naturally but are increasing it exponentially, to the point that it aromatizes over to estrogen. Shrinks their balls, gives them tits, and causes them to emote in the locker room. Embarrassing!

    FTM's have only the testosterone levels of "biological" men if they use a normal dose.

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  6. "it aromatizes over to estrogen"...

    and this doesn't happen to girls? Wrong. Check your goddamn facts.

    To properly use androgen's there are at least 'three' things you need to use. You obviously do not know what two of them are. When you learn some basics get back to me. This does not include being monitored regularly by an informed, capable physician. Being a biological female you would also need to see a gynecologist regularly. No one in the medical industry related to these matters would disagree with those points. But you wouldn't because it conflicts with your mental "identity". And this is NOT dangerous in any way you would attempt to argue? These are just the basics I would add. And "male" nothing. Biological males have nothing to do with this discussion. Focus. And learn some facts please. And when I say please I mean I'm begging you.

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  7. "FTM's have only the testosterone levels of "biological" men if they use a normal dose."

    Yes, but females are NOT biological men. They don't have the number of testosterone receptors that men have. A normal amount of testosterone for a male body is abnormal and dangerous for a female body. Hence the liver damage, cancer, psychosis, etc. These are potent, dangerous drugs--yet another reason that gender is not a dress-up game.

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  8. Ok... maybe I'm being too simple here... but tell me anon, 3:20 PM, If one really is attempting to transition from the female sex, not gender but sex, to the male sex because they are were born with the wrong equipment. Which I pray is the case if one is actually taking testosterone and getting surgery. Why on Gods Green Earth would one need to see a gyno?

    I mean wouldn't the removal of ALL those pesky primary female sexual characteristics be right there tops on the need to do list? I mean last time I looked. Men were men because they had a phallus and testicles. Men did not have a vagina, uterus or ovaries... But men do have breasts and it is not that uncommon for men to have gynecomastia. So why that surgery and not the other?

    On the other hand. if one is not actually transitioning to male but acting out against the socially proscribed female gender roles. Then why are you taking testosterone and getting your breasts removed?

    BTW, this really is not baiting... it is a serious question! Because I really am confused how one could claim to be male and yet not think they need male genitalia! Hello! EVERY man who ever visited my bed would have rather died than to part with "his precious" but to all the trans-men It seems that a penis and testicles are just not that important?

    Huh?

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  9. What if the only reason to transition for FTM is to gain male privilage? What if the sole reason for every MTF transition was a sexual deviancy?

    Would those motives give the rest of us the right to say 'no, you may not transition'?

    At what point does the body of the individual become the property of society?
    How do we draw the line?

    Ever see the lizard man? Google him if you haven't, he is hideous and beyond wierd.
    What he has done to his body is so far beyond what most people would consider normal and sane that most of us might question his sanity. Yet there is no cry from the rest of us to bann or regulate body modification.

    There is no argument we can pose that trumps the right of the individule to choose for themselves.

    Does transition harm our society?
    Maybe. But it is an almost impossible thing to quantify.
    Our society is a patriarchy and the male mind only deals in obvious absolutes. The transitioner goes to the doctor with a pocket full of money and they start whining. The doctor has been trained that these people have an issue that hormones and surgery can fix. The doctor provides hormones and surgery and gets a double pay off. The paitient gives money and the whining has stoped because the transsexual is no longer demanding their surgery. The surgery has been preformed and thats the end of it. From the doctors point of view it is mission acomplished with a good prognosis.
    When we start claiming that there are social ramifications and long term damage to society from these transsexuals but provide no proof on paper it is easy to dismiss these alegations. After all the doctor is 'curing' transsexuals from his point of view. Doctors and pychiatrist types do not live in the world we do. They are very compartmentalised in many ways.

    This field needs some peer reviewed study to nail any actual proofs. Hypothisis can only go so far.

    Anyways, I am just rambleing it seems.

    Complicated topic with many angles to consider.

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  10. What if the only reason to transition for FTM is to gain male privilage? What if the sole reason for every MTF transition was a sexual deviancy?

    Would those motives give the rest of us the right to say 'no, you may not transition'?

    At what point does the body of the individual become the property of society?
    How do we draw the line?

    Ever see the lizard man? Google him if you haven't, he is hideous and beyond wierd.
    What he has done to his body is so far beyond what most people would consider normal and sane that most of us might question his sanity. Yet there is no cry from the rest of us to bann or regulate body modification.

    There is no argument we can pose that trumps the right of the individule to choose for themselves.

    Does transition harm our society?
    Maybe. But it is an almost impossible thing to quantify.
    Our society is a patriarchy and the male mind only deals in obvious absolutes. The transitioner goes to the doctor with a pocket full of money and they start whining. The doctor has been trained that these people have an issue that hormones and surgery can fix. The doctor provides hormones and surgery and gets a double pay off. The paitient gives money and the whining has stoped because the transsexual is no longer demanding their surgery. The surgery has been preformed and thats the end of it. From the doctors point of view it is mission acomplished with a good prognosis.
    When we start claiming that there are social ramifications and long term damage to society from these transsexuals but provide no proof on paper it is easy to dismiss these alegations. After all the doctor is 'curing' transsexuals from his point of view. Doctors and pychiatrist types do not live in the world we do. They are very compartmentalised in many ways.

    This field needs some peer reviewed study to nail any actual proofs. Hypothisis can only go so far.

    Anyways, I am just rambleing it seems.

    Complicated topic with many angles to consider.

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  11. @dirt you're a cunt, always will be.

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  12. "On the other hand. if one is not actually transitioning to male but acting out against the socially proscribed female gender roles. Then why are you taking testosterone and getting your breasts removed?"

    This is precisely why Dirt and these other skeptics are wrong about why we transition. They can only project and they end up revealing why *they* would transition. Pissed off about power disparity? Transition won't solve that. Anyone who has seen both sides would tell you that presenting as *either* sex comes with a pile of social garbage. Some people take hormones and have surgery selectively in order to more closely match something they feel like. I don't really understand that myself....because I'm not them.

    As far as dick goes, I want one. Badly. It's can be taboo to talk about in some trans circles (but a hell of alot less than talking admitting it in lesbian circles HA!) for so many reasons. I find that people in general don't like to admit they want things which they can never, ever, have. It's just too useless. Lower surgeries are very, very, very expensive and have only sub-par results. But man, who wouldn't want to actually be inside the person they love? I don't understand it. Which brings me to the last sticking point. Many of us have had significant growth and can actually penetrate our partners with a *very* sensate enlarged clitoris. Some types of lower surgery puts all those nerve endings at risk....I don't want to risk that. As far as a hysto goes, if you have the 25,000 to lend me, I'm there in two shakes, babe.

    P.S. I always used to wonder, "hey, how come none of these lesbians will just fucking admit they want to have a dick?"

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  13. Anonymous @ 9:20 PM, I think you may be the one projecting here. I am lesbian and I have never wanted a penis. I used to be a huge tomboy when I was a young girl, but even then, the idea of having a penis never appealed to me. It was never a concern.

    At some point you have to realize that not all lesbians are the same, that not all lesbians think/act like you. Maybe you identified as lesbian once and now you think that because you wanted a dick while you were identifying as a lesbian, all lesbians must want dicks as well. I can tell you this is not so. Not everyone is like you. Not everyone has huge gender issues like you. But I give you my sympathies - I'm sorry that you will never have a penis. Learn to appreciate your vagina, I guess?

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  14. Um, that was my point. I was projecting. Now I know who I am. If people on this list could psychologically differentiate better, they would know who they are too, and thereby be able to access some humility. Thanks for the nice sentiments, though! That's sweet.

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  15. Anonymous - The fact is, you will never have a penis. You are not biologically a man and will never be one. Why do you try so desperately to imitate something that you are not?

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  16. What's desperate is your need to convince me of something I already know and have accepted! Jesus! Is there something wrong with your cognition?

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  17. Anon@7:16pm, you have a cunt and always will.

    dirt

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  18. "But man, who wouldn't want to actually be inside the person they love?"
    Sure, dicks are all about love!

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  19. Gender dysphoria may have a basis in biology, however, it cannot be cured through SRS.
    I was born with a testosterone-flooded brain with all of the symptoms--I'm a lesbian, left-handed, I stuttered, and have some color-blindness. I also have the high-testosterone hand, with the index finger being shorter than the third finger.
    It was hard living in a female body, especially a very feminine figure--the attention I received was shocking and embarrassing. So I do understand all of the issues that these girls face. It can be hellish.
    But here's the problem: there is no fix for this, and you must learn to live with it. But it makes us special, and I mean that in a good way. It's hot! It has taken me a lifetime to come to terms with my body, and I still struggle, God knows, but I now love how I am. You can get to that place, there is hope for us all.
    I believe that plastics in the environment are wreaking havoc on our bodies and brains, and are changing us hormonally. I think there is plenty of evidence for that. So expect more men and women to share these feelings.
    Unfortunately, the medical establishment cannot really change us and cannot help us, because frankly, we are too complicated for them. Our brains are treasures, and our bodies are delicate works of art. We must respect ourselves enough to allow ourselves to live with as much dignity and respect as anyone else in society.
    Let's fight for those rights!

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  20. "I was born with a testosterone-flooded brain with all of the symptoms--I'm a lesbian, left-handed, I stuttered, and have some color-blindness. I also have the high-testosterone hand, with the index finger being shorter than the third finger."

    Except reading the literature:
    "A fundamental
    problem with regard to these speculations is that so far there is
    no evidence of prenatal/perinatal/postnatal hormonal disturbance
    in transsexuals."

    "The least one can say is
    that the 2D:4D ratio is not a robust marker of prenatal androgen
    exposure."

    And this:
    "So
    while the histories of persons with a abnormal sexual
    differentiation undeniably point to an effect of androgens,
    there are codeterminants of gender identity and sexual orientation
    with the power of overriding effects of androgens on the
    brains (male transsexuals/homosexuals) or making androgen
    effects on the brain redundant (female transsexuals/homosexuals).
    These factors elude us presently and leave us puzzled
    about phenomena as transsexualism and homosexuality."

    Not as simple as -- I must have had a whole load of T flowing through my brain. Scientists tried looking for the OBVIOUS things way back when, and couldn't find it.

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  21. "Unfortunately, the medical establishment cannot really change us and cannot help us, because frankly, we are too complicated for them."

    Bravo to this and that entire beautiful post!

    From a different Anon:

    "At what point does the body of the individual become the property of society?
    How do we draw the line?"

    It is not for us to draw lines for others, especially when they're not harming others. it is up to individuals to decide whether and how much they want to give their bodies and trust to science/medicine. I personally don't trust this establishment and am glad there are strong voices speaking up against its harms and twisted (and limited) thinking of Life. Hopefully we all do our homework before going in for *any* medical intervention. I hate that this is so, because we *should* live in a culture where medicine and medicine people do no harm and help everyone. But that is not the case so we have to be super vigilant and critical. and help others be so too.

    I am loving this blog and am learning so much from hearing others' perspectives. The more I hear here the less I realize know re. sex/gender, and the more I appreciate the magical and infinite diversity among ALL of us beautiful crazy bastards!

    Sincerely & Respectfully,
    NJD

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  22. "But here's the problem: there is no fix for this, and you must learn to live with it. But it makes us special"

    Although I love the tone of your post, I cannot agree completely and I think we must be able to accept truths where they are if we want to have any trust. There is no fix for the human condition, I'd agree. But unless you have had SRS and then found it not to "fix" you, I cannot accept your authority on the matter. There is no fix for human dissatisfaction in a society that bases people's worth on their thinness, beauty, richness etc. There is definitely, absolutely a fix for having breasts you do not want them, or for having the world read you as female if you can't stand that. I think people's instinct is to react negatively and judge transsexuals, to project. It's natural. But thinking and declaring in absolutes is doing harm to us all, because very few absolutes hold up. And they are a tool of mentally laziness for people who are exasperated by the complexity of the world. Project, and dismiss, because it's easier than having humility and accepting that someone might be different than you and *not* fucked up.

    If a person can accept their birth sex but thrives post-transition, how is that not some form of fix for a problem, whether *you* believe that problem is real or not? If a person does go through transition, do you actually think that this precludes them from being able to undergo the very human process of self-acceptance? Seems unfair. Actually it seem like the exact definition of dehumanization. Our transition might represent the very picture of self-rejection to you, but your view of us in *no* way allows us our full humanity, our life processes, the very breadth of our humanity outside of gender. This really, really fucking bugs me. I love your message of self-acceptance. It's just that I completely see it as available to all of us and not pivoting on a relatively small aspect of being human such as gender. Peace.

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  23. Dirt you are the physical manifestation of the Fundamental Attribution Error.

    Congratulations.

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  24. @ 4:56 PM,
    You said

    "There is definitely, absolutely a fix for having breasts you do not want them, or for having the world read you as female if you can't stand that."

    Isn't that exactly the point Dirt is making here? That the issue of "trans" is far far more about hating all that is female than needing to be male? I've come to think it is and I think that it may be your point as well! Because, you preface that by saying

    "There is no fix for human dissatisfaction in a society that bases people's worth on their thinness, beauty, richness etc."

    Bingo!

    I fell asleep on the sofa last night and woke during the intro of "Mad Men" In my barely awake state I sat there wondering how it is that we blithely accept woman as an object for the only "true" humans, the men, to lust for!

    So as a straight woman, do I get why young girls who are revolted at this idea would rebel into "trans?" Of course I do! But do I accept their hatred for all things female as acceptable?

    No! If anything, it is the exact same misogyny, only reversed! A weirdly modified Stockholm syndrome if you would.

    And I will give you that there may be transsexuals out there. Folk whom must transition because they truly think themselves the wrong sex, but so far they seem to be exceedingly rare and not to be found in the legions of feminine self haters

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  25. Yes! I do see your point exactly!
    Thanks for "giving" me that there may be transsexuals out there. I'll give you that there may be actual gay people out there, in return. But I see so many gay people who are mistaking other trouble for actual attraction to the same sex. You can't just be a four-year lesbian because you are angry at men. You can't just sleep with women because you think they are better/smarter/kinder than men. You yourself probably know those things are not true, Miz. None of those things are true and it won't keep you gay! This is bad for the gay community, because it causes attrition to the straight side later in life, or causes transition later in life (which holds the gay community tied to us transsexuals in the eye of the public). You can't be gay because men have hurt you, because you don't want to be ogled, because it's more egalitarian. None of those things are actually true about being gay and you are doing a disservice to actual gay people. You don't have to exalt something to be part of it, but you can't make up being a part of it either.

    Forgive my partially flippant digression, Miz. The point is, people take it upon them to reinvent other people's wheels, as it were, when something feels wrong to them. Exactly the way men look at lesbians, assess them for their usefulness to *men*, and then try to think of ways to explain their errant and wayward lesbian history. Men look at lesbians as something to be fixed because straight is the rule, gay is the exceedingly rare exception. Truthfully, without community support and newer social norms, we would have so much fewer actual gay people because all opportunists wouldn't have the balls. "So what?" you might say. "If they act gay, they are gay. What's the problem? Trying to redefine them based on anyone else's expectations or needs is pure homophobia. The very act of encountering someone and deciding for yourself what it is they need fixed, what they have got wrong about who they are, how their deviation from your norm is due to some negative factor *you* can explain is a fucked up activity. And that's exactly what people on this list are doing to transpeople. You need us to identify, feel and look different for your *own* purposes, not ours. At least admit that. It's a null sum argument, because there is nothing wrong with us *as we are now*. And *now*, And *now*......

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  26. But transsexuals REQUIRE 'fixing,' 2:30, or so they think. I don't think anybody needs to be fixed to match any standard.

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  27. Correction: you *do* think we need fixing to match your standards. You want us to think the way you think.

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  28. @ anon 4:56PM/2:30PM,

    I'm sorry but arguing gay with me is kinda academic as I'm a straight woman but from what I think I am hearing. Your being trans is wholly dependent upon my recognition? As I read that, it means if I see a man who "feels" female in women's space I am suppose to act as if I do not have eyes or ears or any working concept of what is a penis. Rather I am suppose to act as if this were really a woman in front of me despite everything about this person screaming male? Same if I see a woman in that same space who "feels" male. I am suppose to act as if this were a man despite the fact that we are meeting in women's space and everything about this person from the broad hips to the small hands and high voice says this is a female?

    I do get transsexual, but if one really is transsexual, wouldn't it be incumbent upon the person to actually transition? I mean isn't "being" the other sex the driving force here? Why then is all the language that is used about gender? Why does it seem that most of the FtM crowd hang round in the lesbian world? Why do you insist on using the women's loo? Why keep the reproductive organs when they are the source of all your pain? Why the resistance to getting phallioplasty? To me it would seem that if you are indeed transsexual then there would be nothing on this earth that could or would stand in your way when there is a "cure" to be had! It's like the argument about the cost... that is a total red herring! I work in logistics. If you really want this then get thee to trucking school! If you live in the truck you could easily have the money for everything inside of 18 months and I cannot think of a more "masculine" profession!

    But you're not going to do that are you? This isn't about sex, it's about gender. It is about social roles and not being seen as female. It is about getting a little of that Male Privilege but not too much? So back to my statement, I get how one could be transsexual but it still seems they are VERY rare!

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  29. "None of those things are actually true about being gay and you are doing a disservice to actual gay people. You don't have to exalt something to be part of it, but you can't make up being a part of it either. "

    Whoops! Biological essentialism writ large here!

    I DON'T believe in gay genes, or even born gay. I see no reason at all why someone can't BE gay because they ACT gay. I don't mean act here in the 'not real' sense, but to emphasize that I don't think there is any definition of BEING gay other than DOING gay, as it were.

    So, someone might sleep with women because they're 'born gay' (genes), or because of a combination of innate tendency, upbringing and socialisation and life experience -- I DON'T CARE.

    "The very act of encountering someone and deciding for yourself what it is they need fixed, what they have got wrong about who they are, how their deviation from your norm is due to some negative factor *you* can explain is a fucked up activity." no its NOT, and in fact it's totally fucked-up NOT to do that. What you should do is your choice, but what your experience MEANS in a wider context is for us all to worry about. Your experience is yours, but your interpretation of your experience is another matter. You keep reducing it to an individualist viewpoint (I'm an island, what I do is nobody elses business), whereas I say that WHY you do what you decide to do, and why others decide to do the same (or not) is everyones business. Especially when the reasoning behind transition and 'innate gender' harms all women, not just those people who NEED to believe in it.

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  30. "you *do* think we need fixing to match your standards. You want us to think the way you think."

    Nope, BELIEVE what you want, IDENTIFY as whatever the hell you want, just don't expect the rest of us to be forced into agreeing with you on that.

    Disagreeing with someone is not saying you need fixing, just that (O horror of horrors, obviously) I think you're wrong.

    So, a biological female, for example, that states that they are male AND that they are a man, I'll disagree with -- in effect, we're disagreeing about what it is to be female/male AND what it is to be a man or a woman. Deal with it, without screaming homophobia at every whisper of dissent...........

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  31. Isn't SRS 'fixing?' (and in some ways, just like we do to our pets!)

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  32. "Deal with it, without screaming homophobia at every whisper of dissent..........."

    Whoops! Should have been transphobia.

    The 'disagreement' here is the cult of identity, versus fact-based labels.

    So, 'lesbian' I use as a label based on fact (biology = female), and actions (emotionally and sexually attracted to women etc).

    'Feeling' like a lesbian doesn't cut the mustard.

    The PROBLEM is when the patriarchy tries to DEFINE women in terms of what they SHOULD be doing (sex/gender roles) having previously classified us in terms of biological sex. They are trying to switch labelling tactics from biological facts (which no one sensible argues about), to actions.

    Which then leads to women who don't do 'woman' right being censured, AND leads to the mistaken belief that a biological male can 'do' woman as well -- reverse the patriarchal arrow on that one last, and you end up with biological males claiming they ARE women, and biological females claiming they ARE men, because you just need to make the small shift from acting like (roles is BAD), to wanting to act like/think like, to internally being (innate gender).

    But it all starts with the patriarchy's biological essentialism, that BECAUSE we are female, we are SUPPOSED to think and act in certain ways and not others.

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  33. Okay BadDyke, I've heard so much of your spiel, which remains relatively static, that I don't need to hear five more posts from you. Here's the rub. If you actually just wanted to the right to not accept us as what we say we are, POOF! You've got it! Such a small thing to ask for. You *also* can think and believe whatever you want. I can't control that! I've always known that most people would not accept me as a man if they knew my history. Without knowing my history, there's *never* any question of my sex, but that's beside the point. If I am going to have relationships of any emotional relevance, people are going to know my history and I want them to. So, you are free to not accept any of us as men, women, whatever.

    The other side of that double-edged sword is that many, many people will never accept that women have the same capabilities as men. No matter what you tell them, they are going to believe what they believe, and whats more, they are going to have those beliefs reinforced by what they see. Forever. And ever. There are *overwhelming* trends that support their ideas! Major, statistically reinforced trends that would hold up without biased research.
    I personally don't observe that women, IN GENERAL, are physically as strong or fast as men, wired for focusing on *one* task to the exclusion of other tasks, wired for hard-core analytical left-brain thinking or rational thought, on and on. WAIT....WHAT? Did I just really say that, that *MUST* be the reason I transitioned. Because I hate women and think they are stupid. Nope. It's not. In fact, I never thought those things were true before I transitioned. I just think women are *generally* better at integrating emotional intuition into things, knowing what's best for a child, a family, a community. Healing, nurturing, multi-tasking. Without those things, we would all cry, and then die. In general, I think men are best utilized for short-run, intense, results-based tasks. I believe women should be the majority of all governments. Obviously men can't control their petty, controlling, combative, prideful instincts and they have nearly destroyed this earth while in power.
    Do my ideas constitute hatred? Not in the slightest. I think those talents and behaviors are neither good or bad, they are just over-valued or undervalued. I think they are linked to sex hormones. What's more, I will never, ever change these ideas because I came to them through my experience. I think perhaps feminism has morphed into fighting for the rights for a dyke to work a construction job. Is that *real freedom*, even for her? I can tell you that construction jobs SUCK, for the most part and nobody's talents are best utilized there in general. Instead of getting humanity to value what so many, many women do, are good at, that men cannot do well, we have turned the conversation in to how women are no different than men. WRONG ANSWER! And, I don't think that strategy will work. The answer lies in fully embracing the power of women, and that includes what they are *already* doing well. Do I care if the dyke gets the construction job? Nope, I don't give a fuck. Are you an exceptional women bad Dyke? Bully for you! Run with that!

    While you sit on this forum all day whining about what the patriarchy thinks you can and cannot do, targeting *transsexualism* as some kind of direct threat to your freedom, other women are just going ahead and doing their thing. The problem is you. The sticking point is you. Call me a lady all day if you want, it won't change my life at all. You won't change my mind either, and you must accept that.

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  34. "Your being trans is wholly dependent upon my recognition?"

    I'm not sure where you read that. I didn't write it.
    My being trans is wholly incontrovertible. Does not require anything from you.

    Anyhoo, you are significantly less charming but more ill-informed than you were yesterday. Most transmen would not be caught dead in a lesbian-*ONLY* space. Who does that? For that matter, what are *you* doing in lesbian-only spaces? Or are you just reading about this phenom from lesbians who are inclined to judge and reject us anyway. If that's the case, can I recommend some other sources?

    How many transmen have you seen in the women's bathroom? I'd probably be beaten and arrested if I went in the women's bathroom. I can't even get read as trans by other trans men.

    So your other point seemed to be "Just go make tons of money and get a dick already, then maybe I'll see you as a man." Was that intentionally obtuse? Will having a phallo make me man in your eyes if nothing else has? Should it matter? We won't be sleeping together, so I won't be having the chance to be measured up against all your dicked-and-balled real men. For that matter, I've had plenty of my own. I know what the difference is.

    For the record, I do want lower surgery but I have a brain that's capable of more interesting occupations than driving a truck. I prefer to strategize and balance the other needs in my life, like not being away from my partner for 18 months. That's besides the point.

    And finally, this: "It is about getting a little of that Male Privilege but not too much?" I think I know who you are talking about but that ain't me, Miz. I'll be the first to tell you that if you are passing as male, you are getting male privilege. It's instant and you cannot give it back. And it, at this time in history, comes with alot of social bullshit and alot of responsibility. Shirking those responsibilities, or begging out because "I'm trans, so I'm marginalized" is not my fucking style. At all. And I have very little respect for people who choose to access *everything* they want because they are "neither" gender. Choose to look however you want, but at least have the decency to recognize that there will be consequences.

    So I don't know which whiny group of overprivileged, under-wise, YouTube trans teens you have formed your opinions of all of us upon, but you'd do well to acknowledge that a youthful, impertinent *version* of a type does not constitute the whole type. You are smart enough to know that.

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  35. Trans is totally dependent on a GID diagnosis accompanied by drugs and mutilative surgeries performed by the male medical machine.

    dirt

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  36. I don't think that BadDyke is saying that trans is dependent on *her* recognition exclusively, but that it's built entirely around how one is perceived by others. (yes, I know you dig your looks in the mirror as well)

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  37. Nice Jewish DykeMay 2, 2012 at 9:15 PM

    @ Anon 4:06:

    Your post made me sit up straight and mentally applaud. LOL @ "Without those [female] things, we would all cry, and then die" - love it.

    Thank you for a breath of fresh, invigorating air.

    @ Anon 4:58:

    Not sure if you're the same anon as above but I love your post too, and was curious if you could expand on this:

    "at this time in history, [male privilege] comes with alot of social bullshit and alot of responsibility."

    I'm curious about your experience in this different cultural dimension and how you see and then wade through the social bullshit and responsibility as a transguy.

    Sincerely,
    NJD

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  38. BadDyke

    Anon 4:06 ripped out your dogmatic asshole and handed it to you on a plate. Start eating, love.

    You've been, how-do-you-say, "served".

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  39. I've been working on construction sites for about 25 years, sometimes I run them. I have worked with lots of Lesbians over the years,some straight women but never a trans person.

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  40. ".....other women are just going ahead and doing their thing. The problem is you. The sticking point is you."

    Same feeble sexist anti-feminist TRASH that you get from MRAs. That the PROBLEM isn't men and the systematic oppression of the sex-class women under the patriarchy, but just women being generally DIFFERENT from men, and that some of them are too FEEBLE to just get up and do stuff, but sit around whining instead.

    (I will admit, I used to think that when I was about 14, faced by the women and girls around me who didn't seem to be doing stuff that the boys did. But I've learnt some stuff since then........I'd advise you to try it.........).

    So, not the stunning riposte that some would like to think it was:

    "Anon 4:06 ripped out your dogmatic asshole and handed it to you on a plate. Start eating, love."

    But the same ole sexist crap from the usual suspects, in the same tired ole sexist language.

    Back to biology --we have the MAGICAL belief (surprise, surprise), that there are 'male' brains and 'female' brains, and that sex hormones magically change one type to the other, or that one type runs best on the 'right' sex hormones.

    Well, I'm NOT disputing that you can detect statistically significant DIFFERENCES between the average male brain and the average female brain, be that spatial reasoning or whatever other quantitative measure you care to name. But the key word there is AVERAGE. Because all this shite ignores the enormous overlap between the two distributions. So what you're left with is that SEX is a fairly poor predictor (say), of map-reading ability, or ability at maths, or whatever else you want to choose.

    And that's ignoring the possible effects of socialisation.........

    The point about the dear ole patriarchy and its prime fiction that is gender is that it takes this (possibly genetic) slight statistical TREND, and parts the red sea and makes it an almost impassable divide.

    We then also have the mental backflip from planet trans, where this statistical trend gets inflated, whereas the actual, 100% differences between male and female (i.e. dear ole reproductive biology) get totally ignored.

    "What's more, I will never, ever change these ideas because I came to them through my experience. "

    Well, that's just DUMB, to be totally frank, unless you mean to say you're popping off tomorrow and never, ever going to have any more 'experiences' ever again. Sometimes even true believers escape from the trans cult, and in fact shows the instability of your beliefs if you have to state so categorically that they will NEVER change.

    So, I say that my beliefs about innate gender MIGHT change if presented with sufficiently good evidence, but I think that just very unlikely.

    "You won't change my mind either, and you must accept that." Dearie me, how have you come to the mistaken impression that my sole aim in life is to CONVERT poor little you? AN inflated sense of your own importance methinks............

    O, I forgot to mention Re:
    "wired for hard-core analytical left-brain thinking or rational thought"

    The whole left-brain/right-brain thing is a popular MYTH. Ditto the 'hard-wired' thing as well, brains are much more PLASTIC than the conventional myths (both sexist/patriarchal and from the trans camp) like to admit.

    "Do I care if the dyke gets the construction job? Nope, I don't give a fuck." Ah, but I DO, if the reason why she can't get the job isn't that she isn't strong enough, or doesn't have the skills or aptitude, but that some sexist gender-believer like yourself ASSUMES that since she is female with a pink-girly brain, she won't be able to do it because of that 'statisticaly significant' difference that you keep banging on about.

    Anyway, thankyou for giving us all so much data to back up the point that the trans ideology is just plain-ole sexism under another name.

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  41. Just to add, a little interesting snippet about jobs. Take classical musicians. I'm sure you'll find PLENTY of statements about women musicians being DIFFERENT from male musicians. Probably used to explain why they didn't get picked as principal violinists etc.

    Except when, at interview, they did the SIMPLE thing of not telling the panel the SEX of the candidate, and having them play behind a screen, then MAGICALLY the number of women who were successful went up.

    Which has two possible explanations:

    1) Either the 'differences' were being conflated, and the mere knowledge that someone was a woman meant they were less likely to get picked, before she'd played a note (i.e. institutionalised sexism).

    OR

    2) women are DIFFERENT than men, and are somehow unable to play as well when they know someone can see them and might be looking at their ankles................

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  42. I'd hire a dyke in a hot minute, WindBag. Just as long as she's not the type to start blaming the "patriarchy" when she can't lift something, fix something, figure something out, or stay on task. I don't have anyone but myself to blame for my failures and shortcomings. You should try holding yourself accountable for something for a change.

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  43. "I'm curious about your experience in this different cultural dimension and how you see and then wade through the social bullshit and responsibility as a transguy."

    There is so much to say. I don't want to take up Dirt's space here
    (any more than I already have) so if you are interested in continuing this conversation, my e-mail is more.light9@gmail. Peace.

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  44. "I don't have anyone but myself to blame for my failures and shortcomings. You should try holding yourself accountable for something for a change."

    Except, O dim one, it's not HER short-comings or failures if she can't even get an interview because some stupid employer thinks a woman isn't up to the job.

    Sorry if you can't cope with reading posts that are longer than a two-sentence sound-bite...............

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  45. Oh, come now. I know I called you WindBag, but you know by now that I am pretty far from "dim" even if you don't want to admit it. It's not that I can't cope with long posts, I just can't cope with long posts that say the same thing over and over again and sit comfortably on the same stance of victimhood with no personal accountability. I am not comfortable being thought of as a victim, or thinking of myself as a victim. I am not at all comfortable using that to explain any lack of success/happiness/freedom in my life. I am positive that you and I are about as *far* from actual victimization as we could be, relative to women in sexual slavery, poor women of color, in slums, in impoverished, war-torn countries, in abusive relationships, being sold by family members, with no access to education, food, or medicine. Because you feel so sorry for yourself, WE HAVE NO SHARED UNDERSTANDING. May there be more women-owned businesses in the world so that the situation you describe can be eradicated. I'm into it! But I think the reason feminism has failed, insofar as it has, is that the victim-complex turns women off to being part of the movement. I don't think the majority of women want to actually *steep* in victimhood the way you seem to. I don't think that women who love men, in whatever capacity, are willing to buy that men are responsible for *all* ills, because that robs women of their agency, their complicity, their personal responsibility. Starts smelling like bullshit to many women. A theory that forsakes the real complexity of any social situation draws to it only the simple-minded and weak-hearted. It takes real strength to approach a hard situation with humility, compassion, and an open-mind. I believe those things are needed to effect real change. That's the kind of strength that I think you, and other feminists might lack and you, for that reason, are a disservice to the movement. Good role models are needed.

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  46. And again,

    BadDyke was served her dignity on a shiny silver platter.

    Eat up. And WAKE up, while you're at it.

    Anon, 4:13 PM, well said and well articulated. You are clearly her superior intellectually and morally. That much has become an apparent given.

    She takes up so much space with the same old tired rhetoric. It's all she has in the world...she can't help it.

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  47. How is BadDyke ever playing the 'victim' here?

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  48. Ah but any woman who implies that women are treated unfairly are embracing victimhood I suppose-

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