Change Your World-NOT your Body

Tuesday, January 10, 2012

Whats Feminine?


Who is more feminine and why?
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21 comments:

  1. Well, to be honest they both look the feminine. The one to the right has a mannish swag, but the arching of the eyebrows and make-up is very feminine. I aware im looking at a women.

    Passion

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  2. Both are beautiful in their own ways, and though the one on the left conforms more to traditional stereotypes of 'femininity' from a gender perspective, the one on the right is still very clearly expressing that she is a woman, and thus 'feminine'.
    So long as both are happy in their self-expression to the world, all is well and fair and both are equally 'feminine' in their own right.

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  3. According to 21st century western ideas of gender, the woman on the left would be considered more feminine. Its likely that in an era and culture with different values and fashions the woman on the right would be considered the height of femininity. So the term femininity, when it relates to gender, lacks any real meaning because it can have several conflicting definitions.

    If you understand femininity to mean 'anything related to biological females' then they are both equally feminine. Any male bodied person would be masculine - from Arnie to Johnny Weir.

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  4. I think we have already seen the expected confusion with words!

    So, do we just mean LOOKS female in terms of biological aspects of their appearance (secondary sexual characteristics, face shape, fat distribution etc etc) all of which have a tighter or looser correlation with ACTUAL physical sex.

    Or do we just mean fairly arbitrary aspects of appearance that have, for various social reason, become associated with one sex rather than another.

    These two aspects both hide within 'feminine', the plain ole biological and the socially-constructed. Or our ole friends sex and gender...........

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  5. The woman on the left is more feminine because the word feminine has a shared meaning and definition. She embodies it. If you want to start down the semantics road, you will end up having to redefinine the words "man" and "woman". Which should be redefined. And that would leave it wide open for people to define themselves as they see fit. Which should and does happen. You are just a litte behind.

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  6. I have learned something in the last time, thinking a lot about the difference of "feminine" and "female".

    "Feminine" is usually used in the sense of "conforming to the way a female is expected to be/look/behave in todays (patriarchal) society". "Feminine" is a construct, consisting of traditions, expectations, pressure and a good share of lies. So, of course, the one on the left is more "feminine".

    "Female", they both are.

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  7. "because the word feminine has a shared meaning and definition. "

    Except WORDS and MEANINGS aren't that simple, that is the whole point!

    So, the point here is that feminine can (and does) have too different and non-overlapping meanings in terms of what I would call gender (gender roles/not innate/social construct), and in terms of sex and biology (appertaining to female biology).

    "And that would leave it wide open for people to define themselves as they see fit. " Except, just because you say that WOMAN to you means someone with some magical inner femaleness, say, doesn't mean that the rest of us have to agree with that (I prefer adult human female, and female in the simple biological sense), or will ever agree with that.

    Same ole mix-up of gender and sex and definitions -- if innate gender and hormones and surgery don't make someone enough of a man or enough of a woman (given issues of social conditioning/experience/functional organs versus fuck-holes blah blah), you can't CHANGE the facts of biology and surgery by just changing your definition of what being a MAN is.

    People being able to define themselves as they see fit DOESN'T mean that anyone else has to agree, and doesn't change the facts, or mean that their self-definition has to be true.

    I could define myself as a tree, it still wouldn't make me wooden (apart from my writing style, but WTF!).

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  8. male and female are biological realities
    there's no reason to change their meaning
    feminine and masculine are constructs that can and do change through time

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  9. It's not just boring ole semantics BTw. When someone (as I've seen on the web), tries to redefine lesbian in terms of GENDER attraction, which then leads to claims that a lesbian who doesn't want to sleep with a self-identifying lesbian who is a pre-op M2F trans person is twanzphobic..........

    I get a bit annoyed. Because someone is trying to not just invade womens or lesbians space, but also trying to tell us how and what we should also be attracted to.

    Let's face it, taking away the right to NAME ourselves and DESCRIBE ourselves was always a common tactic of the patriarchy.

    Homosexual, the clue is in the WORD.

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  10. To me, feminine womyn wear make-up, and girly-clothes: frills, dresses, mini's, high-heels and anything related to this and the likes!! She also wears her hair to her shoulders at least. Feminine womyn wear bra's and panties; not male-looking-like boxers (what for?)

    [the womon on the left is definitely feminine looking; the black person on the right--if I didn't know before, I would of guess "she" is a cute boy at first--then I realized she is a womon--but looks very masculine looking; I guess??-- I don't know, sorry??]

    I can't picture dykes, butches, and SOME semi-sporty dykes wearing girly/feminine attire: dresses, high-heels and some make-up (if she is a a true lesbian--whatever that is?); because it doesn't look "right" on her, but then again, I guess it depends on how she carries herself too, I guess?

    I'm 100% femme myself, there is NOTHING male or masculine about me inside or out!! I wear make-up, basic earrings, perfume, get my nails done and I stopped wearing dresses years ago (I always hated them; but still feminine, thank you!!)

    I have yet to see a "feminine" butch/dyke womon out there myself; but then again, it takes all kinds??

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  11. "not male-looking-like boxers (what for?)"]

    Cos their COMFY, and made of much better material and better elastic than the nonsense that you get in 'womens' underwear................

    Why not?

    "if she is a a true lesbian--whatever that is?" Why shouldn't a lesbian wear make-up? What should manner of dress have to do with who you are attracted to -- unless you have realised that wanting to wear the uncomfortable, flimsy and downright dangerous gear (i.e. shoes that you can't walk in without disfiguring your feet, let alone run!) that 'femininity' demands has nothing whatsoever to do with your actual sex or biology or who you actually ARE, and everything to do with what patriarchal society expects as proper behaviour and proper modes of dress from proper women.............

    Thinking that wearing make-up and earrings etc is some sort of proof that there is nothing 'male' about you just shows that you have believed the lies that your sex determines what you really want to wear/what you should find attractive, rather than your sex determining what society thinks it is appropriate for you to wear.

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  12. well i do love women who wear and do the traditionally 'feminine' things, because those are the things i like to be around, maybe since i lack them entirely

    same anonymous from 2:32

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  13. it seems that aruna is just stating what she is drawn to wearing. she feels the way she feels and likes the things she likes. What is wrong with that?
    i truly believe that lesbian feminism is in the state its in because lesbian feminists are always trying to "enlighten" women about how fucked-up they are. How condescending! Many of us queers have been shamed our whole lives, so why would we align ourselves with people who shame us again, only with different objectives?

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  14. There is never shame in seeking truth, the only shame are those who ingest without any thought whatsoever.

    dirt

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  15. The woman on the left to me is feminine.

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  16. You can't tell which is more feminine by looking at the pictures...

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  17. Well, if you ignore the superficial added stuff like clothing, hairstyle etc:

    As for the right woman, I know this sounds vague, but she has that certain soft look in her face typical for females .

    As for the left woman, she is not acting "real" in this picture, so you simply can't really infer anything about her from this picture. I hope for her she is not most times like this, it reminds me of Kraftwerk :)

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  18. A couple of somewhat random thoughts here.

    "Feminine" has two distinct but intertwined meanings: One being the adjective form of female, which is (somewhat) neutral. The other is a hot mess. It's confused with very culturally specific versions of attractive or "hot" which is very biased towards the present day and young white women who dress and comport themselves in media-approved "feminine" ways.

    That's why people influenced by dominant white American/European cultural thinking tend to see Black women, Asian women, women of color in general as less "feminine" or attractive, especially if they don't have "white" features or body types that tend to be more characteristic of white women.

    In the same way, I bet a photo woman in Amish clothing, a woman in traditional dress from an "alien" culture, etc. would be perceived as less feminine. Or what if I were to post a photo of a woman from an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon rainforest? I bet she'd be percieved by most western people as "unfeminine" as well, even if she were regarded as dressing and conducting herself in an appropriate "feminine" manner in her own culture.

    How much you want to bet an 80-year-old woman would be perceived as less "feminine" as well? Even if her appearance/behavior conformed to culturally specific "feminine" expectations? Or a photo of an ordinary woman from 1910, 1930, etc.?

    "Feminine" has been totally confused with a Hollywood-generated "glamour" version of "femininity" that mostly applies to young, thin white women--and to some extent today, women of color who can successfully imitate it (i.e. not too "dark," not too much hip/butt, not too heavy, not too thin or not "curvy" enough, not too flat-chested, etc.)

    So all this has nothing to do with feminine as pertaining to female. Or even what is regarded as properly "feminine" within any cultural context. It's just regurgitating how well your mind can gauge a completely ahistorical, culturally specific, Hollywood notion of "feminine."

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  19. According to current cultural mentality, the woman on the left is the feminine one. Why? Because she has long hair, a dress and make up. And sadly, few people realise the gaping absense of logic in that sentence.

    As if hair, clothes and face paint have anything to do with gender whatsoever. I was made to LOL recently when I mentioned to someone that there was once a time when humans wore no clothes, and she mentioned that now we do, we need clothes to tell who's who - LMAO! Oh yes, of course, without clothing and hair, it would be IMPOSSSIBLE to tell a man from a woman...maybe if you're pea brained, and actually, all this rampant psychological brainwashing is dumbing down people's natural intelligence, as they ignore their own conclusions and all obvious signs in favour of the warped 'guidelines'. Subconsciously most of the time.

    I'm constantly told I look like a man and act like one which makes me lol because people don't realise how stupid comments like that are. Short hair is male? How about low maintenance. Loose clothing is male? How about it's practical. People don't seem to know the difference between nature and culture.

    I don't mind being told that I'm in 'violation' of cultural rules and guidelines, but I draw the ine at being acused of being in violation of nature. As long as they get their story right, it's all cool - in violation of society's norms, NOT of nature.
    To me, feminine is energy, not materialism and therefore anyone and anything can have feminine qualities, it is not based on gender.

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  20. The person on the left is preforming feminine. The person on the right is preforming masculine. It is literally that simple.

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