Change Your World-NOT your Body

Saturday, January 28, 2012

FTM Facts Corroborated by the FTM Community

While this site clearly is HIGHLY self indulgent, it does corroborate many facts that have been discussed here that copious amounts of female transitioners have tried denying. A few of those corroborated undeniable truths:

  • There is no specific age when a person decides (decides, NOT born) they are transgendered.
  • There has been very little long term study of testosterone use in F.T.M.s.
  • Any person on hormones is a chemistry experiment.
  • A growing number of F.T.M.s who have been on hormones for 4 to 5 years who have not had hysterectomies, have developed intrauterine complications. These range from endometriosis to fibroid cysts, to fibrous scar tissue forming around the reproductive organs, to absorption of the organs into the abdominal muscles or even, in a couple of cases, into the intestines.
  • Body hair appears within the first two months and can continue to grow in new places up to seven years.
  • Balding is a very real possibility. It can begin as soon as three months into hormone therapy.
  • There are many who choose not to undergo an hysterectomy and suffer no ill-effects, although there does seem to be a greater degree of difficulty dealing with the last few days before the next injection, known as the trough. In the 3 to 4 days before the next injection, many F.T.M.s (with female reproductive organs still functioning) report irritability, shortness of attention span, headaches, fatigue, lack of sex drive, and sometimes cramping similar to menstrual cramping. 
  •  The phalloplasty is usually a series of surgeries, not just one. The surgeries are still brutal and leave extensive scars on several places of the body; usually the inside of one forearm, the lower side of the torso, and the side of one thigh.
  •  Some F.T.M.s have spent nearly one year in recovery stages from the surgeries, dealing with infections, getting corrective surgeries, and sometimes having to deal with their body's out-and-out rejection of the graft. The emotional toll of this surgery can be incredibly high. The surgically constructed penis is also non-functional sexually.
  • Mental health is tightly intertwined with general health. Most F.T.M.s tend to isolate. Not only do they deny themselves contact with society at large, they tend to isolate from each other. Even though this has slowly been changing in urban areas within the past five years, it tends to be the rule of thumb. 
  •  This has not, however, kept F.T.M.s from contracting H.I.V. or other S.T.D.s. In both urban and rural areas, the number of F.T.M.s who have sero-converted has risen in the past three years. Herpes is wide-spread if not epidemic. A large number of F.T.M.s have spoken up about cases of gonorrhea as well.

dirt


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105 comments:

  1. This list looks almost exactly like the list of warnings my spouse was give by the therapist, general practitioner and endocrinologist. They warned about baldness and the fact that this was basicaly an experiment as there is very little data. Yet my sweety still opted for the T.

    At least my spouse was properly forwarned by the medical establishment.
    Which I am pretty sure that most trans are warned about this stuff.

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  2. Good for her anon, then she wont be surprised by the negative results and change in sexual attraction.

    dirt

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  3. Yes my spouse did have a shift in sexuality. From bisexual with a preferance for men to bisexual with a preferance for women.

    Looks like I dodged a bullet there...

    Would I prefer that the T not come into our lives? Yes. But things are so much better now. I haven't had to hide pills or spy for years. The constant unremiting depression has been exchanged for a generaly decent mood with actual outbreaks of angry emotion when anger rises its ugly head. I will take the angry out burst over suicidal depression. At least with the anger once it is adressed it goes away. With the depression and suicide ideation there was the constant threat of coming home to a corpse.
    Could things be better? Yes. But it is what it is.

    (I am the anon at 9:26.)

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  4. Dirt, you mentioned that F2T's tend to isolate themselves. That in itself does seem rather "male" to me. At the same time, I've noticed that M2T's tend to become more sociable. Not sure whether both of these phenomena are due to the emotional effects of cross-sex hormones, or if they are simply adopting stereotypical behaviors.

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  5. Withdrawing is more to do with fear/shame at not being what they pretend to be. I cant say I've known any men who isolate themselves or have heard of men doing that. Sounds like a gender straight jacket stereotype.

    dirt

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  6. 4:36, I don't think that 2:53 was asking a question, just putting a couple of theories forward, theories that do not go against anything posed by 'DIrt,' mind you, but generally trans-cultists like to insult disbelievers at any opportunity here.

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  7. I haven't seen or heard of evidence that ftm's isolate themselves from social situations at a higher rate than any other population. Dirt is not a social scientist and should not be trying to interpret data to support her own wack-a-doodle theories. In my opinion, she is a bitter and hateful, mentally ill lesbian who has major personal problems. Not a sociologist.

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  8. i notice 'lesbian' is in your lists of dirt's faults

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  9. Isolating yourself is common in people with various types of autism and research has shown that ftms are more autistic than other females: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/224443.php

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  10. Lesbian is a noun. all the faults i wrote are descriptive adjectives. i have many lesbian friends who are perfectly able to psychologically differentiate between their identities and mine. They have healthy brains and don't give too much energy to transness, but rather focus on the quality of our connection, shared interests, fun times, support *as humans* .That's how I know Dirt is disordered.

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  11. I have as much belief in autism as I have in transsexualism- the teeniest amount of the vast diagnoses are 'accurate' (if any) - speaking as someone supposedly in the 'spectrum' (of both things really)

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  12. i just wondered why you called her a mentally ill LESBIAN

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  13. This is a copied response to the above article.


    Correlation does not imply causation. The article makes the rash assumption that autism is a contributing factor to a transman's transsexualism. I find this appalling because not only does it seek to remove legitimacy from transsexualism but it also fails to mention that there may be a confounding factor involved, such as exposure to testosterone in the womb, which as been shown to be associated with autism and believed to be a factor in transmen's transsexualism.

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  14. Because that's what she is and because I believe that she embarked on this campaign partially because of fear and scarcity-thinking brought on by her own marginalization. Combined with a paranoid mental illness.

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  15. didn't exposure to testosterone in the womb used to be used to explain lesbianism?

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  16. "I cant say I've known any men who isolate themselves or have heard of men doing that."

    lol really?
    "I don't know any men who isolate themselves from the world. Therefore, they do not exist."

    Of course you wouldn't.
    They're withdrawn from the world, which obviously includes you.

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  17. "there may be a confounding factor involved, such as exposure to testosterone in the womb, which as been shown to be associated with autism and believed to be a factor in transmen's transsexualism."

    That's the whole point of the "autism"-article the Anon before you linked. A confounding factor.

    Also, it is not about "autism", but Asperger (!), the mildest variant.

    More importantly, it does NOT state merely that people with Asperger are having the belief they're transsexual.

    It states that girls with above-averge but BELOW (!) Asperger-level "autistic traits" can develop the idea that they're transmen - BECAUSE of socio-cultural factors involved.

    The point with Simon Baron-Cohen is that he views all people, not as belonging to a male-female gender spectrum or dichotomy, but as belonging to an systematical-emphatizing autistic spectrum. That might seem a bit awkward, but it is still quite refreshing compared to the gender dichotomy. He has always advocated for embracing (mild) so-called autistic traits in anyone, whether male or female.

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  18. "The article makes the rash assumption that autism is a contributing factor to a transman's transsexualism. I find this appalling because not only does it seek to remove legitimacy from transsexualism...."

    Thou shalt not DOUBT whatever a self-identified transperson says.

    Looking at reports about the paper, I can't find ANY such assumption, just records that transmen show a higher incidence for autistic traits, and statements such as:

    "The awareness of the presence of autistic features may help these young people to explore the reasons behind their perceptions, and help them make more informed decisions about treatment."

    More INFORMED decisions, what's so bad about that?

    What another researcher said is:

    "If such girls do believe they have a boy's mind in a girl's body, their higher than average number of autistic traits may also mean they hold their beliefs very strongly, and pursue them to the logical conclusion: opting for sex reassignment surgery in adulthood."

    So, thou shalt not ever look at the possibility that other aspects might have some influence on the decisions people make either. Or that an autistic girl MAY mistakenly come to believe they are trans, just as the trans community is so reluctant to discuss trans regrets. Because once you admit that trans rests on self-reporting and that some people MAY be mistaken, then the whole house starts to look a bit rocky.

    And what do we find? The comment earlier here pretty much cut and pasted from comments on the original news reoprt, and loads of objections to the supposed implications of this and disrespect towards transmen for not just believing every word they say about their innate gender.............

    Could people, even very few people, be possibly MISTAKEN about being trans? Trans lobby refuses to even consider it, which seems a tad irresponsible given the suggested treatment.

    And they certainly won't consider ANY research that seeks to tease out the causes, unless it says -- yes chaps, you really DO have a male brain....................

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  19. Just look at this discussion:

    http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt77766.html

    A female diagnosed with aspergers who is now wondering if she is/should have been a man because she likes more boy things, and is crap at socialising.............

    Whereas I would just say -- probably just aspergers, my nephew has aspergers, good at situations that involve logic, crap at reading emotions, hence no wonder you get on better with the sex that has been trained to suppress emotional interaction, and concentrate on spark-plugs and football stats.

    From my experience with my nephew, he is desperate to know WHAT THE RULES are, and given the rules, he tries to keep to them 100%. Hence, if he ever became convinced he was trans, he'd go the whole hog, because according to him, you ieither follow the rules and do it properly, or you don't do it at all. Ditto a female friend of mine who convinced herself she was trans -- same obsessive fascination with RULES (including gender role rules), and doing it properly.

    But still sad -- again and again, I don't liker girl things, I don't likr shopping, I don't FIT with other girls and girly chat, therefore I must be a boy, rather than ANY acknowledgement of the full width of human personality traits. God, in this climate, Marie Curie would never have discovered radium and won two Nobel prizes, she'd have been too busy worrying that her unfeminine interest in chemistry, physics and mathematics meant she was really a man..........

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  20. "God, in this climate, Marie Curie would never have discovered radium and won two Nobel prizes, she'd have been too busy worrying that her unfeminine interest in chemistry, physics and mathematics meant she was really a man.........."

    This is really black-and-white thinking and it makes you sound ridiculous. There will always be women. There will always be women who don't think, look, act, or dress like typical women. There will be more and more female doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, and left-brained thinkers and analysts. There will always be butch dykes who feel like women and butch dykes who don't but don't feel like men either. There will always be female-bodied trans people who don't transition. Your alarmist obsession with this only serves to discredit you.

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  21. "There will always be female-bodied trans people who don't transition"

    What does that mean?

    and also this part:

    "There will always be butch dykes who feel like women and butch dykes who don't but don't feel like men either."

    What does it feel like to 'feel like a woman' or a man?

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  22. What does it mean? Either you can answer that for yourself or you can't, but you can rest assured that there exist plenty of people on this earth who feel like women or men. They exist, they can describe it and/ or embody it, and it's good enough for me. You may not be one of these people, I don't know...

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  23. i've yet to hear anybody able to describe feeling like either sex, aside from feeling his or her body with their hands or something, or listing their interests that are 'supposed to be' associated with one sex or the other
    and this belief that anybody and everybody can be trans whether they think it or not or act on it or not...
    it all sounds like a combination of ultra-conservatism and kooky queer-theory which honestly are appearing to merge into one
    extremely simplistic regressive thinking (unlike the right-wingy nut version it's) pretending to be progressive or radical

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  24. i feel like a woman because i am a woman
    as are ALL ftm's
    who also feel like women

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  25. I think everyone posting on this blog is kooky, that includes both the transfolks and the feminists. heck even I'm a retard for commenting on here. why did i do it again? oh right.. to let you know that you are all mentally deranged lunatics and its entertaining to watch you dykes and shemales fighting each other about whos wrong when clearly you ALL are twisted. If you're a woman, thats what you were born, and your purpose is to marry a man and have children, not take hormones, chop off ur titts and have sex with other women

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  26. irritated psych postgradJanuary 31, 2012 at 3:40 AM

    Given Aspergers and autistic syndromes are more common in males, due to brain wiring and structure I am unsurprised that transmen have above-average AS traits. Non-Neurotypicality has been described as "extreme male-brain"

    There is no reason why this should remove the legitimacy of anyone. being non-neurotypical does not make someone's thoughts and perceptions illegitimate.

    Also also, Aspergers syndrome is not the "mildest" version of autism. It is mostly distinguished from autism by a lack of speech delay.

    Wouldn't one cause of FTM's isolating themselves be people deny their identities, and act in a discriminatory manner toward them...You know, like on this blog?

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  27. haha women are supposed to marry men and have children? that's usually the transsexual viewpoint as well.

    and believing in reality is not the same as 'denying identity'

    and believing in 'male brains' is just the style of the day which will likely fade away

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  28. I really, really worry about the number of FTM's who date either Femme or Butch women who are Lesbian or bi, and also have sex with gay/bi men once they transition, especially the types who were pretty solidly Lesbian before transition, bringing A.I.D.S. and other STDS into the Lesbian community at much higher rates than they were before. Lesbians are the LOWEST risk group for A.I.D.S in particular, gay/bi men the highest, and now FTM's will be the conduit between the two of them exposing many Lesbians potentially to A.I.D.S in a way we never were exposed before. Pansexuality is becoming ever more the norm in this 'queer' world.

    One reason I am 100% Dyke, practice safe sex outside my primary partnership, and only date other 100% Dykes or born female female proud womyn. Doesn't mean that herpes isn't prevalent in the Lesbian community, it is, and other potential STDs, but penises spread diseases much quicker than vagina to vagina contact, and especially with a 50% infection rate of A.I.D.S in the gay/bi male communities that FTM's are now courting to further 'prove' their 'manhood' or their male worship, as another flavor..and the pressure also by gay/bi men to have sexual access to them as well as 'bottommen' mostly....very, very scary stuff, and especially for Dykes if you date bisexual women who have been with FTM's or you yourself date/have sex with them.

    Many, many FTMs want to experiment these days with bio male gay/bi sex. And continue to date Butches or Femmes.

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  29. "but you can rest assured that there exist plenty of people on this earth who feel like women or men. They exist, they can describe it and/ or embody it, and it's good enough for me."

    But is it? I get treated as a woman much of the time, but this isn't to do with gender, but a plain ole assumption about my biological sex -- gender roles, gendered clothing, or secondary sexual characteristics are just the visual clues that most people use to try and infer sex.

    You can feel, as a biological woman, that you don't fit in with many of the other biological women (okay, let's cut the crap, I use woman to refer to simple biology) around me. I can also feel that in some ways I fit in more with some of the men I see around me. Or that I fit with neither. I fit in with some of the dykes I see around me.

    Feeling like a man inside? Feeling like a woman inside -- I don't think I feel like either, I just feel like me. Innate gender, I don't have it. Socialisation, I have loads of that, some of which I try to escape from, some I don't. Biology, I'm just stuck with that, but most of the time my biology ticks along okay.

    But me, in essence. As Descartes said, I think therefore I am, but not, I think, therefore I'm a girl.

    Some people may feel like they are a woman or a man, but I don't. they may think they have an innate gender that makes them the same (or similar) to me -- except I don't because I don't have that innate gender, just plain ole biology.

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  30. I've always been one to mess around with gender-stereotypes, not usually intentionally- it just happens. I am not overweight or ugly or excessively 'butchy' (I think labelling oneself even as 'butch' is limiting) I do not believe that any man or woman 'feels like' a man or a woman, only like themselves. The only time I think there are actual male/female feelings would be perhaps genital stimulation? And FTMs have female genitalia anyhow. (I guess unless they have a skin tube attached) FTMs feel like women because they are women. (even if they THINK otherwise) If they're on testosterone then they feel like women under the effects of a drug. Because that's what they ARE. The whole autism/ ass burgers/ male brain stuff is crapola.

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  31. Until every person on earth has their brain examined for assorted variations (which will not happen, thank heavens), this labeling of brains as male- or female-style will seem ridiculous to me.

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  32. this labeling of brains as male- or female-style will seem ridiculous to me.

    Brains do have a sex! My brain penis is bigger than yours! XD

    On the topic of Aspergers: it might be true that females with Aspergers have a brain anatomy that is more common in men, but it doesn't make it "male". Just like left handedness is more commom in men, but being left handed doesn't make you "male handed".

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  33. transsexualism doesn't take place just in the bedroom though
    i have to almost daily see bearded young women putting on a laughable approximation of malehood as they call each other bro and dress like 13 year old boys

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  34. now i don't mean to 'gender' clothing (i wear mostly men's togs as well) but maybe you understand what i'm getting at- big sideways baseball caps and high top sneakers you know... but they're also mostly short and slight so perhaps in actual children's wear

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  35. "If we ceed the power to bann transsexuals to the medical comunity because there is no known cause for it.."

    This is a side issue. I don't care if lesbianism is in the genes or a lifestyle choice -- pissing off baby jesus (and making myself happy cos I think women are cuddlier than men) seems a perfectly good reason for being a lesbian. I don't NEED to establish a biological basis for my lesbianism.

    As regards trans the issue is NOT that some people want to do stuff to their bodies with surgery, BUT that to access such surgery, they say they have 'male brains' or 'female brains' just like us females born females.

    That's the issue -- that biological men are claiming they are 'really' women with womens brains, despite all other indications as to their biolgical sex to the contrary.

    They're claiming that men and women are FUNDAMENTALLY different in the head, so different that if we have a brain in the 'wrong' sort of body, the person often prefers surgery and sterilization to just carrying on in their healthy body.

    That's the issue, not any prying into peoples bedrooms. Because these ideas are what men and women actually ARE effect ALL of us.

    So, I don't mind a chap doing what the heck he wants to his body -- griow an extra head or an extra arm if he can find someone to do it, it's his problem. BUT when he has surgery, and then claims he is now a woman LIKE ME, because he has a 'female brain', then that effects me, because it removes from me the right to name myself and to say who is and isn't like me. So, I name women based on plain ole biological sex, not because they think they are in the head where no one (not even the lesbian bed police, or the feminist sex police) can see.

    Similarly, when a biological women claims she has a 'male brain' because she likes doing such male things, or just feels male etc etc, then that reflects back on me, because it limits what IS allowed or expected of women, even more than it already is.

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  36. look at 'mariana's blog and see what his idea of 'woman' is!
    holy hell
    he has serious problems
    or 'pwoblems'

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  37. but as long as he's following the 'rules' which are apparently set by doctors??

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  38. MTF ideas nof womanhood are as accurate as FTM ideas of manhood. Utterly absurd.

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  39. Neither of those things sound enjoyable to me.

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  40. 3:24, do you not like 'transmen' either? Chaz Bono?

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  41. This man above (and most MTFs?) and most FTMs seem to have in common a similar worship of the phallus. Dirt you gotta delete this sick fuck's post(s?)

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  42. Bad Dyke, transpeople do not remove any rights from you. And saying or thinking that someone is "like you" just because they have xx sex chromosomes is laughable. You, like so many others, are taking transsexuality personally because you have invested far too much in a binary-gendered belief system. Transpeople are actually far more responsible for bringing to light the full spectrum of gender expression than feminists ever were.

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  43. 7:20,
    no way! 'transpeople' are buying into binary WAY more than people who don't believe in gender roles at all. as a natural androgyne i find transsexualism the exact opposite of freedom and openness... i mean it's all about not doing your real sex the 'correct' way and seting out to 'correct' yourself (but not really doing it yourself but with assistance from the medical industry)

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  44. and i don't think that 'baddyke' thinks that transists are taking away her rights nor do i think she is trying to 'ban' anything

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  45. "no way! 'transpeople' are buying into binary WAY more than people who don't believe in gender roles at all."

    You are wrong. Transpeople have done more to show the spectrum of gender to the world. People who identify as transgender may choose not to alter their bodies, pronouns, or even not to identify as any sex at all. Transness has put gender fluidity on the radar and done more to open people's eyes to the spectrum that actually exists than any of you have. Amongst the transpeople I know ( at least a couple hundred) I see more variance in actual gender presentation, mannerisms, personality etc. than I've ever seen at a dyke march! Gays and lesbians, on the other hand, seem to live and die by the clear distinction between TWO genders and their preference for one "side". Either you are stuck in the country getting your information from 80's documentaries or you'd prefer to believe falsehoods about us than actually getting to know us with an open mind and heart. I tend to think it may be the latter.

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  46. " Transpeople have done more to show the spectrum of gender to the world."

    Like in the Iran where homosexuals are forced to cange their gender?

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  47. Sorry it's change not cange.

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  48. @ Anon 7:20 PM

    Trans 'dudes' and the equally annoying tranny women are responsible for doing more damage to feminism, womens' rights and the lesbian community than they will EVER admit to. They buy into the binary and stir up shit in the gay community.

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  49. 10:46, don't you think it's odd that you alone know a couple hundred trans people when it's supposedly a very rare condition?

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  50. 10:46
    (same anonymous as above)
    I am in New York City, not stuck in the country, and I consider people thinking they're the opposite sex more of a 'falsehood' than anything.

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  51. and if the trans community and the homosexual community are as opposite as they seem to be, then T should ABSOLUTELY be removed from LGB

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  52. "because you have invested far too much in a binary-gendered belief system."

    Au contraire, I think gender is a load of crap, and the sonner we get rid of it the better!

    I believe (no, I KNOW, scientific fact), that SEX is (mostly) binary. XX or XY, that's it for a very large percentage of the population.

    Unlike trans people, I DON'T think that the different sexes are fundamentally different in the head (except where they were trained to be). SO, I think man and woman best linked to sex and reproductive realities, because whether or not you have a womb and have the capacity to get pregnant DOES matter a whole damn lot of those human beings who have such.

    The only binary-gendered beliefe system I see here is from the trans lobby, who repeatedly claim that they have a 'male brain' despite a female body, whereas I claim that everyone has a human brain, end of story (or if there are important biological differences that lead to differences in thinking etc, that this is so overlaid with what differences we are TAUGHT, that we can't see them.)

    Putting more steps on the gender spectrum from male to female ISN'T the same as saying gender should be abolished.

    As regards saying I'mm possibly like poeple with female biology -- that's not totally biological determinism, but society, which explictly DOES treat very, very differently, from the first second after birth, children seen as male as opposed to children seen as female. And this ISN'T some airy-fairy guess about GENDER, but a simple fairly-reliable guess at biological SEX. Is it a girl or a boy?

    So, I probably have MORE in common with other biological females, because we have the common experience of being RAISED as womb-bearers in a patriarchal society. I probably have a lot less in common with someone raised MALE, because they have been raised male, with all that entails. That person then claiming they are a woman like me then is laughable, because they don't fit that category, either in terms of biology, or life experience.

    Removing the power of naming from women is a classic tactic, that causes a great deal of harm. After all, HOW can you talk about women as a sex-class and the resultant oppression in the patriarchy if you can no longer TALK about women as a sex-class, but instead have to include in that everyone convinced they are a woman in the head.

    All this gender-presentation stuff is just CRAP, because the trans crowd thinks it is something IMPORTANT and fundamental.

    "Gays and lesbians, on the other hand, seem to live and die by the clear distinction between TWO genders" Nope, TWO SEXES, simple biology. I prefer people with wombs, I choose according to SEX, not some airy-fairy belief about gender. And commonality of experience and sensation BASED on sex.

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  53. Feminism and sex/gender:

    Sex is just plain ole biology, gender is a load of crap that we could do better without, and certainly linking gender expression to SEX just makes it worse.

    Sex shouldn't matter, except where biological realities intervene. We're men and women in the body, but all human in the head. Gender and gender expression as some sort of fundamental part of your human identity just constrains us as humans, and stops us recognising the full width of human potentiality.

    Trans and gender:

    Gender is KING, so much so that some people need to alter/mutilate their bodies to try and make their innate gender better fit their 'biology'. Yet at the same time, gender is fluid and many-faceted.........

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  54. re: 10:46 knowing hundreds of transes
    nowadays 'knowing' most likely means exchanging words or looking at words/videos of people within their internet-based echo chamber
    i don't personally KNOW hundreds of any kind of person

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  55. "i don't personally KNOW hundreds of any kind of person"

    The difference between 'know' and 'know of'. I know of hundreds of idiots on the internet, but thankfully (hopefully!) I don't KNOW any of them!

    P.S. I also 'know of' loads of great women on the internet, and unfortunately I'll never know most of them.

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  56. I agree that trans people completely buy into gender stereotypes, and do absolutely nothing INTENTIONALLY to expand any boundaries. Because it's not possible to change from female to male, they have had to come up with all this strange terminology to explain the reality of their situation (women with varying degrees of male secondary sexual characteristics.)Very, very sad.

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  57. I transitioned 9 years ago and live in a city where transpeople tend to come to transition because of availability of services and understanding. I'm very active socially in the queer community. So no, my trans friends are not out in the ether. They are flesh and blood. Most call themselves feminists and none believe in traditional gender roles. Guess I just pick my friends well. PS homosexuality used to be considered a rare condition..

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  58. if they don't believe in gender roles, why play at the opposite gender?

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  59. tho lots of youngsters seem to be doing it because it's the new cool form of 'queer' (how i wish we hadn't reclaimed that word back in the 80's-90's...) do you think most girls who think they're boys would have been ordinary gaygirls in the past, before the days of widely available hormones and therapists eager to ok transition? there are indeed big subcultures of ftms especially revelling in their queerness and inhabiting queer ghettos which i would think would be difficult for them to leave (see the 'original plumbing' gang)- it's a 'style' - can't wait to see them all as 40+ year olds

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  60. how transsexualism differs from homosexuality- delusion and outside intervention
    where's Dirt?

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  61. The term 'original plumbing' is representative of the most extreme example of society's growing and disturbing sense of disconnect between mind and body.

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  62. I'm here. What do you need?

    dirt

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  63. just hadn't seen you round here in a while!

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  64. Changing your body has nothing to do inherently with roles. Transition to feel how you want to feel in your body, then do whatever the f**k you want to do with your life. If people feel traditional, that's okay but I don't know many guys like that. Upholding traditional gender roles is not a good reason to transition, because it's based on societal expectations and not an internal sense of identity. That won't hold water over the long haul. Myself included, no one I know believes that denying yourself what you really want and feel is radical or awesome. Admitting what you feel, moving on and facing up to the task of being a good human is possible and necessary regardless of your body.

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  65. You are not "in your body", you ARE your body. That the trans disordered think the former only illustrates just how terribly mentally ill they are.

    dirt

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  66. No Dirt, YOU are not in your body.

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  67. "You are not "in your body", you ARE your body."

    Agree with that.

    "Transition to feel how you want to feel in your body.. " Okay, then rather than being conservative as regards gender, you're instead being conservative, as it were, as regards possible body mods. In that you ditch female-looking bits and bobs and 'replace' them with surgically constructed simulacra of male bits and bobs.

    If you wanna go for body mods, fair enough, add extra limbs, remove limbs, grow an extra head if you could.....

    It still doesn't answer the question as to WHY what you want to feel is male-type bits and bobs that don't actually WORK (and from what I've read, don't give you that much sexual sensation either), as opposed to female ones that do.

    WHY do you require replacing a functional female body and organs with a body with removed healthy organs, and a simulacra of male organs? Because let's face it, we are still talking the sexual binary here, rather than, say, trying to create totally new style genitalia.......

    The BINARY is still there, however you may deny the binary being about gender.................

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  68. The require mimicking males, because they have internalized patriarchy's pure hatred of women.

    dirt

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  69. Actually, i do have the "new style" genitalia and i find it very satisfying. Not a phalloplasty but a very sensitive organ that can penetrate. Now, i will cop to *sometimes* wishing I had a big dick, but I know how to choose my battles. If I *am* my body, then that seems like biological determinism. If we go there, then women should really not be trying to perform any hard labor besides the labor or childbirth, and a whole bunch of you out there are denying your bodies their intended purpose. I font wanna go there. Do you?

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  70. *dont* wanna go there...thick thumbs..

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  71. yeah why try to emulate 'maleness' at all if you don't believe in binary? why not install 3 phallus or goldfish shaped attachments to your vagina or elsewhere? why grow hair out of your face and body to fool strangers into thinking you're male? why change your name to a male name? why lower your voice with drugs to sound male? why not install a voicebox that makes you sound like a goose or a racecar? is it just coincidental that all these girls just happen to think that being percieved as a boy is better than as what they really are? is it just coincidental that they all tend to look (and act and apparently think) very much alike? i know lots of dykes have a similar style too- i'm not crazy about that either- i despise conformity, the type that markets itself as a subculture is by far my least favorite... at least most other fads don't involve altering one's chemistry with pharmaceuticals and demanding people to accept and address one as something one is clearly not

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  72. Biology only determines sex, it has never determined what is possible for that sex except in biological matters.

    That you and the trans community have been convinced otherwise illustrates your buying into the gender straight jacket that patriarchy has placed you in on the day you were born. That you have (in a few instances) switched jackets doesnt change the limited possibilities outlined by patriarchy.

    And with regards to your clitoris, unless you began with an under average clitoris, testosterone only increases its size in a fraction of females and minutely in all females.

    dirt

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  73. "testosterone only increases its size in a fraction of females and minutely in all females."

    LOL. I guess I lucked out again then.
    Your sentence about biology doesn't make any sense btw. There are clear differences between physical capabilities of men(transmen included), and women. No, you cannot just work out more and look like a man. Hormones make profound changes to a body.

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  74. that's so brave of you how hormones changed your body

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  75. "There are clear differences between physical capabilities of men(transmen included), and women. No, you cannot just work out more and look like a man. "

    Is that IT? Men are stronger than women, on average, except we all know women who are stronger than some men we know.

    If you did it for the muscles, then bodybuilding would have been easier (or just plain ole steroids).

    And not ALL men are the muscley gods of the trans imagination -- and nor are all transmen either, when they turn into a version of their podgy bald uncle after transition, rather than the muscley dude they were hoping for....................

    To some people, seems the highly variable aspects of biology such as muscles are more related to biology is destiny than really unalterable things like wombs and functioning penises.

    Penis envy writ large, seems that is what we have come to.............

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  76. You lucked out how anon? What exactly does the size of your clitoris have to do with men? Unless your clitoris is a lot easier for men to lick/suck now.

    Also you seem to have some seriously misguided understandings of women. Pound for pound (without exercise) some men have a larger upper body than women, lower body pound for pound is similar.

    As a female myself, I have long (from childhood till now) had males tell me they wished they had my strength/build and I've never once used a muscle enhancing drug.

    And you might wanna rethink what "looking like a man" truly means, especially when women get mistaken for them everyday when they refuse the gender straight jacket you subscribe to.

    dirt

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  77. "Hormones make profound changes to a body."

    According to the OED: profound:
    "Of a field of knowledge, intellectual topic, etc.: demanding deep study, research, or consideration; containing great depths of meaning and import; (of meaning or significance) deep, important."

    Except this ISN'T what T does, the changes are purely superficial...

    Only appears to be profound because of the inflated importance that our sick society assigns to such surface aspects of 'gender'. As they do to short hair and not wearing dresses.

    In the REAL depths of your body, the organs and bones, the cells and nerves and genes, you're still female and always will be.

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  78. I don't think that believing that you are your body means biological determinism, at least not for me; I think of it as each cell in your body containing your self, being your self... concentrating on reproductive organs (like having babies is a woman's body's job etc.) would indicate a very simplified view of gender and of human life in general.

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  79. if a swollen dangling clitoris doesn't scream 'manhood' i don't know what does!

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  80. Just realised that what is going on here is just plain ole cartesian dualism in some sense. Descartes (I'm pink therfore I'm spam, or summat like that!) had mind and body as distinct.

    It's what is being argued by some in the trans crowd -- there's your BRAIN where you do all the thinking stuff (unchangable, whatever psychiatrists may think), then there's your BODY, which is just where your brain happens to live........Hence the brain (sex) is fixed (that's GENDER, although terminology is confusing and confused!), whereas BODY is as mutable as you can persuade a surgeon. And possible to have a brain stuck in the wrong life-support system (i.e male brain, female body).

    Hence, SEX is of the body and not fundamental, where GENDER is of the brain and unchangable. And if you say that you are attracted to BODIES (i.e. SEX), rather than ivory-tower minds (i.e. gender), you're a nasty biological determinist who would see women chained to the kitchen sink as victims of their biology.........

    Or any delusional nonsense in your mind trumps the plain ole biology of the body, and I'm REALLY a sixteen foot alien blue asparargus spear, and I demand the vegetative surgery that requires, else I'll BOIL myself, just you see......................

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  81. isn't the all-powerful testosterone telling you you made the right decision? which is altering that brain which is a part of that same female body

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  82. I think in-depth philosophical discussion of this serious topic should be encoraged rather than labeled 'hate-' some people do not accept 'because I say so' or 'because I like it' as an explanation for anything.

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  83. (not that we are OWED an explanation (I know transpeople take great offense to that possibility) but it is sonething that is happening in the world that we all inhabit to fellow human beings and worthy of dissemination)

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  84. I guess I should have said we don't take those explanations as gospel while at the same time trying to be convinced that it's 'science' as well

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  85. I like in depth philosophical discussion. It seems that most people here, though, are projecting so much of their experience onto ftms that they wouldn't be able to accept any reason for transition. Being partially open to new ideas is necessary for a philosophical discussion. Not believing that you know everything there is to know about life and human experience is necessary, I believe. At least I have learned to stay open and I like my life that way. I don't find much of that openness on this site and I am constantly disappointed.

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  86. I guess for myself it's nearly impossible to consider trans a 'new idea' when it seems built around very old (and what seems to me at least) outdated ideas...

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  87. I don't think trans is a new idea. Its a human trait displayef throughout history in many cultures. I think the ideas about it change. Whereas some cultures see us as potential shamans, Dirt sees us through her own lens of feminist vitriole. I believe we have to stay open because we actually do not know everything there is to know.

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  88. Potential shamans, really? Even when it's artificially induced through medication and surgery? I'd think that the potential shaman thing would go more with naturally androgynous or in-between type-naturally-gendered people. I would never dare to sanctify my nature in that way! But I suppose it helps some sleep at night thinking they're doing some Great Thing as opposed to just digging being percieved as the opposite sex.

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  89. the shaman thing is usually presented as a two-spirit kind of thing. as in embodying male and female spirit. i guess many indigenous cultures embrace people like that. not the same as some dyke wearing a crew cut and Dickies because she likes being mistaken for a twelve year old boy. Anyway, trans people have been around for as long as humans have. the ability to actually embody the other sex has not, though it does not surprise me that so many are taking advantage of that now.Why shouldn't we?

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  90. It's interesting and telling that you think the only option besides being a ftm if you're not a girly girl is being a 'dyke' with a crew cut and Dickies. This is the simplified adolescent thinking that is powering this surge of misguided medically-enslaved young women.

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  91. Embodying the other sex? rolling eyes
    We need lesbians like Kate Moennig back in the public eye

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  92. I haven't seen any evidence that "trans people have been around as long as humans have." We have seen gay people throughout history. The history of trans is well documented, since it's only been around about 100 years.
    Looking at other cultures vastly different from the western one (who came up with trans in the first place and where the trans trend is occuring)and appropriating bits of it to explain yourself is risky at best.

    You can mimick the opposite sex, but not embody it.

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  93. i think when people mean when they say that 'trans' has been aroumd forever is people whose behavior and looks dom't match with the standard of their sex
    labelling it as 'trans' and taking steps to actually try to 'become' the opposite sex is relatively new
    if non-conforming kids were truly embraced and lauded, modern 'transsexualism' would not be necessary

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  94. I think when they say "trans has been around forever" it's a crock, and they just say that to counter the fact that it's Gay people who have been around forever.

    In the Middle Ages in Europe for instance, you had Lesbian couples where one partner would dress,cut hair and even work as a man, but that was for safety reasons. In the privacy of their homes they were happy to be women together.

    This whole trans concept is new, and I don't think nonconforming people will ever be embraced by their society, that's the root of why trans want to conform/belong.

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  95. "the ability to actually embody the other sex "

    And we get told off for 'biological determinism"!

    I think we have conflicting definitions of biological determinism going on here.

    1) Biology ISN'T destiny, just because I have bits A and B shouldn't effect my life chances as a human being (except where stuff like reproduction comes in etc).

    2) Biology isn't destiny because you can CHANGE it...............Except biology still has to fit yer brain......


    You CAN'T embody the sex you're not, you can just create the surface appearance of the other sex. Even a functional penetrating-people organ with nifty erectile implants attached at roughly the right place ISN'T the full male organ set (as someone pointed out before, if it is body-map related, why don't transmen get all misty-eyed over their lack of a prostate, since in sensation terms, seems to be quite important to many men I know!). Ditto, a surgically constructed fuck-hole isn't a vagina...........

    Superficial social signals (clothes hairstyle), superficial appearance (beard, voice, hair, breasts, muscles), and superficial elements of functionality (pee standing up, erectile, fuckable etc). And they think THAT embodies those of us who were BORN that particular sex.

    Packaging may be different, but the contents of the box are pretty much the same.

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  96. Let's face it, trans as a concept only really exists BECAUSE we have the medical tools (surgery, hormones) to bring about enough superficial change that people can talk about 'embodying' the other sex, and transitioning.

    Without that, it would just be make-believe, pretending to be a man by wearing male clothing etc etc, and conforming to those totally arbitrary SOCIAL conventions.

    Now instead, we have meat-suits rather than just clothes, but the 'pretend' aspect is still there.

    Same for transabled, although we could amputate limbs rather earlier than we could attempt a 'sex-change'.

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  97. For all of you saying you can't be female/ male brain....

    http://www.brainfitnessforlife.com/brain-anatomy-and-imaging/9-differences-between-the-male-and-female-brain/

    Can't really argue with science.

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  98. The thing is, if women have the 'male' style of brain, it would suggest that women can have different types of brains, not that they are actually men.

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  99. "The thing is, if women have the 'male' style of brain, it would suggest that women can have different types of brains, not that they are actually men."

    Rinse and repeat!

    I suspect that like height, you could draw two bell curves for male and female cortex size (or whatever area of the brain it is) and there would be a considerable overlap. Being 5"10 doesn't make me a man even though I fall closer to the male mean than the female.

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  100. Yep, overlap and statistical differences between overlapping distributions is the rule in brains.

    Fer instance, I'm fairly good at maths (Masters in it from Cambridge), which is beyond many men, but that doesn't make me a man. Language, spatial reasoning etc, recent research shows that social conditioning plays a big role.

    Ditto emotions and all that stuff -- women are taught they're supposed to be good at all that, but some are and some aren't, ditto for men.

    Brains are plastic and develop as we grow, and how we develop depends on our environment -- such as the social expectations placed on us. So girls think of maths and science as 'boys subjects', and surprise, surprise, don't do as well on tests.

    Kind of the 'women can't read maps' theory of transsexualism.............

    P.S I'm a scientist, and science is one long continuing argument..........

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  101. i will NEVER understand how any scientist can make the leap from studying apparent brain differences to the magical belief that those brains were mixed up by god or something and popped into the wrong bodies

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  102. "i will NEVER understand how any scientist can make the leap.." I don;t think many of them do, they're just interested in differences.

    Plus most medics work within society as it IS, and what the is the best thing they can do for their patients now -- they're not interested in the political dimension, or in pointing out the effects of our current patriarchal system.

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  103. "Kind of the 'women can't read maps' theory of transsexualism............."

    And if they can read maps, the evo-psychs will always create a loophole to try and keep their gender superstitions watertight. Women can use their emotional auras to read maps or something.

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  104. MNDR

    I never say this, but LOL!

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