Identity Cannot be Bought or Sold

There seems to be some serious lack in comprehending the complete difference between gay/lesbian identity and trans identity coming from many in the trans community. To clarify: When you require the male medical machine to establish your identity, there is NO legitimacy!

The male medical machine has a LONG continued history of harming gays and lesbians. The male medical machine has a LONG continued history of trying to remove/alter our homosexuality/lesbianism from us. It has tried confining us to mental asylums, it has tried using a multitude of different drugs on us, it has tried removing internal organs from us, it has tried raping us, it has tried  burning us alive at the stake, it has tried torturing us, it has electrocuted ever fiber of our beings and used countless other barbarities, all to no avail. Our gay and lesbian identities remain!

The trans identity however was and continues to be created and upheld by the male medical machine. The trans identity in ALL its manifestations is 1000% completely reliant on the male medical machine. Yes, the very same male medical machine that has worked so hard to destroy us, our identities, our lives, our loves! I reiterate: When you require the male medical machine to establish your identity, there is NO legitimacy!


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  1. Makes sense to me. If you *are* naturally a certain way, then it follows that you wouldn't need alterations to *be* that way. You would simply be yourself, as you are. No removal of healthy body parts required, no plastic surgery, no synthetic hormones needed. Just be your natural self.

  2. Ur trans before surgery or hormones and not all trans people choose to take that route, NEXT.

  3. Were that true, there would be no desire by any male or female to "transition".


  4. If it wasn't true there wouldn't be any desire to transition.
    You have to have those feelings to consider it in the first place, and again, many do not. This is your most pathetic argument yet lol.

  5. Having self hatred, again does NOT make you trans. ONLY the MMM can do that. The "pathetic" thing is neither the self hater or the MMM seeks to figure out what informs the self hate.


  6. "Having self hatred, again does NOT make you trans" I agree.

    "ONLY the MMM can do that"
    nope, many live as the opposite gender without medical treatment, do i really have to repeat this? has it really not sunk in yet?

    Once again, self hate doesn't = trans, but trans most definitely exists without medical treatment.

    Anyway I'm off to bed.
    Goodnight toots.

  7. "Passing" doesnt make you the "opposite" sex. I, like many Butches have "passed" as male from a very early age, that doesnt make us any less female and it certainly doesnt make us male, let alone "trans".

    Again, ONLY drugs can make you trans.


  8. "nope, many live as the opposite gender without medical treatment"

    Living as the opposite gender doesn't make you trans either, as Dirt pointed out, and despite trans attempts to co-opt every female historical figure that passed as a man in order to do what they COULD NOT if they were identified as a woman.

    Of course, I should point out that LIVING as the opposite gender either means -- can pass as a biological male in certain circumstances (some can do, some can't, most people can be fooled quite easily on casual acquaintance), OR means that the person concerned has some fairly binary rules as to what LIVING as a male/man means. If we didn't HAVE gender, then we wouldn't have LIVING as the opposite gender (or even the concept of OPPOSITE gender, or it this yet another trans conflation of sex with gender, gender roles are GOOD because it means you can have a go at doing them even if you're not actually male, blah blah blah......).

    In short, I don't want ANYONE to live as a male/man, whether male or female, because living as a man is a pretty objectionable role that society has created. Ditto living as a woman, in terms of what society expects of women.

    Wanting to escape the narrow roles that society has pushed us into doesn't make you trans, and saying that it DOES and that living as a man makes sense MEANs that you really do believe that it is right and natural that people who either are male or identify as male should live in a specific, different way to the rest of us human beings.

    Or its just a rather odd case of false advertising -- you live in a way that causes people to confuse you with other human beings who are actually advertising the fact that they have a penis hence are able to impregnate the female of the species, yet when push comes to shove (as it were, sorry for the double entendre!), you'll be found wanting.

    Living as the opposite gender and pointing out that is what you are doing makes a mockery of the concept of the opposite gender -- living as the opposite gender and hiding just reinforces the very concept of gender that I'm trying to get away from.

  9. If it weren't for folks insisting on the escential 'woman-ness' of people born female, then I think there'd be less pressure to medically transition. Way to uphold that escentialism Dirt et al.

  10. If women werent shamed for our very nature, there would be no desire to escape femaleness, of which there is absolutely nothing wrong with.


  11. didnt say living as the opposite gender made you trans, i didn't bother to read the rest of your lecture since you failed at line 1.
    lol morons.

  12. "If it weren't for folks insisting on the escential 'woman-ness' of people born female, then I think there'd be less pressure to medically transition. Way to uphold that escentialism Dirt et al."

    Would help your argument if you could SPELL -- essentialism, I think you'll find.

    Still doesn't help with the false advertising point about a biological female living as the 'opposite' gender. You either think men and women SHOULD live differently based on 'gender' (whatever that supposedly IS), or you think faking it is okay (acting/living as a biomale when you haven't got the essentials that constitute a biomale for 99.9% of biomales).

    Okay, women have wombs and periods, and have to worry about getting pregnant when having sex with someone of the opposite sex, there are always going to be differences based on biological sex and organs where appropriate -- it's whether you think what biological differences there may be should matter the rest of the time, to constitute 'living as a female' --I don't think they should, and where they DO matter, you can't fake it by having your dick lopped off or inverted.

    Essential woman-ness, in our society, as well as the plain biological stuff above, also means having been raised as female with all that entails, and living as a female in the patriarchy, all of which you can't fake by putting on a dress and having surgery, however many years you may 'live as a woman' and however well you think you pass. And ditto for men -- you may acquire some male privilege if you pass well emough, but you still don't have the male biology, the experience of being raised with that biology, and the experience of being raised with the sense of expectation that males are raised with.

    As far as I can see, this view of men/women and male/female is based on plain ole facts of biology and plain ole day-to-day experience since birth -- that's not something you can gain or loose by hormones/surgery or wishful thinking (I identify as a man, i live as a man, therefore I am a man). I AM a man (biology and all your experience to date to the contrary) just doesn't cut it. You're stuck with the rest of us women, however much you reject or deny it.........

  13. This arguemnt fails to take into consideration those people who did live what could be deemed transgender lives before the medical revolution.
    Also those people like the sworn virgins who are considered men in their culture and the fafafini of Samoa.

    What puzzles me, is the large number of transgender we have in our society recently.
    Historically the amount of trans type people in our culture is so small that they stick out like a sore thumb in the history books.
    Now we have so many transgenders that it seems there is one in every neighborhood. Two in mine. (I am piggybacking thier wifi to post this. Think they would be pissed?)

    When we look at other cultures (other than Thailand) the incidence of transgender type people is very small.
    Most of the transgender types in other cultures do not even desire western surgical techniques.
    They are perfectly happy to be masculine women and feminine men.

    It is the culture that we live in that despises women who are butch and men who are fem. Without this hatred, there is no need to transition. Without this culture of hatred there is no need for any of the medical interventions that the transgender 'needs'.

    Seems to me that the transgender is a victim of society and hatred of self for violating gender norms of the society.

    Unfortunatly in our culture we weed out the butch female and the fem male. Butch women are to close to men and must be changed into men and the fem male is to close to being a woman for anyones comfort and they must be changed into women.
    Goddess created these people for a reason. When we excise these people from our culture we loose a part of our collective soul.

    The issue at hand however does not seem resolvable at this time. Perhaps in the future our culture will change enough so that people will be willing to listen to the message you are championing.

  14. You make some good points.

  15. "This arguemnt fails to take into consideration those people who did live what could be deemed transgender lives before the medical revolution."
    I guess I'm saying in the past, we don't know, especialy since there were so many other reasons why a woman then might have wanted to live as a man.

    Which, if we are open to learn lessons from history, suggests many of the same processes might be operating now.

    But I think the examples from other cultures are particularly interesting -- if societies make some other options available, some people take those, it doesn 't seem to be so much the binary we seem to be falling into in the west.

  16. I never thought about it this way before. The more I consider this point of view, the more I agree with it. For me, I am happy with the way I was born. I like being female. I also like other females.
    That's why when my partner decided to transition, I decided I needed to leave. I don't want a man! That's gross to me. It's funny, because she told me I really wanted to be with a man several months before she told me that she wanted to be a man herself.
    If I were thinking about transitioning, reading this would make me ask myself if I wasn't being influenced by society to change my outer appearance with what would make it easier for society to deal with.
    In my opinion, natural is better. Who wanks fake boobs when you can have real ones? Why have a fake penis that wont ever do what a real penis does? I would not want to risk never having an orgasm again just to change my genitalia.
    I mean, even if I wanted a penis really bad, knowing that it won't work like a penis, and knowing I might not be able to orgasm ever again is just one of the risks to the surgery? No way! I like orgasms! And penises are, um, gross to me. So, no thank you!


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