Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, October 9, 2011

Gender doesnt equal Sex unless you are Trans and Say it Does

Australia is now one of a growing number of countries to relax the rules on surgical requirements to determine gender. 

According to the trans mouthpiece, gender is whats between your ears and sex is whats between your legs and since so many transmen hack off their breast, sex too seems to be whats between your arms. Yet more and more trans groups are working to alter laws to have sex markers changed simply because they claim their gender is different. The sex of those in any state of transition NEVER changes and NEVER will. So claiming their "gender" is opposite their sex, still should in no way affect sex markers on any legal level.

That aside, we are getting into VERY disturbing AND dangerous territory when countries and states of countries are changing sex (body) marker indicators when the issue is with gender (mental construct). By allowing gender (mental delusion) to replace sex (core reality) would legally give males (rapists/pedophiles) complete access to any private female space simply by legally changing their gender (mental) which will legally change their sex marker to female! As if girls and adult females dont already have enough to worry about in our pro-rapist culture.

If as the trans community claims, transition is about feeling better in your own skin, then there really is no need to change sex markers, especially given the excessive fluidity extolling the queer/trans community is notorious for. For instance in the case of transmen, who go on and on about how much they love women, even love the female form, claim they just want their female form to look "male". Okay, so cosmetically alter your female form to appear male, then why the need for the name changes, the pronoun changes, the legal sex change???

What it all boils down to is the trans mind needing every possible external SEX indicator to match their created mental identity (created for a slew of reasons) for their created identity's very survival. Laws that affect every male and female are being altered strictly to support the self created identity of a small group of mentally ill people. And the thing is, as you read here in the multitudinous comments by trans mind after trans mind, even when all the external signs point to one sex, the trans mind still isnt happy. The internal war between their core identity and their self created identity doesnt end with an F or an M on their legal ID's, it doesnt end until they end the trans charade.

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38 comments:

  1. Trans people want their sex markers changed because its not very nice to go on holidays/go into a pub/do anything involving showing ID when you look like an M but your ID says F. Thats obvious.

    Do you ask for ID at your womens only spaces? Because plently of Transgirls pass enough that they could walk in and no one would know anything. If you saw this girl walk in http://www.google.ie/search?q=kim+petras&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
    would you say "show us your ID?". I think Transgirls should be allowed into womens only spaces and if you want to give her a background check then do so. And if she does something out of order then kick her out just like anyone else.

    Because Transmen and Transwomen want the same gender markers/pronouns as a person who is born the gender we feel we are.

    Its not for the identitys survival. My identity survives now and I'm pre everything. If I got chest surgery and mones and I couldn't get my gender markers change, it would be annoying but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

    This blog is more ridiculous than usual Dirt.
    Also got a date for my chest surgery *dances*

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  2. "The Etch said...
    Trans people want their sex markers changed because its not very nice to go on holidays/go into a pub/do anything involving showing ID when you look like an M but your ID says F. Thats obvious."

    That's funny, women who are mistaken for male do this all the time, for their entire lives.
    You post on a butch woman's blog "schooling" her on what the experience of being female is like? And how "not very nice" it is? And how "obvious"?
    You are really out of line here, and frankly, you sound like a coward.

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  3. How am I a coward?

    If you identify as female and it says female on your ID then thats good for them. I don't identify as female, I identify as male so having my gender markers changed so they reflect my identity is just bloody common sense.

    I get where you're coming from. I meant more like

    Transpeople want their sex markers changed because its not nice to go on holidays/go into a pub/ do anything involving showing ID when you are a guy and your ID says female.

    I meant its obvious why I want my gender markers changed. And its not very nice for your ID to not be the same as your identity.

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  4. I agree with The Etch on this. My Gender marker is not yet changed and neither is my name. I don't have a lot of time after work to get all the paperwork done that I need done. Work will be slowing down some after the New Year so I will do it then. Same as my top surgery. I will get it done then.

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  5. If as the trans community claims, transition is about feeling better in your own skin, then there really is no need to change sex markers, especially given the excessive fluidity extolling the queer/trans community is notorious for. For instance in the case of transmen, who go on and on about how much they love women, even love the female form, claim they just want their female form to look "male". Okay, so cosmetically alter your female form to appear male, then why the need for the name changes, the pronoun changes, the legal sex change???

    That was a really excellent point, thank you. If the problem is their body parts, then hey changing their body parts should be all they need to do.

    What's wrong with a guy named Bob walking around with silicon breast implants if that turns him on or makes him feel whole? Well come to find out the problem isn't his biological sex, after all. The problem is exactly as they said the first time, the problem is between their ears. They need every little bit of themselves to be read by other people as his target sex.

    This is as much, if not more so, a situation where they need an internal essence to be validated by other people in order for them to feel whole. Frankly, that doesn't sound like any human right I've every heard about. It sounds more like a mental illness.

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  6. The problem is exactly as they said the first time, the problem is between their ears. They need every little bit of themselves to be read by other people as his target sex.

    It's a mental illness which needs an audience.

    I have heard of such a thing before... that's really crazy.

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  7. "I have never heard" posted too soon!

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  8. and it creeps me out that they're inflicting this fantasy on me, without my consent. It's like a flasher in the subway.

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  9. I still don't understand the point of having sex or gender markers on IDs at all. It's not like they actually do (or should) restrict access to services based upon it, and, really, unless you're checking in someone's pants, it's not super useful in helping identify who you're talking to.

    It made more sense before photography was being used for identification purposes. I think the way that it operates is antiquated, and, as it was pointed out by folks from a variety of perspectives here, creates moments of gender regulation, policing, 'reading' etc that are unnecessary.

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  10. I had so many problems before I had my gender marker changed and my socialsecuritynumber.
    Why? Because I was not could not vote for one thing, because they said I used a fake ID, becaus I was male in there eyes but my ID said "female".
    And alot of thing like this happend to me, and it fucking sucked. So for that reason was it importent to me to have it changed.

    It really had nothing to do to make me feel more like a man or anything. Because I dont care if the world thinks I'm a man or not, because I know I'm one and that's good enough for me.
    But I had to change my gender marker and everything to make life esaier to live.

    And another thing all transpeople dont believe in all the "queer-bs". I really hate queer-theory and thing like that, and I'm not a part of "the trans community".

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  11. @JerryBomb "I still don't understand the point of having sex or gender markers on IDs at all."

    If you are genuinely interested in understanding the issue here is a good place to start:
    http://sexnotgender.wordpress.com/

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  12. @Anon - I don't think you actually read my comment. There is no argument at that blog for the inclusion of "F" or "M" tags on folks identification cards.

    @Nicolas - Agreed.

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  13. I've been thinking about transitioning only because I want my body to look male, I have no problem with being female. The problem is that society won't accept me being female with a male body. So I guess I'm going to have to deal with my breast's and hips :/. You have to think about that dirt. Society is not gender fluid and trans people a forced to change their markers if they want to have any type of "normalcy" to their lives.

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  14. "The problem is that society won't accept me being female with a male body."

    So try and change society then, rather than hiding behind a fake ID! Because society will never accept a female in a male-looking body unless such females are willing to stand up and say so.

    Why this craving for 'normality'? If you think society is too narrow in its views, then stand up and say so, just like all the butch lesbians who were willing to do it. Trying to pass as a man changes nothing, hiding behind a M on your ID changes nothing.

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  15. " I don't identify as female, I identify as male so having my gender markers changed so they reflect my identity is just bloody common sense. "

    No it doesn't. SEX on ID is just a biological fact, relevant to health care etc. It's not about identity. So, some biological females look male? Why not be proud of it, and demand that your ID reflects that.

    Why this urge to HIDE, that just perpetuates the system that says females look like this, males look like that, and act accordingly. Or it is just that trans people think the whole sex roles/gender roles appearance system is FINE as it is?

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  16. BadDyke - I am not a butch woman, I am a Transman. I want my gender markers changed so that I don't face issues when I use my ID.

    I'm not a woman (except biologically so) so why should I keep my ID as female and be male, have no sociatal markers to say female and just needlessly confuse the shit out of people.

    If you think that I should go out and campaign so that everyone turns around one day and goes "Bah! there is no gender, no sociatal markers, lets just presume everyone is an it" then you're the delusional one. That is never going to happen.
    Stereotypes suck but when the majority of the people in this world don't even see the point of changing them, then what can we do?

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  17. Bad Dyke I never said I wanted to pass as a man. And yes I agree with you about normality and changing what is normal and acceptable by society's standards, but let'd be realistic, I'm only one person. It's going to take more than me and about 20 + years for it to be ok for some one to do what I want to do.

    Thanks

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  18. "JerryBomb said...
    @Anon - I don't think you actually read my comment. There is no argument at that blog for the inclusion of "F" or "M" tags on folks identification cards."

    That's the subject of the entire blog. Duh.

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  19. "Stereotypes suck but when the majority of the people in this world don't even see the point of changing them, then what can we do?"

    Sweet Jesus. That is the most weak lazy thing I have ever heard. Where would all the social justice movements in the world be today if people had the same attitudes as you.

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  20. You have more faith in humankind than I. There is a difference between fighting for something that can easily be argued as the right thing to do, Such as gay rights.

    But the person above who said "that'll take over 20 years and I'm only one person" is right.

    The majority of people don't see the problem with defining male and female by how they are dressed/ what they do.

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  21. "just needlessly confuse the shit out of people. "

    As I thought, trans is ALL about upholding the current views about sex and gender and appearance!

    " then you're the delusional one. That is never going to happen.
    Stereotypes suck but when the majority of the people in this world don't even see the point of changing them, then what can we do?"

    NEVER is a long time. People used to say people would never change their views on gay people, yet they have (somewhat), and I'm now married (okay, civil partnership, but near as dammit!).

    things CHANGED because enough people stood up and demanded that they be changed. Said, yes I'm gay, so why can't I get married? Yes, I'm female, but why should I have to look 'like a woman'.

    God, this attitude is so short-sigthed and defeatist! It also disrespects all of those people who fought for change, from the suffragettes to the civil rights movements in the Us, who said -- this society isn't good enough.

    And what is it we hear from trans people like yourself -- it's too hard, will take too long, I just want to HIDE let someone else fight those battles I just want to pass as a guy and have M stamped on my ID............

    "so that I don't face issues when I use my ID." cowardly and defeatist, as well as misogynistic, to be totally frank.

    "Because plently of Transgirls pass enough that they could walk in and no one would know anything." nonsense. enough of us have met enough trans people to know the vocal mannerisms they are taught. frankly, it ain't that hard to tell the difference between a real woman, and a man trying to act like a woman, even if that is a man who thinks he has a female brain.

    Been there many times, as a matter of fact, we could all spot the M2T claiming to be lesbians.

    You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

    Anyway, in summary says that trans people have no business being in the LGB whatever crowd, because we have lesbians fighting for their right to be visible lesbians, not masquerading as a straight couple like Chaz Bono, lesbians who are saying -- yes, you may think I look like a man cos I wear mens clothes, but that's just because your own views on gender are so narrow. Gay men who are saying, yes, my boyfriend may wear a dress, but that doesn't make him any less of a man, or any less of a gay man.

    Trans folk on here just want to hide out with the straight men, so let them and keep them out of the lesbian and gay community, we don't need these cowards.

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  22. "There is a difference between fighting for something that can easily be argued as the right thing to do, Such as gay rights. "

    O for fucks sake, go learn some gay history!

    "The majority of people don't see the problem with defining male and female by how they are dressed/ what they do."

    Sorry, if you agree with this, you're the enemy (or at least allied with them), simple as that.

    God the follies of youth -- twenty years and I'm only one person, so I won't even TRY.

    where do you think civil rights, and gay rights, and womens rights came from? Because enough people were brave enough to fight for them, even if they thought they wouldn't see full rights in their lifetime, they fought anyway.

    It's like a person of black descent who could pass as white saying -- never mind that, I can pass, so the rest of you can stay at the back of the bus, I'm not sticking my head above the parapet.

    Some of us fight because it's the only right and noble thing to do, whether it will take ten years, or a century.

    The me, me, me generation (or trans as being very self-centered) and immediate gratification........

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  23. You're right BadDyke, I'm sorry.

    I agree with you that it needs to be changed, I wish people looked at me and when I said I was a guy, they didn't look at me like I had two heads. I wish society could view me as what I am but alas that is not the society we live in.

    But I don't know how to change peoples opinions, I really don't, My Grandmother for example doesn't know I'm trans and she has been at me for years now about me dressing the way I do because according to her "I look like a lesbian". And I wish I could change her mind on that but.. if wishes were poppies we'd all be dreaming.

    I'm not a coward. I'm not someone who sits on their ass ans says "oh thats horrible" while drinking my tea. I've been at so many protests the last few years for Animal Rights Organisations because coursing and fox hunting is still legal in my country. You know what happened? I got arrested for tresspassing...
    I still protest mind.

    Oh and I meant gay rights is obviously the right thing in regards to my country, I know Americas fucked up and christian but I'm from Europe. My country has a gay man running for President.

    Oh and congratulations BadDyke. On the marriage.

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  24. "I wish people looked at me and when I said I was a guy, they didn't look at me like I had two heads."

    Well, I'm afraid i'd have to agree with them on that one (although not about the two heads!), because it doesn't make sense to ME -- what really is there about being a guy to BE unless it is biological sex, because I don't believe in innate gender and the 'male brain' stuff. That's why we are always going to disagree on this. I can understand females who feel their body is wrong, I can understand females who would like to pass as a man, or be treated like a man, but the biological reality remains, however mnay hormones you take, or however much surgery you have, that you'll always be female.

    I'm just saying there are other possible reasons for feeling the way you do other than having a 'male brain', and I think what Dirt is saying is that there are other possibilities other than surgery and hormones, and 'being a man'.

    The problem , BTW with changing sex on IDs isn't just to make life inconvenient for people. Better to ask, WHY do we need it on ID in the first place, your doctor needs to know, but why really does anyone else unless you choose to share it with them? Frankly, I think we should remove all sex/gender questions from application forms etc, because if we are really serious about equal opportunites, then why does an employer need to know your sex before they call you for interview, or even afterwards if it isn't relevant? Okay, maybe let personnel have it, as we do here for gay/straight, because then they can at least monitor whether or not they have gay employees (and if not, why not), but anything else, no ones business. We had a M2T at where I work, he presented as female, no one apart from me guessed he might be trans, and I didn't say anything to anybody (none of my business). Yet he still left because he thought people were talking about him. No one was. I said she at work, because as I said, none of my business how someone dressed, what name they used, as long as they did the job. If he didn't want people to know, I wasn't going to tell them. He obviously passed, except as someone who has known quite a few trans people, I spotted the taught verbal mannerisms and vocal mannerisms. The sraight people at work had no idea, just as many of them wouldn't have spotted the people I knew who were obviously gay but not out.

    I go out and about, sometimes get taken for a guy, hard to explain when you don't speak the language, but as long as I don't get frisked at the airport by a bloke, I just get over it. Just says to me how daft most people are in that a few very simple things like how you dress or shaving your head is enough for them to take me for a bloke.

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  25. Sex markers are used for data collection. So that an employer that favors hiring males over females can be prosecuted for example.
    So that females receive equal funding for sports programs.
    So that sex-based income disparities can be tracked.
    So that female health needs are equally represented.
    Etc Etc
    Erasing the sex marker won't erase sex-based discrimination. It will only invisibilize it and make it worse.

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  26. More reasons why I love living in Australia. Also dirt you are an intolerant troll, with love from Australia.

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  27. "Do you have any idea how it feels to be that age and feel so left behind, unhappy, alone because all the boys are getting facial hair and deeper voices and thats all you want? Its seriously traumatic."

    I was more concerned about why they got more attention, got their career choices taken seriously etc, JUST because they were male.

    Left behind, unhappy etc -- do you KNOW any lesbians, have you talked to any of them as to what it felt like growing up as a lesbian? Or any ambitious women, to be totally frank -- boys who liked physics and maths, no problem, whereas I got asked all the time why I liked boys subjects! Facial hair and tone of voice were trivial, I just wanted to know WHY their aspirations were taken seriously, whereas they seemed to think that girls would just grow up and have babies, so no point taking seriously their aspirations to be scientists.......

    I really don't know what world you were brought up in, but you don't seem to know anything much about womens rights, or gay rights, perhaps because your solution to all this hassle was to pretend to be one of them, because that is what it looks like to me!

    I didn't want to BE one of them, I just wanted the privilege they got from being male -- seems you want that too, just in a different way.

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  28. >they seemed to think that girls would just grow up and have babies, so no point taking seriously their aspirations to be scientists.......

    I grew up in the 90's and thats not the way it was for me.

    >Left behind, unhappy etc -- do you KNOW any lesbians, have you talked to any of them as to what it felt like growing up as a lesbian?

    I was using examples of my own feelings in relation to boy's growing up and me not growing up (I know I did but you know what I mean). I do have lesbian friends, yes. Most of them had happy childhoods and were accepted when they came out, expect for one girl who's parents are fundamentalist christians.


    >I really don't know what world you were brought up in, but you don't seem to know anything much about womens rights, or gay rights

    I know more about gay rights than I know about womens rights but I know a fair bit about both.

    Would you mind reading the context in which I say things and not taking everything general?

    These are statistics in my country for the last exam you take in High School. girls omen outpreform boys in all subjects. http://www.examinations.ie/statistics/statistics_2005/LC_Results_Higher_Level_by_gender.pdf

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  29. "I grew up in the 90's and thats not the way it was for me. " Sorry, I'm am lecturer at a university, and it still is pretty much the same ole kind of thing -- the higher up the academic ladder you go, the fewer women. Biology about 60 odd percent women, and damn few women in computer science. The science subjects are still heavily skewed by sex, and the higher grades all dominated by men.

    "I know more about gay rights"

    This was the quote that got my goat:

    "There is a difference between fighting for something that can easily be argued as the right thing to do, Such as gay rights."

    EASILY? Really? Because as far as most people were concerned at the time, homosexuals were dangerous sexual perverts who were out to convert their children. And some still do think that. Even here in the UK, not that many years ago, we had politicians coming out with the same stuff, when it came to reducing the age of consent for gay men from 21 to 16.

    It was NEVER easy, because many people did (and many still do) view homosexuality as profoundly abnormal, unnatural, disgusting etc etc. Even when it was made not illegal for males here in the UK, the argument used as far as I know WASN'T equal rights (god they'd have had a fit at that!), but that making it illegal for those disgusting enough to want to do it was a blackmailers charters. The idea seemed to be if some adult people really want to do such dusgusting things, then let them as long as they do it in the privacy of their own homes.

    It was FAR from easy as regards gay rights, and still isn't.

    As regards girls in schools -- I KNOW they outperform boys at school. so why is that advantage LOST as you go through degree level and above? We still have the pay gap between men and women, so we still earn less, no matter the fact that we're winning at school level.

    "Most of them had happy childhoods and were accepted when they came out.." Well, you must live in some sort of paradise, because it still isn't the norm over here! And let's not get into the gay bullying in schools issue...........

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  30. And out of that homophobia sprang transition.

    dirt

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  31. I only live across the sea from you actually. Hello from Ireland.

    >The science subjects are still heavily skewed by sex, and the higher grades all dominated by men.

    I am aware of that but how is that sexism? Its male dominated, thats true. But thats not because its seen as a boys only subject. Generally what girls say about science is "that they just don't like it" or "find it difficult/boring". I never found that when I was doing science in my first few years of school that it was male orientated. I enjoyed some aspects of science but generally I couldn't do it at all (mainly because of dyscalculia).
    If you want to see sex segregation in action, what about home economics classes? A friend of mine who is male wanted to do Home Ec because he loved cooking and the amount of teasing and bullying he got from his peers made him drop out. From what I've seen, in schools, females can do any subject they like but males feel they can't do subjects seen as feminine.
    I am aware also that this links into women seen as lesser so being called a girl or doing feminine things and then been called a girl is seen as the ultimate insult to men.

    > easily be argued as the right thing to do

    The statistics are there. The science is there to back up the view that equal rights from LGB folks is the right thing to do. What I meant was that explaining to anyone about gender/gender stereotyping is incredibly difficult to explain especially considering you want everyone to get rid of gender markers on ID's/The view that some items of clothing and things are male or female. You want people to get rid of every single view they have about gender that isn't based on biology. Its complicated.

    >We still have the pay gap between men and women, so we still earn less, no matter the fact that we're winning at school level.

    This is why I support your idea of gender markers being taken off of job applications. The main reason people don't hire women for higher paying jobs is because of paid maternity leave.. Which is just ridiculous.


    "Most of them had happy childhoods and were accepted when they came out.." Well, you must live in some sort of paradise, because it still isn't the norm over here! And let's not get into the gay bullying in schools issue

    Well most gay people I know when they came out to their families and friends, were accepted. In the wider spectrum, I'm not sure if in school they were bullied.
    I know that I got hassle in school for it but I was in a very catholic school. Got with a girl at a gig and she told her friends that I was lying about her (never said a word to anyone) and they all tried to beat me up after school. Reported it to my principle and I got suspended and they didn't...

    But the other all girls school in my town, the principle is a lesbian. Open to the whole school.

    Ireland has issues with some schools because they're mainly funded or partly funded by the catholic church but all in all, its not too bad. America's much worse.

    I didn't think England was as bad as you say it is. Is it really that bad?

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  32. "I am aware of that but how is that sexism? Its male dominated, thats true. But thats not because its seen as a boys only subject."

    Why do you think this is? Either female brains are inherently worse at science and maths, or something else is going on!

    As regards cooking, how many top chefs are male? How many female? In fact, can you name a single TV female chef? (apart from Delia!)

    "The statistics are there. The science is there to back up the view that equal rights from LGB folks is the right thing to do."

    what science? We don't have a gay gene, so you have to make the much harder argument that being gay, even if it is a choice, is okay.

    "I didn't think England was as bad as you say it is. Is it really that bad?"

    According to Stonewall, 2/3 of LGB kids experienced bullying, and research also says homophobic bullying is second most common cause of bullying after weight issues. So, if like me you're a fat dyke, you got it both ways!

    Most gay people I know weren't accepted by their families when they came out, and my own father never knew. I have gay male friends who were thrown out by their parents when they came out, families who refuse to invite gay partners of family members to events, people who refused to come to my civil partnership, including members of my own family.

    after all, it was only a few years ago when discrimination at work on the grounds of sexual orientation was made illegal, and even more recent where discriminating in terms of goods and services (like hotel rooms) was made illegal -- yet we still have cases of gay couples being refused a double bed!

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  33. "Hello from Ireland." where homosexuality was only decriminalized in 1993, and gay couples still can't adopt.

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  34. Blah blah blah. Once you begin passing as male, you are immediately faced with all the bullshit that comes along with being male. If you don't see that there is bullshit on both sides, then you are full of shit. If you want your body how you want it, go for it. Only a fool would claim that only privilege attends transitioning from female to male. That's the main reason any anti-trans argument on this blog has no credence.

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  35. >where homosexuality was only decriminalized in 1993, and gay couples still can't adopt.

    I am well aware.The law of consent in Ireland is the same for Gay and Straight couples and we have taken great leaps forward.

    The reason gay couples can't adopt is because when we change our constitution, we need to have a referendum.
    Family Law in Ireland isn't homophobic, its just generally shit.
    Eventually that'll be sorted once the budget comes out and we sort ourselves out a little bit. We were meant to have a referendum before the economic crisis but then we had to sell ourselves to Europe. FF got kicked out and FG got put in. Give us a chance will you.

    David Norris is running for president and hes openly gay and until recently he was top of the poles

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  36. "If you think Irelands a homophobic place then think about that."

    O come one! Can you REALLY be that short-sighted? A few laws in place, so everything in the garden is rosey? Yeah, and we've got race discrimination laws, so racism is also extinct? And sexism?

    And let's not mention Ireland and womens reproductive rights.

    I WASN'T having a go at Ireland specifically, just pointing out that a few laws and a few spangly pride marches doesn't mean that homophobia has been eliminated -- in Ireland or anywhere else.

    Nor does decriminalization in 1993 explain exactly how gay kids being raised in the 90s NEVER experienced homophobic bullying..............

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  37. Actually, I think this is just another version of:

    Transgender Trope #7- Society has no influence over my gender identity

    along the lines of -- it can't be internalized homophobia because where I live isn't homophobic...........

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  38. Stereotypes suck but when the majority of the people in this world don't even see the point of changing them, then what can we do?

    50 years ago in the US, there were places where women could be arrested for wearing a suit, not to mention refused entry from public places like restaurants. A hundred years ago in the US it was controversial for women to have short hair. Today, an average straight woman with short hair can wear a pantsuit and work as a programmer or biologist or stockbroker and not even raise an eyebrow.

    How did things change? First of all, what counts as a marker of "female" or "male" changes over time and space, and second of all, feminist activism decreased social stereotyping.

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