Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, September 4, 2011

I aways FELT like a Boy

As a female, how do you "feel like a boy or man"(explain)?

What occurs within you when do not feel like a female?

What does it mean not to feel like a female?

Is there a difference in feeling like a female and feeling like a girl/woman?

dirt
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121 comments:

  1. Ok im going to jump in at the deep end.
    As a "trans" Person, i find this the hardest to explain, it is very difficult to explain a feeling. It isn't a matter of "i want to wear boys cloths and do boys things" its more internal than that. again, it is very difficult to explain,
    Although I've had these feelings for a long time, it only really became an issue when i became sexually aware, My anatomy never really fit with what i felt i should be doing with it. I still have no desire of being penetrated vaginally, so its kind of put me off of having sex. I would consider myself straight, as i have a vagina and am attracted to penis's *shruggs*
    I do not believe sex is taught, it is a natural instinct, and we don't learn to use what we have got, it comes naturally. I used to breed dogs, and my bitch knew instinctively how to act and stand and the dog knew, instinctively how to mount. This instinct is in our brains not our pants. So I found the whole sexual intercourse thing really confusing as my anatomy didn't match my instincts.
    Although that isn't the only example,it is the easiest to describe, Probably because it is more on the physical side. though i'm sure you will come up with some argument about how sex isn't instinctive and we are taught how to put a penis in a vagina yada yada.
    It really irritates me that i am this way and it would be so much easier if i could have a mind that matched my body, i hope you don't mind i'm going to post a second comment in case you want to delete any of this so your not deleting everything i have to say.

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  2. So.. when i compared humans to dogs, im not saying humans have a default way of mating, which we obviously don't, however, i have a vagina and i'm attracted to men, but i don't feel like i should be penetrated (vaginally), and more that i should be the "penetrator". Now I'm sure you will argue that many women also don't like to be penetrated or its because it makes me feel inferior some how because men have made us feel like being fucked is to be "sub" or whatever, though this isn't really true for me because i have always been on the submissive side when it comes to sexual activities. I just dont like the idea of being penetrated(vaginally).
    Lastly, I do prefer to wear male clothing and look up to men differently than i look up to women and wonder why this is. i saw an interesting documentary, i think it was called starsuckers.
    about how advertising and tv use our instincts to get us to buy their products. They bring to attention our natural instinct to want to know the dominant males/females in our groups, because if we can get close to them or be like them, we are more likely to get a chance to mate or get more food etc.
    This is why people often want to know celebrities and be famous.
    So when women see a famous women they idolize, selling a perfume, they want that perfume, this cant be denied as this kind of advertising is rampant because IT WORKS.
    So maybe females are more inclined to mimic females and males are more inclined to mimic males, since trans people may have the opposite gender instincts, maybe that's why they look up to and take inspiration from people of that gender. its just something to think about but I'm sure you will shrug it off without giving it a chance. peace.

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  3. Ohh sorry, and lastly, im sure you will say some women who identify as women like wearing "male" clothing. and I'm not saying that these are definite signs of being trans, I'm not.
    I'm aware that some people will always do things differently, the way some transmen still dress quite "femininely", while still identifying as male.
    But this doesn't change anything. That instinct of wanting to be famous and mimicking those around us is very real. yes i believe the whole, these clothes are male and this jewlery is female and all that jazz is a social construct, but it may be our instincts that cause many of us to live by them. there will always be exceptions.

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  4. I don't think I 'feel like a guy'...I don't think any sane person feels like a particular gender constantly, because most normal people don't go about going "Hmmm... I feel like -insert gender here-" all day long. People who are constantly thinking about gender probably have an unhealthy obsession, so I don't really like wording it that way.
    I/my mind thinks I'm a guy, for whatever reason... My natural inclination is to say "guy/man" if someone asks my gender. If I bother to hear my 'inner voice' so to speak or think about myself, I hear/see a male. When people refer to me as "she" or "her', I get an uncomfortable feeling like I am fooling them.
    But to be honest?...and I've thought about this a lot... what is gender identity? I don't know. It doesn't seem to be something that can be pinned down or measured although clearly it exists for many people.

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  5. I find it ridiculous why people have to care so much about this dirt person's opinion and others who discriminate against transgender people. Obviously, dirt is someone who hides behind a computer screen and release hatred to towards all types of males (especially FTM the most) indirectly. Let's just be thankful that not everyone in the LGBTQ community is as ignorant and not supporting as these lesbians. All we need to do is leave this website alone and let dirt ramble on her crap.

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  6. If we look at this question rationally, it is very difficult to judge if one is feeling like a certain sex/gender. Because no matter which sex/gender you are, you have no comparison. Meaning if you are female, you don't know if you feel like a boy, because, simply put, you neither are a boy, nor do you know how other boys feel, since you cannot look into his mind. The latter applies even if you ARE a boy - you don't really know if you are feeling the way you do because you are a boy. Because again, you have no comparison, and cannot know how OTHER boys feel.

    So much for theory.

    I could imagine, that for many people who don't feel like the gender they were assigned at birth, life is like wearing a Halloween costume without remembering having put it on. And also not knowing much about the character one is representing. It is about dissociation.

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  7. Doll, if you read my comments you will notice that i don't actually tackle the "i feel like a boy" issue, as much as i point out how my mind isn't quite as compatible with my body as i would like it to be.

    I think its the question itself that is flawed.

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  8. We dont die we multiplySeptember 4, 2011 at 3:28 PM

    This Militant dyke is baiting you. She could care less. Have you ever noticed how she just likes to wake up EVERYDAY and try to start a shit storm.

    what a TROLL and SHE looks like a troll. I have a hard time believing that Lynn Baker has a perfect life in Royal Oaks, Michigan. Serving up Coffee. Way to work for the MAN Lynn!

    Why don't you take the other twenty hours of your work week and go do something good for women. Instead of Trolling the Internet for OLD NO LIFE HAVING LESBIANS who agree with you. That way maybe you have some sort of connection with them.

    It is very clear that YOU, Lynn, require A TON of attention. That is why you have become obsessed with the topic.

    I bet that if everyone left you silly little blog that YOU WOULD FREAK THE FUCK OUT. I bet you would become EVEN MORE ANGRY and DEPRESSED.

    There is a HUGE difference in Men's clothing versus women's. You are probably the worst "feminist" I have ever encounter online. You cannot even defend your theories in an appropriate manner.

    You are in serious denial and I feel that anyone who cares about you should CONTACT ADULT SERVICES in Royal Oaks, Michigan, and tell them Lynn Marie Baker is Ill and threat to others.

    Specifically Minors. The parents of these children should be contacted. For those over the age of 18 who are directly involved:

    Take screen shots and download the blog page and comments page. Be prepared for a large Criminal Damages Suit involving MULTIPLE victims.

    The IMAGES OF GENITALIA on this site should be reported to BLOGGER.COM as PORNOGRAPHY. This site also speaks of CHILDREN and INTERACTS with people of all ages.

    Potentially EXPOSING MINORS TO PORNOGRAPHY WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF BLOGGERS TOS.

    P.S. Men's shirt button up on the opposite sides of Women's, and two, Most Men don't wear skirts. There is a huge difference other than department titles.

    You lack of education is gut wrenching. Just google Genetic Expression. This blog is just as offensive as someone spewing out hate and untruths about Jewish people or Disabled people.

    EVERYONE WHO IS TRANS NEEDS TO GET UP AND GET OFF OF THIS BLOG.

    There is a reason Lynn Marie Baker refers to herself as DIRT, and as a BOI.

    There is a reason for her pathetic little polls, desperatly skeeking the attention her parents never gave her.

    "do you want to kiss dirt"
    "do you think dirt is sexy as fuck"
    "do you want to fuck dirt"

    wow. someone needs help. I am guessing that no type of Lesbian wants to be PHYSICALLY around you.

    You Lynn Marie Baker are OBSESSED with anger and hatred. You are the reason CHRISTIAN PEOPLE are REPULSED by you.

    YOU NEED TO FIND GOD. Stop assuming everyone who is on here or that defends HUMANS is Trans or AGAINST THE LESBIAN COMMUNITY.

    You are not the proper spokes person for Lesbians, you are HYPOCRITE.

    Ellen wears women's clothes that look like mens. Why can't you do that? I am not talking about you wearing an apron to serve coffee. But women's clothes that are more masculine?

    You show the GENITALS OF STRANGERS, why not expose your own? IF YOU ARE SUCH A ROLE MODEL...

    WHY DONT you just DISPLAY online YOUR WARDROBE, WHY DONT YOU EXPOSE YOUR VAGINA AND YOUR BREAST?

    Show WOMEN what they SHOULD be PROUD of?

    Because YOU, Lynn Marie of Royal Oaks, Michigan, who is 44 and works at a coffee shop, are a COWARD.

    But what hurts the most is to see the pain you gush out. It is clear that you wish that you were in a position to express yourself. You give in to the Male world all day long.

    REPOST ANY PART OF THIS IF YOU BELIEVE IT. KEEP THE MESSAGE GOING.

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  9. I came on here after thinking over what Doll said and agreeing with it, wanted to post about that but got lost reading the absolute hatred from the above poster. So many things make no sense in that post- when people get really upset about the topic (and honestly this is the only place I've found where the issue of FTM and the growing numbers of young women transitioning is discussed openly, until some maniac comes on basically saying we're NOT ALLOWED to question this trans/gender illusion)- when people get really upset about the topic (anyway) they like to say how ugly Dirt is. And you're telling her to wear women's clothing? You are the ultimate example of the dogmatic Christian variety of gender-binarian.

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  10. Isn't it odd, when you ask the REALLY difficult questions about sex and gender, then those who say you shouldn't even be talking about it come straight out of the woodwork!

    As regards other animals, cows mount other cows, and bulls mount other bulls. For SOME animals (especially those that come into season etc), the signals are pretty simple. But humans, NOT that simple, we have sex even when we hqve no chance of becoming pregnant, and in many and various ways and with various combinations of bits anbd pieces. Hence you can't really rely on its biological this fits inside that.

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  11. Not sure what you are getting at bad dyke. the dogs were an example of how we naturally know what to do with our body parts. females mounting females and males mounting males still indicates that there is an instinct there telling them to do that.
    or they just wouldn't do it.
    my female dog mounts other dogs, its a sign of dominance in dogs.
    But she still understood what to do when it came to mating.
    my point being that mounting doesn't always mean they are trying to reproduce and they still understand how to use the body parts they have when they actually do intent to mate.
    Also to the angry person above.. there's no need for that attitude and no need to doc drop.

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  12. i'm not sure what the animal instinct thing has to do with anything- i don't like being penetrated and do like penetrating, but that doesn't mean i'm male... and this wanting to be famous/ celebrity stuff makes no sense in my world either.

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  13. I often think women get confused by "feeling like a woman" and "femininity."
    Any freedom loving woman would never feel like the fembot that patriarchy makes all women be... except the gender non-conforming butch lesbian naturally :-)

    What these trans are doing is simply being attracted by a patriarchal image of what they think a woman is, not what women actually are. And if you are a true woman, you are in rebellion against the horrendous patriarchy, you know that you don't want to be an oppressed object.

    Feminine is what trans is about, not biological womanhood. Not ever the same thing.

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  14. I’m trapped in this body and cant get out" is a quote by Radiohead and generally when I try to explain why I’m not female I say that.

    Not that I’m "born in the wrong body" I just don’t feel like this is truly me. There’s disbelief when I look at myself in the mirror naked.

    If I have no idea how men feel like because you say I’m not one then you are saying there are differences.

    Really I’m looking for comfort and I think everyone is to some degree, I want to find comfort within my own body. I wrote that


    "I want to surround myself in material possessions because that is what I’m told happiness is sometimes. But then again “true” love is said to be happiness. But what is love but an instinctual need to reproduce. In those terms what am I looking for at all?
    I want comfort. Just constant comfort. Even if life is hard I want to be able to come back to something comforting, that brightens my eyes and lightens up my day. I believe I found a path to that but I’ve done so before. Twice I’ve chased that comfort and twice I’ve ended up dragging myself out of it, finding out that the thing I was chasing could not find comfort in me."

    This is about trying to find comfort in everything else and ignoring it within yourself.

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  15. much of today's society is about being made 'comfortable,' as though one is at the end of life 'at this point we can only keep the patient comfortable' - real development comes from going through discomfort & coming out the other side- learning to find real comfort from within oneself, and with oneself

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  16. 4:45
    It doesn't sound like you have grasped what i was saying then. I already anticipated that some women would say "i don't like being penetrated either" and "i like penetrating" in my second comment.
    Firstly, there are always exceptions, secondly, it isn't about LIKING it, its about feeling that is what you feel you should be doing, by instinct.
    It isn't a kink, something u do with toys, its something that effected me at a young age as i became sexually aware.
    also, none of these things on their own make you trans, There is alot more than that, that was just the easiest to explain.

    And the fame things a reality. You will be surprised how many TV shows and websites use this instinct against you.
    of course most will deny that they want any kind of popularity, but considering how popular this form of advertising is (because it works) It is no doubt a reality.
    People are so quick to disregard things because it isnt compatible with their personal experiences, but guess what, you are an individual.

    Its almost like you don't want to understand me at all.

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  17. So Smileyface, you feel like your
    clit is a "penis"? You feel like you
    want to use your clit as a "penis"?
    That's what you think makes you
    a man? Keep talking to women.
    You're not the only woman who's
    ever felt that. No, not by far.
    And it doesn't make you "gay"
    and it doesn't make you "trans".
    It makes you YOU. You dress how you want. You act how you want. You have sex with who you want. And be a proud woman. Just stretch the definition of "woman" to include "YOU". Rock on!

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  18. "real development comes from going through discomfort & coming out the other side"
    Says who?
    "learning to find real comfort from within oneself, and with oneself"
    Since when? who wrote these rules?

    There's a lot of moral mumbo jumbo going on here.

    Some of us care little about pride. and these little life journeys and "the struggle" bleh, As far as I'm concerned, life is short, live it how you want to live it.
    I see comments constantly trying to make FTMs feel ashamed of what they are doing. saying things like, their traitors to women, taking the easy way out or just trying to conform (like conforming has become so unfashionable)
    because who needs happiness when you have pride right?

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  19. Right on Anon at 3:28 PM!!!

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  20. erm, no i don't want to penetrate anyone with my clit.
    I don't believe any part of my transition makes me a man really, but i want a male (looking) body and voice. I'm one of the few trans people that don't force people to call me "him" and i don't mind anyone thinking i am either gender. this is about me, personally, in my own skin. You might attach a lot to the words, man and women, but i don't.
    So if i want to aim for a male body, i really don't mind weather people call me male or female, as long as I'm happy in my skin.
    I cant explain why my mind is telling me i should look a certain way, I've already explained some of my theories as to why this may be, but whatever it is doesn't change the fact that i feel this way.
    Its a shame that i will never feel 100% in my self and will never have the anatomy i would like to have, but others have it a lot worse than i do, so I'm not going to complain, just do what i can.

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  21. i use a strap on to penetrate, wear mostly men's or unisex clothes, and think transitioning is absurd narcissistic baloney helped along by queer theory supplanting women's studies, plus a medical and psychiatric industry that's all about providing an almost sedating comfort even when it's built on illusion/delusion.

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  22. Yes, good for her! She's not chopping her body up to "make it fit" a misogynistic patriarchal idea about what "men" and "women" are! GOOD FOR HER IS RIGHT!!!!!!!!

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  23. No, its nice that she likes what she likes but its invalid to the argument.

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  24. For a moment i thought this blog post was about the personal experiences/feelings of transmen.
    But i guess not.
    and from the comment above its obvious that none of these people have any interest or had any intention to even attempt to understand how i feel.
    good for you, your brain is functioning how it should, sorry I'm not as privileged. I would love to be able to see myself as female, but i don't. so thanks for not helping.
    Sorry for having a disorder.

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  25. Hey, Smmileyface. I was agreeing with you. Im on your side here (if there is even sides)

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  26. sorry you sent your message while i was still typing i meant the person above you lol, my bad.

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  27. Thats okay, I like what you said. I cant really explain why Im a guy without poetics. But you kinda did it from a scietific point of view.

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  28. I've never said that I feel like a boy or man, but I would say that I feel like my body should be male.

    The best explanation I have come up with that elucidates how I feel is that I have some difficulties with facial recognition, and that female faces are typically the ones that cause me the most difficulty. I find it possible that I simply want to look like whatever I find most recognizable, and that happens to be male. Not looking male means finding myself hard to recognize, which is somewhat at odds with having a sense of having a clear, distinct identity of my own.

    I have considered whether these recognition problems are some sort of social conditioning, but I don't believe they are. It can be a big social problem sometimes, and the most difficult faces cause me a clear sense of the gears turning but something not adding up.

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  29. Anon 3:28,

    You know what's really fun? Signing on as an Anon and pretending to expose information about Dirt's whereabouts and workplace, just to see how many tranny stalkers are stupid enough to believe that Dirt wouldn't delete it.

    I wonder how many trannies have hung out at Caribou trying to catch a glimpse of the infamous Dirt. You, and people like you, are OBSESSED with her. Pathetic. Don't like the blog? Move on.

    You don't know shit, Anon.

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  30. Lynn Baker has a perfect life in Royal Oaks, Michigan. Serving up Coffee. Way to work for the MAN Lynn!

    Why don't you take the other twenty hours of your work week and go do something good for women. Instead of Trolling the Internet for OLD NO LIFE HAVING LESBIANS who agree with you. That way maybe you have some sort of connection with them.

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  31. I feel like a guy a lot! Or, I feel like I imagine a guy might feel (since, I am not a guy, I don't really know). I have wished I was a man. I wear guy underwear, for my whole adult life (30 years). Heck, all my clothes are mens. Because those are the clothes I like. When I was a kid I wanted to pee standing up. I never really wanted to play sports. When I fuck, I usually lead with my dick. But I also use my hands and my mouth. But I feel my dick. I sometimes use a strap on but prefer natural. On the street, men acknowledge me like a guy. Other people notice this and point it out to me. I can tell when straight women are attracted to me. They see me as a in-between. I do not feel like most women I see in the world, but I still think, because I am biologically female, that, logic says I AM a woman. So, all these must be female thoughts, feelings and desires, too.

    I have felt most of my life like a guy (I'm almost 50). In the last few years, I have changed my thinking. Like, I don't have to separate these feelings from the experience of being female. That I can feel all these things as a female and they are female feelings.

    Thank goodness I never took T or did surgery.

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  32. lesbianplusfeministSeptember 5, 2011 at 4:43 AM

    "I feel is that I have some difficulties with facial recognition, and that female faces are typically the ones that cause me the most difficulty."

    What do you mean by facial recognition? I thought that referred to whether or not (or how well) someone can use visual cues to be aware of having seen a person before when meeting that person again...which should not be a problem with your own face, since I'm sure you've seen it plenty of times. Wouldn't you have more trouble recognizing your own face after changing it?

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  33. "I do not believe sex is taught, it is a natural instinct, and we don't learn to use what we have got, it comes naturally."

    Same nonsense that the patriarchy comes out with, because they don't want us to probe into why males act like men and females act like women, because that is supposed to be 'natural'.

    In other animals, reproduction is a natural instinct, but then what humans do as sex is often NOT reproductive (like having hetero sex when the women is extrmely unlikely to conceive). It becomes more of a simple -- this is how my body works and where my sensitive regions are, let's work out how we can do stuff together than stimulates them. Because let's face it, if you REALLY believe in that reproduction being natural stuff, then you are in danger of labelling homosexuals as unnatural right at the start.

    Humanity, bless us, is unnatural! Even bonobos (pygmy chimpanzees) have a natural definition of sex that is wider than the reproductive, with females having sex with females and males having sex with males, because in evolutionary terms, we have sex as in the reproductive act (penis fits with vagina so we can fertilize the egg), but then we also have the secondary meaning, of sex as pleasurable and helping to cement the group and ease tensions.

    So, we have the act of mounting in cattle or dogs, that has become a social act showing dominance, derived from the supposedly natural act of a male mounting a female, but evolution has adapted it to other purposes, and it ends us as something that can be performed by males or females. So, the we naturally know what to do with our bits, and what I want to do means I need male bits becomes less and less likely when we understand the full range of what humans and other animals naturally do.

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  34. Bad dyke, that is all irrelevant.
    instincts stick with us, even if they become obsolete. like a moth flying towards the moon, due humans inventing electric lights, moths now fly towards the closest light, and this has destroyed their usual migration systems.
    Now moths just fly around lights, the instinct is still there. it has just become somewhat obsolete.

    The need for sexual stimulation in itself is an instinct, some people don't desire any kind of stimulation.

    pretty much every emotion you produce played a function in getting your genes here today.

    "Because let's face it, if you REALLY believe in that reproduction being natural stuff" are you saying reproduction is unnatural?
    I'm not saying homos are unnatural, if they are born that way then it cant be anything but natural and I'm not entirely sure where the line is from when something stops becoming natural and becomes unnatural.

    When i was a kid sex was pretty straight forward in my mind, these were my initial instincts, but then, you can explore your body and learn new tricks from others, but before i had ever felt any kind of sexual stimulation, i was aroused by thoughts of sex, i just always took the mans "position" in my mind. This is before i even knew how to masturbate or what that was. and i wouldn't do anything sexual for at least 5 years after having these initial feelings.
    It really doesn't make a lick of difference that humans, bonobos and dolphins have sex for pleasure.
    We developed these urges and abilities so we would mate as much as possible.
    "unplanned" pregnancy is exactly what our genes want.
    Humans don't have sexual urges because they want to have babies, but through evolution, we have developed sexual urges and the need/want for sexual stimulation, SO we will have babies. I'm sure if we got no pleasure out of sex, the amount of babies born would drop dramatically.
    Your genes don't care if you are happy, your genes don't care about what hobby you have and what tv shows you like. your genes just want to be passed on. and your genes may end with you. Yes some people are born differently, nature isn't that strict, doesn't make you imperfect or unnatural, just abnormal in comparison to the majority. I accept that i am different to the majority, and don't really have much of a purpose in the grand scheme of things.
    but as long as the majority is breeding the human race will continue.

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  35. You miss my point -- some people were using 'natural' or innate, or biologically determined as some sort of reasons WHY their feelings should be taken seriously.

    I'm just pointing that that you misunderstand our evolutionary heritage if you just see sex as being JUST about reproduction.

    Personally, I don't give a tinkers cuss about what is 'natural' or 'unnatural'. I don't care if homosexuality is totally unnatural and just a choice -- much of what humanity currently does is profoundly unnatural and long may it continue so!

    "It really doesn't make a lick of difference that humans, bonobos and dolphins have sex for pleasure.
    We developed these urges and abilities so we would mate as much as possible."

    The reason why animals first developed penises and vaginas (as opposed to just a cloaca) is for reproduction. The reason why sex is pleasurable isn't hard to understand, it's what evoloving humans and other apes (and other mammals), have done with those capabilities from a social point of view. And that brings it's own evolutionary pressures and drives, it ISN'T all just spread your genes as much as possible by performing the reproductive act as many time as is possible.

    The very basic fact that humans are willing (and not just willing but wanting!) to have sex when there is no chance of reproduction says in great big letters that sex for humans is about MORE than just reproduction, hence its also about MORE than just a male way to do sex and a female way to do sex, and 'naturally' wanting to have sex from the male point of view with a penis, or from the female point of view with a vagina, about who does or does not want to penetrate or get penetrated.

    Sex is just something that humans do, with various bodies and in various ways, for various reasons. Some of that sex and some of those reasons is for reproductive purposes, but I bet that MOST sexual acts performed anywhere in the world today AREN'T for the purposes of getting pregnant (contraceptives, condoms, other sexual acts other than penis in vagina, sex acts that don't involve a penis, sex acts that don't involve a vagina etc etc). Hence what sex is ABOUT for most of us most of the times that we do it is about pleasure and about our relationships with our sexual partners.

    So, given that view of sex, we just do whatever we find gives us most pleasure, with the bits and bobs we happen to have, with people we happen to like doing it with. Looked at in that way, homosexuals having non-reproductive sex is just as 'NATURAL' as any straight couple having non-reproductive sex........


    And reproduction and 'natural' sexual acts in terms of the specific reproductive act can go take a hike, or in many cases, the sexual act is one thing, the reproductive act (in terms of getting out the turkey baster) is a DIFFERENT matter.

    So, what we're left with is some people who feel divorced from the bits and bobs they do have, with brings us back to body dysphoria. But in terms of taking the male position in your mind, that's (I would wager) almost all LEARNT, not some innate biological drive and you've been installed with the wrong driver for the printer that is actually attached, in effect.

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  36. "the very basic fact that humans are willing (and not just willing but wanting!) to have sex when there is no chance of reproduction says in great big letters that sex for humans is about MORE than just reproduction"
    everything about us is aimed at making us live long enough to pass on our genes as much as we can.
    yes there are social reasons why people also have sex, because we are social animals, but there is a reason we are social, it all still plays a part in our survival to live long enough to reproduce.
    Again, what people do today with their bodies doesn't really have anything to do with or change our instincts.
    the rest of your comment is just based on assumption.
    Though i do like the "wrong driver for printer" thing, that explains pretty much how i feel.
    And this blog post is about how we feel as trans people, not how you think we feel.

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  37. I think you are mixing up consciously having sex to reproduce and instincts telling you to have sex so you end up reproducing.
    Its not about knowing that sex will result in a baby. We know alot these days but go back several million years we didnt clock on to the fact that we are passing on out genes, we might not have known that having sex would result in pregnancy. we didn't have to know, as long as we did it.
    so on a conscious level, we were having sex for the pleasure, but in the grand scheme of things, we were doing it to reproduce.

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  38. i'm not sure i understand, smileyface, why these reproduction thoughts of yours fit in at all with theories of transsexualism.
    (i've always since childhood thought of myself sexually as a 'penetrator' and have never had any physical relations with a male and think the ftm trend is a tragedy)

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  39. smileyface, it's common for women to not be interested in being penetrated. For some of us, it's something we'd only do in order to get pregnant. We've got clitories for sexual stimulation, you know!

    The idea that in order to be sexually normal a woman must desire vaginal penetration - to be fucked by a man - is patriarchal shite.

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  40. I've tried and tried and tried to reproduce with past girlfriends, but so far, nada! Guess I'll just keep on a tryin!

    dirt

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  41. "And this blog post is about how we feel as trans people, not how you think we feel."

    Except there's how you FEEL, and what that MEANS. Not just what it means for you, in terms of how you interpret that feeling, but what it means in the wider context of males and females in this society.

    "Again, what people do today with their bodies doesn't really have anything to do with or change our instincts." Except ASSUMING it is instinct (hence innate, since that is the sense in which you seem to be using it), doesn't really capture the full richness of what humans do (or could do) and WHY we do what we do.

    The selfish gene stuff isn't as straightforward as some seem to think, and remember that (some of) your genes can still pass on to the next generation even if you individually don't reproduce.

    Just because it is bloody obvious that an animal with NO instinct to reproduce (in terms of having to perform specific physical acts with a specific member of the same species) would die out, doesn't mean that what humans do today is driven solely by that simple instinct, or that some simple 'you're a male hence you're the penetrator' instinct exists in our brains as some sort of legacy of that early instinct.

    Given that humans no longer have a simple phermones system to detect males or females (unlike, say, moths), how do we go about it? Let's face it, human infants are one of the most HELPLESS in the animal kingdom. We have to LEARN so much from our parents and our wider group. Imagine a group of primitive humans, would such infants really NEED some innate, pre-programmed sense of gender from birth, couldn't that just be learnt among with the many other things we learn? And let's face it, probably how to do sex as well, since our most primitive ancestors probably didn't have any qualms about having sex in front of other group members..........

    Just as we LEARN how to be human from the other humans around us, so we learn how to be a girl or a boy, based on the simple fact that others around us know what sex we are, and interact with us accordingly.

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  42. "What do you mean by facial recognition?"

    Hm, the best way I think I can explain it is differences in how I recall the visual identities of different people. If I think of someone with an "easy" face, I largely get a generic mental image of their face. For people with harder faces, even those I know well, my mental image is a series of specific observations of them, and while their face is usually present and important in recognizing them, it's not the only thing I'm using to identify them. It's a somewhat slow process that ends up being pretty reliable, but their faces never become internalized as completely as the easy ones.

    And so sure, I could recognize myself on some level because I see myself a lot, but it's not the same kind of recognition. I feel like I recognize myself better now because my face is now one of the "easy" ones.

    I don't actually know how related this all is, but it's an observation I've found sort of interesting and wanted to put it out there because it's not something I've really heard much before.

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  43. Smileyface last post.September 5, 2011 at 11:51 AM

    I think some of you need to re-read everything i have said.
    I am aware that other women have the same feelings on the issue as i do, but that was only part of how i feel.
    Once again.
    I used that example as the easiest to explain. (though i didn't just say "i have no desire to be penetrated" i also said that i feel that i should be the penetrator. once again, this is just 1 example of the thousands of different ways this effects me. The other feelings are really difficult to get out in to words.
    If your not me, then you probably aren't going to understand.
    You have already made up your minds. progress is slow because ideology dies with you, its very hard to change someones mind once they are in that mind set. and this goes both ways.
    But all this was just 1 tiny part of what i had to say.
    going back to my original comments.
    I'm not saying I'm a man.
    I'm saying something is causing me to mimic the males around me.
    as i already said, i believe that the clothes we wear are a social construct. i don't believe clothes really are gendered.
    But as i explained, there are reasons men tend to mimic other men and women tend to mimic women, especially the more popular men and women. Again, there is a minority that don't, but a huge proportion of the world does, and this is why youtube, reality tv and the use of famous people in advertising is so popular. It is an instinct that the media uses against us alot to get us to buy their product or use their services.
    This is a huge topic and its hard to explain every aspect in these comments, I'm just explaining on a very basic level.
    society making me ashamed to be a women really doesn't make much sense to me.
    specially since I'm going through something that will make me an outcast whereas i wasn't before.
    I receive less respect as a trans man from men and women as i did as a "women" not that I'm not female.
    I also find it odd that the followers of this blog think men transition for an entirely different reason.
    My views on my own transgenderism? Is quite different to what i usually hear from other transmen, so best not assume you know what my stance is.
    I do believe sex is instinctual and not taught.
    I do believe these instincts generally vary on the whole, between the genders.
    I do believe males are more inclined to mimic males (specially more popular or "dominant" males)
    and same for women.
    Also, dirt, that was the most idiotic response I've had yet, how are you not embarrassed?
    Anyway, none of us are experts and i doubt were going to settle this on a silly internet blog.
    And none of this really changes the fact that we feel this way. Its like saying admitting you have a disorder will cure it. Having admitted i have a disorder, i can tell you it doesn't.
    However i have found a path that is making me very happy and changing my life for the better, and if this upsets women or is disrespectful to women or makes me a traitor to feminism then i don't really care. As long as I'm happy.
    Anyway, i could go on and start throwing studies at you but i feel i have spent too much time on here.
    I thought Dirt wanted to understand how we feel but instead she just wants to mock it.
    Im going to leave it at that. i don't speak for all trans men, just me. I dont feel any of you have truly grasped what i'm trying to explain but that's to be expected, how can you understand a feeling you will never feel?
    (rhetorical)
    Anyway, enjoy discussing this amongst yourselves but i probably wont be coming back to this blog ive wasted alot of time and really should be getting back to work.
    So don't bother aiming your responses at me cos i wont be reading, sorry, but i can already guess what they are.
    have a nice day all and i meant no disrespect. peace.

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  44. Dr. Oliver Sacks (who I know personally but not well) has a facial recognition problem- Prosopagnosia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia

    I've never heard someone use it as an excuse (or one of the excuses) for changing gender before.

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  45. smileyface seems to be implying that she'd rather follow and accept society's standards than ignore it or fight it- nothing new, it's the common trans way of thinking- plus she seems to prefer anal sex.

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  46. "society making me ashamed to be a women really doesn't make much sense to me."

    Very sad, a female that just can't admit the misogyny that is all around us from day one............

    "I do believe sex is instinctual and not taught.
    I do believe these instincts generally vary on the whole, between the genders.
    I do believe males are more inclined to mimic males (specially more popular or "dominant" males)
    and same for women."

    Biology is destiny, there you go. I want to penetrate people sexually, therefore I'm a man, I should have a penis, and it's up to society to provide me with one...............

    We get back, really, to the same ole stuff, that bdoies are different (that is sex), and that brains (and hence instincts) are different, that is 'gender'. Hence a male brain and someone who wants to be a penetrator (sorry, makes someone sound like some bunker-busting missile, and let's not forget all the societal assumptions of power etc behind being the active penetrator compared to being the passive one who is penetrated) despite not having a penis.

    Mismatch between brain, or instincts, or whatever else you want to call it, and biological sex.

    Shame then that even the academics seem to feel that gender identity is probably part innate and part learnt -- just that no one can agree on exactly how much each way, and no ethical way to find out!

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  47. My anatomy never really fit with what i felt i should be doing with it. -- Pay attention because this is your reason which explains why you are the wrong biological sex. You repeat: I do not believe sex is taught, it is a natural instinct, and we don't learn to use what we have got, it comes naturally.

    Here's what you're saying:

    Birds know instinctively what to do with their wings, and when they don't, their confusion must mean that they think they're a squirrel. Which is all well and good as platitudes go, but birds who don't know how to use their wings get eaten by other predators while humans who don't know how to reproduce are vastly outnumbered by those who do.

    Just imagine all the natural born birds who DON'T know what to do with their wings. Let's start a new charity, species-reassignment for bird-2-squirrel.

    Here's the thing, "knowing what usage society has assigned for each body part" is not the same as "I agree with society's opinion". Agreement is not the equivalent of natural. Gayness is quite common AND NATURAL among animals -- does that mean all those gay animals secretly feel the need to be a different biological sex?

    Dammit to fucking hell, please take a logic class. You're saying that homosexual folks should have a sex change. Try again, cos that argument is straight out of the Taliban.

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  48. Okay, sorry for being frustrated with bad logic, but come on. If penis in vagina is "natural" (using your definition not mine) it is only so because it results in a BABY. For normal heterosexual couples only, obviously.

    If I never cream my panties at the thought of sex with either males or females but I DO cream my panties every time I roar down the highway in my convertible, what does that say about me? Does my lust for automobiles mean that I must be a machine?

    You're doing the same old switcharoo: If you feel like performing sex with somebody who is the same sex as you, then you must be in the wrong body. Anybody who wants to have same-sex intercourse cannot possibly be gay but magically needs a sex change.

    Why do you hate gay folks? You are HOMOPHOBIC. And gay. So come out of the closet.

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  49. "I do believe males are more inclined to mimic males (specially more popular or "dominant" males)
    and same for women."

    I've actually contemplated this possibility many times and I agree that, if possible, it could account plenty of trans people (i.e. they're imitating different sex role models more than same sex ones because of a brain difference.)

    The problem here is that there are tons of butch women and effeminate men who feel just as inclined towards "opposite gender" behavior as your average transsexual. They're just fine as their birth sex, but according to your world view, they must be the wrong one.

    Furthermore, many tomboys and sissies have equally strong "I'm the wrong sex" feelings as children and sometimes even as young adults. The only real difference is that they grow out of it.

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  50. As a Butch, not growing up with any other Butches, not seeing any Butches on TV or in any Films, I looked to males for role models and those I FELT I wanted to emulate, including my father.

    That doesnt obviously mean, I should have been born a male, was born with a "male brain" or any other such nonsense. It does however mean, that the females I did see on tv, in films and in the everyday, didnt reflect the kinda girl I was or wanted to be and sadly, they still do not. Nor are they allowed under the masturbatory gaze of patriarchy which looms even large today.

    dirt

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  51. Okay apologies for serial posting.

    But as i explained, there are reasons men tend to mimic other men and women tend to mimic women, especially the more popular men and women.

    Really don't mean to jump on your case since you're making a great effort to discuss (and I'm just being drive-by grumpy), but your assertion up above is actually including an additional invisible premise and then pretending that you don't have to provide evidence for it. Here is your full argument:

    1) there are reasons men tend to mimic other men AND

    2) sexism doesn't exist AND

    3) the only possible explanation can be that men are very different from women

    THEREFORE since sexist socialization doesn't exist then the only possible explanation is that men are different from women.

    As soon as you acknowledge that yes sexism does exist and yes sexist socialization does exist and you remember to include both of those in your analysis, then you would notice that your conclusion is circular. which is automatic invalidation.

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  52. actually m andrea she (if you're addressing 'smileyface') is only attracted to men, but doesn't like vaginal sex

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  53. "I very literally cant live as a woman. I dont see myself as one, I dont like my female parts. I feel consistantly suicidal everytime I get my period."

    I hate living as a woman in this society, and I certainly don't see myself as what society expects from a woman. I wasn't that fond of my female parts when I was growing up, as the very visible outward sign of the less than fully human person that society expected me to be.

    Except I got over some of that when I realised the problem wasn't ME, but all the crap society expected of me as female.

    And I hate my period too, just that rather than iti making me feel suicidal, I just get slightly mad and homicidal just before my period! If there was a simple, safe way to turn it off, I would. I don't go all gooey eyed and earthy-mothery at my natural moon cycles and my innate ability to carry a child, i just feel like shit and it's a damn inconvenience.

    "this is one of the reasons I feel I am male.
    My chosen brother told me when I came out to him as Trans that it didnt suprise him "because I dont see women like a lesbian does". "

    Nope, just means you were an asshole as regards women, the way many men are, and you believed the same crap! Understandable really, since you so detest what is female in yourself that you should also have detested it in other females, just the way men do.

    but you got over that bit of conditioning, so why stop there?

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  54. periods are generally awful for everyone
    at least i know it cleans out my system regularly
    which doesn't happen once you're on testosterone
    which is why it's recommended that ftm's have everything inside removed
    because it just rots in there

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  55. you have to remember that the etch is a kid
    and kids think they know way more than they possibly can

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  56. I never felt and don't feel like a boy, nor a girl. I am my own breed. I like what I am and who I am, and the only thing that has pissed me off through most of my teens is other people's stupidity and lack of logic or common sense.

    But I've been doing my own personal research into the psychology behind my reactions and the more I understand why I act how I do, I'm starting to see things in a different light and become calmer and less effected by it day by day. There are heterosexual people out there with the media's representation of the 'perfect' life, yet they're on prozac or suicidal. I on the the other hand (someone who has every reason to be suicidal by conventional standards and cultural pressures etc) am evolving and growing, not just 'surviving'. I actually am glad I was born this way, it gave me loads of wisdom and I can bet the rest of my life is going to be happiness and success.

    I had quite a few years of crap when I htought life wasn't worth living and thought I ought to transition, but I soon woke up to that and discovered the complex psychology behind it and how to reverse those distorted images and perceptions. I didn't change my body, I changed my mind.

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  57. @Dirt

    "It does however mean, that the females I did see on tv, in films and in the everyday, didnt reflect the kinda girl I was or wanted to be and sadly, they still do not"

    Exactly, this is the nub of it.
    Women who do not conform to gender norms dare to be the women they are not the women society want them to be.

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  58. Yeah, I'm guessing smileyface and etch are both about 15 years old.

    They do not speak for all transmen, especially not me. That biological sex/instinct/mating reductionist bullshit makes me facepalm.

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  59. I was thinking The Etch is about 20 or just under (half my age) because she complained about getting kicked out of the house. smileyface maybe a bit older (only because she says she 'used to breed dogs') but not great with language?
    What's troubling is that they and others similar seem to think a great deal about gender but after a certain point a wall goes up inside of them which they refuse to think beyond. Reason not permitted. Magical thinking only!

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  60. "Not feeling female" is pretty different from "feeling male." Sounds as if when a person doesn't feel female they start to feel or understand that it must be male feelings they are having. Maybe not for everyone but thats what I've been hearing lately.

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  61. i don't even think there is such a thing as 'feeling female' or 'feeling male'
    it strikes me as such a limited and limiting way to look at life

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  62. Just wanted to say the site looks great! Halloween is coming! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  63. "I've never heard someone use it as an excuse (or one of the excuses) for changing gender before."

    And as the person putting this observation forward, I don't even think of it as a complete explanation, but merely one piece in my personal puzzle.

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  64. Perhaps those two are kids. Perhaps they arent.

    But those of you above who felt the need to point out that smileyface and The Etch are both kids in order to invalidate what they are saying, you are choosing to ignore them and berate them.

    That is a testament of your own arrogance and ignorance. The only reason anyone would have a reason to pull age into anything (mainly an older individual pulling a younger person's age into the matter) it is usually because that older individual feels intellectually threatened. My father used to domineer over me in that way. And today he is in a jail cell. He is both arrogant and ignorant. Those two things added together equate to a dangerous, stifling, and oppressive human being.

    For goodness sakes...just listen to these kids...

    Be quiet. and Listen.

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  65. Why can none of these people understand that when you put your picture out on YouTube, Facebook etc. ad nauseum, it can be used anywhere, by anyone, and is in fact OWNED by YouTube, FB, etc. ad nauseum?
    Do you REALLY never read the small print???

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  66. being gay does not require anything but being alive
    being trans requires
    usually depending on hormones and/or surgery
    (a physical 'cure' for a mental disorder? though hormones do indeed change the brain)
    a belief in conforming to the gender binary
    validation by others of an assumed false identity
    what is there to question about being gay? i see a girl and i think she's pretty and i smile- gay.

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  67. If you cannot or care not to answer the questions, then do not bother commenting.

    dirt

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  68. 11:13
    I HAVE been listening to these kids
    (& seeing them regularly in Real Life)
    This is how I know how much existential distress today's young non-conforming females are in
    And how they've been taught (mostly by other youth) that the reason for their distress is that they're actually male
    It's too difficult for me to ignore
    I feel that the world needs its females, of all kinds
    For the sake of future generations at the very least
    Why can't people think beyond their mirrors and their simplistic and regressive views of gender?

    and IronDeciple- RIGHT ON!

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  69. could somebody else other than smileyface comment on this? i'd really like some transpeoples sincere answer to this question.

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  70. As a female, how do you "feel like a boy or man"(explain)?

    “As a female”. Female bodied yes but actually female? No/
    I feel more comfortable in my own skin as a man. Parts of me that are seen as female such as my genitals and breasts make me uncomfortable enough that Id rather have male parts like I’ve always wanted since I was young. Throughout puberty which I started going through younger than most, I felt alienated from my own self because while my friends who were male didn’t look that way, I was starting to look different from them and when my friends who were older voices broke, I was so jealous. I wanted everything they had. Whenever I look in the mirror now and I look particularly female I feel this sense of dread creeping into me. Whenever I use the bathroom when I’m on my period I turn off the light and pretend it isn’t happening. Any cramps I get I convince myself that I have a stomach bug.

    What occurs within you when do not feel like a female?

    By within me, you mean feelings? I’m probably more confused by this question than I should be. I feel cut off from myself as in “is that really me?”, “do I really look like that?”. It was much more evident when I tried to fit in with my mothers views of what females should look like. My Grandmother is not like that and she’s the one who mainly raised me but my Mother defines her own self by how attractive men find her. So I dressed not with the same intention but In the same way. I dint have any female role models and I wanted to please her when all I thought about was how nice it would be to be a man. I didn’t manage it very well because my Mum has fashion sense, I don’t whatsoever. I still feel dysphoric when I look at myself for any length of time longer than it takes me to brush my teeth in the morning but not as much as I used to. There’s a total of 4 photos of me before I started to dress the way I wanted and stop repressing myself.

    What does it mean not to feel like a female?

    It not so much not feeling female and feeling male as it is feeling more comfortable being one or the other. If it solves my personal issues in regards to how I look then I’m all for surgery and mones. It is my personal choice and my own body and If I’m sane enough to be self sufficient and independent then I am sane enough to do what I like with my own body.

    Is there a difference in feeling like a female and feeling like a girl/woman?

    Feeling like a female: Feeling like you’re a member of the female sex and being cool with that. Not bothered by your gender just existing as a person

    Feeling like a Girl/Woman: Having a deeper understanding of your gender identity and being proud of your womanliness. Maybe loving yourself as a woman?

    Really this question is subjective and I do not know what answer is the right one from Transpeople or by you girls on here.


    Dont delete this Dirt, Im just answering you're questions

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  71. I don't think that anyone can feel male or female. Its more of feeling comfortable with yourself. Not everyone can be happy with the body they are given at birth. It doesn't mean that they are weak or less than anyone else. Everyone is just not simply the same. I am ftm and it's not that I feel like a male or don't feel female. I just know what I want to look like. I would just prefer not to have my breast or vagina. I don't believe in feeling like a man or women compared to male and female. With that I believe follows the stereotypical roles in place. I just think there is a difference in being a child and an adult. That way no one is expected to do the stereotypical gender roles that entails with development.

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  72. etch
    why do you think this 'one or the other' idea is so strong within you?

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  73. I think there are plenty of variations within Gender, that males can be very many kinds of males and the same with females.
    If I thought that I could be happy as female and force myself to accept my body as it is now then I would. But it hasnt worked for me yet. It now an easy way to live being Trans is not. Its not the easy way out by any means.

    Its not society thats made me think "oh, Im a different kind of female, I must be male". Its the dissociation with my own body. The more male I am the happier I am.

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  74. how did you learn what it means to be male if not from society?

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  75. >>how did you learn what it means to be male if not from society?<<

    Thats not what I said. What I said was that being a different kind of female doesnt make you male.

    I made comments about being a boy very young. I used to tell people I was a boy when I went to preschool. I just always felt that way even when I was tiny. I dont think I had that much of a societal influence at that age. My Grandmother didnt force me into girls clothes. I wore dungarees most of the time. Nothing really gendered and before school I was pretty sheltered. It was me, My Grandmother and Grandfather. My Grandfather worked all day and when he came back it was my Grandmother who was in charge. Shes quite the matriarch. I think you'd like her.

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  76. are yoy saying that you're not a different kind of female?
    do you believe in the magic of your soul being male and it happened to drop into the wrong fetus?

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  77. As a female, how do you "feel like a boy or man"(explain)?

    It makes me feel happy, comfortable, and satisfied when people address me as male, refer to me as male, and make assumptions about me that they make about other males (although of course there are limits to this; it makes me unhappy and uncomfortable, for instance, when women assume I'm a potential rapist, and I'm sure many men would agree with this sentiment). My aesthetic preference is for qualities that are 'male' and when I dress and act in a way that comes naturally and makes me feel good, it causes people to think I'm male.

    What occurs within you when do not feel like a female?

    When I'm in female spaces (and I don't just mean around hyper-feminine women) I feel uncomfortable, like I stick out and can't really relate to the people there and don't belong there. When people around me are gendering me as female, I feel 'weird' and out of place, like a woman probably would if she woke up one morning and everybody started calling her 'sir' and getting mad when she went into the women's room and wouldn't explain why. It makes me feel a little embarrassed, honestly. I don't feel like I have a 'male brain' (how would I know? Yeesh) but clearly there must be something different about me to make me feel this way when so many women, including women who look and act very much like me, don't feel how I do.

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  78. Etch, find another hobby besides this blog. You are nothing more than your basic run of the mill girl. That you latched onto the tranny train because you're lonely and bored, while being sad, is also clearly pathetic. Transitioning or pretending to transition online isnt going to make you the special snowflake you dream of being.

    dirt

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  79. so what the 2 people above are implying is that they have serious mental illness and delusional thinking
    while i do have empathy for the mentally ill they must be able to see that there is no reason for this type of behaviour to be lumped in with ordinary homosexuals
    i have some mental issues as well but why should that be bundled with any other cause?

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  80. Being trans is a very difficult thing to explain. It's almost impossible to explain something that nobody else is ever asked to explain. Nobody asked my brother how he knew he was a boy, so it totally threw me when people began asking me that. I never looked in the mirror and saw a girl. I never viewed myself as a girl. There was never a time where I said, "I'm a girl but I want to be a boy." There were many many times where I was extremely confused as to why people were calling me female, it just never occurred to me that I was different from any other boys. I always just.. knew. I doubt my brother sits there and says, "Hey I really feel like a guy today." No, he doesn't say that. He just is a guy. He doesn't think about it or act a certain way just to be seen as male and neither do I. I just am.

    Dirt, I'm glad that you figured yourself out and are now proud of your butch identity, but that's not everyone's journey. I'm not confused about my male identity. I never ever have been. My journey is different but we're both just trying to be our authentic selves. I know who I am and I'm not transitioning for the rest of the world. It doesn't feel like a transition because I've always always always known who I am. Whether or not people believe that I truly know who I am, doesn't matter to me. I know and I'm just trying to live my life in peace.

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  81. wow that makes no sense at all!
    obviously your comfort outweighs reality

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  82. if anon @ 4:00 pm could explain to me which part makes no sense I would gladly clarify. After reading it over a few times I'm pretty sure it makes perfect sense and you just don't agree with the way I view myself. I'd also love to get Dirts opinion on why she thinks her journey to self acceptance is more valid than mine is.

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  83. it makes no sense because you are not male in any way
    i assume you are 'the (irritating) etch'

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  84. I'm not even sure what "the etch" means.

    You see, instead of making points about what I have said, you just try to invalidate my identity. Maybe if you could address some of the specific things I said, I could have a conversation with you.

    You don't see me as male, which I find disrespectful but something I've come to expect. Like I said, nothing I do is for anybody else. I don't pass all the time and I'm okay with that because as long as I'm happy with what I see in the mirror, I'm fine. If somebody intentionally disrespects me, that's the only time I get honestly upset.

    I know that my body is not what society views as male but I'm not trying to say I have a traditionally male body. My identity is internal. In my heart I see myself as male. So I don't understand where anybody gets off telling me my identity is not correct because as far as I'm concerned, the only person who can truly know how I feel is me.

    You can call me D, by the way. I'm not going to publish my whole name on here.

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  85. " Nobody asked my brother how he knew he was a boy, so it totally threw me when people began asking me that. I never looked in the mirror and saw a girl. I never viewed myself as a girl. There was never a time where I said, "I'm a girl but I want to be a boy." "

    Your brother knew he was a boy because people told him he was from birth, and addressed him as a boy. Unless you were brought up by some weird sect where no one was ever addressed as man or woman, girl or boy, where no two kids every compared what was in their knickers and noticed there was a difference, then you knew you were a girl. Unless whoever brought you up consciously decided to pretend you were a boy, and made sure you never discovered the differences in plumbing, you knew you were a girl.

    "and you just don't agree with the way I view myself." Because its either a lie (see above), a cruel experiment (like the main character in the Wasp Factory by Iain Banks, where the father tells the girl she is a boy, gives her hormones to suppress periods etc, and tells her her penis was cut off in a bizarre surgical accident when she was small), or just a very deep self delusion.

    " I doubt my brother sits there and says, "Hey I really feel like a guy today." " But I bet he worried about being a proper boy, about not seeming too sissy or too fagggy, about being a proper man when he hit puberty etc.

    "Nobody asked my brother how he knew he was a boy" Because all he had to do was drop his pants if anyone ever doubted his entitlement.

    Bots have a penis, girls don't, that all most small children know.

    "if anon @ 4:00 pm could explain to me which part makes no sense I would gladly clarify." Nope, you're doing a pretty good job of repeating most of the usual cant.

    "i assume you are 'the (irritating) etch'"

    the etch we can't scratch, that sort of irritation perhaps.......

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  86. Okay I can see now where some of the confusion was. I suppose what I was trying to say was that no matter what people told me or what differences I saw between me and my brother, the way I viewed myself never changed. I was just confused when people called me by female pronouns. I just assumed things would correct themselves when I grew up, which was why I never made a big deal about it. When the physical differences between boys and girls are not so vast, it's easier to ignore. I expressed myself any way I wanted, I never felt stifled. I could dress in the clothing I liked, have haircuts I liked, and play with any toys I wanted. When I got older and realized nothing was going to correct itself and that I was the only one who saw me as a boy, that's when I was sure something was not right. All my friends who were female started becoming very feminine and expressing sexual interest in boys. My friends who were guys started looking and sounding different and I still was slightly confused as to why I wasn't looking like them. I don't hate my body at all. I don't bind my chest but I know it doesn't quite fit in with the way I view myself. I assumed for a long time that I was just a masculine female. I tried to fit in with the lesbian community but I found I was role playing a bit. I would deem myself the "boy" in the relationship. I always pictured myself as being my partners boyfriend, not girlfriend. I tried cutting my hair short and wearing "boys" clothing but there was still a little something missing. The thing is that no matter what other people told me all my life, the way I saw myself, as male, never changed. So now I'm taking steps to simply correct something that went wrong. I can see that you guys are having a difficult time understanding this and I don't blame you. It's almost impossible to understand unless you've been through it yourself. All I ask is that you respect me, even if you don't understand me.

    I'm really thankful that I wasn't brought up in an environment where boys were pressured into being as masculine as possible or told not to be a "sissy." I don't believe that kind of pressure is healthy. So no, he doesn't worry about not being "faggy."

    and if that's the case about "the etch", I assume that person meant "itch."

    -D

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  87. "you just try to invalidate my identity"

    People can call me a giraffe, if they wish, doesn't INVALIDATE my identity!

    The only person invalidating anything is yourself, if what others say has such an effect.

    I think it's #4 on the list:
    http://transgendertropes.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/transgender-tropes-4-denying-gender-identity-denies-our-very-existence/

    "You don't see me as male, which I find disrespectful ..... If somebody intentionally disrespects me, that's the only time I get honestly upset. " Not agreeing with someone elses delusion isn't disrespect, although of course the deluded person is going to get upset if anyone else points out that it is a delusion, that's why their deluded!

    Just go read the list referenced above, would save someone a lot of typing..............

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  88. " I can see that you guys are having a difficult time understanding this..." I think we understand it, we just don't AGREE with your interpretation of that experience.

    "I'm really thankful that I wasn't brought up in an environment where boys were pressured into being as masculine as possible or told not to be a "sissy."
    where were you raised, on Mars, in a sealed box?

    http://transgendertropes.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/trope1-you-should-educate-yourself-on-the-subject/

    A combination of numbers 1, 2, 4, 6 and 7 I think........

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  89. I did not say you WERE invalidating my identity, I said you were trying.

    I already said that I do not do things for other people and that all that matters to me is what I see in the mirror. So, there really is no way anybody could invalidate my identity. Calling me a female does not make me feel like any less of a man.

    -D

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  90. No, I was not raised on Mars. I was raised my two parents who don't care whether or not their children are masculine or feminine.

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  91. "No, I was not raised on Mars. I was raised my two parents who don't care whether or not their children are masculine or feminine."

    Gender binary anyone? Just #7 again. Yawn...............

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  92. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Because my parents don't enforce gender roles, they are playing to the gender binary?

    When I said they don't care whether their children are masculine or feminine, all I was trying to say was they don't tell us we have to act a certain way based on what's our pants.

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  93. " they are playing to the gender binary?" No,you are by just listing masculine OR feminine, as if they were two mutually exclusive categories, and the only options. Plus confusing gender with sex
    btw.

    "they don't tell us we have to act a certain way based on what's our pants."
    Except the rest of society does, unless you were raised in a box, on Mars, by robots...............

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  94. Still waiting for the full list, anyone want to have a go at number 8?

    http://transgendertropes.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/transgender-trope-9-if-females-have-vaginas-are-females-without-vaginas-male/

    I think I've over-exercised my sarcasm gland again............

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  95. Okay, I know that masculine and feminine are not the only two options. I don't think people who are exclusively masculine or exclusively feminine exist. Of course society tells us we should act a certain way based on what is in our pants. My point is that my parents never did. Children learn a lot from their parents and I was given free range to express myself a child. I wasn't too concerned with what society was telling me at age 5. I didn't learn that boys have to act one way and girls have to act another way. I see so many parents trying to put that in their childrens heads. I hear so many fathers telling their boys to "man up" and be tough. That was never anything I ever heard in my family as a child. I'm not talking about the world at large, I'm talking about my experience as a child in my family.

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  96. " I didn't learn that boys have to act one way and girls have to act another way. " Well, then you were about the only girl in our society that didn't!


    Just the same trans free of gender conditioning trope, else you have to admit the possibility that that same conditioning is perhaps WHY you can't admit that you're really female...............

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  97. So you're against the gender binary, yet you think that lack of "gender conditioning" is damaging to children? I'm sorry but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

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  98. lesbianplusfeministSeptember 7, 2011 at 6:14 AM

    "The thing is that no matter what other people told me all my life, the way I saw myself, as male, never changed."

    D, the problem with understanding you is that being male means having a certain type of body, by definition. You know that you don't have that type of body, so you must have your own, very different, definition of male in order to see yourself as male. The question is, what is that definition? I really want to know the answer to this question.

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  99. " yet you think that lack of "gender conditioning" is damaging to children?" No, jut that a BELIEF in theor own paticular lack of gender conditioning seems to occur quite often amongst trans folk. Because they need to believe that the 'innate' sense of gender is down to biology, NOT that same conditioning.

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  100. lesbianplusfeminist, that's a good question. I did have to come to terms with the fact that I'm just a different kind of boy. Before I knew there were other people out there like me, it was kind of hard to understand why I was so different, but from that experience I learned that the words male and female can have many different definitions. Of course when it comes to sex, most people just have a penis or a vagina. That definition wasn't working out so well for since I don't have a penis. I had to look at myself and other guys from a different perspective and I realized that there are so many different ways to be male. It became less about the body and more about the person you are inside, as cheesy as that sounds. What was in my pants (or anyone elses pants) became pretty insignificant to me. Like I said before, I wasn't raised to think a persons sex was a big deal anyway, I was still aware of the differences when it came to anatomy. So, I suppose now sex/gender isn't my first concern. I'm more concerned about being a good person and living a life that is comfortable to me. I don't need other people to agree with the way I identify myself to feel comfortable in my skin (although it would be nice). I will admit I have changed my body a bit but that was not to make a statement or say that to be male I must have this type of body. It was for me like getting a tattoo or something. It was something I did to personalize my body in a way I saw fit and I'm happy to say that I'm living my life comfortably now and focusing more on being a good person as a whole. I don't need to go running around saying I'm a boy, I'm a boy! I actually still get a lot of people calling me by female pronouns. Even though it does sting a bit, I know who I am and I'm not going to go cry because a stranger couldn't tell by looking at me. hope this wasn't too rambly. :)

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  101. " I will admit I have changed my body a bit but that was not to make a statement or say that to be male I must have this type of body. It was for me like getting a tattoo or something."

    If maleness ISN'T about what bits and bobs you've got, why then do so many trans people go for surgery and/or hormones? If it was just, I'm male, whatever body I've got, why isn't that what we see on the vids? Except that isn't what we see, but a long line of confused teenagers all desperately trying to get a script for T, posting pictures of every miniscule change once they're on T, and counting the days until they can get top surgery?

    If you think having your tits cut off, or trying to make a neopenis out of the flesh of your arm is
    like getting a tattoo, then it just shows how deep the delusion and amount of disconnection from your body really is.

    If you REALLY believed what you've said, then any female-sexed person, with a 38DD chest and a baby-bump, can be a male,and good luck to them. We're back to male being just some nebulous, you're male if you say you are, bodies and clothes and everything else doesn't count one bit, and neither should pronouns for gawds sake! Right, you're a male, what the FUCK difference is that supposed to make? O, you REALLY want me to treat you differently, maleness is some magical male inner essence that you think you share with those XY humans out there..........

    sorry, it's just plain bollocks (no pun intended).

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  102. And so all the stuff about, I must have a penis else I'll kill myself, that we get from the trans lobby is just nonsense. Being male just means you've got a male brain, so why does anything else matter, what body you've got, or what pronouns people use, or what mistaken assumptions people may or may not make about what's in your pants?Okay, you've got a male brain why should it make any difference to anything else?

    O, is it perhaps just because you don't want to be mistaken for one of those XX human beings who doesn't think they've got a male brain (or a female brain, as a matter of fact, just a brain). ...............

    If trans just meant XX humans discovering they've got a male brain, that would be it. An interesting but mostly irrelevant matter. Except it DOESN'T mean just that, it means you want to have a different body, be treated differently by others, and for fucks sake, you certainly DON'T want to be mistaken for a poor ole common or garden female.........

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  103. BadDyke, I am tired of arguing with you. That reply was for lesbianplusfeminist. I was intersted in answering her question, not going around in circles with you. We don't agree, we won't agree, and frankly I don't care what else you have to say about the trans experience.

    Good day.

    -D

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  104. "We don't agree, we won't agree, and frankly I don't care what else you have to say about the trans experience."

    The INTERPRETATION of the trans experience, do try and keep up!

    If you don't agree, why bother posting here, because it's pretty clear what line Dirt is taking on her blog.

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  105. " I was intersted in answering her question," except you didn't, because you didn't explain why having a male brain should mean anything at all of relevance to anyone...........

    Unless (I expect), it then somehow gets linked to behaviour, or bodies, or the body you THINK you should have.................

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  106. Actually, she did not ask anything about having a male brain.. so I'm not sure why I would answer a question she didn't ask. She asked what being male meant to me. I do not and will never speak for the entire trans community. I speak for me and my experience only.

    You seem angry and combative. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in having a conversation, not an argument. That is what I post here for.

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  107. His Name is Robert Paulson

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  108. "You seem angry and combative. I'm not interested in that. "

    And here we have the typical 'hysterical feminists' line......

    and we still don't have a defintion of what 'being male' feels like. As I've said on another thread, when I thought about the innate gender thing doesn't make sense either (because how does the child know how that innate gender sense relates to the two types of humans they see around them, unless someone TELLS them which group is theirs! I can't think of a way that would actually work!)

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  109. "and more about the person you are inside" So, what is DIFFERENT about that person inside that makes you male as opposed to female?

    I've thought and thought about the biology etc, and really can't think of a plausible mechanism that evolution might have installed, given the variability of males and females across different human societies.

    What certainly DOES work is that adults hold a baby, and recognise what genitalia it has -- hence treat it like a boy or a girl, depending on how boys and girls are treated in their society.

    Then all we have left, is children that empathize or fit in with their own sex group (i.e., DO the gender behaviour that their society decides is appropriate for girls or boys), OR we have children that don't fit with their group. DOESN'T mean their innate 'gender identity' is wrong, what is 'wrong' is some more complicated social, 'not-fittingness'.

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  110. "Regardless BadDyke, we can still do what we like with our bodies as long as it doesnt directly cause physical harm to anyone."

    Except (as I keep saying) access to hormones and surgery ISN'T that sort of free-for-all, and still requires others to address their medical oaths, and DOES such surgery really 'do no harm' to the patient, and is removing healthy organs REALLY in the best interests of the patient (and we actually DON'T have the medical evidence on that, as a recent report from Sheffield University showed).

    Should we allow (and indeed assist) in what some might see as causing physical harm to others merely because they demand that we do so? There are people who demand that surgeons remove their healthy leg, because they feel a deep-seated need to be an amputee, yet as far as I am aware, VERY few surgeons and very few hospitals have so far agreed that such surgery IS ethical. Yet strangely enough, they don't seem to have the same reluctance when it comes to SRS............

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  111. "The majority of feminists are pro-choice (as am I). It is our right to do what we like with our own bodies and if someone wants to abort a fetus or in the extremes, chop off ones own leg, well then it may seen crazy to some or most but its still their choice to do what they like with their own bodies."

    Sorry, but that is a TOTALLY fucked-up definition of pro-choice!

    I may want to have am abortion, but I cannot FORCE others to perform an abortion on me if they do not want to. Hence if none of them agree to do it, I don't get one.

    I MAY want someone to surgically remove my leg, but THEY DON'T HAVE TO AGREE, and nor should my 'right-to-choose' COMPEL them to do the surgery!

    So, you have a fairly empty, I have the right to choose to WANT to do what I WANT with my body, but while the rest of us still thinks that it is IMPORTANT that doctors and pharmacists and those with access to SHARP knives operate under some ethical guidelines, then you don't have the right to do what you like with your own body, just the right to try and PERSUADE others to join in with you in that, in terms of them actually doing the surgery.

    Nor, would I argue, is it REALLY your choice to chop your own leg off, because then you selfishly still expect someone else to pick up the pieces afterwards. And if those some medics come upon you just as you are about to chop it off, then I bet they would feel that they are morally justified in trying to wrest the chainsaw out of your hand.

    No one is an island when it comes to serious surgical intervention, unless you manage to find me some nutter with surgical knowledge who really did manage to cut off their own foot, AND do a nice job on the stump etc. And then I'd still have problems with whoever sold him the scalpal, and the anesthetics............

    (I've heard of someone who tried to remove their own gall bladder, but they got tired holding their liver out of the way, and had to go to the emergency room, where someone else had to sew them back up! I kid you NOT. Okay, his 'right' to pursue that particular MAD self-surgery fetish, but I bet he'd have been REALLY pissed if the emergency room docs had refused to tidy up the mess he'd made!)

    <> Let's face it, if we REALLY believed this, then whenever someone said, 'I'm going to JUMP', our sole concern would be, are you going to hit anyone below? If not, go ahead, as long as you leave a cheque behind to cover the clean-up costs, and NO ONE would EVER try to persuade then otherwise, because HEY, that would be interferring with their 'RIGHT' to do what they want with their own body (which includes terminating all bodily processes!).

    Not the sort of society I'd like to live in, and frankly totally-teenager, this constant repetition of 'you've got no RIGHT to tell me what to do!'................

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  112. BadDyke, Its no surprise that pathological narcissism is a prime factor of the trans disorder.

    dirt

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  113. "BadDyke, Its no surprise that pathological narcissism is a prime factor of the trans disorder."

    Not one of the diagnostic criteria though! :-)

    "Oh and may I just say that although are opinions on this issue are opposites. You're quite fantastic at debate "

    Tis my job, as a research scientist, to poke and prod and just generally be bloody-minded and over-bearing over every little point!

    I really AM trying to get my head round this 'gendered brain' stuff. In my experience, it's an explanation that the general public find plausible, just (as a non-biologist), it doesn't make sense to me!

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  114. "I dont know how to fix that part of who I am...." Maybe it's NOT YOU that needs fixing, but society, which STILL has such narrow views on what girls and boys, men and women, males and females, SHOULD be like.

    It's not just about you, it's about the whole trans ideology, and how the 'fake trans' as someone on another post called the 'male brain' set are propagating the idea that such a thing is possible. It's about the women on YouTube who are getting the message that the ONLY option for them is saying 'I'm a male with a male brain, but stuck in this female body', and lining up for surgery.

    And it's also about the medical profession, who are just reinforcing the whole gender sterotypes that feminism has spent so much time trying to dismantle.

    And I still don't think that 'thinking of yourself as female' is a concept that has ANY real meaning -- despite the fact that society OBVIOUSLY thinks it does.

    I'm agin it, I'm not so sure about you........

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  115. Well I cant fix society and tat part of society will not change in my lifetime. So I have to find ways of making myself happy.

    Hmm how to describe thinking of myself as female..
    Well I always felt out of place in girls only stuff. Like Im not meant to be there. But thats neither here nor there.

    What I currently pursue is making me happy and thats all I can do. I dont see a better option.

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  116. I'll not comment on the political defeatism.........

    "Hmm how to describe thinking of myself as female..
    Well I always felt out of place in girls only stuff. "

    Uh, so did a whole load of the rest of us! Didn't mean that we weren't female, just hadn't bought into the same crap that many other little girls had been forced into.

    Sorry, but this isn't HARD, if you'd read anything about feminism at all.

    Or any of Dirts posts, for that matter!

    Is that REALLY it, I felt uncomfortable with the girls, felt more comfortable with the boys... hence I'm male.....End of story and good night...............

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  117. "And here we have the typical 'hysterical feminists' line"

    really? is that what I said BadDyke? No, I believe I said YOU are intersted in being angry and combative. Nowhere in that post did I say anything about feminists or you being one. I'm simply talking about the attitude you have when it comes to this conversation. You're quite good at twisting peoples words around or only addressing the one point you think you can knock down instead of the entire message someone is trying to get across. Dirt does the same thing and it's incredibly annoying.

    -D

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  118. "You're quite good at twisting peoples words around or only addressing the one point you think you can knock down instead of the entire message someone is trying to get across."

    Uh, doing otherwise would be ignoring what i think is the major flaw or the mistaken assumption at the root of the argument. I don't do gestalt debate. Blame it on scientific reductionism............

    Or the elephant in the room.........

    a lot of the time, it seems to me that what's being said (not on this thread, i get confused) is IF you believe the concept of having a male brain, or feeling like a boy, then what should trans folk do. Except I DON'T, that's kind of the whole sticking point. Hence I get returning to the root of the matter.

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  119. lesbianplusfeministSeptember 9, 2011 at 4:07 PM

    Yeah, my question didn't get answered, D. How about a fill-in-the-blank?
    "Male means _____ to me."
    That's not just a space for one word, either. Explain, explain as much as you want. It will be a historic moment on this blog if you (or any trans and/or queer person) gives a direct, coherent answer to this question.

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  120. Lesbianplusfeminist, my whole point was that being male isn't my main concern. My main concern is living in a body I am comfortable with and being a good person. person, not man.

    But lets see what I can do.

    Being male means being comfortable in my skin to me. Being male means maybe changing others perception of what it means to be male since I do not try to act masculine or "macho" if it's not genuine. In that way, many people think I'm a "fag" or a "sissy" when in fact I am not a gay guy like they think I am. Being male means looking in the mirror and seeing exactly who I feel I am. I didn't transition for the pronouns, the gender marker change (which I still haven't gotten), or to be accepted by other guys. I still get just as much crap as I did when I was being read as a "masculine female". The only difference is that now I'm happy with myself. I never told one single person to use male pronouns when referring to me, they did it on their own. It was not my doing. I decided I wanted to be comfortable with myself and any changes in the way people decided to refer to me or treat me were all their decisions. No influence from me. So, being male means a few changes to my body for me. We all change our bodies sometimes, my changes were just a bit different than the average persons.

    of course, what it means to live as a trans person is really complicated even if I do everything I can to keep it simple. That makes it really difficult to try and convey my experience in a paragraph but I did my best. I don't think any two trans journeys are the same, so I only speak for mine. I would not want anyone to generalize the entire trans community based on one persons experience.

    -D

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