Change Your World-NOT your Body

Friday, August 5, 2011

Transition and LEGAL Marriage

Trans people have been legally marrying for over SIX DECADES in the US, while currently other than a couple of states, gays and lesbian continue not being able to marry their partners. Trans persons who partner with opposite sex or same sex partners can and do have the privilege to marry that partner in any state in the US.

If a female who transitions to a male, and was previously a lesbian and remains being attracted to women, once she LEGALLY changes her sex (and lets be honest, thats the only REAL changing of sex that occurs with transition) she can then legally marry her g/f in ANY state in the US!

If a straight female transitions to male, if she desires to marry or is married to her male partner, she simply can choose NOT to legally change her sex and marry or remain legally married in ANY state in the US!
The fact is as Trans is suppose to be part of the LGBT, why would any trans person if they cared about gay and lesbian issues and right, have up until very recently (and only in states where gays and lesbians marriage is legal) marry? Does this sound like COMMUNITY to you???? Does this sound like a political group of like minded people with gay and lesbian interest in mind????

Makes about as much sense as Civil Rights groups partnering with the KKK for equal rights!

Until the Male Medical Machine catches up and ceases cosmetic "sex change", trans people should of course have every right afforded them. But the battles that need to be fought and won for gay and lesbians have little to nothing to do with trans issues and it makes no sense for the T to be attached to the GL, especially given that up until now even as "allies" of gays and lesbians trans people as a community have been piss poor.

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78 comments:

  1. Seems to me (despite the fact that things are a bit different here in the UK) a prime example of how trans people, and in particular FTM, do access male privilege.

    I can't quite remember WHEN the T crept in -- in my early days, it was still just LGB, with the B being fairly new (hey anyone found a token bisexual so we have at least ONE in this group!). I didn't see the links with trans people then, and I still don't.

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  2. Exactly. It definitly sucks that homosexuals can't marry. What a bunch of bull shit.

    I'm a tranny. I don't think I should be grouped with our community, mainly because I am not part of your community. As dirt likes to say "I'm not part of any alphabet soup". I love that line by the way.

    I will fight for your rights with you but when it comes down to it, I have more rights than you. Which is a bunch of bullshit. 2 years ago I wouldn't have been able to marry my girlfriend. Now I can. We can add each other to our insurance benefits. Adopt kids with out any issues. Etc. I do think this is really unfair. Am I going to refuse the new privileges allowed to me because of my sex change? Absolutely not. I've only ever met one straight couple that refused to marry until rights were given to every person. After 5 years, they married anyway.

    But what about the gay trans people? For instance, the straight women that transitions and is now seen as a gay male. She would now be seen as the "G" part would she not?

    You know I haven't seen anything about transwomen on here. How do you all feel about them?

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  3. "Makes about as much sense as Civil Rights groups partnering with the KKK for equal rights!"

    How dare you. That is all I have to say. How dare you.

    If anyone is reminiscent of the KKK here it is YOU. The Ku Klux Klan has killed members of my family. They desire to oppress, destroy, and manipulate the truths of communities they choose to discriminate against. THeir favorite thing to say is that "we do not hate people of color/jews/gays, we only wish to promote white supremacy". Insert your butch supremacy folly into that statement and you have yourself a direct parallel. That is what you do here, Dirt.

    As a person of color, I have never wanted to face to face verbally assault a white person as much as I do you right now. You make me sick. Any one who thinks like you as well.

    How dare you.

    This post has just hit the roof of the last straw. I will see what I can have done about your "freedom of speech"/diarrhea of the mouth.

    It would fair you well to choose your words more carefully. Reporting this blog will not do it, so I will have no choice other than to bring higher authorities into the matter.

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  4. I'm usually right there with you but I'll have to agree with the anon above... that statement you made was a bit much. Kind of embarrassing. Could you maybe say it another way?

    Just a suggestion. It was kind of a tasteless thing to say is all.

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  5. soooo.. It would seem to me your time would be better spent fighting for YOUR RIGHTS within YOUR COMMUNITY then to WHINE ABOUT MY RIGHTS..

    This is just another way to spew your hate towards us. No more an no less.

    I am for HUMAN RIGHTS. ALL HUMANS.. Regardless of who they are.

    FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS INSTEAD OF ATTEMPTING TO WHITTLE AWAY AT MINE..

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  6. It's not trans peoples fault that we have the right to marry. Go after the politicians! Instead of whining and boo hooing over it go out and do something. I'm all for gay marriage and can't see why it's not legal.

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  7. "The fact is as Trans is suppose to be part of the LGBT, why would any trans person if they cared about gay and lesbian issues and right, have up until very recently (and only in states where gays and lesbians marriage is legal) marry?"

    Wait wait. You're saying that, dependent on when we get our legal shit changed, since we can actually have gay marriages (however you define them), we have no interest in LGB's rights to marry?

    I see what you're saying that some of us (again, dependent on when we change legal docs. they certainly won't let us change them temporarily just to get married) have no personal investment in fighting for that right, but we still do, and with as much gusto as anyone else under the umbrella! In fact, there are a good portion of us who end up being unable to marry who we love BECAUSE we transitioned. So, actually, we DO have a vested interest in gay marriage rights.

    But, since some of us can get married by deliberately timing legal changes with a wedding(We get only one shot at this too. Better know we're going to stay with them forever), we are akin to the KKK?

    This is so patently offensive and absurd it is, to quote Twisty, "lobe-blowing."

    Did you even read what you wrote?

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  8. Yes transpeople are ok to benefit from legal marriage but they never fight are with us LGB when we protest about it.

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  9. I'm a transman and have no interest in marrying at all. Not until Gays and Lesbians can legally marry too. If I partner with a female, she'll have to be okay with the fact that I refuse to buy into the marriage "norm" and if she's not okay with it, she is perfectly at liberty to move on. (As in, I don't expect a woman, whether lesbian or not, to "stand by her man" and all that nonsense). I have a heterosexual friend who has been in a civil union with her boyfriend BECAUSE of the fact that she refused to get married until gays and lesbians have that right as well. And neither of them are trans or any letters of the alphabet soup.

    My comment will probably get deleted because I purposefully do not conform to Dirt's ideas of what a transman is. I must not be a real transman in that case, right? Oh my, I'm feeling transition regret! Someone help me, the roid rage is kicking in!

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  10. There trying to abolish trans marrage in texas, an theres a case right now where a transwoman is being sued by her husbands famliy for his benfets because he was killed being a figherfighter.

    KKK really....

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  11. Dirt,
    Is it true that a friend of yours was murdered by her transman lover?

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  12. Why are we all collectively responsible for what some of us do?

    (1) I'm not married. And I couldn't marry, in my state, because I'm gay and legally male. But if I were straight, I still wouldn't get married on principle.

    (2) All of my activism - all of my donations, all of my door-knocking and envelope-stuffing, all of my emails and calls to my Congresspeople, all of my civil disobedience - has been for three issues. DADT, rape/sexual assault in the military, and *marriage equality.*

    Do I have issues with the trans "community's" narrow focus on trans issues? You bet I do. Every time we win a battle for LGB rights, like clockwork, within 24 hours there'll be a dozen articles bemoaning how trans people were left out or 'thrown under the bus' or something equally stupid. It happened most recently with NY marriage equality. And it pisses me the f*ck off, and I write about that too.

    But just because some people are immature selfish self-absorbed assholes of the first order doesn't mean we all are. It just happens that the self-absorbed perpetual-victim asshole brigade coincides with the group of trans people who refuse to let you ever forget that they're trans because it's every third word out of their mouths. There are many more of us working quietly in the background to do the right thing.

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  13. Piss poor allies? You don't want us to come to "your" spaces, work in your organizations, attend your colleges, call ourselves feminists, date "your" women, or ask that you respect our identities. The real fact is that you wish we didn't exist at all , so any attempt to address more specific issues of our privilege is issues with false concern. You will do and say anything to discredit us. I see no such attack against lesbians by transmen. You draw these lines in the sand claiming to be saving women, but all you really want to do is attack transmen. What exactly the fuck is wrong with you?
    Dirt, you are at the front of a very small and pathetic movement to divide us all. A much larger community of lesbians does not agree, nor will they ever get on board with a hateful and divisive agenda fueled by a few sick inviduals' personal issues.

    I'll take advantage of my straight privilege to get married so my girlfriend can get health insurance. I don't feel bad about that, because letting her go without health care will not improve your chances of being able to get married one day. Your persistent hate-mongering makes me even less sorry about my privilege.

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  14. can someone tell me exactly what "Male Medical Machine" means?

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  15. Yes transpeople are ok to benefit from legal marriage but they never fight are with us LGB when we protest about it.

    This is a lie.. LGBT Activists who happen to be trans do fight for all rights in the LGBT community..

    The divisions being handed down by people like Dirt are not helping. The divisiveness is being done by some of the Butch Lesbian Feminists.

    I do not see Dirt as an activist at all; rather on the same plane as Fred Phelps. Only she is doing it as a Butch Lesbian from within the community.

    Tiz baffling to say the least.

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  16. Wait a minute. Didn't the Black Panthers reject support from gays due to the "immorality" of homosexuality early in the civil rights movement? Was that not because some had a "choice" to be gay while others had no choice in being black? Does that ring any bells here? Didn't the feminist consciousness raising movement reject butches early in the struggle, due to butches embracing the clothes and mannerisms of men? Please correct me if I am wrong because I am no history PhD, but I'm pretty sure that divisiveness amongst identities weakens movements for liberation of all marginalized peoples. An earlier poster summed up the ways in which transpeople are not accepted by the patriarchy and do not gain access to privilege in many ways. Why in the world would you seek to deepen a divide like this, when so many people are struggling for rights and when a united movement could do so much? If you want to be a lesbian and fight for lesbian rights alone, then go ahead I guess. Good luck with that! But the rest of us are out here all fighting for each other every day. I don't need to know that a person is just like me sexually to know that they need help and liberation. I guess that's the difference between you and me.

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  17. ""Makes about as much sense as Civil Rights groups partnering with the KKK for equal rights!"

    How dare you. That is all I have to say. How dare you."

    Learn the difference between a metaphor and a simile.............

    If we can't even dare to say some simple things in the anonymity of the internet, then we've got a problem! If SOME things just can't be discussed, then we've got a problem.

    "I will see what I can have done about your "freedom of speech"/diarrhea of the mouth.

    It would fair you well to choose your words more carefully. Reporting this blog will not do it, so I will have no choice other than to bring higher authorities into the matter."

    Ah, seems that speech is only free if you say NICE things...........

    Bluster and blather from someone who just saw KKK, and didn't bother to understand what was actually being said.

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  18. Let me just spell it out from my UK perspective.

    Some on here think that transmen and radlesfems are diametrically opposed, because of the views on gender. So, if I making a point, what OTHER groups can I think of where there is a fundamental and irreconcialable difference? civil rights and the KKK.

    So I use that as a bit of hyperbole and a comparison. DOESN'T mean that I'm saying that either trans or radlesfems are LIKE the KKK, just that the opposition between the two is what is alike. Except note hyperbole, exageration for the purposes of making a point.

    Of course, there will always be some who just see -- you're saying we're the KKK, and get all precious.

    "The divisiveness is being done by some of the Butch Lesbian Feminists."

    Dearie me, getting VERY specific now, those naughty butches! no, there really is a fundamental difference here, we wouldn't all just get along if some naughty dykes (many of whom aren't butch BTW) stopped pointing out that what the trans community believes about gender is diametrically opposed to what rad feminists believe about gender.

    Note use of word believe, because the science doesn't prove the trans point about gender either, nor does personal experience, since in scientific terms that's just anecdotal evidence, and usually totally unreliable (like anecdotal evidence about homeopathy working for you, or chiropractic, or laying on of hands......).

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  19. "Does this sound like COMMUNITY to you????"

    Does your OWN BLOG look like 'community' to you after all the hateful posts about transgenders?? We have to support each other! Not bully each other! I completely support lesbian and gay marriage

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  20. why do we 'have to' support each other?

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  21. There are no "hateful" posts about transition, there are only posts that prove as treatment for GID, it is based in homophobia, it doesnt work, and the mind cannot be healed by butchering the body.

    dirt

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  22. My mind is okay, nothing to heal from, Dirt. How's your mind? I'd say not so good. Given your obsessive anger and preoccupation with transmen. Still waiting for you to realize that this is not the way a healthy, balanced human conducts their own life. I feel bad that you have wasted so much time and energy on us. Energy you could have devoted towards uplifting butch females. We are okay. Are you?

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  23. The fact that transsexuals can get married but gays cannot reminds me of how Iran deals with the same situation. Convert homosexuals to transsexuals so they can fit into society.

    A gay transman can marry a man as long as s/he doesn't legally change specific documents like birth certificate for example.

    A straight transman can marry a woman as long as s/he changes specific documents like a birth certificate for example.

    I have seen trans people be denied marriage but it was only because those documents didn't reflect that they were now legally recognized as the opposite sex.

    This is the governments doing though. Trans people didn't create these rules whatsoever. Plus all the trans people I know personally are in support of marriage equality. Now if I trans person was against marriage equality...I'd call them a fucking hypocrite and it would be like joining the enemy.

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  24. For a trans person to get medical help they have to concede that they do have Gender Identity Disorder. Disorder = Illness. Basically. Mental Disorder or Mentally Ill.

    Face it. Medicine considers it a mental issue. A body issue disorder at that.

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  25. "This is the governments doing though. Trans people didn't create these rules whatsoever."

    Except the laws are prompted by the same ethos that created the concept of transition in the first place, the FICTION that you can have a male brain in a female body, and that you can then CHANGE the sex of the body to match the brain. That's the whole damn point, surely, and the health service allows it, and the government follows suit by legally recognising the constructed sex/gender, which is supposedly what the whole damn thing is about!

    It's the government taking the trans fantasy line seriously, so you can't blame it on the government when they change the law.

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  26. "Still waiting for you to realize that this is not the way a healthy, balanced human conducts their own life."

    Except it ain't just dirt, I'm damn GLAD that she is blogging.

    I could reply that healthy, balanced dykes rightly show alarm when they see so many other women going down the road of surgical self-mutilation. That's not the way a healthy, balanced human should treat their own body, or their mind.

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  27. Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but the highest rate of transsexual surgery takes place in Iran, because the society is so patriarchal and so conservative, and homosexuality is punishable by death.

    Transsexualism is the answer, according to the Iranian government.

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  28. To clarify: the Iranian government believes transsexualism is the "cure" for homosexuality.
    If you transition, you get to live, but if you refuse to transition, and live as a woman who loves other women, it is punishable by death.
    Same type of dynamic seems to be going on in some states in the US where people are strongly encouraged to transition in order to access their civil rights such as marriage (without the death part, obviously)

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  29. For FTM's here, that is untrue. Only MTF's can legally marry in heterosexual couples. An FTM would get a "same-sex civil partnership"

    I don't see why anyone would marry while other human beings are denied the same right - but this does not only apply to transfolk, or to bi/pansexuals who choose to marry opposite gender people. This applies to every person who identifies as GLBT friendly. Hell, this applies to gays and lesbians who marry in states that allow it while two hours away others like them can't.

    If you exclude everyone who might have the potential to do you wrong, you get a very small community indeed.

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  30. "That's not the way a healthy, balanced human should treat their own body, or their mind."

    Right. Maybe you should start THAT campaign with the lesbians who are drinking, smoking, doing drugs, abusing their partners and eating too much. A healthy human is a healthy human, regardless of gender status. Dirt does not present that way to me. It's no secret to anyone that butch dykes have a problem with transitioning. It hits them the wrong way because they struggle to understand their own gender and bodies. That doesn't say anything about transitioning. It says much about the way people project their issues onto others when they are struggling.

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  31. Some on here think that transmen and radlesfems are diametrically opposed, because of the views on gender. So, if I making a point, what OTHER groups can I think of where there is a fundamental and irreconcialable difference? civil rights and the KKK.

    Baddyke, I answer from a South Pacific perspective - The KKK has done, and continues to do, serious, actual violence towards other people for no more than the colour of their skin. For some that is not hyperbole - that is comparing either transpeople or dykes (depending on which side we deem to be equivalent to the KKK) to the group that violently tortured and killed their family members.
    Simile or metaphor we may find it, having never experienced the KKK, but it shows an incredible amount of white privilege to use it as a US analogy.

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  32. to the etch-

    men aren't biologically female

    that's all there is to it! to think you're male is simply delusional.

    -from a not very feminist and not very butch and not very community-oriented or political lesbian

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  33. Im not biologically male and I understand that but transgenderism is not a delusion. Whether it is or not is not the point either. I cant live as female and I tried for 3 years to accept myself as female. After a few suicide attempts I decided fuck it, Im going to transition and be happy. Im a lot happier now and although I still have occasional depressions about my body. I feel that the progree Im making is making me feel a lot better. More myself. Whether Im delusional or not is not the point. Whether Im happier is the point.
    Also whether your straight, gay, butch, femme, a dog or a cat doesnt make your statements any more valid. Although a cat with the ability to type would be cool.

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  34. what does 'living as a female' entail exactly?

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  35. Cosmetic hormone replacement and mutilative surgeries wont make you any kind of male, bio or otherwise Etch. Not feeling right in your body is MENTAL problem, and no amount of PHYSICAL "treatment" will change that.

    You could have made more, long term progress with being happy with yourself had you worked for it. Now there is no chance for that.

    dirt

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  36. Dirt, We've spoken before on youtube. I go by the user Ifiwas madeofstars.

    Well what I meant by living as a female was wearing girls clothes, trying to give a shit about makeup and hair and crap. Trying to mentally convince myself that I was a girl and that I wasnt a boy.
    I have felt like I should be a boy since I was about 6 years of age so its a long time.

    Well Dirt honestly. If you just TRIED to like guys more. Maybe you could be cured of the lesbian thing? Like even if you try and accept yourself as straight for 3 years and it makes you suicidal. Just keep going.
    (That was what I felt like saying when I read your comment now here is my educated response)

    Whether they make me male obviously not bio or not. To me I will look male and what I feel like I should look like inside will be what I look like outside. Im not trying to fool myself I know what sex I was born.

    When you say mutilation. I really want to know where you set your bar. Whether cosmetic or otherwise. What about ear stretching or breast augmentation or even the guy who made himself look like a tiger? Would you ban these procedures? I believe free will plays a part here. This is my body nobody elses. I can do what I like with it.

    Why is there no chance? I am not on hormones yet and wont be till after Christmas. I dont know how you feel l could have made more long term progress. Please enlighten me. What should I do?

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  37. "Well what I meant by living as a female was wearing girls clothes, trying to give a shit about makeup and hair and crap. Trying to mentally convince myself that I was a girl and that I wasnt a boy."

    Um, I never did any of those things- they are NOT a requirement of being female.

    Also, why do you think 3 years is such a long time?

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  38. Oh I know that. Its a stereotype in itself.
    Im not a girl so I dont really know how to act like one. I basically copied my mother. By trying to be female I kinda meant just actively trying to convice myself that I was a girl and that I could be happy as one.
    Didnt work and am happier now.

    3 years of on and off severe depression. Suicidal thoughts all the time. Feeling a complete disconnect from your own body. It felt like a long time to me. Maybe not a long time to you but it was a rough 3 years.

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  39. i really can't get over how many young kids have such strict gender ideas (in the name of 'queer' or 'trans')- why is society regressing in this way?
    since you didn't like make up (or played with trucks, or played with boys, or didn't want to be treated in the shitty way many people treat girls, etc) you're really a 'dude?'
    what the hell!

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  40. THERE IS NO WAY TO ACT LIKE A GIRL!

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  41. E, yes that is correct.
    I know what I am though and a guy I am.
    Or at least that is the perception of myself I have.

    Anon, No Im a guy because thats how I identify and that is how I view myself and how I feel comfortable ebing viewed as by other people.

    I suppose I was talking stereotypes of women but its really really hard to explain why you are the gender you are. Why are you E and you Anon the gender you are? How do you know that is what you are? Other than what you were born as?

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  42. WOW, thats some SERIOUSLY disordered thinking Etch. No wonder you THINK you are something you are not and never will be.

    dirt

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  43. Dirt. I know what I am.
    And I am happy travelling down the path I am travelling.
    Just wondering why you are speaking for me? You claim that I only THINK I am something. Well you only THINK you are a lesbian. I cant say that though because I cant possibly know whats going on in your head.

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  44. If gays and lesbians living in states where same sex marriage is legal really cared about their community, they would refuse to partake of that privilege until same sex marriage is legal in all 50 states.

    As for trans people, why should they care one bit about those who choose to further marginalize them? Trans people have always been out there in the trenches, fighting for equal rights for ALL LGBT people, only to be time and time again stabbed in the back by those whose rights they've been fighting for.

    Rather than spending all of your time criticizing trans people, maybe you should be seeking a cure for your same-sex perversion.

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  45. oh thank you so much trans people!
    you've made my life wonderful
    with your being born in the wrong bodies and all
    what would we do without you?
    & the cure for same-sex perversion- that's pretending to be the opposite sex, right?
    (until turning into a homosexual 'male' that is)

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  46. "Well what I meant by living as a female was wearing girls clothes, trying to give a shit about makeup and hair and crap. "

    As others have said, this is something that most of the dykes on here have NEVER done.

    "Im not a girl so I dont really know how to act like one. I basically copied my mother."

    Again, do you REALLY think the rest of us supposedly came biologically pre-programmed to like pink, dresses, and hair? What is anybody else doing but COPYING THOSE AROUND THEM, and learning the 'appropriate' gender roles in that way.

    You came so close to getting it, but seemingly really couldn't take the final step of seeing that all this gender role nonsense is just that, nonsense. Makes no more sense than assuming that females are genetically predispositioned to understand how to operate the washing machine, and men aren't.

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  47. "Whether Im delusional or not is not the point. Whether Im happier is the point."

    So being happy is more important than being honest about what and who you are? More important than the truth?

    "I cant live as female and I tried for 3 years to accept myself as female. After a few suicide attempts I decided fuck it, Im going to transition and be happy"

    3 years? Try living why GID for 16 years. You think that you've tried your hardest to be female, but it's not about trying. You don't live as female, you're born that way. You will always be female even if you take T, get your breasts and inner genitalia removed and take a male name. You will never be male, you will just be a female in drag for the rest of your life.
    3 years feels like an eternity when you're trying to fit into a role that isn't you. I know because i tried for way more than 3 years. You want to know how to "live as female"? Don't try. If you try, you'll just be copying what you THINK is female and that will never feel right.

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  48. Etch,

    Lesbians do not take drugs or mutilate their bodies to be lesbians, we do not legally change our sex to be lesbians nor is our lesbianism dependent upon what others think. Without all that, you have nothing, not even a real identity, which after is the REAL self and in your case a female self you deny because you hate her.

    dirt

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  49. Anon regarding gay/lesbian marriage,

    Gays and lesbians marrying where they can strengthens the legality and fight for marriage in other states.

    dirt

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  50. wow, what a nasty, bitter bunch of hags. Look in the mirror Lynn, your inner ugliness is coming through loud and clear.

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  51. It seems that about half of the women who pretend to be men that post on here acknowledge their gained privelege (at least while people are fooled) and half deny that there is any.
    To the above poster, I find your use of the word 'hags' interesting. What do you call ugly aging transmen?

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  52. MC

    It takes a special type of degenerate to assume to know better about the suffering within anyone's life other than your own.

    The whole "nobody knows the trouble I've seen" and "my situation = EVERYBODY'S SITUATION NOMATTERWHAT BECAUSE I SAY SO" is childish and reckless thinking.

    Please stop thinking like such a spoiled child. You are completely blind deaf and dumb when it comes to anyone else's life. Don't fool yourself.

    "3 years feels like an eternity when you're trying to fit into a role that isn't you."

    Where do you even get off, kid? How on Earth do you know who the "you" that YOU are so elegantly mindlessly assessing is? You don't. That's the answer.

    Grow up. That has to be one of the silliest most presumptuous things I've read in a while. And Dirt has posted more silly and presumptuous things than can be counted.

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  53. you've sealed the fate of the butch lesbian, Dirt. I'm ashamed because I hate that you are apart of it. You aren't our leader. You are repulsive. And so are your followers.

    Mindless fawners without a scrap of empathy.

    You shame us all every day Dirt. Every day.

    Its going to take the work of a true activist to undo the damage that you've done to the image of the butch/lesbian feminist community.

    We don't want you. Stop claiming to lead us because we want no part of what you are doing.

    To all of my trans brothers and sisters,

    I apologize on the behalf of the butch community. We are not all like this, I assure you. I acknowledge my difference from you and in my walk as a butch lesbian I am here to treat everyone like I would want to be treated. Period.

    ...its as if when oppressed groups find a group that is a bit more vulnerable, they take the knife of oppression out of their own backs and stab the vulnerable group. Wether it be to prove something to their oppressors, or out of pure childish jealousy...its wrong. And sick.

    I'll be no part of it. And neither is the greater butch community.

    Lets see if Dirt wants you to know if we exist. We shall see if this...person...decides to delete this or not.

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  54. i don't think 'dirt' is claiming to be some kind of 'leader'

    what a weird thing to think!

    i don't consider myself any kind of 'follower' either

    i don't ascribe to all of dirt's beliefs

    i just don't think there is any other place right now for people who are against transsexualism for any reason
    be it feminist or naturalist or sociological or whatever
    to work out our arguments

    and read about the very strange logic employed by the bulk of transpeople

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  55. " You aren't our leader. You are repulsive. And so are your followers. "

    So typical of one cult to label all scepticism as if it has a similar cult structure.

    And also typical that rather than address the issues, it just descends into abuse.

    "they take the knife of oppression out of their own backs and stab the vulnerable group. Wether it be to prove something to their oppressors, or out of pure childish jealousy...its wrong. And sick."

    O, BAD choice of metaphor, in that the ones who are sticking the surgical knife in aren't US. And what is more sick than removing healthy body parts because you've swallowed hook line and sinker the patriarchys line about proper gender identities. Goodness, they didn't even have to MAKE you have the surgery, people are lining up and DEMANDING it.

    And the usual thou shalt not criticise ANY group that is being oppressed, or dare to say anything at all, frankly. Who's trying to silence whom now? The patriarchy wins again, because the trans lobby will do that, as well as keeping all the SRS surgeons with their nice little earner. Hey, MORE bodies to experiment with chaps, let's have another go at trying to make a slightly more successful neopenis, let's try the thigh this time since taking a chunk out of the forearm didn't look so great................

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  56. Whether you think that or not . If taking T or getting a masectomy makes me feel more myself then thats what am gonna do.

    Im aware that other trans people have tried living as their biological sex longer. I know that 3 years isnt that much to someone who has tried for 20 or 30 years. I cant really help that though. I cant exactly try for another 17 years just to fit in with you.

    I dont care if to you. Im just a girl pretending. This is all about my personal happiness. And Haters gonna Hate.

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  57. " If taking T or getting a masectomy makes me feel more myself then thats what am gonna do. "

    the delusion in a nut shell.

    "tried living as their biological sex longer"

    Living AS your biological sex? Who's confusing sex and gender now? You are the sex you are you're STUCK with it and short of sci-fi genetic engineering and brain transplants there's NOTHING you can do about it.

    It just shows that that the real problem is believing in gender and believing that gender is inextricably linked to biological sex......................

    Kind of like the I don't do dreses and hair therefore I'm not female crap we had earlier. I say crap because it's the same crap that every feminist for years has fought against, only to find the trans camp bringing it back with even greater enthusiasm so they can get the surgery and hormone prescriptions their delusion says will cure their GID...............

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  58. You're absolutely right, Etch. Do what makes you happy, and forget about those who want to tell you how to live.

    As for Dirt, just look at her photo. She's a female counterpart to a drag queen, and not a very good one at that. It amazes me how she and others like her express their hatred of men, yet do their best to look and act like the worst caricatures of men, right down to telling women what we can and cannot do to our bodies. Who needs patriarchy when we have so-called "feminists" like Dirt?

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  59. I think you didnt understand what I said.

    I can never change my biological sex which is female but my gender is male and not female. Get me?

    I was going to go into point by point what you said but instead ill ask you what Dirt hasnt answered for me yet.

    How do I cure myself?
    What do I do?

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  60. "As for Dirt, just look at her photo. She's a female counterpart to a drag queen"

    You are a misogynistic prick. It seems that for you, a woman has to wear dresses , makeup and all that shit. Otherwise she is just a female counterpart to a drag queen.


    "It amazes me how she and others like her express their hatred of men"

    Dirt wrote that she hates men? Show me that.


    "yet do their best to look and act like the worst caricatures of men"

    Look how deep this awful gender ideology goes. If you don't look like a barbie doll you look like a "man".


    "right down to telling women what we can and cannot do to our bodies."

    Lol I doubt you are aware that you did exactly this.

    quote: "yet do their best to look and act like the worst caricatures of men"

    So if a woman don't obey the social conventions of feminity like Dirt she is "like a man" for you. It seems that for you being female means nothing than to obey a bunch of gender stereotypes. Like most trans allies you are a good example of conservative thinking mixed with the harmful ideology of gender.

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  61. I agree with you anon except on the insulting her bit saying shes a Drag King. Hardly. Her gender expression is very masculine but she genders herself as female so I will offer her the kindness she has not offered me and refer to her as female.

    Feminism at its core is wanting equal rights for all. So Dirts not really a feminist. She wants rights for some and none for others. Her variety of feminism is picking and choosing. Im not going to classify myself as a feminist because I think ill get some internet slaps but I want equal rights for everyone.

    I believe in personal choice but Dirt, not so much.

    Thanks Anon. I felt slightly outnumbered by the haters.

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  62. Anne,
    Anon didnt say that shes not a woman or that she a Drag King but Dirt is very masculine.

    Thats not what Anon said in regards to the barbie doll thing.
    Theres a lot of women who dont look like Barbie Dolls who are not as masculine as Dirt. Your talking complete extremes and exaggerating.

    You just ignored her point to spout hypocrisy. Dirt is trying to tell people what they can and cannot do with their bodies. All Anon did was make some comments about Dirt. Anon did not in anyway instruct Dirt or even say that Dirt should change her image.

    You claim that Anon has a scewed view on gender eh? Yet you think I am delusional for believing myself to be male? Now that is the true hypocrisy

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  63. "I can never change my biological sex which is female but my gender is male and not female. Get me?"

    Nope, same ole delusion, you spoke about living as your sex, which ONLY makes sense if you disregard everything feminism ever said about gender, and believe that you have a gender and it is either male or female. And that your gender should somehow mesh with your biological sex, or vice versa. That's the delusion.


    And feminism was NEVER about this pseudo-liberal everyone should be treated equally, that's just a total misunderstanding, twisting what feminisim is actually about so you can TRY and accuse those who are critical of the trans gender fantasy of not being proper feminists.

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  64. Well then maybe I am mistaken.

    But then what is feminism?
    Explain this to me

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  65. "Her gender expression is very masculine but she genders herself as female so I will offer her the kindness she has not offered me and refer to her as female. " more of the silly trans games with gender.............

    As far as I know, Dirt is biologically female. She's also butch, which isn't the same as 'masculine gender expression'.

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  66. Wasnt playing games.
    Was just saying that I will refer to her as she wants to be refered as.

    So Butch is not a masculine gender expression.

    Masculine - Having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men

    Gender Expression - How one expresses oneself, in terms of dress and/or behaviors that society characterizes as "masculine" or "feminine."

    Butch is a masculine gender expression. Not the same as male gender.

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  67. Clothing and Hair length have zero to do with masculinity. I nor any other Butch woman is "masculine". Try seeing without the gender straight jacket. Unless my pussy is "masculine" and no one told me.

    dirt

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  68. "Anon didnt say that shes not a woman"

    I've never wrote that anon said this. I wrote: if a woman don't obey the social conventions of feminity like Dirt she is "like a man" for you.

    Anon quote:
    "yet do their best to look and act like the worst caricatures of men"


    "or that she a Drag King"

    Anon quote: "As for Dirt, just look at her photo. She's a female counterpart to a drag queen"


    "Thats not what Anon said in regards to the barbie doll thing"

    I'm aware that I was talking about extremes when I wrote about the barbie doll thing.


    "Dirt is trying to tell people what they can and cannot do with their bodies"

    Is this so? You know that this blog isn't aimed at transitioners? She warns people about it. Have you read this blog? I highly doubt that.

    By the way: Aren't transgendered people trying to tell others how they should adress them? If you really belive that Dirt is trying to tell people what they can do with their bodies then you aren't better.


    "Anon did not in anyway instruct Dirt or even say that Dirt should change her image."

    Yeah I know. Dirt didn't do the same. Again this blog isn't aimed at transitioners.


    " Yet you think I am delusional for believing myself to be male"

    I wasn't talking about you. But if you are female and you belive that you are male then yes.

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  69. Thats very crude Dirt.
    You do look masculine, Maculinity can also be attributed to females.
    And unless people I dont know are talking about my gentials then no. Nobody told you.

    Are you seriously telling me that if you saw Dirt in the street. You would not misgender her by sccident. That she looks like a girl?
    Shes female yes. I am not disputing that but she is a very masculine female.

    The Drag Kind Drag Queen thing I said was a typo.

    I have read the blog. A ridiculous amount of the blog. Whether it is aimed at transitioners or not, that isnt the point. People come here who know nothing about transgender people and then make judgements about us. My morher doesnt like LGBT people and say if she saw this. She'd mimic everything Dirt is saying and wreck my head whenever I saw her. Ive talked to young transguys who've been her who've got depressed about whats been said. There was one article in particular that made me actually cry.
    This women is hurting people and whether it is targetted at us or not is not the point. It hurts people and my blog and my comments here are so people will have a logical opposing view. /RANT/

    Well Id like to be refered to as He and Him and the name I have chosen. It annoys me and causes me hurt when people dont do this.But you gals dont know me. My Nanny probably will never adhere to that but correcting her would only confuse her so I dont.

    Just a question to anyone here who isnt a supporter of Dirts? Why am I slightly creeped out by the fact Dirt said pussy to me? Really? lol

    But that is nothing like telling people that trans people are delusional and that we can be cured.

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  70. Etch, as you completely embrace the gender straight jacket and clearly are not interested in dismantling patriarchal structures which create that straight jacket as well as misogyny, your conformist comments are not welcome.

    dirt

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  71. lesbianplusfeministAugust 7, 2011 at 8:51 PM

    "But then what is feminism?"

    Feminism is a movement that aims to end female oppression.

    Jesus Christ, I wonder how old The Etch is. It's sad to see someone so utterly lost.

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  72. Etch, you said "Well what I meant by living as a female was wearing girls clothes, trying to give a shit about makeup and hair and crap."

    Lots of women don't give a shit about that sort of crap. Maybe you just never found the right friends! Oh, and now is the time for me to point out: don't believe everything you see on TV. What I mean is, the silver screen is full of misogynistic stereotypes about what females are SUPPOSED to be like, and how they're SUPPOSED to act, in a patriarchal society. Most women cannot identify with those women because they are the ficitious 2D creations of a male director's imagination.

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  73. What has the patriarchy given us?

    Let's see. Western "civilization". Didn'T that have something to do with massacring countless numbers of native Americans? Something to do with the slavery of Africans? Slaughter of the aborigines?

    Patriarchy? Didn'T that have something to do with the massacre of, literally, millions of European and American healing women and midwives, (pretending they were witches) so that a male patriarchal religion could rise to power, and so that men could push their way into the labour room. When men usurped midwives, countless numbers of women died tortuous deaths because male "doctors" didn't even know they were supposed to wash their hands! They would go straight from cutting up corpses to "helping" women deliver babies. This is all documented.

    Fast forward to today, and we still have the same fucked up patriarchal men posing as doctors in power, still causing harm to women, still butchering healthy bodies

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  74. Cherry, she clearly doesnt comprehend the misogyny inherent in everything she listed as patriarchal. Under the constitution women STILL do not exist.

    dirt

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  75. "Well Id like to be refered to as He and Him and the name I have chosen. It annoys me and causes me hurt when people dont do this"

    Why should people do it in the first place?

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  76. no, Parker, it's not the same at all.

    she was addressing this very confused young woman who thinks that if she's a girl she has to like to wear make-up etc. because those are the types of females she'd been around

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  77. Should the gays and lesbians who married in states and countries where it's legal for them wait until every gay and lesbian is able to? Absurd.

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  78. The mere mention of dirt's pussy makes me puke a little in my mouth... it's not just your outward appearance - i.e. the maniacal sneer on your face and your bulging eyes when you speak - it's your ugly, mean soul that make you repulsive.

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