Change Your World-NOT your Body

Monday, August 29, 2011

The Cult of Trans and the Terrible Influence on Children

When the Cult of Trans begins ruining the lives of children, particularly their own children? LOOK OUT! Helter Skelter!

An ftM mother of a seven year girl is up in arms because she claims her daughter is "transgendered" and should be allowed to use the boys bathroom! And what does she mean by transgendered: "My child is transgender; put simply this means he looks like and identifies as a boy, but has the body parts assigned to girls"!!!!!! This pure ignorance alone should be enough to have child protective services swoop in and remove this poor little girl from the home, not to mention quash outright any attention seeking Munchausenesque nonsense this clearly disturbed female is forcing on her little girl. I'm curious as to what "body parts" the doctors "assigned" as "girls"? Arms? Toes? Knuckles? What????? The article doesnt say.

The ftM mom transitioned when the girl was a year old, so the little girl has watched her mother's appearance and personality change basically from the little girl's earliest development. Given the female self hatred that informs female transition, one can imagine the horrific negative messages sent daily to this little girl. Damaging female messages, coupled with the innumerable blatant and subtle messages of misogyny spewing from patriarchy and this poor little girl doesn't stand a chance in hell of valuing herself or valuing any other female.

Making the situation all the more troublesome, is that the little girl has been home schooled until now. Therefore, on top of having had little chance of socializing with other girls and boys on a larger scale(which she expressed an interest in), she has been surrounded by her mother's disorder, which as we have heard from anyone remotely close to a transitioner, is ALL CONSUMING!


Frequently mentally unhealthy parents unfortunately transfer their mental issues onto their children. Such as women with eating disorders casting their disorder onto their (usually) female child till the child herself develops an eating disorder or abusive fathers transferring their abusive behaviour onto their sons to repeat later on. What is unusual about this case, is the ftM mother TRANSfering her disorder onto her female child, then requiring (by legal means if necessary) her child's disorder validated by external social structures, in this case the school.

One gets the clear distinct feeling that the ftM mother NEEDS her daughter to be validated as a "boy" in order for some "boy" validation herself! The Trans Disorder is the only disorder whereby the sufferer requires constant external validation for their self delusions by both loved ones and strangers alike, including by legal means. This incessant need for validation is the chink in the trans armor, it illustrates that at core levels the trans person his or herself doesn't really believe in their own delusion. But it is pretty fucking sad, sick and pathetic when you require not only your child's participation in your delusion, BUT that you require your child to develop the same delusion to justify your own!

This plainly is a case for CPS! Remember, you can call anonymously.

dirt
Enhanced by Zemanta
Share:

96 comments:

  1. I recently found a blog about a very similar situation. It was written by a woman whose husband suddenly decided that HE was a SHE, and showing no concern for his family, began to transition. Then, to make matters worse, their son decided that just like dear old dad, he was also a female!

    It troubles me when I see this sort of thing, where a parent becomes a transsexual, and the child (usually of the same sex) follows along. I agree with you, in that Child Protective Services should become involved in these cases... just like when a troubled parent claims that their 2 year old child is transgendered.

    Once a parent is "diagnosed" as being transsexual, the authorities need to pay close attention to the welfare of the children. Transsexualism is after all, a mental illness listed in the DSM.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Rather than call people "transgendered"
    why not just say they are "transgendering"?
    It really isn't what they ARE. It is what they are DOING. And they can't see the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Being trans starts at at very early age. I remember being 4 years old knowing I was a boy and wondering why I had to wear dresses to start kindergarten when my brother didn't have to ear dresses and have long hair. It was very overwhelming! This was back in like 1976.

    No one just wakes up and realizes they are trans. You feel it all of your life. It may take a lifetime to finally admit it but you don't just "wake up" to discover it.

    ReplyDelete
  4. All your life, meaning from womb to tomb, your life is informed by the gender straight jacket.

    No one is born in a vacuum. Just because you cannot critically comprehend how misogyny and patriarchal structures shaped your early life, that you were suppose to be "boy", which btw nothing will ever make you.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  5. I find it disgusting when people compare this kind of shit to REAL abuse. If any of you dare bother CPS with this bullshit, you should consider yourself morally responsible for taking time and services away from actual abused children who really do need help.

    ReplyDelete
  6. No, my DNA will never change but I am the man I was always meant to be. I am now finally happy and content with my life. I am the happiest that I ever been have before. For 37 years I was unhappy and after being on T for a little over 2 years, I am happy and my depression has finally lifted. I am no longer on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medicine and that is just awesome to me. I have a wonderful fiancee' of over 3 years and two wonderful children. I couldn't be any happier. Now to have my top surgery and I will have it made. That will be soon,like December or early January at the most. My family is very proud of me for as how far as I have come. They all support me and love me. My sister is a therapist and she even has said she has never seen anyone happier in their life than me, seeing as how depressed as I was before my transition. I started living full-time as a man on Sept. 30, 2007. I used the mens room al of my life so that was no big deal to me when I started to transition. I used the mens room as far back as grade school. I got in trouble a lot by teachers who told me that girls don't use the boys bathroom, but I did it anyways. I got in trouble all the time at school for it and my counselor in the 8th grade had a meeting with my mom and my mom told her to shove it up her ass. I have had support for who and what I am all of my life. It's a shame that we didn't have the technology we have now back then.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous wrote: "Being trans starts at at very early age. I remember being 4 years old knowing I was a boy and wondering why I had to wear dresses to start kindergarten when my brother didn't have to ear dresses and have long hair. It was very overwhelming! This was back in like 1976."

    Well, the gender pressures of society makes girls have to wear dresses and long hair. It is overwhelming, I agree! And I am a parent of a similar aged girl. But, little girls and boys should not be forced into gender straight jackets like that. You should have been able to wear "boys" clothes if you wanted. Really!

    But that does not make you male. :)

    ReplyDelete
  8. "I remember being 4 years old knowing I was a boy and wondering why I had to wear dresses to start kindergarten when my brother didn't have to wear dresses and have long hair."

    That's NOT being a boy, that's just making the SAD discovery that since you're female, you can't do the same stuff your brother does, for no damn reason at all!

    It's NOT being trans that starts at an early age, it's just the strictures that society imposes on boys and girls that start at an early age.

    What matters is how you respond to those strictures -- you either accept the system, but want to do the 'boy stuff' so try and convince everyone that you are REALLY a boy...

    .... or like many proto dykes and proto feminists, you stamped your little feet, demanded to know WHY girls couldn't do those things, tore your dresses, and did them anyway!

    ReplyDelete
  9. I agree with you in this case on the majority of points you made. I dont believe that the Trans parents of children should be monitored because the majority of us are sane human beings.
    It seems like a mad coincidence that this child is also Transgender when her mum is. If the child was put on puberty blockers or hormones before 16 Id be calling in Child Protective Services. But since the child is not doing anything but identifying a certain way, I dont believe its harmful for the child. If the child is Transgender then they will know it in their teens. If they are not, they'll start living as a girl.

    Although this woman does seem to be not realising that she influenced her child. If I had a child I wouldnt let the child know I was Trans. Id just be their Daddy till they were old enough to comprehend what Transgenderism is.

    Thats The Etch's two cents anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Lynn, seriously? Your cheese has clearly slipped off your cracker. Do the world a REAL service and go serve some coffee.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "If they are not, they'll start living as a girl."

    Yet another blase acceptance of the gender nonsense.

    You can only identify a certain way IF you first accept that the societal norms for males and females make sense. And there are LOTS of reasons why children should and do resent these norms. Rather than accepting that, we still try to fit people into one of these two choices, and no wonder then that children try to fit into what society will insist on imposing on them.

    We should LISTEN to children -- when they ask WHY girls are supposed to wear dresses, we should answer that there is no good reason. When a girl compains that she doesn't want to wear a dress because then she can't climb trees, ride her bike with a crossbar, and her legs get cold in winter, we should admit that yes, it is stupid, and it is fine to wear trousers if she wants. If a boy wants to wear his hair long, and wear pretty sparkly dresses, we should accept that as well. NOT say, in effect, make your choice, there are only two, and if you insist on doing the boy things as a girl, then you must REALLY be a boy and you'd better identify as one as well............

    Plus in a SANE society, it shouldn't really make that much difference when you're SEVEN what genes you've got! Just that our patriarchal society ISN'T sane, as the ever-increasing list of surgically-mutilated females should show.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hmm I underatns where your coming from. You believe that men and women are the same except for biological differences? Or at least thats what I believe you to be saying.

    Really its my own personal choice what I do to my own body.

    But I dont fit into the box of (stereotypically) male either. I identify as male but I am not madly macho. I do a lot of things and wear some things that are considered "femme". But that doesnt bother me and gender conforming does not bother me. I am not being myself who I percieve as being male for societal acceptance of my expression but more because that is how I see myself.

    I think a lot of women on this who think that Transgenderism is to do with patriarchy are going off the point.
    I got a lot more acceptance and my life was a lot easier when I presented as female.
    1. I was supposibly beautiful.
    2. I lived in my Mum's house and was going to school and had money.

    But

    3. Wanted a cock, wanted to be male, wanted to not feel sucidal anymore

    When I came out as male and started identifying the way I wanted
    1. I was kicked out of my house and am now living in a shitty flat. Been disowned by most of my family.
    2. Could not afford to continue with education.

    But

    So much happier than I ever have been. I feel free, I feel like I have this weight lifted off my shoulders and I dont pass all the time but doing this for me and being me makes me so happy.

    ~The Etch

    ReplyDelete
  13. Since this Tommy aspires to be a writer, I suspect that she may be planning to use her child's "transgender" condition as fodder for her writing. (See these websites for samples of Tommy's writing:) http://theorising.livejournal.com/
    http://stopping-t.livejournal.com/?skip=10 http://glitterandmold.wordpress.com/
    http://www.originalplumbing.com/2011/08/29/allow-this-trans-child-access-to-a-safe-bathroom/

    What I'm seeing is a deeply confused, mentally disturbed woman who is, to put it mildly, not a good influence for her daughter. The poor kid has TWO F2T parents and is now emulating her parental role models. She sees that what is valued in her home is females claiming to be male, so she is copying this behavior. I wonder where they find the doctors to co-sign this insanity. I'd like to know who these doctors are.

    I hope that Tommy has sobered up since she wrote her Live Journal. It would be good if she could find some real recovery from all her self-hating problems. The poor kid should not have to grow up around this. Maybe there is some relative who will step in and offer to take the child so that Tommy can devote herself 24/7 to her "queer, poly, kinky" partying and her Courtney Love style of narcissistic self destruction. This whole story is just plain sad.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Wanted a cock, wanted to be male,"

    Let's face it, you can't be male, you've got XX genes (as far as I know). Nor can you have a fully functioning penis.

    Wanting to be mistaken as an XY human being is a different thing, and ONLY possible on a day to day basis BECAUSE society has such narrow ideas as to what men should look like and what women should look like.

    Identifying as male seems to make sense, but only if you also accept the we can tell your sex from what you look like stuff that society comes out with. If you can imagine a society where that WASN'T always the case, then what is left to 'identifying as male'? Nothing, apart from a desire to have body parts that you don't have, and can't have.

    It's only because society is so stupid that no tits and bulge in pants means man. Okay, you can have that, but it doesn't make you a man, just a surgically mutilated XX human being.

    I must admit, this whole identifying as stuff sounds like nonsense to me. I could 'identify' as any damn thing I can imagine, but that doesn't make it so.

    If we had white people 'identifying' as black, and seeking out melanin adjustments and facial plastic surgery, we'd see it for the racist nonsense it would be. When black people use dangerous skin-lightening creams and have plastic surgery to try and change their features, it's gets labelled for the racist, self-hating nonsense that it is.

    Yet somehow, it all is supposed to be okay when it's not just -- I hate my breasts because they get in the way and men keep staring, but I hate my breasts because i'm actually a man.

    ReplyDelete
  15. "It's only because society is so stupid that no tits and bulge in pants means man. Okay, you can have that, but it doesn't make you a man, just a surgically mutilated XX human being."


    BADdyke, this one goes out to you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvOe15a4pN0

    ReplyDelete
  16. "It's only because society is so stupid that no tits and bulge in pants means man. Okay, you can have that, but it doesn't make you a man, just a surgically mutilated XX human being."

    BADdyke, this one goes out to you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvOe15a4pN0

    Listen. And you listen good...for once.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "When black people use dangerous skin-lightening creams and have plastic surgery to try and change their features, it's gets labelled for the racist, self-hating nonsense that it is."

    Baddyke, first of all you privileged fool, those things occur because of the racism of WHITE PEOPLE influencing African Americans that they are less than. It is not "racist nonsense" you idiot of EPIC proportions. THe only thing racist is that unbelievably ignorant comment you just made. It is not "self hating nonsense" it is because white people for over 700 years have put people of color through the ringer of self hatred. This cycle is so much bigger than you and your small small mind. You couldn't even BEGIN to comprehend it.

    Your privileged way of thinking has such a distinct STENCH it makes me sick. You are such an embarrassment.

    THink before you speak.

    ReplyDelete
  18. You haters like to call into question our reasons for transitioning by deconstructing socialized gender, but that is a double-edged sword. If there is no way for us to be "men", then there is no way for us to be "women" with any resonating sense of meaning besides what we bring to it. The tangible, physical aspects of transitioning are often overlooked as having meaning in and of themselves. I find ALL the meaning in my current physicality, WITH my xx chromosomes and my genitals. Arguing about the meaning of words is pointless.

    If you id as male and pass as male, then you ARE MALE with as much sociological meaning as can be attributed to that (or any other) word.

    I'm sorry but all the naysaying in the world won't change our lives as men.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Oh, yeah. You are a man now. Ok. and I now am chinese, because I felt different as a child. I remember wanting to be chinese every day.

    ReplyDelete
  20. So is trans a cult or a mental disorder?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Go ahead, Sillyme.

    Mock the experiences of others who live in bodies you've never lived in and never will live in. Mock the pain of others that you have never felt and never will feel. Mock the truths of others that you have never experienced and never will experience.

    Take some more ownership of others bodies are not yours and never will be yours.

    I pity you. And I hope you find empathy and kindness within yourself some day.

    Hopefully when you do, you won't have to experience hatred and bigotry for your "chosen faults" either.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I'm quite aware that it is racist nonsense when black people seek to lighten their skin, but I WASN'T saying that they were being racist (just that society is), and you have to be pretty damn stupid or pretty damn desperate to interpret it in that way.

    As regards the vid --right, so it's this magical internal voice again, that says 'you are male' despite what your genes and your body say. Heard it all before, and it's still nonsense.

    "If you id as male and pass as male, then you ARE MALE " and more magical nonsense.

    THINK a bit about what 'being male' means here. It means convincing others (given daft stereotypes) that you are XY when you're not. It means believing that being male means something MORE than being XY. It means believing in all the crap society feeds us about what being male and being female means.

    It means believing that looking male, acting male, calling yourself male means something. It doesn't, any more than the fact that XY males think that the way they act and behave and look is somehow natural and right.

    " If there is no way for us to be "men", then there is no way for us to be "women" with any resonating sense of meaning besides what we bring to it."

    Now you're getting it! Except if it's about meaning that you bring to it, why does YOUR meaning have so much to do with bodily mutilation and trying to convince others that you are something that you are not and never can be? Without science fiction advances in bodily reconstruction or gene therapy, you're always be a surgically constructed simulacra of a male body with XX genes.

    What does being male mean, without all the societal nonsense about gender and gender roles? Not a lot perhaps, secondary sexual characteristics, a tendency to be larger, stronger, hairier, but at the root all it means is that you produce sperm rather than eggs, and have a penis rather than a vagina. In terms of anything else that makes us human, not a lot. But what that means is so hidden underneath all this gender garbage that the disguise (whether that be maleness learnt from childhood cos you were born XY with a penis, or maleness you try to put on with the aid of hormones and surgery) becomes more important than our common humanity.

    ReplyDelete
  23. DIrt,
    So often you and your followers say something about how T and surgeries will never make us men. I'd like to know exactly what you mean by that? We all obviously know that we aren't going to take a shot of T one night and wake up the next morning biologically male. We also know that there is no surgery that will give us a normal functioning penis. So what it is exactly you are trying to remind us of when you say that?

    ReplyDelete
  24. "Now you're getting it! Except if it's about meaning that you bring to it, why does YOUR meaning have so much to do with bodily mutilation and trying to convince others that you are something that you are not and never can be?"

    Actually i got *that* years before I transitioned. There was never any question about how I wanted my body to be. There is no "trying" about my life now. YOU are so focused on this "mutilation" but for me it is a distant memory, and not a painful one either. YOU are so focused on what we are and aren't and can never be, but its only in your head that that has any meaning.



    You've built up a wall of prejudice that you can't see past at all.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "I'm quite aware that it is racist nonsense when black people seek to lighten their skin, but I WASN'T saying that they were being racist (just that society is), and you have to be pretty damn stupid or pretty damn desperate to interpret it in that way."

    And with that you've proven your absurd lack of intelligence. The way you said it was stupid. It was. Just admit it...gosh.

    Grow up, kiddo.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Yeah...

    Baddyke is notoriously stupid. There's an entire blog discussing how self righteous, bitter, and hypocritical she is. I was linked to this blog for proof and boy do I see it now.

    I feel sorry for her.

    I agree, grow up.

    ReplyDelete
  27. "Baddyke is notoriously stupid. There's an entire blog discussing how self righteous, bitter, and hypocritical she is. I was linked to this blog for proof and boy do I see it now."

    Hey, hang about on here for even a little while, and say a few trans sceptic things, and you apparently get your OWN hate blog, just like Dirt!


    "So what it is exactly you are trying to remind us of when you say that?"

    That your concept of what it means to be male is full of holes. That no one is actually prepared to get to the heart of the matter and explain WHY having a multilated and non-functional version of a female body counts as being 'male' in any meaningful sense.

    And that some people are so desperate (because they can't actually answer these hard questions about gender and female self-hatred) that the best they can do is try and label others as stupid because they focus on what gets typed in haste on a rather small netbook keypad, rather than what was obviously meant.

    Unlike some people, I don't need the approval or opinions of others on anonymous blogs to hold up my sense of identity............

    ReplyDelete
  28. It's so weird, that people here seem to be so pessimistic.

    Dirt saying nothing will ever make an fTm a boy.

    FtM's saying nothing will ever change their DNA.

    It's like neither side has any belief in the future. Doesn't anyone but me think that eventually we will get machines that can change someone's form down to the atomic level? Machines that could alter someone's mind down to every last memory? Then the trans people could choose either to restart their lives as an opposite sexed child or simply change their minds to fit their current body. Both answers would eventually become socially acceptable over time.

    ~A.M.S.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Oh, and Dave the Squirrel will finally be allowed to live a completely squirrel focused life responding to squirrel targeted stimuli and generally living the squirrel version of the good life.

    It may take 200 years, but it will happen.

    ReplyDelete
  30. And back to the same ole tired stuff again -- if you disagree with the trans cult, you're uneducated, mean and stupid.

    And still we get no answers to the hard questions we keep asking......

    ReplyDelete
  31. "trans cult"

    No...you aren't mean at all. I promise...

    (not).

    I've heard judgemental Christians say "gay cult" in the same respect.

    You're just as gross, BADdyke. Get over it and grow up you silly child.

    ReplyDelete
  32. "That your concept of what it means to be male is full of holes. That no one is actually prepared to get to the heart of the matter and explain WHY having a multilated and non-functional version of a female body counts as being 'male' in any meaningful sense."

    Actually we don't need a "concept" of what it means to be male. That is different for every male, and so is different for every transmale. We don't need to prepare to get to the "heart of the matter" for you and explain or justify our bodies. Your "meaningful sense" of being male is not the same as ours and has no relevance. We are the ones actually living as men. We are treated as men-for better or for worse-and that gives us experience you will never have. In your position, you have no knowledge or experience to speak from and all you can do is imagine. There is a privilege differential without a doubt, and I can understand the resulting anger. But I just don't see the point in arguing with our existence. I'm right here.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I've been on a lot of the FTM sites and I've noticed one thing...for all the testosterone that most of these people are on to be men they sure do still act like bitches. I've never seen more whining and crying especially if you say something that goes against their theories.

    ReplyDelete
  34. 1.) This would be a waste of CPS' resources. Please don't call them.
    2.) While minorities are busy fighting with each other, those in the majority are likely sitting back and saying "Hey! Thanks for doing our work for us." Whether or not you like it, the acronym is LGBTQIA but blogs and responses like these make sexual minorities seem like a big ole joke. *shrugs*

    ReplyDelete
  35. "Actually we don't need a "concept" of what it means to be male."

    Of course we don't, because if you were born with XY chromosomes and a penis, then you're male... and if you were born with XX chromosomes and a vagina, then you're female. It really is as simple as that.

    If you were born female and think you're a male, or born male and think you're a female, then that is s medical condition... it is called delusional thinking, aka schizophrenia. In other words you have lost touch with reality. Drop your gender therapist and find yourself a real psychiatrist.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I recently saw a video about OCD. Patients admitted that they knew their behavior was abnormal, but if they tried to abstain from those behaviors, their anxiety level went through the roof.

    Transsexualism is a lot like that.

    And both are mental illnesses.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Yeah, I agree anon 1:02AM.

    Same with Lesbianism and masculine women.

    Gross mental sickness.

    Yep.

    ReplyDelete
  38. The amount of bigotry in this world really makes me question whether life is worth living at all...

    From straight people who hate and/or criticize people who were born homosexual and invalidate their experiences/ feel that it is a choice.

    From you lesbians who hate and/or criticize people born with transgenderism and invalidate their experiences/feel that it is a choice.

    Dominant races who discriminate against minorities...

    This is a never ending cycle. Im pretty sure my hope in humanity has officially become nonexistent.

    I'm done. This is pointless. There's nothing in this life but hatred and pain.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Well what makes someone a lesbian? Being a woman and being sexually attracted to women? Because you think im a "woman" and Im sexually attracted to women. Ive most probably slept with more lesbians than any of you therefore Im more lesbianier than you!

    ReplyDelete
  40. I apologize for my snip this AM, was having a bit of a bad day and was just being flippant.

    Well, the truth is, I feel more "like a man" a lot of the time. It's like you have a choice: Boy or Girl, man or woman. I swear, when I have to fill out forms, each time, I struggle with checking the "female" box, because I don't want to be seen as our society sees females.

    As I get older it's shifting a bit. After many years of struggling with this, knowing a good handful of transmen, some of whom I love dearly, having a girl child and watching all the subtle and not so subtle social pressures on her, it has become abundantly clear to me that I could not lose the opportunity to radically love myself beyond all my fears.

    I am all for people changing their bodies in ways that they wish to. Tattoos, breast reduction, tummy tucks, face lifts, breast implants, top surgery, whatever. Change as you like. Live and present as you wish to.

    What I have trouble with is the magical thinking, this idea that you were born in the wrong body, or this magical trans narrative that because you wanted to pee standing up or were jealous of your brother's ability to do boy things, or that you liked to play with trucks makes you a man. It's so narrow minded. It's such a simple interpretation. Own it, change your body. But don't ask me to believe horse shit.

    I read Stone Butch Blues when it first came out, sobbed and sobbed, identified so much with Jess. It's a sad story... It started off this transgendered movement and I saw it take over the lesbian community.

    It's just such a huge topic... I mean, if you are Jewish and you get a nose job and look less "Jewish" is that antisemitism (or your reaction to rampant anti-Semitism). Of course it is! And, you will probably feel more comfortable in the world, interacting with people. You might have more confidence, you might get better reactions from people because you don't look as .... Jewish...

    But still, it's not like there is some narrative about how you were meant to have a smaller nose and you are just correcting it, because all along you were jealous of people with smaller noses, and that is proof that you were meant to have a smaller nose.

    Live however you want to live. Live "as a man". If that rocks your boat. I'm choosing to live as a woman. I feel like it is my job to redefine what it means to be a woman, every day. Feels pretty radical.

    But, one cannot deny that living as a woman in this and many cultures is a very dangerous thing, especially when you don't fit into gender stereotypes. Or even if you do. Punished either way.

    That's it folks. Sorry it's not exactly on topic... it's late, am tired..

    Hope this makes some sense.

    ReplyDelete
  41. "If you were born female and think you're a male, or born male and think you're a female, then that is s medical condition... it is called delusional thinking, aka schizophrenia. In other words you have lost touch with reality. Drop your gender therapist and find yourself a real psychiatrist."

    *OR* transition and get on with your life. Worked for me.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "But still, it's not like there is some narrative about how you were meant to have a smaller nose and you are just correcting it, because all along you were jealous of people with smaller noses, and that is proof that you were meant to have a smaller nose. "

    So you'll only live the way you want to if there is a pre-existing narrative out there for you? Sorry, pal.

    ReplyDelete
  43. SillyMe. I must say that makes a lot of sense and Im happy your happy.

    "born in the wrong body" is something I never say because this is my body and its nor exactly he way I want it to be but its still my body. It aint the wrong one.

    I accept that people have all different types of bodies and my body is a different kind of male body.
    BadDyke is gonna laugh at that but thats just the way I see it.

    Also In response to all comments that are negative in regards to Top Surgery. Top Surgery will improve my health because Ive got massive boobs and my back is fucked.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Even if we find out its the brain it will not stop the bullshit that is hurting people. So we all need to get to the heart of the matter which still means that we need to stop the gender bullshit. I'm a little shocked that not everyone is on board to do something about trying to stop this gender bullshit.

    And for a 7 yr old kid...gender is about socialization way more than your sex. That's why many of us flip even more during puberty because sex becomes more important and evident.

    ReplyDelete
  45. I knew I was a guy at 7. I buried it as a teenager. There was no reason then why I wouldnt like being female. I dressed the way I liked. But I wanted my friends to see me as a boy and I wanted to be on the boys team.
    Like one of the things that made me sad was that in Ireland, where Im from. Girls play tag-rugby and boys play real rugby and up untill then the girls and boys team were the same but then it changed so that the girls weren't allowed to play real rugby. It made me so sad that I could no longer play for the boys team and that I was seen as "soft" and "vulnerable". I wanted to be strong and tough like the other boys were seen.

    That is kinda gender conditioning but that made me feel so bad then. So bad that I can still remember crying about it now.

    Stopped playing sports then and still dont because Id still have to play on the girls team. Whenever Ive played in girls sports teams its sucked and Ive ended up hurting people because you cant tackle too hard...

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous said "There was no reason then why I wouldnt like being female."

    and then followed up with:

    "Like one of the things that made me sad was that in Ireland, where Im from. Girls play tag-rugby and boys play real rugby and up untill then the girls and boys team were the same but then it changed so that the girls weren't allowed to play real rugby. It made me so sad that I could no longer play for the boys team and that I was seen as "soft" and "vulnerable". I wanted to be strong and tough like the other boys were seen."

    Yeah, and it's a shame that school, society, family, community said you couldn't! You wanted to be seen as strong and tough. I get it. Maybe you just can't see it. But, that's what we are talking about here. Or at least a piece of it.

    ReplyDelete
  47. "I'm a little shocked that not everyone is on board to do something about trying to stop this gender bullshit"

    It seems many people don't want a change and reinforce the old stereotypes. Conservatism at its best.

    ReplyDelete
  48. @12:58AM
    You just proved how uneducated you are, love. Delusional thinking does not equal schizophrenia. What you are doing is no different then just a few short decades ago when lesbian and gay people where shipped of to mental institutions for loving someone of the same sex. If delusional thinking was the only requirement for schizophrenia there would be a lot more people on medication and in institutions. [This is not meant to offend anyone who does have schizophrenia as it is a very serious illness.]

    Also for the record more trans* people visit a "real" psychiatrist first. Also gender therapists are "real" psychiatrists. They have the little slip of paper that says so and they went to school for at least a good eight years to get that.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Umm.. guys it's LBGTQIA for reason.
    What's the next thing you're come up with? Are asexuals mentally ill too?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Sillyme, I like being a guy though and I feel happier because of it. Theres no reason why I shouldnt do what Im doing. If it makes me happy then thats what Im going to do.

    Im happy you've found happiness and Im sure it wasnt easy for you. But, I tried to accept being female too and I tried to love myself as female and I could not. I love myself now and will love myself more.

    At the end of the day this is MY body and I will do what I wish with it.

    This is Rugby anon. Also known as The Etch

    ReplyDelete
  51. It seems like this all really got legitimized after Chaz in her documentary is sitting in a hottub with a girl acting like a boy in nerdy glasses and they're 'boy bonding', in a group for kids that are supposedly transgendered. This is the first I've seen televised about kids being pressured or having groups who don't fit into gender norms, and the horrifying processes these children will go through as said in the documentary, where their hormones will be blocked at age 10 so they don't develope secondary sexual characteristics which kids begin to develope from as early as 10 onwards, and at age 16 they are all targeted for opposite sex changing hormones....this REALLY disgusted me. It's one thing to choose transition as a full adult, another to pressure a child into it, instead of letting them develope naturally and organically, and QUESTION the true sexism and limitations of sex roles, and not be held bondage to them in another direction(through hormones and surgeries).
    -MasterAmazon
    P.S. And I do agree that so many need others to feed their delusions. If it was so natural and organic a process, then folks could do it on their own without others' constant approval to feed their own narcissism. But expecting children to go along with it, or want to be like their new 'Daddy' or "Mommy", ack....what's this brave new world coming to?

    ReplyDelete
  52. "I accept that people have all different types of bodies and my body is a different kind of male body.
    BadDyke is gonna laugh at that but thats just the way I see it."

    Yep, there's the delusion. People, in general, don't have ALL different types of bodies, we have two main types, male and female. And what you have ISN'T a different kind of male body, it's a surgically mutilated female body.

    Let's face it, given what has happened to possessors of female bodies in this patriarchal culture, we could perhaps have predicted that one consequence might be that some possesors of female bodies ended up hating their bodies and what living as a woman in this society means so much that they would want to live as men AND mutilate their healthy female bodies in order to foster that disguise.

    The kicker is, what does it MEAN when someone claims they are male despite the fact that they have a female body -- it must logically mean that they are assigning more meaning to 'being male' than just having a male body and XY chromosomes -- and THAT is what feminists have been banging on about for ages, that 'being male' in that sense is just a social construct. So, if you BELIEVE there is more to being male than being XY, then you are playing along with the very thing that has been used all along to subjugate women.

    It's all just societys silly play-acting game of gender, and you've invested so much in it that you're prepared to replace a healthy female body with a poorly-constructed surgical simulacrum of a male body.

    "But, I tried to accept being female too and I tried to love myself as female and I could not." Except you still are female! What you seem to have hated is being seen as a woman, as opposed to a man, and that is a TOTALLY different thing. And surprise, surprise, I'm not that fond of being seen as a woman either, because our sick society has some pretty sick ideas about what that means. I'm just not that fond of what society thinks being a man is either!

    ReplyDelete
  53. "Also gender therapists are "real" psychiatrists. They have the little slip of paper that says so and they went to school for at least a good eight years to get that."

    And so did the ones who used to try and 'cure' homosexuals.............

    The medical profession, bless their little pointy heads, ARE still stuck with the idea of various gender roles that are SUPPOSED to correlate with secondary sexual characteristics of sex chromosomes, that's yer problem!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Baddyke...

    May I ask what university you attended?

    ReplyDelete
  55. "Baddyke...

    May I ask what university you attended?"

    Oxford, Cambridge, and Liverpool:
    (so that's 3 degrees, undergraduate, masters, and PhD)
    and I work as a university lecturer at a 4th. Not that some people will believe me, but you did ask..............

    But since anyone can claim any ole thing on t'internet, you'll just have to judge me by what I say.....

    ReplyDelete
  56. I feel bad that your students have to be taught by such a close minded person.

    ReplyDelete
  57. "I feel bad that your students have to be taught by such a close minded person."

    I would have said CLOSED-MINDED, but perhaps yet another exciting UK/US english variation? I'd tend towards the hyphen though.......

    Anyhow, a bit sloppy to label as close-minded anyone who dares to disagree with you.

    I'm not uneducated, or ignorant, or unwilling to listen, or any other of those stock responses -- I just have the temerity to STILL DISAGREE with the trans position, after much thought and soul-searching, and reading, and perusal of the scientific evidence and so on.

    Sometimes not all those who dare to disagree with you are stupid, or ignorant, or just nasty people. The point being, I think I have some insight into why some people believe the whole trans thing, and not just because I think they're all ignorant or stupid or nasty. Would be nice to see the same consideration going the other way, but then given the issues involved, also very possible that that will never happen.

    Chucking 'transphobic' at everyone who dares to be critical doesn't help either.........

    ReplyDelete
  58. I love you BadDyke!

    All the negative comments are whiney babies of this me first, instant gratificaiton, surgery fixes all generation.
    Who can't seem to grasp the simple concept that this blog is for WOMEN, and that they are not going to magically change everyones minds to coexist with their own twisted view of reality.

    I read your comments and I say outloud "yes! finally!"

    and yes people i have dear friends who are FTM, but they understand that we don't all HAVE to agree.

    ;)

    ReplyDelete
  59. "I love you BadDyke!"

    Many thanks!

    As I think I've said before, what motivated me to come here was a female friend who announced she might be trans. Personally, I just think she has a very rigid view of what is appropriate or not appropriate behaviour for a female, and since what she wants to do doesn't fit the 'female' category, she is managing to convince herself she must really be a man.

    I think she is in danger of making a terrible mistake. Attending F2M meetings and learning the whole trans mantra isn't helping either.

    ReplyDelete
  60. you all are IDIOTS if you think genes are ACTUALLY X's and Y's! Read a fucking BOOK! They RESEMBLE X's and Y's. These can be lengthened and shortened. That is what makes the genetic impact. You all are moronic, mis/under-informed, twats. And that goes for any Trans person who cannot defend themselves with a more proper response. Stop acting like a bunch of hillbillies arguing over the color of air. (I just thought of that one. nice)

    ReplyDelete
  61. Bullshit baddyke your credentials don't add up. Educated people know better than to think as you do. Myself included.

    ReplyDelete
  62. "you all are IDIOTS if you think genes are ACTUALLY X's and Y's! Read a fucking BOOK! They RESEMBLE X's and Y's. These can be lengthened and shortened. That is what makes the genetic impact."

    That's what they are CALLED, and by proper scientists with white coats and specs and everything.....

    And this lengthening and shortened stuff is just nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  63. "Bullshit baddyke your credentials don't add up. Educated people know better than to think as you do. Myself included."

    Damn, i'd better go back to my old colleges and hand back my certificates then..............

    Why is it so hard for some people to appreciate that genuine, educated, thoughtful, nice people can still disagree with one another? O, life would be so much easier if we could just find the educated people and let them make all the HARD decisions for us and tell us what we are supposed to think...........

    Or perhaps not.

    Still the same ole -- if you dare disagree with that trans mantra, you're uneducated, stupid and just plain ole nasty...............

    ReplyDelete
  64. Hey BadDyke, I know because you have mullet and wear wifebeaters and life the smell of your own twat that you figure that makes you a lesbian. but what the fuck do white coats have to do with anything? I have taught science for four years. High school science. The kind you obviously could not have passed. I'm a dyke, but the good kind. With a brain AND common sense. Not everyone can be born perfectly. There are genetic "flaws" this is why being homosexual was considered a defect by many countries, including the untied states. So it is quite possible for someones androgen gene to be longer and then that express a new type of characteristic. There are such thing as intersex people. You do understand that right? Not everyone is born just male, or just female. There are people who are literally born in between.

    Im not trying to defend the masses by any means, but seriously. Who are you people? Please don't represent the homosexual community in this way. with such ignorance and such a holy than thou attitude.

    You do understand Baddyke that EVER HUMAN BEING IS FEMALE up until a point.

    Ovaries drop and become testicles, the vaginal canal closes. Seriously. READ A BOOK. I cant sit here and educate you, as you reject any sort of rationality.

    This blog is stupid and a waste of internet space. You all have fun with one another. I hope none of you have any bigger decisions to make in the world other than, caffeinated or decaf.

    ReplyDelete
  65. It's really sad to see people who have experienced bigotry turn around and use the same bigotry against other people. You don't understand what it is to be trans anymore than the Bible thumpers understand what it's like to be gay, but that doesn't give you the right to invalidate peoples feelings anymore than it gives them the right to invalidate yours. It’s quite simple really.. You decide what's right for you, I decide what's right for me. Oppression is the absence of choice, and your statements are oppressive not intelligent.

    ReplyDelete
  66. ..."that doesn't give you the right to invalidate peoples feelings anymore than it gives them the right to invalidate yours."

    Having your feelings "validated" by others is not a right.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous when did I say that it was or that I needed you or anyone else to validate my feelings? I said that just because you don't understand something doesn't give you the right to invalidate it. In other words just because you don't think people can be born into the wrong body that doesn't mean that they aren't. You should try reading what people actually write rather than just asserting your own opinions next time.

    ReplyDelete
  68. "In other words just because you don't think people can be born into the wrong body that doesn't mean that they aren't."

    And vice versa. For the hard of thinking, just because some people are sincerely convinced that they were born into the wrong body doesn't mean that this is the real explanation for their predicament. Or even a helpful or healthy explanation. There are other possible explanations and approaches.

    What's all this right to invalidate nonsense? Sex and gender and gender roles and how they function in society effect every one of us, so we all have the 'right' to inquire into these issues, and we aren't under any obligation to come to conclusions that 'validate' your experience (or rather, your particular interpretation of your experience).

    In other words, we might disagree with your interpretation, O my!

    "Actually we don't need a "concept" of what it means to be male. That is different for every male.." If so, why bother giving all those different meanings a single name? Same problem again, the concept becomes so nebulous its meaningless.

    ReplyDelete
  69. "So it is quite possible for someones androgen gene to be longer "

    Androgen insensitivity syndrome isn't the same as trans.

    ReplyDelete
  70. www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/31/transgender-10-year-old-j_n_943654.html

    Notice the two or three paragraphs. Basically, Jackie loved dancing, the color pink, wearing ballerina outfits, sparkles, pretty shoes, and dressing up. So when Jackie's Mom went online and figured out that her child MUST be transgender.

    ReplyDelete
  71. I really, really don't think a lot of Dirt commenters understand what is being talked about here. I see a lot of folks misinterpreting that we are calling trans folks sexist. Or that trans folks hate their bodies. It's tricky... especially if transitioning helps alleviate the symptoms. Depression lifts, feel better, more success in the world (duh!)

    We're not calling YOU sexist. We are calling society sexist.

    Of course it feels better to be a man, all the social pressure shifts. It's really basic feminism and gender stuff. But not the kind that stops at "yeah I believe in equal rights". But, really digging into how gender divisions are created, who benefits from the inequity.

    The (sarcastic truth is): All women are born in the wrong bodies.

    ReplyDelete
  72. You know nothing baddyke. You don't know a single thing about what we go through.

    Stop with your self righteous belief that you know better. You don't. You are a blind deaf and dumb outsider in the face of our experience. You are meaningless. Wear that crown proudly. Because it's all you've got.

    ReplyDelete
  73. @BadDyke you realize that you're validating my point right? Remember the original point was that saying it doesn't exist or isn't real just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it isn't actually real, and that you're using the same arguments that homophobes use against you against trans people. So let's take your comment and see how that works out when we change a few words: "For the hard of thinking, just because some people are sincerely convinced that they were born [homosexual] doesn't mean that this is the real explanation for their predicament. Or even a helpful or healthy explanation. There are other possible explanations and approaches." That could have come from the mouth of any homophobe that I've ever met, but it didn't. It came from the mouth of a lesbian. We don't need your validation of our gender to know it's real anymore than you need the validation of any homophobe to know that your sexuality is real. Disagree. Perpetuate the intolerance and bigotry that you've been shown. Invalidate the existence of people like others have and continue to do to you. But we are no less men because of it. You and Dirt, and the other gays and lesbians like you though.. You are less, lesser human beings just like anyone else that would deny someone else's truth based solely off their own bigotry or ignorance.

    @ Sillyme Do you honestly think that anyone would go through major surgery, and waste tons of time/energy/money because of anything related to sexism? I can't speak for anyone else, but I was raised in a family that accepted me. If I wanted stereotypical boy or girl things be they toys/clothes/haircuts whatever I got them. There was no sexism, or pushing of gender roles. I was free to express myself, and encouraged every step of the way. Yet I still knew I was born in the wrong body. Societies institutionalized sexism is wrong, but it has as little to do with my gender as whether I like to paint my nails or work on cars. I am a man because I feel it as strongly inside as you feel your own gender. Chromosomes, genitalia, reproduction, surgery, society- none of these things tell us what gender we are. Our brains do.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Family live isn't the only place we're gendered. I know people who have great family lives but are ashamed and have issues because of the outside world.

    ReplyDelete
  75. you want to fuck a vagina with a FAKE dick. who is crazier? dykes are fucking weird too. what about dykes that wear FAKE DICKS TO FUCK??

    ReplyDelete
  76. We don't know if trans actually has to do with testosterone masculinizing the brain in development but completely feminizing the body. We don't know. But what we do know is that society has a lot to do with how we interpret ourselves and our gender. But since we don't know what if BadDyke was right? If we don't know then what if Evan is right? It doesn't mean we stop doing something to get rid of gendered bullshit!

    Some people use pretty ignorant ways to validate themselves as their gender. I know girls who validate themselves as women by getting bigger boobs and showing them off. I've seen transguy validate themselves by their dislike for "girl stuff." Now I'm seeing parents jump to conclusions and label their children as trans by 2? It's as if the mother searched for a medical condition to validate her son's behavior as if to make it more excusable. She found out what was "wrong" with her boy. I shouldn't be shocked since raising a girly boy doesn't have support groups or society's (newfound and in doses) support. It's seen as more invalid.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Transguys

    Dykes

    Straight girls

    All are known to wear dildos to fuck.

    Women and transguys don't interpret their usage the same way. Mental aspect is totally different.

    ReplyDelete
  78. "For the hard of thinking, just because some people are sincerely convinced that they were born [homosexual] doesn't mean that this is the real explanation for their predicament."

    False analogy. Saying there might be other explanations for homosexuality other than being born that way DOESN'T invalidate being homosexual, and personally I've always disliked the 'I was born that way, I can't help it' line that is sometimes used to try and keep the right-wing christians off our backs.

    False analogy, because being lesbian doesn't require anything else -- you just get on with it, and fall in love with who you want. Whereas trans requires either surgery or some sort of validation from others -- you want to PASS as male, you want others to treat you as male, agree with you that you're male.

    And being lesbian doesn't involve mutilating your own body to become what you think you always were..........

    "We don't need your validation of our gender to know it's real "

    Except we're still going to be at loggerheads, because you're in love with the idea of gender, whereas as a feminist I want to get rid of it.

    Let's not forget, some people are having disfiguring , irreversible surgery and taking hormones BASED ON these fucked-up ideas about gender. If I decide to become a lesbian based on some mistaken ideas about myself, it's not permanent, I could always revert to being straight if I decide I've made a mistake, that my ideas about my own sexuality were a mistaken understanding of my own feelings.

    As regards another false analogy -- the evidence is that attempts to 'cure' gay people fail miserably. The evidence as regards the real medical effectiveness for current surgical treatments for the trans condition doesn't even exist, as the research clearly states:

    "Despite these difficulties in interpretation of review evidence and its relevance to
    specific commissioning decisions, the conclusion about the strength of evidence
    regarding GRS appears clear. Little robust evidence exists....Like the conclusions made in previous reviews the magnitude of
    benefit and harm cannot be reliably estimated accurately using the current available
    evidence."

    http://www.changelingaspects.com/PDF/ScHARR.pdf

    Pages 84 & 85

    ReplyDelete
  79. "False analogy, because being lesbian doesn't require anything else -- you just get on with it, and fall in love with who you want. Whereas trans requires either surgery or some sort of validation from others -- you want to PASS as male, you want others to treat you as male, agree with you that you're male."

    Nope. I originally ended up at this trainwreck because of the who's transitioning posts - to support those unfortunate young people being ridiculed publicly. I honestly don't give a shit about any validation from you. Your oppressive opinions don't affect my life. I am free to be me regardless of how YOU feel about it. I don't have to try to "pass" - I don't need to be treated any certain way. I don't require anything from anyone to be who I am. At one time, I was on meds and had surgery, yeah. Now, I just am, without anyone's help or validation. You all mistake our debates with you as needing something from you. Look, if you want to spend the rest of your lives as one minority group oppressing another minority group, go ahead - but realize that just because it's your opinion of a situation, doesn't make it right. Thankfully, your desires to see transition stopped will never come to fruition. You're spitting in the wind and wasting time and energy that could be better used to actually DO something for YOUR community.

    ReplyDelete
  80. "I am a man because I feel it as strongly inside as you feel your own gender. Chromosomes, genitalia, reproduction, surgery, society- none of these things tell us what gender we are. Our brains do."

    Except not all of us hear that mystical interior voice informing us of what GENDER we are.

    Pretend as you will, unless you really were brought up on a desert island with parents that made no distinctions at all based on your sex, either consciously or unconsciously, then you can't escape the effects of society and societys gender roles.

    And the scientific evidence in humans is dodgy as well, and the mainstream view seems to be that what some choose to call gender identity is part nature, part nurture.

    Humans are complicated mammals, we're not like the half-female, half-male finch in Arnolds Nature article:

    Nature Reviews Neuroscience 5, 701-708 (September 2004)

    Sex chromosomes and brain gender

    where sex differences in the brain are clear, because males have a different song circuit to females.

    Indeed, the most recent paper I could find:

    Sex Dimorphism of the Brain in Male-to-Female Transsexuals

    In cerebral cortex states that:

    "The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized."

    That's male to female transsexuals BTW.

    also interesting to note the intial sentence of the abstract:

    "Gender dysphoria is SUGGESTED to be a consequence of sex atypical cerebral differentiation." [my emphasis]

    another interesting line:
    "Moreover, even if a link exists, it is uncertain whether the here observed morphometric features in transsexual patients underpin their gender identity or are a consequence of being transsexual. One highly speculative thought is that the enlargement of the GM volume in the insular and inferior frontal cortex and the superior temporal-angular gyrus could derive from a constant rumination about the own body. Brain tissue enlargement has been detected in response to training, and GM enlargement of the insular cortex has been reported in response to meditation, which involves mental focusing on the own body"

    In short, brain regions can CHANGE depending on what you do, hence it may not be brain first, hence trans, but trans first, hence brain changes.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Let's do the exercise again BadDyke: "Saying there might be other explanations for [being trans] other than being born that way DOESN'T invalidate being [trans]". I have yet to see you (or Dirt as well) make an argument that isn't reminiscent of homophobes, or blatantly ignorant. If you're really a feminist who wants to get rid of gender then why does the fact that some people feel they were born in the wrong body, and their want to correct it bother you? If you can justify your sexuality as being valid, and also justify lesbians who are more butch in appearance as being valid forms of expression.. Then why is being trans an exception? If sexuality is a spectrum with straight/gay/bi and everything in between, and gender is also a spectrum with butch/femme/fairy & fag all proudly validated in their choices of gender expression and what they do with their own bodies then why are trans people the ones who are wrong and disfiguring themselves? Sexuality and gender expression maybe something that doesn't require surgery, and can be easily be reversed if you change your mind. However if the fact that we have surgery is still your only sticking point then you're still no better than the Christians who say 'you can have gay feelings, but acting on them is a sin.'. Because that's exactly what you're saying. That we can have the feelings (and even express them in our outward appearance) but having surgery is wrong. I'm not in love with the idea of gender. Gender is an aspect of society that I would love to see abolished, but that's not going to make me feel anymore like the body that I was born in is correct. What am I in love with is the idea of everyone having the right to decide what's right for their own bodies so long as it harms no one else. You however seem to be in love with pushing your views of what's acceptable based off of nothing other than your own conjecture on everyone else, just like any other bigot is.

    As for your medical reference, I have to ask how much do you know about gay history? Because if you knew anything you'd know that you're still falling into the same patterns that homophobes use. Before we had evidence that attempts to 'cure' gay people fail miserably there was no evidence positively for homosexuality either. Little evidence exists because we are just as closeted, just as persecuted by the medical establishment, just as persecuted by society as homosexuals were before there was any medical studies to 'validate' their personal truths as well.

    I keep going back to the correlation between Dirt's and your words with that of homophobes in the hopes that you'll be able to take a critical look at your current stances. You both think, like Christians do as well, that you're doing people a favor and saving them from a life that they shouldn't be leading or that's the wrong path. What you're really doing is perpetuating a cycle of bigotry that religions started within society that makes people think that there are boundaries within the ways that we choose to express ourselves that should not be crossed.

    ReplyDelete
  82. "At one time, I was on meds and had surgery, yeah. Now, I just am, without anyone's help or validation."

    Except you are where you are, in part, as a result of the meds and surgery. Which certainly required SOMEONES help......

    ReplyDelete
  83. "and gender is also a spectrum with butch/femme/fairy & fag all proudly validated in their choices of gender expression "

    Again, what the FRIG has validation got to do with the price of eggs? Ditto all this 'valid forms of expression'. I obviously don't grok trans mantra gender speak, and in fact, I won't even try in this post.

    "but that's not going to make me feel anymore like the body that I was born in is correct. "

    This is the main point for me, its trying to discover WHY some people have such feelings. Some people are saying its because gender identity is innate, hence a good option is to alter the appearance of the body to better match the innate gender. I'd disagree with that, or at least say that there are other possibilities. That given the ruthless way society treats women, and given all the shit we get about what it supposedly means to be female and male in this society, it is no wonder that some females have so much self-hatred for 'female' that they are willing to countenance such bodily mutilation.

    Nature and nuture, I guess is what I'm trying to say, there are other choices other than -- it's my brain, I'm struck with it, better alter the body then.

    "What am I in love with is the idea of everyone having the right to decide what's right for their own bodies so long as it harms no one else." Except that surgical la-la land can't be traversed alone. SOMEONE has to peform the surgery, hence the ethical issue of whether such surgery is warranted, or the best option, comes in. You are part of society when you make those choices.

    Is harming oneself okay then, even when others see that that is what is happening, but aren't ALLOWED to point out that perhaps there are other reasons for wanting to do what you want to do other than you've got a male brain, or whatever other explanation is being offered today?

    "then why are trans people the ones who are wrong and disfiguring themselves? " Because given patriarchal society and the way society links sex and the 'proper' gender roles, it is very easy to see HOW some women, who don't fit the patriarchal sterotypes, can come to convince themselves that the only answer is that they are 'really' a man. The problem isn't their brain or their body, but the way that patriarchal society distorts womens relationship to our bodies.

    And I think that trying to save someone from mutilating surgery because of the nonsense that the patriarchy shoves in all our heads is a worthwhile cause, even if the patriarchy does it so well that the ones submitting to the mutilation aren't just submitting, but demanding it.

    "You all mistake our debates with you as needing something from you." O, but you desperately DO, you want me to AGREE, and stop pointing out that the patriarchy gets inside your head, and perhaps THAT is where the 'I'm in the wrong body' voice is coming from, not from yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  84. OMG. are you that dense? the only thing that needs "fixing" is not the body- but the mind and how the world views/treats gender.

    it's sad. it's sad to see so many of my friends having this odd man-worship, this strange man-centered excuse making, when we all live in this world with the reality of men doing 99% of ALL violence in the world.
    wake up people. for those of us who actually PAY ATTENTION to all of the injustice that is still happening against women- and not just going along with the flow and being complacent-(which is what those in power want, and also what is really easier...)

    ReplyDelete
  85. "You all mistake our debates with you as needing something from you." O, but you desperately DO, you want me to AGREE, and stop pointing out that the patriarchy gets inside your head, and perhaps THAT is where the 'I'm in the wrong body' voice is coming from, not from yourself.

    _______________________
    YES this.
    !!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  86. "and stop pointing out that the patriarchy gets inside your head, and perhaps THAT is where the 'I'm in the wrong body' voice is coming from, not from yourself."

    Perhaps I should add that I've got my own little internal voice, the one that keeps and kept telling me that I'm not WORTH as much as a boy because I'm a girl, that I'm too fat, too ugly, too uppity, too insecure, not clever enough and so on and so on.

    Because society DOESN'T value girls, and certainly doesn't value girls that question the rules, and persist in not being proper little girls.................

    ReplyDelete
  87. "Before we had evidence that attempts to 'cure' gay people fail miserably there was no evidence positively for homosexuality either."

    you misunderstand me. I don't need medical evidence to validate that homosexuality is a valid CHOICE. Nor do I need biological or genetic evidence to 'validate' who I choose to love.


    I was just pointing out that SOME people were convinced that homosexuality was a problem that needed treating (and some homosexuals still do seek out such treatement) -- except it doesn't work. And so isn't it important that homosexual point POINT THAT OUT, and that when it comes to 'having a problem with being gay', accepting that it's okay to be gay is a BETTER option that trying to get cured?

    So, isn't it also important that, since some trans people seek surgery, that we have the medical evidence that such surgery Is actually the best treatment for the trans condition, in the sense that people really are happier and healthier AFTER such surgery rather than the other alternatives that could be applied to 'treat' the i'm in the wrong body problem.

    ReplyDelete
  88. "Chucking 'transphobic' at everyone who dares to be critical doesn't help either"

    If they have no arguments they will just call you transphobic. That's the endless pathetic way of silencing critics.

    ReplyDelete
  89. When did "I'm the wrong body" even start?

    Who said it first?

    What did they exactly mean when they said it?

    I'm getting the vibe that the ideas of the "trans" movement have changed over the decades. Maybe I'm wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  90. If trans people feel it isn't a mental disorder but another medical condition all together are they people making an effort to get it removed from the DMS-V?

    Sounds to me that it will still be there.

    And if its removed from the DMS-V what happens to the medical treatment (ei hormones surgeries etc.)

    Seems to me docs are willing to help aide people with GID without knowing exactly why it occurs (or do they really know) and even believing that it is just a mental disorder. If that's the case then where did the surgeries and hormones and changing birth certificates come from? I know some people were in therapy for decades and nothing changed with them. They were still miserable but what kind of therapy was it?

    Has any medical entities tried to really make at effort to debunk gender? Because I hardly see any studies that would prove brain sex is the problem for GID which would explain why it isn't being removed from the DMS-V. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

    ReplyDelete
  91. When did "I'm the wrong body" even start?

    Who said it first?

    What did they exactly mean when they said it?

    I'm getting the vibe that the ideas of the "trans" movement have changed over the decades. Maybe I'm wrong.


    Really only cis people say that to describe Transpeople. Ive heard it a lot from Trans people lately. Im not born in the wrong body though, Im born in a body that I am uncomfortable with because it does not piece together properly with my male identity

    ReplyDelete
  92. But where would we call Dirt? I can't tell, your system being somewhat different from mine. I can only afford ONE call.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Well since my comment was ignored earlier I will give up on that thread of discussion within this thread, however I will leave this here.

    ~A.M.S.

    "
    It's going to be the future soon, and I won't always be this way

    Soon the things that make me weak and strange will be engineered away


    It's going to be the future soon, I've never seen it quite so clear

    When my heart is breaking I just close my eyes and it's already here
    "

    ReplyDelete
  94. "Im not born in the wrong body though, Im born in a body that I am uncomfortable with because it does not piece together properly with my male identity"

    Except where does that 'male identity' come from and what does it even MEAN? And WHY does that male identity have anything to do with bodily characteristics?

    a LOT of people, however 'gendered' come out with the brain-sex theory, because it is simple and sounds plausible when explaining reasons for SRS/GRS. I think even the surgeons who started doing the surgery used it (even if one of the reasons for starting the surgery was some sort of misguided attempt to 'get rid of' homosexuals). It SOUNDS plausible because the idea that males and females are essentially different in SOME important aspects (other than the totally obvious physical ones) is so entrenched in our culture.

    ReplyDelete
  95. "Do you honestly think that anyone would go through major surgery, and waste tons of time/energy/money because of anything related to sexism?"

    Cannot believe someone actually said this, apparently without irony. Must have just arrived from some other planet.

    ReplyDelete
  96. ""Do you honestly think that anyone would go through major surgery, and waste tons of time/energy/money because of anything related to sexism?"

    Are you an idiot?? Seriously.

    ReplyDelete

Copyright © The dirt from Dirt | Powered by Blogger
Design by SimpleWpThemes | Blogger Theme by NewBloggerThemes.com | Distributed By Blogger Templates20