Change Your World-NOT your Body

Saturday, July 16, 2011

Why does Patriarchy Persist?

Females have historically been the primary caretakers of children and remain post feminism the primary caretakers of children despite many being full time employed. Why do you think patriarchal systems remain in place when females are primarily responsible for raising each generation? Is not making mothers aware of these systems the greatest failure of past feminists?

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46 comments:

  1. Women being the primarily caretakers of children is not really the biggest problem imo. Women are the one who carry the child in their bellies for nine month and breastfeed them and so on, so the mother is the main caretaker of the child to beggin with. Even in matriachal societies, motherhood is central and often sacred.
    The problem is that many men see taking care of their child as "women's work" and refuse to do things like change diapers and feed the children by fear that it's going to make them less of a man. The real problem is that often, the mother is the ONLY caretaker of the child, which is sad for both the mother, who has to sacrifice herself and do all the work, and for the children, who miss on the oppoturnity of spendig time with their daddy.

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  2. Children follow the lead of the person in the relationship who has most of the power- time spent caretaking does not seem to influence this. I'm not saying that mothers aren't reproducing patriarchal norms- however, if children see mother defering to father they will automatically know who matters most.

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  3. One, mothers are not the only influence or even the main influence on a child's behavior, particularly once the child begins to go to school. Two, mothers are also raised in the context of patriarchy, even if she is trying to raise her child differently. Three, feminism isn't an idea that has caught on universally. Anti-feminism has been much more popular for years. I do not believe that the world is post feminist, nor do I believe that feminism has "failed." I believe it is still at work and will be as long as there is binary oppression in this world. Blaming women for what is wrong is an ancient practice. It is not a helpful one for anyone who really wants to see change in the world.

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  4. Patriarchy persists because no matter how loving a mother is, no matter how feminist, no matter how insightful, she is not powerful enough to fight the cultural forces of male dominance.

    The only thing that will change boys' behaviour is for their male elders to be stripped of their power. This can be done through law changes, getting women into politics, eliminating the sex industry, (as the lesbian prime minister of Iceland is attempting to do). Or failing that, a full-scale revolution.

    Plenty of single mothers have no man in the house to defer to. Single mothers are better for the women's liberation movement than mothers who live with an "egalitarian" man, I would say.


    Put simply, men *like* male dominance. THey enjoy it. And history tells us that a lot of men enjoy being cruel. The cruelty of the Japanese military in Asia is infamous. Cracker-barrel pyschologists and historians blame the MOTHERS of the men who committed the atrocities, using this or that Freudian theory.
    THe truth is, the men, themselves were responsible for their heinous crimes, not their mothers. The same goes for the Americans in Vietnam who raped and killed entire villages, the same goes for the British in Australia... etc.

    The only way to topple patriarchy is to irrevocably alter the social structures, and eject men from their positions of power.

    Men have proven themselves to be the most incompetent and INEPT of leaders. They really have shown they have no moral intelligence at all. They hold up token good men, such as Shindler, forgetting that Schindler was just another man with a god-complex using his male power in a completely male-dominant society.

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  5. Men cant be blamed for the failure of feminism.

    dirt

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  6. Men are entirely responsible for the atrocities they commit: the rapes, the murders, the wars.

    Mothers have no political or economic power to stop the pillaging. Men have stolen it from us over the centuries.

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  7. I agree, but women are responsible for feminism which informs women of how patriarchal structure negatively shapes their lives so those structures can be torn down one by one. It takes two to tango.

    dirt

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  8. I agree. Lots of women, (too many) are COMPLICIT.
    Many are just doing what they can to survive, but not all. Lots have their heads in the sand, and just stick their fingers in their ears and sing "La La la" when they hear something unpleasant called the TRUTH.

    If my daughter turns out to be het, I'm going to strongly advise her not to live with a man; and I'm raising my son to not expect a woman to live with him, and to be very GRATEFUL if one does decide to.
    Lots of mothers are calling bullshit on the gender fonforming. They know there's nothing wrong with boys in pink and girls in treehouses. BUt unfortunately, many more mothers are frightened of their kids not conforming.

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  9. Most women arent even aware of their complicity. Thats where feminism failed women.

    dirt

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  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. @Extrospection July 17, 2011 12:16 PM



    "Your son especially - you realize you're raising him to feel inferior, right? You're dangerous to their psyche and people like you should stop reproducing and breeding even more hate."

    By informing her son that he is not entitled to everything (and every woman) and should not expect automatic entitlement based on his gender is equated by you with making him feel inferior!!!! LOL. I sense lurking in the background but left unsaid is the idea that she is emasculating him also. The ageless fearful cry of the patriarchy rears it's head again

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  12. "If my daughter turns out to be het, I'm going to strongly advise her not to live with a man"

    I would never do this. I'm for equality. I will advise my future daughter to not be depend on a man.

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  13. Thank you, Canadian!

    Those are the same arguments that racist people love to preach too. Somehow informing a person that they are superior in this world but should not try to use that to their advantage is somehow stripping of whiteness, maleness, or "otherness."

    --

    Patriarchy still exist because majority of the world is not appreciative of females. You can't raise your child in a bubble. So countries that appreciate women more than others are halted by the countries that oppress women even more. It's more of a political game with wanting allies, resources, and $$$ than it is about women's rights. So its no wonder that patriarchy is being repeated by women (its brainwashing) especially without having any powerful backing or strong men who would even risk letting them have a piece of the powerful pie..so they can stop the madness. Sure I think women could do this on their own but any powerful movement has/needs allies.

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  14. Anon 1:22

    Exactly. Thank you. A girl can be raised to expect to be treated equally, and not to tolerate any less - without being raised to distrust ALL men, and certainly without fear of commitment and cohabitation.

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  15. @Extrospection and Anon 1:22

    "Exactly. Thank you. A girl can be raised to expect to be treated equally, and not to tolerate any less - without being raised to distrust ALL men, and certainly without fear of commitment and cohabitation."

    Note that Cherryblossem said she would ADVISE, not tell, demand or expect. The more disturbing question: Why is advising a daughter being equated with engendering mistrust of all men?

    By this logic all lesbians and single straight women who choose to have men in their lives but not live with them are "distrustful" of men. Why is it that anything less then deferral and accomadation to the needs of males is catagorized in pejorative terms?

    THat is the issue and the reason for this blog entry of dirts

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  16. When it comes from a parent, "advise" is practically an indoctrination and expectation (at least from my experience). And to say should not live with a man, but it's ok to live with a woman -does- imply an inherent distrust with men as a general. Training hetereophobic behavior is not somehow more noble than training homophobic behavior.

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  17. Thank you Kor - my point EXACTLY.

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  18. @Kor

    "When it comes from a parent, "advise" is practically an indoctrination and expectation (at least from my experience). And to say should not live with a man, but it's ok to live with a woman -does- imply an inherent distrust with men as a general. Training hetereophobic behavior is not somehow more noble than training homophobic behavior."

    She did not say or imply it was "ok" to live with a women, she also was not hetrophobic. She never said "don't have sex with a man", she advised her daughter not to live with one... very different things.

    Pretty interesting how poster after poster proves the point about persistance of patriarchy..these posts are indicative of how pervaisive and through sexist indoctrination is.

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  19. Canadian - stop with the smoke & mirrors... no one has said anything to uphold the patriarchy. Every time someone disagrees with the extremist thinking displayed in this blog, the radfems cry misogyny and are like, "see???" It is sexist to suggest that if a girl were to fall in love and be in a relationship with a man, that she should not choose cohabitation - because he's male - therefore, he must be an oppressor. It's BS.

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  20. @EX
    "It is sexist to suggest that if a girl were to fall in love and be in a relationship with a man, that she should not choose cohabitation - because he's male - therefore, he must be an oppressor. It's BS."

    I am not really sure why the expectatation exists for you that anyone should give up their independence and live with someone else because they are in "love"...I think this is what CB is getting at....but keep dodging my points ex...

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  21. "Every time someone disagrees with the extremist thinking displayed in this blog"

    Hahaha that's nothing compared to the rage when someone disagrees with the trans extremists.

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  22. Maybe I took her comments differently but I felt she meant she would not advise her daughter to move in with a man because women need to move away from the idea of moving or marrying men to be valued. Its the same for men (as she brought up her son) she doesn't want her son to clock up a bunch of women so he can feel more of a man. He should be appreciative that someone loves him or would move in with him - she used the word "decided" to. I feel the same with a daughter. She should value her man as well. But if she felt that women should not live with men then I doubt she would want her own son having a woman staying with him etc. or if she does feel that way then she should clarify. Again I didn't make the statement so I don't know.

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  23. Anecdotal experience is just that. I have tweens and teens and I can tell you that my "advising" is not seen as "expectation" or "indoctrination." Even my demands and pressures (when they were younger) weren't -- whether it was "clean up this room now!" or "we follow these rules because of our religious subculture and therefore you must too and don't question." Somehow, my children ended up being freethinkers and free spirits despite me.

    Of course, other kids / teens do take their parents "advice" in that manner - and their parents give it in that manner too. Talk about individual dynamics!

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  24. We live in a world where women still do not have the rights of choice. Men can take a wife (or wives depending on the country) in every country we live in but women cannot take a husband in the same sense. That's what I felt the above discussion was about. That's why we live in a world where men feel that they can have any woman they see walking down the street. That's why we have ideas of rape that we do. "She asked for it." "She begged for it." "She got what she deserved." That's why we have young girls aged 10 who fight to divorce old men! That's why we have women who are killed for leaving their husbands or stoned for adultery yet let a man leave his wife....a piece of cake...

    I'd advise my children to value the person they love but to understand that they should be grateful of that love not that it is owed to them. I would also remind my son that the world will give him superior options that his sister will not have and not to take those options ever! I will also remind him that as we are minorities that the majority will have superiority every single time in this world but to never let that get you down.

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  25. I also have to agree that we do live in a society that women tend to fall in love and move in with the man (the other way around is not common). Why is that often the case? Why not both get a place or why not have him move in with her? I tell you any time I have ever seen a man move in with his gf - people view him as less than a man. Any time a man wants to stay home parent or the situation makes it so he would be the one - he is labeled less than a man. Why is it common for the woman to have to move when the husband finds work when if it is the other way around no one wants to move as quickly? "I moved here because of my wife's job..." honestly....I have hardly ever in my life heard that. Women making more $$$ than men especially in relationships can be problematic. Women tend to fall in love, get married, and change her name (the other way around is rare and now more people are combining names.) And if she puts up a fuss about her last name people call her radical.

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  26. Actually...

    My uncle has just moved half way across the country (found a job elsewhere) to accommodate the living interests of his girlfriend.

    Don't generalize and assume something is so just because you havent "heard" of it or "seen" it with your own vision.

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  27. My older brother moved to be with his wife, who is differently abled, and does all the cooking and cleaning for her, as well as run all her errands. He treats her like a queen and adores her. And I've heard of PLENTY more men like him. Yet, all the blanket generalizations that go on here make it appear that man = oppressor/batterer/authoritatrian

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  28. First off you shouldn't contradict yourself in your own statement. Second, I wasn't even claiming that I had never heard of such a situation. I said I hardly ever did. I am stating it is rare. I am stating that more men and women should support each other and go where the jobs are. I am stating it is sad when a man is seen less of a man when he moves in with a woman or that a female should be pressured to always move in with the man or that men shouldn't feel less of men when their wives make more $$$ and women shouldn't feel like they are emasculating them when the wife makes more $$$ (or did you not read that?). Somehow you took that as an attacking statement and tried to inform me about your uncle as if I would have some angry reaction or something? I have no idea what you wanted to get out of me. He sounds like a swell man for supporting his wife's goals! :)

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  29. I for one am not making blanket generalizations. I'm pointing out power. Power that can even oppress men which I have stated but that all gets ignored. It's all fucked up is what I have said.

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  30. Interestingly enough, I've had relationships with three very controlling, oppressive women, one of which was extremely emotionally abusive. Women can be just as nasty as the men who are.

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  31. We are talking about patriarchy which is about men being in power of every single thing in our entire world. Somehow having an issue with a patriarchal society and the issues inside that society means blanket generalizations about all men being evil. People are pointing out issues with patriarchy and the power and control it has on our world. There should be nothing controversial about trying to demolish patriarchy. We cannot discuss patriarchy without discussing the power that men possess and can manipulate in our society. Patriarchy needs to go just as bad as racism, sexism, and all the rest of the crap. But you cannot talk about racism without racial discussion of the racial hierarchy. You cannot talk about sexim without patriarchy/sex.

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  32. There's no denying that discussions of patriarchy with most lesbian feminists usually ends up in negative attitudes/assumptions about men in general.

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  33. Did you just make a blanket generalization about lesbian feminists when you wish to not for them to make blanket generalizations about men?

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  34. I see what Extrospection is saying.

    There is a vindictive bitterness in the air of this conversation and it comes off as abrasive. Which, at times it needs to be. (Speaking as a person of color who has had it up to HERE with white privilege and those in denial of its despicable existence, I can henceforth empathize).

    Though, generalizations are absurd. Each and every one of them. They have no intellectual or logical place in this type discussion. Especially one concerning the evils of patriarchy.

    Though, yet again, sometimes things can be taken too far. For instance certain radical feminists who are dogmatic and loose-cannon minded about their ideologies (idiocy).

    See what I'm getting at here?

    Btw you can call me Lee if you need to address me. :)

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  35. bickering and infighting destroyed feminism. Power Hungry women who wanted to be important destroyed feminism. Often, people start out with thier hearts in the right place, but once given attention or a little power it goes to their heads. Dirt is right.. Men are not responsible for the failure of feminism.

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  36. The reason I would advise my daughter not to live with a man is because what the REGIME of patriarchy doesn't tell you (because regimes require censorship to succeed) is that a woman is more likely to be raped and murdered by a man she knows, usually her spouse/husband. TWO women a week are murdered by their SPOUSE in the UK alone.

    What this means is that women are safer, far safer, on the streets or living alone than living with a man.

    The patriarchal propaganda pretends the opposite is true. Patriarchal LIES tell women they're safer with a man in the house.
    This is completely untrue.

    So while I won't be DEMANDING that my daughter live alone, and if she wants to live with a guy I'll respect her wishes, what kind of mother would I be if I didn't present her with the facts before she made her decision.

    Opting to live with a man is one of the most dangerous decisions a woman can make.

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  37. (extrospection seems to always take offense at 'man-hating' as though she's a man)
    honestly i know plenty of super-sweet gentle guys

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  38. There are plenty of gentle males, but that doesnt exempt them from playing a role in patriarchal structures that harm women. It is up to each and every women to educate those men on that.

    dirt

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  39. Males in general identify with other other males, not women. Males learn their attitudes towards women from other males, typically the males in their family - fathers, step-fathers, uncles, grandfathers. These attitudes are passed down from generation to generation. As a result, it is irrelevant what a mother does or does not do. It is not his mother a boy identifies with or who he will model his behavior after.

    Children's brains move at approximately the speed of light. Much faster than any adult's (the brain slows down as we age). Children absorb and pick up on everything. It takes them no time at all to pick up on gender roles and sexism, especially today, where we all are bombarded by hundreds of sexist images and folks in gender roles a day. So by the age of 4, it's not uncommon to hear a boy say he's better than girls, even tho he doesn't even know what sex is yet. This gives many the impression that it's stamped on their Y chromosomes or something. But it's not. That's just how fast children absorb and learn.

    Every boy is indoctrinated into the ancient cult of the brotherhood and masculinity once he steps out the front door. Especially once he reaches school age. Boys pack and are very conformist and hierarchical. Acceptable behavior from males within the group is very strict and narrow. They have some leeway but not much. One of the first orders of business? Males are expected to betray their own mothers. "What are you, a momma's boy?" they jeer. For his own protection, he'd better not say yes. And so, he will betray her. Other females are easily betrayed once he gets past his mother.

    As many males will tell you, they're only as strong as their weakest link. Those weak links get the living crap beat out of them until they conform.

    The short of it is, boys have little choice but to conform if they want to stay in one piece. So what matters to them is what the boys think, not what the girls think. Because it is the boys who can and will hurt him. Unfortunately what this means is that humanity is stomped out of boys at a very young age in order to conform and comply with the brotherhood.

    Hope this explain things a bit, Dirt. The outlook is rather bleak. The way I see it, women have 2 choices. They can opt not to have sons, or they will have to raise him on Pluto, away from the other boys, male family members, and the media. Otherwise the brotherhood will indoctrinate him.

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  40. Uh oh. My original message was deleted....so let me post it again.

    The fact that you are using a Western concept and applying it to a non-Western practice shows your ignorance and insensitivity regarding cross-cultural issues. Stop misusing and bastardizing people's cultural practices - Sir Dirt - to further your own misguided cause. You are no better than Bible-thumping Christians who use the Good Book as a mechanism to preach hate against same-sex behavior.

    This response won't stay here long either, I suppose. You're quite entertaining, sir.

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  41. @dirt

    Why is it up to each and every woman to educate men? Do you think men are incapable of educating themselves, or do you think that caretaking is women's work?

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  42. Dirt, why did you delete my comment about my girlfriend wanting me to get my breasts enlarged because it turned her on???? Do you not want people to know that women too lust after big breasted women or women in general???? I mean really!!!! You keep the posts up here that you want and that see fit to your cause but I too am a lesbian and was just telling the truth. Not all men are assholes. Women are assholes too. I couldn't stand that my ex was looking up every skirt or looking down every females shirt. Women are dogs too! It's not just the men. I know plenty of females at the gay bar that I go to that are complete dogs and assholes. All they talk about is getting pussy and getting a piece of ass and then leaving them to be with their girl at the time. Women are dogs too!!!! My now girlfriend was raped by a woman in the gay club that we go to by another woman. It has taken her years to get over it and she's still not over it yet. She still has nightmares and has P.T.S.D! The woman who raped her knew she was never with a woman before yet violated her in the bathroom without her consent. She told her that she wanted some "fresh pussy", and those were her words. I still deal with the nightmares that she has and the flashbacks.

    You deleted my comment because you know for yourself that woman can be just as much a dog as a man can be. My girlfriend is the proof of that crap.

    I am giving my FTM friend permission to post this comment on his blog just so everyone knows that it's not only men who can be dogs.

    You can delete it but it will be on his blog along with the other comments on your page. Too bad that he has walking phenomena right now or it would be posted tonight. I may get his permission to use his password and post it on his blog anyways.

    Men can be dogs just like women can be dogs! My girlfriend didn't deserve what she went through but thank God to one of our gay MALE friends it was stopped. It's just a shame that it was TOO LATE. The damage was already done. It's just nice to know that she got the fuck beaten out of her out in the parking lot as she got kicked out of the club. She deserved every kick and punch to her face that was given by all of us. Come to find out, she raped a 13 year old girl and is registered as a sex offender for having sex with a 14 year old girl. It's also good to know that she is homeless now due to the fact that she can't find anywhere to live due to her sexual offender/child molester status.

    Just so you know!!!!

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  43. Sharon H,

    I havent deleted any comments. Might wanna verify your comment went through before jumping to untrue conclusions.

    Women are products of patriarchy, of course they are going to be negatively influenced by it. Hence the reason I work to dismantle those negative structures.

    dirt

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  44. Educating has nothing to do with "caretaking". Males have no reason to change patriarchal structures, it is in their best interest that nothing change.

    dirt

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  45. What never seems to be addressed by the "not all men are like that" and "women do it too" crowd are the power disparages between men and women, politically, economically, socially and culturally, or the fact that women get pregnant and men do not. They like to pretend we're all equal now and all playing on the same level playing field and it's the same thing. But we all know better than that. Or should. I mean, do Native American men have the same power as white men? Do poor men have the same power as wealthy men? Does Haiti have the same power as the U.S.? Do women have the same power as men? The answer to all of the above is no. Not even close. The power disaparages between these groups of people is an ocean apart.

    There are always exceptions to the rule. That is a given. But these exceptions do not negate the majority or the norm. With that in mind, the fact is: males are responsible for 97% of the world's violence. Yet all too many folks want to go on and on about the exception to the rule - the 3%. I don't know where they learned to do math, but 97% does not equal 3% or offset it. It's not even in the same ball park. It is nothing more than an attempt to divert and cover up men's methodical and systematic violence against women. Who does it benefit to divert or cover up this fact with exceptions to the rule? Men, of course. So they can keep things just the way they are. Which benefits ALL men, including the exceptions to the rule.

    I'm sorry if you're one of the folks who fell for men's little bag of tricks. But now you know better and can stop being such a tool. You see, anyone can be prejudiced or commit crimes, but not everyone can oppress groups of people with it. It takes real power to oppress. And that's where some folks' assertions go totally sideways. When they ignore the power disparages. And this is exactly what keeps the powerful in power and allows them to continue to oppress. When we bestow equality on unequals, it not only remains unequal, but widens these power disparages. Because now the powerful can pretend we're all equal now and the oppressed have no case. What they forgot to do is zero out those scales before they started adding equal weight to both sides This is like running a 10 mile race and giving men a 9 mile head start and saying it's fair now because you both start running at the sound of the gun. Slick, no?

    So I'm sorry folks, but exceptionalism just isn't going to cut the mustard. It doesn't negate the norm or life for 97% of folks on the planet.

    P.S. Anonymous said: "The fact that you are using a Western concept and applying it to a non-Western practice shows your ignorance and insensitivity regarding cross-cultural issues."

    OIC, so patriarchy doesn't exist on your planet? It only exists in Western culture? Last I looked, patriarchy was global.

    So tell us about your planet, Anonymous. Where women apparently are called, "sir." Which indicates the same gender roles which exist in the West, exist on your planet too - which means patriarchy is alive and well on your planet as well. So why does patriarchy exist on your planet if you do things so differently?

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  46. It doesn't matter the hard job a mother had to do to raise her children, when the children begin to go to school, to be with other like them and to learn the social hierarchy, they stop listen her. The problem is how family is constructed. Our primary form of family was the commune, like other primates. Now, we put the responsibility (and the guilt) on a single powerless woman. If more women would be aware of how the system works, yeah, we could do a change, but stop blaming radical feminism, because is the movement that more backlash has got and with the trans trend is much much worse for feminists to be heard.

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