Change Your World-NOT your Body

Thursday, June 9, 2011

Women's Colleges continue being invaded and undermined by Transmen

Transman tries to use his male privilege to gain position to interview new female students at Wellesley...

dirt
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52 comments:

  1. There are assholes in every race, creed, gender, and orientation. This is not a reflection of all transmen. MOST transmen have zero desire to attend a women's college or be in a women's only space. You couldn't give me a 100% free education at a women's school. I simply don't belong there. Transmen don't belong in women's only spaces.

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  2. Did you see those big and growing numbers of ftm's once and currently attending Wellesley?
    Do mtf's attend traditionally all-male institutions?

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  3. I'm not sure s/he was trying to use 'male privelege-' more like trying to play both sides

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  4. If the premise Dirt states is true in that Transmen cannot be men, and that Dirt refers to all transmen as *she* then what is the beef? According to Dirt they are women and they are attending womens colleges.

    Come on Dirt. You cannot have this both ways. Either we are men and have no business attending women's colleges (which I am inclined to agree), OR we are women and have every right to attend women's colleges.

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  5. I agree with the last Anon 100%! You can't have it both ways!!!

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  6. the transboys in women's colleges are the ones having it both ways to be sure

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  7. But if you're in a women's school with transitioners that you will always consider female, it's not like you can treat or address them as women without it being seen as something like a hate crime...

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  8. E said...

    the transboys in women's colleges are the ones having it both ways to be sure

    E, take your blinders off. You are missing the point. Dirt on one hand calls all ftms she. But then she says they should not go to womens colleges because they are transmen. Now I happen to agree men have no business going to a female college. As a transman I have no business going to a woman's college. However this was NOT the point. The point is there are usually slash-throughs of the word man or men in Transman/Transmen on Dirts posts. Dirt insists on calling Transmen her/she. She states clearly transmen are women. Not men.

    So if they are women.. What is the issue?

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  9. I don't really care what Dirt says, I'm not here to defend Dirt. Enjoy catching her in your logic trap I guess.
    (But I, too, don't think FTMs are men and also don't think they should be in women's institutions once they disclaim their female being.)

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  10. I don't understand why they would want t go to a women's only college or a male only college. Why should genders be separated in learning facilities? I personally think college is a way to experience the world and different things. I chose a diverse college for that reason. But for each their own right?

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  11. @5:25 PM

    This isn't about Dirt. If transmen see themselves as men like Mike just implied then a women's only space is not a place for them.

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  12. Anon@5:25pm

    If you bothered actually reading what has been stated here many time then you would remember that repeatedly I have stated that trans(men) are no longer women, but will biologically always remain female.

    And you would also remember just as many times if not more it has been stated by me that if a self hating female gives up her womanhood she has no place in womens spaces.

    dirt

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  13. It almost feels as though, by pointing out that transmen will always be biologically female, people intend to anger or hurt us. I could be wrong. But I just want to say that I am completely aware of my biological sex, and have no problem with that at all. I know there are transmen who would like to forget that fact, although I think they are the minority. Regardless of my biology, I am male gendered now, and have no place in a women's only college, gathering, etc. I will never understand why any transman would want to occupy a women's space.

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  14. Id like to echo what mike is saying. I'd never try to attend a womens college because it's a place where women can *not* be undermined by male privilege in their education.
    I'm also aware that I was born biologically female and I'm not too torn up about it. It has little relevance in my day.

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  15. After reading the article it looks like the transman was just trying to get to the bottom of things. Instead of getting the "go around" at the school. It also seems he did not transition until after he graduated,I could be wrong. If this is a womens only school they shouldnt allow male MIT students to do coursework there or even male staff.

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  16. I agree with Mike as well,

    you (Dirt) seem to go out of your way to point out a banishment of womanhood on the part of a transman (in your opinion)..henceforth rendering the individual without womanhood/sans womanhood.

    All that being said...it does seem like you go out of your way to use the term "she" in reference to a transman, thereby acknowledging womanhood and banishing his masculinity.

    That doesn't seem to be done for any other reason other than to cause transmen discomfort, pain, and...just a hateful act of 'the-transman-can't-win either-way' defiance.

    That being said, yes I agree no man has any business being at an all women's college, giving birth, or anything of that nature. It's ridiculous and nonsensical.

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  17. Well what I hear dirt saying is..

    You cannot go there because your not a man.

    You cannot go there because your not woman enough.

    It appears to be a punishment for daring to be or think outside the box.

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  18. What an incredible whiner that Ivy League girl is. She chooses a women's college because she wants the women to stand up and salute her "manliness"- which sure as shit wouldn't go over too good around actual men. Then she turns into a big cry baby because the college declines her volunteer "services". Well hell they must have seen this drama queen coming from a mile away, no wonder they declined her volunteering to interview teens who are applying to a WOMEN's university, not a self-hating female university.

    And then instead of letting it go what does this chick do? Sucks up a bunch of time and energy away from women complaining about how they done "him" wrong. Suck it up, Bro! You have a whole lifetime of male privilege and shitting on women ahead of you!

    They really should kick these girls out the second they start using male pro-nouns. Drop 'em at the bus station.

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  19. Anon @12:51 - Trans people spend all their time trying to conform and fit neatly "in a box." Not one is pushing boundaries, etc. FtM's going to women's colleges, getting pregnant, etc. don't count. Why do FtM's get their panties in such a twist about pronouns if they are such little trailblazers going beyond "boxes?"

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  20. Anon 5:21 - And MORE generalizations! I spend none of my time worrying about boxes - NONE. I live my life the way I want to live it. Period. I am true to myself and don't live my life according to stereotypes, nor do I live it trying to make anyone outside my family & friends happy. I also don't get my panties in a wad (even though I don't think I've EVER worn what you'd call panties) over pronouns. I really could care less what you call me. All the s/he,she,her, etc. around here don't bother me at all. My happiness in life doesn't hinge on a word, or on anyone else's opinion of me. If it makes you feel better to call me she/her - go for it! Not all transmen are trying to fit a mold - not all lesbians hate trans people. Stop lumping an entire community of people into one big group and applying the same accusations onto them. It makes you look a little ignorant.

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  21. "If you bothered actually reading what has been stated here many time then you would remember that repeatedly I have stated that trans(men) are no longer women, but will biologically always remain female."

    You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm grateful for having been born the way I was. I'm thankful for having walked this world as a woman for the first 28 or so years of my life because it made me a much more aware man. I know I am not biologically male - but the biology isn't important to me. I am a better husband to my wife for having first been a woman, and I wouldn't change one aspect of my life at this point, even if I could.

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  22. "Mike", were you being true to yourself you wouldnt even be calling yourself "mike" because I seriously doubt your parents named you that.

    You may FEEL you are being true to yourself but in fact what you are being true to is the female self hatred you've ingested since birth. In short, you are a fine example of misogyny in motion.

    dirt

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  23. dirt-

    Lots of people change their names for various reasons - so let me get this straight - if a person chooses to change their name from what was assigned to them at birth - then they are not being true to themselves? LOL, ok... if you say so. The fact is, you don't know my truth - no one knows anyone else's. I do, however, suspect that if you were living YOUR truth, you wouldn't be full of so much anger and feel you were somehow superior to people you don't know or understand. I actually feel kinda bad for you. Animosity is an icky feeling, and you are so full of it. I've been guilty of a lot of things in my life, but self hatred isn't one of them - sorry to disappoint. I didn't hate myself in the past. I gladly share photos of myself throughout my life, with no embarrassment or discomfort. I have had a very full life, and have enjoyed the hell out of it every step of the way, especially now. You don't know as much as you'd like to think you do about what it is to be transsexual. I know you like to fancy yourself a therapist of some sort - but you're clearly running from something. You project a lot, and you are so full of venom towards others. I think you might do well for yourself to get to the bottom of what's troubling you. But in the meantime, please don't worry yourself with my psyche... it's just fine :)

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  24. mike
    why bother transitioning if you care so little about gender?
    (and i do think 28 is still pretty young)

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  25. Anon 10:26

    I said I wasn't bothered by my biological sex - gender, however, is a social construct. I transitioned because I wanted to - simple as that. I don't owe anyone any further justification. And 28 isn't what I would call too young to know what one wants out of life - I am going on 42 now and know I made the right choices for myself.

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  26. Mike,

    The only one running is you, from yourself, a self you clearly hate. Wouldnt it wiser to confront those fears than to run towards them with open arms?

    And Mike, the trans in denial nonsense is a tad passe at this point dontcha think? Makes about as much sense as saying Dr. King really wanted to be white.

    dirt

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  27. dirt,

    Point out to me where I said you were trans in denial... oh, I didn't. Those are your own words. I said you were angry and running from something. I don't know what that something is.
    I don't think, if I hated myself as much as you'd like to think, that I would be where I am at in life, and have had the happiness and success that I continue to have. A person can't be successful and flourish if they hate themselves. I know it makes you happy to think that all transsexuals are miserable people who are full of self hatred - but again, you are projecting. It's obvious by how focused your blog is on trans people. You could contribute so much more for the feminist and butch/femme arenas - which are about SO much more than the trans issue, but instead, you obsess on the trans thing. You are doing your own community a disservice by shoving everything else aside to focus on this. But hey - it's your blog - one I have defended to other transmen. You have the right to write about whatever you want, I just think that you have a talent for writing that could be used in so many positive ways for the advancement of butch & femme visibility.

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  28. And for the record - I DO NOT think you are trans in denial dirt. Just so we're clear on that.

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  29. Mike,

    And I'm sure just telling your doctor "I just wanted to" was the perfect explaination for getting your transition done. As if 'wanting to' is enough. HA!
    People 'just want something' because they feel it's better than what they have.

    I want a million dollars- gimmie gimmie gimmie.

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  30. Anon 11:18 - Nope, that's just all the justification anyone BESIDES my doctors need. And it wasn't a gimmie fyi - I paid every cent myself. Keep on reaching... you guys try so hard to find your AHA! I gotcha! moment. it's not there to find my friend :) But hey, nice try!

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  31. Mike or is it Michelle? You hating your female mind and body isnt a joke, nor is it something you can ever escape in this life. Female transition is to male as face lift is to youth.

    dirt

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  32. I also suspect Mike/Michelle, that you spend so much time here because you are actually searching for a way to like/love yourself.

    dirt

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  33. Hey, Michelle isn't a bad name either - and if you go by the French pronunciation of Michael, it's Michelle. All in all, a perfectly fine variation of the name. So feel free!
    And I can't help but laugh at why you think I come here. If I were searching for myself - which I'm not - I certainly wouldn't look to a hate filled, negativity centered blog! You flatter yourself :)
    I come here to add a voice BESIDES all the angry transmen who threaten you and act like asses because they're feeling so defensive. We aren't all angry - and we aren't all defensive. And SOME of the commenters make quite intelligent posts - on both sides - and I enjoy a good debate/conversation. I don't have to agree with everything being said, nor do I have to have my own opinions validated at every turn, to enjoy a conversation.

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  34. Michelle,

    I wouldnt expect you to look to a hate filled blog, which is why you obviously find yourself here. A pro femalecentric blog that dismantles the myth of patriarchal systems (transition included) and highlights misogyny within those systems. Duh!

    dirt

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  35. Mike (or Michelle if you prefer ;)June 10, 2011 at 12:10 PM

    Oh Lynn, you KNOW as well as I do that you incite negativity - and that a good number of your commenters make some very hateful statements towards people they don't even know. I know you probably detest my presence here, because it looks much better for your cause to be able to say that all transmen are angry and attacking you. The truth is, I agree with you on SOME of what you say - whether you like it or not. It's obvious you would rather only have people read you & comment who are in total agreement with you. But there are those of us, who like I said, just enjoy a healthy debate.

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  36. I do find it a little amusing that you work so hard at coming off as an intellectual, but use the whole Mike/Michelle thing in an attempt to hurt my feelings or shame me - which you don't - and then the whole DUH! thing. I think the only other person I've heard that come out of recently was a 14yo girl. So I admit, you do oftentimes make it difficult to look at a conversation with you as one between intellectuals.

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  37. oh mike your really coming off as a intellectual let me tell you.

    just how did the conversation become all about you?
    it is very telling though ;)

    let's get back to the subject at hand fellow edumahcated peoples! transmen always taking up women spaces. much like this blog no less!

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  38. Anon 1:50

    ...if you would have actually read the conversation without a predetermined desire to go against Mike and transmen, you would have read that Mike was asked questios (actually interrogated) by Dirt and another anon, questioning his identity and structure as a human being.

    Im truly getting tired of having to point out childish bias. It's annoying to see that in addition to the hateful bias showcased in this blog a lot of the time.

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  39. This just goes to show that even when we agree with you, you (Dirt and anon followers) have an agenda to be completely hurtful with a groundless notion of supremacy.

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  40. Look precious people it has been stated over and over this blog is meant for women.

    Yet you continue to come here, and attempt to silence us. What do you have to prove. I do not spend my time obsessive going to KKK blogs trying to convince them not to hate people of color.

    Also we do not spend all our time going to your thousands of websites to invade those.

    Why is it so hard to handle that there are some people who have the opinion that transitioning is not a good thing?!

    Show some restraint. Get out of our spaces!

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  41. That's the second time the word "supremacy" has popped up. It's more a question of who was lucky enough, stable enough or however you want to put it NOT to have fallen for the trans BS as a cure for problems.

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  42. Anon@2:05PM,

    Clearly these arent men, or they wouldnt be interested in a femalecentric blog.

    dirt

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  43. "Yet you continue to come here, and attempt to silence us."

    I don't see where anyone, myself included, tried to "silence" anyone. I simply hoped to get a real conversation started and show that there are things we both want and can attain with a little meeting of the minds. But I get it - you don't want conversation from all sides - just from those people who agree with you. Makes it a lot easier to maintain your false claims and histrionics.
    And on the subject of your NOT going to KKK blogs trying to convince them not to hate people of color... it's a good thing everyone isn't like you - many a racist mind has been changed by opening his/her mind to the people they hated.
    Kind of ironic too, that you claim I am "taking over" your space, when I am in complete agreement with you on transmen not belonging in a women's college, music festival, etc etc. I didn't see where it was expressed on this blog that it was a women's only space. Now I know. Might not be a terrible idea dirt to label it as such so that people know up front you only welcome female commenters.

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  44. Michelle, you arent interested in convo, so lets dispense with the pretense.

    If you were an actual male, you would be hanging out on male blogs discussing male issues. Instead you hang about a femalecentric blog. Why? Because you hoped/dreamed you could use your make believe manliness and name to intimidate women.

    That nonsense doesnt fly here Michelle. Now either get back to the topic at hand or all future comments by you will be deleted.

    dirt

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  45. "Look precious people it has been stated over and over this blog is meant for women.

    Yet you continue to come here, and attempt to silence us. What do you have to prove. I do not spend my time obsessive going to KKK blogs trying to convince them not to hate people of color."

    You have just compared yourself to the Ku Klux Klan. My thoughts exactly. They also claim not to "hate" people of color. They only claim to look after "white supremacy".

    You're right. This blog and its followers are just like the KKK in many ways. And as a person of color, I can see some vast similarities.

    Thank you for pointing that out @ Anon 2:05. ( Oh and your own ignorance and hate-enabling).

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  46. Michelle, you arent interested in convo, so lets dispense with the pretense.

    If you were an actual male, you would be hanging out on male blogs discussing male issues. Instead you hang about a femalecentric blog. Why? Because you hoped/dreamed you could use your make believe manliness and name to intimidate women.

    That nonsense doesnt fly here Michelle. Now either get back to the topic at hand or all future comments by you will be deleted.

    dirt



    How rude of you to address Mike as Michelle in the first place. Then again, you are just a hateful individual as it is so why not do what you do?

    I know plenty of males who believe in female rights. My dad for one! Not all men are sexist and shit as you seem to believe but that's on you. My grandfather believed in women's rights also. Not all men are sexist and shit! Hell, my dad is an awesome man who helped my mom when she was in college with all her feminism reports and whatnot so you can't tell me all men are idiots as you believe.

    Just because you are a 100% man hater in every degree does not mean everyone should be.

    I'm a fem lesbian and am disgusted at the things you say. I too am a feminist but damn, to hate on everything male? I mean come on! People like you make me ashamed to even admit that I am a feminist. Feminism was never supposed to be about hating men by any means but you have brought it up to that. Your way of thinking which makes me believe you are a paranoid schizophrenic with borderline personality, makes me sick. I think you need some help girl! Your delusions make no sense at all!

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  47. @Sharon

    You calling Dirt a man-hater is extremely laughable. You obviously have not read much of her blog. She is against the patriarchal pretenses that women are raised under and trained to follow, which includes women's limits. It's an opinion and observation, which you don't share, that many females transition to escape such limits. It's an opinion, and every opinion deserves a voice- like this blog- though many want Dirt's voice to shut the fuck up. Threatened much?

    @Infacull

    No, you're just a man in a dress invading a woman space and flaunting the fact. If you were the real woman you try to consider yourself, you wouldn't advertise your MTF status, you little special snowflake you. :)

    EPIC FAIL!

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  48. @Anon 6:23

    We are not the KKK, so you can leave the race card at the door.

    We are the anti-smoking blog giving people an opinion on the harmful effects of smoking.

    Any chain smoker who downplays the consequences of smoking by saying things like...

    "I've been smoking for 40 years, no cancer! Fuckin' Nazi smokers in denial!"

    ...would be considered morally reprehensible. It's undeniable that transitioning has many health risks (more so than health benefits when compared to not transitioning), but they are being downplayed by most of the trans community. Let us be the one of the few anti-transitioning (note: not anti-trans) that highlights the risks and trends of the medical/cosmetic procedure.

    If you're happy being a chain smoker, willing to take the risks, be happy. But don't try to shut down one of the few who call out the dangers that are not being advertised.

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  49. @ Scribe...

    I see that you are very good at tactfully ignoring things.

    Let me point out something that you chose to tactfully ignore for your case...

    that anon was not the one who had first made the comparison to the KKK. Why you chose to not address the actual comparer, is beyond me. Most likely because that original comparer shared your opinion on trans? I believe so.

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  50. @Anon 4:22

    I'm not ignoring the fact of who said the first reference, though you are quite blatantly ignoring the point that I made. You'd rather focus on semantics than an actual rebuttal.

    I don't speak for the person who made the first comparison, nor do I know him/her.

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  51. Any "true female" spaces are no longer safe, and it's a humorous issue to people like you. It really shows what value you have towards women in general.

    Like any man, you're in a space where you have no business (none of this blog concerns you), however you feel the need to impose. If you consider that a win, you are no true female, my good sir.

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  52. Mike, what are you doing on a female blog?

    And why do transmales study in women colleges? After preaching us about their maleness, how they feel inside...they want to be in women only colleges but why? Any transguy out there that can explain us this oddity?

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