Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, June 5, 2011

Who is Transitioning-A Discussion

The Who is Transitioning post always stirs up a great deal of emotion no matter who comments. I'd like to focus a discussion on just those posts and the emotions behind them for both you and me.

Share with us your feelings on the Who is Transitioning posts, your position (for or against and why) along with your ID if you would.

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29 comments:

  1. My thoughts against the TT posts aren't exactly emotionally driven. I simply feel that logically, it doesn't make sense to have them.

    I understand the purpose of the postings: to being attention to the sheer mass of young people transitioning from female to male. I agree the numbers are too high, and there's a good chance that some, if not most, of those posted on your blog, or youtube in it's entirety, are possibly "trenders" as you say. I have witnessed some who have decided that transitioning wasn't for them after all, and others who feel they are somehow "more legit" than the everyone else on youtube.

    Based solely on photos, there's no logical way to deduce those posted on your blog are or are not one of those "trenders" though. Your largest argument is that they are young and have videos posted on youtube, so they MUST be trenders. Maybe there's another argument in there somewhere, I'd love to hear it if you have one. To help clear things up on the receiving end of the post.

    My largest problem stems from your posting of other people's pictures, labeling them something they may or may not be.

    I do read your blog on a regular basis, and I agree with the overall point of your posts (something needs to be done about the masses of those transitioning) I just don't feel the method of these posts are the best. All they seem to do is attract immaturity from both sides of the argument.

    Sorry for the length of the response, I hope it all makes sense. If I need to clear something up, please let me know.

    I'm not sure what you meant by my ID... my name rather than posting as anonymous? I dislike those who post as anonymous, it gets confusing to separate one from another, so I always leave a first name. If by ID you meant how I identify (ftm, lesbian, gay, male, female, etc.) I don't really have a "label" that I use consistently. I'm just me.

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  2. Imagine if I went to YouTube every day and searched out videos of very young girls announcing their coming out lesbian. I then got screen shots with id's and posted them onto a site where straight people meet to judge lesbians, criticize their decision and decide what their true sexuality is. Imagine that perhaps a few of these people are actually closeted gays themselves and virulently homophobic because of their own self-hatred.

    I don't believe you are doing anything illegal, I believe you are doing something morally bankrupt. You are taking already vulnerable youths and exposing them to some very rabid and unbalanced women who are obsessed with other people's lives. That makes me wonder what's wrong in their own lives. That being said, I don't think any of these women are going to hunt down these young transmen and kill them where they sleep. I think much of the actual harm done is the self-harm in the women who come here to complain about transmen. Think about it: social support and understanding of transsexualism is increasing and these kids are mostly very young. Many will be able to transition physically very early and that will increases their body's response to testosterone, thus making passing a non-issue. Many of their parents, friends, teachers are more educated and understanding about trans stuff. And being that we are all humans and hopefully have more to offer others than a set of genitals, they will be *as* likely to find partners and happiness, success in life as they had the capability for anyway. Whereas you people are little bit fucked, I think. If you are obsessed with the idea of reversing the acceptance of transsexuality- good luck with that. Even if you are able to convince people that they were born female biologically, you likely won't be able to convince them of what that should mean to them regarding how they live, dress, look or identify. Gender is not understood to be fixed in the body. To you that may mean that no one has a reason to change their body, but to people who are trans, it just makes their desire to change more understandable to them.
    I think if you were truly motivated by love for women, you'd be smart enough to figure out that your negativity focus on transmen is destroying your credibility as a strong proud butch. It just looks suspect. If we need butch role models, then we need butch role models who can be who they are with joy and acceptance-not obsessive hatred. COMPLETELY IGNORING transness would be a much stronger condemnation if that's what you are going for.

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  3. I don't think the trans trending posts are a good way to discourage confused young girls from transitioning. I'm not saying all people who identify as trans are just confused, but I don't doubt that at least some are. To them, these posts just look like a bitter hateful person trying to single them out and say "look at these freaks!" These posts along with the multitude of posts you make about how transitioning means you hate women, and hate yourself, and that someday you'll end up alone and mutilated, make it very hard to take you seriously. I know your intentions are good, but you just come off as a hateful person with nothing better to do but blog about people you hate. I know you say you don't hate transmen but can you see how people get that impression? The insults and general rudeness you give transmen sure seems a lot like hate.
    Overall, I don't think the trans trending posts do anything to convince anyone they shouldn't transition. Wouldn't it be better to post examples of proud women who don't conform to the gender norm? I'm sure you and some of the regulars here have some good stories and inspirational things you could say to confused girls, rather than putting them down and telling them that they must hate themselves.

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  4. rhesus, I LOVE your idea of posting pictures of non-conforming women and telling inspirational stories. Positive reinforcement has been shown to help much more than negative reinforcement.

    Showing non-conforming women who are happy with their lives will have much more of an impact than the TT posts.

    I would also like to read some of those inspirational stories as well. This blog should find a more positive way to get it's message out.

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  5. I wish this blog was more about the fact that you feel more like you don't fit in any gender roles (woman or man) instead of hating on transguys. If you talked about how you feel "mixed up" in a woman's body, but not compelled to change, it would be more beneficial. There are tons of women out there that don't fit into gender roles and choose not to transition into a man, but I don't see them listed on here.

    I know there must be at least some feelings there about "feeling like a man, not quite a woman, etc", but you may be afraid to admit them because that would make you a hypocrite from what you've said. Lesbians should feel a little outside society because its not the "norm" and being the butch makes you even less of the "norm" to society, so I know you feel that way. Why can't you talk about that instead of hating on people who've already made up their minds they want to be assigned to that gender role? (Which there are transguys who want that, obviously; and transguys who don't want that)

    What I've been saying from the beginning, you can help without being hateful. I'm sure a lot of transguys and lesbians would agree with you feeling "not quite a woman, but no desire (or little desire) to be a man".

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  6. A fake dick is surgically constructed by cutting off a large swath of skin, rolling it up into a oblong shape and then sewing more skin around it. But skin tissue has evolved to be on TOP of other tissue, not enclosed in a moist shell -- which is why half of all constructed penis end up rotting from the inside out while the non-rotting penises look like wierdly shaped blobs. Why would a heterosexual woman be interested in that?

    Because of basic male anatomy, artifical vulvas can never exceed six inches deep (most trans stop at four inches or less due to cost considerations). Plus the skin doesn't stretch the way real vulvas do. So if they're gonna fuck some guy, he has to have a seriously small penis, both in length and diameter. So why would a man with an average sized penis (six inches) or bigger be interested?

    There is a reason why they end up only dating each other, for the most part...

    Anyway, I still don't see why anyone objects to the photos. They make reality a tad more painfully clear -- that these are twelve year olds who are making such life-altering decision. It's not an age bracket known for having much ability for long-term stability. And nobody is actually making fun of them, the whole situation is far too pathetic for that.

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  7. Public Humiliation is what I see each time I see those kids pics on your site. Each time I see them the following link is what flashes through my head.

    http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/10/2/8/4/69716781220699583.jpg

    I don't believe this tactic works. If anything you have just lost the person(s)and put up a bigger wedge. I believe there is a possibility you mean well, but this tactic does not work.

    When I was a kid I stole something from my parents. They made me sit out on the front porch with a sign that said I am a thief for a couple of weeks after school. The damage it did to me was horrible and the damage it did at school was horrible.

    Public Humiliation does not work.

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  8. I agree with a lot of what's been said here, I don't have any sort of emotional response to them, they just seem unnecessary. They claim to be 'helping' young women, but all they do is say why not to be transmen, not why to be proud to be women. Say someone very early in their transition found your blog, which I'm sure many do. They might not transition as a result, but they still don't have pride in who they are. Instead of highlighting who's transitioning, you should be highlighting examples of successful, positive examples of non-binary women, including straight or bisexual women. Unfortunately I feel it says more about your pride as a butch woman, or lack of, than your actual opinions on transmen.

    I spoke to a girl once, about 16, who said to me 'omg I always think I might be trans but I couldn't do the whole 'being a man' thing, that's too gross'. I literally had to walk away from them because I could have gotten so upset about it. I think most of the screenshots you post are of people who consider themselves transgendered, and not transsexual. Posting screenshots here might not infringe any copyright, but it's starting to verge on cyber bullying.

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  9. m andrea, the penis' you are referring to aren't really a part of the conversation right now. I don't see how most of your comment was relevant to the TT posts.

    I feel like your comment on them was solely made to start up some kind of emotional retaliation from the less mature trans-supporters visiting the blog. Although I agree that the surgical results are, in my opinion, sub-par there is no reason to be posting about it on this post. Please save those types of comments for the days where Dirt talks about the penis' or the surgeries involved to make them.

    Although I'd like to point out I have no problem with your opinion about the TT posts and photos, I would like to correct on one assumption you seem to have. Not all of the pictures on the TT posts are of 12 year-olds. In fact, very few of them are. I'm sure there are some who are between 14-16, but there have also been ones posted of 25 year-olds.

    And you may not be making fun of the people in the photos, but there have been other commenters who have been.

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  10. @M andrea

    Why was anything you posted even relevent to the question?

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  11. I could never understand why this blog snapped screenshots of young trans people all the time. All the discussions typically turn into a bash fest. I always found that odd as seemingly the bashers believe these youngsters have a mental illness. So it comes off like mocking the mentally disordered. We mock the mentally ill now? How low! Then there's the trans people who discussion their transitions as if their transition was better. Somehow. And that never made sense to me since you were in the same boat as the people you now think are lower class than you.

    And Anyone fearing being outed should never put videos online outing themselves. Period. It makes no sense.

    I think the best way to get across to anybody would be to have intelligent discussions, email them, IM them, reach out to them, don't mock them. And of course for those who aren't mocking people....then GOOD. But I think it would be beneficial to have discussions highlighting young feminist, young butch women, women's stories, etc. etc. etc. not just "female self-hatred." It'd be different if a video or two highlighted WHY someone felt like a man or WHY someone was confused about gender or sexuality. I honestly don't know what is in the videos I just see the pics.

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  12. @ Anon 11:17pm

    It wasn't relevant. She takes every opportunity possible to be offensive and hateful. She insights e-lynch mobs against the genitalia of others. She's known for it on this blog. I've seen it a number of times from her. Nothing she ever has to say is ever productive to the conversation at hand.

    That being said..

    "Overall, I don't think the trans trending posts do anything to convince anyone they shouldn't transition. Wouldn't it be better to post examples of proud women who don't conform to the gender norm? I'm sure you and some of the regulars here have some good stories and inspirational things you could say to confused girls, rather than putting them down and telling them that they must hate themselves."

    I couldn't agree more. A completely, mature, rational, alternative to these posts Dirt makes. Nothing fruitful will EVER come from humiliating someone like this. From taking a picture of their face, without permission (regardless of if it was placed online by that person for public view or not), no benefits could possibly be had.

    M Andrea's response is a direct depiction of why these "trending posts" are useless and barbaric. People like her will always be there to slander and gawk at others immaturely. I see this as utter humiliation and that's all. Nothing more.

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  13. I think it is better to single out one story/one transman in order to proove it is a trend and that those young women are just brainwashed by queer bullshit theories which serve only the scholars looking for fat pay check and tenure. I do think you should point out that while they damage their body, those guys or women who pretend to be queer scholars do not damage their body.
    I will believe in queer bullshit when the scholars behind will transition themselves.
    Those bright queer thinkers play with the mind of young people: old enough to sign an agreement with a plastic surgeon or to work and pay for butchery but not old enough to understand their strong feelings or political beliefs are just a late teenagehood trend, they will deeply regret latter.

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  14. I agree that if you posted pics, articles, videos, interviews, with a whole range of different "unconventional women", perhaps in addition to "trans" posts, that would be a more effective method to get your message across. Alot of these kids are finding out about transition solely through the internet or utilising it ALOT to feed their trans* obsession. While some of them may actually be "real trans* people", many probably just feel alienated/misunderstood/unloved in their life or feeling like they have no choice other than to fit into a stereotypical "male" or "female" role - and I can imagine the trans community is a really attractive option for a young person in that situation - it would have been for me as a teenager.

    Exposing these kids to the hordes of "unconventional" women out there - who are not afraid to be who they are and are awesome for it - as opposed to repeatedly saying their strong compulsion to be trans is "female body hatred" - is probably the way forward. I actually agree with you about the misogyny, but it's probably not going to effect these "trans trender" kids cos "female" is probably the last word on their minds. I think, for your cause, you somehow need to replace "trans" with "female" in their minds. Just my thoughts...

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  15. I've been thinking about this trans trending posts and honestly I'm against it. The simple reason is that females who are thinking about transitioning may seek help from this blog to hear about other options than transitioning. When you write the trans trending posts, you're basically making publicity for ftms and their youtube channels. The females who are seeking help from gender confusion don't need to hear the opinions from other confused female, they need to hear from women who have overcomed this confusion and they need to hear how they can overcome it themselves.

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  16. I think it's interesting that a lot of commenters assume that the audience for the Trans Trending posts are the trans trenders themselves. I didn't see it that way. I took the audience to be everyone else. In that way, they make sense by displaying the tender ages these girls get corrupted at and the sheer volume speaks to the trending part.

    I'm not Dirt so I can't say for sure, but I always assumed these posts were meant for the general audience, and that they sought to effect the growing acceptance of transitioning in the culture at large. They seem to say, "Okay, you say you support this, but have you REALLY thought about it? Have you LOOKED at it?"

    PS: Had to use the handicap feature on the Visual Verification....

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  17. Wow. All these intelligent responses and then M Andrea comes on here and talks about genital surgeries and how no one will ever love us. How very telling.

    Hey M Andrea, do you walk around in the world seeing yourself reduced to your genitals? Do you believe you are are a product in the sexual marketplace under the category "Woman"? Is that how you define yourself as desirable or worthy? Did you know that most transmen don't have the money for genital surgery and that many don't want it anyway? Do you have any evidence that most of us end up in relationships with other transpeople? Is there any reason to suspect that that outcome is less satisfactory or a less loving relationship than any other? Do you have any sense of self-worth based on your character rather than your body parts? I do, and I feel a little sad for you right now.

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  18. How constructive and on topic of you, M Andrea. This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about in my earlier post.

    And just so it's clear, no, I'm not saying that anyone who disagrees with transitioning hates trans people. It's this attitude, this constant need you feel to tell them they're mutilating themselves with genital surgery and no one will ever love them when that's not even what this topic is about, that makes me think you hate trans people.

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  19. I haven't been reading this blog for very long, but I got the impression it was about criticising transsexuality/transgenderism from a theoretical perspective, rather than directly trying to engage with trans people and try to change their minds. I've never had any problems with the trans trender posts: I find it interesting to put faces to the theory.

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  20. What do you mean by "your ID"? Gender ID? I ID as genderless. I think these photo postings are wrong and not needed to make your points and points of view known. But I don't know why u bother with a post like this, you obviously do what you want 2 with no concern for others.

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  21. "My largest problem stems from your posting of other people's pictures, labeling them something they may or may not be. "

    Yes, she has posted videos of young women who had simply tagged their video with "ftm" even though they are not on T, not planning on taking T, not had surgery or planning surgery, ID as women etc. At least one young woman made a video confirming that. So it's clear she's just making a sweep and picking out any photos that happen in that sweep. So much for the "trend" idea as she doesn't even take the time to know who she is accusing of "trending"

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  22. Why would a girl "simply" tag her video "ftm" if she doesn't ID as trans? What kind of logic is that? I'd understand if it were about ftm issues with friends or being an alley but doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe the person now sees themselves as genderqueer, gender less, or some form of non-gendering, but ftm is pretty precise in the GLBT* community.

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  23. I agree with Anna Belle on this one. The trans trend postings, I do not feel are geared towards transexuals. In fact I feel as a audience member, that the entire blog is geared towards feminist in general who care about whats happening to our young girls. It's a place for the definate minority of feminists to agree that transitioning is internal hatred of women/womankind, and the woman inside each of them.
    Yet day in day out we are invaded, (similar to real life!) by wanna be men.
    We are told that we are not allowed to have our own opinions, and that we hate trans. When in actuality, we are truely the only ones out there with absolutely nothing to gain from this!

    I see these ongoing posts as a sick reminder that it is in fact a trend. And I say this as a butch woman, who had the exact same feelings as most of these young people that are posted. I see my young confused, self in each of their faces.

    So all and all, I see these postings as a loud wake up call to feminists everywhere to take notice, pay attention.

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  24. First of all, I am a transsexual man. I transitioned well over a decade ago, and even in a city the size of Houston, couldn't find another person like myself. I do believe it has become a trend, and my main issue with this blog has always been the blanket generalizations about trans people.
    About the TT posts... I have never, would never make a YouTube video and I do believe that has become part of the trend. Not that I think ALL vloggers are trenders - but I do think they are the majority. That being said, I still don't think it's a constructive use of this blog, nor do I feel it's morally commendable to poke fun at them, and call negative attention to them. I've seen lots of legal threats regarding dirt's use of the pictures, but they are public videos, so I don't think any laws are being broken. I just find it mean spirited and juvenile - kind of a bullying situation really.
    As for the outing accusations... they have already outed themselves on YouTube - I don't see how dirt is outing anyone.
    The bottom line is, no one, apart from a trans person and their therapist maybe, knows their truth well enough to pass judgement. Every trans person is not a trender, and not every trans person hates themselves, is misogynistic, feels entitled to women's spaces, etc. It's not dirt's opinions of transgender/transsexuality I have an issue with, because I honestly don't think she truly understands it - it's the generalizations I have an issue with.
    As for m Andrea, her comments are always off topic, hateful and ignorant. Nothing new there. She seeks to get the pissy trans guys who post here all wound up. And oftentimes, sadly, it works.

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  25. There could be a lot of reasons she tagged the video that way even if she doesn't ID as FTM herself. It doesn't matter why she tagged the video that way, though. The point is that Dirt posted her image here as though she were transitioning when she's not, which makes her posts less credible and more toward shock value and humiliation of the girls rather than making some valid point about medical transition.

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  26. "Because of basic male anatomy, artifical vulvas can never exceed six inches deep (most trans stop at four inches or less due to cost considerations)."

    My flexible, self-lubricating, 7.25 inch vaginal cavity echoes with my laughter at your total ignorance on the subject of neo-vaginas, mAndrea.
    You're hilariously rather behind the times.

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  27. "My flexible, self-lubricating, 7.25 inch vaginal cavity echoes with my laughter at your total ignorance on the subject of neo-vaginas, mAndrea.
    You're hilariously rather behind the times."

    Yes if a colovag fuckhole is surgically created mucosa from the colon is used to line the fuckhole and continually drains foul smelling bowel mucous.

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  28. Some people obviously need to learn their anatomy. The vulva is the outside part of the female genitals. It does not include the inside part.

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  29. Dirt,

    I have mixed feelings about the TT posts. On one hand, you're putting up photos of young adults and teenagers without their permission for judgment and ridicule, compared to the video they posted willingly where they have the ability to monitor and delete comments when needed themselves. When they're unable to supervise the hateful, nasty comments about the general trans community, those young people who feel the extreme need for HRT and surgery are likely to experience a self esteem nose dive, more likely to suicidal levels.

    But on another hand, one of the posters mentioned previously that some of the young folks you've posted before have decided that transition is not for them. I have absolutely no problems with transgendered and transsexual people, in fact I'm currently questioning myself. Even still, that's just great! Because it's obviously not the solution for everyone, and the changes are irreversible once you accept them. Everyone should try their damned hardest to feel comfortable in their own skin before they decide to mess with the way they were born, especially with such risky medical procedures. I can only assume someone linked the posts with their photos which brought them here for information that helped change their minds.

    So, while I'm still iffy about you putting up pictures without permission, I can only assume the TT posts were what's responsible for even just one or two young girls realizing that they're just binary breaking young girls and *not* transgendered, which I imagine is the very reason why you continue to post them.

    Or I guess I could hop on the bandwagon and just call you a closet tranny, but...nah, that joke's getting pretty old by now. :P

    I'm sure you've read this from me before, but... I don't agree with most of what you write about. I do however, know that you're filled with good intentions, and with the target audience you're trying to reach, you do need to be blunt in your writing to show them. I'd find this positively delightful if you were blogging about anything else, by the way.

    As for my ID... I don't really have a specific label for which I identify. I was born a biological female, and I love the ladies. So by your definition I would be a lesbian, I suppose. :P

    (Sorry for any grammatical errors... it's 2 AM. Lol)

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