Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, May 15, 2011

Questions for Dirt

I'm setting aside this post for any direct questions for me. I know I quite often I miss questions within the comments, so this is your chance to ask me anything with reason, be it personal or about any blog topic.

I'll do my best to answer in a timely manner.

dirt
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117 comments:

  1. Dear Dirt, how can I love you any more than I already do?

    That's my question... ;)

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  2. Hmmm, given the seriousness of this question, I've pondered long and hard Miss A, and after much contemplation I suggest you just throw money at me. Nothing says love like cold hard CASH!

    dirt

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  3. Dear Dirt, Straight, read your blog and wanted to ask you, even if you are lesbian, and so you cannot relate to sexuality with males : how close do you think this kind of vision of male sexuality relates to biomales (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pT0EwyG7zQ) ? Do you think one can claim being a male just by having silicon dildo?

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  4. Dirt,
    Not so much a question as a suggestion, but I'll put it in question form:
    Could you create an "about" page or something of the kind where you give a basic run-down of your ideas and perspectives on the issues most pertinent/most discussed on your blog (ie trans, feminism, etc)?

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  5. Why are you such a dickhead?

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  6. Stephen,

    Due to the overwhelmingness that is patriarchy which informs everything right down to the language we all speak, hetero/male sexuality too informs all sexuality to degrees.

    That said, between the nature of female and the patriarchal expectations/conditionings of females, female sexuality (informed though it may be by male sexuality) differs greatly from male sexuality.

    We know the brains of female transitioners on "T" change, but keep in mind the changes that occur are still changes on a FEMALE brain.

    Like the female body, changes from T cannot make the female brain male, they merely change how the female brain processes info.

    So while the thinking/feeling processes may change in the female transitioner while on T, even with her sexuality being informed early on by male sexuality, the "trans" sexuality that develops from the combo of disorder/T, will never be a genuine male sexuality.

    dirt

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  7. Amber,

    Sure. Will try to put something up next week. Thanks for your suggestion.

    dirt

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  8. Anon,

    Define "dickhead".

    dirt

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  9. Have you ever had an ftm friend? Would you ever consider it?

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  10. Have I ever had an ftM friend/would I consider it?

    I have an ongoing email friendship with several ftM's. I say friendship because the responses are no longer bound by the subjects of gender/transition and have expended into the personal day to day stuff. I would happily meet either in real time were we to live closer.

    dirt

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  11. Why do you post pictures of transitioners in your blog under the title "trans trending"? I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish by doing that.

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  12. KC,

    It illustrates two points, the first being it dismantles the long held notion that mostly Butch females transition, when obviously hardly any do.

    Second, it illustrates the trend that is taking place with the large numbers of young females transitioning post the feminist backlash.

    dirt

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  13. Dear Dirt,

    You have spoken time and again about the danger of synthetic hormones. Where do you draw the line: Why is it acceptable to inject or ingest certain synthetic hormones but not others? How is determined what is medically needed? (eg: diabetics and people with thyroid issues also rely on synthetic hormones). Now my first reaction to that question (and I'm sure yours too) would be "easy: if an essential hormone is missing then it should be substituted"
    However every body produces both testosterone and oestrogen, just in different quantities.
    For all I know (and I do not know either way - as there really are few if any conclusive biochemical studies - I think we all agree on that), it might well be, that certain people are better able to process the opposite sexual hormone from the one their chromosomes suggest.

    Speaking of which, if I may ask another question: (don't know if two is breaking the rules ;-) ):
    What does determine the sex? (or gender) Chromosomes or socialisation? Because for both theories there are cases which say the opposite.
    If it's chromosomes then there should be no xy-women (I'm not talking about mtf but people assigned female at birth but with xy chromosomes, which is - if it all - discovered during puberty or even later). If it's socialisation then there should be no David Reimer.

    Hope my post makes sense, I've just come home from a full day shift speaking in a foreign language so my brain's a bit messy.

    Cheers,
    Chris

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  14. Dirt, Do you ever think about the consequences that could come to the people your posting pictures of? How would you feel if someone was hurt because you posted there picture on here? There alot of people who read your blog that hate the Trans community. Do you also relise that some of these pictures are of minors, and in a way your exploiting them?!

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  15. Why would you assume that the cross-section of ftm's who post videos of themselves on Youtube is an accurate representation of all the ftm's out there?

    How do you make your determinations about who is "butch"?

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  16. What's your take on female bodybuilders? The professional ones aka the ones on androgens?

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  17. Someone with diabetes is unhealthy to begin with, and the drugs are intended to return the body to a healthy state.

    Transitioning, otoh, begins with a healthy body. Please notice that part. :)

    So I end up wondering, it is the mind of a trans person which is sick? Because there's no reason to surgically alter a healthy body, after all. Medicine only alters what is considered to be UNHEALTHY. Cosmetics only alters what is UNWANTED. And so logically, transitioning can only be classified as cosmetic as well. Or, they're sick in the head. Pick one. :)

    And when did the results of cosmetic surgery claim to "have been that way all along"? Hmmm? A woman who gets breast reduction surgery does not claim she was born with small breasts.

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  18. So much of the language which surrounds transgenderism is designed to obscure rather than to clarify.

    I truly wish I had been born with a billion dollars, but I wasn't, and my only option is to earn it. But even if I were to earn a billion dollars, realistically I couldn't make the claim that I was born with it.

    There's a vast difference -- mostly having to do with reality vs fantasy -- between saying "I was born with X" and saying "I wish I were born with X".

    Trans literally cannot tell the difference between reality and fantasy. That is so sad. :(

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  19. m Andrea :
    What's the definition of healthy then? That is kinda what I meant by "better equipped to process the opposite hormone" (as I said, sorry not very clear as still a bit mush-brained - I SO need another job ;-) ).
    I have a trans-friend whose general health has measurably (as in things like blood pressure, pulse and what not) improved since being on testosterone.

    Anyway, I did not claim to know whether it's the mind or the body that's sick.
    I try to keep an open mind and listen to both sides and try to form my own theories - which I do not force onto anyone. I asked the questions I did ask simply to clarify a things I had not quite understood about Dirt's point of view.

    Speaking of clarifying: What are you referring to with the statement "And when did the results of cosmetic surgery claim to "have been that way all along"? Hmmm? A woman who gets breast reduction surgery does not claim she was born with small breasts." Or is that in reference to some other post? If not then my post most have been unclearer than I thought, for which I apologize because I did not mean to claim that in any way...

    Cheers,
    Chris

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  20. Have you ever wondered whether you are actually wrong about something? Have you ever wondered if you actually have all the information you need before you made a judgment about anything? Have you ever taken honest stock of things you've said in the past and wished you hadn't said them? Have you ever acknowledged having had a deep prejudice that affected your objectivity?
    Do you think you already know all there is to know?

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  21. to 6:07

    I'd like to address those same questions to you...

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  22. How do "butch" and "femme" differ from traditional heterosexual gender stereotypes?

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  23. @gb, every single day of my life, friend-o.

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  24. hey dirt

    are u single? ;)

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  25. @ Roxann : Do you need to attend Lesbianism 101 or something? Can't figure out if your "question" is more insulting to heterosexual couples, Femmes & Butches as couples or if it's meant to insult Butches in particular. I'm thinking it's supposed to be 2 & 3.

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  26. Why should I doubt myself? Really no offense but why? Either my arguments can be invalidated, or they cannot be invalidated. Considering how long I've been developing these little gems, it's kind of noticable (and sadly pathetic) that nobody has been able to break even one of them. My record is literally perfect. People complain about how my arguments make them fweel, but still the arguments remain unbroken So again, why should I doubt myself?

    Anyway, if anybody wants the definition of "healthy" then you should look no further than the nearest dictionary, where come to find out "unhealthy" tends to be defined as "not diseased".

    It's just common sense. A healthy body doesn't need to be treated with medicine or medical procedures. "My trans friend felt better after being treated" indicates there was something wrong with him/her before treatment. Or, if the claim is that the body was not diseased or sick in some way before the treatment, then logically the treatment is purely cosmetic. There's only two options here, so you have to pick one of the two. Either the person is sick in some way (physically or mentally), OR the procedure is cosmetic.

    There's a vast difference -- mostly having to do with reality vs fantasy -- between saying "I was born with X" and saying "I wish I were born with X".

    FtM like to say that they "are" a man, or that they've always "felt like a man inside since birth" but according to reality, their statement is mere wishful thinking. In reality, they were born with a female body and no amount of surgery will ever change the fact that they were born female. So therefore, in reality, they were a girl from birth. So therefore, they will never be the same as men who were born with a male body.

    It is much more accurate for trans to be classified as a third gender -- when the purpose is to associate gender with biological sex.

    Believe it or not I'm just being helpful here, by pointing out that much of what transfolk say, defies reality. It makes y'all look fucking nuts. I also realize that you're just trying to find the most accurate way to describe your experience, but well, try harder. The truth is always a good place to start. :)

    The most accurate thing to say (and yes I realize no one likes this, but yet it is the truth) is this: I feel like what I assume a man feels like. It literally isn't possible for you to know what being a born male feels like, because you never were one.

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  27. I thought these were questions for Dirt...

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  28. "The most accurate thing to say (and yes I realize no one likes this, but yet it is the truth) is this: I feel like what I assume a man feels like. It literally isn't possible for you to know what being a born male feels like, because you never were one."

    I agree. For me, transitioning seems like a simplistic interpretation of oneself. To spend so much time convincing yourself you don't "feel" female is a self perpetuating prophecy, of course then transitioning will feel like an answer, but really, I think, it's an avoidance behaviour. All this "feeling male" talk is a dangerous dialogue to have too flippantly, because it impresses a simple solution on people, and let's face it, most people are not very self reflective.

    I also think it's dangerous to be focusing so much on physical essentialism - i.e. caricaturing the male and female form. Our bodies aren't just flesh, they are complex systems involving emotional filtering that effect our socialisation/ relationships/how we register information and understand the world etc.

    I applaud and welcome all the intellectual trans people out there who are self reflective souls and design convincing arguments, it is an interesting discussion after all, but remember most the kids/adolescents on youtube/ elsewhere aren't as smart as you. They're telling themselves "I always played with boys, I like wearing trousers - so I'm a man" - they are the true victims of this.

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  29. FYI

    "XY Females" (non mtf) are still classified as the female sex. Females with Complete Androgen insensitivity syndrome do not have significantly impaired genitals/sexual development. These females still have a female body/genitalia but they typically do have testes (which do not produce sperm). There's also Swyer syndrome which is a classification for (xy) females resulting in no puberty whatsoever since she has no ovaries or testes. People with chromosome issues are still given sex classifications (as controversial as it can be).

    Also

    David Riemer is a popular case. But there are cases of parents who wished to have a child of the opposite sex resulting in forcing/raising their child as the opposite sex. The child then grows up believing/wishing that they were the opposite sex. I believe in Afghanistan(?) it happens a lot where female children are raised as male due to the value of having a son. So it works both ways. It's no different from feral children. No I do not mean this to be rude but children are extremely sensitive to the world they are surrounded by.

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  30. And those are the ones I'm saddest for...all the tomboy girls who 'don't fit into' feminine or female roles, like I didn't. Preferring to play with the plastic men or blocks or trucks than with dolls. Rejecting dolls at age 7, dresses at age 10, and knowing by age 12 I never wanted to marry a man. Now, instead of being a tomboy girl who grew up and came out as a Butch Dyke where I had a place in the Lesbian community, I would be convinced by parents, psychologists and trans activists that I was some version of trans, and I could have my wish of 'being a boy, and having boys/male power' by having hormones and surgeries on my female body, acts that would follow me the rest of my life and have real physical implications on my health and my sex.

    As it was I did see psychologists at a young age and have parents who never approved of my tomboy/masculine female nature...and constantly tried to femme me up to no avail....just creating a bunch of shame. Thank goodness for having a radical lesbian community to come into at the time which was strong in 1981, and Butch Dykes who were PROUD of who they were AS FIERCE WARRIOR FEMALES, and we would have the 'women's revolution' and would all be empowered i.e the statement that was popular at the time "an army of lovers will never fail". Sadly unfortunately we did, and turned upon one another due to interpersonal differences, instead of having acceptance for ALL Lesbians, Butch, Femme, Andro, Leather,nonleather, Matriarchal, Goddess worshipping and other, clean and sober and normies.....we had the infamous Lesbian sex wars and that tore us all apart. And of course the class differences, of which the more out Butches were lower/working class, and the upper scale ones more closety about it. This all hurt us...and lying in wait was this movement that has since swallowed what was left of Lesbian activism up....for it's own patriarchal and body self hating purposes....

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  31. Thank Goddess I came into that movement at that time where we were Dyke and Female Proud, even the Butchest of out Butches, rather than now, with my body intact never having seen a male false hormone or an unneeded body surgery! Pure 100% organic Butch Dyke Female!
    -M.A.

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  32. Chris,
    You mention David Reimer as a proof that gender identity is not a result of socialisation. But do you consider this: He was born with a HEALTHY body, which was later MUTILATED. If somebody had mutilated my body when I was just a little child, I would of course want it back the way it was before the mutilation. Also, he was born MALE. So, you can't compare what happened to Reimer with the life of a ftm.

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  33. Dear Dirt,

    What's with the biphobia?

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  34. Anon@6:31am

    Dismantling bisexuality doesnt equal "hate".

    dirt

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  35. Chris injecting healthy bodies with unnecessary drugs is NEVER healthy and as of yet has done nothing to "cure" the mental problems of the trans minded.

    dirt

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  36. JK89,

    I only post pics of already public pics posted by those I post. It can be assumed if one didnt want their pic on the net, they themselves wouldnt post their pics on the net. So, no, I dont worry about it.

    dirt

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  37. "Why would you assume that the cross-section of ftm's who post videos of themselves on Youtube is an accurate representation of all the ftm's out there?

    How do you make your determinations about who is "butch"?"

    May 15, 2011 2:35 PM

    I dont see where I ever said I did.

    As a Butch, and one who has been in the BF community for 20+ years, I think I know a Butch when I see one.

    dirt

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  38. "What's your take on female bodybuilders? The professional ones aka the ones on androgens?"

    May 15, 2011 2:37 PM

    I'm against steroids in ALL sports.

    dirt

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  39. "Have you ever wondered whether you are actually wrong about something? Have you ever wondered if you actually have all the information you need before you made a judgment about anything? Have you ever taken honest stock of things you've said in the past and wished you hadn't said them? Have you ever acknowledged having had a deep prejudice that affected your objectivity?
    Do you think you already know all there is to know?"

    May 15, 2011 6:07 PM

    Do I look like Faustus?

    dirt

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  40. "How do "butch" and "femme" differ from traditional heterosexual gender stereotypes?"

    May 15, 2011 7:25 PM

    Butch/Femmes are lesbians to start with and two women relate to each other quite different than males/females, especially regarding power dynamics.

    Males traditionally are the aggressors and seek out females, Femmes generally are the aggressors and seek out Butches.

    Females generally are passive and get sought after, Butches generally are passive/shy and get sought after. I guess there are some similarities then arent here.

    dirt

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  41. "hey dirt

    are u single? ;)"

    May 15, 2011 8:40 PM

    Who wants to know??...lol

    dirt

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  42. How do you feel about a woman who currently identifies as a lesbian but has had sexual relationships with men in the past? Your opinions on bisexuality and transsexuality might not be hate, but when you're part of a sexual minority yourself, alienating another is disgustingly ignorant.

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  43. Re: the David Reimer discussion: While many trans supporters like to cite his story to give evidence for there being a biologically sexed brain (that is, even though he was raised a girl, he "felt" like a boy, wanted nothing to do with "girl" things), there is something more to this story that I always felt was important. His doctor, in trying to ensure David conformed to a female role, made him enact sex positions with his twin brother in the doctor's office and made them both view pornography as young children.

    I have always wondered whether this sexual abuse wasn't the thing that made him want to never be a girl. I can only imagine that if I had had those experiences as a young girl, I too might have decided that I wanted nothing to do with being a girl/woman. If a doctor had told me that that was what being a girl/woman meant, then it is no surprise that he never wanted to be one.

    In other words, Reimer experienced what so many other women experience in our lifetimes--extreme sexism and abuse--which leads women to experience to a great variety of "issues" and problems as adults. Opting to transition can be one response to these experiences, but it doesn't address the patriarchal culture that perpetuates them, let alone allow for recognition of the systemic nature of these abuses against women.

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  44. Until homo/lezbo-phobia are eradicated, which will not happen so long as there's misogyny, lesbian invisibility and hetero "normality" will continue to pressure lesbians into hetero relationships until they have the courage to live and love who they truly desire.

    Being a lesbian does not in any way shape or form oblige me to support the brutalization of females nor oblige me to support/date the straight privileged.

    dirt

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  45. It should also be added that both David and his brother committed suicide due to the sick experiments JM put them through, as well as their doKtor John Money (father of GID) firmly believed in consensual pedophilia.

    dirt

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  46. I was a girl who was sexually abused with the aid of pornography at a young age. Kinda, 'see this- do this..". I was made to act out sex acts with a boy child by babysitters as well.

    I cannot say as a adult that these might be some of the reasons as to why I later became lesbian. I can certainly tell you that it contributed greatly to me hating my female body at that young age. And made me desire to be male = the one in control- of the situation.

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  47. Anon@9:52,

    I dont think its coincidental that a high number of ftMs have been molested as children.

    dirt

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  48. Dirt, I'm not even talking about steroids, I mean even stuff like testosterone gel.

    These women will become 'male' looking, but they are not transitioning. So what do you think is the psychology of a woman prepared to look and sound like a man to achieve their goals, yet has no desire to be one?

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  49. Steorids are illegal, but testosterone gel is easy to get anywhere...so I was just wondering what you think about female bodybuilders taking male hormones? How would you relate this to feminism in any way or do you relate it at all or consider totally irrelavant?

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  50. I should add that I know women taking the gel in very low doses to increase muscle mass and it's not enough to trigger changes in their face or voice, but gains them more muscle. Unless they accidently overdose of course...I'm the same anon for the last 3 Q's and the original one about female bodybuilders btw.

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  51. Females who feel the need to cheat in sports isnt a "feminist" issue, its a sports issue and I feel the same way about that as "the babes" record being so called "broken" its total unethical BS. Cheating is cheating, period.

    dirt

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  52. Technically it's not really cheating as bodybuilding is not like other sports and to become a pro you actually have to take steroids, it's a must. The judges all know that the competitors are all juiced up. It's no secret.

    I just wondered because there's outrage at ftm's taking hormones, but these women are also changing in even more extreme ways to a degree...

    I always feel a bit sad when I see a huge freakish female bodybuilder - I think 'what have you done to yourself' and 'what does your mother think'. I think it must be very distressing for the parents to watch their daughters become huge, hulk-like she-men with deep voices and stubble etc. You may not see many similarities to ftm, but I see some. Their bodies are changing, their brains to some degree, and certainly their lives and the way people percieve them etc. It is a very huge life change.

    I've never taken steroids or any form of male hormones and never would, but I know of very many women who do. And actually, some of these women, like some ftms, say they were either attacked or sexually assualted and that's what drove them to seek to become huge and muscular. So from what I read on this site, there are definitely some parallels with the ftms, I just wanted to ask you your thoughts on them.

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  53. BB's are tested for 'roids, do rules regarding them get broken, all the time. No matter, it is still cheating.

    dirt

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  54. Dirt,
    They are some resources out there for butch lesbians, but is there anything for tomboyish/non-traditionally feminine straight woman that you know of? There are straight females out there who struggle with thoughts of transitioning and it would be great if there where some place where they could come in contact with other tomboyish straight woman so that they could see that, yes, you can be a tomboy and a straight woman and that you don't have to transition for your "masculinity" to be accepted.

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  55. KC, I dont know of a single resource for Butches in any way shape or form besides this blog, same goes for any female thinking about transition.

    dirt

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  56. Dirt,

    I would like to know where you source your information from, and what your educational background is, because anyone with at least a college introductory understanding of statistics would know that statements like this-

    ".....a high number of ftMs have been molested as children."

    are completely falsified due to your complete ignorance of sampling. If you're going to make claims in the format of statistical analysis, make sure you are providing sources and following proper statistical guidelines.

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  57. Statistically 1 in 4 females are molested as children. It is assumed by statistician/medical community/legal community etc to be even higher, but only have proof of the 1 in 4 who come forward.

    Given the 1 in 4 stat, sans the various ftM communities/forums/topic areas devoted to being molested as children, the stats alone insure that a high number of females who transition have been molested as children.

    Does not take vast amounts of education to figure out what can only amount to common sense info.

    dirt

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  58. mAndrea:
    It's just common sense. A healthy body doesn't need to be treated with medicine or medical procedures. "My trans friend felt better after being treated" indicates there was something wrong with him/her before treatment.
    Basically that is what I said: If his vital signs (for lack of a better word because I never said anything about "feeling better" but measurable indicators being in a more as healthy defined range) are better, than shouldn't that be a sign that he actually needed the testosterone as the changes happened after taking it?

    Nowhere anywhere in my post did I say anything other than that an ftm is born into a female body. Why would I? the term ftm says exactly that. So if you could please quote to me exactly the passages that say what you claim they say (as in quote - and after the quote your interpretation in how you read that) so I can in future avoid misleading phrasing. Otherwise I have to assume that you are just not reading what I post and just decided that "hmmm this guy seems to be adamant pro-trans so lets just twist the posting around so I can then refute it"

    The most accurate thing to say (and yes I realize no one likes this, but yet it is the truth) is this: I feel like what I assume a man feels like. It literally isn't possible for you to know what being a born male feels like, because you never were one.
    Actually it is literally impossible to know what feeling like any other person male OR female is like as you have never been that person.
    The only thing that one can say is that certain way of information processing is more commonly found in males and another more commonly found in females.

    Also you are always going on about trans surgery being cosmetic. I've never brought up surgery that was you. However while I do not deny that it is a form of cosmetic surgery, I also do not say that all cosmetic surgery is unnecessary. If it is needed to improve someones quality of life, who is to argue? (Please note I speak of cosmetic surgery in general, including breast reductions for women with a huge chest, breast augmentation for women who had breast cancer, scar correction.... - again: where do you draw the line?)

    Now I am sure that you would like to counter argue and I welcome that but again, (as it might well be, that I phrased something a bit odd), could you please quote me, so I know what exactly you are referring to?

    Cheers,
    Chris

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  59. Dirt,

    Where are you getting this 1 in 4 statistic from?

    Wouldn't that mean that if 1 in 4 women are molested as children, and many women are lesbians, and many lesbians are butch, that many women become butch lesbians because of their hatred for men?

    This is how your logic comes across to me.

    And you never answered my question about your education.

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  60. To Braedyn,

    "a college introductory understanding of statistics would know that statements like this-

    ".....a high number of ftMs have been molested as children."

    are completely falsified due to your complete ignorance of sampling. If you're going to make claims in the format of statistical analysis, make sure you are providing sources and following proper statistical guidelines."


    Wow, you have certainly shown how a little knowledge is most certainly a dangerous thing! I teach research methods and statistics, and you are just throwing these terms around without any understanding yourself of what they mean.

    First, you did not use the word "falsified" properly. In statistics, a statement is falsifiable only when it contains the possibility of being proven wrong. This concept matters most in hypothesis formation. That a statement is falsifiable does not mean the statement itself is wrong.

    Second, any statistics that dirt is citing must themselves be accounted for in terms of sampling, but since dirt is not the one performing the study, she does not need to take sampling into account. (The original researcher, however, should have used proper sampling methodology when both gathering her/his sample and when deciding on the appropriate statistical test for the data set, but that is another question).

    Finally, a mere citation of another person's study does not require following "proper statistical guidelines."

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  61. Professor Anonymous-

    Dirt draws her samples and statistical analysis from surfing internet blogs.

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  62. First, if you have even the most basic knowledge about the lesbian community you would know that the BF community is by far the smallest of all the factions of lesbians.

    Second, Butches are born, not made by childhood trauma.

    Third, being molested as a child doesnt create a "hatred for men". It may create a hatred for the male (if its a male perp) who molested the female in question, but in general it creates confusion and lack of trust/intimacy with men in general unless the child gets help/love/support early on.

    Fourth, google can be your friend if you let it.

    dirt

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  63. What is the Origin of Dirt? Did you start to transition but then back off? You pass very well, which I seem to recall you saying dismays you. Is there a hormonal or genetic reason for your appearance? I get challenged going into the women's restroom sometimes but I can always convince them I belong there. But I have wondered if my chromosomes were examined if it would reveal something to explain my being butch.

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  64. rainn.org has a list of statistics that show that 1 out of every 4 females and 1 out of every 6 males thing. It's quite scary. Though I wouldn't equate to why people transition, are homosexual, or whatever people want to say. That's all we even know of what has been reported by people! Imagine what has not.

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  65. "Second, Butches are born"

    This is so not true. Go take a sociology class on learned behaviors and social mores. Or use google and google social mores.

    As for your statistics I have to agree with some of the posters that it is across the board.. Other than the statistics for males is probably higher, but due to the stigma behind males being abused many do not step forward.

    I do agree the numbers are most likely higher on females as well, but due to the stigma more do not come forward.

    Then you have people like RoseAnne Barr who later come out and say they lied. Who knows what the actual numbers are after a decade of so many jumping on the bandwagon.

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  66. jumping on the molestation bandwagon?

    or maybe they were 'asking for it' with their provocative clothing?

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  67. I'm positive that some butches are actually intersexed and some transsexuals as well without knowing it. Nature already provides alot more variation than we like to admit. I don't see the problem.

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  68. It's not so simple as omo- and biphobia only taking the form of "hate". There are many forms, some violent, some more subtle.

    In what way would you dismantle bisexuality? There are responses to every point you've made so far (not many of these points make logical sense, either).

    ReplyDelete
  69. There isnt a single course EVER in the history of education that has been designed around Butch lesbians. Butch invisibility isnt a fact for no reason.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  70. Braedyn:

    Dirt draws her samples and statistical analysis from surfing internet blogs.

    Dirt is not drawing any "samples" or conducting any statistical analysis. Those are the purview of the people who conducted the studies that the statistical outcomes are based on.

    Dirt is citing statistics that someone else compiled. Some statistics on the internet are true; some are not. The fact that a statistic is obtained from the internet does not mean ipso facto that it's not accurate.

    Please refrain from using concepts related to statistics and data analysis that you don't completely understand. While your interest in statistics is commendable, it doesn't show much integrity to pretend to know more about a topic than you actually do.

    ReplyDelete
  71. *homophobia

    "Until homo/lezbo-phobia are eradicated, which will not happen so long as there's misogyny, lesbian invisibility and hetero "normality" will continue to pressure lesbians into hetero relationships until they have the courage to live and love who they truly desire.

    Being a lesbian does not in any way shape or form oblige me to support the brutalization of females nor oblige me to support/date the straight privileged.

    dirt"
    It's biphobic and arrogant-sounding to declare that bisexual women in relationships with men are just "lesbians pressured into hetero relationships" and imply that they're cowards who lack "the courage to live and love who they truly desire". How hard is it to grasp that bisexuals are just people who have the capacity to sexually and romantically desire both sexes? What about that is so hard to understand and accept?

    I agree that everyone has the right to decide what kind of people that they want to date and that nobody should be forced to date a person with (x) trait when they don't want to; however it is a form of prejudice (biphobia) to not want to date bisexuals /purely for the fact that they are bisexual/. It's called discrimination.

    The idea that bisexuals are just gay people who want hetero-privilege or that bisexuals are only in it for the straight privilege is also biphobic (and also erroneous).

    ReplyDelete
  72. Why is butch invisibility and erasure a big deal but bisexual invisibility and erasure not?

    ReplyDelete
  73. " Dirt said...
    There isnt a single course EVER in the history of education that has been designed around Butch lesbians."

    Then quit your whining and get a team of non biased individuals who have the appropriate understanding of non-tainted sampling.. Go take the appropriate courses on statistics, non-biased sampling, and sociology and do a REAL STUDY.

    If it means this much to you and is important to you, lay down the groundwork and contribute something more than opinions and rhetoric to Butch Women..

    Then apply what you have learned to your other topics instead of cherry picked articles or segments of articles you often offer as proof.

    Meanwhile go look up social mores. There are probably some good videos on the topic on youtube which may make it easier to understand.

    ReplyDelete
  74. There isnt a thing about Butch I dont understand, hence the reason this blog works at dismantling the misogyny that invisiblizes us.

    And it seems the only "bitching" going on is from you, clearly a nerve was hit. I suggest you examine why you feel so insecure about ftMs and child molestation.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  75. Dear Dirt,

    Why do you hate/dislike/not believe that bisexuality exists (in men, women or anyone else)? I ask this because you have bashed bisexuals several times on your blog. I am a lesbian, but I have only dated bisexual/pansexual women and I don't get why anyone would have anything against bisexuals. Is being bisexual not just as natural as being gay or straight? What is wrong with bisexuals/loving them/dating them? What is wrong with female bisexuals?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anybody who knows that they are actually butch, trans, bi or lesbian, gay, or anything else that's disputed as an actual human occurrence knows for SURE that people are full of shit who claim they don't exist. Obviously these people exist because there are people who experience that reality. The ABSOLUTE WORST THING you can do if you happen to embody the very thing other people "don't believe in" is turn around and negate someone else's identity. Because it makes people absolutely CERTAIN that you are lying about who you are. It defies credibility that one would be at peace with who they are and still feel the need to destroy and discredit another person's identity.

    ReplyDelete
  77. "There isnt a thing about Butch I dont understand."

    And I could not agree more. But you also stated Not one single single course had been done on Butches. Throughout this string statistics have been addressed. Who is in a better position to do unbiased sampling and putting a course together than Butch Lesbians regarding Butch Lesbians. OY?

    Get one semester of college under your belt and do it. You are bright and could put your passion towards your varied belief systems towards a greater good.

    It is not that outlandish. Non Butch Lesbians cannot compile the studies and courses that would be available in such an informed way.

    So you can dish out your potshots. I don't care. But you do have the passion towards Butch Invisibility amongst other things. You could place it to a greater good.

    ReplyDelete
  78. The 1in 4 stat for women being abused sexually is quite well known and the notion of "education" reveals a classism that strongly influences and intersects many other isms. Dirt does her research!

    Ok so a question: Dirt, Do you connect with a larger lesbian community where you live? Is there a larger lesbian community where you live? The reason I ask is here I find that the once more vibrant lesbian community here has become assimilated into a more neutral Status-quo of Queers (LBGTQI). And gone too is the more feminist analysis that went with having a visible lesbian community.

    ReplyDelete
  79. irritated psych postgradMay 17, 2011 at 5:08 AM

    Dirt, you regularly claim research and "facts" but never provide citations - Where are you drawing your information from?

    Will you provide citations in the future?

    You claim Butches are born and not made - what makes them different on a genetic/hormonal/intro-uterine/neurological level than femme lesbians or "softball" lesbians?

    Why do you believe the "white matter" study that is regularly cited is false?

    For both you and m_Andrea, what do you consider different about the treatment of FTM's with hormones as opposed to the treatment of ADHD and similar "wiring problems" where the brain is healthy but considered malfunctioning?

    What do you consider the difference between an FTM and someone with Kleinfelters syndrome taking testosterone?

    Should a person born with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome who has a complete vulva and has been socialised as a female despite their XY chromosomes be denied the oestrogen they need to complete puberty as a female? (these women mainly go on to have mentally healthy and essentially normal lives)

    ReplyDelete
  80. I've never studied aberrations of male/female-ness and have no designs to.

    If you know any Butches and Femmes, then you KNOW we both carry/wear our femininity MUCH differently. Butch/Femme has never been clinically studied, therefore there is nothing to "cite".

    And due to Butch Invisibility unless you are a part of a BF community, or seek out knowledge of BF from actual BFs, you will remain in the dark.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  81. Kim,

    As a natural misfit, I "connect" with few. The lesbian friends I have are a few in realtime and the majority online. All of which are differently lesbian, I'm naturally closer to those who are Butch/Femme.

    The lesbian community in general I find to be ill informed and ignorant of just how dangerous "queer" politics have become and just how "queer" politics are changing the lesbian landscape for the worst.

    dirt

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  82. Um, Dirt, do you not want anyone else to respond to the questions or comments in these threads?

    That's my second question... ;) In the meantime, let's all pretend I'm NOT bossy. lol But humble apologies for stepping on toes. This is the last time, I swear.

    For both you and m_Andrea, what do you consider different about the treatment of FTM's with hormones as opposed to the treatment of ADHD and similar "wiring problems" where the brain is healthy but considered malfunctioning?

    Well for both you and Chris, please remember that one of the main (implicit) arguments posited by transfolks, is that transitioning is performed by healthy individuals. Supposedly, transitioners are healthy before, during and after transitioning.

    My point, as always, is that basic logic does not support such a premise. And then of course consistency requires further assumptions: that normal healthy women need to transition IF they feel uncomfortable with the gender role they were assigned at birth. It assumes that if a woman does not transition, then she must be happy with her role as subserviant fucktoy.

    In other words, this set of assumptions does indeed erase my humanity and the humanity of every woman on the planet. It assumes I like being a fucktoy, and so there's no reason why I should complain about being a fucktoy.

    ReplyDelete
  83. A healthy brain does not "malfunction". As soon as a healthy brain malfunctions, it is no longer considered healthy.

    ^That is exactly what I'm talking about. Trans keeps trying to find a linquistical phrase which would imply that the desire to transition is healthy.

    But a brain is either healthy, or not healthy. There are only two options, so pick one and be consistent.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Miss A,

    You can respond to anything you like, when ever you like!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  85. "The lesbian community in general I find to be ill informed and ignorant of just how dangerous "queer" politics have become and just how "queer" politics are changing the lesbian landscape for the worst."

    This cracks me up. You have to isolate yourself from people even though are LESBIANS because they choose not to reject other types of people and other ways of thinking. How incredibly pathetic and sad for you. I always suspected you were this tragic, but never knew for sure. You steep and stew in your own anger and hatred while others accept what is different than themselves and move on in happiness.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Watch, listen, understand... :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FzLWfaGtQ

    ReplyDelete
  87. @Anon 3:10

    Wow, people shy away from others who they disagree with on every issue? That's a shocker. Maybe that's why I don't have coffee with pro-lifers or go shopping with Gorean girls.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Maybe a butch course will be developed one day. I took an lgbt course in school. When we went into lesbian studies we spent a week on butch lesbians. I know that's not enough time for a lot of you guys. But it's a start right? We covered the major parts of the lgbt spectrum.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Oh yeah, dykes who don't mind mixing it up with other types or hanging out in queer spaces IS of the same import as abortion rights or people living master-slave lifestyles. You should definitely avoid them because they clearly have nothing to offer you as humans. Your mentality is what makes you useless.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anon 9:50

    You really make no sense. It sounds like you're trying to make an argument out of a pathetic play of words. (Wow, you can Google, kudos!)

    Why would anyone want to spend more time than they need to with people who constantly oppose their beliefs? That's masochistic and would probably get old very fast.

    So Dirt is selective and keeps her circle of friends small, big fucking deal. You should probably focus on the actual debate instead of trying to find ways to attack Dirt personally. It makes you look like the useless one.

    ReplyDelete
  91. irritated psych postgradMay 17, 2011 at 10:16 PM

    So, Dirt, would you agree that since you have no studied understanding of gender difference beyond strict chromosomal males and females, nature vs nurture, either social or neurological psychology, sociology, anthropology, or any other medical or social science you are actually quoting opinions and not facts?

    Why do you continue to misrepresent my field of study?

    ReplyDelete
  92. irritated psych postgradMay 17, 2011 at 10:27 PM

    "But a brain is either healthy, or not healthy. There are only two options, so pick one and be consistent."

    You argue a fallacy. A brain can be healthy as an organ but not typically functioning. See Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD, Tourette's Syndrome, Down Syndrome... Lots of "syndromes" are to do with the inherent wiring of the brain, which is normal for that brain but not average for typical functioning. It's called neurotypical vs non-neurotypical. And trust me, a lot of very intelligent Aspies would argue you into a corner if you called them "sick in the head" (An abhorrent view of mental illness BTW.)

    GID has a tested indication that it is to do with wiring of the brain. This can naturally be assisted, like other wiring problems, with therapy and medications, or with transition - making the body match the wiring of the brain.

    non-neurotypical=/=unhealthy.

    ReplyDelete
  93. irritated psych postgradMay 17, 2011 at 10:32 PM

    Is my reply to M_andrea being eaten by blogger?

    Cos I can keep with the copypasta, but if it's a blogger issue, I can post it later.

    ReplyDelete
  94. GID was made up by a quack who was a proponent of pedophilia. Made up conveniently after homosexual was removed from the DSM.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  95. irritated psych postgradMay 18, 2011 at 12:08 AM

    Actually, what John Money theorised was that gender identity was interactionist and could be changed up until a certain point. Whether he was a paedophile has no bearing on his research, what has a bearing on his research was that it was poorly carried out and reached questionable conclusions. Conclusions which have been questioned and are still being questioned by the psychological community as a whole.

    The majority of early research into gender identity was carried out by Robert Scholler as part of psychoanalytic research and Albert Bandura as part of his social learning theory.

    GID in its first form was included in the DSM III, whereas Homosexuality was removed by the DSM II, and the term and diagnostic points for "Gender Identity Disorder" wasn't included until the DSM IV in 1990.

    None of which affects the studies done which show via brain imaging a difference in brain matter between women and pre T FTM's. - Especially in the corpus callosum, which is essentially the wiring between the left and right halves of the brain.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Of which these studies/analysis of pre-T FTMs brains do not include various/varying degrees of female gender identities/roles. Until there are more studies, there will always be people who will compare GID to BIID vs. linking it to intersex issues.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Actually Money's "consensual pedophilia" has great bearing on his "studies" because those studies got him removed from John Hopkins.

    Janet frame fictional portrayal of him in Daughter Buffalo regarding the intersexed is all very telling of his "god complex". Not to mention what Money did to JF is reprehensible.

    And thus far there have been no legitimate large studies on female brains in general to know if females who have not developed the trans disorder are any different than those that do. There is also no large studies that indicate having a certain amount of "white matter" in your brain as a female causes females to develop the trans disorder.

    And if you want to bring in "studies" even the greatest minds of the medical community question studies, even large studies. Any doctor can find what he wants to find, proves nothing.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/

    dirt

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  98. irritated psych postgrad said...

    "Why do you continue to misrepresent my field of study?"

    Talk about irritated. Funny how many that delve so deep into YOUR field of study have mental issues themselves. Hence the obsession with defending it. YOUR field btw has been wrong time and time again throughout history. YOUR field is subject to trends just like everything else.

    YOUR begining to sound like a real classist asshole, who can't take in simple observations, without arguing them for shits and giggles. Believe it or not, there are many in this world who think that most of psychology is utter bullshit.

    And brains?! Any person who is knowledgeable on brains know that we as humans still have no freaking clue whats going on in brains.

    ReplyDelete
  99. As long as femininity is put on a pedestal, even in the women's spirituality movement, the term: "Divine Feminine", when indeed there are thousands of Goddess representations of all body sizes, races, temperaments, expressions, ect. of such a diversity we NEVER see in the media, one can see with the Goddess images themselves how originally they were very primal, mostly a depiction of garguantuan undefined females(meaning more of a universal Female)_that as civilization continues they get shrunken down in size, and concurrently with the particular culture, the reverence of women get shrunken down in power and ability, She is more and more feminized and differentiated.

    To look back there are only a handful of Goddesses I could cite who are 'Butch', if not solely in appearance, certainly in temperament, defenders of women and of women's mysteries, often Warriors and Protectors in their own right, and the Crone, the aged one is considered the most powerful in Her way....these Goddesses get demonized the more patriarchal males begin to empower themselves AT THE EXPENSE OF WOMEN, and women's spiritual power, demonize any form of physical or sexual deviance, and replace the honoring of the Sacred Female, the Warriors, the Priestesses, the Amazons, with THEIR OWN worship of the male,does the Goddesses then become more and more helpmates, highly feminized, sexualized, and then ultimately invisibilized....that the roles of women are shrunken down, the acceptable appearances of women further controlled, the more women, whether a form of womon loving womon Butch, or a strong peasant kind of heterosexual capable woman Butchness to work the farm, handle animals, tools or even choose to go to war, begins to be demonized.

    The Butch THREATENS patriarchal males, because she takes up her space in a way a woman is 'not meant to', because now she's meant to be his helpmate, fuck object,in the domestic sphere providing sons for him, ect. ect., and ANY FEMALE out of that role with much greater independence is a threat BECAUSE SHE COULD BE A SEXUAL or Economic equal! She could be competing for women too, or competing for the same opportunities to make a heroic name for herself, or have a legacy. But by keeping her down, and demonizing the Butch aspect of Femaleness, straight or Lesbian, as well as the Crone aspect(older women who were tribal healers/shamans/spiritually and magically powerful), and ONLY honoring the nubile Maiden to be conquered for her 'maidenhead', or the nurturing Mother aspect to be the bearer of his sons, all of women's power has thusly been stolen away by and for the spiritual, economic, emotional and physical ascendancy and pleasures of men....hence the state we STILL are in to this day..as we scrabble for what few rights we do have....
    -MasterAmazon

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  100. Blogger Dirt said...

    It should also be added that both David and his brother committed suicide due to the sick experiments JM put them through, as well as their doKtor John Money (father of GID) firmly believed in consensual pedophilia.

    dirt

    May 16, 2011 9:22 AM

    You state John Money is the father of GID, is there a chance GID was around before and sort of "formal" documentation?
    again stated about consensual pedophilia, was there are "medical relations to those living with GID?

    There are many pedophiles who claim there can be a consensual relationship between adult and child.. like Homosexuality who is to say in the future that it wont be legalized?

    apart from being
    - a women
    - butch
    - lesbian

    who are YOU to judge someone else and the way they live their life

    I wont lie i thought this blog was a crock when i first read it, but only because i was afraid of what i had to read BUT ive questioned not only this blog and beyond this blog... but im still me

    ReplyDelete
  101. Dirt, I've always wondered....how do you deal with "lipstick lesbians" who are femmes who prefer other femmes? I'm hoping you don't harbor any resentment towards them because they don't cater to your butch-femme desires! Likewise transmen aren't likely to cater to your ideas of masculinity and femininity!

    -happily bisexual

    ReplyDelete
  102. Do you recognize young butches as actual butches or to young to know?

    ReplyDelete
  103. I'm a Butch lesbian who naturally partners with Femme lesbians, non Femme lesbians do not obviously enter into it, so there is nothing to "deal" with.

    dirt

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  104. What is your definition of butch lesbian and femme lesbian?

    ReplyDelete
  105. I think I finally got it!

    Are you a binary believer, or are there other variables of gender identification and sexual orientation that have more then 1 or 2?

    bi·na·ry/ˈbīnerē/
    Noun: The binary system of notation.
    Adjective: Using or denoting a system of numerical notation that has 2 rather than 10 as a base.


    And in speaking of sexual AND gender orientation I TOTALLY get why you only see:

    butch/femme
    femme/femme
    butch/butch
    male/male
    female/female
    female/male

    This is your world and one has every right to revolt against what one does not believe in.

    This is my understanding coming from your blog,live journal, yahoo groups etc.



    Also know...


    One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do
    Two can be as bad as one
    It's the loneliest number since the number one



    Humans are ever evolving, and in the end we are dirt. (literally)

    ReplyDelete
  106. Keep reading Anon@12:51 because clearly you are not even in the ballpark.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  107. 1251pm Here:


    So with out rambling...

    Do you only believe in only binary grouping?

    If no, please explain why


    Thanks!

    (Take out man if you desire, in the equation!)

    ReplyDelete
  108. I believe in dismantling patriarchal structures in order destroy misogyny.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  109. May 19, 2011 8:05 AM-
    "There are many pedophiles who claim there can be a consensual relationship between adult and child.. like Homosexuality who is to say in the future that it wont be legalized?

    apart from being
    - a women
    - butch
    - lesbian

    who are YOU to judge someone else and the way they live their life"

    One caring bastard when it comes to children, thats who! And if there was a death penalty for molesting children, I would have no qualms throwing the fucking switch to kill the sick fucks!

    Most people actually love their children, and there isnt a chance in hell pedophilia will EVER be okay with them! Only the VERY SICK SICK minded would think otherwise!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  110. Do you recognize young butches as actual butches or to young to know?

    May 20, 2011 7:12 AM

    Age has nothing to do with being Butch. We all started as baby Butches.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  111. So you not only judging those who wish to cross gender but those who choose to "love a child", like you "love a women"?

    i ask this as there is not only in history but in present where people still believe and do practice "the death penalty" for homosexuality.

    so from my understanding what you are suggesting to do to pedophiles is no different what people continue to do towards homo's
    im just trying to clear this up in my mind.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Can you do a blog post on this thing called natural transitioning?

    ReplyDelete
  113. NotaFTM Just a SupporterMay 24, 2011 at 10:10 AM

    Weren't we trying to fight this whole being a lesbian thing is a disease too back when it used to be a mental disease? Maybe we're all sick because we love women.

    For all the trans out there, stop fighting and just let Dirt be. Look at her/him/it, it's dressed like a man, looks like a man, and if you saw it on the street you would say "excuse me, sir". This seems similiar to the priest that preach against child molestors and then molests the children in the confession box. Anyone who agrees has someone they know and love as ftm or mtf and want a reason to not love and accept them. It is being a hypocrite by wanting us to accept it for being a lesbian, but not accept others as something different. :) Have a good day Dirt.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Nota,

    With a few short words you just proved everything ever written in the blog.

    thank you

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  115. NotaFTM Just a SupporterMay 24, 2011 at 10:37 AM

    That was a sticks and stones kind of answer, not a response.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Would you do a post on your views of the "genderless" kids?

    ReplyDelete
  117. Anon@10:44pm

    I'll do one on Friday.


    dirt

    ReplyDelete

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