Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, May 8, 2011

FTM Transition, Mothers and Electra

In lieu of Mother's Day (Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there btw) I'm going to write a bit about ftM transition, the ultimate in mother rejection.

I put little faith in psychiatry in general, because far too often it seems for every step forward psychiatry takes, it takes a big leap backward, which immensely slows and diminishes any progress in the field. Modern psychiatry while being indebted to Freud and other Freudian theorist, later (especially post feminism) have logically discarded many Freudian theories, while feminism has made chop liver of the rest.

So what happens to those old, out dated Freudian dragons that feminism once slayed now that feminism's blade has been dulled for decades? What happens when feminism's blunted blade has been replaced by the male medical machine's sterile technology?  I'll tell you what happens, some of those dragons return, only now they aren't being slayed, but flayed instead!

One such dragon is the Freudian Electra Complex, the gist of which consists of Freud's notions of the psycho-sexual development of the female; complete with penis envy, rejection of the mother in favour of the penised father then later transferred to the penised husband. Any female with the most basic feminist spine can easily gut the Electra Complex with one hand while picking their teeth clean using its bones with the other.

But I'm writing about the absence of feminism, an absence amid a techno savvy psychiatry and male medical machinate. It is through this feminist absence that the Freudian dragons are returning in hordes and droves, all of which, coincidentally, have a hefty price tag attached with no promise of a "cure," that at least Freud did offer! The Electra Complex, known now as Female Transition, is back with a rejuvenated vengeance and vigor!

Like the Electra Complex that Freud/Jung theorized pre-feminism, whereby it was believed girls felt their mothers failed them by not providing them (through birth) with the almighty penis (the portal of possibilities), girls rejected their mother in favor of the father (penis/possibility envy). In our post-(non) feminist state, with females being sexualized and objectified at younger and younger ages, with hyper femininity portrayed as the norm, females are again rejecting their mothers in favor of their father's (penis/possibilities), only in a whole new way. Rather than females merely envying the penis (possibilities) their mothers didn’t provide them, they are opting through female transition to obtain the penis (possibilities) by becoming men themselves! This is the ultimate in mother rejection/hatred!

It is normal to reject some of the dreams and ideas our mothers had for us, to reject the female she wanted us to be so we could be our own adult woman. To reject the very thing she created with her female body, however, is a fist to the face of every mother of a female transitioner! Female transition is a big FUCK YOU to mothers everywhere with psychiatry and the male medical machine largely to blame, both of which have a long history of mother misogyny.

It is said if you wait long enough, fads and styles will eventually come back around. But unlike bell-bottoms or platform shoes that are ugly, but harmless, the Electra Complex in its current incarnation, aka female transition, is both dangerous to females everywhere and insulting to the mothers of females who transition. And like the long detrimental history psychiatry has had with mothers, female transition feeds right into psychiatry's long standing blame-game it continues playing with mothers today.

May some kind of peace be with every mother who has lost their daughter to this deadly disorder.

dirt
Share:

69 comments:

  1. you call yourself a feminist and then make a case for the Electra Complex? reevaluate yourself.

    to be certain, i understand you are not ADVOCATING the Electra Complex (the very opposite, i'm pretty sure) but by suggesting that transitioning is "the new Electra Complex" you're asserting A.) that the Electra Complex was valid when Freud first proposed it (it wasn't.) and B.) that the Electra Complex is valid today (it isn't).

    ReplyDelete
  2. The same reasons women were diagnosed with penis envy are many of the same reasons females transition today, and both involve the absence of feminism. And many of the same reasons freud/freudians believed females developed penis envy (EC) are the very same reasons the male medical machine believe females transition.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  3. The mother-rejecting FtM transition is very evident in the story of 'Chaz' (Chastity) Bono, whose upcoming documentary I read a story on this morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/fashion/08CHAZ.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=becoming%20chaz&st=cse
    Aside from the confusion I'm sure being raised by Cher can cause a non-conforming female, her 'reasons' are the familiar ones- playing with the boys as a child, being treated better than she was as a woman by men who somehow think her male...

    ReplyDelete
  4. Every single one of your miserable days is devoted to discrediting transmen and that makes me feel sorry for you. While we lead our lives, you obsess with any new way to try and make us seem fucked up. In the end, this makes your life futile and a waste.

    I'm happy to report that I'm closer to my mother and father than I've ever been since my transition. Our communication is more frequent, open, vulnerable, and real. We have rebuilt the trust in our family based on truth-telling. They have my back. That's what I've got...what do you have, Dirt?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I really don't what to say to this post. My mother and I are closer emotionally after I told her how I felt. My mother also never had big dreams for me or anything. All she wanted was me to do what made me happy. And, for a long time I pretended I was.

    I finally broke and cried my eyes one evening and told her, afraid she would reject me. She didn't, and i'm soo glad, because honestly, my mother means the world to me. I made myself unhappy just because I thought it would make HER happy to have a daughter.

    So, equating female transition to punching my mother in the face, is rather affronting to me.

    ReplyDelete
  6. What I'm getting from this is: if you don't like one thing about your body or the way you were born, you hate your mother. If I'd been born with a cleft lip and corrected it, would that be me rejecting my mother because she failed me?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hilarious! This blog provides me with endless comic relief! Thank you for that!

    ReplyDelete
  8. You can not make points like this to trans'boys'
    They can not go it seems beyond surface ideas of 'gender'
    Lest their illusory lives crumble
    I think I will stop coming to this blog as it leaves me flustered and frustrated
    But I just want all the FTMs to know that to any sensitive individual (mostly women probably) you will always read as female and tragic

    ReplyDelete
  9. Oh thanks Mouse, but I can't even get read as trans by other ftm's! And to me, petty insecure haters like yourself are just wasting their own valuable time. Get a life mouse!

    ReplyDelete
  10. If we wanna talk about ideal life's mothers want for their daughters we ought to add being a lesbian as a fuck you. Since ideally mothers want their daughters to marry a man and live a "normal" life. Mothers usually take finding out their daughter is gay the hardest. In the same sense mtf are they saying fuck you to their fathers.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I'm not quite sure how anyones mother could "fail them" because of the lack of having a penis/giving them a penis. Seeing as it is the fathers contribution to the conception that determines the physical gender of the child.

    With this said there is no way that transition is a "Fuck You" or a "Punch in the face" to the mother. As a trans person, who happens to be a nursing student with a bit of medical knowledge, I found myself struggling with resentment towards my father for my lack of a penis rather then my mother.

    ReplyDelete
  12. My mother is damned proud of me for standing up and being myself. She told me again today when I called her to wish her a Happy Mother's Day how proud she is of me that I have stood up for myself and against society to be myself. She said she couldn't be prouder of her oldest Son.

    Why should I be ashamed? I have never been ashamed of being who and what I am. There's no reason for me to be ashamed what so ever.

    I was diagnosed with having GID in 1990 when I was 18 years old after going though 3 years of therapy. I'm 39 now. Trend? I think not. I waited years to go on T but could have at 18 years old but knew nothing about it. My choice and my choice now after being on T now for a year and almost 10 months. Am I ashamed? Hell no! Trend or fad? Hell no!

    My mother doesn't think that me being a man is a punch in her face by any means. She loves me for me and accepts me for me. She has no regrets as have no regrets for who and what I am. My mother is a proud mother and loves me for me. Oh and I don't resent my mother in any way shape, or form. I don't reset my father either and by the way he loves me and accepts me as his first born son.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I don't think it's reasonable to lump all transmen in one box. Of course misogyny is rampant in our society and because of this it follows that mysogyny-informed transition IS a legitimate concern and those who hold that view SHOULD NOT be silenced. I agree with you there. However If you were truly arguing that gender- reassignment is misogynist then you would be talking about MtF's a well, as this is also a feminist issue. As you focus almost entirely on trans men, ignoring Mtf transition, it does come across that you may have a deep-seated aversion to men.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You make such a fool of yourself it's not a big "FUCK YOU" to mothers. Not every mother wants a daughter and not every father wants a son. People don't get diagnosed with penis envy. The clitoris is basically a penis, it's just a lot smaller and can't do some things a penis can. I honestly believe your doctor should have diagnosed you with trans man envy or with being a misandrist. You take feminism to an extreme and over exaggerate it. I know men can be pretty rude but it's the same for women.

    ReplyDelete
  15. All this seems too hysterical to actually be true. I'm starting to think you might be trolling... because this is beyond ridiculous. How can a mother fail their child in this sense? You could argue this for disability, homosexuality (if your upbringing frowns upon it), aesthetic defect...

    Freud also put the case forward that Electra is why women are gay, and Oedipus for gay men. According to Freudian theory, you've just declared yourself a deviation from human nature. Niiice one.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Your ridiculous, hateful ideas are a big "FUCK YOU" to feminism and women everywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  17. " The clitoris is basically a penis, it's just a lot smaller and can't do some things a penis can."
    Hahahaha. And a prostate is a uterus!

    Seriously tho- Happy Mother's Day!

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  18. " I can't even get read as trans by other ftm's!"

    Well, they also think that THEY look male, so their perception is (un)naturally off...

    I notice many FTMs here like to distance themselves from others, saying how much better they 'pass' or how much more mature they are than the rest, or how their reasons for 'transitioning' are more correct or noble than those of the growing multitudes'...

    Ha and a clitoris is basically a penis, too much!
    People are actually being taught things like this these days

    ReplyDelete
  19. Brandon,

    If you were being yourself, you wouldnt being trying to be someone else. Which says a great deal about who/what your mother is really "proud" of. How sad for you both. I'm sorry.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  20. not only is it a fuck you to the mothers, but also to mother nature- who does not make mistakes. humanity on the other hand has made all the mistakes of the world, destoying it with those mistakes. and humanity/you for having the inflated ego enough to think that it can change it.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Just like every mother is proud of their daughter for being a dyke!

    ReplyDelete
  22. "I notice many FTMs here like to distance themselves from others, saying how much better they 'pass' or how much more mature they are than the rest, or how their reasons for 'transitioning' are more correct or noble than those of the growing multitudes'..."

    Um, yes. That's because most of you lesbian trolls are obsessively watching YouTube videos of ftm teenagers who don't pass yet and act like TEENAGERS. Then, you base your judgment of the whole ftm population on those kids. There are transpeople everywhere because crossing gender IS human behavior. So inevitably you will find young, old, mature, immature, passing, non-passing, intellectual, boorish, and every other possibility. It's only because you are trying to discredit us and stereotype us that you would try to paint us with the same brush. Are you ready to take responsibility for the words of all other dykes? Jesus, I hope not. So I will reserve my right to set myself apart from stupid or violent ftm responses, but I certainly don't blame them. They are only reacting to the ignorant hatred of strangers as I would have many years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  23. anon @ 12;07
    "There are transpeople everywhere because crossing gender IS human behavior."

    that may be- but it is a modern day medical trend to actually inject oneself with a synthetic hormone to attempt to change the naturally born sex, to so called match that gender that you are trying to cross into.
    herein lies the issues we are having. not in expressing your 'gender' in any way you so choose. you can and should do that, yet you are still considered a woman, cause that's yer sex.
    all we are saying is that as a society we as a people should be able to dress/act in anyway we so choose period dot. we should not have to adhere to the social pressures to box ourselves into what society tells us is that appropriate box. how do you people not get that?!

    we are saying that women can look/act like anything they so desire. not what tv/internet/world tells us how to look/act like.

    i know it's hard to grasp this radical idea....

    ReplyDelete
  24. This blog isnt about "discrediting" the trans disorder, it is about highlighting the structures in place that cause some females to develop this disorder so that we can dismantle those structures and actually like/love who we are as females.

    Try reading and comprehending, rather than reacting to what you THINK is being said.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  25. I'm the 'lesbian troll'(?!) from earlier and wanted to say that I do not watch teenagers' youtube videos; my opinions on FTMs are from real life (I'm from the Big City), and I've seen and known many, and of various ages...

    ReplyDelete
  26. "we are saying that women can look/act like anything they so desire. not what tv/internet/world tells us how to look/act like."

    YOU can do whatever you want! I've never said otherwise! But that's not all you are talking about is it? You are talking ftm's, who do not consider themselves women. You are talking people who are NOT YOU, and whose experience you do not share! How do you people not get that? We are not trying to tell you what to do with your bodies, so stop telling us what we should do, based on your own thoughts and experiences.

    ReplyDelete
  27. "so that we can dismantle those structures and actually like/love who we are as females."

    But Dirt, I WANT you to like/love who you are as a female. That's in my best interest too, because I feel that if you really did, you'd be better able to differentiate between your own experience and self and what you think you know of other's selves. If you think about it, people who are really content and self-loving are not that likely to try and tell other people who they are.

    ReplyDelete
  28. "(I'm from the Big City), and I've seen and known many, and of various ages..."

    Wow. And they all suck? That seems statistically unlikely. I know several ftm's in New York and they are wonderful, stellar humans. Not just friendly and smart, but also fully engaged in making the world a better place for all types of humans every day.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I didn't say they 'suck'
    (though they all look like ftm's to me, not men)
    I was talking about people on here saying how much more valid their own transitioning is than that of others

    ReplyDelete
  30. Wow, my mother blew a gasket when I came out as a lesbian. She wanted nothing to do with that lifestyle. She always told me she loved me no matter what but she didn't want that kind of lifestyle for me. When I came out as transgender years ago she took that much better. She didn't want me to have a hard life but she knew from when I was a child that I wasn't a lesbian. That it was more than that. But she didn't tell me that, and let me find myself on my own. She didn't want to tell me her thoughts on how I viewed myself as a child. She did wonder if I grew up still believing I was male because those are the things I said as a very young child. Telling me those things would have progressed my transition and helped me come to terms with what I felt but she loved me enough to let me figure our who I was and love me no matter what.

    ReplyDelete
  31. To the Anon. that argued it's a 'fuck you' not only to mothers but also to mother nature...by that reasoning so is every other corrective surgery for whatever disease/birth defect/ailment (call it whatever you want)...by that reasoning science and medicine would remain where they were thousands of years ago...by that reasoning you commit the false dichotomy fallacy in reasoning: namely dividing that everything 'natural' is good/pure/true and everything 'man made/synthetic' is evil, etc...that is not the case. Nature is far from perfect. Look how many diseases/disorders there are out there. You're just giving your opinion as to which ones should be corrected and which ones shouldn't...

    ReplyDelete
  32. Cures aren't all evil. Surgeries aren't all evil. Not even prosthetics, especially artificial limbs. They make a difference. So do penis prosthetics in many cases, trans-men included.

    ReplyDelete
  33. anon @ May 9, 2011 7:10 PM

    "YOU can do whatever you want! I've never said otherwise! But that's not all you are talking about is it? You are talking ftm's, who do not consider themselves women. You are talking people who are NOT YOU, and whose experience you do not share! How do you people not get that? We are not trying to tell you what to do with your bodies, so stop telling us what we should do, based on your own thoughts and experiences."

    if you took time to actually read this blog, and it's comments you would find many accounts of butch lesbians who grew up 'feeling' the exact same 'feelings' described by these young ftms. as i did.
    we too grew up hating our female bodies, grew up 'feeling' male, etc.

    do you not recognize that almost all of the ftms describe verbatium the exact same types of 'feelings' growing up?! i mean really. you are not so individual. and it's really egotistical to think you you are.

    we are all humans sharing a existance on this sexist planet that as a whole treats women as less than. this affects YOU and ME as females born into this world. YOU cannot escape it. To fool yourself otherwise is just ignorance of how social pressures influence us as a people.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anon@9:48,

    I've heard this same story many times. Parents are more comfortable having a female child transition, than be a lesbian.

    No wonder internalized homophobia plays so strongly in some transitions.

    We see this often in the reasoning behind minority males who transition amid hyper-masculinity.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  35. anon @ May 10, 2011 1:29 AM

    um wake up. there is a big difference in mental illness (BID) and a born physical deformatiy.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anon@8:30am

    I couldnt agree more!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  37. it's like these trannies can't read. or they just discoved this blog and come to troll and rant.

    cuz it's the same arguments on their side over and over.
    it's tiring. and no one here is buying the whole "born this way" bullshit. you were born female.
    you were intended to be female. period.

    sucks for you that females just happen to be lower on the power scale than men. cuz that's what all this is about power. and not wanting to be looked upon as sexual objects constantly like women are.

    ReplyDelete
  38. I just noticed, someone actually said the clit is/works like a small penis! WHA?

    It is amazing how little females really know about their own bodies. I blame the still very present shame females are conditioned regarding their own pussies. Masturbation is still seen as something only males do.

    Females, do NOT be afraid or ashamed to explore your pussy. It is a fountain of pleasure at your finger tips!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  39. Yea Dirt has talked about the "butch experience" which is not the same for all butches. Different people different experiences. No ones life is the same it differs by culture, region, and etc. Dirts butch facts many of my butch friends read it and did not identify with it. Why? Because times change and butches are more accepted today. My butch friends have girls all over them gay and straight. They have a ton of self confidence. If someone is comfortable with themselves they should be able to show it. They are not older butches with years to work on being comfortable with their being butch.
    Anyways times change so people become more comfortable with who they are. Are able to live as such. Yes some women share some of the same experiences as ftms growing up. Just because some are not ftm you cannot discredit an ftms childhood experience. like just because a women has slept with women and had feelings for women does not make them a lesbian.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anon@8:38,

    We cant blame females for wanting to escape sexual objectification or for wanting to have everything we should ALL be entitled to without having to be a male to get it.

    The problem is instead of working to change society so that those things become possible, the male medical machine has made it possible for women to jump ship so to speak.

    That problem is compounded when those women who jump ship and transition, never utilize their new found power and male privilege to challenge what caused them to jump ship in the first place.

    You will not find a single ftM group created that challenges/tries to educate men/male privilege.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  41. "Butches are more accepted today"????....seriously, what word do you live in????

    Tell that to any Butch who has to use the public loo, tell that the constant "passing" BS we have to deal with when we leave our homes, tell that to the baby Butches who have yet to see a single Butch who is a public figure!

    Oh and when I write about Butches, I write about Butches, not dykes.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  42. @Anon 8:56am

    Most likely you're talking about baby dykes who sport short emo haircuts and do their best to dress like a dude/douchebag. That doesn't make a Butch. The only reason they get a lot of girls is because they were the most visibly "lesbian" when they dress that way. That doesn't make them Butch. That makes them society's "non-threatening" version of "butch." They still look like girls even if they're trying to look male.
    True Butches don't have it easy at all. People taunt them out of the women's bathroom, call them "transmen in denial," and are not at all appreciated for the women they actually are. How do you explain the millions of Stone Butches out there who would rather go untouched than to let themselves become vulnerable against all that?
    If you throw a dress and make up on a true Butch, you would see immediately there's something odd about her. She still looks Butch under all that.
    You probably can't say that about all your little friends.

    ReplyDelete
  43. @Scribe & Anon 8:56

    Not to mention that self-confidence or the appearance of it is easily performed. A Butch can be out there all swagger, confidence, etc. but it's a show. She has the same (or worse) anxieties about her body, sexuality, etc. as any other female.

    And straight girls being all over Butches -- that's not a new thing for "today's Butches." That's been going on since forever.

    ReplyDelete
  44. "if you took time to actually read this blog, and it's comments you would find many accounts of butch lesbians who grew up 'feeling' the exact same 'feelings' described by these young ftms. as i did.
    we too grew up hating our female bodies, grew up 'feeling' male, etc."

    I have taken lots of time to read this blog and have read accounts of people reporting some of the same feelings I had as a kid. There is nothing that guarantees that a person who calls themselves butch today won't call themselves trans tomorrow. You can't even guarantee to me that YOU won't. Even if you did, I would not believe you because too many of you come here to hate on ftm's rather than going out and living your butch lives. It's all just words to me, whereas physicality is a tangible thing. Just because you have decided it's "stronger" or more "true" or more "real" to NOT change your bodies does not actually mean you are not trans, or will not keep wishing for a flat chest, more muscles or any other physical change you have been wanting your entire lives. I'll be the one who is really happy with how I look and feel after transitioning, and doesn't spend the whole day bitter about what other people are doing with their OWN lives.

    ReplyDelete
  45. anon @ May 10, 2011 12:44 PM

    that's just it! you finally see the difference!

    we decided to deal with our mental illness of BID- and learn to accept reality on realities terms. not force reality to come to terms with our own disordered image of ourselves!

    and sure we may wish to not have curves and smaller breasts just like you- however we fundamentally get it that we can learn to accept our bodies for how they are without mutilation! we can work out and eat right and learn to live with the best results we can acheive thru um... will power and hard work- (both mental and physical!)

    as much as you want to deny it- transexuality is a mental condition! BID is a mental disorder! even YOUR doctors agree with that. they (and most young ftms who just want instant gratification)- don't want to go through the long battle of really coming to terms with why it is you really feel this way and have for ever since you/we can remember.

    and the longer battle of forever living as a non conforming female in our world as it is.

    ReplyDelete
  46. anon at 12:44
    "I'll be the one who is really happy with how I look and feel after transitioning, and doesn't spend the whole day bitter about what other people are doing with their OWN lives."

    HA! Dsyphoria does not just go away after transition. Many times it gets worse. You will never be a normal man. With a functioning penis. Ask real men what makes a man.. this is the real reason why you don't see these ftms trying to force men to accept them- they only go after us women! cause they know that men will never really accept them as men. sure theres the occassional gay guy that will 'treat' you like a guy- but those are the same ones that are weirdly obsessed with super butch girls too- because they look like young hairless twinks to them! they really just want to fuck both your holes for awhile till they grow tired of it.

    seems like you in fact are spending days feeling bitter- or a better word- defensive with constantly coming to a blog by and for women. if you really were secure in your decision and happy with it you wouldn't really be concerned with this blog or whats being said on it.

    you all have plenty of your own spaces where all nod in a chorus of agreement and there is no room for any different voices. go there then!

    ReplyDelete
  47. I too, find it strange that I cannot go to a gay bar without gay men hitting on me or being very innappropriate with me: touching, etc. I am a butch woman, who does appear very masculine. It's really bizarre how many gay men hit on me. I'm thinking that like you said above it's because to them I appear to look like a young boy (16-21). Which makes me think about gay men and misogyny.
    They are often very disrespectful even when I am with my (femme) girlfriend. They say really inappropriate things to her too and it's put a major damper on us going to our neighborhood bar for just a casual drink- because of the harrassment I get from gay men.

    ReplyDelete
  48. If I had a nickle for every time I was approached by a gay man I could have retired years ago!

    Even after they "know", many Butches still get the "I'd swing for you" gay male BS.

    Ummm, yeah, like I really wanna cork a fag! No thanks boys, Femmes ONLY!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  49. "we decided to deal with our mental illness of BID- and learn to accept reality on realities terms. not force reality to come to terms with our own disordered image of ourselves!"

    Oh, you don't believe people's reality is always changing? You want me to accept your reality, where it's okay to be gay but trans doesn't exist? That's foolishness. Like you all *just* made it through the reality gate and now you want to close it before anyone else gets to be seen as legitimate. Stupid.How incredibly shortsighted.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anon@2:46pm,

    Trans clearly exist, thanks to the male medical machine. It isnt however something one is born. Were trans people born, like gays or lesbians, they wouldnt need the male medical machine to exist, which they do.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  51. Just because you don't transition does not mean you aren't trans.

    ReplyDelete
  52. @Anon 3:14pm

    Wow, do you not realize you just proved most of her points just by that simple (yet poorly constructed) sentence?

    ReplyDelete
  53. No I don't see it, "scribe". Trans is real, people are trans, some people don't transition, some dont, some dont but still bitch and whine about others who transition because they can't deal with their own shit.

    ReplyDelete
  54. If Female Genital Mutilation was as widely accepted here as in Northeast Africa, I'm sure many Feminists would be outraged. Women who fight against such a thing wouldn't be doing so because they're jealous, because they didn't get to have their nether regions sliced up and have their clitorises torn out.

    Transitioning can be compared to FGM, no matter how much people build it up. If you actually see both bottom surgery and a sterile session of FGM side by side, you wouldn't be able to see much difference.

    Dirt is against it because she sees it as legalized Female Genital Mutilation. To say that she is Trans herself proves how automatic that idea is in the general population's head. She doesn't look like a woman (or what you see as woman), therefore she's not.

    You see her as a hater instead of merely an alternative voice. Every issue has two sides (abortion, gay marriage, etc), yet the whole Trans Movement has yet to have an audible opposition. Why does it upset you so much to finally have someone who disagrees publicly?

    ReplyDelete
  55. People have always audibly disagreed with transsexuals, it's just that they used to just kill us. Just because there is a feminist slant on dirt's shit does not make it less shitty. I suppose the women on here are reacting to what they consider an onslaught, whereas I react protectively around a group that's always been marginalized in western cultures.

    ReplyDelete
  56. And I do not react to the way dirt looks. I react to her obsession with transmen. I'll assume a person is butch if that's what they tell me. I don't try and tell other people who they are unless they raise such a huge stink about ftm's that you can only assume they are obsessed.

    ReplyDelete
  57. There is a huge difference between outright hate and disagreement. There are plenty of political movement to protect transexuals (both pre-and post-op) and plenty of support from pop culture and the media, but there's no type of voice that encourages an alternative to transitioning.

    If you do a search for Butch lesbian resources, I can guarantee that you will not find anything that DOESN'T hint, lean, or point directly at transitioning. What does that do to Baby Butches? Even if transexuals are born, don't you think that sort of thing would convince non-transexuals to transition?

    Or do you even care about those girls? Do you just see this blog as an attack on YOU specifically instead of something for those confused girls to hold on to?

    ReplyDelete
  58. I care about people, period. I do not care how they identify or what choices they make with their own bodies regarding their genders.

    If Dirt's motives were good, she'd put aside her personal and ego-based problems with ftm's long enough to realize that the best and ONLY way to get done what she wants to do is to ignore us outright. By uplifting butch culture and women, by asserting that women can be or look like anything they want, and by completely leaving us off her radar, she can achieve what she wants. By attacking us every day and lying, she looks silly and obsessive, plus highly suspect. If her cause were worth it's salt, she wouldn't need to talk about ftm's at all to get followers and support young girls who are likely to want to get that support for being female. It's so obvious! I *want* people to have better boundaries and self-knowledge because it inevitably leads to them leaving other people alone.

    ReplyDelete
  59. A single butch who feels good enough about herself to NOT cut others' identities down and serves as an attractive role model can help more young women than one thousand of Dirt's posts. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  60. One devoted to dismantling misogyny and unloosening the tight female gender belt does.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  61. "I care about people, period. I do not care how they identify or what choices they make with their own bodies regarding their genders."

    That doesn't really answer my question, but that's okay. You've revealed more than what you probably intended.

    You don't care about how they identify, therefore you don't care how informed they are about their identity. You don't know if they're just confused girls jumping on the bandwagon. You'd have to be an idiot to not admit that there must be at least a few cases of that happening (and there have been plenty of girls here who have come forward).

    "If Dirt's motives were good, she'd put aside her personal and ego-based problems with ftm's long enough to realize that the best and ONLY way to get done what she wants to do is to ignore us outright."

    Back to the FGM analogy, which is how Dirt sees transition...

    If Female Genital Mutilation was practiced in America, and women who went through are parading around telling everyone how great it is to NOT have a clitoris, should Feminists merely attempt to be positive, clit-having role models for young girls who are thinking about FGMs? How effective would that be?

    The most logical thing would be to show the dangers of FGMs, show examples of what FGMs have done to other girls, show how FGM girls can be not as happy as they portray, etc.... pretty much what Dirt does here.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hmmm... I am a younger butch and I don't get taunted or teased. I don't have "emo hair". I don't have a hard time in the bathroom. I am sometimes mistaken for a man. But I don't experience the butch shame or anything of the such. I am accepted by my peers. I guess I am lucky that I don't have those issues. I think times are easier for the younger butches. I usually don't look up to older butches from what I experienced they are hypocritical. At the same time I realize they made it so life is easy for me. Another not my best friend is ftm and he never has pressured me to transition. I love him to death and support him. So does my mom who has been a very active feminist for over 20 years.

    ReplyDelete
  63. It's exactly the FGM parallel that I feel won't work in helping vulnerable young non-gender-conforming girls. Regardless of your sense that they are just victims of the patriarchy, these people feel they have the right to figure out their own gender, physical presentation, and identities. They are likely to be wary of anyone claiming to know anything about them that they have not agreed to themselves. That is as it should be. Regardless of your desire for them to identify as female, nobody is quite sure of what that means or what it should mean to them. Generally people can show quite a bit of resistance to being defined as victims without any agency of their own.

    The FGM/FTM parallel is not clear to me, and probably not to many other ftm's. There are too many cultural differences between the causes of FGM and transsexuality, which exists in all cultures.

    ReplyDelete
  64. ANON AT 2:56
    "Regardless of your desire for them to identify as female, nobody is quite sure of what that means or what it should mean to them."

    First of all one, anyone does not "identify" as FEMALE. Again, pay attention people, FEMALE is SEX. BIOLOGICAL SEX.
    XX chromosome. UNCHANGABLE.

    (rolls eyes) I mean really, how many times do we need to go over this?!

    Did you all take any form of science/biology in school?!

    When you say "identify" I think your meaning a gender. And again, if you read this blog regularly you will see that many on here do NOT believe in gender. Because gender is something that is socially constructed. And as far as we all as humans have been on this planet that social construct has been controlled by the MALE SEX.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anon, again, you are totally avoiding to comment on the fact that not all girls who transition would be considered "transsexual" by most standards, just confused. That's probably an idea that you avoid in general so you can be happy and secure in your own little trans bubble. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

    "It's exactly the FGM parallel that I feel won't work in helping vulnerable young non-gender-conforming girls. "

    Why not? It takes away womanhood in a sense, in a surgical way.

    "...these people feel they have the right to figure out their own gender, physical presentation, and identities."

    But what are they informed by? All they see are "normal" gender roles that they have to conform to. No one ever told them it's possible to be their own person and "break out of the box." No, they have to go through painful surgeries and take hormones for the rest of their lives in order to take on the male role they want so much.

    "The FGM/FTM parallel is not clear to me, and probably not to many other ftm's."

    Okay, how about breast augmentation or weight loss surgery? There would be reason to be alarmed if the same amount of girls who transition are going through all other types of surgeries to be the person they want to be. We would counsel those girls to be secure and love themselves, but there's nothing like that for FtMs (who are changing every single thing about themselves). To suggest maybe they can be happy with themselves without transitioning would be considered taboo and transphobic, so, again, there's no one at all suggesting an alternative to transitioning.

    "There are too many cultural differences between the causes of FGM and transsexuality, which exists in all cultures."


    I didn't say "transsexuality," I said "bottom surgery." That's probably why you don't get it. Transexuality is the mindset of needing to transition.

    If you want to get both technical and philosophical, there isn't much difference between FGMs and bottom surgeries. Technically, both are ways to mutilate and transform the vagina into something it was never meant to be. Neither can be reversed.

    Philosophically, men would traditionally force the FGMs on women. It makes women more desirable, girls more virginal, all the more pleasing for the patriarchy of that culture. Women are told all this, so they actually volunteer for it.

    Bottom surgery and transitioning in general satisfies our patriarchy's need for strict gender roles. If you feel weird and out of place in your own gender, it's because of those strict rules of conformity. You're told that transition would solve all of that discomfort, that you'll finally be happy in your own body. So of course, a lot of women volunteer for it.

    Like flat chested girls thinking about breast implants, it's patriarchal messages that inform transition.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Hmmm. So men created everything and therefore nothing can be trusted, including and most especially, my own thoughts about my own identity. Also, nothing new can be learned, especially in the realm of science, because current feminists already know everything there is to know. Just ask them and they'll be willing to tell you who you are. Furthermore, one must completely submit to the feminist interpretation of everything and learn how to see one's self as a victim in order to really be liberated.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Lack a convincing rebuttal? Sarcasm is definitely the way to go. You sooo do not look like an idiot right now.

    I'm done.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Actually, I think my sarcasm was a better response than an earnest one, because our views are too different. I will say that the last thing I want is for a woman to transition, regret it, and then turn around and blame someone else for her mistake.

    ReplyDelete

Copyright © The dirt from Dirt | Powered by Blogger
Design by SimpleWpThemes | Blogger Theme by NewBloggerThemes.com | Distributed By Blogger Templates20