Change Your World-NOT your Body

Sunday, February 13, 2011

Trans Regets-More Proof Trans is a Mis/Mal-Treated Mental Disorder??

The trans community is infamous for its cloak and dagger politics, especially the cloaking. The most pedestrian of studies, regardless of how unscientific, shoddy, poorly written or use of cherry picked subjects in numbers so small you could count them on both hands, if pro-trans, are shouted about from the rooftops from every major and minor trans group/sites across the globe. But the most exhaustive first person trans regret accounts made by those who realized their/the male medical machines mistakes are given the cold shoulder by a community that no longer embraces them, their stories buried or worse, they are out right attacked. For a community so "sure" about transition, why after decades is there still no room for trans critique/trans discussion, especially from those who've been there??

From Sex Change Regret

 And...









This bears repeating "GID is controversial, its effectiveness is unsubstantiated, and it has no basis in science"!

dirt

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114 comments:

  1. Everyone needs to read that site, seriously.

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  2. I have wondered SO often how much solid medical research has been done on this "treatment" (factual info, not the nonsense on fuck yeah trans sites) so this is really great info, thanks Dirt.

    Dr. Stanley Biber taught himself how to do the surgery by looking at diagrams from the failed Hopkins clinic. That says plenty about him and his early practice. It occurred to me while I read this that it's very possible that he didn't give a shit about the mental or physical health of his clients - he probably saw them as less-than and therefore, perfect subjects for experimentation and money-making. Then he trained one of the people he did surgery on, whose motivation would be to prove to the world that this was a perfectly normal type of surgery.

    This atrocity is no different than all the plastic surgeons out there making a buck on the misery of people who hate their bodies in other ways. It says a lot about western medicine that no one has stepped in and stopped all of it until real benefits can be proven.

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  3. Ray,

    Most trans minds arent strong enough for that sight. Would bring the fears they have tried to bury closer to light.

    dirt

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  4. Many trans people live normal happy lives, that should be all the proof people need.

    I would imagine there are people who were confused about what they really were, those people would have regrets, and it's a shame it was not caught until things have gone to far.

    Honestly, Trans people may face a lot of discrimination, and I guess some people would rather ignore it and not care, It happened with Gay and Lesbian rights, and is happening with Trans, In time the world will be more accepting and hopefully the same kind souls of the world will still be there to help the people of this world all be happy in the end,

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  5. It's "bears repeating", not "bares repeating", Einstein.

    Hey, what's the suicide rate for gay people?

    I guess they should also be dissuaded from pursuing a gay lifestyle. They could be saved from that awful fate! You and Reverend Phelps should really get together.

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  6. Wickedly smart Anon, gay people don't need fictional sexes, surgeries and drugs! And while there might be happy trans people around, they are happy DESPITE the fact they are trans. Body mutilation and all that. Whooops.
    I'm grateful to Walt Heyes for reporting that data. I read the site a bit after I de-intoxicated myself from the trans mind virus, and it's useful.

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  7. Thanks hun regarding the typo, but what exactly do gays and lesbian suicide rates have to do with the "trans cure"?

    dirt

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  8. I don't see it as something that needs a cure, I will be honest in that most other trans people I have met have made me uncomfortable, but I think everything should be looked at in a case by case basis.

    I do not think you are wrong in what you say, I just do not think that you are right either, but I do see your points you make here, I'm not one to really take either side, I am just one who would prefer everyone to be happy and respect each others lives.

    I am sure there that there are many trans people who have been much more happy after their treatments, and many who were not. So I do think both sides are valid.

    I have had trans thoughts as well, and really am on the fence with all this, so I don't really know exactly whats right.

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  9. Dirt,

    From what I've read, the suicide rates are even higher pre-transition, and in pre-operative transsexual people. I'd like to see good studies on that. In the meantime, the National Transgender Discrimination Survey records high suicide rates across the board. It states:

    "High risk groups include visual non-conformers (44%) and those who are generally out about their transgender status (44%). Those who have medically transitioned (45%) and surgically transitioned (43%) have higher rates of attempted suicide than those who have not (34% and 39% respectively)."

    Looking through the study, social situations, including physical and sexual assault (61% and 64%), homelessness (68%), being driven into prostitution (60%), and so on, seem to have more effect than medical treatments. There needs to be some way to separate the two to figure out whether surgery helps anyone. It's clear that cross-dressers have high suicide rates, though not as high (21%), and they don't face the body issues, medical issues etc. that transsexual people do.

    In the meantime, I'm continuing to take estrogen, while working on trying to be happy in my body w/o surgery.

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  10. Here's a good article by a transsexual that shows a combination of talk therapy focused on gender stereotyping along with pharmaceutical treatment of OCD and depression is effective in treating GID.

    http://www.chrisspagani.com/gender/index10.html

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  11. the one thing trans people cannot surgically alter is that horrible chip on their shoulder.

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  12. All groups of people have members like that Annon. Just have to ignore the ignorant one's and listen to those who speak with caring and good intentions.

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  13. One of my ex transboyfriend, told me a "guy" at his support group committed suicide after having fully transitioned (top and bottom surgery). My boyfriend told me this person went for the changes very quickly in 2 years time (going for the surgeries was easy as he has nothing to pay: we live in a modern democratic country that cares for its citizen health. Doctors apply stricly the H. Benjamin standard of care). But one year after his transition, he committed suicide saying "transition has not solved his issues" in a letter.
    I know a lot of trans people want to have very fast transition when they discover "the trans world" but my ex FTM boyfriend told me he prefered to transition on a 10 years time (from his 18's to 28's) to have first a 5 years behavioral therapy to understand what was going on there...

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  14. "From what I've read, the suicide rates are even higher pre-transition"

    The fact that the suicide rate is higher does not give credibility to transition as a solution...

    It just shows that "transition candidate" have apparently mental issues or personal difficulties that are so important they should be cured before they consider any major changes in their life because those person don't have obviously a solid ground or foundation to enter into a transition.

    I am always surprised to see on YouTubes or on the web, all those kids who have drugs addiction, a depression, narcissistic personality disorder, schizophrenia, eating disorder or simply the usual young adult/teenager questioning (and our world is not sweet for young people) and who are allowed to go for transition...

    Doctors do not play their roles of guardians...
    How can you advise someone to transition with those kind of problems?
    In summary: how can you allow for transitioning, people who have issues that would justify to see a shrink 3 times/week? Just because your friend the plastic surgeon needs his money or you are just coming back from a nice trip offered by an hormon manufacturer...
    Is there at least one doctor in America with integrity or have they all corrupted by money?

    And where are the parents?
    Are they too busy to even think taking care of their kids?
    Or are they too friends with their kids that they fear even contradicting them?

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  15. In my opinion, if there is any truth to what trans people say about their actions, they have yet to find the right words to say it. All the excuses I've heard thuse far only further discredit their claim.

    And if you link me to a bunch of random, uncredible and biased websites found on google in two minutes, that's not going to suffice.

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  16. This is exactly why transition should not be taken lightly. While I currently believe it's completely necessary for some, it definitely isn't for all, and it's not a be all-end all solution to to all your socially constructed gender related problems.

    Transition is the goal of recreating the outside to more resemble the inside, though reminding trans folks that they will never biologically be their desired sex is kind of kicking them while they're already on the ground. IMHO.

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  17. maybe they should stop fearing the truth? that's their own fault. you can GET HELP.

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  18. [Here's a good article by a transsexual that shows a combination of talk therapy focused on gender stereotyping along with pharmaceutical treatment of OCD and depression is effective in treating GID.]

    Good? There is far more proof behind transsexuality as a brain condition than there is for mental disorders being real or a result of 'brain chemistry'.

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  19. Transition is offering a solution to neurosis by making FTM think they don't have issues, it is their body who has issues.
    So once transition (and its secured smooth predicatable process) is in mind, they think it is the solution.

    During the transition process everytime they change a body issue (boobs, hair...), they feel better(because of the neurotic transfert) and so transition gives them a temporary relief....

    Once the transition is completed to the maximum financial capabiliy of the person (top surgery or bottom surgery), the effects of the neurosis transfer fade away.

    And the person face again the same issues she has not solved/was not cured before her transition.
    But, most of the time, the entourage is less supportive or present to help her because they have already gone through the transition by proxy, it was draining for them too, and so all they want to hear from the new fTM is "I am happy". The entourage does not understand why they still have to support the person while the transition is over and the person should be happy.

    It is usually in those post-transition moments of loneliness that FTM commits suicide...

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  20. Look, fucking about with your looks doesn't solve your problems. It may even make them worse. Nobody who does this does this to solve their problems, and only the truly clueless think it is the answer to their issues. There is no good reason that happy, well-adjusted adult people should not be allowed to transition if they were born that way and nothing else has worked for them.

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  21. "There is no good reason that happy, well-adjusted adult people should not be allowed to transition if they were born that way and nothing else has worked for them."

    Totally agree and nowadays a lot of kids go for transition as a magic cure to all their issues whereas a good old therapy would have worked like a charm in most of the cases.

    As a result, a lot of people go for transition while transition is not for them.
    When those people and their family will join the first class action against trans surgeon and doctors, the whole trans community would be in trouble...

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  22. I want the transpeople pushing their "Get your sex reassigned, get better!" agenda to feel the weight of the corpses they are responsible for.

    PS.: The research does not debunk the fact that transpeople are discriminated against it debunks the long- and dearly-held myth that transitioning will solve a transsexual's psychological and emotional problems. Therefore comparisons with gay people are useless and don't make any sense.

    "No amount of surgery, hormone injection or anything else can, or will, change the birth gender DNA. It is absolute."

    OMIGAWD, who would have thought!

    I still don't get how Money thought sex reassignment surgery was the way to go when he actually thought that gender is learned? Or perhaps he thought that the learned gender roles were good and that every transgression should be met with sex reassignment?

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  23. Becoming a masculinised version of yourself will never cure you from the inside.
    I was born with hirsustism, was passing as a male most of the time during my teenagehood, has to telle everytime "no I am a woman", and had to go for laser to remove body and facial hair for 5 years and finally look like a female...

    Have I tought it makes me feel different to be perceived as female at the first sight? No! has this transition cure other issues I may have? No!

    But a therapy did...

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  24. [I want the transpeople pushing their "Get your sex reassigned, get better!" agenda to feel the weight of the corpses they are responsible for.]

    I feel no such thing. You can deal with the consequences of constantly trying to debunk transsexuality as a birth condition. You and other people like you have made it this accessible to everybody in the first place.

    [PS.: The research does not debunk the fact that transpeople are discriminated against it debunks the long- and dearly-held myth that transitioning will solve a transsexual's psychological and emotional problems.]

    Of course it does no such thing. I haven't seen many of us insisting that such an occurrence happens. Though it can make you happier with your life if this is who you are, and that can help you work through emotional and mental problems in a far more efficient manner.

    [OMIGAWD, who would have thought!]

    It isn't 'birth gender DNA', it is chromosomes. Who in the world has ever said otherwise? Unless you administer karyotype testing to every person you meet, does it even matter in the first place?

    [I still don't get how Money thought sex reassignment surgery was the way to go when he actually thought that gender is learned?]

    You might find this helpful: http://ts-si.org/horizons/1407-background-on-dr-john-money

    Particularly:
    "The behavioral psychologists and medical personnel at Hopkins viewed sex change as the last resort for individuals with incurable emotional disturbances."

    [Or perhaps he thought that the learned gender roles were good and that every transgression should be met with sex reassignment?]

    That is the far more likely scenario there. You have to remember that back in the day, transsexuals had to meet very stringent standards of gender role adherence to even have a chance at transitioning. Even today, therapists are still looking for feminine and masculine behavior.

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  25. Transition is sexual fetichism and shoild be cured as is.

    Some trans FTM transition because they want to be fucked as males by bio-males and not as women.

    Some others partially transition because they get excited at the idea of being fucked with a upper male body and appearance but with double hole and will never go for any bottom surgeries.

    This is just my experience of having (not so) "casual" sex with FTM.

    So transition those days encompass more than a desire to live a day to day life as male...

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  26. I feel horrible for these trans people living in endless misery.

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  27. [Transition is sexual fetichism and shoild be cured as is.]

    Could imagine it is for some, given how easily they are passing it through these days.

    [I feel horrible for these trans people living in endless misery.]

    You make it sound like all of us are.

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  28. anon @ 7:30

    you're a transwoman, aren't you?

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  29. [you're a transwoman, aren't you?]

    Sure thing... and?

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  30. so easy to spot, even over the internet!

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  31. [so easy to spot, even over the internet!]

    It's not like I was making any attempt whatsoever to hide that fact. Keep it up, though... I am sure you will make Chief of Detectives in no time at this rate.

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  32. how far into transition are you? you haven't yet lost your stereotypically male speaking habits and writing tone.

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  33. Is it diagnosed as GID to transition in order to look like anime or yaoi manga characters?

    In this case it is more a FTC transition (a Female To Comics transition) or a FTV (Female to Virtuality transition) not a FTM transition because the targeted body does not exist in reality...

    So what do you think guys?

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  34. [how far into transition are you? you haven't yet lost your stereotypically male speaking habits and writing tone.]

    Not far enough. I can accept the possibility of speaking differently, but saying that men type a certain way in comparison to women is silly pop science and nothing more. I do not give any bit of a care about the gender that you feel like holding me to. Some of us grew out of that a while ago.

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  35. I feel no such thing. You can deal with the consequences of constantly trying to debunk transsexuality as a birth condition. You and other people like you have made it this accessible to everybody in the first place.

    LOL. I wasn't the one who made transitioning accessible to people. That was John Money, obviously, and a lot of psychiatrists not being able to let go of their deterministic approach.
    Seriously, you want to imply that only because I believe that gender roles are learned that I agree with Money? Guilty by association? Yeah, pull out some other trick to guilt-trip me into compliance.

    Debunking transsexuality as a birth condition will not lead to any consequences for me. Gee, what should happen? I'm not transsexual, I don't understand what the shape of my primary sex organs has to do with my intrinsic well-being and biological determinism is a load of bullshit anyway. Of course, some of you have to believe in it despite all evidence that there is greater overlap between the sexes than there are differences and that no one has proven a direct link between brain structure and behaviour (The latter is impossible to prove with the current scientific methods).

    It isn't 'birth gender DNA', it is chromosomes. Who in the world has ever said otherwise? Unless you administer karyotype testing to every person you meet, does it even matter in the first place?

    You do know that chromosomes don't exist outside of the DNA, do you?

    It does because your biology makes you disproportionally likely to experience certain events. Little things like pregnancy, rape, discrimination, genocide. Your sex well be assigned according to the appearance of your outer genitals. For the vast majority, the sex assignment will be correct because intersex is a rare condition (mainly since the foeti are disproportionately likely to suffer under severe mental and physiological damages and are aborted prematurely in a very high number of cases).

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  36. It wasn't John Money who was the founding father of Western transsexuality.

    If you believe gender is learned, you do agree with John Money.

    Debunking transsexuality as a birth condition makes for more pseudo-transsexual transgender kids, obviously. Because if you continue to assert that we are not born this way, you are saying anybody can do it by proxy.

    [Of course, some of you have to believe in it despite all evidence that there is greater overlap between the sexes than there are differences and that no one has...]

    Of course there is. Where did you think intersex and transsexual people came from?

    [...proven a direct link between brain structure and behaviour (The latter is impossible to prove with the current scientific methods).]

    So why do you assert things that you cannot prove, in the face of every bit of scientific evidence pointing to the contrary? Yeah, that's a logical position...

    [You do know that chromosomes don't exist outside of the DNA, do you?]

    Yes, but we are talking specific identification.

    Even chromosomes are not reliable, if you know anything about biology. XX does not definitively equal a female any more than XY definitively equals a man. Generally yes, definitively no.

    [For the vast majority, the sex assignment will be correct because intersex is a rare condition...]

    Funny, because I recall seeing that the rate of intersex people is about 1 in 20 or so. That is rare?

    I will also point out that there is no knowing about the rarity of genital intersex occurrence, because doctors are still practicing silent corrective surgery behind closed doors.

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  37. kurukurushoujo, One in 2000 is intersex, it's not as rare as you think.

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  38. Anon 8:03, you refer to a hardcore version of cosplay where female not only wear costumes and modify their body in order to to represent a specific character...
    Cosplay even in its hardcore form (T shot, boobs removal...) is not a Female to Male transition, it is cosplay. Do not insult our sub-culture.

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  39. John Money....what a deliciously perfect last name.

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  40. Cosplayer "fake" GID symptoms in order to get surgeries and T, it has nothing to do with having a GID. They are just opportunistic and in some countries, "faking" GID symptoms means all the costs will be covered by NHS.

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  41. Just admit you'd rather be a dude. Move on.

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  42. GID is more than controversial. It is bogus. WPATH said as much when in May 2010 it called for de-psychopathologisation.

    See
    http://www.wpath.org/documents/de-psychopathologisation%205-26-10%20on%20letterhead.pdf

    Hall

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  43. @Anon February 14, 2011 9:15 AM



    "Debunking transsexuality as a birth condition makes for more pseudo-transsexual transgender kids, obviously. Because if you continue to assert that we are not born this way, you are saying anybody can do it by proxy."

    Ummm, no I don't think so. The main justification for taking "t" and engaging the medical profession to realize "your true authetic self" is that this is a physical condition that any amount of "talk" therapy will not help. Once the "birth condition" theory is debunked, support from the medical community will evaporate.

    Another interesting thing to note, is that as vigorous arguements are presented to trans advocates, they seem to resort to quasi threats to make their arguement and the structure of the arguement is usually phrased in this way: "If you don't support us, then it will be bad for you". If transsexuality is a bona fide medical condition, then arguements should be presented on their own merits and not couched in the form of threats.
    Examples on this site alone:

    1)"If you don't support the idea that transsexuality is inborn you will get more of us"

    2)"Lesbians need to support transsexuals because they(lesbians) cannot afford to lose allies"

    3)"You need to support transsexuals in their position that transexuality is caused by physical differences, because if you don't, then others will make the arguement that homosexuality does not have a physical base(the word fake was used)"

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  44. @Anon February 14, 2011 1:48 PM
    The full article quoted
    "The World Professional Association for Transgender Health has prepared and released a statement urging the de-psychopathologisation of gender variance worldwide. The statement is as follows: The WPATH Board of Directors strongly urges the de-psychopathologisation of gender variance worldwide. The expression of gender characteristics, including identities, that are not stereotypically associated with one’s assigned sex at birth is a common and culturally-diverse human phenomenon which should not be judged as inherently pathological or negative. The psychopathologlisation of gender characteristics and identities reinforces or can prompt stigma, making prejudice and discrimination more likely, rendering transgender and transsexual people more vulnerable to social and legal marginalisation and exclusion, and increasing risks to mental and physical well-being. WPATH urges governmental and medical professional organizations to review their policies and practices to eliminate stigma toward gender-variant people.”

    You would think that the "The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, Inc" might twig on to the fact that advocating the removal of body parts and the ingestion of powerful hormones to facilitate the norming of "gender varients" might be "pathologizing" in of itself.

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  45. If you believe gender is learned, you do agree with John Money.

    Did I say anything different? I am not as close-minded as to think that one agreement with a person means perpetual and never-ending agreement with this same person concerning every topic imaginable. It is also possible to agree in one aspect and then come to different conclusions. Still not guilty by association.

    Debunking transsexuality as a birth condition makes for more pseudo-transsexual transgender kids, obviously. Because if you continue to assert that we are not born this way, you are saying anybody can do it by proxy.

    You wouldn't feel the need to take hormones and undergo surgery if you believed in learned gendered behaviour. Those so-called pseudo-transsexuals (I'll go with the possibility that something like this actually exists) are the result of a belief in inherent gender roles, i.e. that behaviour is connected to one of the two sexes. I mean seriously, now. Nobody undertakes difficult and permanently body-altering surgery for shits and giggles- if you can act how you want to regardless of your sex surgery becomes meaningless and useless, you would also be able to accept that sex-specific biological functions are value-neutral and experienced subjectively when devoid of any socially ascribed meaning. If you believe in people doing surgery willy-nilly, you should go and ask some of the people who do extreme body modifications- they usually have pretty good reasons to cut of their dicks or split them in half. (Reasons that can be rationally understood to be logical in the mind of the person who does the body mod.) They don't wake up one day and go: „I feel like splitting my dig in half! Golly gee, I will just do it now, yippee!“ Nope, doesn't work like that.

    Also, choice is a pretty complicated concept. You never are completely informed, options are overladden with societal prescriptions and taboos, you can never know what is inherently yours and what is learned. You underestimate the importance of socialization- as a child you are so completely dependent on your parents that you might rebel, yes, but never outright reject them completely. You will try to please them by conforming to their demands, you will learn what they teach you. This can interact with genetic predispositions, however, the extent to which genetics are involved is unknown. There often might not be any gentic influence at all. That there are social influences is pretty unequivocally accepted though.

    Where did you think intersex and transsexual people came from?

    Conflating trans- with intersex is wrong. Intersex people have alternative compositions of sex chromosomes. Transsexuals don't, otherwise you would not want to transition, you would want to get your physiology re-aligned with the sex that is most prominent physiologically. That intersexuals are unequivocally biologically determined in their condition cannot be questioned, that transpeople are likewise a result of biological determination cannot be proven. You would have to prove: which genes on the sex chromosomes lead to an opposite-sex brain, are there significant chromosomal differences between trans and non-trans people, does an "opposite-sex" brain correlate significantly with transsexuality? Just for starters. The last point is incredibly important. If you can prove that an opposite-sex brain doesn't correlate with transsexuality in a significant way, biological determinism will be finished once and for all.

    So why do you assert things that you cannot prove, in the face of every bit of scientific evidence pointing to the contrary? Yeah, that's a logical position...

    Wait, there is evidence that brain structures directly cause certain behaviours? Amuse me and show me some science. And I don't want any correlative outcomes either. I want causation.

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  46. I also didn't assert things I cannot prove. There IS siginificant and unquestionably large overlap between male and female DESPITE different hormone levels and sex chromosomes.

    Even chromosomes are not reliable, if you know anything about biology. XX does not definitively equal a female any more than XY definitively equals a man. Generally yes, definitively no.

    How is it possible for a male with an XX constellation to exist if he is lacking the chromosome that triggers the development of his penis?

    Funny, because I recall seeing that the rate of intersex people is about 1 in 20 or so. That is rare?

    It's 1 in 1666 (http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency). If I calculate 1 in 2000 that would be 0,2%. That's pretty goddamn rare. According to that page „corrective“ procedures are done once or twice per 1000 births keeping in mind that not only intersex individuals will be „corrected“. With the knowledge that in 1 in 100 births there are deviations from the standard male/female you can calculate the probability of getting „corrective“ treatment when intersex/XX,XY if you assume that every deviant will be mutilated with a chance of 100%/50%/25% etc and that every intersex person's deviation is instantly visible. Ehh, I don't want to do this right now, perhaps tomorrow.

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  47. Injecting drugs and cutting yourself to show your "real self" sounds like a contradiction to me. That's really the main objection I have personally.
    Transhumanism is bullshit.

    And the question "Do you feel female (or male)?"....I can't even begin to make sense of it now. There's no way to "feel" either.

    And yes, KuruKuru is right that the trans cult, supported by psychiatry, is overwhelmingly guilty of "suicides" (self-murder due to cult ideals). And all the silencing, guilt-tripping, patronizing, aggressive nonsensical behaviour seen on the trans side is proof of how desperate cultists can get to defend their beliefs.

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  48. [Once the "birth condition" theory is debunked, support from the medical community will evaporate.]

    Keep wishing on lucky stars, Canadian. That's not the way that thousands of years of our cross-cultural existence and modern evidence have been pointing.

    Of course GID is bogus, because it was made up like every other 'mental illness' in the first place! Transsexuals are not mentally ill, we have a birth condition. Don't worry, you'll get over the fact that you will never be able to disprove that until such a time that it is proven.

    So then what happens, now that the MRI information may lead to conclusive evidence of what we're saying? Do we receive apologies from each of you the moment it is shown to be a birth condition (as Milton Diamond has been saying for years and years now)? Can we expect acceptance at that point after those thousands of years, or just the same narrow-minded bigotry?

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  49. @ bluestraveler:

    Are you suggesting that transfolks are guilty of their own individual suicides, or are you suggesting that transfolks are collectively guilty of other people's suicides?

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  50. [How is it possible for a male with an XX constellation to exist if he is lacking the chromosome that triggers the development of his penis?]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

    People with Klinefelter syndrome have two or more X chromosomes as well, only with a Y in the equation.

    That transsexual thing seems all the more believable with the more you know about how flexible nature is, doesn't it? I mean, just reading XX male syndrome, it isn't all that hard to believe at all.

    I no longer question why nature made me this way. My only regret is that I never voiced this situation any sooner, to possibly head off puberty before it happened.

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  51. "And the question "Do you feel female (or male)?"....I can't even begin to make sense of it now. There's no way to "feel" either."

    I am not totally convinced of this at all, and I feel that you might be projecting your own experience of not feeling either. Which is totally fine and I support that id. But I don't think you should speak for women who do say they feel like women and CAN describe that feeling. I would personally not question them, because I actually haven't lived that. It's impossible to argue with.
    Now, if you want to talk about semantics, then that's a different battle.

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  52. "Keep wishing on lucky stars, Canadian. That's not the way that thousands of years of our cross-cultural existence and modern evidence have been pointing."

    Thousands of years of cross cultural existance has shown that men and women share traits that have been arbitrarily deemed either masculine or feminine. People who dare express the whole of their being are socially, politically and economically punished. It does not point to transsexualism because of "faulty brain wiring"

    The "modern evidence" you cite is based on studies with sample sizes of less then 10, overlapping data with these small sample sizes and contracting evidence and conclusions in these studies.

    If GID is a mental disorder then why does the trans community advocate the alteration of peoples bodies and the ingesting of powerful hormones. GID is a term created by your community and your advocates in the medical community, take it up with them.

    Once proper samples sizes are used in testing, we shall see what is uncovered. I suspect as well, that these procedures will stop and the medical community will move on to something else and pretend this did not happen, of course not forgetting to expunge the DSM on their way out.

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  53. "That transsexual thing seems all the more believable with the more you know about how flexible nature is, doesn't it? I mean, just reading XX male syndrome, it isn't all that hard to believe at all."

    There's a huge difference between having a mixture of male/female biological traits (i.e. genitals, gonads, chromosomes) and being 100% female/male while insisting that you're really male/female.

    Quit using intersex people as a red herring.

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  54. [Thousands of years of cross cultural existance has shown that men and women share traits that have been arbitrarily deemed either masculine or feminine.]

    What you really mean is, "lived as the opposite binary sex would in each culture and society." My, that sounds like transsexuality.

    [It does not point to transsexualism because of "faulty brain wiring"]

    Our status is the result of natural biological variance. You believe wholeheartedly in intersex and stop short of what they teach us is the most important organ in sexual identification (the brain) for transsexuals. Then you want to tell me about faulty brain wiring? I would say you live in a fantasy world where you have learned nothing from intersex people.

    [If GID is a mental disorder then why does the trans community advocate the alteration of peoples bodies and the ingesting of powerful hormones.]

    It is not a mental disorder and never was. You need to understand that the trans community (more appropriately titled the transgender community) is more concerned with looks than actions. It does not mean that those who consider themselves transsexuals necessarily share their ideology.

    [GID is a term created by your community and your advocates in the medical community, take it up with them.]

    The trans community had nothing to do with the creation of GID (nor did the medical community, for that matter). Sorry to burst your bubble, but the psych establishment can take full credit for that one.

    [Once proper samples sizes are used in testing, we shall see what is uncovered. I suspect as well, that these procedures will stop and the medical community will move on to something else and pretend this did not happen, of course not forgetting to expunge the DSM on their way out.]

    I welcome your 'proper sample testing' and suspect you are more full of shit than even we know. I would bother to tell you that I know you are for a fact, but you would only disbelieve the similarly described, shared experiences of numerous people around the world. Never mind the cultures that have roles for those who are born transsexual, roles that have often been around for hundreds -- if not thousands -- of years.

    ReplyDelete
  55. No, GID is not inherently not-disprovable, GID is inherently bullshit. Sex hormones can probably influence our brain, either before birth or even afterwards ; maybe my brain really was influenced by T, who knows? Maybe that really nurturing guy over there really has an "estrogenated" brain.

    But...SO WHAT? Do you need to inject hormones and mutilate your body to prove that point, that you can have a STATISTICALLY "male" mind in a female body or vice-versa (emphasis on statistically, there are NO ABSOLUTES)? Do you insist your dysphoria is due to your "mismatched" brain while the brain (and the body) are perfectly fine but society is not? Do you "feel" "MALE" or "FEMALE" when such feelings can't exist, because you can't "feel" anything else than whole (and do you feel "leg" or "kidney" for that matter)? Do you need to constantly bring the poor intersex into debate? Do you need to censor and silence others who don't agree with you? Do you need to hide the suicides the trans cult (in last analysis, psychiatry) is responsible for?

    I don't VALIDATE ANY FICTIONAL IDENTITY in ANY BODY, wheter "male", "female", "fox" or "Na'vi". I only recognize OBJECTIVE REALITY.

    ReplyDelete
  56. And about "transsexuality" in history: several cultures had "transgender" people (such as Dirt would be labeled nowadays! Which is bullshit, Dirt is a woman), some had castrated men, NONE had transsexuals. Societies DON'T EXIST IN A VACUUM EITHER. STOP COMPARING THEM TO OUR PRESENT TIME.

    ReplyDelete
  57. [There's a huge difference between having a mixture of male/female biological traits (i.e. genitals, gonads, chromosomes) and being 100% female/male while insisting that you're really male/female.]

    That's because we are not '100%' male or female either, and I seriously question if there ever was such a thing. Especially given that the male and female systems are very similar outside of the sexually dimorphic areas.

    Have yourself a look at all of the women with PCOS, for instance. Guess you didn't stop to consider that male hormones would make them less than 100%, did you? Somehow I bet it is different to you that they take hormones, in comparison to the fact that I do.

    [Quit using intersex people as a red herring.]

    Not my fault that you cannot see that proof of transsexual people being able to exist was in front of you in the form of intersex people all this time. Take your house of cards logic and preach it at somebody who is buying into the misinformation you are peddling.

    ReplyDelete
  58. [And about "transsexuality" in history: several cultures had "transgender" people (such as Dirt would be labeled nowadays! Which is bullshit, Dirt is a woman), some had castrated men, NONE had transsexuals. Societies DON'T EXIST IN A VACUUM EITHER. STOP COMPARING THEM TO OUR PRESENT TIME.]

    Yeah, because living as another sex would is so transgender. Get over yourself, Bluetraveler. What you believe is not real, has never been real, and WILL NEVER BE REAL.

    Quit telling it to other people as if your opinions are facts. If the other topic was indication, even your side has had more than enough of your pseudo-intellectual raving.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  59. and of course the transwoman is trying to dominate this comment section. some things never change LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  60. [and of course the transwoman is trying to dominate this comment section. some things never change LOL.]

    I am sure there are legions of women who would disagree with you about men being the 'dominating' sex, to say the least. Such viewpoints are asinine at best.

    ReplyDelete
  61. anon @ 7:08

    it's more about space invasion, but whatever.

    ReplyDelete
  62. "Transition is offering a solution to neurosis by making FTM think they don't have issues, it is their body who has issues.
    So once transition (and its secured smooth predicatable process) is in mind, they think it is the solution.

    During the transition process everytime they change a body issue (boobs, hair...), they feel better(because of the neurotic transfert) and so transition gives them a temporary relief....

    Once the transition is completed to the maximum financial capabiliy of the person (top surgery or bottom surgery), the effects of the neurosis transfer fade away.

    And the person face again the same issues she has not solved/was not cured before her transition.
    But, most of the time, the entourage is less supportive or present to help her because they have already gone through the transition by proxy, it was draining for them too, and so all they want to hear from the new fTM is "I am happy". The entourage does not understand why they still have to support the person while the transition is over and the person should be happy.

    It is usually in those post-transition moments of loneliness that FTM commits suicide..."

    MTF exist, somebody wouldnt know that would they. They have a personal vendetta against FTMs and are bitter that they are "forsaking your gender".

    When you want to talk about transexual people at least do it exclusively, to hide your personal hatred and bias against FTMs. FTMs seem to rub a lot of women on here the wrong way, why its nothing but bitterness and hatred for your own bodies. instead of dealing with it take it on somebody right. Deep down you know this is what this is about,your own issues are the driving force of this FTM crazed hatred. Enjoy your bitterness.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I have something to point out.

    You have so many non-successful/ regret transitioning stories...but what about the ones who ARE successful and happy with their choice?

    It's like using (the age old) abortion theme. Some women will regret having an abortion later in their lives, some will not. How come you don't post their pictures, links and publicly announce their "wrong" doing?

    Do you realize what you could be doing? That your can spread an negative aggressive behavioral approach (someone being beneficial in achieving her/his goals due to an aggressive approach to prove it justified, thus others may see more intense aggressive behaviors justified) to transgendered people?

    Just a thought.

    To others. Do you truly think about what impact you have when you say "should not be allowed to transition"? It's a free world (well, in democracies). YOU have no right to deny ANYONE what they want if it only affect themselves. If someone wants an artificial penis or to take away their breasts- or vice versa-, that is there choice and as a fellow human being should at least understand that it is their choice. You don't have to support it, but that does not mean you have to be aggressively negative about it.

    Yes, many young people are doing transitioning to "solve" their problems- and a few times it does not. Transitioning is a permanent thing and thus THEY should be concerned enough to thoroughly research the effects and what would happen if they regret it.

    However, criticizing choices made by others -that does not affect you in a harmful way- is not the best path to take. How would you like it if someone criticized and claimed to know the best for you for a big decision you are planning or making?

    Yes, in a way I am criticizing you. For that I give my apologies, but I just want to get my point across. Let people make their choices in peace, just like how you would want to make your own choices.

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  64. @Bluetraveler

    Wickedly smart Anon, gay people don't need fictional sexes, surgeries and drugs!"

    What would you know about gay people.. You are not gay. And your reasons for not transitioning may not be another persons reason for their decision.

    I also notice in some of your posts you talk about trans suicides.
    NEWSFLASH: Gays and Lesbians commit suicide as well..

    I still think you like to hear yourself talk..

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  65. Unless you are living in a cave somewhere, its common sense gays and lesbians require no drugs or mutilative surgeries to be attracted to same sex lovers. One doesnt have to be gay or lesbian to know this. Not like its a secret.

    dirt

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  66. It takes me 5 minutes a week to have an injection of testosterone. My health-mental and physical, is still perfect after 10 years.

    My chest surgery cost less than your car did and I asked for no donations for that. I don't have any scars at all because of the procedure I had.

    I'm happy, but not because of transition alone. I'm happy as a human and I don't think I would be if I hadn't transitioned.
    Why can't you people just accept that there are so many happy transpeople out there? I think some of you have spent more energy on this blog than some of do transitioning. Get a life! Be whatever you are but be happy with it!

    ReplyDelete
  67. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/01/26/scans-show-difference-in-transgender-brains/

    ReplyDelete
  68. Before I went on T, my blood pressure was really high, was diagnosed with pre-diabetes, and sleep apnea. Since being on T since July 13, 2009 blood pressure has gone back to normal and my blood sugar is at a normal range and I have no need for medication for either one. My sleep apnea is also gone and I have no need for a CPAP machine anymore.

    I have no regrets since going on testosterone. Not one regret at all. I won't have any regrets after I have my top surgery either. The scars? Well, there are really good scar creams out there. I am gonna by mine straight from the plastic surgeon who will be doing my top surgery in which I will reveal his name due to idiots e-mailing him and talking all kinds of crap to him and what not.
    Even if my scars do not go all the way away I will not be ashamed of myself or my scars. It will just show how far I have come in my transition. I will celebrate every year of my top surgery date just as I do with my first testosterone shot date. Year 2 will be July 13, 2011.

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  69. As an outsider to both your communities, I think it is absolutely abhorrent that images of pre-op FTMs were posted on the internet and yet the person responsible ( obviously a latent FTM "herself" who has been refused treatment) who claims to be a woman remains anonymous. Cowardly is an understatement.
    What a truly horrible obnoxious person you are, you are flattering yourself by calling yourself a woman.

    ReplyDelete
  70. thanks for sharing that Brandon im sure dirt will pick apart at it, same as blutraveller, i mean these women have nothing else to do.... but there is your scientific evidence so yes ftm are 'male braind'

    ReplyDelete
  71. @ anon 12:48 AM

    "thanks for sharing that Brandon im sure dirt will pick apart at it, same as blutraveller, i mean these women have nothing else to do.... but there is your scientific evidence so yes ftm are 'male braind'"

    Yes Dirt will pick it apart OR ignore it. I find it interesting the findings which support Trans people are either dismissed or picked apart, but things that are written negative towards transitioning are considered PROOF by Bluewater and Dirt.. Of course anyone who believes the proof is in the pudding could not be taken too seriously. :D

    ReplyDelete
  72. @ anon 1:22 AM

    to be honest i read this blog for reasons that dont need to be explained but, i think any one who goes to the extent to "prove" that trans people dont know how there own lives should be, i think they have the problem, but what ever anything that is showen to support trans people in any way is just attacked or in this blogs case is deleted by dirt, meh what ever... i also would like to know who has time to find all the shit these people do as i do research on trans related issues and half the stuff these women come up with has me shocked...

    ReplyDelete
  73. Not on topic exactly, but a question that just hit me.

    I've seen many references over time on many replies on this blog, that tax payers and insurance companies are paying for these surgeries.

    Does anyone have a link to any type of study/report that lists this information?

    The reason I ask is that I know the top portion of the surgery is considered Plastic Surgery, and I know my insurance company does not pay for plastic surgeries.

    We had a lady here at work that had a double mastectomy, and had kicked around getting implants, and the insurance company would not pay for it because there are other means of post op therapy for breast cancer patients such as prosthetics.

    Also, my Dad is on Medicare, and they did not want to pay for some surgery he had to remove skin from his forehead so he could see properly. They said it was not covered and considered elective if it was performed by a plastic surgeon, but would be covered if an Optometric surgeon performed it.

    So, I just wondered which companies had policies to pay for plastic surgery, as from my limited knowledge they don't. However, posters here comment on it rather regularly as a point of contention.

    ReplyDelete
  74. "So, I just wondered which companies had policies to pay for plastic surgery,"

    This blog is read by a lot of European FTM and in Finland, France, UK, Sweden, Norway and Germany up to 100% of some of the surgeries at covered.
    The top surgery in Finland is only 100 euro (you pay the 3 nights of accommodation at the hospital and that is all).
    Of course, testo and the nurse to do the shot are free...Also the therapist you see...

    It is usually free for citizen or permanent residents (including students) so I really advise you to do your transition abroad even if you are a US citizen. As the studies are also very cheap (university is at 200 €/year of tuition fees in France for example), it can be a good way to combine studies+transition.

    For example, Warren (http://www.youtube.com/user/sillyyetsuccinct) is american but he started his transition first in Denmark and then he will do his surgeries (top and meta) in Sweden where he studies there as a postgrad.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anon@7:24am

    There are too many issues effecting solid studies on medical insurance and trans surgeries. Doctors who are pro trans surgeries (pro adding some serious coin to their pockets) can word things so insurances cover the surgeries.

    And in countries who have some form of NHS, I havent seen any studies done.

    As these are all cosmetic surgeries, no one but the patient should be footing the bill, not insurance companies, tax payer dollars or student loans.

    dirt

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  76. If you actually haven't catched on:

    I don't deny the possibility there might be (statistically) "male" or "female" brains (in whatever bodies. And those studies have loads of problems in themselves, but that's a separate issue).

    What I absolutely can't accept is the bogus concept of "gender / sex identity".

    Jeez, reading comprehension=0

    ReplyDelete
  77. "And in countries who have some form of NHS, I havent seen any studies done. "

    You have the transgender EU study which is quite comprehensive and compare the way transgender benefit from "nhs" coverage in European countries.

    Just download it there:
    http://www.tgeu.org/sites/default/files/eurostudy.pdf

    I confirm that in some EU countries, the way the surgery is constant through the countries as it is decided by state policy.

    So in UK, Finland, France, Denmark, Germany...a person who is doing a transition in the official national system there will be 100% covered.
    There is no exception of any sort: it is free.
    Surgeries abroad are not covered by the national system.

    ReplyDelete
  78. "i also would like to know who has time to find all the shit..."

    I have a hunch your tax dollars are paying for their research... SSI/SSD hard at work.. Or else some company is getting ripped off by their employees staying online all the time.. Suspect the first tho. Not to say they do or don't need the SSD/SSI, but who else has that kind of time on their hands?

    ReplyDelete
  79. "I have a hunch your tax dollars are paying for their research... SSI/SSD hard at work.."

    It never crossed your american centric mind that some people around the world read & comment this blog off work hours just because they belong to another timezone?

    ReplyDelete
  80. "That's because we are not '100%' male or female either, and I seriously question if there ever was such a thing. Especially given that the male and female systems are very similar outside of the sexually dimorphic areas."

    Of course they're similar outside of the dimorphic areas. When I talk about female/male/intersex, I'm referring to actual sex organs like genitals and gonads. Females and males overlap heavily when it comes to non-sexual organs? No shit.

    That doesn't mean that a person with a uterus, ovaries, vagina, cervix, and clitoris isn't completely female just because her lungs/stomach/whatever are indistinguishable from a man's.

    ReplyDelete
  81. @ Anon 8:53 am:

    "I have a hunch your tax dollars are paying for their research... SSI/SSD hard at work.. Or else some company is getting ripped off by their employees staying online all the time.. Suspect the first tho. Not to say they do or don't need the SSD/SSI, but who else has that kind of time on their hands?"

    What a shitty thing to say! That's like saying its ok for people to be gay, just don't "flaunt" it. You can't both say you're fine with people who collect SSI/SSDI and then take a cheap shot at them about how they spend their time. I mean, why even bring it up?

    ReplyDelete
  82. "What a shitty thing to say! That's like saying its ok for people to be gay, just don't "flaunt" it. You can't both say you're fine with people who collect SSI/SSDI and then take a cheap shot at them about how they spend their time. I mean, why even bring it up?"

    Now wait a minute here.. Plenty has been said about tax dollars and insurance and donations paying for transition. Plenty has been said about trans people taking advantage of the system.

    I disagree with people sitting around on disability when they clearly have computer skills they could be using to be self supportive. Hence.. I repeat myself.. My hunch is either some employer is paying somebody a salary to do their job and instead they are using their time online researching young ftm's.. OR they are on SSI/SSDI/Unemployment doing this on the tax payers dime.

    I for one resent the misuse of tax payers money.. ..and if this makes me American-centric so be it.

    ..A shitty thing to say? Plenty of shitty things have been said about transgendered peeps, but that seems to be just fine. The fact is if a person can spend every awakened going on a snipe hunt for transgendered people they can get a research job that pays.

    ReplyDelete
  83. "Yeah, because living as another sex would is so transgender. Get over yourself, Bluetraveler. What you believe is not real, has never been real, and WILL NEVER BE REAL.

    Quit telling it to other people as if your opinions are facts. If the other topic was indication, even your side has had more than enough of your pseudo-intellectual raving.

    Thank you."

    Bluetraveller is NOT REAL. She lives in a cukoo and fantasy world were evertyhing is solved by her mathematical and physics equations. She doesnt understand that anyone would have different philosophy and rules of living from here. Her way is the right way. She may be book smart but she is dumb as a rock about life in general.

    GID may be fake, unreal or whatever all i can say is so what, you "non believers" what is eating you up??. why is it causing you such bitterness? Its obviously tearing you up inside some people are able to transition. What is it to you, its not your body that been changed.

    ReplyDelete
  84. "Unless you are living in a cave somewhere, its common sense gays and lesbians require no drugs or mutilative surgeries to be attracted to same sex lovers. One doesnt have to be gay or lesbian to know this. Not like its a secret.

    dirt"

    Transexuality has nothing to do with homosexuality, despite some of its homosexual members being obsessed by it, rolleyes.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Blue is intelligent enough to see through the bullshit of transition, to understand how females develop the trans disorder and to have moved past her own development of trans feelings without having succumbed to the drugging and mutilation required by the male medical machine and the trans community itself regarding transition.

    dirt

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  86. Funny innit how when "science" benefits you, you shout the results from the rooftops, but when you know, real logic refutes your claims then you say logic doesn't really exist and life is all irrational and who cares because you are happy being drugged and mutilated. This to me says a whole lot about the trans mentality.

    And thanks Dirt, if you had never written maybe I wouldn't have brought my questioning closer to the core. I would have believed the smokescreen of "science" and that children and adults can grow up in a vacuum, while our society is vacuuming women...

    ReplyDelete
  87. Sorry the last thing I add (well, my fault for posting too soon): people here really believe I'm envious of transmen? Really? What a twisted mentality you must have. And yes, your body is yours, do what you want with it, and my mind is mine and I can criticize you, you know. You are not special enough not to be subjected to criticism. NOTHING IN THE WORLD IS (South Park got it best...Mrs Garrison)

    ReplyDelete
  88. @ Anon 2:54:

    "I disagree with people sitting around on disability when they clearly have computer skills they could be using to be self supportive. Hence.. I repeat myself.. My hunch is either some employer is paying somebody a salary to do their job and instead they are using their time online researching young ftm's.. OR they are on SSI/SSDI/Unemployment doing this on the tax payers dime.e
    I for one resent the misuse of tax payers money.. ..and if this makes me American-centric so be it."

    HOW is it a mis-use of tax payer money for someone on SSI/SSDI to research things on the internet in their spare time??? Do you need an accounting of everything they do? Does eating a sandwich on taxpayers' money also also make you feel taken advantage of because they should have had Ramen instead?

    Many people on SSI/SSDI worked long and hard, and hence are also taxpayers, before they became disabled.

    You suck - you're just trying to use this issue as a cover to piss and moan about how people on SSI/SSDI are lazy and "using" your tax dollars.

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  89. "You suck - you're just trying to use this issue as a cover to piss and moan about how people on SSI/SSDI are lazy and "using" your tax dollars."

    I don't think so.. There are those who rightfully should have their disability and there are those I have known over the years who could get up in the morning, organize what they were going to do on their websites/blogs for the day.. Spende the day doing it.. often times and them some.. repeat their efforts day in and day out.. Month in a month out.. Unless someone is independantly wealthy to run a website or blog such as this one.. They clearly can work. I have friends who deserve disability and don't get it. I have friends who deserve disability and do get it. But people who do life on disability who do not need to make it harder for those whe deserve disability and cannot get it.

    Guess I hit a couple of nerves huh? All I am saying is if those making these hateful blogs are on disability/unemployment/workmans comp/ or other various programs, go get a job. It is clear they can work.. On the other hand maybe they do work. Doesn't look that way tho.. Meanwhile quit judging the trans people as to how they are funding their surgeries.

    ReplyDelete
  90. oh so its ok to attack a "trans" person about using "tax payers money" (your words not mine)but its not ok for a trans person to defend them self?

    here is some history of my self and feel free to attack this:

    1) im 24 years old
    2) i am on HRT, have been for over 12 months
    3) I pay ALL medical costs in regards to my medical transition out of pocket, including my chest reconstruction surgery which cost me over $8,000
    4) Ive had EXTENSIVE councilling/therapy which was FORCED before doctors would continue my medical transition
    5) I was in a work place accident 4 years ago
    6) I LOST EVERYTHING including my relationship, job, accomidation etc
    ALL OF WHICH WERE DONT AS A WOMEN NOT A TRANSGENDER MAN.
    7) ALL legal cost came out of MY pocket (i did NOT sue, i fought for my rights as a worker to be acknowledged)
    8) My family have NOT bared ANY cost to my medical transition, they WERE however very involved with the process in the lead up to my diagnosis.
    9) I DONT acess womens ONLY medical services INC lesbian only spaces

    I had NO IDEA about being able to transition until AFTER i began to, i spent 2 years in INTENSE therapy NO ONE has forced this onto me, I HAVE been a discourager of HRT UNLESS you have dealt with all other issues/aspects in your life.
    Im NOT a 'medical transitioner' advocate, i WILL NEVER talk up how easy it is to transition, I HAVE NEVER nor WILL EVER glamorise transition.

    i see my general therapist on a 2 weekly basis AND my GID therapist on a 3 monthly basis (as legally required) surgery has NEVER been pushed by doctors/allies (inc TS community) ONLY DISCOURAGED.
    i chose to have chest surgery (after saying i wouldnt pre HRT) as i live in a climate where wearing my binder(boys bond singlet) (which i had done since i started puberty at 16)....

    There is some very brief history of a MAN who is a "woMAN"

    IM AN ADULT ATTACK ME I DONT MIND IM NOW CONTENT WITH MY SELF ENOUGH TO KNOW ONLY I MAKE MY CHOICES NO ONE ELSE CAN.
    KEEP IN MIND ALL THE FIGHTING I DID I STARTED AND FINISHED AS A WOMEN which have now made perminant changes for future generations. IT WASNT UNTIL I BEGAN TO MOVE FORWARD DID I MAKE MY DECISIONS TO LIVE IN THE FUTURE AS I VISIONED MY SELF.

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  91. number 6 not dont i ment DONE*

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  92. @feelfree,

    That you feel like you are being attacked because I question the needless drugs and healthy body mutilation to treat body dysphoria says it all.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  93. @bluetraveler
    "I'm envious of transmen? Really? "

    I think you like being the center of attention.. I also think you use Dirt's blog to get yours going. Nothing more and nothing less. As you said.. You are not that special..

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  94. @ Canadian > You would think that the "The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, Inc" might twig on to the fact that advocating the removal of body parts and the ingestion of powerful hormones to facilitate the norming of "gender varients" might be "pathologizing" in of itself.

    That depends entirely on whether or not doing those things promotes health. It does in only some people. Compare it if you will with Arsenic, which makes most people sick; but Arsenic has limited and valuable medical uses in some rare cases.

    Unfortunately some people think theory or dogma is more important than healing promoted by proven successful medical care.

    @ Canadian > If GID is a mental disorder then why does the trans community advocate the alteration of peoples bodies and the ingesting of powerful hormones?

    GID is not a genuine mental disorder, but it is very real in the same way that fiction books are real books. Proven-beneficial hormones and surgery are (in practice) held hostage to a requirement to feign this bogus mental disorder. Which is why transsexual people agree to be diagnosed with an identity disorder despite not having one.

    They should not do that, they should stand up for honesty, but they know that they will be denied medical treatment and probably die if they do.

    authored by Henry Hall

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  95. Mental disorders dont kill people, cancer causing drugs needlessly used to treat mental disorders however do. Along with drastic needless surgeries that take years victims lives.

    dirt

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  96. lol Dirt i dont feel you are attacking me I dont care what you think on transition, i want you to leave the kids out of it that you post pictures of... if those children change their mind in the future (prior to HRT/surgery) and delete their youtube accounts/videos, its to bad because any one can still find them on here...

    im happy you challange the things you are, i think it is needed, but i think posting pictures and 'naming names' become a bit personal and i think that is where lines are being crossed apart from that im happy for you to do your thing as i am doing mine

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  97. Bluetraveler may have escaped "drugging and mutilation" but she doesn't seem to have escaped the neurosis and paranoia that goes along with that decision. Many of the ftm's posting here seem more mentally sound, confident than our rabid and hysterical detractors. I'm sorry, but it really does beg the question: What *is* eating you about this issue?

    I also wonder about the following things:

    1)If you have trans feelings and don't transition, are you left in better place than if you *had*, given you are still obsessed with the issue?

    2)I can think of at least 1000 feminist issues that someone with alot of time and energy, plus computer skills, could devote their energy towards, other than transMEN transitioning. Can you?

    3) For the ftm's out there: have you ever tried to convince someone else to transition?

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  98. @ anon i agree

    and i NEVER have nor NEVER will encourage someone to transition

    i talk more of then negatives of transition then the benifits.. the benifits only benifit my self worth not someone else sense of worthyness of me

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  99. @Dirt, can you explain me what mean your commenters when tehyr write down "having trans-feeling" ?

    "having feeling for someone", ok, I have experienced it, I get it.

    "Wishing sometimes if I would be a male, life would be quite simpler", ok I get it, I feel it all the times at my high profile executive work.

    "Wanting to dress males clothes" and doing it, yes ok I get it, I do it every week-end.

    But what means this mysterious " having trans-feelings"?

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  100. i have read that site, im not blind to how their are trans who jump in and think automaticly it is for them. They go privately so they dont need to wait for the long waiting list. Soon as you know it they are taking hormone treatment, changes happened and they havent fully prepared themselves for it. This does happen. Not just with trans, but with anyone who goes under the knife. People feel regret everyday for doing something they wish they never did. Just a part of life. But the fact is, yeah there is trans who regret their sex change, but there is also trans who have went through the sex change and it has changed their life for the better. I know these people, i hang with these people, and these people are one of the most amazing people you would ever meet. Now everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But people are also entitled to live their life whatever way they want too. Its the beauty of free will. Now i know what is trying to be said in these blogs, trying to show the dangers or show the side affects ( that may happen ) but at the same time, some lines have been crossed, there is some blogs i dont agree with, but im not blind to the message that is trying to get across. But from always looking at the negative side, you are not going to see all the positive stuff that has happened for transfolks. A lot of them are really successful, have great jobs. Living a great life, have partners and getting on with their life. Now im trans, and i read that site, and im still going strong :)

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  101. "Most trans minds arent strong enough for that sight. Would bring the fears they have tried to bury closer to light."

    Judging from the rest of the thread, Dirt's comment is right on the money.

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  102. @Anon February 15, 2011 8:29 PM



    "GID is not a genuine mental disorder, but it is very real in the same way that fiction books are real books. Proven-beneficial hormones and surgery are (in practice) held hostage to a requirement to feign this bogus mental disorder. Which is why transsexual people agree to be diagnosed with an identity disorder despite not having one."

    Wow, what convolution. Because of the lack of physical evidence, transsexuals are forced to into this rather tortured reasoning. The question is, considering the lack of physical evidence(as the overwhelming majority of trans people are not intersex)what prompts trans people to seek treatment? Could it have something to do with their belief that they are in the wrong body? Could it be related to how they "Feel". All transsexuals relate the same types of stories. "I did not like wearing dresses", "I liked to play sports" etc. It is based on how they think females and males should feel and behave. For them it is an either/or situation and the so called "differences" between men and women are physically determined. To me and I suspect most of the "questioners" it appears that this is an extreme reaction to sex role stereotyping, in the same way the anorexia is at least a partial reaction to unrealistic expectations put on women to be thin.


    In the absence of physical evidence, what is the logic of treating this issue with physical intervention. Some believe that they should be disabled and want their limbs cut off. Should that be allowed too? If this should not be allowed then why should people who are transgender be allowed to change their bodies? What is the difference?

    "That depends entirely on whether or not doing those things promotes health. It does in only some people. Compare it if you will with Arsenic, which makes most people sick; but Arsenic has limited and valuable medical uses in some rare cases."

    The issue is definately out on whether this promotes "health". The term "health" in of itself is highly subjective. I assume that to you health is the resolution of the conflict between ones body and mind. Once that person conforms to society's expectations of gender they are deemed to be "healthy". It also assumes that transitioning is the correct solution. The existance of this blog and others attests to the fact that not everyone agrees with this. The whole GID/transitioning philosphy ignores the social aspect of attitudes torwards male and female and pretends that sexism does not exist and does not factor into this syndrome. This blog is rife with examples from transitioners themselves. Dirt has been accused of being in denial of her "transgederism" based on how she looks and acts. According to the transgenderists, Dirt is a prime candidate for transitionig based soley on externals, her looks and her behavior. Transgenderists do not seem to want to acknowledge or examine their own sexist attitudes.

    In regard to Arsenic, the rare medical uses for this substance have been confirmed scientifically, unlike transitioning. What is also very telling is your comparison of transitioning to a lethal poison.

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  103. @Brandon February 14, 2011 10:55 PM



    The study you cite was actually cited in another thread.
    A more complete summary is found here
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html

    You should really read some of these studies after you google them, because they sometimes contain contractions.

    My full response from the other thread

    1)In looking at this article it appears that it's conclusions where based on studies on approx 200 people in total.

    2)They found differences in "white matter", but the article does not suggest why such a link would exist. Such a link is causual and not proof in of itself.

    3)One study cited stated that of 121 transexuals only 38% reported "gender varience" by age 5. What of the other 62%. A statement at the end of this abstract provides a clue. "Research has shown that white
    matter matures during the first 20 to 30 years of life," he says. "People may experience
    early or late onset of transsexuality and we don't know what causes this difference."
    Hmmm, a fly appears in the ointment. Could it be that socialization(ie societal gender stereotyping) be a factor)? The fact is information in the abstract itself is contradictory and really does not support the optimistic conclusions that such differences can be used to monitor children for such 'differences'.
    4)Asssuming such difference exist physically, how does it follow that the remedy should be transitioning. To me it just confirms what feminists have long contended, that "masculine" and "feminine" traits are not exclusive to men or women respectively. The question needs to be asked, why do we assign certain traits as being exclusive to men and women and why as a society are we so zealous in punishing those who fall outside of the "norm". To me such sceintific research only serves to further a sexist partriarchal agenda, especially the part of the study that suggests that MRI scans can be used on children so that puberty can be delayed, presumably so that some medical remedy can be applied to "norm" these "gender varients"

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  104. Have a read of Milton Diamond's biased-interaction theory of psychosexual development, Canadian. It explains a great deal of what you are questioning, and we know for a fact that hormones in the womb change the behavior of animals. Nature and nurture are both factors, but the predisposition has to be there.

    Also, you should look up the difference between transgenderists (who also transition) and transsexuals, as well as primary and secondary transsexuals. Then you will really be up to speed on all of what is going on here. People can transition later because of circumstances and many other factors (or that they are secondary transsexuals). Puberty is usually the most serious triggering offset for a transsexual, but the denial can last a long time.

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  105. @ Canadian asks: what prompts trans people to seek treatment? Could it ... @ Canadian also asks: In the absence of physical evidence, what is the logic of treating this issue with physical intervention.

    Henry Hall answers:

    It does not matter what prompts them to seek medical care or assistance (which is not exactly the same as medical treatment since "treatment" implies "disorder"). No-one knows or cares what prompts them.
    AND
    There is no logic to treating a mental condition with a physical intervention. That does not matter either because the so-called mental condition of GID is a fiction.

    What does matter however, is a body of experience that (for those who seek physical breast and genital repurposing) psychoactive treatments make thing worse rather than better. And transition with hormones and surgery has a high patient satisfaction rate (well over 95%).

    This high satisfaction rate alone is evidence that there is no psychiatric disorder because treatments for psychiatric disorders do not remotely come close to a 90% rate of patient satisfaction.

    In the end long-term patient satisfaction is what matters in all aspects of medical care. Not theories.

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  106. "I'm sorry, but it really does beg the question: What *is* eating you about this issue?2

    PEOPLE SUFFERING AND KILLING THEMSELVES, ESPECIALLY FOR REASONS DUMB AS A BRICK, LIKE "GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER"!

    IS IT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

    (And no, I hate being in the spotlight. I am an introvert)

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  107. I also wonder about the following things:

    1)If you have trans feelings and don't transition, are you left in better place than if you *had*, given you are still obsessed with the issue?

    I am "obsessed with the issue" much like the suffragettes were "obsessed" with women voting and having equal rights. I DON'T HAVE TRANS FEELINGS. I am happy in my body actually, it's mine and it's nice! And I'm actually starting to like my face as well! But this took me years, and if I got on T I might have never known that.

    2)I can think of at least 1000 feminist issues that someone with alot of time and energy, plus computer skills, could devote their energy towards, other than transMEN transitioning. Can you?

    I see transsexuality as one of the most dangerous and murdering inventions of psychiatry, AND I have personal experience with the issue. So no, I can't. And I don't have a lot of time actually, I only make the best of the time I have.

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  108. No one can really define what "trans feelings" are. What all "trans" people do seem to have in common is that they are labile (opposite of stable) and have other issues/problems as well. So the medical community comes along and says "Hey, we can fix you and make you normal." And they jump at that.
    They go from dysphoria to Euphoria and then back to dysphoria.

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  109. @ No one can really define what "trans feelings" are. What all "trans" people do seem to have in common is that they are [unstable] and have other issues/problems as well.

    There are lots of things in life that no-one can define.

    All oppressed minorities have issues and problems caused by their oppression. It is not your mental illness that a flawed society punishes you for being unusual.

    The DSM-IV says as much "Neither deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) nor conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are mental disorders ... ". The one and only contradiction in the DSM to this statement in the same DSM is GID.

    authored by Henry Hall

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  110. Henry - Nobody can define what "trans feelings" really are. I think the word "labile" describes what they all have in common very well. That combined with searching for ways to feel better about other problems/issues makes people very vulnerable, especially when doctors say they can identify your problem and cure you. You can't really blame these girls for taking this imaginary "cure" that's being offered.
    Yes, everyone knows minorities have more issues/extra problems than the mainstream society. We believe that because there are results from valid studies.
    All minorities I can think of, except "trans," have an identity. What exactly are "trans" people fighting for when they say they are fighting for their rights?

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  111. "I DON'T HAVE TRANS FEELINGS. I am happy in my body actually, it's mine and it's nice!"

    That's great! We aren't!

    "I see transsexuality as one of the most dangerous and murdering inventions of psychiatry..."

    It isn't up there in 'murdering' by far (there are much worse psychiatric times and far worse psychiatric inventions), nor was it 'invented' in the first place. A man came along (an endocrinologist, mind you, not a psychiatrist) and gave a term to something that had already existed.

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  112. Anonymous transwoman, I take great offense to your post. I have PCOS and it makes me no less female!

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  113. @ All minorities I can think of, except "trans," have an identity. What exactly are "trans" people fighting for when they say they are fighting for their rights?

    Henry Hall responds:

    It's true that there is no substantial unity of identity or consensus as to what rights to fight for. What they should be fighting for is medical assistance without psychopathologisation and an end to oppression.

    A likely reason for the disunity is a long standing requirement to fabricate and deceive as the sole means of survival available to transkids.

    For an explanation of this phenomenon read the December 2010 paper by sociologists Natacha Kennedy and Mark Hellen, entitled "Transgender Children: More Than a Theoretical Challenge". But have a good sized box of tissue handy if you read it. Google will easily find the article.

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  114. "The DSM-IV says as much "Neither deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) nor conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are mental disorders ... ". The one and only contradiction in the DSM to this statement in the same DSM is GID."

    Since when is hating the healthy body that you were born with to the point of wanting dangerous hormones and surgery to "fix" it simply a conflict with society?

    ReplyDelete

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