Change Your World-NOT your Body

Tuesday, January 25, 2011

Topics Tuesday-Lesbian Sex

There seems to be a bit of a separatist resurgence lately that is policing lesbian sex and using past sexual experiences as well as current sexual practices with lesbian partners as a measuring stick to determine who is a real lesbian. Due to some recent complaints about this from a few different places I wanted to bring the issue up here for a topic discussion.

Some possible questions:
1) If a female has had past sexual experiences with a male, but none after coming out, is she still a lesbian?
2) Are "gold star" lesbians the only true lesbians?
3) Can lesbian couples do anything in bed to revoke their lesbianism? (anything involving the couple only)
4) Is enjoying penetrative sex unlesbian?
5) Is strapping unlesbian?

dirt
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24 comments:

  1. 1) If a female has had past sexual experiences with a male, but none after coming out, is she still a lesbian?
    -> YES
    2) Are "gold star" lesbians the only true lesbians?
    -> NO
    3) Can lesbian couples do anything in bed to revoke their lesbianism?
    -> Everything is possible and I include BDSM in lesbian sexuality...
    4) Is enjoying penetrative sex unlesbian?
    -> Are you prude? 2 women in bed making it is lesbian whatever the play ;)
    5) Is strapping unlesbian?
    No and it does not make of a butch or a lesbian, a confused FTM who has FTM feelings ;)

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  2. I agree totally with every statement by 9:02
    (I have a gold star- just bragging)
    (& I've only recently begun accepting my fondness for strapping, though my girlfriend who had only been with men prior could do without it)

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  3. 1)Yes of course!
    2)Nope
    3)Not unless it includes bringing men into the equation.
    4)Definitly not! Both me and my girlfriend enjoy penetrative sex and this does not diminish our lesbianism by one iota!
    5)Again this is a no. Out of all the lesbians I know including myself, every single one has tried strapping at least once, and most do it quite often.

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  4. Thank you anon@ 9:02. Your comment is far better than any I would have given.

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  5. 1) If a female has had past sexual experiences with a male, but none after coming out, is she still a lesbian?
    *Yes, one hetrosexual experience(before or after coming out) does not a lesbian make
    2) Are "gold star" lesbians the only true lesbians?
    *No--See above
    3) Can lesbian couples do anything in bed to revoke their lesbianism?
    *No being a lesbian is what one is, nothing can revoke that except if one realizes they were never gay to begin with.
    4) Is enjoying penetrative sex unlesbian?
    *No--penetrative sex is an act not an orientation
    5)
    *No--See above

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  6. I like your definition, Dirt: it's future sex with men that revokes your lesbian card, not former sex with men.

    Some of your questions call other things into question:

    First of all, is it your sexuality that makes you a lesbian? If so, what about women who aren't in a relationship or otherwise having sex right now? How long can they go without before they have to stop calling themselves lesbians? What about women who can't have sex or who don't want to have sex (for any reason they consider valid) - are they still lesbians? Is sex the only criterion or are there others? If you fantasize about sex with men while having sex with a woman are you a lesbian? How about role-playing where one of the women is playing as a man? If you're a lesbian having sex with a woman who has only had sex with men in the past, does she become a lesbian right then and there as long as she never plans to have sex with men again? If a woman has only had sex with women, but is considering having sex with men (but hasn't yet), is she still a lesbian?

    If the word "lesbian" just meant "I have sex with women" I'd turn in my Gold Card right now.

    For me it actually means that only women are potential life-long mates for me, women (and especially other lesbians - you know, the ones who feel the way I'm describing) are my best friends and my core community, they embody my romantic ideals, lesbian personal experience informs my politics, lesbian culture is what I seek and desire, lesbian voices and ideas are what I'm interested in, and in lesbian company is where I prefer to laugh, play, experience, and learn. And yeah, I love sex with women, but if I didn't have that, I'd still be lesbian through and through.

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  7. imho -

    1.) Yes. of course.

    2.) No. I have a "gold star" but all it means to me is that I've never felt the need to "prove I'm really straight" as sadly many women feel they have to.

    3.) The only things a lesbian can do to revoke her lesbianism is a. plan on sleeping with men, and acting on it and yet claiming she's still a lesbian or b. calling herself a man/demanding to be called "he"

    4.) of course it's not unlesbian to enjoy penetration.

    5.) of course not, neither does strapping make a woman a man. there are subtle but important differences between strapping and straight sex too - ie strapping can last as long as the strappee desires, whereas penetrative straight sex is entirely dependent on the "stamina" of the man.

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  8. 1. Yes
    2. No
    3. Definitely not! The more fun and creative the better!
    4. Hell no!
    5. See answer to #4.

    I never gave the time of day to the sex police....a resurgence of that tired old way of thinking is exactly what we DON'T need these days! Better to just ignore their bad advice and enjoy life!

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  9. DM! Exactly. People in general don't respond well to policing what they do with their bodies.

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  10. I'm curious as to what this is in response to, since the few separatists I know aren't interested in "policing lesbian sex". Can you point me in the right direction?

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  11. Rachel,

    A combo of FB messages and emails in the last few weeks.

    dirt

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  12. 1) Yea, she might have been trying to prove herself heterosexual as I have heard happens sometimes. Some people even get married to men to make their families happy but just can't deal.

    2) Nah, for the same reason above. Family or religion can have huge impacts on our early decisions in life. It was actually family and religion, maybe ironically, that kept me a "gold star" and abstinent until I was 22.

    3) No, I don't think so.

    4) Omgosh no, especially when a woman just likes it or can orgasm through penetrative sex. It would be a crime to deny that because of perceived unlesbian ideas.

    5) No, again see #4. Besides some like strapping and some like penetration which can be a recipe for amazing.

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  13. 1) If a female has had past sexual experiences with a male, but none after coming out, is she still a lesbian?

    Of course. Sexuality is something you come to terms with. Sometimes it can take time. Sometimes sexual encounters are about circumstance.

    2) Are "gold star" lesbians the only true lesbians?

    Not at all. Not when society encourages us to be heterosexual our entire lives. It might take take sleeping with a man to have an in-depth perspective on what a woman wants.

    3) Can lesbian couples do anything in bed to revoke their lesbianism? Not at all. I think sex play / role play is healthy. It might be an indicator if a girl role plays as a man consecutively though.

    4) Is enjoying penetrative sex unlesbian?
    Not at all. Our bodies crave certain kind of stimulus - which elicits pleasure. As long as a woman is doing it, why would that ever be unlesbian?

    5) Is strapping unlesbian? Not at all. If two women are actively engaging in sexual intimacy, no matter the apparatus, and they are coherent about their own gender- ie: They are two women who enjoy sexual relations with one another, then it is never unlesbian.

    However, after dating a woman who used to date an FTM - it's my opinion that FTM's use strapons in a misogynistic fashion. They use the strapon as a weapon or a tool of rape culture. As a mean of dominance, instead as a tool of sexual pleasure.

    Men use their dicks as weapons, as many FTM's do.

    It gives the apparatus a bad name with lesbians. If you strap it on- you want to be a man. Only butch lesbians can strap... yada yada.

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  14. Hi dirt,

    Using a strap-on with another womon doesn't make one not a lesbian, but I certainly wouldn't want to be involved with a woman who wanted to bring one in. I had a someone I was recently interested in ask how I felt about bringing a strap-on into bed, and I was mortified; I don't want anything resembling a dick in the bedroom, or anywhere else close to me! And frankly, I just don't understand why any lesbian would.

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  15. RP,

    You have to do what is comfortable/HOT for you.

    For any lesbian I've ever known who uses a dildo whether on themselves or with a partner, thats all it is, a dildo. Has nothing to do with a "dick" or with males or wanting to be a male.

    I suspect had males never existed and women still had sexually stimulated vaginas, women/lesbians would still be using devices that accommodate vaginal penetration.

    And RP, not all dildos resemble a "dick".

    dirt

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  16. I can't remember if I hit the "send" button on a previous comment and I REALLY don't want to offend any lesbians (because hey they're awesome) with my spewage when it's so difficult to express my thoughts. But here goes anyway.

    I'm not lesbian but have pretty much everything else in common with them politically, ideologically, etc etc. I'm not heterosexual and LOATH being around hetero-normativity. Yet, even moi is not welcome in lesbian spaces because of their (some/most/all/who knows?) insistence that "the only people who are welcome here are women who are needing to be fucked by a woman tonight or tomorrow".

    This means I'm not welcome in the only community that I have a snowball's chance in hell of feeling comfortable. I wish I had a greater number of friends with whom I actually had many things in common but apparently that's not gonna happen...

    On the few occasions I have attempted to enter lesbian spaces, it was quite common for some amount of lesbian police to get all shouty about their strict must-fuck-a-lesbian-if-you-want-to-hang-out-here requirements, and since no other lesbian bothered to contradict the speaker or offer support for me, then what else am I to assume then that the silent majority are in agreement?

    Btw, I'm not a freaking doormat -- if I wanted to have sex with squirrils then I'd fucking say so!! In other words, I'm not "repressing" any goddamn thing when I tell people "hey did you hear the part where I said I was neither lesbian nor het and yet I LOATH being around hetero-normativity"? I also have major disagreement with the queer ideology, so hanging around with them is not an option.

    BUT, if I were a teenage girl right now who couldn't find acceptance from the lesbian community, then I'd end up with the queers folks and hearing all about their happy fluid transgendered bullshit. I'm hearing several lesbians here imply that they might accept someone like me, yet I sure didn't hear anybody objecting to the shouty lesbian police at the gatherings I attended. Which is why I politely made a hasty exit and never went back.

    Anyway, loving the questions by Noanodyne and wish folks would answer those instead.

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  17. I'll just cut this short since this one is the major determiner for "lesbian status". You are a lesbian if you love women physically and emotionally exclusively. If you are thinking about banging dudes in the future, regardless of what you think and say, you are bisexual.

    I know everyone seems to be touting the "sexual fluidity" thing, but from what I heard about that study was the only ones that were fluid were the ones that weren't 100% exclusive in their attractions.

    I am sick of everyone trying to redefine the word "lesbian". I just as sick of that as I am of women saying "I'd go lesbian for ". As if you can just turn lesbian for a cute girl. SMGDH. Way to trivialize our orientation.

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  18. 1) If a female has had past sexual experiences with a male, but none after coming out, is she still a lesbian?
    Of course.
    2) Are "gold star" lesbians the only true lesbians?
    No. Sorry but no no no
    3) Can lesbian couples do anything in bed to revoke their lesbianism? (anything involving the couple only)
    Mmmmm....I think I'd be suspect to if they brought a man into bed, but other than that...no.
    4) Is enjoying penetrative sex unlesbian?
    Nope.
    5) Is strapping unlesbian?
    nope and btw, it feels utterly different to be with a woman who straps that with a man. There seemingly a comparison, but no....they are very different experiences and feelings.

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  19. Did you get my other comment on this subject? Or do I have to write another one??? Mostly I agree with the points..with some additions...but can't remember all of what I wrote, so please do list it if you have it..thanks.
    -MasterAmazon
    P.S. Lesbian sex is one of my FAVORITE topics!

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  20. mAndrea, you are welcome in my lesbian community anytime.
    :)

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  21. Um a lesbian is a woman exclusively attracted to other women. What they like doing in bed doesn't change that. End of

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  22. I enjoy that my comments are NEVER actually posted.

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  23. Let me answer question number 4 with another question...is a gay man who enjoys penetrative sex ungay? It's not what you do, it's who you do with it. I got news for you, your body doesn't know you're gay, only your mind does....

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  24. I forgot to add, strapping is also not unlesbian, based on the above. I would have thought it was all common sense really.

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