Change Your World-NOT your Body

Friday, January 7, 2011

Kate Kendell NCLR Email

This is the email I received a few days ago from the exec director of the NCLR, short but not sweet. Why the figure head of a several million dollar a year national org would feel the need to personally email a lone blogger who dared to correct the deceptive nature of the orgs name against the orgs true intentions I can only hazard a guess: to intimidate me.

Kate says the NClR is "committed to the safety, security and liberation of lesbians" among others. Amid the fetid "queer" atmosphere that gets thicker and thicker with every lesbian breath we take, an atmosphere places like the NClR helped create and are helping to further. I ask you, do you as a lesbian feel safe, secure and fucking liberated???? Maybe we lesbians could see if the NCLR would sue itself for false advertising, false promises and using their malecentric power/wealth to harm lesbians everywhere!

This is an open comment discussion post with relation to your feelings on the NClR and any other decpetive org like theirs.

dirt
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95 comments:

  1. I am a lesbian and I fuck you Kate Kendell. You don't respect us: you just take the money and use it for other purposes. Using a lesbians.org funds for FTM and gay males is a scam.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I havr absolutely nothing to do with any lGBT group (god am I glad), but from a purely logical point this center should be named National Center fot lGBT rights. Advertising otherwise is deliberately misleading and lesbian-using. What the NClR is fighting for is not necessarily wrong, BUT it's USING LESBIANS TO PROMOTE UNRELATED CAUSES!

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think you're right - they should sue themselves.
    I'm beyond disgusted at this blatant "bait and switch" job they've done.
    Out of 10K people that like their page I really wonder how many know what the NCLR is really about??

    ReplyDelete
  4. Using the word "lesbian" as well as the time, energy, and money of real, live lesbians to fight hard to make sure that men can compete in women's sports indicates perfectly what NCLR is all about.

    Real lesbians are treated like absolute shit all over the world. An organization with the word "lesbian" in it should be working on a whole long list of things that have nothing to do with men (former, current, or future).

    If you want to work for men, then put them in your name and take OURS out!!!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Seb,

    I cant believe the NClR deleted your comment (which was even aggressive) AND banned you from their page just for asking a simple question.

    dirt

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  6. I appear to put the fear of God into people. Why should they be different? ;-D

    seriously though - I don't think they want any attention drawn to them NOT being what they claim to be. Seems like they're awfully defensive. Am sure there's a good reason, most likely money related. Isn't everything about money? Even these not for profit joints? Hell, my company was non-profit on paper yet made millions.

    Grants rock. All the free money floating around and all one has to do is give a speech, if that, and add a line somewhere in the fine print, or put an emblem somewhere.

    WE CAN BE BOUGHT.
    Obviously so can the NCLR!

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  7. You're scaring them, dirt! Keep it up, sister! ;)

    LESBIAN is a binary category for WOMEN. As anon says "An organization with the word "lesbian" in it should be working on a whole long list of things that have nothing to do with men (former, current, or future)." Right. Anything the NCLR does to specifically benefit men, is correspondingly harmful to women BECAUSE the oppositional concept of masc/fem is the FOUNDATION of male supremacy. Fuck Kate Kendell.

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  8. Damn Dirt!! You rock!! Word!!
    And that email was WOW, Kate Kendall-- do lesbians have enough resources to purely take care of lesbian needs? Are we all Billina Gates? I looked at all those LGBT non-profits and said no way, I want my hard earned lesbian dollars going to lesbians. But center for lesbian rights--- that's lesbian only in the name, NAACP does not fight for white people, my god, the horror of this realization. I feel betrayed, fell asleep at the wheel. When I think of my sisters out of work, kicked out of companies, harassed on the job, not enough money for rent... and one dime of this money going to men makes me wanna hollar!! This is a wake up call to all lesbians nationwide, we need to either take back NCLR, or we are dupes to the patriarchy, dupes to the trans, just plain dupes!!

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  9. You are so angry.

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  10. Reminds me of the AIDS fundraising-- all those millions of dollars and how are lesbian affected by this? How many lesbians do you know who are HIV positive that are part of the so-called "gay community."

    Get the word out sisters, this is a lesbian in name only, and Kate Kendell is a sell out, and you are scaring her to death, because now the truth will be know far and wide--thanks Internet!!!

    ReplyDelete
  11. They should simply change the name of the organization and stop the bait and switch tactics. This organization is one big lie, and how it got away with this for so long is beyond me!

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  12. How much money in this organization goes directly to lesbians? On staff? In the legal cases? How much goes to men or trans? It's a non-profit, they must have this data on the internet or with the IRS, we have a right to know. Let's find out and follow the money sisters!! Let's do the math!!

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  13. Kate Kendall, how much money goes directly for lesbian only activism and legal cases? How much goes to trans? Let's put the money on the table and full disclosure please!
    Accountability is the key here!!!!gateegr

    ReplyDelete
  14. DM,

    The lack of feminist therapy has been the problem from the get go with trans issues.

    Therapists subscribe to the male medical model and are conditioned by the male medical machine and all patriarchal systems the same way as those who develop the trans disorder. Its a viscous cycle.

    I will search for feminist therapists and add any if I find some to the lesbian lists.

    dirt

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  15. Anon@4:33pm

    You better fucking believe I'm angry and I will stay angry till every lesbian is angry enough to stand up, step forward, be counted and begin making some serious fucking changes!

    dirt

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  16. @4:33pm

    I know, women being angry the horror!!!

    How irrational to express outage that an organization called "National Center for Lesbian Rights" trots out a trans male as a spokesperson and when questioned responds with an email from a lawyer.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Here's an email I sent them after they introduced their "I Am NCLR" campaign. Gack.


    Dear Director/s,

    I have been frustratingly following your Facebook stream and trying to find some ounce of connection & familiarity with what you are posting . . . Alas, as a lesbian (all my life, but “out” for over 21 years), I have yet to honestly say that “I am NCLR”. And that’s sad and a little confusing.

    Firstly, I’m not sure how a straight male can be the legal director of such an organization. His “rights” are exceedingly different from mine. And you consistently share stories about gay men, celebrate absurd days like “Bisexual Pride Day”, and focus primarily on assimilationist fights like being able to enter into the patriarchal institution of marriage and fight in a brutal military where 1/3 of its female “soldiers” are raped by other male soldiers. 1 in 3. I have yet to read anything on your page why that statistic should be a concern for women or lesbians.

    I don’t think gay people should be treated differently or singled out as a group. And I am also fiercely protective of lesbian identity and culture. I don’t see your organization treating lesbian culture, herstory or identity with any kind of respect. I see you diluting it, remarkably. You are highlighting the rights of “everyone” so I implore you to take the word “Lesbian” out of your name.

    Respectfully,

    ReplyDelete
  18. Maybe it's time for:

    "The LESBIAN National Center for Lesbian Rights"

    They can bloody sue us if they want, but it should make the mass media and wake up a bunch more dykes.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'm encouraged once again that they're responding to you, Dirt. I think this would be a good time to organize ourselves and make them - and others -take even more notice. Some of you have already done this. Now will the rest of us commit to an email and a Facebook page comment?

    ReplyDelete
  20. http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/nclrights

    They have just posted a throw-the-bitches-a-bone message up regarding us. A typical male tactic used to pacify women.

    Dont be fooled lesbians!

    And please comment on their FB page, all they can do is ban you or delete your comment like they have been doing to lesbians asking questions. But let your voices be heard!

    Because what lies behind our voices are REAL lesbian problems that orgs like theirs have been ignoring for fucking years!

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  21. Quick everyone post! I don't have a damn facebook account (maybe I will create one). But Kate "sell-out" Kendell just opened a discussion thread on the matter on their facebook site:
    http://www.facebook.com/notes/the-national-center-for-lesbian-rights/in-support-of-dialogue/10150363851720291

    GOOD JOB DIRT! KEEP IT UP!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Would someone PLEASE ask on that thread what percentages of funding, staffing, litigation, and advocacy are focused on FEMALE people.

    Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anon at 5:38, why is Bisexual Pride "absurd"? I understand if you mea it's absurd in the context of an organization which calls itself "Lesbian Rights" celebrating it; they should be celebrating lesbian things and fighting lesbian fights with such a name, otherwise they should re-name themselves so as not to be misleading. But if this isn't what you mean, I'm confused; why is Bisexual Pride an "absurd" day?

    ReplyDelete
  24. I don't have a FB account, but everyone who does, please ask them for the low down on how much money goes to lesbian concerns, bi, trans etc. at NCLR-- Once we nail them on the money, get the numbers of total people served there -- clearly labeled---How many gay men get those lesbian dollars? How many gay male court cases do they fight? What is the percentage of money going to LESBIANS and why is one damn dime going to ANYTHING NON_LESBIAN? Why? We need real grassroots rebellion against all these LGBT "centers" because it's all a front to steal money from lesbians, every damn one. But somehow the idea that NCLR hires transmen to be spokespeople is the very last straw in the bundle!! How did we miss this one for so long? Flood them with letters, emails, outrage, let them hear from thousands and thousands of lesbians nationwide. They need to hear from the real lesbian community, not those fake sell outs, CEOs, CEOs!!! Enough already, we need revolution and we need to take back this organization!

    ReplyDelete
  25. What is the snail mail address of NCLR--I'm sending a letter as soon as I get it Dirt--real letters count! Let's start a FB, letter writing, emailing whatever campaign from lesbians nationwide..cable access shows? Go viral on the internet with this message worldwide!!

    ReplyDelete
  26. If anyone from the NCLR is reading this, I'd like them to know that I noticed circa 1999 that their organization was working mostly on trans and "queer" issues. And for that reason, the NCLR has not received a dime from me since.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I would donate to Planned Parenthood any day before the NCLR. Their books are transparent, and they're doing something concrete to improve women's lives. Too many women don't have access to basic care, which they provide, along with the family planning stuff. A surprising number of lesbian teenagers end up with unwanted pregnancies, as well, due to pressure to prove that they're straight.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Are people posting on the NCLR facebook page and getting deleted? I'm looking at the page and I don't see Dirt or anyone else posting there.

    How about if people post on the FB page they copy and paste their posts here, so we can see what the NCLR is deleting?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Ah, more "community" talk from the NCLR. Why do they think there's such a thing as the LGTB(IIQWERTYUIOP) community? Women who are also homosexual face discrimination as women first, and then as homosexual women.

    I'm using the word homosexual because it cuts through the identity politics BS. Our rights are denied not because of what we "identify" as, or who we may or may not associate with, or what we think of as our "community," but because of our sex and sexual orientation. It's that simple.

    For every dude in prison who wants a sex change, there are hundreds of women who never broke any law, but lost their jobs when their employers found out they were homosexual. Anyone who believes those issues are really interconnected gets the Naive Liberal of the Year Award.

    ReplyDelete
  30. You are the most negative individual that I have ever came across. You find negativity in basically everything it seems. You go out and look for people and orginizations to criticize. Your life would be a lot more positive and you would be a much happier person if you would look for the good in people and in life rather than the bad. You are a glass half empty type of person, you should try being a glass half full person instead. You will live longer!

    ReplyDelete
  31. 8.20 Anon,

    back from a lobotomy?
    You can't be truly happy if you turn a blind eye to justice.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Also, I'd gladly comment on their FB page, but I can't for some reason. Help?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Anon@8:20. You sound like one of those people who thought it was a gift when Bernie Madoff stole their life savings. Yes, they're broke, but now they really GET what their yoga teacher is talking about when he tells them to be in the moment.

    Back before there were effective drugs for HIV, and being HIV+ meant you could look forward to a few years of misery on AZT, followed by an agonizing death from AIDS, it was in vogue in some circles to tell HIV+ people that their condition was a gift. (They could look for the good in life, and "resign from the debating society," and "make amends," and OMG get in touch with what REALLY MATTERS!) If someone with HIV+ had the temerity to say, "No, I'm going to die young of a horrible disease, and I think that's really shitty, and I'm angry that the current administration is sitting on its hands because AIDS is just dome fag disease," those positive-think pushers shamed them for "being negative." You sound like one of those, too.

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  34. Blue, I think you have to "like" their page first? You can always unlike it later.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Dirt this is what i like seeing you do, your fighting for YOUR rights and OTHER WOMENS rights as lesbians. this is what i feel all this energy should be put into, taking back what is for YOU, not for Transgendered people or Gay (men), but for LESBIANS.

    L

    ReplyDelete
  36. National Office

    870 Market Street Suite 370
    San Francisco CA 94102

    tel: 415.392.6257
    fax: 415.392.8442

    General information: info@nclrights.org

    Press inquiries: eolvera@nclrights.org

    Development or donation inquiries: development@nclrights.org

    Website Inquiries: website@nclrights.org


    For those who were asking there is the contact details

    ReplyDelete
  37. Here's what I just posted on their FB page under their bunk note:

    ank you, Stacy, for bringing up the point that someone might assume their donations are going towards the rights of a specific demographic . . . Maybe exchange sexual orientation for race. And imagine an organization with a specific cult...ural background in their name. And now imagine that group fighting for the right of individuals who changed their race because they didn't feel right in their skin and became another race. Or pretended to be that race once in college. Or kinda wants to be that race, but doesn't want to give up their white privilege. Or groups all cultural backgrounds into one race and acts as if their struggle is the same. That's how the NCLR's use of Lesbian in their name feels to me. That strange.

    ReplyDelete
  38. @ Anon 10:43...

    Um, you are HOT.

    :)

    Sorry, needed to be said.

    ReplyDelete
  39. One star rating. No transparent audited financial reports.

    http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8094

    ReplyDelete
  40. Here's what I posted:

    You can fight any battles you want to fight, but calling yourself a "lesbian" organization - the word is right there in your name and there are no others - implies that those people are who you are working for exclusively. The NAACP does not spend their donors' dollars fighting for the rights of white people and their name makes that perfectly clear. PETA? Animals is their cause, they don't concern themselves with abused children - it's right there in their name and people donating money and time understand exactly what the mission is. If you don't intend to mislead people, why have you not changed your name to reflect exactly what you do and who you represent? You were one of the first organizations that I "liked" on Facebook. I watched your posts for any indication that my interests and rights were foremost in your minds and found that you're just another generic gay group. There are almost no national groups whose interest it is to fight for the unique issues that lesbians face. You are misleading many people by using the name you use. If you want to work across the entire GLBTQI spectrum, then that should be reflected in your name. Anything else is lying. It's that simple.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Noan THEY DELETED YOU!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous @Noanodyne ... Are you Amy? She's the only thing posted at the time you said you put something up.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I think there was an FB glitch when I was posting, but it seems to be up right now.

    ReplyDelete
  44. What I said in case they delete it:

    "While it is true that there are transsexual lesbians like myself, I still fail to see where that support for female-to-males, gay males, or bisexuals comes from in an organization with a very unsuitable name for such. You are not somehow doing me any favors by focusing on any of those groups instead of lesbians. The 'trickle down' or, "We're all intertwined!" nonsense is what gay men have been leading lesbians and transsexuals on with for years and years now. "Help us and you'll help yourselves!" Unsurprisingly enough, it doesn't work that way."

    The thought that screwing the lesbians over somehow helps us from one of the commenters was more than just a little irritating. The fact that NCLR supports gay males outright pisses me off. Like they need any more support! Some of the alphabet is really suffering, and it sure as hell isn't the G.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Did a little digging for into on MCLR--
    they got a one star rating, the lowest out of 4 star system, their overall score was 39.79
    Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice NY scored 65.09 and got a 4 star rating.

    Even PFLAG did better overall than this group. Kate Kendell gets a salary of $175,000 a year, and it's budget is a couple of million.
    I'd like to see a percentage breakdown of total lesbians served vs. the other groups. The whole thing re lesbians stinks to high heaven, and if they won't publish this debate on FB, another FB account can be set up to accept commentary. These organizations are so far away from what the lesbian movement was originally all about, that the thing boggles the mind. The idea that if we help everyone else, this will help lesbians sounds like Reagan and the trickle down theory to me. We all know how well that works, and what happens to a fragile lesbian community where resources aren't focused 100% on lesbians. But hey, if I was getting $175,000 a year, what would I care about a working class dyke in Oakland?

    ReplyDelete
  46. I got yer "arc of justice" right her Kate, it's a labrys aimed right at your feckin' lyin' neck.

    ReplyDelete
  47. In case i'm deleted: Don't forget why this discussion started, it's thanks to Dirty White Boi - Dirt, the butch lesbian blogger. Read everything, including, all our comments, to find out why we're pissed, and why we won't stand for an organization that helps ga...ys, bis and trannies.

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/nclr-aka-transgay-male-rights-org-part.html

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/kate-kendell-nclr-email.html

    Our position is clear in our comments. Lesbian issues only, and not anything that promotes men, or patriarchial society, like marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Maybe we all should band together and make our own Lesbian-run, Lesbian-only organization. There are tons of people on here who could help build it from the ground up. Thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Fuck! An FB glitch isn't lettin me post. Can someone post the above comment that gives credit to Dirt?

    ReplyDelete
  50. What happened to my comment on this page? I just commented that we need to give credit to Dirt, and it's gone. What the fuck?

    ReplyDelete
  51. This is what I tried to post. Will someone else try to post for me?

    Don't forget why this discussion started, it's thanks to Dirty White Boi - Dirt, the butch lesbian blogger. Read everything, including, all our comments, to find out why we're pissed, and why we won't stand for an organization that helps ga...ys, bis and trannies.

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/nclr-aka-transgay-male-rights-org-part.html

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/kate-kendell-nclr-email.html

    Our position is clear in our comments. Lesbian issues only, and not anything that promotes men, or patriarchial society, like marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  52. You act all high and mighty... Get off your dyke high horse because honestly, it's getting more and more disgusting by the day. You act like everyone is out to get you. Christ! Well on second thought, you spend your pathetic life pissing everyone off so maybe they are.

    You have some serious issues.

    ReplyDelete
  53. You all make me so proud to be a lesbian! We have a uniqueness all our own and fierceness that no one can rival!

    Stand strong like only you can dear lesbians!

    We have a right for our very lives not to be USED and ABUSED by an org than clearly no longer represents us in any way, shape or form.

    The NClR, like the queer/trans community are using OUR lives to promote THEIR malecentric issues!

    dirt

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  54. Anon@3:13 said "You have some serious issues".

    You better believe we do and we're going to begin rectifying those "issues" RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW!

    dirt

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  55. "ou are misleading many people by using the name you use. If you want to work across the entire GLBTQI spectrum, then that should be reflected in your name. Anything else is lying. It's that simple."

    For the record, they don't use another name even if their activities are G,B, T and not L oriented because then they will use their unique "brand" positioning & recognition. As a consequence, their positioning on the LGBTQI "non profit market" will put them in competition with more efficient/more relevant GBT organizations...
    It is just marketing for fund raising.

    PS: Dirt, thanks again! You do the investigation work journalists should do!

    ReplyDelete
  56. Please read "lose" instead of use in my previous comment.

    And I will be interested if Dirt can post in an article a "mapping" of the non profit LGBTQ market ie a chart with the name of the most famous org and their positioning with an X-Y axis scale:
    * Y axis -> name positioning based on sexual orientation : G or L (B being the zero) with +10 for 100% Lesbian org, and - 10 for 100% Gay org
    * X axis -> gender positionning (action for male gender or for female gender). -10 for Male and + 10 Female gender

    For example the NCLR is branded "lesbian" so they rank on Y +10 on L but their activities are for male gender people (gay or straight FTM) so theyr rank -10 on the X

    By doing so we can easily spot the incongruence of lgbtq "non profit market" positioning.
    And if we put other organisations than the NCLR on this X-Y axis mapping, we will be able to spot the org that serve their original mission the best and the ones which have shifted from their original mission like the NCLR...

    ReplyDelete
  57. "For example the NCLR is branded "lesbian" so they rank on Y +10 on L but their activities are for male gender people (gay or straight FTM) so theyr rank -10 on the X"

    No!
    In your mapping you should use a Y axis for sexual orientation gay/lesbian or straight:
    *+10 for homo (gays/lesbian) and
    *-10 for straight.

    Then the NCLR will rank:
    * on the X gender axis, "male" (they serve FTM males and bio males)-> minus 10
    * on the Y sexual orientation axis, gay and straight as they serve gay males and FTM straight males: -10 and + 10
    which means the NCLR will be represented on your mapping by 2 dots:
    *one for gay male (X=-10;Y=+10)
    *one for straight FTM (X=-10;Y=-10)

    A lesbian organisation should rank normally:
    *X gender axis: +10
    *Y sexual orientation axis: +10

    ReplyDelete
  58. There, NCLR is doing a dialogue.

    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150363851720291&comments

    Lisa Toothman the main focus should be on just lesbian rights and responsibilities. there are a lot of organizations out there that fight for gay rights in general. there should be groups such as this that focus on one group of a group.

    Tara Baxagocsy I think what I read, actually, was that your name is confusing. NOT that you should ONLY work on behalf of lesbians, but that maybe you should remove "lesbian" from your name as you are a group made up of not *just* lesbians working on behalf of "everyone" under the umbrella of queer. So I think your note may be a little innacurate.

    Annalise Ophelian I couldn't agree more with what Kate has written here, and it's because of NCLR's commitment to social justice and undoing oppression for all our communities that I support the NCLR. Thank you for continuing to recognize that as lesbians, our well-being is intertwined with our all of our lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender communities.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Stacy Bowring
    It's always a fine line, because if you start excluding others, you may be accused of what you are fighting against. I think that as your name states, the primary focus should be lesbian rights, but there are so many ways of going about th...at, and often what benefits us will benefit others. Honestly, of all the LGBT organizations that come up with posts on my facebook wall, I think I respect yours the most, and I have no problem with you working toward improving the bigger picture for all, because it trickles down. Whether we like it or not, women are often caretakers for others, and I think it shows one of our fundamentally female characteristics to improve life for others as well as ourselves.

    Lm Baker Curious, what percentages of funding, staffing, litigation, and advocacy are focused on FEMALE/Lesbian people?

    Kirk Childress I would hate to think that I should quit supporting lesbians just because I'm not one of them.

    Jeff Pittelkau
    I think NCLR's positioning reflects a more enlightened and productive view gleaned from many years of civil rights struggles which is perhaps best exemplified in Pastor Martin Niemöller's famous quote "First they came..."

    It's from a differe...nt time and a different context, but it's perfectly apropos in this dialogue. We have so much to lose in terms of energy, time and opportunity when we separate into our little "us vs. them" hierarchies of dichotomies.

    Maintaining these separations takes work, both to define them, and to keep score about why each of us is better and more deserving than the other, lesser group from which we'd like to separate ourselves. All that extra work to keep score takes our eye off the ball, which is exactly what the opressor wants.

    Tara Baxagocsy I don't think it's about being better or more deserving. Noone is saying that. Don't read into these comment as anything other than an organization that primarily fights for the rights of every "queer" should consider taking "Lesbian" out of their name in order to reflect their all encompassing vision.

    Tara Baxagocsy Kirk, thanks for supporting lesbians. If you ran an organization called Kirk's Center for Lesbian Rights, then I might have something more to say. :-)

    Lorretta Woodbury I for one do not believe in exclusion and segregation. I believe I have taken it for granted that LGBT are all included here at NCLR. Hence; I thank NCLR and those staffed at NCLR for being inclusive and for all the time you dedicate to our community.

    Lorretta Woodbury ‎@Jeff Pittelkau This pretty well sums it up.. At the end of the day, we are all in this together..

    Stacy Bowring
    We are at a precipice right now. The tide is turning. This is an important time in history for us. I think we do need to stand together to make sure the tide keeps turning in the right direction, but we also need to make sure that our sp...ecific lesbian rights and needs are seen too, because I think that it's easy to forget about us. I think a group that has a specific name that implies a specific purpose is taking donations from people that may be donating because they want to contribute to that purpose, so that needs to be kept in mind, but again, the bigger picture here will affect us all, and good spread around comes back stronger.

    etc...

    ReplyDelete
  60. Tara Baxagocsy
    Thank you, Stacy, for bringing up the point that someone might assume their donations are going towards the rights of a specific demographic . . . Maybe exchange sexual orientation for race. And imagine an organization with a specific cult...ural background in their name. And now imagine that group fighting for the right of individuals who changed their race because they didn't feel right in their skin and became another race. Or pretended to be that race once in college. Or kinda wants to be that race, but doesn't want to give up their white privilege. Or groups all cultural backgrounds into one race and acts as if their struggle is the same. That's how the NCLR's use of Lesbian in their name feels to me. That strange.

    Lucy Moore ‎@Lm - A lot of trans women are lesbian, and there are lesbians who are partnered with trans people/bisexual women. I think NCLR has every right to advocate for BTQ people.

    Tara Baxagocsy ‎@Lucy, yes, but that makes them HRC or AFER, so their name should accurately reflect their work, no?

    Lucy Moore ‎@Tara Good point, but bisexual women and trans women face many of the same gender and sexuality-specific issues as lesbians.

    Tara Baxagocsy I would heartily beg to differ. Lesbians never get to live with hetero privilege whereas the groups you mentioned absolutely do.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Lucy Moore
    ‎1. How do lesbian trans women have hetero privilege? While they might have had it at one point, they lose it once they begin transitioning. (And trans women are women, BTW.)
    2. Bisexuals still face the same challenges as exclusively gay/les...bian people. If a bisexual woman is partnered with a woman, a homophobic society won't care if she's also attracted to men. They'll just see a woman dating a woman.

    Tara Baxagocsy I began to respond at length, but I feel like it's getting off topic. I maintain that the groups you mentioned know hetero privilege and that they do not own the same experiences or struggles that lesbians do. Just as I would not be able to own the experience and struggles of someone of another culture if I chose to live that way from here on out OR if I chose to live that way for a bit but then went back to living with white privilege. It's nowhere near the same.

    Amy Keefe Lewis It's really pretty simple. If you're fighting for LGBTIQ rights, then why not use a name that shows that? Why have you kept the name you have when it's so misleading?

    Amy Keefe Lewis
    Kate used the word "intertwined" twice in her introductory post to bolster her position. And that would be a concept and position that the NGLTF could stand proudly behind. But by claiming the mantel of a "lesbian" organization you, Kate, a...re implying a very specific mandate - and it's one you do not adhere to. Do all your donors and supporters believe that every decision you make is first and foremost considered through the lens of lesbian rights? If any of your donors or supporters doesn't realize what you actually do - because you have mislead them by using the name you do - you are not doing an honorable thing.

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  62. Stacy Bowring I have not looked into exactly what this organization has been doing and how it spends it's money, but where do you draw the line? Should they not have backed the repeal of DADT because it would benefit gay men too? Should they have just tried to get the final vote amended to only give lesbians the right to serve, and no other group? Should they not have discussed it at all because it didn't deal with just lesbians?

    No Anodyne Any time you have to start a comment with "I have not looked into..." pretty much answers your own question. Please do some research and you will see why there is an issue that needs to be discussed.

    No Anodyne
    You can fight any battles you want to fight, but calling yourself a "lesbian" organization - the word is right there in your name and there are no others - implies that those people are who you are working for exclusively. The NAACP does no...t spend their donors' dollars fighting for the rights of white people and their name makes that perfectly clear. PETA? Animals is their cause, they don't concern themselves with abused children - it's right there in their name and people donating money and time understand exactly what the mission is. If you don't intend to mislead people, why have you not changed your name to reflect exactly what you do and who you represent? You were one of the first organizations that I "liked" on Facebook. I watched your posts for any indication that my interests and rights were foremost in your minds and found that you're just another generic gay group. There are almost no national groups whose interest it is to fight for the unique issues that lesbians face. You are misleading many people by using the name you use. If you want to work across the entire GLBTQI spectrum, then that should be reflected in your name. Anything else is lying. It's that simple.

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  63. Gallus Mag Those of you who have posted that it is somehow "wrong" for Lesbians, or People of Color, or Women to have their own advocacy groups should really be ashamed of yourselves.

    Gallus Mag This is no longer a Lesbian advocacy group and should stop misrepresenting itself.

    Zoe Kincaid
    While it is true that there are transsexual lesbians like myself, I still fail to see where that support for female-to-males, gay males, or bisexuals comes from in an organization with a very unsuitable name for such. You are not somehow do...ing me any favors by focusing on any of those groups instead of lesbians. The 'trickle down' or, "We're all intertwined!" nonsense is what gay men have been leading lesbians and transsexuals on with for years and years now. "Help us and you'll help yourselves!" Unsurprisingly enough, it doesn't work that way.

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  64. Tara Baxagocsy
    Someone asked exactly what percentage of their services/energy go to female lesbian issues, but NCLR has not responded. Most liberal organizations backed the repeal of DADT. Most liberal organizations support gay marriage rights. I get e...mails from EQCA, AFER, HRC, MOVEON.ORG, CHANGE, etc., all talking about and backing these issues. In fact, my Facebook stream is filled with organizations all sharing the same links. Rarely, is one specific to lesbians. That's what I was hoping to get from this "Lesbian" organization. What is the experience of lesbians serving in the military? Why aren't lesbians (during discussions surrounding DADT) talking about how 1/3 of all women soldiers are sexually assaulted by male soldiers and suffer from severe PTSD? Noone is sharing a link to that story. Instead, the focus is on fighting to do everything straight people get to do. Our culture is diluted and our history is being absorbed by the GBTIQ alphabet soup that used to be our identity. What we are asking is, what percentage of your work is specifically for lesbians and if your vision includes the rights of everyone claiming "queer", why not change your name so that it isn't so misleading?

    Gallus Mag Looking forward to the NCLR portion of this "dialogue" and responses to issues raised.

    Lm Baker Lucy, MEN cannot be lesbians period!

    Lm Baker Still waiting for the numbers regarding where and how much has/is going towards lesbians.

    ReplyDelete
  65. I posted this, hope it doesn't get removed:

    "I am not even a lesbian, but from a purely logical point you are NOT the national center for LESBIAN rights, you are the National Center for lGBT rights. Stop using lesbians to promote other separate issues. Lesbians are the weakest letter of this nonsensical soup and your misinformative exploiting label isn't doing any favour."

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  66. Please report the NCLR page in Facebook as attacking a sexual orientation group (the attack lesbians but using a lesbian umbrella name to cover activities for straight-FTM- males).

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  67. Is the IRS http://www.irs.gov/charities/index.html aware of it ?

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  68. I'm not going to report their goddamn facebook page like some testosteroidal censoring FTM. That is a stupid suggestion.

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  69. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME POST THIS?????

    I asked last night, but no one has helped. I'm having trouble posting. Please post this for me. Thanks! Mac




    Don't forget why this discussion started, it's thanks to Dirty White Boi - Dirt, the butch lesbian blogger. Read everything, including, all our comments, to find out why we're pissed, and why we won't stand for an organization that helps ga...ys, bis and trannies.

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/nclr-aka-transgay-male-rights-org-part.html

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/kate-kendell-nclr-email.html

    Our position is clear in our comments. Lesbian issues only, and not anything that promotes men, or patriarchial society, like marriage.

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  70. I think the chart should just focus on where the donations go. Anything which promotes women's rights can go on the X axis. Anything which promotes LGBT rights can go on the Y axis.

    If the organization spent all of its donations on lesbian-specific work, then it would be 100% on both X and Y. If the organization spent all of its donations on salaries, then it would be 0%.

    It looks like the NC(L)R spends a lot of its money on salaries and overhead and a lot of the remainder on GBT rights, too little on lesbian rights, and too little on women's rights in general.

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  71. "It looks like the NC(L)R spends a lot of its money on salaries and overhead and a lot of the remainder on GBT rights, too little on lesbian rights, and too little on women's rights in general."

    Yes deceptive and shocking and the salariees are pretty high compared to the market average. This .org is for its board profit only :(

    ReplyDelete
  72. "Kate Kendell gets a salary of $175,000 a year, and it's budget is a couple of million."

    In other words, one person's salary eats up nearly ten percent of what is already a very small operating budget. (2M really is a shoestring budget for anything that claims to be a national organization.) There are almost certainly other full-time administrative staff, with salaries in the high five figure range, or perhaps the low 100s. Then there's whatever rent they pay for their offices in downtown SF, and fundraising/publicity expenses.

    That doesn't leave much in the coffers for defending lesbian rights, or queer alphabet soup rights, for that matter. If these people were serious, they would base their operations in a less expensive part of the country, and scale back the salaries of their full-time staff accordingly. Of course, that wouldn't be as much fun.

    ReplyDelete
  73. seen on their FB page:

    "The National Center for Lesbian Rights
    We appreciate that there are differing perspectives and value the diversity of the views expressed here. NCLR’s commitment to work on behalf of the entire community was instilled at our founding. NCLR was founded 34 years ago as the “Lesbia...n Rights Project” by Donna Hitchens, who later became a Judge on the San Francisco Superior Court and who recently retired from the bench. From the very beginning lesbian issues were prioritized, even as the Project did work on behalf of the entire community knowing that any victories which diminished homophobia or dismantled gender stereotypes and sexism would help lesbians. That philosophy and approach is what animates all of our work to this day. Our overarching End Goal is that “all lesbians live fully and freely.” That philosophy and approach is what animates all of our work still. Over the past 34 years we have completely altered the landscape for lesbians, especially in the area of family law, which continues to be a major focus of our work. Our entire community, and lesbians particularly, enjoy a greater measure of legal protection and recognition because of our work. We believe the rights of lesbians are more likely to be secured in a culture where oppression based on sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender non-conformity is eliminated. Being a lesbian IS gender non-conformity; in this culture we are not the “right” kinds of women. We understand it is a sacred trust to work on behalf of our community and we take that responsibility very seriously and always will. —Kate Kendell, NCLR Executive Director"

    Kate stop smoking pot or being high on coke...

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  74. "Emily Doskow
    As current co-chair of NCLR's Board and as a proud member and supporter for 25 years, I encourage anyone who's concerned about the scope of the work NCLR does to look at the organization's programs and the legal case docket, both of which a...re described in detail on the website. These show an organization that supports and protects the rights of lesbians in so many ways--and as its primary mission--while also standing firm for social justice for everyone, a value the organization has held since its inception. Instead of arguing about NCLR's name, I hope we can all turn our attention to continuing the work of creating a world where all lesbians--and all people--live fully and freely"

    Translation: I want the f* money for my virtual activities supposed to be for lesbian ;)

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  75. Anon@504pp

    That double speak is nothing more than a patting the lesbians on our little heads so this org can continue taking our money, our time and our name and farm it all out to QUEERS!

    Either put the fucking L back in lesbian or remove the fucking L for lesbian to reflect the orgs current strong queer/trans policies/interests.

    dirt

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  76. The vast majority of NCLR advocacy and resources are dedicated to men. The name is misrepresentative and exploitative. Let's write to founder Donna Hitchens and see if she'd care to make a public comment on the matter. Let's message journalists and see if they might be interested in reporting the issue. Let's message every news venue and blog and public forum where the National Center for "Lesbian" Rights is mentioned. Let's write to the corporate donors as listed in the NCLR annual report and express our outrage. Let's tell every Lesbian, and lesbian ally that the NCLR is misrepresenting itself and exploiting lesbians to advocate for men.

    ReplyDelete
  77. GM or anyone else, if you wanna help me put together places to email to I will post the list here and see if we can light some flames under some lesbian butts!

    dirt

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  78. HEY BLUE TRAVELER!!!

    Did you really put up the post? Just checked. Can't find it?



    This is what I tried to post. Will someone else try to post for me?

    Don't forget why this discussion started, it's thanks to Dirty White Boi - Dirt, the butch lesbian blogger. Read everything, including, all our comments, to find out why we're pissed, and why we won't stand for an organization that helps ga...ys, bis and trannies.

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/nclr-aka-transgay-male-rights-org-part.html

    http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2011/01/kate-kendell-nclr-email.html

    Our position is clear in our comments. Lesbian issues only, and not anything that promotes men, or patriarchial society, like marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  79. @ Anonymous 10:07 pm, no she isn't, ya coward.

    how hard is it for people to grasp that a national center for lesbian rights should only serve lesbians? just as a charity funding lung cancer research, or working to end animal abuse, wouldn't be expected to spend all its time and resources on breast cancer research or work towards ending child abuse. all are important causes, of course.

    But for every single lesbian group, there are hundreds (1000s?) of "LGBT" groups that hardly even make any effort to include lesbians or women in general at all.. and that is problematic

    how is pointing that out so horrific to you that you'd call someone a "sack full of shit"?

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  80. "how is pointing that out so horrific to you that you'd call someone a "sack full of shit"?"

    ummm maybe because they know that this is a smokescreen and the real issue is they include Transmen and Transwomen. maybe they know that what really set this off was the positive mention of a transwoman.

    this has nothing to do with lesbians and everything to do with the continued hatred of the transgendered community.

    the truth is.. the lesbians in this room and all lesbians are being used by the author of this blog to further their agenda of transphobia

    ReplyDelete
  81. Kate Kendell=Aunt Tomesina

    ReplyDelete
  82. "the real issue is they include Transmen"

    YOU ARE NOT A LESBIAN. WHY SHOULD A LESBIAN CENTER INCLUDE YOU ??????

    ReplyDelete
  83. "this has nothing to do with lesbians and everything to do with the continued hatred of the transgendered community."

    Why does a Lesbian Center have "nothing to do" with Lesbians????

    Why the hell should a Lesbian fundraiser fund transsexuals? And before you say some transexuals are ex-lesbians and some transsexuals consider themselves to be lesbians- WHO CARES???
    Some Lesbians are diabetic! Some are partnered with diabetics! Should a Lesbian Fundraiser give most of its money to diabetics? NO.
    Some Lesbians play chess. Should most of the money go to chess? NOOOOO.

    STOP thinking your transsexual needs are MORE IMPORTANT than lesbians! You are sexist and homophobic and misogynist! HOW DARE YOU! Are you racist too? You need to seriously take a look at yourself and your role in oppressing Lesbians and Women.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Kate Kendell=Aunt Tomesina

    January 9, 2011 2:47 AM"

    this says it best. racist and discriminatory..

    ReplyDelete
  85. "the real issue is they include Transmen"

    "YOU ARE NOT A LESBIAN. WHY SHOULD A LESBIAN CENTER INCLUDE YOU ??????"

    Yes same applies for gay males activities funded by the NCLR. When a center do fundraising for a clear audience like "lesbians", why do they use then the money for other purposes? Imagine you go to a party called "NCLR funding party" at your local bar. You are more likely to spend $$$ in beers and other stuff because it is for lesbians and you are a lesbian. Now imagine that the party was branded "a FTM transgender funding party" or a "gay males funding party", maybe you will attend because you may have FTM friends or gay males friends but as a lesbian or a woman, you may give less money than at a lesbian party for NCLR".
    The scam is here: some lesbians or women who think that FTM removing boobs are patriarchy foe are in fact funding pro-FTM activities while they thought they were funding pro-women or pro-lesbian activities, totally the opposite.

    It is like going to a charity event for lung cancer, giving your money for it and then learn a few months later, the money served to promote tobacco companies...

    Am I the only one pissed off or shocked ?

    ReplyDelete
  86. "the truth is.. the lesbians in this room and all lesbians are being used by the author of this blog to further their agenda of transphobia"

    Wrong: I am married to a transguy, used to call myself a lesbian (he used to call himself a dyke in the past too).
    My husband and I are just surprised and we are concerned that this scandal may not be good at all for the trans FTM community.
    My husband is an activist in some trans oriented org and he told me that if he and his pals were using the money they raise for other purposes than transmales activities, "all the bros will be upset and will tell it".

    ReplyDelete
  87. "Being a lesbian IS gender non-conformity" —Kate Kendell, NCLR Executive Director

    ReplyDelete
  88. ["Being a lesbian IS gender non-conformity" —Kate Kendell, NCLR Executive Director]

    Not really. It is just a sexual orientation. Some lesbians are gender non-conformists, but hardly all. She seems rather clueless.

    ReplyDelete
  89. @Hex,

    Depends on your school of lesbian thought, she could be basing her feelings on a Wittigian model, so in that case it makes sense.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete
  90. That's very true, Dirt -- I can imagine the situation does change, depending on how you are looking at it. Thanks for that response, I'll look into that later.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Mac, I posted your post already. I am writing as Serena M.

    ReplyDelete
  92. WHAT organizations support your/our Lesbian centered vision? We've come up with NONE so far that work tirelessly primarily or exclusively BY AND FOR Lesbians only!
    Here is my response to them on that Facebook page:
    "January 11 at 7:35am Tara, and Gallus Mag, you give me hope. I have seen over and over again where NCLR only gives it's attentions to the most high profile cases, lesbians with children ignoring those of us who choose not to have children or procreate or adopt.... While I do appreciate all the marriage equality work NCLR has done, and was in the courtroom for Shannon Minter's arguement for us, and many more Lesbians married than gay men or anybody else in the queer community, and also handsome Butch Lesbian Therese Stuart also argued for us both times(SF assistant DA), we won in 2008, and again in this current case....the arguements were compelling against the rightwing, I DO appreciate NCLR for that, so I could continue to be married to my Lesbian spouse.....

    However, as ordinary OUT Butch Lesbians, we've both been terribly discriminated against in our jobs and BOTH of us throughout the years have desparately called NCLR to advocate for us and they simply could not be bothered. They also have a Transgender Law Center directly under their purview, and it seems that transgender cases have become frankly more important than Lesbian cases. I do not recognize born males as Lesbians. They are socialized as men, and take privileges for themselves and treat Lesbians once they come into our communities in the same manner they treated their former wives and girlfriends. It also saddens me how many Butch Lesbians are
    transitioning right and left as the culture becomes more conservative and more 'queerified' that the bite has gone out of Lesbian culture and into Trans and gay male culture.....thus disappearing our most ovvious handsome Butch Lesbians for the passing that happens through transition. A very small handful might be FTM, but for most it's a dangerous, dangerous trend, and there are those who regret what they've done, but it is highly hidden by the trans movement. Many Butches are being pressured to transition, and I hear of them talk of it frequently. Our Lesbian and women only spaces are being erased at an alarming rate to cater to those who consider themselves 'male'. But how 'male' can you be if you INSIST on staying in Lesbian/women's spaces and thus coopting them? Or is part of NCLR's agenda to erase our sacred women only and Lesbian only spaces too through trans lawsuits against us, and against women's colleges?(When those who become FTM INSIST on staying in a women only college, or a 51 male who decides he's now 'a woman' wants to stay in a female only dorm with those who are in their teens or early 20's).

    I'd like to see NCLR concentrate and focus first and foremost on ALL Lesbians rights and especially for us Butches as well, and on the job rights particularly. Whether it be the myriads of Lesbian tradeswomen who face discrimination everyday, Butches, ect.....or other fields..
    BEFORE giving other communities the preferred attention.

    Like I mentioned elsewhere, a butch dyke won a case in San Francisco against Harley Davidson because she considered herself 'transgender', and got the support of your and other groups...but an ordinary Lesbian won't get your attention if she does NOT consider herself transgender or transsexual.

    There are those of us who are Female Identified Butch Lesbians wanting to counter this self hatred so many young butch/masculine females have against their bodies and selves because of sexism, and we are creating OUR OWN Butch Lesbian positive organizations and groups to counter these negative trends and messages...we are RISING!
    -FeistyAmazon

    ReplyDelete

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