Friday, January 14, 2011

Friday's Poll Question

What has caused the most devastation to the Lesbian Community?

 Use this space to discuss today's poll question.

Comments are open...



  1. Dirt,

    The alphabet soup since the 90's but mtfs started the assault.

  2. I have voted FTM but not because I don't like FTM but because they are not man enough to do their own stuff instead of invading our spaces and using our budget and non profit and student org for them.

  3. I would say that FTMism has caused the most devastation, especially for the younger women in our communities. Young teens who are just starting to explore their identities are immediately confronted with the trans trend. If the young women are lesbian, they don't have a strong dyke community to go to any more. They have the LGBTIQ places and/or they have all the FTM bros and dudes encouraging them to jump on the trans-wagon. (Young teens who are straight or bi also are being exposed at an early age to the option of a trans identity, especially if they are into the anime/hipster stuff.)

    Lesbians of all ages looking for community and support find websites and groups like Butch/ which prominently include FTMs. In fact, the FTM threads on these boards are often the most popular. A newcomer to these groups would think that being an FTM or dating one is a regular, everyday part of life in the lesbian community. It has become normalized.

    We have watched a large number of dykes go the FTM route. Some of them were our writers, artists, musicians, and performers- creators of our culture. This has siphoned energy out of our dyke culture and caused a great deal of discord and confusion for many women.

    I think the LGBTIQ thing is also a problem. It lumps together groups who are very different and don't share the same interests. I suspect it was partially somebody's bright idea about how to gain more political power or clout through "unity". It also evolved with the whole queer theory thing where a lot of straight, kinky hipsters wanted to ID as "queer" because they thought it was cool and transgressive. The most insidious aspect about LBGTIQ, I think, is that words are what we think with, even when the words are acronyms.

  4. "FTM's are FTM's, so blaming the loss of the lesbian community on them is rubbish. If they were actually lesbians, they still would be lesbians. "

    Why on earth do FTM invade lesbians spaces, lesbians non profit, use lesbians money for FTM? FTM are a viral disease.

  5. Anon@4:19,

    FtM's are a product of internalizing all the female hatred plaguing the world. I understand your feelings, but I dont think we're going to help females to stop transitioning and love themselves by hating female transitioners.

    Again no criticism of your feelings, just saying we need to be constructive with our strong lesbian emotions.


  6. Anon@7:35. If you can't name the problem, you can't solve it. Sometimes that involves placing blame on someone or something. Calling that "playing the blame game" is a way of shutting people up when they voice an unpopular opinion. I've noticed that it's usually women and minorities who are accused of "playing the blame game."

  7. sounds like female blaming here.

  8. If the comments seem out of sorts I have had to delete some comments made by a white hetero male privileged man.


  9. I think there were some critical errors that lesbian communities made that set them up for extinction. Error 1, going the "non-profit" route thus killing off grass roots control of organizations and tactics. The AIDS epidemic siphoned off thousands of lesbians who suddenly threw in with gay men, ignoring their own community needs, and also lesbian leaders selling out to the men in the AIDS epidemic to get the CEO spots at those non-profits. Lesbian businesses were not built up enough, and later failed. Then along came trans and the 90s, and that pretty much wiped out visible proud lesbian communities that were easily accessible to younger women. The old women just had it with the gang, and they cut off and formed OLEC which does not allow any lesbians under 60 from attending meetings etc. Lesbians stopped reading, stopped getting educated, didn't give a damn about the lesbian classics... and again sold out to every damn group EXCEPT lesbians. The bottom line, is that lesbians stopped being 100% lesbian centered, and our energy got stolen by men transwomen gay guys... GLBT "centers" with mega million budgets, and few lesbian programs. The poor women became "clients" while upper class lesbians became donors at those nauseating fundraisers... Oh, and the usual suspects---alcohol, drugs... Patriarchy is always out there inventing new techniques to get lesbians to stop being 100% lesbian supporting... that is always the bottom line!!

  10. Personally, I think it was a mistake for lesbian activists in the seventies and eighties to associate being a lesbian with a whole laundry list of things that have nothing to do with sexual orientation. If you weren't on board with the political and cultural stuff (and by political, I don't just mean supporting gay rights), there was no place for you in the existing lesbian community.

    I've said this here before, but I'll say it again -- I'm convinced that that made the queer movement attractive to a lot of women who would otherwise have preferred to devote their energies to specifically lesbian causes.

  11. Shaming. Shaming those of us who are LeatherDykes, thus the Lesbian Sex Wars...shaming those who thought differently, were a little too Butch or too high Femme(but my concern of course are the Butches, high Femmes still get privilege), and the lie told to Butches "You just want to be a man", the death of our Lesbian businesses and bookstores, the elimination of our women only events AS women only events, allowing men and others in, MTF's attempting from the get-go to coopt our culture, our needs, and our sympathies while having been raised male and treating us in the same sexist ways they treated their hetero wives and girlfriends, then claiming a 'Lesbian' identity, and WE ALLOWED THEM TO DO IT, and by allowing them in, that brought more legitimacy to those who transitioned to FTM, instead of moving into the gay men's or even straight/bi men's communities or mixed more hetero communities like
    FTM's used to do, because they wanted to be seen as MALE, allowing them to stick around cuz 'they used to be a lesbian' and still are dating 'lesbians' or lesbians had their lovers transition and did not want to leave either the relationship or the community, so thusly the community should be FORCED to accomodate them.

    Another thing was the whole arguement of the 'boychild' issue, Lesbians began getting artificially inseminated, and 80% of babies born that way ended up male....rather than the 'natural' method where there's a 50/50 chance of either sex. Because now they identify with motherhood which legitimizes them in a way one is not when one does NOT have children, they wanted to bring their boychildren EVERYWHERE including into Lesbian spaces because we should be forced to 'accomodate' them now that they have chosen to be mothers....this is what childcare used to be for, so the women could have their own times and spaces SEPARATE from their children and role as Mother..and it gives no validation to little girls to have special time with other females/women only(while it's still o.k. for boys to go with Dads and other males only to fishing and hunting excursions).

    It did not start just with the trans...all the trends above were part of why there were those Lesbians, myself included at times, who identified with other more accepting sectors of the commmunity, and even if we had differences, we should have allowed ALL bio-female Lesbians access to Lesbian only/woman centered spaces and been a bit more tolerant with each other, but also NOT assume that it is ok to bring males along(like I see every year at the Dyke March, what with FTM's, and bisexual women's boyfriends forcing their way marching along with the Dykes/women, and even gay boys marching when they don't belong, because Dolores Park isn't far from the Castro, and like always, males feel entitled).

    If we fought this entitlement from day one....whether you're bringing along your male baby, male lover(if bi), FTM, or even late transition MTF's, or gay male friends, all these things undermine Lesbian community and spaces.

    If we better supported ALL of our Lesbian businesses, and if they were struggling bought them out and KEPT THEM in Lesbian hands, bought buildings with Lesbian money so we could OWN our resources rather than rent them where a landlord could jack rents sky high, especially on commercial businesses, if we REALLY FOUGHT For keeping our women's/lesbian bookstores open, our events, our safe havens, and guarded them in the way that gay men guard theirs(though because they're men they have way more money to work with), we'd still have a viable community and would have the collective power to counter some of the trends going on today...