Change Your World-NOT your Body

Monday, December 13, 2010

Questions for Dirt, from a Reader


A reader emailed me some questions recently, given I regularly get asked several of them in comments, I'll answer them here in public.

1. Why does your blog revolve mostly around transgender issues? What is your motivation to be so vocal about this? My blog revolves around misogyny more than anything and how misogyny informs transition notions and Butch shame which can lead some to transition. And because queer/trans theory spawned by postmodernism/antiessentialism have nearly leveled the Butch/Femme community utilizing silencing techniques created by patriarchy, someone must stand up proud and say NO and I am that Butch.

2. Being a proud butch woman, why is it that you refer to yourself as "boi" and why is your picture at the top of your blog depicting a very male appearing chest if you are proud to be female bodied? (I'm not trying to be rude at all, I'm genuinely curious.) I've never referred to myself as "boi". The reason its in my nick/email is because 10+ years ago before gay.com had picture profiles, many Butches who chatted at the butch/femme chat room there would use "boi" to differentiate themselves from Femmes. My g/f at the time despised the term, so when we broke up a few years later and I was looking for a new email nick because my email/nick was closely associated with hers. On the way to work, Foreigner's Dirtywhiteboy song came on the radio and it hit me "dirtywhiteBOI"! Given my ex and I had to communicate through email over a house we owned together, using "dirtywhiteboi" was born to piss my ex off. I have kept it because I was quickly called "dirt" after using it for just a short time and I and other now generally refer to me as "dirt".  Regarding the pic, as a grown woman I dont see where the picture appears "male". My skin is much too smooth and my shape much too feminine. Most folks arent used to seeing pictures of strong, fit women, hence the leap to male. Take that same shot of any female swimmer, weight lifter or reasonably fit woman, and they would closely resemble mine.

3. Do you think, had you been born in the 90's and had grown up in this day and age, that you would think differently on the subject and feel more pressured to transition based on the "butch body shame/dysphoria" you describe? Had someone approached me after experiencing one menstrual cycle (age 13) and said this drug (T) would stop you from experiencing periods, but could likely cause you to go bald, develop cancer and perhaps be dead after taking it for a decade or so, I would have said "where do I sign up". Had I been approached after the age of 20, which was around the time I realized how unique I was as a Butch woman and how unique my mind was, I wouldnt have thought once about it, despite still having Butch Shame issues and some dysphoria issues. I never got into drugs of any kind, even pot, because I would never risk altering my awesome brain. Knowing that (T) does physiologically alter the brain and how it functions, would have scared the hell out of me. I'm me to the point that no one alive could EVER be me!

4. Do you think its possible at all to be genuinely transgender/transsexual and not part of the trend, or do you honestly believe it's a diagnosis purely made up by the "male medical machine?" No. Transgender/sexual-ism was created to eradicate homosexuality. Any gay or lesbian person who supports this barbaric treatment, supports the eradication of gays and lesbians. Even though many who seek transition are heterosexual, particularly males and now particularly trans trenders, society, including doctors, still believe this is an issues that affects gays and lesbians primarily.

5. Did you ever consider transition as an option for yourself at any point in your life? Or was that never an issue for you? No. It would have to have been an option when I was a child, therefore immature and ignorant, which it wasnt. Thank god!

dirt
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32 comments:

  1. Im 45 and not so much today but in the 90's it was common for people to refer to some butches or themselves as boi. The spelling was not 'boy' because the women were not trying to be a boy or be seen as a boy but it seemed to be used as a descriptor for someone who was somewhere in between tomboy and butch or maybe a replacement for "butch" during the years when "butch" seemed too harsh to refer to someone as because of the way society made us ashamed to identify as such. Or when "butch" women started to realize that they were falling out of favor to the "lipstick lesbians" who only wanted to date others like themselves. It seems that for a long time "butch" conjured a negative image and I wonder how older lesbians(or younger) see the word now as opposed to decades before. Its funny how the terms we use to describe ourselves and their meanings change with the times. It might be an interesting topic to have everyone describe what they think of and what mental image they see (then and now) when they hear the word butch, dyke, boi, lipstick lesbian, lesbian sporty dyke or any of the other words we have used to describe ourselves. I dont know why but even today when I use the word lesbian, I feel like I'm saying it with a little lisp or pursed lips like it is an antiquated term and only whispered in small circles while outing someone behind their back if that makes any sense. I generally use the term gay to describe myself. The problem with using gay is that it lumps gay men and lesbians together but since we seem to usually say "gay man" when describing a male, I find it comfortable to use "gay woman" when describing myself. I have never attached any other qualifier to that.

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  2. Thanks, db; I have more or less the same reaction to those terms. I think it's kind of bizarre that some of the more hostile commenters here aren't aware how common the word boi was for a while among gay women. They're so into the whole queer/gender studies thing, but don't recognize slang that was widespread when all that started. I suppose they weren't born then -- but neither was I when "beatnik" was current slang, and I still know what the word means.

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  3. Interesting!! Thanks for posting the Q/A; I hope you get better soon if you haven't already (I think you mentioned being sick in an earlier post/comment, sorry if I'm wrong)

    Personally I'm against transitioning but believe that there is such a thing as transgender. I think that the true way to fix that is to get rid of what gender is in the first place; because I've never seen it help anyone at all, just create messes like a huge plethora of sexual orientations needing different names / harassment over those sexual orientations / situations where females are put down just for their vaginas and the attributes we falsely attach to them [same with men and their penises, intersex people with the variation of things they've got...but to a lesser extent].

    Basically I think that our wants are the same; a world where people could be free to just be who they are without wanting to change their genitalia. We just want to go about it different ways(?)

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  4. Sorry for the double-comment; but this really did get me thinking [as your blog always does] as far as my ideas about transgenders; homosexuals and the world.

    I believe that if a time could come where 'it's a girl' and 'it's a boy' weren't the first thing someone heard when their child was born, the world would be a much better place. You never would have had to endure shame as a butch woman; because you'd just be a strong, awesome person who had a vagina. You'd be yourself without any labels that could make people feel unreasonably opposed to you...you know?

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  5. Here's another question. I've noticed you like to exclude the tough ones that I ask you. So why don't you have some guts and post this one, let me see an answer.

    Are you aware that the same 'lesbian feminists' you pal around with are the same brand of 'lesbian feminists' who excluded butch lesbians as male-identified not too long ago?

    In fact, they were suggesting that being butch perpetuated gender roles and patriarchy, as well as your being misogynistic enough to exclude from their brand of feminism. Sounds like somebody we know, doesn't it?

    Feel free to look that up, and you'll learn that I'm right. How quickly you forget, Dirt. Perhaps you should look into who your real enemies have been.

    Also, the first documented transsexual was in BCE times. Transgender people were documented for hundreds of years before that.

    Sorry, but your answer to question 4 is patently and demonstrably false. We have always been around, and will always be around. As you can see, homosexuality is still surviving just fine.

    You yourself would be considered transgender for being butch under the law as well as lesbian. That is, laws protecting lesbians alone would not necessarily protect you... something that you are all too quick to neglect.

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  6. You say that transgender ideology was created to eradicate homosexuality. What about transgendered people who still identify as gay/lesbian/queer? Many transmen date men and many transwomen date women.

    And for the record, as a 20-something yr old lesbian and as a huge ally for the trans-community I do know the history of the word "boi."

    Also, I think it's really important for the queer community to be united. I stopped going places that were specifically only for lesbians, not because I have a problem with it but because I wanted to be with the whole community. What I’ve learned is that there is a lot of room for gender variance in most queer communities (at least here in new york) whether you're a butch women, gender queer, or trans. Everyone has their preference. Being around transgendered people has never made me, as a butch woman, feel that I have to transition. I am comfortable with my gender identity. I did, as everyone should, question it and when I came up for air I really learned a lot about how I feel about my gender, what kind of sex I like to have and what makes me happy.
    And you know, despite your disagreement with trans-issues, your blog is pretty disrespectful towards individuals with little room for actual conversation. I've been reading for weeks now wanting to comment, and seeing how you react to negative comments.
    The thing is, gender and sexuality are fluid and not the same for everyone. Look at eating disorder issues, for instance. A lot of feminist discourse revolving around eating disorders blames misogyny and the media portrayal of women. This is a large part of the reasoning for sure, but so is a lot of other things such as a need for control and dealing with masochism. Look at the sex wars and anti-porn feminists who believed that porn was disrespectful to women when clearly they weren’t making or watching the right kind of porn. Because there are plenty of women who enjoy all sorts of porn, and they should be allowed to enjoy it just as much as men. My point is, there a lot of generalizations, assumptions, accusations and close-mindedness that you use here. It's really upsetting to see someone who clearly knows what it's like to struggle for acceptance not trying to understand an entire community.

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  7. a lot of ftm youtubers have addressed the trans trend, and i find it interesting how it seem to be "everyone else" and not them. it's not likely that someone would admit to doing something for any other reason than it being "genuine" and "just how they feel" even if they aren't actually aware of why they're doing what they're doing.

    and unforunately, it's too late for most of them. there is no such thing as top surgery that "omg looks great dude!!!"

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  8. Thanks for this blog. I also wondered if you'd ever identified as transgendered at any point.

    An honest question though -- no two people are created exactly alike, and by the same token everyone has different senses of aesthetics. My body shape might be someone's ideal, but to me it may seem disproportionate or undesirable. Since people change their appearance constantly throughout their lives, would you consider hormones taken for the sake of building muscle (or softening skin, for instance, in estrogen's case) to be a valid "body modification," or something problematic?

    Say, for instance, that you could completely divorce the hormones testosterone and estrogen from the concept that these "make" you male or female (which is a fallacy.) Would it still be problematic to take male hormones (if you happened to be a woman who simply wanted to be *very* muscular), or would it just be another modification, like a tattoo?

    Genuinely curious; it's something I'm trying to work out in my own head. Personally never taken any hormones and never intend to do so.

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  9. Anon@11:23pm

    As I said, I am a LESBIAN, therefore not part of the "queer" community and as a WOMAN I nor any woman are NOT "gender variant".

    Seems you like most queer/trans minded individuals need to stop being so "narrow" yourselves and expand your straight jacketed ideas about just what a female is and all she can be.

    Blowing a part, breaking through the confines patriarchy/society has gated off for females, doesnt make you "gender variant" it sets you free as a natural born female.

    dirt

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  10. Soma,

    I've only ever ID'd as female, woman, Butch, lesbian.

    Bodies are crafty things, providing they are reasonably healthy, they come naturally with everything needed to build muscle. Some build muscle easier than others due to genetics, but no body no matter the age wont build muscle with a little work.

    If there is something you are specifically interested in building, feel free to ask, I'm also very versed in muscle building/exercise.

    dirt

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  11. Hex hun, I only "pal" around with a handful of Femme lesbians (lesbians attracted to Butches), my gay brother, three nieces and my aunt, my gay best friend, my straight male best friend since 3rd grade, a handful of straight male relatives and a handful of late teen early twenty something boys who are my nieces step son's friends who are constantly begging me to go out with them because they think I'm the coolest/funniest thing on the planet.

    And until the 20th century when medical science created trans people, trans didnt exist. Men and women who did not and/or could not submit to the gender status quo existed, as we exist today, but that has ZERO to do with "trans".

    Hope that answers your questions.

    dirt

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  12. Why let hetero white biological males like Hexy post here trying to "edumacate" women, lesbians, and butches on our history? He is clearly deluded ill-informed and has nothing to offer to the conversation.

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  13. Anon,

    The man had a simple question and some seriously disordered ideal of history, I merely answered the question and corrected his ignorance.

    He regularly comments, I regularly delete most of his comments as this space is clearly woman/lesbiancentric.

    dirt

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  14. Thanks for answering my question, Dirt. I appreciate the offer for advice but I've got a good strength-training workout and am doing pretty well with it, I think (no hormones needed either!)

    On my own, I've come to realize that people who don't fit "conventional" behavior models for their particular gender are mocked and abused -- this is a fact. However, to jump to the conclusion that very masculine women are "really" men and very feminine men are "really" women is to basically put these people from one box into another -- worse, because it implies that behavior defines your gender. And to have a very feminine person with XY chromosomes classified as the "same thing" as a very butch-identified XX individual makes no sense -- they have nothing in common whatsoever, except that for the sake of political correctness we would call them both "women."

    I think we need to abolish the notion that behavior is in any way tied to one's genitalia or chromosomes. As it is, we're still pressuring people to conform to models of "gender-appropriate" behavior, only now we allow them to choose between Model A and Model B. Do you think that doing away with the idea of gendered behavior would be what's needed, or do you disagree?

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  15. I am old enough to remember some of the sex-police type of "radical lesbians" that Hexy is referring to. Yes, there were some of these individuals who thought butches were politically incorrect back in the 70's or 80's. Many of them were straight women from the radical left who became lesbian for political reasons and their interpretation of feminism. Personally, I thought most of these types were a big pain in the butt. A lot of us didn't want to listen to their brand of bullshit. Most of them aren't around any more, because they went back to being straight.

    Unfortunately, while they were around, they dominated the college dyke scene, which is what made me flee to the bar dyke scene at the time, where people were friendlier and more real. Even though I really didn't feel like I fit in either place. Later on there were more positive dyke spaces outside of the bars.

    I knew a woman from that era who became FTM in the late 80's, who prior to "transitioning" was very butch and often assumed to be male. This person did not feel accepted by the lesbian community of the time, and also felt constantly put down by society in general. This sense of not being accepted anywhere was a big factor in why this person went the FTM route (not just my opinion, they said so.) And I think some people care more than others about what other people think of them.

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  16. @anon December 13, 2010 11:57 PM

    all the FTM youtubers are the one perpetuating transexuality as a trend, they are the ones who started it, now they are acting all innocent like its someone else's fault.no they arent trying to educate noone, most of them are itching for attention and faux celebrity status.

    Now 10 year olds are all over YT wanting to start hormones because of all these youtubers pressure. the FTM tubers are doing more harm than good in the trans community.

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  17. Just out of curiosity, since you quite often mention in your posts that T changes the brain ("Knowing that (T) does physiologically alter the brain and how it functions,[...]"): what if someone has either a high natural T level and/or a low SHBG (a substance that binds T)?
    I know quite a few ftms where that is the case. My SHBG for instance is 15 - in a normal/standard biological male is between 20 and 40 units, in a normal/standard female it is between 40 an 60. So my level is actually lower than the lowest level that is considered normal for xy-genotypes, which means that my natural relative T-levele was quite high, even before injecting synthetic T. As a matter of fact I have quite a few physical features that fall into the male spectrum: I was never able to find feminine shoes or gloves even if I had wanted them, they simply do not have them in my size. My ringfinger is longer than my indexfinger which is also more often found in males than in females.
    Anyways back to my question?: so if T DOES alter the brainstructure and some people do have high T-levels naturally, maybe there something like male and female "brainsex" after all?


    Sorry if I went a bit off-topic here, but if I read your blog correctly then you say there is no biological cause for trans? (Maybe I did misread and you consider it possible that there is a biological cause but in which case there should still be no reason to transition as transitioning is enforcing gender roles? - something I do not agree with but that would be a different discussion then...)

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  18. I liked it very much!

    Since I started reading about trans through feminist lens I can't help thinking had I been in contact with the trans community since a young age up to 13 yo I would have jumped on it (though in my country it's not anywhere as popular and available as in the US).

    I'm not butch, but I've always been very tomboy. And up to 13 I had a lot of self hatred and some dysphoria. Thankfully, loving other women and finally accepting me as not heterossexual at the age of 14 I kind of magically stopped wishing I was a boy.

    I'm 22 now and I'm so worried about girls who are just like I was but will end up feeding this misoginy. I also wished I could bring on everything you say in here at Uni and at the LGBT groups I know, but it's taken as transphobia.

    Anyway, you're doing an excellent job with your blog! Thanks!

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  19. Hi Dirt, question to you : do you plan to do an article about "life post-transition" ?

    Some explanations here: I met recently a transguy who never was in the Youtube or public talk about his transition.
    He just did what he had to do to transition and his life went smoothly...He never tried to attract attention or fame, is not narcissistic...

    When I see all the fame addicted trans-guys on youtube, I wonder what kind of life they may have once the transition years are over (T, surgeries, Id changes) and once they should just live like guys, the average Joe you see...

    I have this question in mind since I met this Tguy and since I saw also some recent video of Charles Asher (http://www.youtube.com/user/charlesasher?blend=1&ob=4#g/a), one of the most famous transguys.
    He seems to enter a new era in his life (moving, girlfriend) but in the same time, it is obvious from his videos that he is already bored to be the partner of a ciswoman, to be the average Joe, to deal with life routine, to live elsewhere than in queer SF...

    So my point is "is there a normal life after all the transition stuff" ? Can you elaborate about that as you wonderfully do usually ? What do you think ?

    It is just because I think that all those transguys on the making, if they were warned that they will have 3-4 years of fame (during the transition) but that they will also have 60 years after that of the average Joe boring life maybe they will reconsider transitioning and develop other areas in their lifes (like finding an interesting job, living in a place they like, being loved by the right partners)...

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  20. Anon,

    There is no life "post transition" and transition is a weekly/bi-weekly upkeep, it never ends unless the person has the good sense to stop taking unnecessary drugs.

    There is also no "60 years" after "T", at least as of yet and given that "T" automatically shortens the life span of females who take it regardless of whether they develop cancer or a whole slew of other medical issues.

    Also there is nothing "smooth" that goes on in the trans life and the many problems that convinced them they were trans do not magically go away because they have barbaric surgeries and spend their life addicted to drug/s.

    And before you pipe in that there are many "successful" trans people, I am not speaking in terms of work, I am speaking in terms of mental health/mental peace.

    dirt

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  21. [And until the 20th century when medical science created trans people, trans didnt exist. Men and women who did not and/or could not submit to the gender status quo existed, as we exist today, but that has ZERO to do with "trans".]

    Might want to look something up before you seem so silly, Dirt.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus#Sex.2Fgender_controversy

    Far from the only one, but among the first truly prominent cases.

    I have always respected your butch lesbian side of things, so why do you allow and approve of comments where I am referred to as a man? Why do you continue to do so yourself, when it is obvious that it is disrespectful to me as a person?

    Do I refer to you as a man? You might say, hey I've got a vagina. You don't look it. Still, I have been respectful towards you. There is no good reason that you cannot have some common human decency in return. Whether you believe transsexuals exist or not, we *are* human beings. Kindly treat us that way.

    I can see that you're just going to keep right on with this charade. That's fine. Whenever you're ready to talk without censoring every little thing I say, I live 13 miles down the road from you. Let's do coffee one of these days. You can tell me your side, and I'll tell you mine. Unlikely to happen since you're unwilling to change your very closed mind, but hey. Offer's there. Who knows, maybe you would leave with a friend.

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  22. [And before you pipe in that there are many "successful" trans people, I am not speaking in terms of work, I am speaking in terms of mental health/mental peace.]

    I was ready to kill myself as a man, and yet I have been at nothing but better mental health and serenity since I touched estrogen. I actually value my life now as a woman. Suffice to say, many of us are better off. I can't speak for the FTMs, though my encounters seem to suggest that it is mostly the same (I know a few who are kind of cracked up now).

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  23. @Dirt, I am the Anon who posted about "post-transition".

    Good point: I always forget that those "guys" will be on T for the rest of their life, may still have mental issues and aftermath of surgeries and T...So yes, you are right, technically "post-transition" does not exist...

    In addition, I was just refering of the 3/4 "honeymoon" years during which, the person does the most of the surgeries, starts T, make his coming out, is on Youtube, has a certain fame...And so during which the transition may look as bringing benefits that may hide the dark impacts of it...

    I do think that most girls starting transition are focused on the benefits of those "honeymoon" 3/4 years and are not warned enough about the darkest hours they will have after that as it is not documented at all...

    What do you think about it ?

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  24. Anon @ 5:27 PM --

    I know your comment is directed at Dirt, but I'd like to chime in about "brain gender" if I can.

    I'm a woman who was born with apparently more testosterone than average. Good friend of mine is a man who likewise was born with a higher level of estrogen. Both of us have both physical and mental effects from this, and both of us (prior to meeting each other) identified as trans, and both of us eventually decided that we weren't.

    The fact that we exist actually invalidates the idea that brains are gendered -- the effects of T might be considered a "male" thing and the effects of estrogen a "female" thing, but obviously they're not exclusive to one gender or the other; most of the population has both in varying degrees (if women have a near-complete lack of T in their bodies naturally it impairs sex drive, for one.) There's plenty of women far more masculine than myself who've never questioned their gender, by their own admission. If we draw a line and say that women who have more than X amount of testosterone in their bodies are "male brained", how would these women be understood?

    My friend considers himself male and I consider myself female. And we allow what's in our pants to define our gender simply because it doesn't really define anything else about our lives -- neither of us take orders from our genitalia with regard to how to behave, how to dress, or to whom we're attracted. It's just kind of "there."

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  25. Anon@5:27pm

    If your body functions the way it was designed, then there is no need to alter it. My blood pressure is around 85/64, "normal" range is 120/80. My blood pressure has never adversely affected my health, its normal for my system. So are you saying because it isnt within a "normal" range I should take drugs to put it there?

    And nowhere on this blog or anywhere else I have ever posted that there isnt a male/female brain, clearly there is. None of which has anything to do with transism as you seem to want to believe.

    dirt

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  26. Hex, "wiki" seriously?...lol

    "I have always respected your butch lesbian side of things, so why do you allow and approve of comments where I am referred to as a man?"

    I dont have a "butch lesbian side", I'm a 3D Butch lesbian. And while you may not respect your nature, I do.

    "Do I refer to you as a man? You might say, hey I've got a vagina. You don't look it. Still, I have been respectful towards you. There is no good reason that you cannot have some common human decency in return. Whether you believe transsexuals exist or not, we *are* human beings. Kindly treat us that way"

    Why would you refer to me as man, wouldnt make much sense as I'm an adult female. The fact that you believe I dont look female informs your trans notions of yourself. Its a distorted view to say the least. I'm one of the few voices out there fighting the misogyny that informs trans ideology, I'd say that is more than "human" of me.

    I can see that you're just going to keep right on with this charade. That's fine. Whenever you're ready to talk without censoring every little thing I say, I live 13 miles down the road from you. Let's do coffee one of these days. You can tell me your side, and I'll tell you mine. Unlikely to happen since you're unwilling to change your very closed mind, but hey. Offer's there. Who knows, maybe you would leave with a friend.

    Again, I dont deal in sides, only truths. You wanna meet at Caribou in downtown royal oak on a weekend, anytime. Preferably early as it gets busy after 10am.

    dirt

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  27. @hex,

    "I was ready to kill myself as a man, and yet I have been at nothing but better mental health and serenity since I touched estrogen. I actually value my life now as a woman. Suffice to say, many of us are better off"

    How do you know you're better off? You clearly havent given your self the chance to know.

    dirt

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  28. You must be in the holiday spirit with all this lack of censorship for once.

    [Hex, "wiki" seriously?...lol]

    Not that hard to look up and confirm on your own. I just gave you a head start. Many people have lived their lives out as the opposite gender even despite no surgery and such, as well. That's a transsexual, and there's plenty of them around in history.

    [I dont have a "butch lesbian side", I'm a 3D Butch lesbian. And while you may not respect your nature, I do.]

    No, you don't. This has been my nature since my teens. To put the shoe on the other foot, it's like my announcing that all butches are fakes, and lesbians in general are destroying my transsexualism.

    That's what you sound like: one paranoid lady. I don't see why we just can't live in peace with each other. I'm getting so tired of fighting with other women, especially lesbians. I wish you would stop trying to destroy the fact that there are real transsexuals, at the least; I really don't appreciate being dehumanized either, Dirt.

    [Why would you refer to me as man, wouldnt make much sense as I'm an adult female. The fact that you believe I dont look female informs your trans notions of yourself. Its a distorted view to say the least.]

    Whether you like the gender roles or not, you don't look like a woman. That's not a distorted view, because anybody with eyes can see that for themselves.

    I linked one of your videos to a few people, and not a single one of them thought you were female before you started speaking. Denying the truth won't make it go away. It's not like people have x-ray vagina glasses, so they're going to go by your appearance when they meet you.

    [I'm one of the few voices out there fighting the misogyny that informs trans ideology, I'd say that is more than "human" of me.]

    There is no such misogyny, it's all in your head... like many other things. People continually state that I hate women, and I just laugh. I have a wife who I love dearly, and almost all of my friends are women. Both my ex-general manager and one of my close co-workers are writing recommendation letters for SRS for me, and they're both women. Misogyny... yeah right.

    [Again, I dont deal in sides, only truths. You wanna meet at Caribou in downtown royal oak on a weekend, anytime. Preferably early as it gets busy after 10am.]

    You mostly deal in opinions colored by your disgust for an entire group of people. Sometimes there's some truth in there, but it is tinted by how much you hate us (when you spend years on obsessing negatively, it's hate -- deny it all you want, though).

    Sounds pretty good, though. Would this be an even discussion of things? As in, would you be open-minded and listening a bit?

    [How do you know you're better off? You clearly havent given your self the chance to know.]

    I gave myself twenty-seven years to know, Dirt. I don't need you patronizing me when you don't know. I did what I did because I could not value my life and find happiness any other way. I should know, because I exhausted every other way there was.

    I'm not one of these younger kids that you can push around as if my brain wasn't developed yet. My brain developed fine, I just had the misfortune that it wasn't a man's brain. So I did something about it, and found a life that I loved living.

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  29. I don't want to push myself into a two-sided discussion but I just want to say that to my eyes Dirt doesn't look like an adult man, she looks like an adult woman.

    I am an amateur artist, I did sketches on plazas to gain some cash (sometimes it worked), and I'm also very much into paleontology and anthropology: this means I really, really like studying faces and the bone structure below, from bonobo to all the different kind of humans that walk this earth today.
    Dirt's face (because that's the main thing you could see from youtube, I suppose), as in her profile, doesn't look like an adult man's face. When Dirt was young, I believe she had no problem in passing as a boy, even if she didn't want to, because her facial bones below were and still are pretty strong-featured (my father was the reverse, as he had pretty delicate features. Only when he got older he started looking like Chuck Norris because of the beard, which he never shaves). But aging occurs differently in men and women, and now Dirt looks like a mature, adult woman, not an adult man. It's a subtle thing, but you can easily spot it if not swayed by "butchiness".
    Many women are strong-featured. Many Native American women are, and their faces easily passed as male to my eyes (this also happen to some other ethnic groups such as Australian Aborigines, Papuans and Southern Indian Veddas, Maori and basically most hunter-gatherer populations). We are used to seeing being of delicate features as being necessarily feminine/female...but it's not. It's just a sign of physical neoteny (meaning "young-looking"), which then has been selected in females in some cultures (most agricultural populations, actually, from Europe to Asia).
    And, the ones who look neotenic, like me, have no choice in the matter. I'd love to have a more strongly defined face, but I guess it just wasn't in my genes.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Some examples:

    http://www.old-picture.com/indians/Native-American-Woman.htm

    (she isn't an isolated case, her looks are rather common in Native American women)

    http://www.frankossen.com/Naked%20Women%20at%20Wamena%20Market%20-%20Baliem%20Valley.jpg

    (rather average-looking Papuan women)


    http://www.christchurchinfo.co.nz/PicsHotel/TamakiChch/GeneralPresentation/ID17484Pic4.jpg

    (Maori woman)

    They would probably be considered too "male-looking" to be conventionally beautiful, and the girls from those populations who are considered as such are the ones who approximate the most the more neotenic Western and Asian female beauty standards.
    BUT they are not masculine actually, just mature-looking, which is associated with masculinity due to "selective selection" in physical traits in agricultural societies where women were tied down and more "child-looking" (thus less offensive-appearing) women were preferred. This, of course, doesn't mean that being child-looking is the same as being childlike internally, it doesn't dictate anything about personalities unless you count, for example, my constant fighting for being seen as competent when I am child-looking as a personality trait...
    And finally, appearing neotenic can happen even in males, otherwise I'd have no chances of ever "passing" (it still happens with some regularity):

    http://topnews.in/light/files/justin-bieber.jpg

    Hey, some people ever prefer neotenic males...

    ReplyDelete
  31. If thats a yes Hex I need a day and a time.

    dirt

    ReplyDelete

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