Change Your World-NOT your Body

Saturday, December 11, 2010

Dysphoria and Questioning your Gender

A Saturday Discussion since I'm home with the flu.

For those who have suffered some form of body dysphoria, did your dysphoria at any time cause you to question your gender?

Comments are open providing we can largely stay on topic.

dirt


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66 comments:

  1. I can't read your blog anymore without copying and pasting it elsewhere. Im not sure if everyone has this issue but when I read white text on dark background my eyes just strain and twitch.

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  2. I agree with Eyeballs! I know it's unrelated but...just saying, the old background was better for reading.

    I'm FTM and have actually never experienced dysphoria as far as my gender. I know that's a little strange, but I'm really content being a female/potentially intersex-bodied, male-identified person. I've just always preferred being called he to being called she, and enjoyed wearing male clothing over female. //shrugs

    A friend of mine has pretty severe dysphoria [she hates how big her hips/chest are], and she's cisfemale. I think that anyone can have or not have dysphoria, it's just more typical for transpeople because a lot of them feel shame, etc. from society.

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  3. I have many times experienced feeling like I wasn't a "good enough girl" or "good enough woman." Starting probably around 6 or 7 years old I knew I wasn't as pretty as a girl "should be." Over time I learned that there were "girl things" I liked to do and "girl things" I really DIDN'T like to do, and same thing with "boy things."

    I never considered whether I was "the wrong gender" or "a different gender" because I never really gave a shit what gender I was INTERNALLY. Gender was something society placed upon me, and it was a box that didn't fit.

    If I had known about queer/trans back then I probably would have thought of myself as genderqueer as a teen and maybe even been enticed toward trans. The thought gives me shivers, because looking back I can see my feelings of being a "not good enough girl" were completely about society telling me what a female person was supposed to be. There was always part of me that felt not good enough, and always part of me that said, "Fuck them, I'm gonna be myself."

    Thank god for the second voice, which helped me find feminism, and awesome women like you, Dirt.

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  4. For me it's the other way around. I don't give a fuck about society, I don't give a fuck about pronouns, clothes or anything like that (sometimes I dress masculine and sometimes very femminine). I don't mind being called a woman and sometimes I enjoy wearing dresses. The only thing that bothers me is my lower region. It feels like there should be a penis and although I fully accept that I'm not a male (nor am I ftm) I have a feeling that for ME (not partners or society) I need a penis to enjoy sex (alone or with a partner, doesn't matter). This has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny.

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  5. Does it read better now you two?

    dirt

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  6. Anon@4:57pm,

    Actually body shame/dysphoria is typical for all females, not just females who believe they are trans.

    dirt

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  7. Awww thanks Selah and thank you for sharing, its important for other females to know they are not alone in feeling "wrong" in their bodies without being trans.

    dirt

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  8. TOP,

    What do you think informs those feelings?

    Do you enjoy your pussy? Do allow lovers to enjoy your pussy?

    dirt

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  9. I started identifying as trans because of pubertal body dysphoria - I thought the fact I didn't like my newfound body was very strange compared to what other girls of my age were thinking (or at least what I assumed they were thinking) and envied males who got all the "cool" things while I was bleeding and getting fatter. I never really voiced these thoughts a lot because I thought they were very abnormal, I felt alone. Then came the Internet and there I found other people, born female, who were like me! I thought I found the answer, and that the fact I didn't like my female body was due to my male brain (other "scientific" studies seemed to confirm this based on my attitudes....)
    I believe I would have grown a lot happier if I had known there is no such thing as "gender" - at least for me. Now that I have exercized a bit, like I used to do when I was little, my body is stronger and more athletic (at the top I was built like a short female marathon runner, lean, but muscular). I still have bigger-than-average thighs and should exercize a bit more this week (I ate too much Nutella and I don't regret it uhaha), but then who has a flawless (whatever that means for you) body? And really, how much does it matter? We are much more than what we look like. Believe me that I suffered from severe body dysphoria...I believe body dysphoria is not an absolute guarantee of being trans, there could be other factors at work.

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  10. I have always had dysphoria as far back as I can remember. I know you don't agree that someone can be transgendered and what not but that isn't really the point.

    I know that transitioning is the right choice for me. Going on testosterone took me a very long time because I researched it before jumping on the bandwagon as so many young people are ding right now. Before I had a computer or had access to a computer I did research by reading books and whatnot. Would I tell a young person to go on T? Hell no! It took over two years of extensive therapy to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder. That was when I was 19. I could have started taking T back then but I chose to wait due to the lack of info out there for me at tat time. I didn't start T until I was 37 years old (July 13, 2009). It was a big step but I know that I made the right choice for myself.

    I am okay with my fiancee touching me "down there" because I trust her. All of my adult life I had problems sexually to where I wouldn't have sex which cause a lot of breakups with my ex girlfriends.

    I am fine with having female genitalia. My dysphoria is with my breasts even though they are a large A cup to a smaller B cup. My dysphoria has caused me so much pain and anguish all of my life. I still get severely depressed over my dysphoria.

    Dirt, by the way, I like the new background better. It's easier on my old eyeballs...LOL. I hope you get to feeling better too! The flu sucks but so far I have not caught it. ::crossing my fingers:: Get well soon!

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  11. Men face body dysphoria, too.

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  12. Thank you for changing the background. It reads easier. I also like these discussions more.
    They seem far less like attacks.

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  13. "My dysphoria is with my breasts even though they are a large A cup to a smaller B cup. My dysphoria has caused me so much pain and anguish all of my life. I still get severely depressed over my dysphoria."

    I hope you won't read me as obnoxious or a know-it-all but I've had severe dysphoria over my thighs (which aren't even that dramatically big...) and it was such a stupid thing to be depressed over. Some natal males have breasts too, and the number will only increase with the years due to estrogen increment in our habitat. Frankly after going out of my "dysphoria mode" I find this extreme dysphoria over body parts such as yours a bit puzzling (meaning I can't really understand). If your breasts are smallish then they won't even get in your way. So if I may ask, why still the huge depression? Some people are born with a half-dead parasitic twin stuck in the abdomen, or scaly skin, or with bodies that are extremely prone to aging, or with craniofacial deformities...I think we all "normal" people should consider this for a moment in light of whatever body dysphoria we're suffering.

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  14. @Bluetraveler...my breasts even though they are small just shouldn't be there. No, they don't get in the way as far as having big breasts to where you get back aches from them but I have always felt they shouldn't be there.

    I don't like that my hair is thick and curly but what can you do? I'm not dysphoric over it but I just don't like it. I deal with it I suppose.

    Good question though...

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  15. Well, I too always loathed my breasts to the point I walked with a slouch that curved my spine (I'm recovering from it), because, even though they are on the smallish side, they wouldn't lie flat and I didn't want to use binders (too uncomfortable).
    Even now, if I could have the choice not to have had breasts ever, I'd probably pick it. But I can't change my history and breast removal is a) against my personal principles of saying no to (mostly) cosmetic surgery and b) possibly dangerous, sensitivity-depriving and what about my lymphonodes?
    My point is, even though you feel your breasts shouldn't be there, they aren't in a much higher scale of magnitude compared to a beauty mark that "shouldn't be there", considering things such as severe craniofacial deformities (like the ones the "Elephant man" had)

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  16. I kinda agree with you but I should be able to go outside shirtless and get a tan on my chest and back.

    I am not a young person who has jumped on the bandwagon to be FTM. It really does bother me that so many young people are claiming to be trans when all they want is to have a deeper voice. I've had a couple butch lesbians who are young ask me if they could buy a vial of my testosterone just so they can have deeper voices. I told them hell no! They both tried to tell me that they are trans yet when they went to therapy they didn't fit the criteria as having gender identity disorder. DON'T GO ON T FOR THE WRONG REASONS is what I told them. I know they aren't trans.

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  17. Yeah, I know, I read your other posts and I applaud you for what you've done for those young women.

    "I should be able to go outside shirtless and get a tan on my chest and back. "

    Well you can still do this, everyone can, though you'd probably be read as female or as a man with breasts (which can happen). So maybe your depression is more due to society's view of breasts and how you'd be seen with them rather than their presence itself? (I don't know, just guessing)

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  18. When I started living as male, I didn't even know what a transsexual was. I never really felt the need to physically change myself, seeing as I do not think I should have to conform to anyone's perception of what a 'man' is but my own. Simply to present as how I feel 'inside' was and is enough for me currently. Whatever that means, it is just how I have always felt ever since I can remember.

    I see the trans-fad, and I really try to stay away from it. I am nearing my 25th birthday and if I feel I need hormones sometime in the future, I will do it. But I feel with how young I am at this point, and since I can pass 99% as male, I do not need to convince anyone but myself of who I am and how I feel. If someone calls me a she I don't fret, because my partner, my friends and family all accept me. So I feel very little dysphoria about my body. I of course have consistent feelings that my body does not fit 'me', but I cherrish my health more than my need to convince society of who I am. Going by male pronouns is just something I started doing even before I met another 'transgendered' person.

    And thank you for changing the text from white! It hurt bad.

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  19. Anon@4:57 here!!

    It reads a lot better, thanks (: the way it was before put a weird strain on my eyes, like it did for Eyeballs!.

    I wasn't trying to say that just transpeople had dysphoria, sorry if it came out that way!! I meant that I thought that anyone could go through dysphoria, it was just the most typically realized/voiced in transpeople.

    I completely agree with you in the fact that women are victimized by society/made to feel bad about their bodies. ):

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  20. Women shouldn't have to feel bad about their bodies by any means! If you are a proud female then you go girl! I have been trans all of my life and am not proud of my breasts or my bits. My dysphoria is not so much about my bits but about my breasts!

    I applaud strong females who are feminists. I applaud butch lesbians who accept their bodies. I'm an FTM who is also a feminist. A woman has every right to have the same pay as a man and to have the same rights. Men are no better than woman yet some men think they are superior than woman which is bullshit! A woman can do EVERYTHING a man can do (and sometimes better) except procreate. I hate men who think women are less than they are. I respect ALL woman and would never think a woman is less than a man. Some men are just total assholes and think they are better but guess what? They're not! I despise men like that! I happen not to be one of those men. I respect women and always will.

    Why is it that women are so called the "weaker sex"? That is so not true! I hate men who are sexist, ignorant, chauvinists pigs, and who think that women are just play toys.

    Being an FTM I have had the chance to live both lives as being a woman and a man. I know now how ignorant and rude actual bio men are. I don't share their laughter at jokes about women or their lustful comments about women. They are pigs and that is why I stay basically to myself. I don't want to hear the crude jokes, rude comments, sexist remarks and so on.....

    ....Just saying!

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  21. Why don't FTMs realise that dysphoria never goes away, reguardless of what you do to your body with surgery or drugs? What you are trying to do is impossible and unnessesary. Why not get REAL help instead of dooming yourself to a whole life of endless hatred for your body and genitals, wishing you had something your will never have and should not have?

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  22. @ Brandon

    I smell bullshit. Everything you said is the same rhetoric all ftms say right before the reach for the needle of synthetic testosterone. If you "loved women" so much, you would not be desperate to demolish every part of your FEMALE body. You are not a man and will never be. And you don't have to be!

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  23. Unless you live someplace where everyone walks around with their genitals uncovered, what you've actually got in your pants doesn't affect how you're treated in public.

    It's secondary sex characteristics, not primary ones, that identify a fully clothed person's sex to the general public. They are also what cause others to impose gendered expectations on you. Particularly breasts; more than anything else, these are what identify a woman as female to the casual observer even if she's not wearing conventional women's clothing. If you have visible breasts (and no beard to suggest that you're a man with gynecomastia), people will treat you in whatever way they think it's appropriate to treat a woman. And much of the time, that's different from they way they think a regular, default human being should be treated. Doesn't matter whether the sexism is "benevolent" or overtly hostile, it's still sexism.

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  24. A lot of FTMs say that they "don't like being treated like a woman" or "envy that males get all the good things in life" and that is why they "must" transition socially, because they do not want to deal with these things.

    So instead of legit activism and doing things to help reprieve these bad things in society, you just want to "join the other team" so you don't have to be burdoned with them, all the while insisting that you are a feminist fighting for womens rights....now as a "man"...because you do not want to be on the recieving end of the inequalities you are "fighting for"....Oh well how wonderful for you!!

    STOP calling yourselves feminists.

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  25. The idea of an FTM calling themselves a feminist is laughable. Not funny. But laughable.

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  26. "You are not a man and will never be."

    No, *YOU* are not a man and never will be. Inasmuch as the world needs to know, I am a man. And that's okay.

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  27. "STOP calling yourselves feminists."

    I have stopped calling myself a feminist, but that won't change the fact that most of my views are extremely "feminist". I'd rather deny myself entrance to the club and continue to advance my view on gender dynamics, than be a member of the feminist club and be written off by most humans because feminists are unable to be objective.

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  28. "because feminists are unable to be objective"


    Wow. Just.....WOW.

    your hate for your own female body is horrifying.

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  29. @ Anon 4:47


    LOL. Okay hun, just keep telling yourself that over and over and over and over and over....

    until you're brainwashed! oh wait, you already are.

    deception is the ftm way of life sadly.

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  30. Thanks for the well wishes Brandon.

    Whether on T or not,whether large breasted or small there are exercises you can do to minimize (or for those inclined maximize) your breast.

    I'm wondering if you workout Brandon?

    dirt

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  31. Anon@8:37pm,

    Thanks for telling me, glad it reads better.

    And I'll try to provide more spaces for discussions.

    dirt

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  32. Brandon,

    to your comment at 9:02pm

    All women should be able to go shirtless, we shouldnt have to cut our breast off to do it.

    Women need to reclaim breast back from the sex objects men and the male gaze has remade them as rather than the beautiful life forces they actually are.

    This is yet another area males and the male gaze have worked to distort/shame womens perceptions of our own bodies.

    A male with a Dcup chest can walk around shirtless, a woman with an Acup goes shirtless and she'd be arrested for indecent exposure, or worse, raped and get blamed for that rape because she'd be considered "asking for it".

    When are women going to take their breast back? Me thinks there is a serious post in that.

    dirt

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  33. Well Notebook you should have piped up, I would have changed it sooner!...lol

    Question, if your partner, family and friends all used female pronouns, how would it make you feel?

    And remember passing as a male isnt the same as living as one, only males can actually live as males.

    dirt

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  34. Anon@1:28am you said: "If you have visible breasts (and no beard to suggest that you're a man with gynecomastia), people will treat you in whatever way they think it's appropriate to treat a woman"

    Wrong, I know Butch women with size double D's and as a Butch with probably a small C, we/I "pass" with regularity.

    dirt

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  35. HT,

    That is also a main issue I have with "feminist ftMs". First its an oxymoron, second where are all the ftM groups that are challenging patriarchy at?

    I've asked for a list multiple times here and not one person has spoken up. And in all my years of reading ftM lists, forums, communities and websites, I have never seen a single post that seriously challenged patriarchy, even in the form of discussion.

    dirt

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  36. Feminism is strictly a belief in equal rights, it runs a good deal greater than that. Feminism is about embracing and loving the woman that you are so that you can do the same for all women. Because until that happens, no woman will ever truly love another woman, whether friend or lover.

    Feminism is about challenging patriarchy in all its forms and challenging the misogyny patriarchy utilizes to keep us down.

    dirt

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  37. @Dirt,

    I tried to "enjoy my pussy" because I thought that that's how I'm born and I have to accept it. But it felt really weird, foreign and far from nice. Actually it felt like poking your nose -> awkward and it did nothing for me... and sometimes I feel like there's something between my legs but when I look down it's a vagina. I have yet to understand what's up with me 'cause I never heard this from someone before.

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  38. "Wrong, I know Butch women with size double D's and as a Butch with probably a small C, we/I "pass" with regularity."

    Dirt, I am also one of these women. I have been called "sir" wearing a tight T-shirt, and also told to get out of the women's restroom in the same get-up. But I stand by my comment at 1:28 am. The reason I get "sirred" in a T-shirt is that people tend look at purely social cues like hair length first. If they're still not sure, then they check for breasts. Then signs of facial hair. Then an Adam's apple.

    In my case, anyone who really wants to know, for whatever reason, can take a quick look below my neck and figure it out. However, not everyone bothers to do that -- either because they're not all that curious, or because they just can't believe that anyone with my haircut and clothes could be anything other than male. The only reason I pass (and I pass more often than not) is that a lot of people refuse to see what's right in front of them.

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  39. Transsexuals make people deeply angry because we defy a set of rules that the rest of the world accepts as a given and suffers with. This anger and outrage will always pervade any "argument" or "thought" you have about us. Therefore, what you have to say is completely useless.

    In the meantime, we go on with our lives and are much happier. Cases of regret and de-transition are very rare, as evidenced by the few scraps of irrelevant info Dirt comes up with. Happiness is the only true measure of a life well-lived, and if you are so obsessed with your outrage over transsexuals, you need to have a look further into what, in you, is so triggered us.

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  40. Dirt; Haha! Eyeballs! was me! I didn't want to be offensive about the new format.

    I am just not very close to those who do not accept me as trans. I have family who tolerate me, but have trouble. And that is all I ask, tolerance and understanding.

    It's difficult to hear anyone calling me a she, as I have been living as a 'he' for so long. I had my license changed from F to M, and my legal name is gender neutral.

    I consider myself living as male, I do not mind people knowing I am trans, because I am trans. You make it sound like some kind of secret exclusive club that only special VIPs are allowed into. I am content being transgendered, especially since all around me accept me as such. My partner is very spiritual, so even if I was a woman, or had a giant penis, I do not think it would make a difference. What defines a person is not what body they were born into, or at least that is how I have always felt. Being a woman is a very special thing to be, as is being a man. I think people should live as they feel most comfortable as long as it is not hurting anyone. But it's been since I was born that I've felt this way, so I cannot change my stripes for anyone.

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  41. Dirt,

    "Feminism is about embracing and loving the woman that you are so that you can do the same for all women. Because until that happens, no woman will ever truly love another woman, whether friend or lover."

    Supposing I were struggling with FtM gender dysphoria, what would characterize loving the woman that I am in a healthy feminist manner, and what would characterize "loving" the woman that I tried to be in an fetishistic autogynephilic way? Or are FtM women safe from that?

    "Feminism is about challenging patriarchy in all its forms and challenging the misogyny patriarchy utilizes to keep us down."

    Word.

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  42. Ok i just wanna say that, if u have body/gender dysphoria and u have other means to deal with it, or going on hormones and surgery is against your "personal principles" or is just a No No, hey all the power to u. U have every right to do what u want. But it shouldnt bother u what someone else is gonna do with their body, it is their right too to make their own decisions, if they wanna take hormones or surgery, the last time i checked it wasnt legal if done right.

    why does it matter if someone was born female and is living as a male or vice versa, its a free country and its not illegal, it maybe against other people's moral principles. but we all do not have the same principles or values. different strokes for different strokes.

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  43. "Transsexuals make people deeply angry because we defy a set of rules that the rest of the world accepts as a given and suffers with."


    You're not actually defying anything, except common sense maybe, but whatever makes you feel better I guess?

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  44. Transsexuals embrace the idea that certain psychological characteristics are caused by the sex of one's body.

    Transsexuals believe that people should be treated differently on the basis of their sex.

    This is why a transsexual can never be a feminist.

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  45. I agree with anon at 6:13 pm. FTM's aren't harming anyone. If they'd like to modify their bodies, change genders, whatever, let them. A woman's allowed to have botox and breast enlargement/reduction, and things that would modify her body. It seems hypocritical to me if FTM's aren't allowed to do this. Has any of you feminists come up with a reply to this argument?

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  46. Seeing as how feminists have been criticizing things like botox and silicone for eons now, that last one rings a big disingenuous.

    As to FTMs I think it stems from a few things. One, concern over health and medical issues. Two, the fact that lesbian / women's spaces are being turned into "pan-queer" / trans spaces, and "lesbian" is becoming a dirty word for everyone outside the golf dyke set these days. Why do you go on a lesbian site and see FTMs? Things like that. The world is big enough for people to make new spaces.

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  47. Anonymous 10:02,

    While I think people should be free to choose body modifications, cosmetic surgery, etc. I don't think people should be pressured to do so.

    We live in a society which devalues us, as women, unless we conform to narrow beauty standards and narrow gender roles. Being taller or more conventionally attractive means getting paid more. Being male means getting paid a lot more. It's no surprise that there are thriving markets for high heels and cosmetic surgery.

    We ought to live in a society that values us, as human beings, for trying to be good, kind, human beings, for creating something for those around us, and so on. Let's try to work on that.

    Look, I am pro-trans and I am still aware of very basic feminist objections to being pressured to have cosmetic surgery, and I have no desire to see anyone pressured to start transitioning, medically or socially.

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  48. @ Anon 8:18:

    "Transsexuals embrace the idea that certain psychological characteristics are caused by the sex of one's body." I am FTM and I absolutely don't believe that. That's not what it's about at all. I don't want to change anything about my essential self; I just want the image in the mirror to look like my inner image of myself.

    "Transsexuals believe that people should be treated differently on the basis of their sex. This is why a transsexual can never be a feminist." Again, WRONG. My decision to transition has nothing to do with anybody else or how I believe they should be treated.

    @Anon 1:19:
    "Why don't FTMs realise that dysphoria never goes away, reguardless of what you do to your body with surgery or drugs?" I DO realize that. I don't think anyone, ever, will really be totally free of dysphoria. I think my transition will help a lot, but I don't fool myself for a second that my dysphoria will be completely and magically gone after I take T shot #1 or #547 or #25 or whatever.

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  49. "Transsexuals make people deeply angry because we defy a set of rules that the rest of the world accepts as a given and suffers with."

    Actually, you're exchanging one set of arbitrary rules for another. Not very defiant, when you think about it.

    "Happiness is the only true measure of a life well-lived..."

    Do you really believe that? If so, you are in serious trouble.

    "...and if you are so obsessed with your outrage over transsexuals, you need to have a look further into what, in you, is so triggered [by] us."

    Straw man -- criticism does not equal obsession. It's also kind of dumb to suggest that outrage is always pathological. Would you say to an African American, "If you are so obsessed by your outrage over white supremacists, who are just living our lives and are HAPPY, you need to look inside yourself and see what it is in you that's so triggered by us." What this statement boils down to, really, is a pop-psychology version of the old kindergarten taunt, "I'm rubber, your glue, everything you say to me bounces back and sticks to you." It sounds clever, but it doesn't mean anything.

    @Notebook. "Being a woman is a very special thing to be, as is being a man." Speak for yourself. I am a woman (by which I mean cis, bio, WBW, standard equipment, you get this picture), and I do not think there's anything "very special" about it. (Cueing the Church Lady...) It's a biological fact, and kind of boring. Being a woman neither makes me who I am, nor prevents me from being who I am.

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  50. some androgynous lesbianDecember 13, 2010 at 12:55 AM

    I'm carrying my comment over from this previous post and into the active discussion:

    "Holy fuck, reading this made me realize you are a total ftm-in-heavy-denial closet case, lol."

    I thought that, too. But this kind of comment, though it may seem and feel warranted, is wrong: "yall fugly ass dykes are so jealous of us transdudes its retarded!"

    Dirt is who she is and accepts herself the way that does. For her, feminism is articulated with strict biology. In her view, the category of transmen operates within the patriarchy to replace butch women, which is an argument I don't agree with. In my view, transmen and butch women are two very different categories. Likewise, I would argue that sex (biological) is entirely separate from gender (constructed), and that both are separate from the orientation of one's sexual desire. Butch women, for example, though perhaps most often identified as lesbian, can also be bisexual or heterosexual. Transmen can be butch, effeminate, or in between, and can also be gay, straight, or bisexual.

    We do live in a violently misogynistic, racist, homophobic, and transphobic society. Because of this, many people feel body dysphoria for many different reasons, which may or may not have to do with sex or gender.

    That's the way I see things, at least. I think Dirt is trying to watch out for young butch women, and to let them see that not all body dysphoria is necessarily trans (it could be butch shame, for example). However, in doing so, I don't think she sees that for some people body dysphoria is related to sex. Some people do identify as transmen and make that journey, do change their bodies, and are happy. Some, like many men, will go bald. So what? The 'trend' of transmen, I believe, has more to do with the recent availability of information and online communities than it does with the patriarchy.

    This is Dirt's blog. She is free and welcome to write whatever she chooses, and certainly butch shame and femme invisibility are pertinent and relevant topics. My own sense of what constitutes feminist solidarity, however, causes me to seriously question her method of attacking particular trans individuals by posting their pictures.

    Transmen are hotties.
    Butch dykes are hotties.
    Patriarchy hates both, whenever it can see them.

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  51. "FTM's aren't harming anyone. If they'd like to modify their bodies, change genders, whatever, let them."

    Do you actually think that some blog has the power to stop anyone from doing this? I doubt that anyone commenting here would seriously dispute that you are free to do what you want with your body. However, you are not entitled never to have anyone disagree with you.

    You seem to think that all criticism of pro-trans ideology is a personal attack on individual FTMs, and therefore needs to be shut down. Personally, I don't care one way or the other if grown-up Becky is happier changing her name to Kayden Dudeguy and taking synthetic hormones. However, when Mr. Dudeguy starts saying stuff in public forums like, "I knew I wasn't a girl because I didn't feel girly, even when the girls got to stay inside baking cookies while the dudeguys had to go do the hard stuff shovel snow," I reserve the right to call bullshit.

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  52. Trans people are not defying anything. Transition is in fact the ultimate conformity. That is part of why it's problematic. You are not challenging any gender norms when you go get your healthy breasts cut off for no reason, or mess with the chemicals in your body for no reason.

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  53. ["Transsexuals believe that people should be treated differently on the basis of their sex. This is why a transsexual can never be a feminist." Again, WRONG. My decision to transition has nothing to do with anybody else or how I believe they should be treated.]

    So if you are treated as a girl that's okay right?

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  54. Dirt you mentioned "And remember passing as a male isnt the same as living as one, only males can actually live as males."

    since you do make this blog and i do believe you are an educated women, even though i dissagree at times with what you say.
    i am still interested in what you oppionion is on an FTM that doesnt care at all about "passing" (i personally dispise that term), but does actually live as a male yes synthetic hormones yes surgeries, BUT i work in male industries (labouring) my work mates nor boss know i am trans and i would never tell them because i am in my eyes just like them a 'man' i would NEVER expect special treatment i would NEVER use a womens service (except for a specific need) but i pay full cost for that i would NEVER expect any tax payer or govt to pay for that..

    i am interested in what you have to say, would you view me as living as a man?

    Z

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  55. "I just want the image in the mirror to look like my inner image of myself."
    Anyone with any other body-image problem would say the same thing. Only transexualism is encouraged though, I guess because it's easier than figuring it out.

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  56. @someandrolez,

    Statistically out of females who transition very few are Butch lesbians. Many of the tweener dykes who transition may have co-opted the Butch ID, that does NOT however make them Butch.

    If you follow the "who is transitioning" posts, you will notice, not a single Butch is present.

    If you actually read this blog, you would know that.

    dirt

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  57. @ some androgynous lesbian. How nice, you've learned the queer studies catechism and are able to recite it dutifully.

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  58. What's striking to me for the first time is the way that "gender disphoria" --as described here at least--has been compartmentalized, used as a diagnostic category to legitimize transitioning, surgery, hormones etc--not to mention legitimizing gender norms of masculinity and femininity -- and how much this masks --and by default normalizes- the "gender disphoria" that means *being a woman* in a patriarchal culture. What woman does not struggle with a sense of inherent deformity with respect to her female body in a patriarchal culture? I am grasping the obvious- the extent to which the fundamental feminist critique of femininity and masculinity is actually mystified by this concept of "gender disphoria" as if only a certain sub-set of people experience this.

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  59. some androgynous lesbianDecember 13, 2010 at 3:41 PM

    @Anonymous December 13, 2010 1:04 PM

    "How nice, you've learned the queer studies catechism and are able to recite it dutifully."

    And how nice that you've learned to condescend to me instead of engaging in conversation. That's very mature and feminist of you.

    Admittedly, I engaged in this dialogue before I read through most of posts here and watched several videos YouTube. If I had read through everything first, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

    Correct me if I'm misreading, but for you [Anonymous and Dirt], it seems as though there are only two kinds of people: homosexuals and heterosexuals. You seem to regard bisexuality (especially female bisexuality) as a fraud, and further consider transsexuality as a misogynist (if ftm) or homophobic (if mtf) abomination against nature and feminism. For you, there is only one kind of body dysphoria, and that is of the woman living under patriarchy (taught by culture to believe she is too fat, hysterical, weak, smelly, disgusting, etc).

    Is any of that wrong? Am I wrong in reading your beliefs that way? If so, correct me.

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  60. some androgynous lesbianDecember 13, 2010 at 4:15 PM

    @ Dirt

    Wait, let me sum this up better. I think you are arguing that:

    A) most transmen were not previously identified as Butch (however, many explain 'how they knew they were trans' through the gendered experiences of wanting to pee standing up or do other boy things -- which are experiences you include as part of the Butch identity).

    B) if there were no patriarchy (no misogyny and no male privilege) there would be no transmen.

    C) that transsexualism was created by doctors as a way to eradicate homosexuality (that doesn't make much sense on the part of the doctors considering that, at most, assuming butch/femme roles, it would only do away with butch women and effeminate men -- but maybe you aren't arguing that it makes sense, only that it is what 'the doctors' intended).

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  61. "And how nice that you've learned to condescend to me instead of engaging in conversation."

    If you sound like a college freshman in a lower-division queer studies class, expect to get called on it. You can read that as condescension if you want. If you expect anyone outside the LGBTTQQQIAXYZ Youth Center to be impressed with a 1990's style recitation about gender identity and sexual orientation being, like, OMG totally different, you're going to find yourself being condescended to a lot.

    Also, what on earth makes you think anyone here hates bisexuals? Bisexuality doesn't come up much as a topic in these discussions -- imo, it's not especially relevant. Transition pressure affects women of all orientations -- straight, gay, bi, whatever.

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  62. "I think you are arguing that:
    C) that transsexualism was created by doctors as a way to eradicate homosexuality (that doesn't make much sense on the part of the doctors considering that, at most, assuming butch/femme roles, it would only do away with butch women and effeminate men -- but maybe you aren't arguing that it makes sense, only that it is what 'the doctors' intended)."

    There's a long history of this, and it's still going on in Iran.

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  63. some androgynous lesbianDecember 13, 2010 at 10:56 PM

    @ Anonymous

    "If you sound like a college freshman in a lower-division queer studies class, expect to get called on it. You can read that as condescension if you want. If you expect anyone outside the LGBTTQQQIAXYZ Youth Center to be impressed with a 1990's style recitation about gender identity and sexual orientation being, like, OMG totally different, you're going to find yourself being condescended to a lot."

    Let's back up to my initial post: I tried to outline what I perceived as Dirt's argument. From there, I explained my counter views using one theoretical structure of identity (sex/gender/orientation -- apparently the dreaded "queer studies" methodology).

    Maybe my approach seemed amateurish to you because of its formula ("let me explain what I think you said and then why I disagree, just to make sure we're on the same page"), but it did allow both of you to correct and question when what I said I perceived about your arguments was wrong.

    If I seemed like a college freshman trying to impress you because I tried to open up a clear, civil, respectful conversation, then I don't really know what to say. College freshman must be very polite and articulate.

    If you'd like to clearly and systematically break down the reasons why the sex/gender/orientation structure I used is inadequate, that might be a better starting point than ridiculing me with assumptions about my education and age. (And I'm not being facetious.)

    As for assuming you didn't recognize bisexuality as legitimate, it was because I read a post where (I think) Dirt referred to queer femmes (as opposed to lesbian femmes) as merely damaged straight women. I had the impression she didn't believe female bisexuality was possible, but I could be wrong.

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  64. some androgynous lesbianDecember 13, 2010 at 10:59 PM

    @ December 13, 2010 8:11 PM

    Yes, and I think that also relies on a different concept of homosexuality than we have in our culture (namely, that they, with men, mainly consider the receiving partner to be the homosexual).

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  65. "Queer femmes" are damaged straight women, many damaged from early childhood.

    And it isnt like I havent seen a "girls gone wild" clip, I'm well aware women can choose to have sex with other women. That however doesnt make "bisexuality" a sexual orientation.

    And with regard to your last comment SAL, "perceived" is the operative word regarding my blog.

    dirt

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  66. No. Though I experience dysphoria all or most of the time, dysphoria does not however, make me question my gender whatsoever. Nor never will it.

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