Change Your World-NOT your Body

Friday, October 22, 2010

Dirt's Open Day Comments


All opinions welcome, again I ask, no spam.



Happy Friday to all!

dirt
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82 comments:

  1. Why do you believe all FTM's are misogynists?
    You already know the definition of misogyny, but just to refresh your memory it is the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women. What legitimate proof do you have that all FTM's hate, dislike, or mistrust women?
    I could turn it around and say all MTF's are misandrists, but that just isn't so. Most FTM's and MTF's just hate being born in the wrong body, they don't hate other people who were born in a body like theirs.

    Even if someone tells a transman they are a beautiful female, all that will do is emotionally and mentally hurt them more, which could cause them to just end their lives all together.
    What's wrong with accepting people for who they are?

    Also, you consider top surgery for an FTM "mutilation", but what about women who are addicted to plastic surgery? Do you consider that "mutilation" as well?

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  2. @the previous Anon quting "What legitimate proof do you have that all FTM's hate, dislike, or mistrust women?"

    Just have a look at the previous post and also explain us why the transmale invade women spaces, take lesbian women job position (cf Vanderbilt Uni) and force women to accept it and to shut up...

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  3. @ Anon
    That's not legitimate proof that ALL FTM's are misogynists. Only a small portion. Dirt only posts things that help her claims that FTM's are savage-like, women-hating, wanna-be men. Dirt never posts things that talk about FTM's who are feminists and FTM's fighting for women's rights. If an FTM fighting for women's rights is invading women spaces- then that's messed up.

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  4. @Waffles, if ALL FTM are not misogynists, where are hidden the ones who are not ?
    Only a few FTM have interesting comments on this blog.
    On Youtube, the position of most FTM is agressive towards other members of the community who open up about the trans fad or completely crazy (look at this guy who thinks he can understand women studies : http://www.youtube.com/user/trannytrent#p/a/u/0/eqiACLh9GqU).

    Give us example: we would be delighted to hear or watch it...

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  5. The nature of the trans disorder is based in misogyny, both internal and external. Where the female trans is concerned, she transitions because she hates her external nature, for reasons both societal and familial.

    These feelings for some begin in early childhood, for others, during puberty when their the dissociative desire to escape their femaleness reaches its peak, femaleness being the sense of growing breast, hips, periods, hetero/sexual female expectations etc.

    This mind/body split occurs because of misogyny. All females feel uncomfortable being female, some think its because they should be boys, other because they feel they should be thin, others because they feel they should have D cups breast, while others believe they should look 20 at age 45 and the list goes on and on and on.

    And that list will continue growing until women call women on perpetuating misogyny by submitting to the narrow notions of what a female is and can be and we as women begin setting the example, expanding what a female is and can be.

    dirt

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  6. I don't know if I can answer as Dirt would, Waffles, but I think she woulod say all FTMs are misogynists because they want to erase the female in themselves, and also because, by saying "I am male, I totally played football when I was a child...", they limit the concept of woman and what a woman can/should do (I know many transmen who are transitioning now are "fags", that's a different issue altogether).

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  7. I see she has already answered...sorry.

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  8. @Anon,

    I don't believe misogyny is behind why the trans/(male) community hides/silences voices of dissent.

    It is because the pseudo adopted trans identity is far too fragile to afford dissent and not fade away.

    With this disorder, there is no room for voices of dissent, which is why most never truly move on and out into the mainstream society they claim they belong. Because they need the constant reinforcement of each other, reinforcing their "man"hood, without a mirror, they dont exist.

    dirt

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  9. you need to stop posting other peoples photos without their permission. also i think you are an extreme hypocrite.

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  10. From all I've seen, I think GID started in the 40/50s as a mean to obliterate feminine (often gay) men and masculine (often lesbian) women.
    In the last 30 years, GID expanded its target exponentially: now most of the kids I see in forums are autogynephile MTFs and feminine/"I wanna be a pretty boy" FTMs. And all the mantras about being a female in a male body, or a male in a female body, are all a constructed and regularly repeated (because otherwise it would disappear in thin air) lie which should justify this mad obsession with plastic surgery (or, to be less politically correct, mutilation). I don't hate trans people, I used to ID as one, in fact I think there are some genuinely good guys and girls out there, behind your mask which you believe to be your real self (and what you think is a mask, that's your real self). It is this cruel system that has to go, but it guarantees way too much money to surgeons...
    And to the last anon: whatever you think of her, I don't know how you can say Dirt is a hypocrite, she has always stood behind her beliefs even when massively critiqued and harrassed. What you think of those beliefs is another thing. I agree on your last point though, she could have blurred those people's faces and her point would have come across the same. That was not a nice thing to do.

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  11. If I can bring my 5 cents, I think FTM are misogynists because they really see the world as totally binary and they build their identity on a false image of what is a male and masculinity.

    They go for a male identity but most of them do not know hat it means to be a male in our modern society...

    They have a very normalised/cliché vision of what it is.

    They go for male identity because they fear to become an adult and moreover an adult lesbian woman...

    Masculinity is not something you will learn as a woman by watching video of your "bro" FTM fellow on Youtube...

    Masculinity is more than passing in men's room or buying males underwear or claiming for male privileges in lesbian bars (the only male privilege in a L bar kid as a male is to have your ass kicked out of there) or oppressing Dirt by threating her...

    Masculinity is not about growing body and facial hair. A tint by the way: most women do not like hairy guys and most of them do not date bald guy as they look too old...

    Masculinity is about becoming an adult, growing up and be responsible as a male in this society.


    Only transmale are self focused on growing beard or having body/facial hair : it is really a pure trans fad, bio males do not have. It is pure teenager transfad.

    Those trans in fact are looking for a second teenagehood : they dont want to be an adult so they found a perfect way to avoid being an adult with their transition process...

    That is the reason why I don't understand the trans-fad : it is a loose-loose transition...

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  12. I don't think anybody who makes videos about "transitioning" (or anything else)on the internet should whine about their picture being used, especially in a discussion about that topic.

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  13. To the second-to-last anon: I think your analysis is accurate in relation to "old-school transmen", but many transmen I see now are less masculine than your average girl, and most don't like girls...they want to become anime pretty boys. But your observation about a second teenagehood is excellent, I never thought about it that way.

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  14. I agree that you should not use photos of individuals and attack certain transmen. Even if it's legal it's still not right to put someone up here for others to ridicule their appearance.

    As a fellow butch, i understand your concerns regarding what is considered the female "gender" and your fight against it. What is considered the female "gender" should be a reflection of the diversity of all people with female bodies not just the majority. The restrictiveness of the female "gender" is what causes certain butches to identify as the male "gender" and use male terms for themselves. I believe this may influence being stone as well.

    But I do not believe the desire to have a penis or a flat chest stems directly from not fitting into the female "gender". Even when i considered myself to be the male "gender" (before i knew what butch was) I didn't have the dysphoria toward my body as these people do. I think it could very well be caused by the way someone's brain is outside of the contours of society. I don't know why this is automatically impossible to you.

    I feel everyone would be better served if you focused more on destroying this construction of woman that is oppressing us all in one way or another than by attacking transsexualism in general and transsexual individuals. Just a suggestion.

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  15. I'd like to say, first of all that a lot of what you write on this blog either offends me or downright disgusts me on a personal level. But the one thing I do agree with you on, at least from my experiences with friends who identify as butch, is that there does seem to be a lot of butch shame, and that something needs to be done about it. And, that said, the fact that you seem to have overcome that and are comfortable with your body, all of it, on a personal level I'm happy for you. Because not many people have that.

    That's what I'd like to see more of.. not the "who's transitioning" posts, or the ones with "FtMisogynist" littered throughout the article 20 times, but ones that address the problems in the butch community, and honest, helpful ways, in your opinion that focus on finding solutions, or offering wisdom. You've lived a lot of years as a butch woman, and seem proud of it.. and that's what this blog should have more of.

    Also, I'd like to know your opinion on some studies that have been done measuring the brain sizes of transsexual people versus those who don't identify as such. I don't have all of the links on hand right now, but http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/02/us/study-links-brain-to-transsexuality.html from 1995 is interesting, if dated overview, and http://www.iiav.nl/ezines/web/IJT/97-03/numbers/symposion/ijtc0106.htm gives more on the study itself.

    It's not light reading by any means, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the results.

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  16. Have I read the "That's what I'd like to see more of.. not the "who's transitioning" posts, or the ones with "FtMisogynist" littered throughout the article 20 times," ?
    It reminds me how in the 50's people where asking to women to take care of their own stuff and not to have a political opinion about other topics. It is like if you were asking Dirt to go back to her kitchen...Woa, and you don't think you are misogynists ? Who are you to tell Dirt which topic she wants to develop on her OWN blog ?

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  17. Regarding "brain size", eugenics has no scientific basis in reality, it didnt when the nazi's developed the T4 program and murdered tens of thousands of those deemed by that program as "life unworthy of life" or the racist programs the US devised to "prove" blacks, white poor and other minorities should be forced sterilized because they were "scientifically" ruled "unintelligent". When people set out to find certain results, 9 times our of ten, they will.

    The highly respected Dr. John Ioannidis has scientifically proven that there is little scientific truth to most scientific data. See article:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269

    dirt

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  18. Regarding the use of photos/videos,

    I'm using public photos/videos that anyone can see and I have been linking to said photos/videos.

    If you fear you might wind up being discussed on a public blog, then do not post public photos/videos. Problem solved.

    dirt

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  19. It's possible that some people, for some neurological reason, just expect to see a different set of parts when they look in the mirror. A small number of FTMs have written about having this sense that their anatomy is wrong. The majority write about discomfort with the female social role, and name this as the main motivation for transition.

    Most of them are Gen Y, and grew up in an era of ant-feminist backlash and fashionable biological determinism. There may have been more overt discrimination against girls and women when I was growing up, but there wasn't all this evo-psych, Mars and Venus crap polluting public discourse the way there has been for the last 20 years especially.

    In this context, there is a very strong possibility that a woman who feels uncomfortable with her female contours is reacting to the way her body causes other people to react to her. If you've got breasts, people assume all kinds of things about you, no matter how you present yourself. Those assumptions may very well be wrong. People treat you in certain ways that may feel inappropriate. None of this has anything to do with the rightness or wrongness of your body, it's the social role that gets forced on you when you have a certain body. There's really no escaping it -- even nice, well-meaning, mostly feminist liberals are frequently guilty of this kind of mindless stereotyping, assuming, and role-enforcing.

    It's not just plausible, but likely, that a lot of women these days are deciding they're FTM because they associate their non-flat chests, etc., with this daily, subtle role coercion. It doesn't help that a lot of them have been fed a steady diet of queer theory in college, and evo-psych in pop-culture.

    It doesn't surprise me that some see transition and the difficulties that go along with it as a fair price to pay for not having to experience the daily pushback all women have to deal with for stepping outside of the socially sanctioned feminine roles. I think Dirt's doing a public service by pointing out that you can still be yourself, in the body that you have, and OMG EVEN USE FEMALE PRONOUNS, and if our sexist society doesn't like it, too f-ing bad. And by pointing out that the health consequences of transition, not to mention the looks consequences, are often a lot worse than would-be FTM's are encouraged to believe.

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  20. @last Anon: "Most of them are Gen Y, and grew up in an era of ant-feminist backlash and fashionable biological determinism. "

    So true see there:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jYESZpHIo

    and there

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u4bjjIrpyo

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  21. I think that most men, including trans men, are passively misogynistic. They may not notice how cultural narratives deprecate women. They may not notice how social expectations confine women, or may not realize how different social norms reinforce each other and make it hard to work around one without facing another.

    There is a metaphor - I think it may come from Marilyn Frye - of a birdcage. It is easy enough for birds to fly around one wire, but not when the wires come together to make the cage. Men tend to dismiss misogyny because they see one of the wires, or another of the wires, and when they examine the wire they don't see the problem.

    But the email Dirt linked in the last post is something much worse. It is of someone who is glad to have the power that comes from some men doing violence to some women.

    A lot of people also face internalized misogyny. Among trans men, it can add to hatred of one's body. I think that transsexualism is real, but it's hard for people considering transition toward male to distinguish natural feelings about their bodies from culturally-imposed feelings about them. Among trans women, it can mean hatred of one's gender-feelings and it can mean narrow expectations of what it is to be a woman. The *Standards of Care* can add to that.

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  22. Most studies of brain anatomy and sex difference come up with null findings, or extremely ambiguous findings. These get almost no press, because inconclusive results don't sell newspapers.

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  23. Many of arguments being used against FTM’s on this blog – by dirt or others – have been used against butch women sometime or another. This includes the misogynist, self hatred, binary, artificial masculinity, self-mutilation of the female body (some butch women bind etc), the list goes on.

    It truly hurts and worries me that (some) butch women are using the same tools used to oppress them on FTMs. It scares me when one marginalized group marginalizes another. I think your arguments lack depth, the same depth they lacked when they were used against you.

    -A non-trans, non-butch queer womyn

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  24. "the brain sizes of transsexual people versus those who don't identify as such."

    This doesn't prove anything. For example the brains of people who are suffering from depression are different from those people who are happy. This doesn't mean that people who have depressions are born in this way! It only shows a current status not where it comes from.

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  25. Dirt @ 10:00 and Anonymous at 1:08, both brilliant. Thanks for being so eloquent on this topic.

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  26. Dirt you're the kind of person who would lead trans youth to suicide, but then again that's probably what you want. You're part of the problem not the solution.

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  27. How would you feel for people to be saying the exact same things about butches being disgusting, misogynist horrible individuals? I'm sure you've had your fair share of bullying and torment growing up and in your adult life right? So why would you take that hate towards you and fire it back at a minority group? Why would you not say hey being hated and picked on feels horrible why the hell should anyone go through this? Instead you join in. You are no better than any homophobe out there.

    We are not all misogynists. I have stepped in many a time seeing people getting bullied for being gay. I am an ally and I am there 100% for others. If you were being beaten up for being butch and a transguy was walking by would you not want their help, after all they can relate in some way. You should be looking to build community not bash others because your bored.

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  28. @Anonymous at 2:14.

    Butch women have been attacked for not conforming to particular stereotypes of what a woman is.

    Dirt and many commenters here are criticizing the idea that women who don't conform to those stereotypes aren't really women. (Including women whose "gender expression" is more like that of an effeminate gay man or a metrosexual straight man than a conventionally feminine woman. It's not a secret that some of the women decide they're FTM fall into this category; most feminist critics of the FTM trend know this.)

    Dirt has made at least one post highly critical of binding, which can cause physical damage. You may have overlooked it.

    What scares ME is when well-meaning, pc types demand that everyone throw their critical thinking abilities out the window when it comes what goes on in the "queer community."

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  29. @the Anon who says I'm leading folks to "suicide", clearly this blog is against transition, therefore I'm not the one leading folks to murder themselves. And make no bones about it, transition IS a form of suicide because it involves the self murder of the self.

    So if you support transition in any way shape or form, you support the self death of those who transition.

    I support the positivity of the female mind and body and work to change the misogyny that is behind trans feelings. That isnt negated because I post the far too numerous negative facets of transition.

    dirt

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  30. So, minority groups are above criticism simply because they're minorities? Sorry, that doesn't fly.

    How nice that you stand up for gays 100%. Even the most dedicated social justice activists I know admit to not speaking up when they know they should sometimes. But you have a perfect record. Wow.

    I guess that means every gay person should be grateful to you, and just shut the fuck up when they notice some logical inconsistencies, not to mention plain old sexism, in the most common reasons given for transition. And that they should automatically cheer when another young woman decides to inject T because she never wanted to wear a dress as a girl.

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  31. Regarding "Many of arguments being used against FTM’s on this blog – by dirt or others – have been used against butch women sometime or another. This includes the misogynist, self hatred, binary, artificial masculinity, self-mutilation of the female body (some butch women bind etc), the list goes on"

    I recognize, praise and honor that Butch women ARE women! I hold that Butch women are 100% feminine bodied women and do not hold the ignorant notions that Butch women are "masculine" which the postmodernistic queer theorists do, that have done nothing but harm and destroy Butch women with.

    I do write about the self hating and Butch Shame that most Butch women go through and feel and do write against the insanity of the misogynistic self hating "binding" routine some Butches feel the need to do or feel pressured to do because they are so ashamed of their beautiful feminine bodies.

    So you might wanna check your facts.

    dirt

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  32. I see you removed the one I posted under an hour ago regarding the possibility that YOU are the one who created the proudtransman account and YOU posted it.. If YOU had not done it there would be no need for YOU to scramble and remove it. I am sick of the cyber-slime online. Nuff Said..

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  33. "I see you removed the one I posted under an hour ago regarding the possibility that YOU are the one who created the proudtransman account"

    No she didn't! Are you stupid or something? It seems so.

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  34. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_T0uKvT8rA

    This is a well done video on this topic..

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  35. Transsexualism is Patriarchy’s answer to Feminism.

    All uprisings by an underclass will be squashed to protect the privilege of those whose privilege is based on the subjugation of others.

    Civil Rights movements are undone by assassinating leaders both literally and socially, by importing and marketing toxic drugs and alcohol into underclass communities and forming economies whereby some minorities can escape their economic fate under apartheid by actively supporting the systems put into place to marginalize and destroy their own communities.
    We can see this by studying the decline of any social justice movements: The silencing of revolutionary voices via literal/character assassination, implementation of systems and economies to undermine the strength and health of marginalized groups that might otherwise revolt, and the tokenization and promotion of those who support such systems.
    Feminism is no different, except by the obvious fact that feminism is the only social justice movement that does not benefit males.

    The creation and imposition of gender is based on an apartheid of reproductive function, and as such the oppression of women is centered on our sex. Our bodies.
    Forty years of backlash against the widespread feminist counterculture of the sixties and seventies has birthed the recent boom of radical body modification based on gender roles, from breast implants to botox to dieting to an economy of hair removal and de-scenting and liposuction and surgical genital modification.
    Our feminist voices have been assassinated and economies have been put into place which benefit only those women who gain privilege by reinforcing and supporting them- through pro-pornography and prostitution and body modification practices- with Orwellian cries of “This is Liberation!”. “Freedom for Women by Upholding the Power of Men!” and now “We ARE Men!”

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  36. Some men seek to possess the essence of that which sexually gratifies them: Women, and the female bodies upon which the gender “woman” is built. By any means necessary they want to get closer to that which pleasures them, which in their conception is an ownable commodity removed from actual humanity. They have no concept or understanding of the actual experience of living under the gender “woman” and the internalization of lifelong oppression and bigotry since the moment of birth. They are often quite surprised when they get even a glimpse of it after altering their appearance to resemble females, Even then the filter of their lifelong internalized male privilege leads them to believe that oppression of the female is somehow an oppression of their male ego and entitlement. Hence their hew and outcry about the imposition of patriarchy -with all its abusive raping murderous genocidal force- upon their surgically created pseudofemale selves, and the formation of “Transgender Day of Remembrance” which mourns the loss of pseudo-females and ignores the ongoing murders of millions of women.

    Rather than “becoming women” and seeking to ally themselves with a female social justice movement their deeply programmed sexism leads them to PUNISH WOMEN for their rapes and murders at the hands of males, and all their activism and organizing is based on destroying and undermining the social justice movements of those who are actually born female and raised in the subhuman underclass that is “woman”.
    And the females claiming “liberation” by denying their true sex are doing the same. That is why there is no “Camp Trans” harassing the “biomale only” gay gatherings but there is one every year at MichFest, and why they want to destroy any activism by females that does not centrally locate the concerns of those born male and the female-born that deny and disguise their sex. Trans people don’t want to belong to their target sex. They want to colonize and destroy women. They colonize the language of civil rights movements and paint themselves as oppressed even as they uphold the very foundations of the oppressors, much like the Christians now do when they paint themselves victims of Gays and Lesbians.

    One of the ways feminism as a widespread social movement has been undermined is by the removal of feminist ideas from the popular culture and placing them in academia where working class and grass roots voices and experiences are not welcome, and by watering down feminist ideas to make them more palatable to male supremacy apologists and deniers.
    A new grass roots Radical Feminism is in order, and is coming, mainly at the hands of females in non-westernized cultures and nations, but also evidenced in this and other blogs where all the unassailable inarguable truths can simply not be held down by all the tools of the patriarchy and all the enemies of women. The backlash against the backlash is underway.

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  37. I'm an ftm who transitioned 8 years ago. I'm happy, I'm tall, I have my hair, I'm handsome, fit, and well-adjusted. I can see misogyny in the world and it makes me angry-but that's not going to ever make me feel like a woman. Besides, after 20 years inside the feminist movement, it started to smell like bullshit because dissent was not tolerated. Logically I can't support a movement that will never admit where it has gone wrong.

    I check this blog out because I never had the words to say to all the fucked-up butches who projected their physical discomfort onto me when I came out to them. I have the words now and your arguments suck, Dirt. It's true that you don't listen to what people say. You come at us from any desperate angle you can. First we're misogynist, then we're actually women (because you would know), but oh, then we have too much book-learnin', and now we are "bald with a paunch"? Is that all ya got? Because I've never seen a fat butch before, god knows...
    I've met transpeople who were made miserable because of their bodies, but I've never, ever encountered anyone who is as miserable and obsessed as you are.

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  38. So what were you dissenting about, when you ran into this monolithic feminist intolerance?

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  39. Here's an old article from 1988 about what happened when it became so popular for lesbians to start couching everything they say in meek-and-mild, touchy-feely pseudo-psychotherapeutic language.

    I thought that era had faded, but I can see its influence lingering on in these demands for NICENESS and NOT OFFENDING ANYONE EVEN A LITTLE TINY BIT.

    http://www.feminist-reprise.org/docs/therapism.htm

    Btw, I have no idea where the author stands on the trans issue, but the "therapism" phenomenon she describes here was real, real, real, and apparently still is.

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  40. Anon @ 5:33-

    I've never seen Dirt or any feminist speak out against "book learnin" and access to education for women and girls. Some criticize academic bias under a male supremacist culture. See the distinction?

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  41. re: book learnin'.

    You only have to go back a few posts to find where Dirt accuses people of having been exposed to too many gender studies or something like that. It's a funny little rant. What was interesting is that she inadvertently criticized one of her more academic-sounding supporters, i think because she lost the thread.

    I happen to agree that academia can't be the base for a feminist movement that successfully addresses the needs of women from all different classes and levels of education. Academics tend to get off on their own vocabulary, creating a new "reality" that is totally useless to women struggling for basic needs. Academic feminism is a haven for women who are more interested in wielding their theories and squelching opposition in the same way men wield their dicks. Same behavior, different genitals. Academics are more interested in being "right" than they are at actually healing the world of misogyny. That's why they can't listen to opposing arguments and *that* effectively guarantees that they won't ever be "right".
    You could argue that transpeople have created our own reality by claiming something is real that so many people can't understand and have not experienced. That's our lot, and it's the same lot as gay people have-the world thinks you are not actually what you say you are. It's upon all of us to get up in the morning and affirm what we are by our very existence. All the arguments in the world can't destroy me. I am therefore I am. And I'm not going away.

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  42. re: the rape comment

    I don't hope that anyone gets raped but I'd say you bring this kind of response on yourself because of the way you deny we exist. Does it feel nice to you that most of the world thinks you aren't actually a lesbian? That you are just some damaged, fucked-up, misled pervert who needs to be straightened out? Or that you just need to get over yourself and transition? Having had access to alot more of straight culture since my transition, I can almost see their point. And that's really sad.

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  43. "Or that you just need to get over yourself and transition? "

    There is no need for transition, Who came up woth this shit?

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  44. Here is how trans people "build community":

    - Bringing a lawsuit against a feminist-run domestic violence shelter, because they wouldn't let some autogynephile volunteer counseling traumatized women
    - Starting a letter-writing campaign against a Women's Health Clinic in post-Katrina New Orleans because they didn't provide urologists-disguised-as-gynecologists for trans women
    - Protesting a pharmacy that provided safe & affordable services for women

    This is what trans people think about the human rights of women.

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  45. //I don't hope that anyone gets raped but I'd say you bring this kind of response on yourself because of the way you deny we exist.//

    LOL that isn't misogynist? Ye olde "the woman brought it on herself" bullshit. Disgusting.

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  46. Cross posting the veiled threats on this thread too, Anon. at 7:07?

    It's like when wingnuts say, "I abhor violence in any form, but if those doctors keep on MURDERING BABIES...that president keeps on PUSHING SOCIALISM...what do you think will happen? Amirite, guys?"

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  47. I don't see anything anti-intellectual about the occasional pointed joke about queer theory.

    All sorts of people - from cultural conservatives, to queer theorists, to J. Michael Bailey, to John Money, to the neo-Freudians - have imposed their theories onto the experiences of women and of trans people.

    All too often, it a non-trans man imposing his theories. But it's not much better when it's a woman and/or trans person on everyone else.

    We are on firmer ground if we talk about our experiences involving gender than if we try to interpret someone else's experiences. But queer theorists seem to watch a drag show and extrapolate from what they *think* the performers are feeling to what they *are sure* everyone else is feeling. Not all gender is drag.

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  48. re: dissent

    I started feeling uncomfortable in feminist circles because women from working-class, or Christian, or non-white backgrounds were repeatedly condescended to. Speaking up and saying," But wait, I *love* the men in my life" or "I didn't feel victimized in such and such situation" would get a person written off as a co-opted victim. An un-empowered person. Ignorant. She just needed to be enlightened by those of us in the know.It seems to me that a movement which cannot hear a woman describe her experience in this world and grant her agency to *know* what she feels is a movement which will be rendered useless. Women need to be trusted to interpret their own experience because feeling like a constant victim will never allow them agency.
    Also, describing *every* social dynamic as patriarchal and misogynistic defies credibility and renders the world two-dimensional. I think at the heart of feminism is the need for women to be self-defined and to live their lives in freedom. Issues like freedom of choice, systemic violence against women, job equity, female body image, and self-determination will always be feminist issues. Trying to make everyone see *all* issues through the feminist lens will always ring false and well, the majority of people is who we want to reach. Well, I do anyway.

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  49. There does seem to be a pretty strong correlation between doing a lot of gender studies in college and jumping on the FTM bandwagon. That, and not having living lived long enough to realize that you can't actually "create your own reality." Reality is there whether you believe in it or not. No one's denying that MTFs and FTMs exist. Some people here are challenging the reasons they put forth for transitioning. If those reasons are good, they'll hold up under scrutiny. Usually, though, they just fall apart.

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  50. "Trying to make [Males] see *all* issues through the [Female] lens will always ring false and well, the majority of people [Men] is who we want to reach. Well, I do anyway."

    Aaaahahahaha!

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  51. @Anon at 7:40 pm. I tend to agree with Dirt most of the time. However, I agree with about 98% of what you have to say in your 7:40 post, and I too remember experiencing precisely that kind of condescension, for pretty much the same things you mention.

    I disagree, though, with your view that feminism should be all about "choice," no matter what those choices are. Or do I misinterpret you? I happen to think there are a lot of choices make that are, in fact, subtly coerced. Becoming a stay-at-home mom because your husband makes so much more than you, anyway, and your lesser income just gets eaten up by taxes, for example. Or becoming a Mormon housewife. I think that in at least some cases, perhaps most, transitioning (FTM) is another not-so-free choice. I don't deny anyone's right to make these choices, but I also reserve the right not to support them, or call them feminist choices.

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  52. :the rape comment

    I said the RESPONSE was to be expected, not rape itself. If it's fair for Dirt to grab photos of people off the web, post them on her website and ridicule them on the basis of their bodies, then it's fair for someone to respond on an open forum. For what it's worth, Dirt sorts through her detractor's posts to repost only the ones that make all of us transguys sound stupid and violent. More nuanced, even conciliatory and compassionate posts from ftm's are disregarded by Dirt because it makes us too complicated and real to rage against. Likewise with searching YouTube for the ftm baldies, the paunchies, the teenaged punks. Would you feel adequately represented by some silly 18-year old butch who just came out of the closet. You can try to paint any selective picture of ftms that you want, Dirt, but your nagging insecurity will always be there because you know that there are so many of us transmen who are smart, feminist, empowered, compassionate, fulfilled, hot, loving, outspoken, and unashamed of ourselves. That truth will only get louder as you continue to deny us our existence.

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  53. You "Butches" give lesbians a bad name. Just a bunch of whiney little "Bitches". You all make me wish I was straight

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  54. http://web.archive.org/web/20080309112043/www.questioningtransgender.org/vitaman.html

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  55. Didn't the original Questioning Transgender website get taken down because the owner was harassed so much?

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  56. You said-
    "If it's fair for Dirt to grab photos of people off the web, post them on her website and ridicule them on the basis of their bodies..."

    Those girls specifically posted those images to show the public at large the physical body modifications they were undergoing. To enter them into the public discourse on transitioning. Their intentions are being honored by using them to educate and discuss. Dirt did not go to folks worksites or personal spaces to capture candid photos against their consent. They are being used EXACTLY in the manner in which they were posted.

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  57. Okay, Anon at 8:00pm.

    Does this --

    "Does it feel nice to you that most of the world thinks you aren't actually a lesbian? That you are just some damaged, fucked-up, misled pervert who needs to be straightened out? Or that you just need to get over yourself and transition?"

    Sound like this --

    "nuanced, conciliatory, and compassionate" ?

    Is that the post of someone who is

    "smart, feminist, empowered, compassionate, fulfilled, hot, loving, outspoken, and unashamed" ?

    Of course, no one's 100% 24/7.

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  58. The silly 18 year old butch who just came out of the closet can stop looking so silly any time she chooses. It's just a matter of ditching the teenaged wardrobe.

    The 18 year old who doesn't realize she could look like an old man after a few years on testosterone? SOL.

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  59. @Anon at 7:57pm

    I agree that not every choice made by a female is a feminist choice... and I can see where the outrage comes from in regard to ftm body changes. The very idea provokes a response of abhorence in people that stems from an idea of what is "natural" and I think that "natural" idea needs to be scrutinized as well. Where are we actually taking that definition from? The hippies?
    I resent scrutiny of ftm's motivations because it denies us agency and we are inherently mistrusted and thought of as victims of a trend. Not only by the larger culture but by gay culture. There is a sense that people should be free to express whatever gender they see fit but that they should not be free to express that within their bodies. There is a disbelief that we could actually be who we say we are. In a historical sense, there were not always words like "butch", "femme", "queen", "bear", "trans" etc. but people have always been around who presented in those ways. We all know they have always existed. So to me, it seems there is a desperate attempt from the gay community to draw a line and arbitrarily announce an end to categorization. We feel too old for change. "There is gay, bi, and straight, and no other categories will heretofore be allowed to exist (even if they always have with or without our permission).
    This seems silly. Worse, I think it makes gays seem a little pathetic to a world that will continue to change. Gay is great and gay is wonderful, but it is imperative that people scrutinize themselves as intensely as they scrutinize transpeople. And I think that is where the resistance comes from. It's incovenient. When people started saying " I feel like a man" it threw gender into sharp relief in a gay world where things had been more fluid. Now gay people claim a corner on the market of imagination where it comes to gender. But who knew there were so many "butches" out there who actually didn't feel like women at all, given the opportunity to look or define themselves differently? I see how the *confirmed* gay community would feel so betrayed and uncomfortable. I don't feel great about that, but I don't feel I should be made to apologize or recede from view for other people's comfort.

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  60. @Anon at 8:16pm
    " does this....sound like this..." etc.

    ....Now, you *know* you are just being stupid. I was making a point about self-definition because I *know* that butches exist and are not what straight culture thinks they are. Just as I know I exist.

    What you are trying to do is drag down a conversation that is just starting to really address something useful.
    Do *you* have anything useful to say about my point? Because I know you heard me. If you are only capable of cheap shots, that's okay too. I'm used to it, because desperation creates illogical thinking and weak arguments.

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  61. Anon @7:57. That sounds fair enough, but it seems to me you discount somewhat the social context all this happens in.

    If some people believe they'd be happier with a body more like that of the opposite sex, and do something about it, that's one thing. When they start promoting the idea that every thought, feeling, preference and behavior that doesn't conform to gendered social expectations is "cross gender," or "gender variant," or "transgender," then my BS meter goes off. And I have seen those views on a lot of trans sites.

    Speaking of nature, I agree that the idea of what's natural should be scrutinized. That's one reason I find it objectionable when some trans (and other) individuals suggest that "nature" tries to produce cookie cutter, heterosexual, manly men and womanly women, and that anyone who doesn't fit this mold, trans or not, gay or not, is like that because something went a little haywire. Again, I've seen this expressed on more than one trans site.

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  62. Anon at 8:47. Desperate? Hardly. You wrote what you wrote. It's there. Take responsibility for it.

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  63. By the needle you "exist".

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  64. @You wrote what you wrote...blah blah.

    I will not take responsibility for a viewpoint that I fight every day against. Just because many people think it doesn't mean I invented it. Duh.

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  65. you are a closet transmen.

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  66. @Anon, from 9.50 a.m.
    I'm a proud genderqueer, FTM teenager (who hasn't been "sucked into the trans-trend", I came out to myself as male when I was seven) and I'm also a proud feminist and non-misogynist.

    I suppose it's not enough evidence for you, or anyone else, to believe that ALL FTM's are not women-haters, but I'm quite content.

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  67. What a complete fraud. My post has been deleted from less then an hour ago.

    Congrats on the great "discussion" Dirt.

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  68. I think this blog is hilarious and great entertainment because you are so full of bullshit.

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  69. geeeze.. someone just gave me the link to your YouTube Account. This explains it. :::rolling eyes::: http://www.youtube.com/dirtywhiteboi67

    Think I will run along and do something constructive with my time. No sense wasting another minutes worth of time here.

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  70. Can't believe I'm looking at this again, but the FTM who posted the original rape comment just lost all credibility.

    You wrote what you wrote. It's there for all to see. Apparently, you share the attitude you claim to fight against. Take responsibility.

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  71. So far, not one trans poster has been able to explain their reason for "feeling like a man." I'm going to guess it's because they can't do so without invoking gender stereotypes. Why would anyone do something nasty like call your motives into question? Last time I checked, those stereotypes were still damaging a lot of lives -- straight and gay.

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  72. @ last Anon. They dont need to defend their feeling of manhood to you,just as you don't need to defend why you feel like a "butch". Maybe it's something that's difficult to explain? Like being homosexual, it's just something you know, it doesn't need to be explained.

    Lets describe "butch" just for the hell of it since you're so intrigued by definitions

    Butch   
    –noun
    a male given name.

    butch haircut 
    –noun
    1.
    a short haircut for men, similar to a crew cut.
    2.
    a haircut for women in which the hair is cropped relatively short.

    butch
    — adj
    1. (of a woman or man) markedly or aggressively masculine

    — n
    2. a lesbian who is noticeably masculine
    3. a strong rugged man

    Hmmm. Isn't it interesting that you call yourself something that translates to MALE

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  73. You're making a lot of assumptions. Why do you assume I'm butch, for example? Why do you assume it's definitions that intrigue me?

    Why does anyone think they need to be the sex other than the one they were born in, other than conformity to societal norms? You still haven't answered this. You're avoiding the question.

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  74. "Also, you consider top surgery for an FTM "mutilation", but what about women who are addicted to plastic surgery? Do you consider that "mutilation" as well?"

    Haha, what a fucking stupid question.

    "I don't think anybody who makes videos about "transitioning" (or anything else)on the internet should whine about their picture being used, especially in a discussion about that topic."

    I know right?

    I am glad you have this blog dirt, I have learned many things about loving my butch mothers, sisters and daughters (older, peers, and younger butch womyn) and to appreciate my own female-ness a lot more. You are an A Mazing Amazon dirt, the folks in here bagging you out are just pissed cos you're not saying what they want to hear.

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  75. Late Night LOLZ
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e01-mr-garrisons-fancy-new-vagina

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  76. "I think this blog is hilarious and great entertainment because you are so full of bullshit."

    No you are! You are just here to express your hate because you don't like what you read here. Why you don't like it? Because in this blog there are many things which are true. You don't even critizise you're just trolling around.

    By the way sorry dirt I thought it was your insane journal.

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  77. Anon @ 8:58:
    "If some people believe they'd be happier with a body more like that of the opposite sex, and do something about it, that's one thing. When they start promoting the idea that every thought, feeling, preference and behavior that doesn't conform to gendered social expectations is "cross gender," or "gender variant," or "transgender," then my BS meter goes off. And I have seen those views on a lot of trans sites."

    I tend to agree. The problem is that we've fallen into a trap: most people don't believe us when we say our body doesn't match up, so we start presenting what we think will be convincing corroborating evidence, without realizing how ridiculous it sounds to people who aren't trans but don't conform to stereotypes.

    And then the "genderqueers" with their insistence that anybody who doesn't conform to stereotypes is one of them...it's more than a little exasperating to have to explain over and over that butches and effeminate men are just normal variants of women and men, not trans or gender-bending or whatever, and that wanting to do stuff that's stereotypically assigned to the other gender doesn't make you gender-variant, it makes you human.

    I'm trans because I feel I'm a man who should be male. Do I fit with some of the stereotypes of men? Sure, but I don't know how much of that is innate preference and how much is learned from seeing other guys and identifying with them. It really doesn't matter. Liking comfortable clothes and working with my hands doesn't make me a man - if I didn't feel like my body was wrong, I'd just be a woman who liked comfortable clothes and working with my hands. My dad made sure I knew that being a girl didn't have to restrict me. It didn't. I'm just not one.

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  78. Dirt, I just want to say that I appreciate your blog so much. Your methods may be controversial , but what you say is so damn important.

    Surgery and hormones will never fix problems that were created by the patriarchy in the first place!

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  79. Thank you much to all of you commented, Open Day is officially closed.

    Hope you all have a fab weekend!

    dirt

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  80. I'm an FTM and I personally love women. They make yummy food.

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  81. Have you seen this response to your blog?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mvjneUu7E&feature=related

    ReplyDelete

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