Wednesday, June 2, 2010

ftM reinforces binary and other comments

A comment from an ftM I received last night.

Some ftM googles, as you can see "ftm ladies man" (as if) and doesn't like what they find when they get my blog. The shear misogyny in these comments is both frightening and loathsome and quite clear why this person trannified to begin with. This person hates women, lesbians and especially Butch lesbians as their comments indicate. Their stressing their "hetero-ness" indicates like most ftMYSOGINIST that their natural lesbianism along with their femaleness has to been altered with injection after injection of "T". I would wager this person has/is soliciting bio male sex partners on the sly from gay personals/craigs list. I would also wager their Butch hatred stems from their being a tweener dyke like most ftMISOGYNYST were, and like the tweeners who trannify they are jealous of Butch butchness as well as the beautiful Femmes who desire us. Foolishly soooooo many of these sad and confused tweener lesbians believe through "T" they can attain some measure of Butch-hood, but as we know and they prove, Butches are born of our mothers, not of a needle.

But I dont post this to simply dismantle this individual ftMISOGYNYST's character, but to illustrate just what us Butches, both young, middle aged and older are dealing with. This is sadly the climate Butch women are currently having to navigate within our own Femme-Butch communities, both online and off. The very thing (our femaleness) that makes us the Butch women that we are and the butchness that we love and take pride in is being threatened in our very own communities, by those claiming to "know", "understand" and "support" us!!!! There is NOTHING more unique and beautiful than a Butch woman, in mind, body and spirit!

Especially those over 35 Butch women who have walked across fire for the entirety of their lives, and to see finally them make it across, placing one foot into the cool sand, then another, then the beautiful peacefulness that spreads across their being. Peaceful because they finally understand and appreciate their unique butch qualities, qualities that lie solely in the female mind as well as the supreme female body! This is why if you are a Butch or love a Butch it is essential to speak out whenever Butch is assumed, claimed, ID'd as anything but female/woman! Our butchness is no more male than the pussy that lies between our legs, it is like our pussy's, uniquely female and uniquely powerful, it informs our walk, our talk, our swagger, our energy and their aint NOTHING male or manly about it! 

dirt-a couldnt be prouder if I tried Butch Woman!

ps another comment I found interesting and equally revealing regarding our Femme-Butch spaces:

ftMYSOGYNIST continue utilizing our identities and our spaces because underneath the hairy body and bald head, they are what they began as, scared little girls who know as well as the rest of us, the patriarchal world is no place for women.

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  1. I don't care how these people identify, or whether they transition, but if they expect anyone to respect their identities, they ought to respect butch women's identities.

    Trying to equate butchness with maleness is demeaning to the whole lesbian community. It redefines those who are butch as men, when they are women. It redefines those who are attracted to butches as straights, when we are lesbians. I know who I am and I'm not going to let anyone take that away from me.


  2. Mary:

    I wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph. I also agree that "[t]rying to equate butchness with maleness is demeaning to the whole lesbian community." However, I still don't understand how FTMs identifying themselves as men "equates butchness with maleness."

    Also, I wonder whether you, Dirt or some of the others who've posted and commented on this blog have ever considered this: Many FTMs live as butches--and identify as such--before transitioning because it took them time to realize they were trans men. Or, they may have realized it but realized what a huge (and, for some, terrifying) step it is to make the transition. By the same token, any number of MTFs lived as gay men--or as men, period--for the same reason. And, of course, for an MTF, there is that added complication of giving up the privilege they enjoyed as males.

  3. Bookbabe,

    I was thinking of the hostility of the anonymous trans man Dirt quotes:

    "Then there are those so called older butches who never transitioned."

    Perhaps because they are women? And happy as women?

    "There is a FEAR that lesbians have with REAL male energy. Not FAKE or acting out temporary male energy like a butch. In other words 'playing a role' instead of committing to something that is REAL in your self."

    Again, anonymous 3:14 is saying that butchness is an imitation of maleness, instead of recognizing that butchness is itself and doesn't have to imitate anything. The word that comes to mind is "ungendering."

  4. And taking a drug and imitating and aping the worst of bio-males and their misogyny and cutting off body parts isn't taking on a role?

    Every true Butch I know, myself included, was that way from a very young age, very hardcore or intense tomboys, to grow up to be REAL Butches, as well as REAL women who don't have to hide behind shots, hormones, or surgeries to be their REAL selves.

    Yes, the FTM movement and trans movement as a WHOLE is incredibly misogynist, and they just want to erase Butches altogether. Those handsome older Butches are survivors, and have had the integrity, the strength, the power, the machisma or whatever you want to call it to be TRUE to themselves, to stay Female and Lesbian and proud all the days of their lives..not to hide behind male veils to express their misogyny and to imitate men to attempt to have their power at the expense of Dykes, Butches, and frankly ALL WOMEN! Those Butches are true Warriors and have led the way for so many of us, and some of those Butches ARE us! Thank Goddess for their very Female and STrong bodies, minds and spirits!

  5. Slightly puzzled as to why this blog focuses on your own opinions of transmen, when it claims to be discussing the 'many issues facing Femme/Butch lesbians.'
    Wouldn't it be more proactive to put your energy into the celebration and beauty of your own identity, rather than attacking an identity of which you cannot relate to?

  6. This'll sound controversial perhaps, but being butch myself I don't mind trans men in the slightest. I even dated one for a while and he was nice, if somewhat immature. They are what they are, just as I am what I am, and their self-expression can only undermine me if I am insecure enough to let it.

    Saying that straight trans men undermine butch/femme relationships is as daft as when some feminists used to say that butch/femme relationships validated homophobia by parodying heterosexuality. It's all needless.

    If men are the main topic of interest on a blog devoted to butch identity then clearly you need to get out more.

  7. J,

    Clearly this blog is about fighting misogyny and the patriarchal regimes that create and support misogyny.

    And the writings here that are primarily about Butch(Femme) deal with Butch and not butch.

    Education is not the enemy.


  8. With all due respect Ms Dirt, I don't see much education here. Just baseless opinions and bitter feelings it seems and maybe an over analytical interpretation of what the Ftm wrote. Being Ftm is not in and of itself a direspect to a butch woman's identity. Nor is it a person trying to equate butchness with maleness. Being an Ftm myself, I dont go out and think to myself, " How many butch lesbians can I offend today?"
    In fact, the butch/femme classification never crosses my mind quite honestly. I dont see the world in terms of butch or femme, or masculine and feminine, I should say. So I guess my point is, I don't see it, therefore I dont compare my personal identity with it.

    Anonymous 10:35 quoted the FTM in response to bookbabe:

    FTM-"Then there are those so called older butches who never transitioned."

    Anon's response-Perhaps because they are women? And happy as women?

    The fact of the matter is, there ARE butch women who inwardly identify as trans. And notice how the Ftm didn't say "all"? We are not ignorant on the fact that ALL butch women must secretly identify as trans because we know its not true!It is ignorant to say and assume rather, that those women ARE happy in their identity as a woman. However, as I was saying, there are Butch women who do identify as trans, but for some reason out of fear (for losing their families, partners, jobs or friends with attitudes such as yours toward the whole idea) they never openly identify. There are alot of miserable Butch women out there who really arent butch women..simply because they don't feel as if they can be themselves without significant resistance. And for some, one "coming out" was more than enough in terms of the stress and circumstances that arose from it.

    Also, I'm quite inclined to ask in reference to MasterAmazon's first statement, how she(I'm going to assume is a she, and by this statement I mean no disrespect)defines the "worst of bio males"?

    And also in regard to MasterAmazon's post:
    "Yes, the FTM movement and trans movement as a WHOLE is incredibly misogynist, and they just want to erase Butches altogether."

    Just as the gay and lesbian movement has no "agenda", neither does the trans movement, especially in "erasing butches altogether". That statement is completely absurd.

    There are things in life that you as an individual CANNOT change such as another person's choices, the weather..etc. And then there are the things you CAN change i.e. your own choices and how you respond to the things you cannot change.

    Such as you didn't let the world define you, let the world define itself also. Would you not be unjustly labelled had your parents forced "straightness' on you and you were expected to live up to that expectation or label for the rest of your life? Even if they had, you had and took the opportunity to define your own person, soul, heart, and mind.

    Thats what we are ALL after. A chance to speak for OURSELVES..

  9. Ha. The lady protest way too much. You display your insecurity so completely that there is no interpretation required, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway. It's perverse, but I like to confront discomfort. I'm thinking you will only truly be free of the neurosis that caused you to write this insecure diatribe when you finally admit what really triggers you about ftm's.

    Perhaps you are reacting to the fact that many, many femmes have fallen in love with the bodies and minds of ftm's, fully and completely. Maybe what rankles you is seeing people be self-determined. I'm thinking the scariest thing of all for you to confront is that so many ftm's are actualized, self-loving, empowered, embodied, powerful, and complete. Ftm's are living-out-loud, artists, social workers, activists, lawyers, health care workers, passionate, loving, articulate, engaged citizens working towards freedom for all people to be self-determined.
    I'm sorry that the world has left you behind in your binary-interpretation of gender (and yes, yours is the binary one). And I'm sorry that so many femmes and butches have left your ranks to love us or realize that they *are* us. I'm saddened that there is a need for "ranks" in the first place.
    I embrace your butchness completely and I know that it's a really hard road in this world sometimes for butches. It's not a cakewalk for ftm's either.
    When you find it in your heart to be honest with yourself about what triggers you about ftm's, and can admit that it comes from a very small, scared place, you will be able to truly accept your butchness. And then you will be able to accept ftm's. And then you will no longer feel the need for these declarative statements about how much you love yourself. Shoot, nobody I know that loves themselves as much as you claim to would ever waste their energy ranting like you do about some other group of people they don't even know. Get a grip, stop letting the world into the process of you "accepting" your gender so violently. And if this comment makes you feel threatened, pay attention to that discomfort. That's the way the world will heal.

  10. Protesting is what you doing here, I merely set the records straight. And with regard to who is transitioning, it isnt and hasnt been Butch women, only a very small portion have. The majority of women who transition are tweener dykes who struggle to attain a butchness, only to attain mere masculinity. And Femme's are lesbians, they do not date men or "men" of any flavour.


  11. I am so glad I found this blog. I have felt this way for such a long time and wondered where the butch women were that agreed with me.

    I a proud butch woman am discusted by the FTMs buy in to the straight community. Yes, most of them have lived as butches...but...they couldn't handle the hate and stares that come from the hetero society in general, so they surgically and hormonally alter their bodies to become a part of the majority. To "fit it" per say. (Yet they still want be considered part of the LGB community).

    They can't take the heat, they are not strong enough, their skin not thick enough (even though they disguised themselves as "tough men") So they conform. Easy way out. Anyone can put on a costume. It's the people who stand proud of who they were born as...who they were born to be...that have the real strength.

    I agree it is very demeaning to the lesbian community. Stand proud butch women...we are the strong ones. And thank you to the person brave enough to start this blog!

  12. I love your blog.
    But, sorry to crash your party, I'm ftm and gay. So I can't agree with everything...
    Sorry to disappoint, but I really like that you're putting this out there and finding other people with the same oppinions. :)
    I hope you don't delete this comment just because I'm one of the people you say you hate. :)

  13. I am FtM and am in no way a butch lesbian. I'm pansexual and I identify as male. I'm not against butch lesbians; I really don't care what other people do with their lives. Transsexuals are not butch lesbians hiding behind shots of testosterone, but are males born into female bodies. A FtM transsexual can be gay, as in interested solely in cismales (and/or other transmen), bisexual, pansexual, or straight (as in interested in cisfemales and/or transwomen).

    You are butch and I am FtM. I don't label myself as a lesbian, because I'm not. As I said earlier, I'm a pansexual FtM. I'm not hiding some secret identity behind testosterone and binders; I'm making myself feel comfortable with my body and making it congruent with how I feel inside.

    I respect that you are butch, and I'd really appreciate it if you'd respect that I am FtM and this is a real identity, not a sham or a mask.

  14. Hi
    i really wonder how lgbt community still have the belief that making a process like TS´s or IS´s do, it´s a kind of sexual orientation, or maybe some kind of identity.
    Most of your problems with TS´s (being butches, homo, bi or whatever you feel) came from your outdated knowledge of sexual identity/orientation criteria.

    oh, indeed...every MtF i knew never experienced that "male privilege" you mentioned above.

    good night 2 u all.